deep splash discussion

pondering a TR of my capped cleric and i was looking for some imput.
i predominetly solo or run with people i know, so the PUG opinion of battle clerics means squat to me.
thinking of either 13 or 15 cleric levels. honeslty, at this point, i have no plan :)

got a Greenblade, Torc, Levik's Defender and a bauble on this toon.
also a mid level crafter (90~100)

1st question to ponder, how much cleric is enough?
13 cleric levels gets the max CL on Divine punishment and heal with Radiant servant 2 and access to all smiting enhancments
15 cleric levels gets you Deathwrd mass, Divine Might 3 and max CL on BB.

My capped toon has 9 turns with ship buffs. personally, i find that more than enough, so i'm disinclined to invest the required build points into charisma in order to simply access divine might.
since i mainly run small groups, mass DW is not a huge seller either.
then there is the small mater of the extra point in wisdom to access 8th level spells.
i like my BB as much as the next guy, but with the crappy wisdom score and terrable DC, it hardly seems like a worthwhile investment.

hmm, leaning rather strongly towards 13 levels of cleric

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Originally Posted by trog_star

hmm, leaning rather strongly towards 13 levels of cleric

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15 is not that compelling to me. If not getting level 17 for 9th level spells, 13 or 14 is probably a good place to stop, which still allows you 6 of another class for it's Tier 1 PrE. Note that in addition to a maximum Heal, 13 also gives you a much stronger healing aura than 12.

Also, personally, if I were splashing that deeply, I would not worry about either Blade Barrier or Divine Punishment, freeing up feats by not taking either Maximize or Empower. I did quite nicely without them on my 19/1 melee build, and as a 13/6/1 or something, you'll have even more melee DPS potential, and less SP to throw at spell DPS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trog_star

1st question to ponder, how muc
then there is the small mater of the extra point in wisdom to access 8th level spells.
i like my BB as much as the next guy, but with the crappy wisdom score and terrable DC, it hardly seems like a worthwhile investment.

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If you get to 15 to maximize the base dice on BB i wouldn't care too much about horrible saving throw as BB is still very effective even on WF FvS with 6 starting WIS (personal experience ;))

You can do it if you want. No one can stop you.

But personally I go with:
- Its easier to teach a Cleric to fight then it is to teach a Fighter to Impode things.
- Its a Bard! If you can't nuke/instakill, then you are a Bard. Maybe roll a Bard?

In my opinion, if you can't get much (or don't care) from Blade, Punisment, then roll a melee oriented Bard. I did it (Cleric that can heal, fight, but ignored casting) and Im not impressed. Would reincarnate, but it ain't cheap :(

Im not saying that you should make an Imploding machine, but atleast have a solid, workable dot and blades.

thanks so much for the imput guys :)

i can feel a crasy a$$ tanking cleric comeing on
thinking cleric/pally/fighter 13/6/1.

Radiant servent 2
Defender of Siberies 1
tower shield proficency and an extra feat
toss in the 2 tiers of Shield mastery with leviaks and we have serious active DR/ and serious hate being generaed by DP.
toss some intimi-tanking action in there for the heck of it.

pondering pondering

Recent discussion about a similar build: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=352925.

Conclusion is that a 12 cleric, 6 fighter, 2 monk could work as it gets you enough extra feats to have a full powered epic Chimaera's Fang which includes such interesting perks as +10 enhancement mod.

Another conclusion is that like many such builds (Tukaw for instance) it is heavily gear dependent.

Chears for the link wax :)

Indead any deeply splashed build like this is going to require an obscene amount of gear, just slotting the required lore(s) is going to be a chalange.
fortunetly aquireing the gear is a PITA, but not impossable.

i'm not convinced about the monk levels
as far as i can tell, there is only room in the build for 1 non-cleric/pally level.
your either sacraficeing DP dammage or the defender of sibries, neither propasition is exactly atractive.
I fail to see how monk can work in this build
that and ive got a Levik's Defender, by george am i going to use it :)
so regardless of the centering issue, i would be down a feat for the proficency.

speaking of feats, suppose i should start pondering what i want/need for the build.
Toughness is a must
Max and Empower for bursts and DP (how i love DP)
casting with agro and no quicken is just stupid
shield mastery is a must, advanced shield mastery would be nice.

hmmm, thats 6 feats :O
interesting......
only get 7 of the dam things stock, +1 for human and the fighter bonus brings it up to 9.
but thats still only 3 left.
2 if i go totally mad and make a WF

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trog_star

Chears for the link wax :)

Indead any deeply splashed build like this is going to require an obscene amount of gear, just slotting the required lore(s) is going to be a chalange.
fortunetly aquireing the gear is a PITA, but not impossable.

