Compared to other MMOs, in what ways does DDO look and feel dated?

I was reading a review of MoTU the other day and it said something about certain graphics effects looking dated.

Also... our enhancement points.. mind you we're about to get a pass on those (when did MF say? it was sometime soon) ... so I hope the interface looks a bit nicer as per the EDs. The EDs look nice and a laid out fairly well (maybe a few rough edges).

We've just had an icon pass which has been awesome (although I still don't understand all the coloured lines... and keep thinking that something is not equipable when actually it's some other random state like epic).

Someone has just raised the topic of how our chat channels work - which has got me wondering how other MMOs do this. I have watched over friend's shoulder's with SOTR etc but will ask a few more questions.

In what other ways, if you were introducing a friend who plays other MMOs to DDO today would you find yourself wanting to explain little bits of the interface quaintness?

Quests in DDO are too complicated. :mad:

In other MMOs it is simple:
- first you walk 20 meters away from the city then "kill 10 small spiders"
- then "kill 10 spiders"
- "kill 11 crawling spiders"
- "kill 12 enraged spiders"
- "kill 13 mutant spiders"
- "kill 14 magic spiders"
- "kill spider queen"
And move on to the next species. :)

No, DDO is way ahead of other MMOs. You measure that distance in light years. :eek:

And I'm not mentioning the fact that there is NO STRUCTURE in DDO: you are given the choice of how you want to build your character, your ability points are not spent automatically, you can choose up to 3 classes. :confused:

Oh and did I mention the fact that it's based on DnD? DnD is like one of the worst games ever to be played with your friends and family. :(

DDO would be a better game if we could just all be the same class and race: Gelatinous Cube Warrior, with no level progression and all we have to do is eat Twilight vampires and Teen Wolf werewolves all day.

OK, well here is a couple:

1. Hot bars that re-size themselves to be smaller, gradually getting smaller and smaller and harder to use. This is really "dated" and should be fixed.

2. FVS aura black fog and "whomp whomp" sound on mobs, both alive and dead mind you. This one is a really bad design. We don't need reminder of the aura 24/7, and especially on dead mobs.

3. NPCs that get stuck when you try to repeat a quest. Why does this still happen?

These are just a few off the top of my head. I consider the bugs to be the only thing that are dated, because any bug that has been around long enough to talk about for weeks, has been around way too long. Fix what's broken, when the designers and the dev team have nothing else to do because bugs are fixed, then review the "dated" look.

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Originally Posted by MeliCat

I was reading a review of MoTU the other day and it said something about certain graphics effects looking dated.

Also... our enhancement points.. mind you we're about to get a pass on those (when did MF say? it was sometime soon) ... so I hope the interface looks a bit nicer as per the EDs. The EDs look nice and a laid out fairly well (maybe a few rough edges).

We've just had an icon pass which has been awesome (although I still don't understand all the coloured lines... and keep thinking that something is not equipable when actually it's some other random state like epic).

Someone has just raised the topic of how our chat channels work - which has got me wondering how other MMOs do this. I have watched over friend's shoulder's with SOTR etc but will ask a few more questions.

In what other ways, if you were introducing a friend who plays other MMOs to DDO today would you find yourself wanting to explain little bits of the interface quaintness?

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The problem I think is that the avatars look dated compared to newer games out there. With some of the nice upgrades recently it's better. The lack of variety in looks gear (armor/shield/weapon) compounds the perception.

I used to read threads where players complained about everyone looking the same with dragontouched gear on. There were some funny screenshots with entire raid parties all looking exactly like each other. Good stuff...

They've done some nice things with purchasable outfits, but not so much with gear. Last cool hat I saw for purchase is like a year (?) old. Shield skins are tied to one item that not many players use. Many of the new armors have a really drab kinda look to them.

When players are playing other games where their avatars look like:

Halley Berry in a swimsuit scene - complete with changeable aesthetically pleasing outfits with good gear ratings.

Vin Disel tattooed and shirtless - with really *big* weapons.

etc, etc...

