Devs- How tough are the new Quests supposed to be?

I did enjoy the series, and the new explorer area (even if it does seem a bit small) but was thinking about something a friend asked me earlier, if the new quests were the same difficulty as Amrath.
And really, the more I think about it, they're not even close.

The Explorer area is much easier than the Amrath stuff (not that Amrath is hard, but stuff seems to save alot more)
but the quests are of much lower difficulty than the Amrath ones.

Before we can give proper feedback, I'd like to know what difficulty you intended these quests to be, because if they are supposed to be harder than the Amrath stuff you're going to get different feedback than if they are supposed to be the same levle,or easier than the Amrath stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khurse

I did enjoy the series, and the new explorer area (even if it does seem a bit small) but was thinking about something a friend asked me earlier, if the new quests were the same difficulty as Amrath.
And really, the more I think about it, they're not even close.

The Explorer area is much easier than the Amrath stuff (not that Amrath is hard, but stuff seems to save alot more)
but the quests are of much lower difficulty than the Amrath ones.

Before we can give proper feedback, I'd like to know what difficulty you intended these quests to be, because if they are supposed to be harder than the Amrath stuff you're going to get different feedback than if they are supposed to be the same levle,or easier than the Amrath stuff.

---

Shav also has GH on everything. So, duh on the saves.

I ran Power Play and Blown to Bits on elite in my FvS.
I soloed Power Play elite and it has been tough. My gear is clearly not up for it and had to drink many pots. But the fact they can't be neg leveled along with the fact that many mobs have evasion made it hard. I don't remember having such a bad time in the few Amrath elite I soloed.

I grouped for Blown to Bits elite and it has also been a difficult run. We've been glad to be able to complete it. And I'm not talking of the optional Iron Golem who destroyed us (the only thing that seemed to damage him was Blade Barrier ...). I never ran Amrath elite in a group so I cannot compare, but it has clearly been challenging.

I felt that the challenge on elite was exactly what it should be. Doable, but challenging for players that are not overgeared. A caster with a necro / enchantment DC around 40 may make those quests a breeze tho.

I didn't try Normal nor Hard yet. Gonna solo the last one on normal to see what it's like.

They should be as hard as we want them to be.

And on elite.. We want them to be MASSIVELY harder. They are a joke now. They shouldn't all get easily solo'd on day 1. (and yea they are all soloable on elite, by any class, several people have already done so today)

It tooks weeks/months for people to figure out how to solo the amrath stuff on NORMAL. and were knocking this all out on day 1 on elite..

It's far too easy.

The only tough part of the whole lot is the optional fight in Schemes of the Enemy Elite - which is very disporportionately hard due to the fact you have to face off versus 20-40 mobs at once which respawn at an incredible rate. That and its not really an optional, so much as an alternate route that no one will really use since it has no reward.

Really the main issue is saves.. They aren't balanced to challenge average geared players, let alone max ones. And the complete lack of deathblock (only saving grace there is some contructs are innately immune to death effects, tho the quests are primarily living-constructs, which are not)

Amrath has good saves, and infrequent spattering of deathblock laced around to prevent this.

I'll post some more detailed feedback on elite and whats needs buffing tomorow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shade

It tooks weeks/months for people to figure out how to solo the amrath stuff on NORMAL.

---

Hello. Remove all your epic and ToD/amrath gear, ship buffs and yugo pots. Then try running the new quests again. You'll thank me later.

That quests dont need deathblock to be comparable to amrath . Amrath was always -> debuff them then go on FoD/WoB. And only cause the +4 heroism buff.

infrequent deathblock makes up for the infrequent no-linving contructs on the quest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shade

They should be as hard as we want them to be.

And on elite.. We want them to be MASSIVELY harder. They are a joke now. They shouldn't all get easily solo'd on day 1. (and yea they are all soloable on elite, by any class, several people have already done so today)

It tooks weeks/months for people to figure out how to solo the amrath stuff on NORMAL. and were knocking this all out on day 1 on elite..

It's far too easy.

The only tough part of the whole lot is the optional fight in Schemes of the Enemy Elite - which is very disporportionately hard due to the fact you have to face off versus 20-40 mobs at once which respawn at an incredible rate. That and its not really an optional, so much as an alternate route that no one will really use since it has no reward.

Really the main issue is saves.. They aren't balanced to challenge average geared players, let alone max ones. And the complete lack of deathblock (only saving grace there is some contructs are innately immune to death effects, tho the quests are primarily living-constructs, which are not)

Amrath has good saves, and infrequent spattering of deathblock laced around to prevent this.

I'll post some more detailed feedback on elite and whats needs buffing tomorow.

---

im curious on what gear you have on when u say its far too easy?, also how many tr on the toon that ran it ?

also whats your definition of average geared players,well geared, max geared players note thats only 3 tiers of "geared" and what happens when this is epified if it isnt already when it comes out

The thing is. This is supposed to be End-Game. Not just High level.

It should be difficult. If you can solo it on Elite on your first try regardless how good your gear is,then it is difinatly not difficult.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dunklerlindwurm

The thing is. This is supposed to be End-Game. Not just High level.

It should be difficult. If you can solo it on Elite on your first try regardless how good your gear is,then it is difinatly not difficult.

