Automatic Inquisition

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05-01-2019, 08:54 AM
droid327

Automatic Inquisition

How about another option for the Inquisition Style enhancement that allows you to use RXBs in dual style?

- RXBs still get reduced Doubleshot
- RXBs still require an Exotic prof
- RXBs are not overpowered DPS wise and are even more obsolete in endgame compared to DXB now

DXB is already higher ROF than RXB at moderate levels of DS, even though ROF is supposed to be RXB's defining characteristic, so this would be restoring the balance. I think this would be a bit of a boon for Arti Inquis and Mech Rogues too since they kinda lost a lot of their unique rolespace to the Universal tree, since they get the profs auto-granted.
05-01-2019, 07:59 PM
SiliconScout
Quote:

Originally Posted by droid327

How about another option for the Inquisition Style enhancement that allows you to use RXBs in dual style?

- RXBs still get reduced Doubleshot
- RXBs still require an Exotic prof
- RXBs are not overpowered DPS wise and are even more obsolete in endgame compared to DXB now

DXB is already higher ROF than RXB at moderate levels of DS, even though ROF is supposed to be RXB's defining characteristic, so this would be restoring the balance. I think this would be a bit of a boon for Arti Inquis and Mech Rogues too since they kinda lost a lot of their unique rolespace to the Universal tree, since they get the profs auto-granted.

What, pray tell, is a DXB?
- Crossbow
- Great Crossbow
- Heavy Crossbow
- Heavy Repeating Crossbow
- Light Repeating Crossbow
- Light Crossbow
Don't see any of those types starting with a D, or are you referring to the Hand Crossbows that the Inquisitor turns normal bows into??
05-01-2019, 08:04 PM
voxson5

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiliconScout

What, pray tell, is a DXB?

I think it is Double
05-01-2019, 08:36 PM
GeoffWatson

Dual Crossbows may be a little better than Repeaters (with high Doubleshot), but your idea of doubling the repeaters would be way too much.
05-02-2019, 09:36 AM
droid327

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffWatson

Dual Crossbows may be a little better than Repeaters (with high Doubleshot), but your idea of doubling the repeaters would be way too much.

I know it feels that way prima facie but I dont think it actually would be, if you break down how it would work...

- DXB comes with an inherent ROF penalty: its not straight doubling your ROF, its only about 1.5x
- RXB still has the DS penalty, so that would decrease the actual ROF difference between dual RXB and dual XB with endgame levels of DS
- RXB still requires an exotic prof, while DXB only requires 4 AP. And Dual RXB would further require 21 AP, and giving up 5% DS.
- RXB wouldnt get +1/+1 crit profile from the Inqui core, meaning you'd still need to find that elsewhere - and there's only a very few ways to do that, and even fewer that dont require a T5.
- Named RXBs tend to be designed with high ROF in mind, so they dont get affixes that would be OP at really high ROF

While Dual RXB would be more powerful than Dual XB base, of course, I think it would be in line with the opportunity cost involved, and not game-breakingly OP.

Hell, typing all this out I've almost convinced myself I might not take it over DXB even if it was added :D
05-02-2019, 09:54 AM
banjo174

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffWatson

Dual Crossbows may be a little better than Repeaters (with high Doubleshot), but your idea of doubling the repeaters would be way too much.

A little better? Dual Crossbows are outrageously better. There aren't even decent named heavy crossbows in the game yet... Just wait once they add some with sharn.
05-02-2019, 11:11 AM
edgarallanpoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by banjo174

A little better? Dual Crossbows are outrageously better. There aren't even decent named heavy crossbows in the game yet... Just wait once they add some with sharn.

Correction...there *are* decent ones. There just aren't any really strong ones. LGS, TF, even the event xbow is decent. Heck, I am walking around with a level 21 Cannith crafted Xbow that has 5 Good 5 Bludg and Vamp that does the trick. At level 24 I got TF with the blindness proc...which is ok, nothing great but still gets the job done quite well.

I do have an issue with the event xbow though. My problem is that it isn't useful after the min level to use it at level 20. It does 4 bleed and 4 impact damage. At level 21 you get 5. The event xbow should have 5 at level 20 to make it more useful. Is it a big deal? No. But it just doesn't make any sense to use.

They should look like this...

Level 20 - 5 bleed 5 impact
Level 25 - 6 bleed 6 impact
level 30 - 7 bleed 7 impact

This will make them, at least, marginally useful. As it stands now they just make no sense to me.
05-02-2019, 11:20 AM
banjo174

Quote:

Originally Posted by edgarallanpoe

Correction...there *are* decent ones. There just aren't any really strong ones. LGS, TF, even the event xbow is decent. Heck, I am walking around with a level 21 Cannith crafted Xbow that has 5 Good 5 Bludg and Vamp that does the trick. At level 24 I got TF with the blindness proc...which is ok, nothing great but still gets the job done quite well.

