Sneak speed bug with DWS Faster Sneaking and Assassin Stealthy

PDK Ranger 9/Rogue 6. I have both faster sneaking enhancements in play with Deepwoods Stalker Faster Sneaking 3 and Assassin Stealthy 3.

When I sneak I am indeed faster than just Stealthy 3 would make me, although the PDK animation is a bit awkward, like a crab scuttling along. When I jump while sneaking the sneak speed enhancements go away after I land and I have to un-sneak and then re-sneak to get them back again.

I'm about 95% sure that this wasn't happening on a pure rogue with just stealthy.

Interesting bug if that's the case.

jumping breaks stealth speed? This does not happen on my pure rogue

The sneak buff on assassins is 75% which is better than DWS; I remember a thread about them stacking

Wait til you hit the sneak speed buff of SD. You go FASTER than run speed while in sneak.

I'm thinking it could be a problem with the PDK animation alongside the sneaking penalty that gets assessed on jumping.

Before I jump he's scuttling along at full speed and afterwards he's still scuttling hard but at less than half the speed he was before the jump. Arms and legs moving just as fast as before but only half the ground covered in the same number of arm and leg movements.

It's most likely the PDK. Just recreated the build on a Shadar-Kai and no problem at all with the animation and speed coming out of a jump while sneaking.

More interesting stuff - I unequipped pieces of gear one by one and finally found the piece causing the slow down. When he has a heavy xbow in hand he slows after a jump. Gotta go hand the same xbow to the Shadar-Kai and see if that's the common thread. PDK is fine without the4 heavy xbow, no slow down in the animation or speed after a jump.

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Originally Posted by KoobTheProud

I'm thinking it could be a problem with the PDK animation alongside the sneaking penalty that gets assessed on jumping.

Before I jump he's scuttling along at full speed and afterwards he's still scuttling hard but at less than half the speed he was before the jump. Arms and legs moving just as fast as before but only half the ground covered in the same number of arm and leg movements.

It's most likely the PDK. Just recreated the build on a Shadar-Kai and no problem at all with the animation and speed coming out of a jump while sneaking.

More interesting stuff - I unequipped pieces of gear one by one and finally found the piece causing the slow down. When he has a heavy xbow in hand he slows after a jump. Gotta go hand the same xbow to the Shadar-Kai and see if that's the common thread. PDK is fine without the4 heavy xbow, no slow down in the animation or speed after a jump.

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fascinating.
Can you experiment with two handed weapons like a staff?

It's the Xbows and possibly bows in general. That's what's breaking the animation after a jump and reducing movement speed.

Both the PDK and Shadar-Kai exhibit the same break post jump with a Xbow or shortbow equipped and neither exhibit it with a melee weapon equipped. I tested great Xbow, heavy repeating xbow, heavy xbow and shortbow - which are what I had on hand. With the ranged weapons they both twitch their head right after a jump as if a frame got skipped and the slowdown is right then and stays slowed until they un-sneak/re-sneak.

I do not recall this happening with my Morninglord Mechanic but I'm not sure I was jumping and sneaking with her much. The PDK was designed to be more of an Assassinator and the Morninglord was designed to carry a BFG and kite.

Quarterstaves are clean, no problem, although they also get the head snap and frame adjustment, they just don't stall after that the way that bows seem too.

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Originally Posted by Saekee

The sneak buff on assassins is 75% which is better than DWS.

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The description says 75%, but in practice it's only 50% according to measurements by myself and at least one other forum poster.

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Originally Posted by Snarglefrump

The description says 75%, but in practice it's only 50% according to measurements by myself and at least one other forum poster.

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I didn't know this, thx! Although I feel like I am going 75%. Will check too

I am so glad to see this thread. I thought maybe it was all in my head. I'm doing ERs as a rogue and had no issues with the sneak speed enhancement until I started my current ER as a mechanic. TA staff and assassin worked just fine. I feel comfortable bug reporting this now.

Edit: I'm running dwarf

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Originally Posted by zyp

I am so glad to see this thread. I thought maybe it was all in my head. I'm doing ERs as a rogue and had no issues with the sneak speed enhancement until I started my current ER as a mechanic. TA staff and assassin worked just fine. I feel comfortable bug reporting this now.

Edit: I'm running dwarf

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I swear there's also an attack speed bug that sticks around too. But one thing at a time... :)

I'm looking at attack speed right now and don't have conclusive evidence since attacking from stealth while jumping is almost always a 1 shot. I do see some twitches I did not expect while doing this and it is possible that there is something there just not enough evidence yet.

I only jump shoot to handle elevation problems when I am below a target and my shots are being blocked by something.

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Originally Posted by KoobTheProud

PDK Ranger 9/Rogue 6. I have both faster sneaking enhancements in play with Deepwoods Stalker Faster Sneaking 3 and Assassin Stealthy 3.

When I sneak I am indeed faster than just Stealthy 3 would make me, although the PDK animation is a bit awkward, like a crab scuttling along. When I jump while sneaking the sneak speed enhancements go away after I land and I have to un-sneak and then re-sneak to get them back again.