It takes some getting used to the art that comprises our avatars and their visible gear in this game. To this day many armors look silly on most races, but anything looks good on an elf or drow female lol. I think they need to let their graphic designers run wild for a bit. They might like the changes...

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Originally Posted by gerardIII

Quests in DDO are too complicated. :mad:

In other MMOs it is simple:
- first you walk 20 meters away from the city then "kill 10 small spiders"
- then "kill 10 spiders"
- "kill 11 crawling spiders"
- "kill 12 enraged spiders"
- "kill 13 mutant spiders"
- "kill 14 magic spiders"
- "kill spider queen"
And move on to the next species. :)

No, DDO is way ahead of other MMOs. You measure that distance in light years. :eek:

And I'm not mentioning the fact that there is NO STRUCTURE in DDO: you are given the choice of how you want to build your character, your ability points are not spent automatically, you can choose up to 3 classes. :confused:

Oh and did I mention the fact that it's based on DnD? DnD is like one of the worst games ever to be played with your friends and family. :(

DDO would be a better game if we could just all be the same class and race: Gelatinous Cube Warrior, with no level progression and all we have to do is eat Twilight vampires and Teen Wolf werewolves all day.

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Oh I love all this stuff about DDO! MAJOR selling point in my opinion.

Problem is people have to get past some of the bells and whistles though... And after reading that stupid review (there were plenty of dumb and incorrect things this 'reviewer' had writtten) it did make me wonder what a new person would see.

So mainly I am focusing on the UI - which is why I posted this thread here.

I agree with you that there is a steep learning curve - but that is another issue.

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Originally Posted by taurean430

The problem I think is that the avatars look dated compared to newer games out there. With some of the nice upgrades recently it's better. The lack of variety in looks gear (armor/shield/weapon) compounds the perception.

I used to read threads where players complained about everyone looking the same with dragontouched gear on. There were some funny screenshots with entire raid parties all looking exactly like each other. Good stuff...

They've done some nice things with purchasable outfits, but not so much with gear. Last cool hat I saw for purchase is like a year (?) old. Shield skins are tied to one item that not many players use. Many of the new armors have a really drab kinda look to them.

When players are playing other games where their avatars look like:

Halley Berry in a swimsuit scene - complete with changeable aesthetically pleasing outfits with good gear ratings.

Vin Disel tattooed and shirtless - with really *big* weapons.

etc, etc...

It takes some getting used to the art that comprises our avatars and their visible gear in this game. To this day many armors look silly on most races, but anything looks good on an elf or drow female lol. I think they need to let their graphic designers run wild for a bit. They might like the changes...

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So... how *big* are these *big* weapons?

o.O
O.o
o.O

Yeah good point on the avatars. I never really look at mine. But I guess if you look at the faces. And OH MY THE HELVES... oh yes... you are so right. Embarrassment factor right there.

And I guess I've never really thought about it but what about the character creation screen? Do you think that looks a bit dated too?

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Originally Posted by MeliCat

So... how *big* are these *big* weapons?

o.O
O.o
o.O

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*ducks*

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Yeah good point on the avatars. I never really look at mine. But I guess if you look at the faces. And OH MY THE HELVES... oh yes... you are so right. Embarrassment factor right there.

And I guess I've never really thought about it but what about the character creation screen? Do you think that looks a bit dated too?

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Yes.

It's the first thing they see. While I still believe it really helps with the immersion; newer, younger players appear to be looking for something bigger. Some of the projects/games being advertised lately appear to have capitalized on this. Their avatars look more powerful by comparison. The movements are more pronounced, and detailed all the way down to character idles. A korthos ember longsword equivalent looks more like DDO's rendering of an epic weapon. And it goes up from there.

What they can't beat is the combat system. I would say difficulty, but that is more subject to opinion. Needless to say I'm of the opinion that visual treats are good, but complexity is better. Seems like the graphic artists want to do more. I suspect they are limited by game engine capacity and budget restraints.

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Originally Posted by MeliCat

Oh I love all this stuff about DDO! MAJOR selling point in my opinion.

