Anyone have an end game build for a Wisdom based DC caster FVS, focusing on CC/insta kills and some healing?
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Anyone have an end game build for a Wisdom based DC caster FVS, focusing on CC/insta kills and some healing?
Hi, I have a long-term project to do something similar with a Death Domain Cleric (+4 Necro DCs and Destruction SLA). AoV capstone provides +2 DCs for all spells which is nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abilbo
Divine Casters have limited options:
CC
- Soundblast is great at low levels, but as a lvl 2 spell with a SP save, it would be expensive to run at end game
- Cometfall [lvl 6] SLA from AoV is great for later heroics but the knockdown portion is reflex based
- Celestial Bombardment can knockdown and has three successive reflex saves
EDIT + Holy Smite* for Blindness!
The only* one of the above that renders enemies helpless [extra damage] is the Soundblast stun (6 second duration).
Outside FvS
- Greater Color Spray SLA (Illusion DC)
- Falconry dive attacks (Assassinate DC) which are Wisdom-based
- FYI, Cleric Divine Disciple 5th Core gets you the lvl 8 Sunburst spell (as does the Sun Domain but they share a CD) but I think they have a long-ish 20 second CD.
Feydark Illusionist also provides +3 Spell Penetration at tier 3 for 3AP, and at tier 4 you can get an option to apply 3 stacks of shattermantle (-9 SR) by either using Shadow spells or hitting monsters with Shadow imbued weapons.
A Falconry splash can get you 3 dive attacks, all adding Helpless damage, and the third attack (tier 3) is an AoE.
INSTAKILLS
- Slay Living (lvl 5) is a Necromancy spell with Fortitude save; again at end game you would need both Heighten and Embolden and it will become expensive (cost doubled)
- Undeath to Death (lvl 6) is an AoE; light and fire evocation spells are probably better
- Destruction lvl 7 Necromancy spell
- Implosion lvl 9 Evocation multi-target spell
GENERAL BUILD APPROACH
Basics off the top of my head (I may miss something)
- Aasimar and Human past lives give +2 Wisdom
- FvS and Wizard past lives give +9 SP
- Sorcerer Past Lives for +3 Evocation DCs
- Epic Reincarnation option for +3 SP
- Aasimar, Dragonborn and Elf Racial Trees for Arcanum; 6 AP for +3 SP and +100 spell points
- Feydark Illusionist tier 3 for +3 SP
- Legendary Item farming for SP and relevant DCs
- Crafting
- Aasimar and Deep Gnome for 20 starting Wisdom and the extra +2 from cores
Schools
- Necromancy for Destruction and Implosion; 2 heroic feats + Epic feat to increase DCs
- Illusion option if Deep Gnome with a +1 lesser HoW for the extra +3 Illusion DCs and the PK SLA
- Evocation for certain CC spells as mentioned above
The problem is that you can't go for everything with only 7 heroic feats. Max your Wisdom, your SP and one school.
Note on sources of temporary SR
- as mentioned above, Feydark Illusionist tier 4 ability to apply 3 stack of Shattermantle (-9 SR) to enemies
- AoV tier 5 ability Unstoppable Magic for -3 SR via Core 3 Aura of Menace; I don't know the range of the aura but I'm guessing you would need to get down and dirty with the mobs!
My Idea for a Cleric Instakill CC Healer:
- Death Domain (+4 Necro DCs, the excellent Destruction SLA and Immunity to Energy Drain!!!)
- 3 FvS, Sorc and Wiz past lives
- Divine Disciple for +2 DCs (Evo or Necro), +4 Wisdom, Holy Smite SLA (oops forgot this cc spell) and Sunburst from Core 5
- Aasimar (20+2 Wis and Arcanum)... 12 AP for Arcanum
- Feydark Illusionist 13 AP for +2 WIS and +3 SP
- Rest of available AP into Falconry (unless I decide on the FI route)
- Heroic Feats: Quicken, Heighten, SF/GSF Necro, Wiz Past Life Feat, both SP feats
- Epic Feats: Epic SP, Arcane Insight, Embolden, Epic Spell Focus Necro
- Destiny Feats: Fount of Life and whatever
- Legendary: leaning towards Celestia for the extra 150 health but maybe for min/max Shadowfell?
DESTINIES
As a Wisdom based build, I think that there are 2 viable alternatives; boost healing via Exalted Angel, or go full out for Instakills and take tier 5 in Primal Avater for Mass Frog! A potentially useful splash would be Shadowdancer for +3 SP at tier 3.
I hope you do pursue this and would be really happy if you would post some feedback later... gl and hf!
