Monk Build Help

Printable View

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

10-17-2014, 09:37 PM
Lynix

Monk Build Help

Hey.

I've recently returned to DDO to play with a friend of mine. Both of us love the game, but we're still not completely knowledgeable about what works and what doesn't in terms of builds.

I'm playing a pure lvl 22 monk and my friend is a level 21 druid or thereabouts. He's focused on wolf / bear form (I don't know much about druids) and we mostly do dungeons just by the two of us with some help from hirelings for healing (painful, but it works).

I was wondering if any of you have any inputs on this build I put together, and give me some feedback on how to improve it?

Code:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01 DDO Character Planner Home Page Level 22 Lawful Good Elf Male (20 Monk \ 2 Epic) Hit Points: 264 Spell Points: 0 BAB: 15\15\20\25\25 Fortitude: 10 Reflex: 16 Will: 20 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 22) Strength 15 21 Dexterity 15 18 Constitution 11 14 Intelligence 8 11 Wisdom 16 26 Charisma 8 11 Tomes Used +3 Tome of Strength used at level 1 +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1 +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 1 +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1 +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1 +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 1 Feat/Enhancement Modified Skills Skills (Level 22) Balance 29 Bluff 2 Concentration 27 Diplomacy 6 Disable Device n/a Haggle 2 Heal 10 Hide 6 Intimidate 2 Jump 25 Listen 12 Move Silently 6 Open Lock n/a Perform n/a Repair 2 Search 4 Spellcraft 2 Spot 35 Swim 7 Tumble 7 Use Magic Device n/a Level 1 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Power Attack Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting Level 2 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist Level 3 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow Level 4 (Monk) Level 5 (Monk) Level 6 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Deflect Arrows Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons Level 7 (Monk) Level 8 (Monk) Level 9 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting Level 10 (Monk) Level 11 (Monk) Level 12 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons Level 13 (Monk) Level 14 (Monk) Level 15 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting Level 16 (Monk) Level 17 (Monk) Level 18 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Cleave Level 19 (Monk) Level 20 (Monk) Level 21 (Epic) Feat: (Selected) Epic: Vorpal Strikes Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Protection from Tainted Creatures (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Hand (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Argent Fist (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Touch of the Void Dragon (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - To Seek Perfection (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Difficulty at the Beginning (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Lifting the Veil (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Smite Tainted Creature (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Fists of Iron (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Restoring the Balance (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Jade Strike (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - The Receptive Earth (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Tomb of Jade (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Rise of the Phoenix (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Kukan-Do (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Meditation of War (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Empty Hand Mastery (Rank 1) Level 22 (Epic) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Riddle of Fire (Rank 1) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Ki Bolt (Rank 1) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Mystic Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Mystic Training (Rank 2) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Mystic Training (Rank 3) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Way of the Elegant Crane (Rank 1) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Eagle Claw Attack (Rank 1) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Lighting the Candle (Rank 1) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Lighting the Candle (Rank 2) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Lighting the Candle (Rank 3) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Embrace the Void (Rank 1) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Embrace the Void (Rank 2) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Embrace the Void (Rank 3) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Strength (Rank 1) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Strength (Rank 1)

Like I said it's just the two of us doing dungeons and challenges from time to time.
The previous build I ran with was a Dex based Lightning stance Ninja spy with cleave and greater cleave. It seemed to work pretty well, will the lack of greater cleave have a big impact on the damage I can do?

Any input is greatly appreciated, thank you for taking the time to read this.
10-18-2014, 12:14 AM
Toro12

Elf isn't optimal as it really doesn't add anything but meh not a huge deal

Your feats could use some serious help
WF : blunt ? Anything is better than that
Stunning blow : without a strength focus I imagine you are going to have difficulties landing SB even on eNorm
I'm not a big fan of deflect arrows but it is better than WF blunt

I'm going to say pick up at least dodge if not dodge and mobility.
Taking cleave so late kinda locked you out of getting great cleave. Maybe back up cleave for one of the 3 listed above and take great cleave at 18?

Not going to kill you to not have great cleave since it isn't required for overwhelming crit anymore
10-18-2014, 01:03 AM
Munkenmo

Check out the beginner monk builds link in my signature. It may be of some use to you.
10-18-2014, 04:47 AM
Robbenklopper

Welcome Monk-mate, great to see there are more pure Players.

First I wanna add that looking at fTdOmens guide or https://sites.google.com/site/bookofsyn/ is the best you can do.

Inputs on your build are difficult coz i don´t know where you wanna go with your Monk, there are different ways to Play or configure, and gear does matter.
I Consider cleaving and great-cleaving with +2W important for Groups of Mobs. Fist of Iron and Eagle Claw you took are fine.
In Addition, it feels like not all feats are listed ?

Now that you´re elf, nothing can be Changed about that with an ER. But changing your build Point can be redone, and you get more (32p i guess). I consider humans over all to get some more heal amp and i love the +1 feat they get.
Stats with +3 tomes i see could be better with str14, dex14, and some more in con
What stance do you mainly run in? you wrote your previous build was light-stance ninja.

For shintao tree: phoenix line up Points can be spend better, it´s not worth. Kukan-do is sweet, but jade-strike and tomb of jade are not worth (ok maybe in thunderholmen). Not sure about reed in the wind. I would generally feel lacking of WIS for a shintao.
For Henshin tree: There are better ways to burn your ki and AP than with candle and embrace the void. I would generally feel lacking of staff and cores for fire+force spellpower/crit chance (and void strike) for a henshin.
For Ninja tree: not a single AP here. i always go for acrobatics and agility, feels very important.

Check your saves and dodge, i recommend to get what you can from the enhancement-tree. Push wisdom up high for best shintao-monk who stuns and quivers.
You mainly quest with one friend like i do most the times. Hires are fine and phoenix is not neccessary ( if you get a raise-dead clicky from GS crafting for worst case)

Happy hunting.
10-18-2014, 01:01 PM
Lynix

Thank you for all of your replies.

I should probably clarify my situation.

Me and my friend have been playing for a while on and off now and then. He is lvl 21 and I'm lvl 22. I'd say that I've at least got some pretty nice gear, as most of it is from the Eveningstar commendations.

My gear of note is this:

- Purple Dragon Helm
- Vestment of the Sun Soul Clothing
- Bracers of the Sun Soul
- Ring of the Stalker (lvl 16)
- Dex +5 boots of balancing +5
- Purple Dragon Gauntlets
- Belt of the Sun Soul
- Drow Piwafwi (This is mostly from when I was using the Ninja Spy, but the invisibility guard is pretty nice imo)
- Night Hag's Heartstone
- +4 Desert Sand Handwraps of stunning +4 (Mostly for the Slicing Winds and Flaming burst that's on them)

What I'm looking for is a build that I can do dungeons and challenges with my friend with. Since we rely on hirelings we would want at least a little sustain. From what we've encountered so far, hirelings cannot always be counted on, so we need to be able to hold our own at least until their AI decides they want to heal us.