Problem is people have to get past some of the bells and whistles though... And after reading that stupid review (there were plenty of dumb and incorrect things this 'reviewer' had writtten) it did make me wonder what a new person would see.

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major /sarcasm check fail.

That post was obviously tongue in cheek.

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Originally Posted by psteen1

major /sarcasm check fail.

That post was obviously tongue in cheek.

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Whose? gerardIII's? Well the first part about collecting 10 this and collecting 10 that I would hope was tongue in cheek. Everything else to do with being heavily instanced, large selection of play, lots of stories that you have to piece together, lots of choice in building, etc I would hope were genuine selling points. They certainly are to me anyway. I can't see the point of travelling mindlessly for >10 minutes to get to where you want to go, simplistic collection quests and dumbed down character creation. I wouldn't play a game like thatn so I wouldn't recommend it to my friends.

But as I said I was focusing here, in this subforum, on just the visual appearance and game interface so most of that post was not on topic.

A lot of the textures, polygon count, progression, and general design of early-game dungeons reveal just how old the game is, but the dungeons get much more interesting in the higher levels.

To me, what is dated is the stuff players use between quests and not necessarily the quest graphics themselves. A lot of this stuff was 'ok' when the cap was 10, but given the growth and evolution of complication in the game, all of these features seem 'dated' to me:

1) Character Sheet, desperately needs an overhaul with more data, better visuals and outside game access;

2) Quest Journal and Quest Compendium; needs an overhaul, more data and user friendly. For example, please indicate which level of difficulties you have completed on your character and the number of runs you have made without having to type a command.

3) Auction House: love search, but better view functionality would be appreciated (let us re-size and list more items without having to page through 64 pages) and perhaps a visit to categorizing things - can we get a separate category for crafting items, please?

4) Perhaps better, updated animation sequences from NPCs in quest with more voice-overs. This gives even old quests a nice refresh, imo.

These are off the top of my head. :)

The utter lack of cosmetics such as visible cloaks, choosing what armor we want to show off, head gear, etc.

The fact we are stuck with uniquie character names. I'm sorry but if there wants to be 50 "john"s running around, why the heck can't there be? Using character names as unique identifiers is so 80s and backwards thinking rather than forward moving.

The lack of channel moderation is ridiculous. IRC has been around how many decades yet they can't mimic it at all? Is there some legalize blocking it?

The fact that /squelch only works on characters and not accounts, and that such /squelching does not stop invites or other actions.

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Originally Posted by Missing_Minds

The utter lack of cosmetics such as visible cloaks, choosing what armor we want to show off, head gear, etc.

The lack of channel moderation is ridiculous. IRC has been around how many decades yet they can't mimic it at all? Is there some legalize blocking it?

The fact that /squelch only works on characters and not accounts, and that such /squelching does not stop invites or other actions.

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I should roll FRAPS while showing our NWN customization script. That game was so much more primitive than the tech we have now and yet in some areas we did so much more with it.

The squelch thing is backward here. If someone gets on my nerves to the point where I feel they need to be squelched, allowing them to log on another toon and continue carrying on in the same fashion defeats the purpose. Even notifying them they are squelched defeats the purpose. Let them continue to think they are sending me tells for the next 2 hours while I completely ignore them. The squelch notification causes them to log on another toon and continue their antics.

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Originally Posted by Missing_Minds

The fact we are stuck with uniquie character names. I'm sorry but if there wants to be 50 "john"s running around, why the heck can't there be? Using character names as unique identifiers is so 80s and backwards thinking rather than forward moving.

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This is a tough one. How do you mail stuff to one of those 50 "johns" ?

My gear, cloaks, sheathed weapons, quiver, boots, bracers not appearing on my character is probably the biggest visual turn off for me. The underlying game mechanics and D&D rules are amazing, especially the combat, but the visual aspects really feel dated by comparison, even WoW allows us to see all the cool gear we have acquired on our characters.

One thing I dont get is that on the character creation screen, it shows characters with their weapons sheathed at their waist and on their backs but it is not possible in the game? Which is a shame.