i'm not convinced about the monk levels
as far as i can tell, there is only room in the build for 1 non-cleric/pally level.
your either sacraficeing DP dammage or the defender of sibries, neither propasition is exactly atractive.
I fail to see how monk can work in this build
that and ive got a Levik's Defender, by george am i going to use it :)
so regardless of the centering issue, i would be down a feat for the proficency.

speaking of feats, suppose i should start pondering what i want/need for the build.
Toughness is a must
Max and Empower for bursts and DP (how i love DP)
casting with agro and no quicken is just stupid
shield mastery is a must, advanced shield mastery would be nice.

hmmm, thats 6 feats :O
interesting......
only get 7 of the dam things stock, +1 for human and the fighter bonus brings it up to 9.
but thats still only 3 left.
2 if i go totally mad and make a WF

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My last post suggests that the way to make this work is to go Stalwart Defender rather than Defender of Siberys. Picking up fighter gives you free Tower Shield Proficiency and a bunch of other free feats. With those free feats you can pick up sentinel dragonmarks which will let you get a fully powered epic chimaera's fang. This weapon in itself moves the build from flavour to kinda-sorta-viable. Besides the damage (which is considerabe) it is a great slot consolidator and a close to universal weapon.

Warforged is a bad bad idea, the only thing this build has going for it is the synergy between healing amp and healing aura. That precludes any race besides helf and human. Human is a superior choice for the extra feat and sentinel dragonmarks.

If you don't go 12 cleric / 6 fighter / 2 monk then you lose a feat for each level you do that is contrary to this. Human on this level split gives 14 feats. Here was more suggestion:
Metamagics: Empower Healing, Maximise, Quicken
Offensive: THF*3, PA, WF:S, WS:S
Defensive: Toughness, DMoS*3, Shield Mastery

The Sentinel Dragonmarks by themselves do (basically) nothing. However, combine then with an epic Chimaera's Fang and an epic Chimaera's Crown and the list of benefits spills off the page.

After that the optional feats are Weapon Focus: Slashing and Weapon Specialisation: Slashing. This +1 attack/+2 damage is nice but hardly crucial. They could be swapped for extend and another feat if desired.

Monk levels are only for 2 free feats, evasion, better saves, more HP (with tortoise philosophy), handwrap DPS vs 100% fort/slash resistant foes (liches/skeletons) etc.

But divine righteousness hate could be pretty important on a build like this. Will there be enough hate on the 6 ftr build to keep the full retards from pulling agro?

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Originally Posted by Meat-Head

But divine righteousness hate could be pretty important on a build like this. Will there be enough hate on the 6 ftr build to keep the full retards from pulling agro?

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Have a look at what a fully charged epic Chimaera's Fang gives and you will see that the answer is "hell yes". Among other things it consolidates all of your hate onto the weapon which frees up slots elsewhere (10/15/20).

the fang only increases melee hate.
it's a REALLY nice weapon, especally with an alchermical doublestrike offhand.
brings the melee far closer to legitamate than i had expected posable with sword and board

considering how much dmage a tripple stack of DP does, the 25% bonus spell/melee hate whilst sword and boarding from DoS is far from insignificant.
heck, if there isnt a dedicated hate tank in the party, my cleric pulls agro as it stands.

anyone know other methords of increaseing spell hate?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trog_star

the fang only increases melee hate.
it's a REALLY nice weapon, especally with an alchermical doublestrike offhand.
brings the melee far closer to legitamate than i had expected posable with sword and board

considering how much dmage a tripple stack of DP does, the 25% bonus spell/melee hate whilst sword and boarding from DoS is far from insignificant.
heck, if there isnt a dedicated hate tank in the party, my cleric pulls agro as it stands.

anyone know other methords of increaseing spell hate?

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Anathema item, there are a few around. I forgot about the alchemical shields, that's a great idea.

Edit: I'd actually say that the hate from all sources is a reason not to go DoS as it isn't very flexible and could cause issues if you are just healing and dotting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off

Anathema item, there are a few around. I forgot about the alchemical shields, that's a great idea.

Edit: I'd actually say that the hate from all sources is a reason not to go DoS as it isn't very flexible and could cause issues if you are just healing and dotting.

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chears for that :)

DoS hate can be mitigated by simply not haveing a shield equipped
thanks for bringing it up, i doubt i would have noticed the problem :)

this is stating to look more and more like the kind of build you make when youve got compleationist.
fun, but seriously tricky to play and totally un PuG-able

i have really enjoyed he fanastic ideas and criticisims of the thread sofar.
thanks for all the imput :)

now it's back to the scribble pad/drawing board