I haven't taken all of my enhancements in the build because the Harper Agent wasn't in the Char builder I used, and I was thinking of taking at least some points into that, not sure if it's worth it though, thoughts? I still had quite a few points left so I should be able to reach both agility and acrobatics.

My Epic Destiny currently looks like this
http://i.gyazo.com/4cc641962856ce33802a699db185afb6.png
but I reckon they need to be changed. Are the Multiple Enhancement selector's worth taking for some extra stats?

I already have the +3 All Stats tome from the "best" version of the Menace of the Underdark pack I bought a while back. And as I don't have the money, or really want to level up all over again as an F2P, I'm stuck with elf.

I will read through the monk guide you posted, thank you.
10-18-2014, 03:25 PM
Saekee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynix

Thank you for all of your replies.

I should probably clarify my situation.

Me and my friend have been playing for a while on and off now and then. He is lvl 21 and I'm lvl 22. I'd say that I've at least got some pretty nice gear, as most of it is from the Eveningstar commendations.

My gear of note is this:

- Purple Dragon Helm
- Vestment of the Sun Soul Clothing
- Bracers of the Sun Soul
- Ring of the Stalker (lvl 16)
- Dex +5 boots of balancing +5
- Purple Dragon Gauntlets
- Belt of the Sun Soul
- Drow Piwafwi (This is mostly from when I was using the Ninja Spy, but the invisibility guard is pretty nice imo)
- Night Hag's Heartstone
- +4 Desert Sand Handwraps of stunning +4 (Mostly for the Slicing Winds and Flaming burst that's on them)

What I'm looking for is a build that I can do dungeons and challenges with my friend with. Since we rely on hirelings we would want at least a little sustain. From what we've encountered so far, hirelings cannot always be counted on, so we need to be able to hold our own at least until their AI decides they want to heal us.

I haven't taken all of my enhancements in the build because the Harper Agent wasn't in the Char builder I used, and I was thinking of taking at least some points into that, not sure if it's worth it though, thoughts? I still had quite a few points left so I should be able to reach both agility and acrobatics.

My Epic Destiny currently looks like this
http://i.gyazo.com/4cc641962856ce33802a699db185afb6.png
but I reckon they need to be changed. Are the Multiple Enhancement selector's worth taking for some extra stats?

I already have the +3 All Stats tome from the "best" version of the Menace of the Underdark pack I bought a while back. And as I don't have the money, or really want to level up all over again as an F2P, I'm stuck with elf.

I will read through the monk guide you posted, thank you.

Ok based on what you have, here are my recommendations. these are just stepping stones to other things that you can do, order does not matter:
1) upgrade your Ring of the Stalker, or even better--make a new tier 3 epic one. It will have two slots with which you can play. In the colorless, add an augment of exceptional STR. Yellow is up to you--Ship buffs are covering most resistances but there are some nice rare yellow augments that can go there.
2) replace your boots with Boots of the Woodsman. It is a commendation turn-in. (Druids). You only need 5!
3) between ring of the stalker and the drow cloak, you have some nice sneak attack bonus damage. You do not have anything listed for the neck area. Why not add Golden Guile? It adds improved deception and is easy to get. It is in the Lords of Dust Chain, fun to run anyway and easy.
4) It seems like you do not have a fortification item? A quick fix is running the heroic Relic of Sovereign past and making the Nightforged Gorget (useful to reuse when you TR sometime). Another option is adding it on a ring from the AH (pretty sure you can find them there with prefix 'fortified').
5) The trinket you have is not very good; I would replace it. If you want to punish yourself with a long process, you could make an epic blasting chime tier 3 and add fortification there in the blue slot (a lot of work, though, but maybe your friend wants to make some gear there also, plus if you want to be an uber bard in some future life it will give anthem and sonic power); it will also give you another diamond slot with which to play. I like running challenges solo and have also made the Calomel wraps as my general beater, slotting devotion 90 for heal finishers (they also proc Lifedrinker which mitigates some damage). The Planar focus trinkets are top stuff if you can get one, sometimes on the AH but typically farmed out. they are rare though.
6) you want to add vitality (what used to be called 'false life') and CON to your setup for MOAH HIT POINTS.
7) easy wraps to acquire are Grave Wrappings. You can even get them off the AH since they drop so often. Since you are lawful good, they will neg level you. Unfortunately, their awesome level draining feature is blocked by the manslayer on the stalker ring, so you will need to choose.
7) Try to get the Spider-Spun caparison. It even appears sometimes on the AH and can be farmed out. Then you get to pound out the PDK favor by doing a lot of the quests on EE. It is very challenging if you do not have all the adventure packs.

Destiny:
Since you are STR based, I recommend legendary dreadnought. I think your tier is high enough to activate it. GMofF is not so great although LD was somewhat nerfed (easier to activate now). You can get haste boost in there. Eventually work your way over to the Primal sphere and make it possible to twist Rejuvenation cocoon.

Enhancements:
I recommend that you get shadow veil from Ninja spy--that makes 11 points. If you are STR based and in Fire stance, the sun soul set will keep healing you and restoring neg levels (very handy...). It works well with Lighting the candle from henshin. But unarmed is built around Shintao tier 5 whose tainted creature smites are designed for that which you cannot stun. You can chain attacks with stunning fist-cleave-fists of light--and Lay Waste (momentum swing does not work with wraps) so that you are always able to throw out the heal finisher when needed. Very handy! Harper has awesome DPS with melee power and lots of ability improvements although the latter are in dex char and int which will not help your build...

This is the early epic list--by the time you get it all you can Epic Reincarnate and focus on different feats as suggested by others here and elsewhere, and better gear. No need to rush--epics are different than heroics in that you can choose the quests you like no matter your level (20-28) since they all give the same no matter what. It can make things redundant but when building out loot it can be fine! I have done a ton of runs of Spies and Von 4 along with some others that I like to stealth.
10-19-2014, 08:50 PM
JamesNiels

Hello. I have an unarmed monk on its 11th epic life so did a lot of respecs by now... About ur enhancments: ur gonna want to pick up no mercy in the ninja spy tree. Together with empty hand mastery it is by far the best enhancment for a stunner. It gives +30% damage on helpless mobs. Assuming u hit for around 100 this comes down to 30 extra damage per fist. Increased damage against helpless is +50% base. If you dont use stunning fist as often as possible (every 6 seconds), u should. With a lot of grinding you can twist sense weakness for another 30% extra dps totaling at 210% dps, with a reliable stun DC u can hit for 250 per fist constantly, unless what ur fighting is immune to stun. I would leave the henshin tree for what it is except for maybe the animal style thingy if u have spare AP. I would as mentioned drop the rise of the phoenix its simply to expensive since the healing ki stuff is useless. I would pick up dismissing strike it works on loads of stuff mostly ellies but also beholders, devils, demons (depending on the plane ur fighting in).

