Shield Mastery

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03-29-2011, 03:39 PM
Ironforge_Clan

Shield Mastery

Devs I must say I am very pleased about the update to shield mastery. It appears to be work very, very nicely. Just running around Amarath it gives a sense that AC has some meaning again. My only objection is that you didn't do anything with improved shield mastery. I know there has been a discussion in a few other threads regarding this and I feel it is definitely something you should consider.

To be honest I wouldn't even mind a small reduction in shield mastery and then getting that reduction added back in with a bit more of an increase with improved if that would work to balance things out a bit more.

Again nice job
03-29-2011, 04:06 PM
Symar-FangofLloth

Is this an only-when-blocking buff, or is it all the time?
03-29-2011, 04:26 PM
Aeolwind

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symar-FangofLloth

Is this an only-when-blocking buff, or is it all the time?

Improved Shield Mastery increases the amount of additional damage the character can block with a shield by +3 damage reduction for a total of +6 (when combined with its prerequisite Shield Mastery).

Description on Imp Shield Mastery from the wiki.

So, yes. Blocking only. A waste of a feat now it seems.
03-29-2011, 04:38 PM
Zack77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeolwind

Improved Shield Mastery increases the amount of additional damage the character can block with a shield by +3 damage reduction for a total of +6 (when combined with its prerequisite Shield Mastery).

Description on Imp Shield Mastery from the wiki.

So, yes. Blocking only. A waste of a feat now it seems.

What he was asking was if the new Shield Mastery Feat, which causes a static damage reduction, is only applicable while blocking, or if its always working.

As to that, I have no clue.
03-29-2011, 04:39 PM
Propane

From Release notes... Update 9

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=206066

Improved Shield Bash now grants a 20% chance to make a secondary shield bash while attacking with a melee weapon.

Shield Mastery's feat benefit has been changed to, "You are now skilled with the use of a shield, and your physical damage vulnerability is decreased by 10% when using a buckler or small shield, 15% when using a large shield, or 20% when using a tower shield."

The question still stands - is the DR passive or do you need to be "blocking"?
03-29-2011, 04:43 PM
Ironforge_Clan

Based upon my testing the DR is not passive however the % resistance (as it is described) to bludgeoning, slashing, and piercing granted from Shield Mastery is passive.

I did some additional test...the idiot I am forgot my armor also has DR on it so needed to remove it. I'm continuing to check but the corrected statement appears to be the way things are working. Sorry for the confusion.
03-29-2011, 04:56 PM
Propane

Thanks for the quick info!

That makes the feat much more interesting to take...
03-29-2011, 05:01 PM
Ironforge_Clan

Now if they only made Improved Shield Mastery build upon Shield Mastery then I and probably a number of others would be extremely happy. Getting only an additional 3 DR from the second feat is absolutely meh.
03-29-2011, 05:02 PM
sephiroth1084

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironforge_Clan

Based upon my testing the DR is passive and the % resistance (as it is described) to bludgeoning, slashing, and piercing is passive.

Wait, what DR is passive? The previous blocking-only DR from Improved/Shield Mastery?

Personally, I wouldn't mind ISM just getting deleted. S&B toons are already facing an uphill battle without also having extra non-DPS feats to squeeze in. The new SM looks like it will be really nice. I am a little disappointed, though, that I had just swapped to the Epic Swashbuckler as my main shield, and if I take the feat it will be a real decision on whether to go with that, the Epic KWS or Madstone Shield (no proficiency on my paladin, sadly).

Thinking probably the light shield for stuff like normal ToD and the KWS or Madstone for Elite.
03-29-2011, 05:16 PM
Ironforge_Clan

Quote:

Originally Posted by sephiroth1084

Wait, what DR is passive? The previous blocking-only DR from Improved/Shield Mastery?

Personally, I wouldn't mind ISM just getting deleted. S&B toons are already facing an uphill battle without also having extra non-DPS feats to squeeze in. The new SM looks like it will be really nice. I am a little disappointed, though, that I had just swapped to the Epic Swashbuckler as my main shield, and if I take the feat it will be a real decision on whether to go with that, the Epic KWS or Madstone Shield (no proficiency on my paladin, sadly).

Thinking probably the light shield for stuff like normal ToD and the KWS or Madstone for Elite.

I corrected my observations on the ISM dr being passive.

I agree with your observations on SM. It is a very nice feat as it stands right now. Now if they would only carry over the new damage resistance that SM has into a new ISM then it would be a great thing for S&B characters.
03-29-2011, 05:18 PM
Symar-FangofLloth

So the new Shield Mastery is a passive buff as long as you have on a shield? Awesome.
03-29-2011, 05:20 PM
Ironforge_Clan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symar-FangofLloth

So the new Shield Mastery is a passive buff as long as you have on a shield? Awesome.

Yes and awesome it is.
03-29-2011, 05:23 PM
sephiroth1084

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironforge_Clan

I agree with your observations on SM. It is a very nice feat as it stands right now. Now if they would only carry over the new damage resistance that SM has into a new ISM then it would be a great thing for S&B characters.

