Three tiny changes.

Named gear should be better than random gear. It should be and needs to be but often it is not. Some of the named gear in DDO needs to be improved and here are three examples:

A few weeks ago I decided to upgrade my L16 Ranger's unnamed L12 Paragon bow because it was starting to take too many hits to stop mobs. Purchased Attack on Stormreach to try and get the Petryfying War Bow only to discover that it was mandatory to complete a chaotic evil quest to obtain the required Stonedust Handwraps. My Lawful good character cannot assassinate any creature to frame an ambassador so the bow is unattainable for me. Even if I could get it, the bow is still only 1d8 and not comparable to many bows of similar level. The Gnollish War Bow needs to be at least 1.50 [1d8] and there needs to be a non-chaotic non-evil way to obtain all the necessary ingredients to make the Petryfying version. Since obtaining a better bow for my Ranger was the main reason for buying the pack the purchase was not a good value for the money. The quests were enjoyable but my character increased in level and his unimproved gear fell even further behind.

Also purchased Reavers Refuge to try and improve my armour over the unnamed leather that I found in a chest a while ago and still wear. After spending a great many hours unlocking the final quest and racing through it I finally had the armour. Then, when I went to upgrade the item with a rune of Deathward, I disovered that it added Deathblock [0] and not Deathward as indicated. My current +3 Flurry Feycraft Leather of Deathblock III already has better enchantments. The Dragontouched armour is no better than the random loot I can already find! Named items should always be a little bit better than random items. Dragontouched armour needs improving at least as far as making its Deathward rune actually add Deathward and not Deathblock [0]. Then buying Reavers Reach would make more sense.

Since the Petryfying War Bow was not an option I then spent several days and about forty passes doing Cannith challenges to obtain the Elemental Longbow of Earth. Only to find that the L12 and L16 bows were never upgraded to 1.50 [1d8] and the Stone Prison seems to rarely trigger. The L20 version of the bow is 2 [1d8] but the mid-level ones are still only 1d8. My L10 1.50 [1d8] Bow of the Elements (Air) works much better than the Earth bow does. Repeating the challenges all those times to obtain the new bow was time misspent. The L12 and L16 versions of the bow need to be at least 1.50 [1d8] and the protection needs to be changed to DR X /- like an Earth Elemental and not acid !? My Ranger levelled again but is still forced to use the same bow as he has been using since level 12.

Fixing these items should not be difficult because it doesn't require any new coding. All that is needed is a few tweaks since the necessary procedures already exist within the game.

Obtaining gear is a major part of DDO so the gear needs to be worth getting expecially if it involves purchasing a pack. A few tiny changes should dramatically improve the game experience for many, if not most, newcomers and encourage them to make future purchases.

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Originally Posted by Waaye

.......................... Purchased Attack on Stormreach to try and get the Petryfying War Bow only to discover that it was mandatory to complete a chaotic evil quest to obtain the required Stonedust Handwraps. My Lawful good character cannot assassinate any creature to frame an ambassador so the bow is unattainable for me. .................................
Since the Petryfying War Bow was not an option I then spent several days and about forty passes doing Cannith challenges to obtain the Elemental Longbow of Earth. Only to find that the L12 and L16 bows were never upgraded to 1.50 [1d8] and the Stone Prison seems to rarely trigger. The L20 version of the bow is 2 [1d8] but the mid-level ones are still only 1d8. My L10 1.50 [1d8] Bow of the Elements (Air) works much better than the Earth bow does. Repeating the challenges all those times to obtain the new bow was time misspent. The L12 and L16 versions of the bow need to be at least 1.50 [1d8] and the protection needs to be changed to DR X /- like an Earth Elemental.......

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Okay, so how would you reccomend changing the petrifying war bow to be less evil? I'm assuming you're deathly afraid of green-steel since that's what the devils use. All in all though, i mostly agree (sans evil weapon.... what? it's a medusa...)

All in all, while the way you want to play is great, it's not worth going onto the forums to whine about the method of receiving something as evil.

Then again, i'm probably not the guy to ask, since i carry around +5 unholy cold iron of chaotic outsider bane weapons on my paladin...

If you want to role-play that way, that's your business, but it's not particularly relevant to balancing gear since it's not in any way enforced or even suggested by the game.

As for bows in that level range, have you considered the Bow of Sinew? It's still only 1d8 base, but the crits are absurdly good.