Then theres the feats. As said by other posters u should really change weapon focus, it is terribad. I would take great cleave for now which is not as good as whirlwind attack (Ill get back to that later) but its better than cleave. Great cleave procs offhand attacks so its gonna be 2 hits 90% of the time instead of the single hit that cleave gives. Also dodge is not a bad feat.

Then theres ur stats. A melee can never have enough HP, the more the better. With some mobs hitting for 300 ur gonna want a minimum of 600 hp before facing them to be able to take 2 hits at least. Recommended/maximum HP is 1000 in grandmaster or 1150 in legendary dreadnought. So i would advise dropping dex to 14, str to 14, maybe 12/13 and putting those points in con. Keep wisdom high it is the most important stat on a monk as it is used to stun, giving 180/210% dps.

That brings me to ur ed points. With max wisdom and good gear ur will save should be close to 70 if not higher. In nothing but the hardest content will a spell land on u that u get a will save for. So i would not take the extra will save from grandmaster i would put the points in wisdom instead. Ur fort save is lower but can be gold enough in most scenarios, however i would not take those extra saves either. U also have the ability that increases max ki, which is pretty useless since u should have 300 max ki at least. Ur only gonna be at max ki if ur not using ur abilities (red names) and having 345 ki instead of 300 gives no addes benefit. Again i would take wis. Make sure u get drifting lotus it gives crowd control and is awesome. Also take everything is nothing ur gonna have a blast, literally. It bypasses deathblock and works on everything but red nameds. This means u can 1 shot orange named golems and undead along with the rest of the room. Its dc will seem low but its a will save and only divines and stuff have will saves.

I noticed that u have 1 fate point. Since ur lvl 3 gmof u can move to dreadnought to train 'legendary tactics'. It gives stacking +6 to your stun DC. It should require only 108k xp to get the 3 points required, then u can twist it and get back in gmof. Another twist ur gonna want is cocoon for self healing. And like i said before 'sense weakness' but its tier 4 so requires a lot of grinding.

Ur race is not very beneficial for a monk. Human is good for heal amp and wis/con and action boost: damage. Halfling is good if u take the dragonmark of healing feat.

Now about cleave and great cleave, they are nowhere near as good as whirlwind attack. It hits every mob in 360 degrees 3-5 times (mostly 4 times) with +4 W damage. And has a 5 second cooldown. Basicly this means u would have to use cleave 4 times, turn around and cleave another 4 times to reach the same effect and u would still be doing -3 W per hit. This is also great for ki generation purposes. 1 WA on 4 mobs is 16 ki already. The downside however is that it has a lot of prereq feats, some of which are not bad to have, but combat expertise requires 13 int including tomez so would require 10 base at least.

Oh im kinda rambling ..... hm well anyways i would also recommend going 16 monk 2 fighter 2 paladin for no fail saves, 1d4 light damage, +3 stun dc, 1 extra feat (other should be grandmaster of forms which will not be autogranted) and cheap haste boost which is awesome. U will only lose the capstone and the 10 dr, which is useless in epic elite, oh and half a W die and 5% movement speed.

Gear u wanna keep an eye out for: seal of house Dun'robar with +5 insight to stun DC. Iron mitts, grave wrappings, antilode, thunderforged wraps. Something that gives blur (very important): ring of shadows does it but GS smoke is better. EE shadowsight. Jorgundals collar.

Good luck and send me a pm or reply if u wanna know more
10-20-2014, 12:44 AM
Lynix

Thanks you all for taking the time to help me out.

I've reworked the build a bit, so now it looks like this:

Code:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01 DDO Character Planner Home Page Level 22 Lawful Good Elf Male (20 Monk \ 2 Epic) Hit Points: 242 Spell Points: 0 BAB: 15\15\20\25\25 Fortitude: 12 Reflex: 19 Will: 21 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 22) Strength 13 16 Dexterity 13 19 Constitution 8 13 Intelligence 10 13 Wisdom 18 29 Charisma 8 11 Tomes Used +3 Tome of Strength used at level 1 +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1 +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 1 +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1 +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1 +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 1 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 22) Balance 3 27 Bluff 0 2 Concentration 4 32 Diplomacy 0 6 Disable Device n/a n/a Haggle 0 2 Heal 7 25.5 Hide 3 6 Intimidate 0 5 Jump 3 8 Listen 5 13 Move Silently 3 6 Open Lock n/a n/a Perform n/a n/a Repair 1 3 Search 1 5 Spellcraft 1 3 Spot 9 36 Swim 3 5 Tumble 4 10 Use Magic Device 1.5 13.5 Level 1 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge Level 2 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility Level 3 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting Level 4 (Monk) Level 5 (Monk) Level 6 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist Level 7 (Monk) Level 8 (Monk) Level 9 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Whirlwind Attack Level 10 (Monk) Level 11 (Monk) Level 12 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting Level 13 (Monk) Level 14 (Monk) Level 15 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting Level 16 (Monk) Level 17 (Monk) Level 18 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons Level 19 (Monk) Level 20 (Monk) Level 21 (Epic) Feat: (Selected) Epic: Vorpal Strikes Level 22 (Epic) Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1) Enhancement: Elf - Elven Dexterity (Rank 1) Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1) Enhancement: Elf - Elven Dexterity (Rank 1) Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Riddle of Fire (Rank 1) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Way of the Elegant Crane (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Shadow Veil (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 3) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Subtlety (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Subtlety (Rank 2) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Subtlety (Rank 3) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Eagle Claw Attack (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 2) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 3) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Flash Bang (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Flash Bang (Rank 2) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Flash Bang (Rank 3) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - No Mercy (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - No Mercy (Rank 2) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - No Mercy (Rank 3) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Protection from Tainted Creatures (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Hand (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Argent Fist (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Touch of the Void Dragon (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - To Seek Perfection (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Ki Shout (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Exemplar (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Exemplar (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Exemplar (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Fists of Iron (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Conditioning (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Conditioning (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Conditioning (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Dismissing Strike (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Meditation of War (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Empty Hand Mastery (Rank 1)

I can see how Whirlwind attack is beating Cleave/Greatcleave by far.

About Vorpal Strikes. Do they stack with something like Manslayer? I may be getting the effects mixed up a bit.

As the build is here, I'm not sure whether to go for Sun or Wind stance. I'm guessing Wind would be better as the dex is a bit higher and there's no wisdom penalty?

Is it worth dumping that point each level into UMD when you can't get it higher than 13.5? I haven't really ever used scrolls and such before since I've never played much else than Monk and possibly Wizard (which had pretty much everything available anyway). If not what would be better to dump it into?

Would it be worth taking 3 points from somewhere in my enhancements and putting them into Harper Agent for the +1 enhancement and +20 SP?
Related, if I don't do that and don't have any SP, can I even cast rejuvenating cocoon?