I don't know..I know that I probably can't afford to include 2 shield feats, though I'm sure some can, especially fighters. I just don't know whether it is worth pushing S&B characters to pick up that many more defensive feats. We're already looking at Combat Expertise, Shield Mastery, maybe Dodge, maybe the Fighter Past Life. For a non-fighter, that's a lot of feats dedicated toward a style that everyone agrees is hurting in other ways already.
03-29-2011, 05:31 PM
Ironforge_Clan

Quote:

Originally Posted by sephiroth1084

I don't know..I know that I probably can't afford to include 2 shield feats, though I'm sure some can, especially fighters. I just don't know whether it is worth pushing S&B characters to pick up that many more defensive feats. We're already looking at Combat Expertise, Shield Mastery, maybe Dodge, maybe the Fighter Past Life. For a non-fighter, that's a lot of feats dedicated toward a style that everyone agrees is hurting in other ways already.

I do agree with you that on a non-fighter it is very tough. However, if they boosted ISM I feel it would give a major boost to S&B and initimitanks. Fighters generally have feats to spare unless you are trying to push AC, Intim, and DPS as high as possible. I'm pretty much at my limit on my fighter because I've tried to balance all of those issues. Now if I were to TR I would have some tough choices, but would most likely drop ISM IF it were to remain as it is now. If they gave me another 10% or more of passive damage resistance then my choice would be much, much harder. I might have to drop GTWF.
03-29-2011, 05:43 PM
sephiroth1084

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironforge_Clan

I do agree with you that on a non-fighter it is very tough. However, if they boosted ISM I feel it would give a major boost to S&B and initimitanks. Fighters generally have feats to spare unless you are trying to push AC, Intim, and DPS as high as possible. I'm pretty much at my limit on my fighter because I've tried to balance all of those issues. Now if I were to TR I would have some tough choices, but would most likely drop ISM IF it were to remain as it is now. If they gave me another 10% or more of passive damage resistance then my choice would be much, much harder. I might have to drop GTWF.

Yup. It's tough maintaining all of those on a fighter, and basically impossible on a paladin.

If the new Improved Shield Bash (can you test this on Lama? I still haven't seen any feedback on it) adds enough damage for the style to be kind of reasonable, then giving up stuff like GTWF (and maybe the whole chain) wouldn't be too bad, but forcing those decisions on this type of character is pretty rough, as you're choosing between effectiveness in, usually, only a small portion of content (bosses and a few other fights, typically at end game, more while leveling) or power the rest of the time when DPS is what tends to matter. If the game shifts a bit, though, and defense becomes more reasonable more of the time, then this won't be too terrible a decision.
03-29-2011, 05:44 PM
Aeolwind

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zack77

What he was asking was if the new Shield Mastery Feat, which causes a static damage reduction, is only applicable while blocking, or if its always working.

As to that, I have no clue.

/facepalm, -5 internets to me.
03-29-2011, 06:07 PM
Ironforge_Clan

Quote:

Originally Posted by sephiroth1084

Yup. It's tough maintaining all of those on a fighter, and basically impossible on a paladin.

If the new Improved Shield Bash (can you test this on Lama? I still haven't seen any feedback on it) adds enough damage for the style to be kind of reasonable, then giving up stuff like GTWF (and maybe the whole chain) wouldn't be too bad, but forcing those decisions on this type of character is pretty rough, as you're choosing between effectiveness in, usually, only a small portion of content (bosses and a few other fights, typically at end game, more while leveling) or power the rest of the time when DPS is what tends to matter. If the game shifts a bit, though, and defense becomes more reasonable more of the time, then this won't be too terrible a decision.

ISB was discussed somewhat in Tarnoc's post http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=308750 (about post #11) but not with any real numbers. Unfortunately I don't have the feat but might consider swapping out some feats to try it out.
03-29-2011, 06:18 PM
sephiroth1084

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironforge_Clan

ISB was discussed somewhat in Tarnoc's post http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=308750 (about post #11) but not with any real numbers. Unfortunately I don't have the feat but might consider swapping out some feats to try it out.

If I could get on Lama I would, but I'd be really interested to know what the damage is like on this. Specifically:

How much damage was the bash attack doing when it triggered?
What other feats do you have? Does Power Attack affect the damage? Weapon Specialization? Improved Critical?
If you change shields (from light, to heavy to tower, from +1 to +5, etc...) does the bash damage change?
Did you test it against monsters with DR? Did it bypass their DR?
03-30-2011, 05:10 AM
Trippy

Quote:

Originally Posted by sephiroth1084

I don't know..I know that I probably can't afford to include 2 shield feats, though I'm sure some can, especially fighters. I just don't know whether it is worth pushing S&B characters to pick up that many more defensive feats. We're already looking at Combat Expertise, Shield Mastery, maybe Dodge, maybe the Fighter Past Life. For a non-fighter, that's a lot of feats dedicated toward a style that everyone agrees is hurting in other ways already.

I wanted to echo this, if they are going to fix shields to be useful, they should fix them to be useful to all shield using classes, not just pure fighters.

Yes, the fighter who has the room to spend an extra 3 feats on the style should get more, but there should still be a viable defensive reason for paladins, clerics and bards to have a shield equipped.
03-30-2011, 05:21 AM
sephiroth1084

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trippy

I wanted to echo this, if they are going to fix shields to be useful, they should fix them to be useful to all shield using classes, not just pure fighters.

Yes, the fighter who has the room to spend an extra 3 feats on the style should get more, but there should still be a viable defensive reason for paladins, clerics and bards to have a shield equipped.

Well, actually, I'd prefer for the shield feats to get improved such that they can replace another combat style's chain, but I can't imagine that happening without a major concurrent shift in the focus of the game.

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