EDIT A final note on Divine Disciple build: levelling use the fabulous Death Domain SLA Necrotic Ray; at 1d6+12 Negative Damage per caster level (up to level 25) it is really good against Reapers and Champions especially at lower levels. For levelling I also go a mixture of Light Side DD so I take the all the Universal Spell Power (+27) and also the two DCs at tiers 4 and 5. Not sure when to switch to instakills; depends on what gear (sets) you have in the bank. At level 15, the Flamecleansed set is a good all-rounder (especially for FvS). At level 29, 7 items from the Eminence of Autumn is my objective along with a Legendary Prince's Sceptre.
EDIT2: changed Implosion School to Evocation.
My build is a bit odd. I want to be able to raid heal decently well (Heal, Heal SLA, Healing Wall, Healing Hands and EA Mantle) without going 17 fvs / 3 pal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abilbo
So, 20 FvS Aasimar, wisdom based.
T5 i BoA for heal sla and healing wall.
Capstone in AoV for +2dc etc.
Some points in Falconry for run speed boost.
Points in Aasimar ofc (I am racial compl).
EDs:
T5 in Primal for Mass Frog (I really like Mass Frog).
T4 in EA - most mantle for healing.
T3 in Shadow (-10 cooldown, ddoor etc)
At level 32 (depending on cost to get to Core 4) I think it will be 36 points in Primal, 22 points in EA and 15 points in Shadow (total 73) with DC from T3s in Necro, Evoc and Trans.
At level 30 (or with fewer points to spent) reduce a bit in EA and Shadown.
Add in some light damage spells for a little nuking.
Feats:
SF Necro
GSF Necro
Max
Quick
Enlarge (Make sure to enlarge Slay Living making it useful)
Compl
Wiz PL
ESF Necro
Wellspring [or Heighten for more DC but less nuking]
Embolden
Arcane Insight
Scion with +4 necro or +4 fire evoc depending on preference.
The 3 spell SF feats open up for taking the +3 other DC feat in Leg levels if that remains as is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnominal_Aphasia
Evocation is the school for fvs.
Implosion wasn t evocation????
Mass frog is trasmutation?
U need all maxed if u want death spell land in legendary reaper
Missed the Implosion school error... thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alled78
OP requested build for FvS instakill / cc / healer.
Does anyone really specialize in Transmutation DCs (SF and GSF Feats) for Mass Frog?
I'm late to the thread, but Greater Command needs to be on that list. Many mobs have much lower Will saves than Reflex or Fort, and it lasts longer, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnominal_Aphasia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnominal_Aphasia
CC options:Quote:
Originally Posted by kpak01
* Cause Fear - single-target lvl 1 will-save necro CC. Fear effect so useless against fear-immune monsters.
* Command - single-target lvl 1 will-save enchantment CC. Useless against creatures immune to enchantment.
* Hold Peron - single-target lvl 2 will-save enchantment CC. Useless against creatures immune to paralysis/have FoM as well as non-humanoids.
* Soundburst - AoE lvl 2 fort-save evocation CC. Useless against creatures immune to stuns.
* Blindness - single-target lvl 3 will-save necro CC. Useless against creatures that are immune to blindness.
* Contagion - single-target lvl 3 fort-save necro spell. Multiselector in which one is a blindness CC spells. Blindness will reapply on a failed save against disease. Disease check every minute with two consecutive saves to completely cure. Useless against creatures that are immune to blindness or immune to diseases.
* Chaos Hammer - AoE lvl 4 will-save evocation CC + damage. Slows Lawful creatures. Useless against Chaotic creatures. Cannot cast if Lawful.
* Holy Smite - AoE lvl 4 will-save evocation CC + damage. Blinds Evil creatures. Useless against Good creatures. Cannot cast if Evil (currently impossible).
* Order's Wrath - AoE lvl 4 will-save evocation CC + damage. Dazes Chaotic creatures (damage doesn't break daze). Useless against Lawful creatures. Cannot cast if Chaotic.
* Greater Command - AoE lvl 5 will-save enchantment CC. Duration is longer than Command Useless against creatures immune to enchantment.
* Cometfall - AoE lvl 6 reflex-save conjuration CC. Knocks creatures down.
* Symbol of Persuasion - AoE lvl 6 will-save enchantment CC. Monsters have to get close to the symbol to activate and trap lasts 20 seconds after activation. Useless against monsters immune to enchantment.
* Symbol of Fear - AoE lvl 6 will-save necro CC. Monsters have to get close to the symbol to activate and trap lasts 20 seconds after activation. Useless against monsters immune to fear.