Again, thank you for taking the time to help me out. I really appreciate it.
10-20-2014, 01:07 AM
Munkenmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynix

1. I can see how Whirlwind attack is beating Cleave/Greatcleave by far.

2. About Vorpal Strikes. Do they stack with something like Manslayer? I may be getting the effects mixed up a bit.

3. As the build is here, I'm not sure whether to go for Sun or Wind stance. I'm guessing Wind would be better as the dex is a bit higher and there's no wisdom penalty?

4. Is it worth dumping that point each level into UMD when you can't get it higher than 13.5? I haven't really ever used scrolls and such before since I've never played much else than Monk and possibly Wizard (which had pretty much everything available anyway). If not what would be better to dump it into?

5. Would it be worth taking 3 points from somewhere in my enhancements and putting them into Harper Agent for the +1 enhancement and +20 SP?
Related, if I don't do that and don't have any SP, can I even cast rejuvenating cocoon?

1. Whirlwind does beat either cleave individually, but personally I still feel that the cleaves give a better return on feats invested vs whirlwind. My monk had no problem hitting 28dodge without Mobility/Spring attack so they were wasted feats, likewise I'd never use CE over Power attack or precision. I do take dodge, but (imo) I don't think One 360 degree cleave that has 3 wasted qualifying feats is better than two 180 degree cleaves with no wasted feats.
Ie. Given I always take dodge and power attack. Whirlwind = 4 feats for one 360 degree attack VS Cleaves = 2 feats for two 180 degree cleaves. I'll take the versatility that 2 free feats provides tyvm.

2. Vorpal strikes and manslayer both stack and you when you hit an eligible mob you will see 2 procs of 100 if that mob had over 1k hp when you hit it. (if a mob had 1001 hp you would still see 2 lots of 100, the second chance to insta kill was still counted at the start of the hit when the mob had 1001hp :( )

3. Neither. Earth stance is supreme, but wind is better than fire imo.

4. The last .5 is not worth it as there are no more sources of .5 in the game and your skill is rounded down to the nearest whole number. Getting 13 ranks is absolutely worthwhile and even with 8base charisma it's possible to reasonably attain 40+UMD

5. Anyone can now gets SP just by equipping a magi or wizardry item/augment. The SP you can gain from gear/enhancements/pastlives can indeed be used for enhancements / epic destiny abilities that cost SP to activate (eg a pure fighter can cast rejuv cocoon).
10-20-2014, 01:10 AM
Braegan

Is there any reason you don't consider Tring? You would unlock more build points, be able to choose a race that has more synergy with the monk class, and have access to a PL feat that is really nice.

Regarding your latest build post...it's really not good, at all. I am sorry if I am coming across crass, but you are asking for advice. And that is mine.

Reasons:

Stats: You don't have enough points to max wis (which most monk should do) and raise your str, dex, and con to respectable levels. Your Str, Con, and Dex (for feat are too low, will address later).

Skills: You have half ranking UMD for one. That half rank does nothing for you. You have selected quite a few questionable skills with a couple ranks that won't benefit you much at all. Stick to what you need as a monk, go whole skill ranks.

Feats: No Precision or Power Attack seems a glaring oversight to me. Also, at level one you will not be able to take Combat Expertise (+3 tome will not kick in at that time), Also you cannot take GTWF with 13 Dex and a +3 tome.

I really would recommend TRing and really planning a new build out. You will be much, much stronger for it. A 2nd life TR isn't bad at all and you will have a much better character for it. I don't mean to sound so negative, but I am trying to give advice without sugar coating it.

All the best.
10-20-2014, 01:43 AM
Lynix

Quote:

Originally Posted by fTdOmen

1. Whirlwind does beat either cleave individually, but personally I still feel that the cleaves give a better return on feats invested vs whirlwind. My monk had no problem hitting 28dodge without Mobility/Spring attack so they were wasted feats, likewise I'd never use CE over Power attack or precision. I do take dodge, but (imo) I don't think One 360 degree cleave that has 3 wasted qualifying feats is better than two 180 degree cleaves with no wasted feats.
Ie. Given I always take dodge and power attack. Whirlwind = 4 feats for one 360 degree attack VS Cleaves = 2 feats for two 180 degree cleaves. I'll take the versatility that 2 free feats provides tyvm.

2. Vorpal strikes and manslayer both stack and you when you hit an eligible mob you will see 2 procs of 100 if that mob had over 1k hp when you hit it. (if a mob had 1001 hp you would still see 2 lots of 100, the second chance to insta kill was still counted at the start of the hit when the mob had 1001hp :( )

3. Neither. Earth stance is supreme, but wind is better than fire imo.

4. The last .5 is not worth it as there are no more sources of .5 in the game and your skill is rounded down to the nearest whole number. Getting 13 ranks is absolutely worthwhile and even with 8base charisma it's possible to reasonably attain 40+UMD

5. Anyone can now gets SP just by equipping a magi or wizardry item/augment. The SP you can gain from gear/enhancements/pastlives can indeed be used for enhancements / epic destiny abilities that cost SP to activate (eg a pure fighter can cast rejuv cocoon).

1. I see, I had never considered it in the past, as it is a lot of feats to "throw away" to get something useful, where as with cleave you get stuff you can use. But the guy before you said it hits 3-5 times per mob per use for +4W? That seems stronger to me.

2. I see, that is really strong.

3. I always figured that Fire or Lightning stance was best for straight up dps? I'm guessing it's the +1 crit multiplier that does it? Or is it just that it makes you way tankier than the other two stances so you're at less of a risk of dying? I never seemed to have problems surviving in the stuff I did with my ninja spy monk and I was using lightning stance then. The only issues I had was getting oneshot by spells or really hard hitting enemies critting or something.

4. Right, I'll dump it elsewhere. Good to know about it though.

5. Ahh I see, that's nice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braegan

Is there any reason you don't consider Tring? You would unlock more build points, be able to choose a race that has more synergy with the monk class, and have access to a PL feat that is really nice.

Regarding your latest build post...it's really not good, at all. I am sorry if I am coming across crass, but you are asking for advice. And that is mine.

Reasons:

Stats: You don't have enough points to max wis (which most monk should do) and raise your str, dex, and con to respectable levels. Your Str, Con, and Dex (for feat are too low, will address later).

Skills: You have half ranking UMD for one. That half rank does nothing for you. You have selected quite a few questionable skills with a couple ranks that won't benefit you much at all. Stick to what you need as a monk, go whole skill ranks.

Feats: No Precision or Power Attack seems a glaring oversight to me. Also, at level one you will not be able to take Combat Expertise (+3 tome will not kick in at that time), Also you cannot take GTWF with 13 Dex and a +3 tome.

I really would recommend TRing and really planning a new build out. You will be much, much stronger for it. A 2nd life TR isn't bad at all and you will have a much better character for it. I don't mean to sound so negative, but I am trying to give advice without sugar coating it.