Your basic complaint is quite valid, though, there are a lot of named items that missed out on updates or are otherwise not useful.

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Originally Posted by Waaye

Purchased Attack on Stormreach to try and get the Petryfying War Bow only to discover that it was mandatory to complete a chaotic evil quest to obtain the required Stonedust Handwraps. My Lawful good character cannot assassinate any creature to frame an ambassador so the bow is unattainable for me.

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Did you also refuse to play Gianthold? I ask because the intensely dishonest nature of those quests bothered me... and I was only a Cleric, not a Paladin.

Appreciate, even applaud the hardcore RP involved here* but... meh. Quicker, easier, more seductive the dark side it. And it has better loot. And cookies.

But I agree with your general points about named loot improvements.


*Warning - there are going to be a LOT of quests you cannot complete. Many of the quests ARE outright evil (by FR standards, Eberron is more shades of grey which is why I prefer it) and makes a mockery of the fact you can't even play a neutral evil alignment. Not that I'm in favour of players having evil alignments, mark you, I'm just saying the goals/explanations/background for some of the quests does not lend itself well to 'good' characters. I suggest you roll yourself up a true neutral as soon as possible unless you want to be running into this problem a lot.

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Originally Posted by Douglas21

[...] enforced or even suggested by the game.

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Which game, Douglas21?

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Originally Posted by Douglas21

As for bows in that level range, have you considered the Bow of Sinew? It's still only 1d8 base, but the crits are absurdly good.

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Yes, I did consider it but I'm a Premium player with limited funds and must choose the expansions I buy wisely. My L16 character has a good L12 bow but I noticed in recent quests that the mobs are regularly getting by my healer hireling and summoned mini-tankette cat. Some of them dispell the cat, stun the healer and then flatten my squishy Ranger before he can bow them down [mow them down with arrows].

When I looked at a gameplay video of "Harbinger of Madness" I noticed a lot of nasty creatures like Mind Flayers and Beholders. The "Attack on Stormreach" gameplay looked to be simpler to do without a lot of expensive gold seal hirelings so I chose that pack instead. [Finishing Reaver's took two gold seals and one of them is still at the bottom of a lava pool somewhere in there.] Sadly it was not until I obtained the War Bow that I came to understand there was no way to craft the Petrifying version without committing murder so I moved on to the Cannith challenges. It should not be too hard to make Stonedust Handwraps available from other non-murder quests in the "Attack on Stormreach" series.

After doing Cannith challenges until I obtained the Earth bow and upgraded it to Tier 2, I then tested it. It was very obvious that my L10 Bow of the Elements (Air) generally outperformed the L16 Tier 2 Earth bow and I was disappointed. The L20 Earth bow looks to be better with 2 [1d8] so I may be able to upgrade and use my newest bow when, and if, I reach L20.

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Originally Posted by Douglas21

Your basic complaint is quite valid, though, there are a lot of named items that missed out on updates or are otherwise not useful.

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It is not a complaint but suggestions. Tiny changes to these items would make a huge difference to newcomers who do not have access to Green Steel items and such. It would be better to make the tiny changes now rather than wait for major revisions of the quests later. Make the Gnollish Bow 1.50 [1d8] right now and give a murder-free source of ingredients. Make the L12 and L16 Earth bows 1.50 [1d8] right now so they are similar to other level 12 and 16 bows.

And consider the Dragontouched armour. Nobody wants it any more and almost nobody buys the pack. Alter one rune to make it actually do what it says it will do and Reavers Reach instantly becomes one of the best packs. With one small change Dragontouched armour would become the only source of continuous Deathward in the game and finally be a fitting gift from a grateful dragon. One tiny tweak to one little rune is all it would take to make the armor worth getting and the pack worth buying again.

A few improvements like these and the game might attract enough newcomers to make slow-play normal-difficulty LFMs common once more. They might even stick around long enough to spend a little real money buying Adventure Packs.

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Originally Posted by Waaye

Purchased Attack on Stormreach to try and get the Petryfying War Bow only to discover that it was mandatory to complete a chaotic evil quest to obtain the required Stonedust Handwraps. My Lawful good character cannot assassinate any creature to frame an ambassador so the bow is unattainable for me.