---

This, nothing more to say really.

who said this is the final levels? i doubt it is. i think if turbine keeps to what they are saying they might release a few different packs for 19+. i ran the quests earlier today on normal and found it was quite exciting and sure caught us off guard a few times since it was new to us. But seriously random parties that might be undergeared or new might have a challenge if their not careful. Of course a toon that is geared to the max is going mop the floor with these quests. Also im sure there will be major experience factor behind that as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Truga

Hello. Remove all your epic and ToD/amrath gear, ship buffs and yugo pots. Then try running the new quests again. You'll thank me later.

---

Lol, I don't see how that makes any difference; especially on a caster.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Forzah

Lol, I don't see how that makes any difference; especially on a caster.

---

Look, I agree that quests should be hard. However, someone dismissing these quests as a breeze to run through solo on elite with a barbarian is obviously over-geared for them. The fact that there's no content for these over-geared characters is a different issue entirely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shade

They should be as hard as we want them to be.

And on elite.. We want them to be MASSIVELY harder. They are a joke now. They shouldn't all get easily solo'd on day 1. (and yea they are all soloable on elite, by any class, several people have already done so today)

It tooks weeks/months for people to figure out how to solo the amrath stuff on NORMAL. and were knocking this all out on day 1 on elite..

It's far too easy.

The only tough part of the whole lot is the optional fight in Schemes of the Enemy Elite - which is very disporportionately hard due to the fact you have to face off versus 20-40 mobs at once which respawn at an incredible rate. That and its not really an optional, so much as an alternate route that no one will really use since it has no reward.

Really the main issue is saves.. They aren't balanced to challenge average geared players, let alone max ones. And the complete lack of deathblock (only saving grace there is some contructs are innately immune to death effects, tho the quests are primarily living-constructs, which are not)

Amrath has good saves, and infrequent spattering of deathblock laced around to prevent this.

I'll post some more detailed feedback on elite and whats needs buffing tomorow.

---

I don' t really agree with this. These are *not* epic. Elite should be easier than any epic (and it is currently, but mostly because there are very few caster mobs that use crowd control). Someone with no epic gear should be able to run those (maybe not to solo them). And based on what I have seen they will be a challenge to run in a group with no vets with uber epic gear.

Change your gear and run them again (put on some normal gear for a level 20 toon who has been running a few raids), you'll see they won't look that easy on elite : monsters have big HP pool (more than in the easy epics I think), pretty hard to bypass saves (I would say around 45-50 Fort, reflex depends a lot on the type of mob), a lot of them have evasion.
The main difference between this and epic is they don't deal as much damage and there is not as many stun/CC going on inside. But as it is, I think elite is a fair step to epic.

And remember these quests are not epic, elite doesn't offer any of the epic rewards (it only give some favor) so it shouldn't be as hard as epic.

Edit :
If the difficulty was to be increased on elite, these quests should give at least a few epic token fragments.
Also I didn't run these on normal or hard so I am only talking of elite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Truga

Look, I The fact that there's no content for these over-geared characters is a different issue entirely.

---

I think shade made a thread about this, I liked some of his ideas in them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dunklerlindwurm

The thing is. This is supposed to be End-Game. Not just High level.

It should be difficult. If you can solo it on Elite on your first try regardless how good your gear is,then it is difinatly not difficult.

---

i disagree end game is EPIC difficulty this is elite difficulty, if he's running around on a multiple tr toon geared for epic quest well i imagine itll be not so difficult BUT that because his toon is overpowered and too over-geared for him to be able to give an unbiased assessment or accurate beta test

see what nivarch posted a 2 posts before me

the quests on normal are just fine for general populace. think its to easy? then pug it when it goes live and get back to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shade

It tooks weeks/months for people to figure out how to solo the amrath stuff on NORMAL. and were knocking this all out on day 1 on elite..

---

Let's not forget that when Amrath came out there was no epic gear or Cannith crafting in the game, and class enhancements weren't as refined as they are today. Of course new non-epic content is easy when you're running it with an eSoS, eMarilith Chain, 3pc Abisahi, eClaw set, etc (or the caster equivalent) decked out with epic augment slots.

The quests are pretty easy. They're more like IQ than Amrath.
They might be ok on normal, but on elite they're definitely way too easy.

If I run GH quests on elite at level 14 I can expect quite a few problems.

If I solo Vale quests on elite at level 16 I'll probably encounter some massive difficulties.

If I solo House C quests on elite with GS and torc I shouldn't be waltzing through them. I should at least have to be careful...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Carpone

Of course new non-epic content is easy when you're running it with an eSoS, eMarilith Chain, 3pc Abisahi, eClaw set, etc (or the caster equivalent) decked out with epic augment slots.

---

The new stuff is also very easy if you run around with a +4 Greatsword of Pure Good.

Really, what it comes down to is this:
Among level 19 dungeons there are the Easy ones and Tough ones. The Tough ones are in Shavarath, and the Easy ones are in Inspiration Island and Cannith Factory (plus one in Shav).

The single biggest factor in if a level 19 dungeon is Easy or Tough is this: Does it contain groups of Barbazu? Honestly, the Barbazu monster is single-handedly what brings danger to these places, thanks to their combined teleport/deaggro action.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Forzah

Lol, I don't see how that makes any difference; especially on a caster.

---

If you're comparing the difficulty of starting out in Shavarath to starting out here, using all the items and whatnot you got from and after Shavarath while doing so makes for an unequal comparison.