Am I just crazy, or are there certain spells every arcane should have????

Today. Tempest Raid. Conversation when something like this:

[Me]: alright everyone who want's FR on the left plz
- People move to the left including a level 11 sorc
[to Sorc]: dude, you are arcane. Not giving you FR too.
[sorc]: don't have it m8
[Me]: ummm, why not. Basic spell everyone caster should have.
[sorc]: i'm DPS
[Me]: then you should carry pots or get house P buffs to make up for what you decide not to carry, cause I'm not wasting my sp on you.

So at that point I pretty gave a haste to the group and took off with everyone but him.

My question is was I being unreasonable by not enabling his [what I see as] stupidity, or are there a certain group of spells caster should reasonably have?

Besides waterbreathing and grease? Hmmm....

I consider Resist to be an essential on my Sorcs - but I don't ever expect any other player to carry a spell I always take. Once you've run into Sorcs that don't carry Haste or Firewall - all bets are off. I try to tell myself that they are new players and that they'll learn. Sometimes I'm even right. :)

However, I would have given him a Resist instead of the lecture - he's still a member of the party and all.

Spells that are too good not to have:

1- Nightshield
2- Energy Resist
3- Haste
4- Firewall
5- Eh pick one
6- Reconstruct if Warforged, bunch of good picks this level
7-9- Polar ray, wail of the banshee, energy drain, mass hold monster

Spells that I think every Wizard/Sorc should carry

Expeditious Retreat
Resist Energy
Haste
Wall of Fire
Halt Undead (scrolls) once you have the cash to carry scrolls
Haste
Jump
Haste
Blur/Displacement
Haste
Nightshield


Spells I think every Cleric/FvS should carry
Cure X Wounds - at least two to allow you to hit one while the other is on cooldown.
Heal - just takes care of so many conditions in addition to healing lots of HP
Blade Barrier
Resist Energy
Freedom of Movement
Raise Dead or Resurrection (or both)
Blade Barrier
Nightshield

Some things are just fundamental to a class to the point where it seems like willful stupidity to not take it.

Seems to me he was just following your instructions. If you wanted to restrict your buffs to certain party members then you should have said so.

I agree any arcane should have resist but I disagree with the way you handled it. He still is a party member.

Resist is a must-have spell, although I'd cut lower level toons some slack. Haste is the other lower level absolute must-have.

Higher level, Reconstruct is a must-have for raiding (on all sorcs, scrolls have too long a cooldown), as is one of the Cloud spells and Mass Hold Monster for epics.

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Originally Posted by twigzz

I agree any arcane should have resist but I disagree with the way you handled it. He still is a party member.

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Agreed I was a bit harsh on the guy, but I figured if I enabled him then there would be no reason for him to realize he needs to have buffs as an arcane. Kinda figured I needed to let him know that toons have roles and either you need to fulfill the minimal aspects of that roll or let people know ahead of time you are not able to fulfill that roll. (e.g. battle clerics or melee FvS).

I guess the additional aspect that kind of annoyed be is that he had knock instead of resists. That's just greedy.

Hey OP, did you also deny the cleric/fvs, the ranger, the pali, and well all the melee since they could all either cast it or put on a 30 resist item?

I agree, once you can cast 30 resist you are crazy not to carry it, but still...

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Originally Posted by elldur

Seems to me he was just following your instructions. If you wanted to restrict your buffs to certain party members then you should have said so.

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I think he did say so. :)

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Originally Posted by Metaljaw

[to Sorc]: dude, you are arcane. Not giving you FR too.

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I've actually asked for a Resist Fire from another Arcane or Divine if there was an 11th level caster in the party and I was less than 11th level. That extra 10 points per hit adds up quickly sometimes.

By 9th level, though, a Sorcerer will have all 4 of his 2nd level spells. What spells are you going to take if not Resist Energy? How could anyone pass on the bargain of getting 5 different spells that cost only one spell slot?

I don't know if Metaljaw handled it the best way possible, but I know that I've chosen to let some melee types die in order to save spell points for the others that are more sturdy and effective when I know that spell points are going to be tight in a quest. This seems similar to me. I buff all the Fighters, Rogues, Monks, Barbarians and Bards in the party with appropriate resists when we go into a quest, but I figure that the Paladins, Rangers, Sorcs, Wizards, Clerics and FvS can take care of themselves. If they can't, then they need to at least be aware that their lack of self sufficiency is a problem and not a virtue.

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Originally Posted by Metaljaw

Agreed I was a bit harsh on the guy, but I figured if I enabled him then there would be no reason for him to realize he needs to have buffs as an arcane. Kinda figured I needed to let him know that toons have roles and either you need to fulfill the minimal aspects of that roll or let people know ahead of time you are not able to fulfill that roll. (e.g. battle clerics or melee FvS).

I guess the additional aspect that kind of annoyed be is that he had knock instead of resists. That's just greedy.

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Knock FTW!!!!!

Agree with you, but next time just tell him to google "DDO Aspenor"

A sorc without resist? garbage.

I get mad when melee cant resits themselves with a cloak at cap.
(if they have a valid excuse thats one thing, but just never to carry anything like that is unexeptable)

There's no reason not to have either Resist Energy, or one of the Protection spells. Especially Resist, because what exactly is so good that one does not have a free slot for a very high-demand buff? I hate being a buff bot, but I get just as much use from buffs as anyone else, and being able to take care of myself is much better than complaining about not having any.

I also disagree with the Nightshield thing. If it's just the Magic Missile protection part, then use Shield, because it does the same thing with two additional effects-- Nightshield does not add anything else, if you already have resistance on your gear. I can see the case where one cant find a good slot for something with resistance, but that's really about it. I never used Nightshield, and saw no problems. When I TR, I might try it, because it will stack with the Dilettante feat I want, which will free a lot.
I also disagree on Reconstruct. There are a lot of good spells at level 6, and if your build depends on it, then scrolls will serve you better if you're not a Warforged. Dont be a tank healer is all you need to do, because every wizard will already have it.

I don't carry resists on my lowbie casters. Pots are cheap and have reasonable duration.

Leaving him behind like that was too harsh IMO. I would have given him FR and a tell like "Listen, others would have kicked your for not having resists with you in such a quest. Just slot them next time and keep them from then on".

In my view that would have been much more productive than what you did there.

Good call bro, i would have done the same, maybe even a bit more harsh. something like " What, are you kidding me? First off, a caster callin themselves DPS is funny as it is, but even a "dps" caster should be able to buff himself. DPS caster lol what do you have a ftr lv in there too? If you dont carry resist then buy some pots, but you should have it anyways. How do you expect to stay alive long enough to rock your "dPS" lol" Then maybe he would get it. Its important to be harsh so that they learn. Do you really want to be stuck in a ToD with that guy?

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DPS caster lol what do you have a ftr lv in there too?

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I seen that recently LOL. He didnt even use weapons, or enough SP to do much.

Too harsh a way of handling it. These are lowbies after all. They don't have all their spell slots.

Hell, when I was low, I carried DPS level 2 spells for my caster as well, switching them out only when I felt like I had a comfortable number of higher level DPS spells to render them all obsolete. Was it malignant underestimizing of Resist Energy? Nah. More like, I figured that someone else always had that buff, and would be throwing it around for me anyway. :P

Cut some slack for lower levels. When they have access to higher level DPS spells, then they'll be no excuse.

~TheHolyDarkness Out~

HASTE and RAGE
that is all
ill take a fireball in the face for those!