I'm about 95% sure that this wasn't happening on a pure rogue with just stealthy.

Interesting bug if that's the case.

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This has always happened since they made the stealth speed enhancements Long ago. Never been fixed.

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Originally Posted by Saekee

I didn't know this, thx! Although I feel like I am going 75%. Will check too

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The foundation of science is independently verified results. I'd be delighted if more people tested the Sneak speed enhancements and filed bug reports for any discrepancies they find.

Just to re-emphasize: this bug has nothing to do with particular race animations. It's all about the animations with a ranged weapon when you sneak - jump - sneak with a speed enhancement for sneaking involved. The jump breaks the speed enhancement until you un-sneak and re-sneak again. The reason I didn't notice this on my first Mechanic who was a pure Morninglord is that I never jumped with sneaking. I always un-sneaked prior to the jump to avoid the sneak skill penalty, which is pretty ferocious when you are trying to make a jump of any significance.

Melee weapon animations seem to be ok across the board and don't seem to break the speed enhancements in the sneak - jump - sneak sequence.

There are other potential minor issues related to attack speed as well with sneaking and ranged weapons and jumping but these don't seem to have a major effect because the attack always pulls you out of sneak mode when it launches.

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Originally Posted by Snarglefrump

The foundation of science is independently verified results. I'd be delighted if more people tested the Sneak speed enhancements and filed bug reports for any discrepancies they find.

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Ok even anecdotally it is NOT going 75% of sneak with assassin faster sneaking. You are totally correct. I feel like this is recent though. i will try a timed test when I have lots of spare time.

so I had the weird experience that the boots of grounding in Haunted Halls made my rogue go lightning speed while sneaking. Sooo fun...wish they did not drop upon leaving quest

To add to the data, you cannot jump while wearing the boots...

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Originally Posted by Snarglefrump

The description says 75%, but in practice it's only 50% according to measurements by myself and at least one other forum poster.

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It has to do with the way sneak speed is calculated. It is 75%, but that wont increase your speed 75% because of the movement speed stacking skills. Acrobat fast movement wont add 20% either.

I measured speed tests in a prior rogue forum if anybody wants to look up a see the actual values from speed tests.
If I recall correctly my formula I tried to fit the numbers to was wrong, and somebody gave the correct forum at the end of the thread.

I ran from Meridia to the exit to the 12 for my tests.

(can't find my post but here is what I have in my test file)

Right now a 20 rogue in stealth is gaining 8% speed from Thief Acrobat Fast movement.
Right now a 20 rogue while running is gaining 14% speed from Thief Acrobat Fast movement.
The fastest 20 rogue in stealth is moving 77% as fast as a toon without class speed buffs.
The fastest 20 rogue in stealth is moving 67% as fast an non-acrobat.

I just did a quick disposable shadar-kai 6 monk/2 ranger/7 rogue, and found that all the faster sneaking enhancements stack. It is really funny to watch the toon scuttle along...This actually could be a good dex-based thrower stealth build (12 rogue/6 monk/2 ranger) in that you can stealth quests very quickly and use a potent ranged attack to take down remaining foes/bosses. Not sure how AP are but third core in Henshin also gets quickdraw, maybe SDK for the jaunt too (although again...it would stretch the AP).

Definitely stack for me on my DG, 1Wiz/6Ranger/13Monk.

But...If I jump I lose the faster sneaking. However, if I tumble I begin sneaking faster again.

Keep in mind that neither jumping nor tumbling break stealth.

Faster sneaking, full ranks of Tumble, Sneak and Hide + DG ability to phase through enemies while tumbling...

On a side note @ level 20 w/o maxed gear my Hide and MS are 69 (I think Invis mods Hide by another +20) and mobs STILL see me. Often.

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Originally Posted by Feralthyrtiaq

Definitely stack for me on my DG, 1Wiz/6Ranger/13Monk.

But...If I jump I lose the faster sneaking. However, if I tumble I begin sneaking faster again.

Keep in mind that neither jumping nor tumbling break stealth.

Faster sneaking, full ranks of Tumble, Sneak and Hide + DG ability to phase through enemies while tumbling...

On a side note @ level 20 w/o maxed gear my Hide and MS are 69 (I think Invis mods Hide by another +20) and mobs STILL see me. Often.

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yes--shadowdancer wraith form boosts it another 20. The invisi is nice but mobs with see invis/true seeing/true sight will bypass it.
Look into gear that also gives insightful hide, LGS with 'dex skills' bonus etc. and that will push it over 100.

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Originally Posted by Saekee

I just did a quick disposable shadar-kai 6 monk/2 ranger/7 rogue, and found that all the faster sneaking enhancements stack. It is really funny to watch the toon scuttle along...This actually could be a good dex-based thrower stealth build (12 rogue/6 monk/2 ranger) in that you can stealth quests very quickly and use a potent ranged attack to take down remaining foes/bosses. Not sure how AP are but third core in Henshin also gets quickdraw, maybe SDK for the jaunt too (although again...it would stretch the AP).

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I am sneaking faster than I am running with this build, barely