Can You Fix Dinsjuntion of Crafted Items? A Warning

I was one of the lucky people who managed to pull Silver Threaded Handwraps for my Monk.
Sent them to my caster (who's my crafter) to try and figure out what I could put on them.
Figured out that with a +8 potential I could make them +3 Holy of Lawful Outsider bane.
Good enough.
Then went to disjunct them so that I could recraft the shards and pass everything to my Monk for assembly.
Found out that if you have an unbound item, craft on it, (so it becomes BTC) the disjunct it so it can be crafted on again.
It is still BTC.

Yes I am irritated.

While this information is present here,on the forums (by the players) there is nothing in any of the crafting instructions or info that suggests it should work this way. And I can't think of any reason why an originally non bound item should lose that property when disjuncted,So I'm really hoping that this is not WAI and will be fixed.

So far disjunction doesn't revert the BtC.
But it is a good suggestion, as you say there's no reason not to let you share a blank.

WAI.

Binding an item to yourself was/is always meant to be a rather serious thing. Not something your ever meant to undo.

I mean it has a rather huge reward for doing it: The item can no longer take permanent damage, and you can apply eldritch rituals to it. Thus the cost of doing it, is meant to be high.

Perhaps there should be a bigger warning when you go to apply a shard, to prevent mistakes like you made sure. As I guess thats not entirely clear. Especially with shards of potential, which seem like they dont really do anything aside from prep work youd maybe think to do on your crafter, but they do bind it.

Actually I could see them maybe changing crafted items in general from BTC to BTA .. But never gona allow us to unbind them.

Also your last sentence is really misleading:

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Originally Posted by Khurse

And I can't think of any reason why an originally non bound item should lose that property when disjuncted,So I'm really hoping that this is not WAI and will be fixed.

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Currently, disjuncting a non bound item, does not bind it. You can share your blanks, and evne sell them on the auction house. Tho theres little purpose to doing it, since the actual cost of disjunting is trivial, so the non disjuncted item would/should sell just as well.
What binded your wraps, was the act of placing the shard of potentialy on there (or whatever other shard you may have used).

I'm pretty sure that I disjuncted a Khopesh with the Force ritual on it and it didn't have the ritual anymore.
I'll have to double check.
But in any event- as I see it- if all I've done to an item is add shards, there is no reason that disjuncting it should not return it to it's original state.
IE Non bound.

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Originally Posted by Khurse

I'm pretty sure that I disjuncted a Khopesh with the Force ritual on it and it didn't have the ritual anymore.
I'll have to double check.
But in any event- as I see it- if all I've done to an item is add shards, there is no reason that disjuncting it should not return it to it's original state.
IE Non bound.

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I see a reason:

If you fully upgrade say a silver greataxe with a large guild augment with say holy burst glob.. Then later get a epic antique and decide u no longer need the glob - why should you be able to just disjunct it and sell it to someone?

The act of binding an item should have consequences that are not undoable.

Sure if it was say a crappy item that had no/little value, then who cares..

But in your case of silver handwrap,s or my case of augmented axe, both are very rare/valuable items, even disjuncted.

re: Disjunct removes eldritch rituals - yep it does, i know.. All I meant by those is that, you need to bind the item to first add those, another benefit of binding.

Should the simple act of adding shards in general make items bound? Imo not, but thats best left for another thread. They are planning to add unbound crafting (goes in that missign slot in the craft hall) after all.. But the costs and limitations on it will likely be higher. Tho the bound verisons should have some benefit too, like lower ml or something.

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Originally Posted by Shade

I see a reason:

If you fully upgrade say a silver greataxe with a large guild augment with say holy burst glob.. Then later get a epic antique and decide u no longer need the glob - why should you be able to just disjunct it and sell it to someone?

The act of binding an item should have consequences that are not undoable.

Sure if it was say a crappy item that had no/little value, then who cares..

But in your case of silver handwrap,s or my case of augmented axe, both are very rare/valuable items, even disjuncted.

re: Disjunct removes eldritch rituals - yep it does, i know.. All I meant by those is that, you need to bind the item to first add those, another benefit of binding.

Should the simple act of adding shards in general make items bound? Imo not, but thats best left for another thread. They are planning to add unbound crafting (goes in that missign slot in the craft hall) after all.. But the costs and limitations on it will likely be higher. Tho the bound verisons should have some benefit too, like lower ml or something.

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Great example except where the +4 holyburst silver glob does more damage than the new epic antique.

And the part where a falchion would do even more than the axe.

The thing that is unintuitive is that the shard of potential is BTA but applying them and not crafting makes the item BTC.

I made that mistake with my first item under this system as well. I figured I would apply the potential shards, put the item in the bank wit hthe other shards, and finish the item on the character who'd use it.

Instead my monk became the permanent owner of a silver falchion.

As I showed several times in my crafting videos, bound items stay bound regardless of how or when. Even in its earliest incarnation when crafting to add any shard made them item BTC even when all shards were BTA, then BTC and then back to BTA so nothing has ever changed here.

It takes no skill at all to disjunction an item, even those that have the current crafting bug from being disjunctioned prior to 9.1. All that was needed to have prevented this was to leave the wraps with the monk and move all the needed shards to him after they were created by the crafter on your account. The monk could have added a junk shard, again no skill needed, so that it would have been bound to him/her then disjunction the item, no skill needed, so that the shards of potential could be added along with all the permanent shards.

Anytime you are dealing with a system that is BTA/BTC some thought and even a trial run with less important items is prudent and encouraged. I will also sadly remind everyone of the message that appears on your screen every time you enter the crafting hall, "BETA... no support..."