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I think it could be said that trying to prevent an invasion could be a good thing to do. So, that brings us to, maybe chaotic good or neutral good.

But, if your Ranger's sense of justice (or the wishes of the officials in Stormreach) were your sense of duty, then following the orders could be lawful.

As another one of the posters around here has said, "Lawful Good does not always equate to Lawful Nice."

There are a lot of military people that kill a lot of other people in this world. I don't personally agree with their actions, but I can follow the line of thought that what they are doing is Lawful, as their government told them to do it.

Remember: roleplaying is based on the perspective of the character. You can have two lawful good people that want to destroy each other, because their individual views of right and wrong are different, though they are following their perspective of "The Right Thing To Do" to the T. In real life, I try to be as close to Lawful Good as I can be. I try to follow the laws, and I try to help people and Do The Right Thing. But I have to admit, there are a lot of other people who are also trying to follow their laws and try to help people and try to Do The Right Thing who think I'm completely wrong in all of my beliefs.

That rationalization doesn't work in all quests, but in this one, I think it can.

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Originally Posted by LuKaSu

There are a lot of military people that kill a lot of other people in this world.

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The problem with the Minotaur town quest isn't that you're killing them, but that you are killing them in an unfair surprise attack and then framing someone else for it.

The proper Paladin-style way to deal with the Medusa Hesstess would be to walk up and challenge her to battle.

The very best heroic bow in the game is Unwavering Ardency out of the Abbot raid. However, the Elemental Longbow of Earth isn't bad, and it's much easier to get.

Also, you don't HAVE to do a sneak attack on Frame Work, you can just charge in and kill everything the usual way. You "frame" the Medusa because otherwise the minotaur nation will probably attack Stormreach. (That, and it's about the most unsubtle frame job in the history of the universe.) You do get to confront Hestess head on, you just have to get her armies out of the way first.

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Originally Posted by Scrabbler

The problem with the Minotaur town quest isn't that you're killing them, but that you are killing them in an unfair surprise attack and then framing someone else for it.

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Exactly right, Scrabbler, and that is why my lawful good character abandoned the quest right after the requirements were stated. There is a difference between war and murder.

An even bigger problem with the quest is that a lawful and/or good character can complete the quest without repercussions. This differs substantially from 40 years of established D&D gameplay. The new alignment system is a little confusing sometimes but the original "Law, Neutrality, or Chaos" system was clear about performing chaotic or evil acts. From "Men and Magic" page 7, "Note that Clerics of 7th level and greater are either "Law" or "Chaos" and there is a sharp distinction between them. If a Patriarch receiving the above benefits changes sides, all the benefits will immediately be removed!"

Completing "Frame Work" should instantly cause a character's alignment to change "sides" to chaotic evil, if it was something else before. If it did change then "all the benefits" of the previous alignment should "immediately be removed". At least that has been the way of the game for the last forty years or so.

It was obvious that "Frame Work" was a quest my Ranger could not complete so I skipped it. That was not a problem at the time but became troublesome later. The Petrifying war Bow requires Stonedust Handwraps to make. The Handwraps can only be found in "Eyes of Stone" and that quest can only be started after completing "Frame Work". Currently, there is no other way to get the Petrifying Warbow except by murdering the Minotaur Chieftan and framing the ambassador by turning an innocent into stone.

This annoying linearity can be easily fixed by making Stonedust Handwraps available in other quests in the series. The bow also needs to be upgraded to 1.50 [1d8] to be useful at levels 12 and up. If the bow and requirements are corrected then more people are likely to buy the pack.

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Originally Posted by Waaye

Completing "Frame Work" should instantly cause a character's alignment to change "sides" to chaotic evil, if it was something else before.

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Doing some dishonest things to a bunch of aggressive Chaotic Evil monsters would not cause anyone to cease being Lawful or Good. It would break the Paladin code of conduct, transforming your character into a Fighter with no bonus feats.

To really change someone's alignment to evil would take a quest such as Purge The Heretics. Anyway, the real in-character solution to that whole Attack On Stormreach situation would just be to spot the enemy army on their landing beach and go down to face them, right in the first quest.

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Currently, there is no other way to get the Petrifying Warbow except by murdering the Minotaur Chieftan and framing the ambassador by turning an innocent into stone.

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Do you have Silver Longbow and / or Sinew?