The HUD isnt too bad actually. It could use a few tweeks here and there. I often feel there is too much excess art attached to it. Like the Inventory window or the collectibles bags. A lot of space is taken up with D&D style aesthetic border art. Would be much better if it was more streamlined and clearer, just the art that is needed for functionality.

I wouldnt say no to resizable hotbars either.

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Originally Posted by Chai

This is a tough one. How do you mail stuff to one of those 50 "johns" ?

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Via a unique "account" (not log in persay) name.

PSU had a unique number, and the way you mailed someone is that they had to be in your friend's list. Both people had to accept the other as being a friend before you could be added to the list. They called it a virtual card. VC.

Cryptic ala CO has a "global" name and "character" name. So when you "chatted" you'd see....
<character@global> Hi and welcome to this game. I'm new here blahblahblahblah...

So when you mailed it to the character, you had to do the full name. Now, if you had accepted each other into your friends list, the game would try to auto fill the name for you. Now granted in CO you coudn't have multi characters all named "john" Character names per account had to be unique.

So, honestly... really simple.

I don't think it 'looks' dated really. The graphics themselves aren't up to the same standard as a modern production but they aren't bad and I've seen newer games that look worse.

But it IS dated in it's featureset:

No UI scaling (LOTRO you can resize every single element of the UI independently, regardless of your base resolution). This is a really bad omission. Really bad.

Really awkward chat channels in my view. I much, much prefer the way WoW and other games do this: you type /p or /g or /say or /general or whatever and from then on that window always goes to that channel till you type /p or whatever to change again. I would love for them to bring that in as a selectable option in our UI (with the default set up being what it has always been because it's simply not fair to switch things around to new defaults when people have been using them for years. Options, not requirements, are the way forward here).

Lots of problems when holding multiple keys down, often not responding when you press, stuff like that.

No item preview before you equip. Is this neccesary? No. Is it desired by lots of people in other MMOs? Yes. So what's the harm?

Introductory tips and new player training - things have improved a lot over the last year or so, but it's still pretty bad. THere is no class specific training, there are no class quests where you would be forced to use one of your class' signature abilities, with the exception of stealthy repossession which could be claimed as a rogue quest if wizards weren't so much better at it. (edit, I'm aware thaat in a game with so much power in multiclassing this isn't really all that feasible. But it's there in other MMOs, so people expect it. But a few more at the lower levels like Stealthy Reposession where you can only really do it properly with all the bonuses if you have certain skillsets or abilities would not go amiss).

Really, total lack of RP support in the UI. This is an MMORPG. The letters RPG aren't there for the sake of it.

All of this stuff is bells and whistles really. But it can make all the difference to a new player getting a first impression, particularly when Turbine's other product LOTRO has more or less all of this down pat.

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Originally Posted by dunklezhan

Lots of problems when holding multiple keys down, often not responding when you press, stuff like that.

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That one could actually be hardware. There are some cheep keyboards out there that do a fast pol scan where keys pressed block other keys from being registered.

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Originally Posted by Missing_Minds

The utter lack of cosmetics such as visible cloaks, choosing what armor we want to show off, head gear, etc.

The fact we are stuck with uniquie character names. I'm sorry but if there wants to be 50 "john"s running around, why the heck can't there be? Using character names as unique identifiers is so 80s and backwards thinking rather than forward moving.

The lack of channel moderation is ridiculous. IRC has been around how many decades yet they can't mimic it at all? Is there some legalize blocking it?

The fact that /squelch only works on characters and not accounts, and that such /squelching does not stop invites or other actions.

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Oh, and all of this too, though I don't mind unique names. How would I be able to /tell without that?

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Originally Posted by dunklezhan

Oh, and all of this too, though I don't mind unique names. How would I be able to /tell without that?

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*points up at post #15*

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Originally Posted by Missing_Minds

*points up at post #15*

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But how many MORE Drizzt Do'Urden, Drizzt Do'Urrden, Drizzt Do'Urdden, and so on ad naseum do you want to see?

Honestly, I want to see stronger naming rules. Nothing more immersion killing then seeing the WIZ join your group with a name like XxXNecrokillerXxX followed up by the inevitable *ding* that follows.