While more than 2k people have watch my first crafting video, parts 2 and 3 have less than a third of that and sadly it is in them that these issue are discussed even though they were made well before shards of potential came in to play. Knowledge is power and in this case those "boring" and "overkill" videos might have told you what you needed to know.

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Originally Posted by Junts

Great example except where the +4 holyburst silver glob does more damage than the new epic antique.

And the part where a falchion would do even more than the axe.

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Incorrect.
The upcoming epic antique just BARELY pulls ahead of a +5 hb silver glob (about 2-3% in the case of my char). I did post the pretty exhautive comparison of these in my epic thread, check it if you care. Basically they match up, but the higher base of the antique helps it pull ahead, due to glancing blows.

And no, the weapon type selected didn't make it a bad example. What if one simply didn't have a falcion with said slot.. Or one was a dwarf, so falcions werent as good? Or actaully a half orc barb too, since flacions also suck for them.. So yea wrong again there. I get you play paladins, and for them - given how weak they are and their lack of good glancing blow dmg, cleave and power attacks, it might be better.. But not for barbs or fighters.

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The thing that is unintuitive is that the shard of potential is BTA but applying them and not crafting makes the item BTC.

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Maybe for new players. You making that mistake is a bit odd.. Youve crafted countless greensteel wepaons havent you? They work the same in that regard, you should of known. Blank = unbound (well bind on equip in case of GS)
Shard applied = bound. And yea going from bta to btc may be a bit unintivie, but thats not new either.. Epic crafting works like that too, everything could be bta cept scroll, and end result is always btc. (eg: in the case of red fens or chronoscope items)

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I made that mistake with my first item under this system as well. I figured I would apply the potential shards, put the item in the bank wit hthe other shards, and finish the item on the character who'd use it.

Instead my monk became the permanent owner of a silver falchion.

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Yea.. Could be more idiot proof and pop up some big red tex saying "WARNING YOUR CRAFTING A FALCION ON A MONK - EPICFAIL!!!"
Or even a falcion on any class dwarf ;p.

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Originally Posted by Marten

As I showed several times in my crafting videos, bound items stay bound regardless of how or when. Even in its earliest incarnation when crafting to add any shard made them item BTC even when all shards were BTA, then BTC and then back to BTA so nothing has ever changed here.

It takes no skill at all to disjunction an item, even those that have the current crafting bug from being disjunctioned prior to 9.1. All that was needed to have prevented this was to leave the wraps with the monk and move all the needed shards to him after they were created by the crafter on your account. The monk could have added a junk shard, again no skill needed, so that it would have been bound to him/her then disjunction the item, no skill needed, so that the shards of potential could be added along with all the permanent shards.

Anytime you are dealing with a system that is BTA/BTC some thought and even a trial run with less important items is prudent and encouraged. I will also sadly remind everyone of the message that appears on your screen every time you enter the crafting hall, "BETA... no support..."

While more than 2k people have watch my first crafting video, parts 2 and 3 have less than a third of that and sadly it is in them that these issue are discussed even though they were made well before shards of potential came in to play. Knowledge is power and in this case those "boring" and "overkill" videos might have told you what you needed to know.

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Didn't even know you had a crafting video, and I'll toss you a +1 for making those.
However
Without trying to sound rude , the idea that I should have to watch your videos in order to find out how Turbines crafting works is ludicrous. The same as I shouldn't have to check the forums.
I'm not talking about helpful hints or tricks that you have learned, but basic info.

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Originally Posted by Shade

Maybe for new players. You making that mistake is a bit odd.. Youve crafted countless greensteel wepaons havent you? They work the same in that regard, you should of known. Blank = unbound (well bind on equip in case of GS)
Shard applied = bound. And yea going from bta to btc may be a bit unintivie, but thats not new either.. Epic crafting works like that too, everything could be bta cept scroll, and end result is always btc. (eg: in the case of red fens or chronoscope items)

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Uh yeah, this is an argument I don't get, the "you should have know it works that way"
Why?
We have never been able to disjunct an item before. There has never been a process for stripping all the enchantments off of one item to be able to add other things to it.

The argument that "oh it would make it too powerful" is (completely in my opinion) as dumb a one as using that to argue against greensteel deconstruction if they ever decide to bring it in.
'Oh it will be too powerful as you can make and use a Lit2 on one toon until he gets something better,then break it down and use the ingredients on another toon"

I mean this was my fault, I'm not trying to say it wasn't. I should have come to the forums and read all the posts made by players and watched videos made by players before I actually tried to do something in the crafting system.

I am saying that the system should not work like this. If I disjunct an item it should go back to non bound status.
The only reason I can see it not is due to them deciding not to bother.

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Originally Posted by Khurse

Uh yeah, this is an argument I don't get, the "you should have know it works that way"

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Well it wasn't an argument. It was a direct personal comment directed only towards junts, not you.

Being I talked with him ingame on lam for quite a while.. I know he is a pretty hardcore player and has a ton of GS stuff, and may even spend more time on the forums then I do (mm maybe.. 4 posts to 10k lol).. So even if he didn't make the connection with GS, he could of read martens post warning about this, or several others I have seen.

Sure that doesn't apply to most players i agree, was just a poke at junts.

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Originally Posted by Shade

Well it wasn't an argument. It was a direct personal comment directed only towards junts, not you.

Being I talked with him ingame on lam for quite a while.. I know he is a pretty hardcore player and has a ton of GS stuff, and may even spend more time on the forums then I do (mm maybe.. 4 posts to 10k lol).. So even if he didn't make the connection with GS, he could of read martens post warning about this, or several others I have seen.

Sure that doesn't apply to most players i agree, was just a poke at junts.

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Whoops, my bad.

Speaking of disjuction wiping the weapon, can someone tell if armor kits are lost? or point to the right thread. ty