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Originally Posted by LuKaSu

I think it could be said that trying to prevent an invasion could be a good thing to do. So, that brings us to, maybe chaotic good or neutral good.

But, if your Ranger's sense of justice (or the wishes of the officials in Stormreach) were your sense of duty, then following the orders could be lawful.

As another one of the posters around here has said, "Lawful Good does not always equate to Lawful Nice."

There are a lot of military people that kill a lot of other people in this world. I don't personally agree with their actions, but I can follow the line of thought that what they are doing is Lawful, as their government told them to do it.

Remember: roleplaying is based on the perspective of the character. You can have two lawful good people that want to destroy each other, because their individual views of right and wrong are different, though they are following their perspective of "The Right Thing To Do" to the T. In real life, I try to be as close to Lawful Good as I can be. I try to follow the laws, and I try to help people and Do The Right Thing. But I have to admit, there are a lot of other people who are also trying to follow their laws and try to help people and try to Do The Right Thing who think I'm completely wrong in all of my beliefs.

That rationalization doesn't work in all quests, but in this one, I think it can.

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Guys, I found the bard!

As for your search for loot, I recommend this link: http://itemwiki.cubicleninja.com/Default.aspx

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Originally Posted by Scrabbler

The problem with the Minotaur town quest isn't that you're killing them, but that you are killing them in an unfair surprise attack and then framing someone else for it.

The proper Paladin-style way to deal with the Medusa Hesstess would be to walk up and challenge her to battle.

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I thought the OP was talking about the Minotaurs at first but no!

The Stonedust Handwraps drop in Eyes of Stone and here we have a Lawful Good Paladin refusing to "Murder" a Chaotic Evil Aberration!

WHAT?!?

Me thinks the OP doesn't realise that his Paladin would be stripped of his powers for such a refusal!

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Originally Posted by Waaye

Exactly right, Scrabbler, and that is why my lawful good character abandoned the quest right after the requirements were stated. There is a difference between war and murder.

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Then turn it into war. Problem solved.

The actual requirements of the quest are a) kill the chieftain and b) turn one minotaur to stone. Assassinating the chieftain is merely a suggested tactic, it is an entirely valid choice (and even one supported by optional objectives) to openly walk in through the front gate and wage a full frontal assault on the entire fortress. And if you're declaring full up war like that anyway (they are enemies who would otherwise attack you first, after all, and they do attack you on sight just for showing up), is stoning one really worse than killing him? As for the framing aspect, if you go this route I'd consider it just a gesture to fulfill the letter of the agreement so the Coin Lords can't site it as a reason to stiff you. If you're that blatant about it someone's going to get the real word out regardless, and intimidation by the strength of your preemptive strike will take the place of any distrust that would have been fostered by the frame job.

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Originally Posted by FranOhmsford

I thought the OP was talking about the Minotaurs at first but no!

The Stonedust Handwraps drop in Eyes of Stone and here we have a Lawful Good Paladin refusing to "Murder" a Chaotic Evil Aberration!

WHAT?!?

Me thinks the OP doesn't realise that his Paladin would be stripped of his powers for such a refusal!

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I expect he'd have no problem at all with Eyes of Stone on its own, but you can't get that quest without first completing Frame Work.

Yeah, just because you want to roleplay your pally as Lawful Stupid (or Stupid Good; apologies, but its a very un-nuanced approach to alignment) doesn't mean the game has to accommodate you. And named gear doesn't have to universally be better than lootgen - a lot of named gear is much easier to acquire than trying to get a good roll of lootgen, after all. If you could just run Lordsmarch 2-3 times and get the best bow at-level, then why have lootgen drop at all? Just to vendor it? Why not just cut the middleman and just have everything drop straight plat, save the inventory space?

That being said, you can craft yourself a decent Paragon-level bow if you grind up your Cannith Crafting, so that's always an option: a +5 Acid of Bleed with a Red augment slot will be ML16, have the Paragon damage profile, and give you decent DPS comparable to at-level named weapons. If you Master Craft it, you can even bump Bleed up to Pure Good and keep it ML16.

Finally - DDO wiki is your friend. There's no reason you should EVER grind out any item or buy any pack without doing your homework first to make sure its actually what you think it is. You could have saved yourself a lot of consternation simply by going there to see what the Bow of Earth's damage profile was, or what the quests required you to do in Attack on Stormreach, etc.