All the best.

I would really prefer to not True Reincarnating, as I'd like to continue playing with my friend for now. The only reason we got back into the game was because he hadn't done any of the Eveningstar stuff and wanted to do it as he just hit lvl 20. Also I'm currently a F2P'er, so I have next to no dungeons unlocked, which would mean I would have to grind the same dungeon (or challenge) over and over again for 20 levels, which would be a bit boring. I might do it later once I'm a VIP again, but for now I'd rather stick to just Lesser Reincarnations.

And thank you for being honest. I'd rather know that it sucks than think I've got something that works and then waste another Heart of Wood.

What questionable skills would you say I have? Looking aside from the half a point of UMD, I took the ones the basic monk guide posted earlier suggested and put points into Balance since I really don't like being knocked down.

Switching Combat Expertise and Two Weapon Fighting in Lvl 1 and 3 would be possible while granting the same result, wouldn't it? Also why can't I get Greater Two Weapon Fighting with a +3 tome? I put an extra point into Dex at lvl 12 so I got to 17 with the +3 tome.

I guess I can see how no precision or power attack can be bad though, not sure what to throw away though. There's nothing as far as I can see that will allow me to get either without losing either Whirlwind Attack or Greater Two Weapon Fighting. (or vorpal strikes)

Like I said earlier. I'd probably TR if it wasn't because I'm planning on playing with my friend now, and I'm an F2P with no dungeon packs, so I'd have to grind out the same dungeons over and over as far as I'm aware.

Thank you all for the responses.
10-20-2014, 04:11 AM
Munkenmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynix

1. I see, I had never considered it in the past, as it is a lot of feats to "throw away" to get something useful, where as with cleave you get stuff you can use. But the guy before you said it hits 3-5 times per mob per use for +4W? That seems stronger to me.

3. I always figured that Fire or Lightning stance was best for straight up dps? I'm guessing it's the +1 crit multiplier that does it? Or is it just that it makes you way tankier than the other two stances so you're at less of a risk of dying? I never seemed to have problems surviving in the stuff I did with my ninja spy monk and I was using lightning stance then. The only issues I had was getting oneshot by spells or really hard hitting enemies critting or something.

1. Like I said, Whirlwind is stronger than either of the cleaves, but imo it's not stronger than both cleaves + 2 free feats. You've already given up power attack which is +5 damage per swing per fist (easily up to 20 damage on a 19/20) +doublestrikes, giving up power attack is a big hit to overall dps. Like I said it is a matter of opinion, but imo this is the perfect example of why whirlwind is too feat intensive to be worthwhile.

3. Fire grants +4 str, that's +2 damage per hit, it doesn't even come close to +1 multiplier on 19/20 once your in epic levels. To be fair wind is quite a big dps increase, especially if you don't have access to haste. Once you do though you'll notice that you can spend alot more time attacking whilst in earth stance, compared to wind stance. You'll notice things like shintao's +15prr that only applies in earth stance.

If you're running in Gmof you end up comparing:
Earth stance unhasted: +45PRR +4 con, +1 crit multiplier on 19/20, -2dex
Earth stance hasted: +45PRR +4 con, +1 crit multiplier on 19/20, -2dex

Wind unhasted: +13% double strike, +4dex, +15% attack speed, +30% movement speed and -2 con.
Wind hasted: +13 double strike, +4 dex, -2con.

Wind loses too many of it's benefits to a speed item, blinding speed or the haste spell, where as earth stance keeps it unique offensive and defensive properties.
Poor balancing by the developers has made earth stance far better than it's peers. Earths ability to stay in combat for so much longer without the need to heal also should be taken into consideration, it does indirectly add a lot of damage.
10-20-2014, 05:03 AM
JamesNiels

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynix

Thanks you all for taking the time to help me out.

I've reworked the build a bit, so now it looks like this:

Code:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01 DDO Character Planner Home Page Level 22 Lawful Good Elf Male (20 Monk \ 2 Epic) Hit Points: 242 Spell Points: 0 BAB: 15\15\20\25\25 Fortitude: 12 Reflex: 19 Will: 21 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 22) Strength 13 16 Dexterity 13 19 Constitution 8 13 Intelligence 10 13 Wisdom 18 29 Charisma 8 11 Tomes Used +3 Tome of Strength used at level 1 +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1 +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 1 +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1 +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1 +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 1 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 22) Balance 3 27 Bluff 0 2 Concentration 4 32 Diplomacy 0 6 Disable Device n/a n/a Haggle 0 2 Heal 7 25.5 Hide 3 6 Intimidate 0 5 Jump 3 8 Listen 5 13 Move Silently 3 6 Open Lock n/a n/a Perform n/a n/a Repair 1 3 Search 1 5 Spellcraft 1 3 Spot 9 36 Swim 3 5 Tumble 4 10 Use Magic Device 1.5 13.5 Level 1 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge Level 2 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility Level 3 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting Level 4 (Monk) Level 5 (Monk) Level 6 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist Level 7 (Monk) Level 8 (Monk) Level 9 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Whirlwind Attack Level 10 (Monk) Level 11 (Monk) Level 12 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting Level 13 (Monk) Level 14 (Monk) Level 15 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting Level 16 (Monk) Level 17 (Monk) Level 18 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons Level 19 (Monk) Level 20 (Monk) Level 21 (Epic) Feat: (Selected) Epic: Vorpal Strikes Level 22 (Epic) Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1) Enhancement: Elf - Elven Dexterity (Rank 1) Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1) Enhancement: Elf - Elven Dexterity (Rank 1) Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Riddle of Fire (Rank 1) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Way of the Elegant Crane (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Shadow Veil (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 3) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Subtlety (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Subtlety (Rank 2) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Subtlety (Rank 3) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Eagle Claw Attack (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 2) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 3) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Flash Bang (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Flash Bang (Rank 2) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Flash Bang (Rank 3) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - No Mercy (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - No Mercy (Rank 2) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - No Mercy (Rank 3) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Protection from Tainted Creatures (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Hand (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Argent Fist (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Touch of the Void Dragon (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - To Seek Perfection (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Ki Shout (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Exemplar (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Exemplar (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Exemplar (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Fists of Iron (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Conditioning (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Conditioning (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Conditioning (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Dismissing Strike (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Meditation of War (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Empty Hand Mastery (Rank 1)

I can see how Whirlwind attack is beating Cleave/Greatcleave by far.

About Vorpal Strikes. Do they stack with something like Manslayer? I may be getting the effects mixed up a bit.

As the build is here, I'm not sure whether to go for Sun or Wind stance. I'm guessing Wind would be better as the dex is a bit higher and there's no wisdom penalty?

Is it worth dumping that point each level into UMD when you can't get it higher than 13.5? I haven't really ever used scrolls and such before since I've never played much else than Monk and possibly Wizard (which had pretty much everything available anyway). If not what would be better to dump it into?