I do have an issue with the event xbow though. My problem is that it isn't useful after the min level to use it at level 20. It does 4 bleed and 4 impact damage. At level 21 you get 5. The event xbow should have 5 at level 20 to make it more useful. Is it a big deal? No. But it just doesn't make any sense to use.

They should look like this...

Level 20 - 5 bleed 5 impact
Level 25 - 6 bleed 6 impact
level 30 - 7 bleed 7 impact

This will make them, at least, marginally useful. As it stands now they just make no sense to me.

Bleed is just a useless weapon damage stat. As anything that doesn't have blood can't bleed. Might as well use a cannith crafted weapon. Even the level 5 version of the event crossbow is worthless, when compared to https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Swift_Demise . . .

What I was trying to get at, was that there are no good named crossbows in the epic level range, especially at level cap. You would be better off using thunderforged or LGS at level cap... Im really looking at the ONLY level 20 epic heavy crossbow, https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Storm . . . A truly worthless item, cannith is better than this trash.
05-02-2019, 12:19 PM
Alrik_Fassbauer

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiliconScout

What, pray tell, is a DXB?

A DOSBOX, maybe ? ;)
05-02-2019, 12:29 PM
droid327

Quote:

Originally Posted by edgarallanpoe

The event xbow should have 5 at level 20 to make it more useful. Is it a big deal? No. But it just doesn't make any sense to use.

Event items have been deliberately put on the same progression curve as Cannith crafting, specifically because they dont want it to be stat-flated relative to crafted items.

Now does it make sense to have an increased die step at 21 instead of 20? Probably not, you could make an argument that EVERYTHING should be bumped to the higher die at 20 :) But there's a clear and consistent reason why the event xbow isnt.
05-02-2019, 12:32 PM
Memnir

I think the restriction makes sense. It gives some other weapon types a chance to shine, in this case non-repeaters, and the game needs more of that. Most weapon usage was reduced to very narrow field for far too long. I'm glad the Devs are opening it up some.
05-02-2019, 12:44 PM
edgarallanpoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by droid327

Event items have been deliberately put on the same progression curve as Cannith crafting, specifically because they dont want it to be stat-flated relative to crafted items.

Now does it make sense to have an increased die step at 21 instead of 20? Probably not, you could make an argument that EVERYTHING should be bumped to the higher die at 20 :) But there's a clear and consistent reason why the event xbow isnt.

I know and I don't disagree but if you make it a level 20 item, then a marginal item to begin with becomes useless at 21. So either up the die or make it a level 21 item...otherwise, I cannot see anyone using it even if it *is* the only named non repeater at those levels.
05-02-2019, 01:01 PM
Saaluta

I ran an inquisitive artificer build and once I hit 12, used a GS Heavy min 2 xbow, OMG...it was fun :)

Saal :)
05-02-2019, 01:37 PM
GramercyRiff

I'd be good with tweaking repeaters a bit, but there is no need to give them the dual crossbow treatment. Do something else with repeaters.
05-02-2019, 02:23 PM
droid327

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memnir

I think the restriction makes sense. It gives some other weapon types a chance to shine, in this case non-repeaters, and the game needs more of that. Most weapon usage was reduced to very narrow field for far too long. I'm glad the Devs are opening it up some.

Counterpoint, if the goal is to level the field for more weapon types, then trading one meta for another meta (or anti-meta, whatever you call the bottom end of the power list...) is only a sideways move at best, and a backwards one for anyone invested in the old weapon. Pendulum swings are not progress.

KT did a good job of leveling the field for 1h melee weapon types, albeit simply by rendering them all numerically identical. I dont think adding an option for RXB in Inqui would necessarily make L/HXB obsolete, I think it would be entirely build-dependent (do you have the prof? do you have the crit profile in your build? not everyone will answer yes to those), which is the ideal situation: carve out similar rolespace in different niches. If you want to build a full-auto Inqui, you can build around that concept...but if you want to leverage other things alongside Inqui, you wont be able to fit in RXB too and you'll stick with regular XBs. Its a tradeoff, as it should be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GramercyRiff

I'd be good with tweaking repeaters a bit, but there is no need to give them the dual crossbow treatment. Do something else with repeaters.

Fair enough, if RXBs had a full and proper role of their own totally distinct from Inqui, that'd be fine too. I just think its easier to call for them to work in alongside other xbows in Inqui than ask for them to get a complete standalone support structure of their own. Especially considering Inqui works well with GXBs too, so RXB is the only kind of xbow that inquis CANT use. Otherwise you could just think of it like the "crossbow universal tree"