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Originally Posted by Douglas21

Then turn it into war. Problem solved.

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My solution to the problem was to abandon the quest but why is almost every poster talking about the morality of the quest when the thread is about suggested ways to improve gear?

A paladin would simply not do it Dorris' way, and would kick in the front door and kill everything that stood in his way. Which btw will also complete the quest. You do still have to use the wand...

These aren't 'good' minotaurs minding their own business, they are being recruited to attack and conquer Stormreach.

As for the bow, why would a paladin use a cowards weapon?

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Originally Posted by Waaye

My solution to the problem was to abandon the quest

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That doesn't give you access to the Stonedust Wraps, so no it is not actually a solution to the problem in question.

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Originally Posted by Waaye

but why is almost every poster talking about the morality of the quest when the thread is about suggested ways to improve gear?

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Because a major part of what you complained about, which you put a lot of emphasis on, is a self-imposed handicap that most of us think is a) silly or based on reasons that can easily be worked around and b) completely unrelated to the problem of gear quality.

Ummm, roll up a Chaotic Neutral character and have them get the handwraps for your Ranger?

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Originally Posted by Waaye

Named gear should be better than random gear. It should be and needs to be but often it is not. Some of the named gear in DDO needs to be improved and here are three examples:

A few weeks ago I decided to upgrade my L16 Ranger's unnamed L12 Paragon bow because it was starting to take too many hits to stop mobs. Purchased Attack on Stormreach to try and get the Petryfying War Bow only to discover that it was mandatory to complete a chaotic evil quest to obtain the required Stonedust Handwraps. My Lawful good character cannot assassinate any creature to frame an ambassador so the bow is unattainable for me. Even if I could get it, the bow is still only 1d8 and not comparable to many bows of similar level. The Gnollish War Bow needs to be at least 1.50 [1d8] and there needs to be a non-chaotic non-evil way to obtain all the necessary ingredients to make the Petryfying version. Since obtaining a better bow for my Ranger was the main reason for buying the pack the purchase was not a good value for the money. The quests were enjoyable but my character increased in level and his unimproved gear fell even further behind.

Also purchased Reavers Refuge to try and improve my armour over the unnamed leather that I found in a chest a while ago and still wear. After spending a great many hours unlocking the final quest and racing through it I finally had the armour. Then, when I went to upgrade the item with a rune of Deathward, I disovered that it added Deathblock [0] and not Deathward as indicated. My current +3 Flurry Feycraft Leather of Deathblock III already has better enchantments. The Dragontouched armour is no better than the random loot I can already find! Named items should always be a little bit better than random items. Dragontouched armour needs improving at least as far as making its Deathward rune actually add Deathward and not Deathblock [0]. Then buying Reavers Reach would make more sense.

Since the Petryfying War Bow was not an option I then spent several days and about forty passes doing Cannith challenges to obtain the Elemental Longbow of Earth. Only to find that the L12 and L16 bows were never upgraded to 1.50 [1d8] and the Stone Prison seems to rarely trigger. The L20 version of the bow is 2 [1d8] but the mid-level ones are still only 1d8. My L10 1.50 [1d8] Bow of the Elements (Air) works much better than the Earth bow does. Repeating the challenges all those times to obtain the new bow was time misspent. The L12 and L16 versions of the bow need to be at least 1.50 [1d8] and the protection needs to be changed to DR X /- like an Earth Elemental and not acid !? My Ranger levelled again but is still forced to use the same bow as he has been using since level 12.

Fixing these items should not be difficult because it doesn't require any new coding. All that is needed is a few tweaks since the necessary procedures already exist within the game.

Obtaining gear is a major part of DDO so the gear needs to be worth getting expecially if it involves purchasing a pack. A few tiny changes should dramatically improve the game experience for many, if not most, newcomers and encourage them to make future purchases.

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I agree that some of the Paragon level name weapons need to be updated to have 1.5[w]

Look up Silver Bow and Bow of Sinew. There crit profile is what makes them great.

Dragontouched armor has some very good options for L16 Healing amp 10%, Healing amp 20%, and Devotion 82 is a good armor and works very well on a Ranger, So is Protection +5, Resistance +5, Dodge 6%. There are options just farm casual Pray on the hunter a until you get what you want. (every 3 runs is a sovereign rune which you can shatter down and get eldritch runs from).