Would it be worth taking 3 points from somewhere in my enhancements and putting them into Harper Agent for the +1 enhancement and +20 SP?
Related, if I don't do that and don't have any SP, can I even cast rejuvenating cocoon?

Again, thank you for taking the time to help me out. I really appreciate it.

Hey.

The character planner has a little flaw in it which is that it adds the tome bonus selected completely, rather than adding 1 at lvl 3, 2 at lvl 7 and 3 at level 11 etc. Therefore u cannot take CE at lvl 1. While figuring out the feat leveling i encountered a little problem, ur basicly short 1 feat (improved critical) because i was either human or 2 fighter when i fitted in whirlwind attack but theres a workaround tho. Heres what u could do if u decide on going for whirlwind attack.

1. Power attack
1. MA) Dodge
2. MA) Stunning fist
3. Two weapon fighting
6. Mobility
6. MA) Spring attack
9. Improved two weapon fighting. (Requires 17 dex, 2 is max increase from tomes at this point so 15 base)
12. Combat expertise
15. Greater two weapon fighting
18. Whirlwind attack
21. Improved martial arts
24. Improved critical
27. Overwhelming critical/epic will/blinding speed

This might be suboptimal because ur losing ur sweet lvl 27 feat if u want the dps increase that overwhelming crit gives. OC gives a 10% increase in ur dps (on 0% fortification mobs) which is not bad. OC requires IC however which is only a 5% increase in dps which is not that good but still its dps. However the things ur gonna have trouble with is dps on stuff that cant be stunned (undead, ellies and constructs mostly). Which all have 100% fortification... personally im not sure yet what i would do because i def want my epic will/blinding speed and whirlwind attack. So i guess i would drop the OC and maybe IC too since its only 5% by itself. Also i didnt include vorpal strikes for 2 reasons: on mobs below 1k hp its not bad, to put it in perspective it 'adds' 25 damage per hit. (Average hp its gonna go off on: 1000/2 times chance 5%) however it does like ur stuns not work on pesky undead and ellies (tho they will be kindly requested to dismiss themselves), and depending on the difficulty u run on, mobs are gonna have more to loads more hp than 1k. Which brings me to how it acts on mobs with over 1k hp which is a bigger problem. As far as i can tell the vorpal hits do 100 untyped damage but ur weapon effects and sneak damage wont proc (correct me if im wrong cuz not sure) which means it is actually a decrease in dps. Especially as ur damage goes up. Or even worse: while blitzing (more true for old blitz). And i will spare u the rant i had planned for the uselessness of the dr/slashing bypass.

Considering cleave and great cleave it would look something like:
1. Stunning fist
1. MA) Deflect arrows
2. MA) power attack
3. Cleave
6. Great cleave
6. MA. Two weapon fighting.
9. Improved two weapon fighting.
12. Uhmmmm. Dodge/whatever
15. Greater two weapon fighting
18. Improved critical.
21. Improved martial arts.
24. OC.
27. Awesomeness in the form of epic will or blinding speed.

Posting this for now will edit later as im typing on mobile and cant google without loosing this cant hit planner or game atm.
10-20-2014, 05:26 AM
Lynix

Quote:

Originally Posted by fTdOmen

1. Like I said, Whirlwind is stronger than either of the cleaves, but imo it's not stronger than both cleaves + 2 free feats. You've already given up power attack which is +5 damage per swing per fist (easily up to 20 damage on a 19/20) +doublestrikes, giving up power attack is a big hit to overall dps. Like I said it is a matter of opinion, but imo this is the perfect example of why whirlwind is too feat intensive to be worthwhile.

3. Fire grants +4 str, that's +2 damage per hit, it doesn't even come close to +1 multiplier on 19/20 once your in epic levels. To be fair wind is quite a big dps increase, especially if you don't have access to haste. Once you do though you'll notice that you can spend alot more time attacking whilst in earth stance, compared to wind stance. You'll notice things like shintao's +15prr that only applies in earth stance.

If you're running in Gmof you end up comparing:
Earth stance unhasted: +45PRR +4 con, +1 crit multiplier on 19/20, -2dex
Earth stance hasted: +45PRR +4 con, +1 crit multiplier on 19/20, -2dex

Wind unhasted: +13% double strike, +4dex, +15% attack speed, +30% movement speed and -2 con.
Wind hasted: +13 double strike, +4 dex, -2con.

Wind loses too many of it's benefits to a speed item, blinding speed or the haste spell, where as earth stance keeps it unique offensive and defensive properties.
Poor balancing by the developers has made earth stance far better than it's peers. Earths ability to stay in combat for so much longer without the need to heal also should be taken into consideration, it does indirectly add a lot of damage.

I see, that makes sense. And with UMD I guess I could buy scrolls or wands of Haste. (Or cross my fingers that I can get my hands on an eternal flask, very unlikely though)

I'm guessing I can re-route some of my enhancements into the earth stance stuff in Shintao since I'll actually be using it?

How about threat though? I'm guessing it won't matter much since I'm just going to be doing dungeons and challenges with a friend, so we're only 2 people and hirelings. Would any threat based Enhancements be wasted? (I'm thinking of stuff like Sublety in Ninja Spy and / or Ki Shout in Shintao) Wouldn't the points be better spent elsewhere? My friend is a druid so he can take just about as much of a beating as I can, if not more.

And because I was curious (And because I've already bought the tree) is the 3 points worth investing into Harper agent to get the +1 to hit vs evil, +1 universal spellpower, +1 enhancement bonus to weapon and +20SP? It seems strong for only 3 points.

I think I am gonna go for the double cleaves, as I would agree, as an Elf, I give up too much for Whirlwind attack. Maybe if I was human and had an extra feat.

What I then built was this:

Code:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01 DDO Character Planner Home Page Level 22 Lawful Good Elf Male (20 Monk \ 2 Epic) Hit Points: 242 Spell Points: 0 BAB: 15\15\20\25\25 Fortitude: 9 Reflex: 19 Will: 21 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 22) Strength 13 16 Dexterity 13 19 Constitution 10 13 Intelligence 8 11 Wisdom 18 29 Charisma 8 11 Tomes Used +3 Tome of Strength used at level 1 +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1 +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 1 +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1 +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1 +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 1 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 22) Balance 3 10 Bluff 0 2 Concentration 5 29 Diplomacy 0 6 Disable Device n/a n/a Haggle 0 2 Heal 6.5 22 Hide 3 6 Intimidate 0 2 Jump 3 8 Listen 5 13 Move Silently 3 6 Open Lock n/a n/a Perform n/a n/a Repair 0 2 Search 0 4 Spellcraft 0 2 Spot 9 36 Swim 3 5 Tumble 4 10 Use Magic Device n/a 11 Level 1 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge Feat: (Selected) Power Attack Level 2 (Monk) Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist Level 3 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Cleave Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light Level 4 (Monk) Level 5 (Monk) Level 6 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting Level 7 (Monk) Level 8 (Monk) Level 9 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting Level 10 (Monk) Level 11 (Monk) Level 12 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons Level 13 (Monk) Level 14 (Monk) Level 15 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting Level 16 (Monk) Level 17 (Monk) Level 18 (Monk) Feat: (Selected) Mobility Level 19 (Monk) Level 20 (Monk) Level 21 (Epic) Feat: (Selected) Epic: Vorpal Strikes Level 22 (Epic) Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1) Enhancement: Elf - Elven Dexterity (Rank 1) Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1) Enhancement: Elf - Elven Dexterity (Rank 1) Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Riddle of Fire (Rank 1) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Way of the Elegant Crane (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Shadow Veil (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 3) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Eagle Claw Attack (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 2) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 3) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Flash Bang (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Flash Bang (Rank 2) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Flash Bang (Rank 3) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - No Mercy (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - No Mercy (Rank 2) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - No Mercy (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Protection from Tainted Creatures (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Hand (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Argent Fist (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Touch of the Void Dragon (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - To Seek Perfection (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Ki Shout (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Fists of Iron (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Dismissing Strike (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Instinctive Defense (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Instinctive Defense (Rank 2) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Instinctive Defense (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Violence Begets Violence (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Meditation of War (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Empty Hand Mastery (Rank 1)

With the last 3 enhancement points left for Harper Agent.

Remember, this is just for me and my friend (2 people and 2 hirelings + 2 onyx panthers) to do adventures on and some challenges. Nothing too major like raids and such. I'm sure there might be some overlap, but I'm also thinking there's quite a bit of exclusive builds for raids to make certain things work. Could be wrong though, who knows..

So yeah, inputs? Again thank you all for writing here, I appreciate any bit of help I can get.

---Edit---

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesNiels

Hey.

The character planner has a little flaw in it which is that it adds the tome bonus selected completely, rather than adding 1 at lvl 3, 2 at lvl 7 and 3 at level 11 etc. Therefore u cannot take CE at lvl 1. While figuring out the feat leveling i encountered a little problem, ur basicly short 1 feat (improved critical) because i was either human or 2 fighter when i fitted in whirlwind attack but theres a workaround tho. Heres what u could do if u decide on going for whirlwind attack.

1. Power attack
1. MA) Dodge
2. MA) Stunning fist
3. Two weapon fighting
6. Mobility
6. MA) Spring attack
9. Improved two weapon fighting. (Requires 17 dex, 2 is max increase from tomes at this point so 15 base)
12. Combat expertise
15. Greater two weapon fighting
18. Whirlwind attack
21. Improved martial arts
24. Improved critical
27. Overwhelming critical/epic will/blinding speed

This might be suboptimal because ur losing ur sweet lvl 27 feat if u want the dps increase that overwhelming crit gives. OC gives a 10% increase in ur dps (on 0% fortification mobs) which is not bad. OC requires IC however which is only a 5% increase in dps which is not that good but still its dps. However the things ur gonna have trouble with is dps on stuff that cant be stunned (undead, ellies and constructs mostly). Which all have 100% fortification... personally im not sure yet what i would do because i def want my epic will/blinding speed and whirlwind attack. So i guess i would drop the OC and maybe IC too since its only 5% by itself. Also i didnt include vorpal strikes for 2 reasons: on mobs below 1k hp its not bad, to put it in perspective it 'adds' 25 damage per hit. (Average hp its gonna go off on: 1000/2 times chance 5%) however it does like ur stuns not work on pesky undead and ellies (tho they will be kindly requested to dismiss themselves), and depending on the difficulty u run on, mobs are gonna have more to loads more hp than 1k. Which brings me to how it acts on mobs with over 1k hp which is a bigger problem. As far as i can tell the vorpal hits do 100 untyped damage but ur weapon effects and sneak damage wont proc (correct me if im wrong cuz not sure) which means it is actually a decrease in dps. Especially as ur damage goes up. Or even worse: while blitzing (more true for old blitz). And i will spare u the rant i had planned for the uselessness of the dr/slashing bypass.

Considering cleave and great cleave it would look something like:
1. Stunning fist
1. MA) Deflect arrows
2. MA) power attack
3. Cleave
6. Great cleave
6. MA. Two weapon fighting.
9. Improved two weapon fighting.
12. Uhmmmm. Dodge/whatever
15. Greater two weapon fighting
18. Improved critical.
21. Improved martial arts.
24. OC.
27. Awesomeness in the form of epic will or blinding speed.

Posting this for now will edit later as im typing on mobile and cant google without loosing this cant hit planner or game atm.

Yeah getting Whirlwind attack as an elf is problematic since I essentially lose out on at least one major feat. So I think I'm gonna go for 2xCleave

I'm guessing with the uselessness of slashing bypass you mean using blunt weapons won't mean anything really unless you're fighting Zombies or the like?

Also what is Blitzing?

If you replace the mobility with dodge arrows and the vorpal strikes with improved martial arts in the above build in this post, will it be okay you think? Or would replacing 2% chance to hit and 1 dex be worth getting 1 more Wisdom and 1 more enhancement point for whatever? (Possibly 1 concentration and fort save and +5 health)

Thank you for taking your time to help me with all this, really appreciate it.
10-20-2014, 12:35 PM
Braegan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynix

I would really prefer to not True Reincarnating, as I'd like to continue playing with my friend for now. The only reason we got back into the game was because he hadn't done any of the Eveningstar stuff and wanted to do it as he just hit lvl 20. Also I'm currently an F2P'er, so I have next to no dungeons unlocked, which would mean I would have to grind the same dungeon (or challenge) over and over again for 20 levels, which would be a bit boring. I might do it later once I'm a VIP again, but for now I'd rather stick to just Lesser Reincarnations.

And thank you for being honest. I'd rather know that it sucks than think I've got something that works and then waste another Heart of Wood.

What questionable skills would you say I have? Looking aside from the half a point of UMD, I took the ones the basic monk guide posted earlier suggested and put points into Balance since I really don't like being knocked down.

Switching Combat Expertise and Two Weapon Fighting in Lvl 1 and 3 would be possible while granting the same result, wouldn't it? Also why can't I get Greater Two Weapon Fighting with a +3 tome? I put an extra point into Dex at lvl 12 so I got to 17 with the +3 tome.

I guess I can see how no precision or power attack can be bad though, not sure what to throw away though. There's nothing as far as I can see that will allow me to get either without losing either Whirlwind Attack or Greater Two Weapon Fighting. (or vorpal strikes)

Like I said earlier. I'd probably TR if it wasn't because I'm planning on playing with my friend now, and I'm an F2P with no dungeon packs, so I'd have to grind out the same dungeons over and over as far as I'm aware.

Thank you all for the responses.

Ah, I can see your hesitation to TR then.