* Celestial Bombardment - AoE lvl 9 reflex-save evocation CC + damage. 3 consecutive saves against knockdown.
Of these, I find Soundburst, Chaos Hammer, Holy Smite, Order's Wrath, G. Command, Cometfall, and Celestial Bombardment to be the best.
Instakill options:
* Dismissal - single-target lvl 4 will-save abjuration instakill vs extraplanar creatures (DC is weird because it works off of hit dice).
* Slay Living - single-target lvl 5 fort-save instakill vs living creatures. Touch range.
* Banishment - AoE lvl 6 will-save abjuration instakill vs extraplanar creatures (DC is weird because it works off of hit dice).
* Undeath to Death - AoE lvl 6 will-save instakill vs undead.
* Destruction - single-target lvl 7 fort-save instakill vs living creatures.
* Implosion - AoE lvl 9 fort-save instakill vs corporeal creatures. Summons an aura around the caster that ticks three times killing up to two creatures each tick.
Of these, I find Undeath to Death, Destruction, and Implosion to be the best.
Universal tree considerations:
* Feydark Illusionist - gives G. Colorspray as AoE Illusion CC SLA
* Falconry - gives 2 single-target assassination CC attacks that induce helplessness, 1 AoE assassination CC attack that blind, and 1 single-target assassination instakill. Reflex save on CC and fort save on instakill.
Racial tree considerations:
* Deep Gnome - gives G. Colorspray as will-save Illusion CC SLA and PK as Illusion instakill SLA (INT for both).
* Gnome - gives G. Colorspray and Symbol of Stunning as will-save AoE Illusion CC SLAs (Symbol requires dragonmark; INT for both).
* Morninglord - gives Sunburst SLA as a reflex-save AoE evocation blind CC (can instakill creatures that fear the light or die upon being blinded; WIS).
* Shifter - gives Howl of Terror as a will-save AoE enchantment CC SLA centered around self (WIS).
Destiny considerations:
* MotE: provides Time Stop at T5, which is a guaranteed CC on anything around you that isn't a boss (bosses instead are helpless). Can upgrade Moonlight SLA multiselector to slow creatures in the zone. Can upgrade MotE epic strike to freeze or paralyze a living creature at T4.
* PA: provides Mass Frog at T5 as AoE Transmutation instakill. 6 monsters per cast. T5 sky or thorn form can knock down or confuse monsters next to you respectively. Storm Catcher epic strike can slow down one target based off of reflex save vs evocation. Thunder Snow spell can upgrade to gain the slow of the Storm Catcher epic strike but as an AoE.
* SD: provides Weird spell at T5 as AoE Illusion instakill (PK mass; will and then fort save to kill). 6 monsters per cast. Works on anything PK will.
* GMoF: provides EiN at T5 as AoE instakill + CC. 6 monsters per cast. Works on everything that isn't a boss. Do not actually have to be centered to use, although you do need to bring up your ki with something like Inner Focus. Also provides AoE epic strike multiselector that you can upgrade to a stun at T4.
* Fatesinger: provides Cut the Strings at T5 as AoE enchantment CC + instakill. Works on anything that isn't a boss. Can pick up G. Shout at T4 as an AoE evocation CC + damage, which currently has no save. Can also pick up a T2 evocation AoE that stuns monsters after using the Fatesinger epic strike.
* SC: provides Fey Chaos at T5 as an AoE confusion with no save. Can get a paralysis effect at T5 while using Prism mantle. Prism mantle can also blind, slow, curse, or silence based on the modification you pick. Can gain AoE Illusion/Enchantment epic strike that you can upgrade to work on pretty much anything except bosses at T3 and stun them at T4. Can get an enchantment charm SLA at T2.
* DC: provides consecration epic strike that can be improved to AoE cower effect at T4. The description is wrong and actually currently affects anything but bosses.
* EA: provides the Pillar epic strike multiselector that can be improved to single-target evocation/conjuration CC that blinds, trips, and makes helpless. Can also get Stand or Be Judged as a T2 ability that dazes without save (breaks on damage) and which you can upgrade at T4 to stun with evocation/conjuration bonuses.
* US: provides the shield throw which you can upgrade at T4 to stun monsters in AoE. The ability does not currently have a save which does not seem to be WAI according to the description. Stun only works on creatures that are normally susceptible to stuns.
There are also some CC from LD and FotW, but because those actually require you to hit your target physically, that would probably be a bit more difficult on a caster. For DI, the encasement in gold is too rare to count on for CC imo. In any case, I prefer Fatesinger and then SC for CC and instakills (there're no instakills in SC though). MotE doesn't really have a lot of synergy with a FvS. PA mass frog is really nice, but considering that transmutation is not really supported on a FvS, it'll be harder to land the frogs imo. Same problem with SD. GMoF is nice but unless you're gonna stay centered it can get annoying to prep up the EiN (although I have to consult my notes to see if Orchid Blossom works while uncentered), plus, without knowing if using those abilities while uncentered is WAI, you start getting into some dangerous territory for build design. DC consecration is not WAI in accordance with its description, and neither is US, so I'd avoid basing a build around those abilities (or do and then switch later I guess). EA's only problem is that its CC is single-target. That said, it is a great destiny for healing and damage.
Fatesinger offers threat reduction; spell cost reduction, which helps with the spell point issue Gnominal mentioned before; spell pen, +2 to your casting ability score; G. Shout, which is not WAI now but even when they fix it, it should work well if you go Evocation-specced; A free meta; and Cut the Strings, which bypasses SR, is will-save, and can make any non-boss dance (and you kill them while they are dancing).
SC offers a better version of Colorspray, one that works with enchantment and so has more synergy with FvS than your normal Colorspray would. That said, If you went up T5 in Fatesinger and T4 in SC, that wouldn't leave a whole lot of points and your damage would drop, so it might be better to go into DI or PA for damage or maybe US for some better survivability and healing (Renewal is the GOAT).
As for races, I personally prefer Shifter for the Howl and higher WIS, in addition to the bonus to saves and debuff to monsters saves (note that the debuff, similar to the Howl of Terror, is centered on self).
As such, the way I'd go about making such a FvS is:
20 FvS Shifter Evocation and Enchantment specced.
41 points in AoV (extra damage is always good, plus an effective +4 to DCs is too good to give up)
23 points in Falconry (3 reflex CC attacks that are WIS-based)
16 in Shifter (WIS, rage regen, casting while rage, saves + saves debuff, Howl SLA)
Obviously the more racial points the better.
For spells, Celestial Bombardment, Greater Command, Holy Smite, Chaos Hammer, Order's Wrath, Soundburst are good for CC. I'm honestly not sure your build would need instakills, because unlike a cleric, FvS only can only go to the trainer to swap spells and they have much less spells they can have at a time. Because of this lack of versatility from being unable to swap at a shrine, you want to pick spells that are more useful for the general case. For example, a pure FvS only has 3 lvl 9 spells, and if I had to pick between them, I'd go for Celestial Bombardment, Divine Wrath, and True Res (unless in HC). Lvl 7 spells would be mass FoM, Greater Restoration, and then maybe Destruction of Protection Mass. For lvl 6 spells you'd want to at least have the Heal spell for an oh **** moment. In any case, I'm not sure you'd have the spell slots to do damage and instakills and CC, and your rotation might not even allow it anyways, so I usually settle for damage and then CC and then instakills in that order, because in general there are more things susceptible to damage, than susceptible to CC, than susceptible to instakills.
Then I'd probably go up Fatesinger and PA with a splash in US for Renewal if going a little more CC/instakill route and sub in EA for Fatesinger and maybe SC for PA if I'm trying to do more damage. Hope this helps.
I am working on a guide to the one I built and play in groups doing R8 to R10. Solo, I haven't really pushed it to see how far above R4 I can do. I am writing the guide now, and have video that I am editing. I hope to have something posted in the next couple days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abilbo
Looking forward to this!!Quote:
Originally Posted by cmecu
I'm playing a wis based FVS and hoping to get some advice on how to get my DC's up a bit. I'm currently a 106 evo dc in reaper (99 outside). Wis is 89 in reaper (85 outside). How do i stretch this a bit? Destruction/soundburst/greater command landing occasionally on R10 newer content. What is a good DC and how do you get there?
106 evo is plenty.. that is right where mine is at give or take a couple points. I think what I am going to do is just get the build down put on here, and gear.. But I have been also writing why I take certain things. Anyone can say oh take this feat, take that feat.. but they never explain why. I am trying to elaborate on why I take what I taken..Quote:
Originally Posted by Blessedwynd
Its just a lot to write about. Plus I am working on a video to see it in action. Because once again, anyone can write a build up, but how does it play? Lets see it in action :D Im not a video editor, and my guild leader Voodu , using Movie Maker which is a older out of date no longer supported video editor that is simple and easy to use. I am like him, I like simple and easy. I dont need to make my videos all fancy with fade in and ours, things exploding, and animation on top of a video etc... just simple stuff, and my audio commenting on what your seeing.
I will have it up sometime this weekend :D