For skills I saw ranks in Repair, Spellcraft, Search. I see those are not chosen in other posts so maybe you just misclicked? In any event, I like to go max Concentration, UMD and some ranks in Balance, Hide, Move Silently, Tumble. Spot/Listen and Jump/Swim if you got spare points are ok, but nothing critical to have.

Combat Expertise has a 13 int req. So you would have to take it after your +3 tome kicks in at level 11 if you start with a 10 int. I didn't see any level ups chosen, but you are correct if you put a level up point into dex that would be enough to qualify for GTWF. However, trying to swap TWF won't go into a level 1 feat as you will not have 15 dex at level one.

My advice is to really dump Whirlwind attack. It's eating into your starting stats (which you don't have enough to spare), eating into your feats (causing you to neglect other DPS feats), and is requiring a mad juggle of what to choose when because you are heavily dependent on tomes kicking in and level ups to qualify for feats to begin with.

I'd recommend this:

str) 15
dex) 14
con) 12
int) 8
wis) 16 <- all level ups here
cha) 8

You lose 1 DC off monk goodness but boost str some (you are a melee class) and boost con some (you are a melee class - you will be in range of incoming attack a lot).

For feats:

1) Power Attack
M1) Stunning Fist
M2) Dodge
3) TWF
6) Cleave
M6) Mobility
9) Great Cleave
12) ITWF
15) IC: Blud
18) GTWF
21) Vorpal Strikes
24) Imp Martial Arts
27) Overwhelming Crit
26ED) Tactics
28ED) PTWF (Take Toughness as filler feat until you have PTWF unlocked from Fury)

Hope that helps.
10-20-2014, 02:13 PM
unbongwah

+3 tomes can't be used until lvl 11; this will screw up your feat progression. Whirlwind Atk is rarely if ever worth the feat cost; the PA/CL/GC chain is a better ROI. Elves are suboptimal as monks, but one perk if you choose is Shadow DM for Displacement; only drawback is it costs a feat and 12 APs. I always put at least 6 build pts into CON; more than that is a luxury, esp. on a 28-pt build, but desirable if you can manage it.
10-20-2014, 03:43 PM
Munkenmo

The last change I'd make to your build : Drop Mobility, Pick up Deflect Arrows.

You're primarily playing in epic levels right? You'll have access to

+6 dodge from monk levels
+3 dodge from dodge feat
+1 dodge from haste
+10 dodge from items
+3 dodge from ninja spy
+3 dodge from ED
_____
26 dodge.

Mobility will allow you to hit 28 dodge, but deflect arrows is surprisingly useful in higher level content, probably enough to be worth more than +2 dodge. If you try deflect arrows out, I doubt you'd be disappointed.

1) Power Attack
M1) Stunning Fist
M2) Dodge
3) TWF
6) Cleave
M6) Deflect Arrows
9) Great Cleave
12) ITWF
15) IC: Blud
18) GTWF
21) Vorpal Strikes
24) Overwhelming Crit
26ED) Tactics
27) Imp Martial Arts (Or Blinding speed if you don't have a good Speed item)
28ED) PTWF

re: Skills in order of priority (imo):

1 Tumble > UMD > Concentration > Heal (it's great for rejuv cocoon, and to a lesser degree rest shrines) > Spot (I hate invis mobs) > Search (stupid secret dooors) > stealth skills.
10-20-2014, 04:11 PM
Lynix

Quote:

Originally Posted by unbongwah

+3 tomes can't be used until lvl 11; this will screw up your feat progression. Whirlwind Atk is rarely if ever worth the feat cost; the PA/CL/GC chain is a better ROI. Elves are suboptimal as monks, but one perk if you choose is Shadow DM for Displacement; only drawback is it costs a feat and 12 APs. I always put at least 6 build pts into CON; more than that is a luxury, esp. on a 28-pt build, but desirable if you can manage it.

Good catch. That does leave me short a few points of my previous builds in terms of skills, but it's not too bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fTdOmen

The last change I'd make to your build : Drop Mobility, Pick up Deflect Arrows.

You're primarily playing in epic levels right? You'll have access to

+6 dodge from monk levels
+3 dodge from dodge feat
+1 dodge from haste
+10 dodge from items
+3 dodge from ninja spy
+3 dodge from ED
_____
26 dodge.

Mobility will allow you to hit 28 dodge, but deflect arrows is surprisingly useful in higher level content, probably enough to be worth more than +2 dodge. If you try deflect arrows out, I doubt you'd be disappointed.

1) Power Attack
M1) Stunning Fist
M2) Dodge
3) TWF
6) Cleave
M6) Deflect Arrows
9) Great Cleave
12) ITWF
15) IC: Blud
18) GTWF
21) Vorpal Strikes
24) Overwhelming Crit
26ED) Tactics
27) Imp Martial Arts (Or Blinding speed if you don't have a good Speed item)
28ED) PTWF

re: Skills in order of priority (imo):

1 Tumble > UMD > Concentration > Heal (it's great for rejuv cocoon, and to a lesser degree rest shrines) > Spot (I hate invis mobs) > Search (stupid secret dooors) > stealth skills.

Is search worth it when I've got Teraza's Sight in my inventory? Also I'd think balance was important no? I really, really, don't like being knocked down.

I gotta be honest, I don't see the use of sneak skills if me and my friend are just going to be blazing through most of the dungeons head first anyways. Even as a Ninja Spy I forgot to use sneak most of the time and since I was doing more damage /threat, I had aggro most of the time anyways, so I only felt like I was getting in one sneak attack. (Unless the invisibility from Drow Piwafwi makes my attacks count as sneak attacks?)

Anyway, I think I'll do what you suggested here and go with that build.

Thank you ALL for helping me out here, I really appreciate it. Even though I'm a pretty avid MMO'er myself, I love DDO since I can still get lost in the depth of it all.
10-20-2014, 04:31 PM
unbongwah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynix

Is search worth it when I've got Teraza's Sight in my inventory?

Turbine reworked how Detect Secret Doors and True Seeing work a while ago. DSD at CL:10 will only find secret doors of DC 20 or less; True Seeing will only find secret doors with DC of 30 or less, which is insufficient at higher levels.
10-20-2014, 04:54 PM
Munkenmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynix

(Unless the invisibility from Drow Piwafwi makes my attacks count as sneak attacks?)

Anyway, I think I'll do what you suggested here and go with that build.

Thank you ALL for helping me out here, I really appreciate it. Even though I'm a pretty avid MMO'er myself, I love DDO since I can still get lost in the depth of it all.

Invisibility guard will let you get sneak attacks. Deception is another ability that will let you get sneak attacks even when you have agro, I'd recommend

Golden Guile Easy to obtain (chest just before the first shrine in Lords of Dust)
Backstabbers Gloves (Difficult to acquire, end of crucible, but they're what I still have equipped at level 28)
Seal of House Avithoul (Fairly easy to farm, if you know your way round the quest, but if you've got golden guile I wouldn't bother)

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page