Arcane Acrobat

Here's the thing... I like rogues, I like quarterstaves, I am not looking for the nth degree of DPS splendiferousness.

I would like to know if the following build might work. Now, I don't care so much about end game, as if I reach level 8 it will be amazing for me (rerollitis!), however improvements to assist end game functionality would be welcome.

Here is, the Arcane Acrobat.

Code:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.32 DDO Character Planner Home Page Level 20 True Neutral Human Male (13 Rogue \ 7 Wizard) Hit Points: 238 Spell Points: 498 BAB: 12\12\17\22 Fortitude: 9 Reflex: 13 Will: 8 Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats (32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20) Strength 15 19 20 Dexterity 14 14 17 Constitution 14 15 16 Intelligence 15 15 16 Wisdom 8 8 8 Charisma 12 12 12 Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20) Balance 2 3 9 Bluff 1 1 1 Concentration 2 3 3 Diplomacy 1 1 1 Disable Device n/a n/a n/a Haggle 1 1 1 Heal -1 -1 -1 Hide 2 3 3 Intimidate 1 1 1 Jump 2 5 9 Listen -1 -1 -1 Move Silently 2 3 3 Open Lock n/a n/a n/a Perform n/a n/a n/a Repair 2 3 3 Search 2 3 3 Spot -1 -1 -1 Swim 2 5 5 Tumble n/a n/a n/a Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a Level 1 (Rogue) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting Feat: (Automatic) Attack Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I Enhancement: Human Versatility I Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I Level 2 (Wizard) Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Mental Toughness Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm Feat: (Automatic) Inscribe Scroll Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training Spell (1): Mage Armor Spell (1): Niac's Cold Ray Spell (1): Nightshield Spell (1): Protection From Evil Spell (1): Ray of Enfeeblement Enhancement: Rogue Balance I Enhancement: Rogue Tumble I Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I Level 3 (Rogue) Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting Feat: (Automatic) Evasion Feat: (Automatic) Sunder Feat: (Automatic) Trip Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I Level 4 (Wizard) Ability Raise: STR Spell (1): Burning Hands Spell (1): Shield Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I Level 5 (Rogue) Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I Enhancement: Human Versatility II Level 6 (Rogue) Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Rogue Balance II Level 7 (Rogue) Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II Enhancement: Rogue Tumble II Level 8 (Rogue) Ability Raise: STR Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I Level 9 (Wizard) Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell Spell (1): Feather Fall Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I Enhancement: Wizard Improved Quickening I Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I Level 10 (Wizard) Spell (2): Blur Spell (2): Bull's Strength Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting I Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery I Enhancement: Wizard Wand Heightening I Level 11 (Wizard) Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell Spell (2): Cat's Grace Spell (2): Resist Energy Enhancement: Racial Toughness III Level 12 (Wizard) Ability Raise: STR Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting Spell (3): Haste Spell (3): Displacement Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II Level 13 (Wizard) Spell (4): Stoneskin Spell (4): Remove Curse Level 14 (Rogue) Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II Level 15 (Rogue) Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons Feat: (Automatic) Improved Uncanny Dodge Enhancement: Wizard Improved Heightening I Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I Level 16 (Rogue) Ability Raise: STR Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II Enhancement: Wizard Subtle Spellcasting II Level 17 (Rogue) Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II Level 18 (Rogue) Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery II Enhancement: Wizard Wand Heightening II Level 19 (Rogue) Level 20 (Rogue) Ability Raise: CON Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III

May well be a "fun" solo build, especially if you go Warforged instead of human. You lose a feat and gain quickened self-healing, which is invaluable. Don't forget the fact that standing in an extended, quickened sleet storm with Acrobat 2 gives you auto-sneak attack on every speedy hasted strike, even when soloing. You may even make a few of them slip as well!

Drop a firewall in it for even MORE DPS!

might work as wf

i can only see this working as a self-healing wf

also, you will have trouble finding groups at end game where mainly there are the power gamers who are less tolerant of unique builds like this

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trillea

May well be a "fun" solo build, especially if you go Warforged instead of human. You lose a feat and gain quickened self-healing, which is invaluable. Don't forget the fact that standing in an extended, quickened sleet storm with Acrobat 2 gives you auto-sneak attack on every speedy hasted strike, even when soloing. You may even make a few of them slip as well!

Drop a firewall in it for even MORE DPS!

Only drop the firewall at the edge of the sleet storm since fire and ice don't go well together.

Wish the mobs would use sleet storm more!

Looks like it could be a lot of fun! Let us know if you liked it after playing for awhile :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by zealous

Only drop the firewall at the edge of the sleet storm since fire and ice don't go well together.

Wish the mobs would use sleet storm more!

Although enemy sleet storms can and do put out firewalls, I don't think that friendly sleet storms do.

An interesting twist...

I found it humourous that there was more discussion about sleet storms and firewalls than about the build as posted. I'll keep that in mind if ever I decide to go forward with this project.

Cheers all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trillea

Although enemy sleet storms can and do put out firewalls, I don't think that friendly sleet storms do.

I think they do, could just be me being confused though, will check it if I manage to remember to...

Anyhoo, if you can have it the sleet, all good, if not you just have to do like when mixing web with firewall. I.e. Place them as close as you can so that the effects overlap but far enough so that one won't cancel the other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelabb

I found it humourous that there was more discussion about sleet storms and firewalls than about the build as posted. I'll keep that in mind if ever I decide to go forward with this project.

Cheers all.

Well, you did state you didn't care much for endgame so there's not that much of a need to go into min-maxing. =)

I'll admit that I generally only consider class splits since the skills/feats/stats are somewhat easy to respec.

You might want to consider swapping out heighten, with a somewhat low int DC won't be very high anyway and with few spell levels the benefit will be slim. Then again, since DCs will be low that extra +2DC for e.g. web might be needed to have much of a chance to land it.

Since you will have problems to reach a decent DC, you could possibly drop int a bit, then again you might want it for skills.

I personally find mental toughness to give scant benefits.

Cha is not really needed, then again it's nice to get that UMD up if you lack the twinks.

I would get empower+maximize to be able to make firewalls that burn hot.

I would defenitely go 2wf, then again if you don't have tomes, don't have gold to buy tomes off AH and don't want to spend TP, you would have to sacrifice stats. Can always do a lesser/greater reincarnation or multiple feat swaps when/if you pull a +3 dex tome.

It seems you have put some thoughts into constructing a(two) builds to be able to play how you'd like to play, it might not be super mega pwn liek you have to play but that's really not that important imo.

You don't need Cha. I'd lower it and put 2 points into Dex so you have Dex 15. Just incase you change your mind and want TWF.

UMD or reroll. Or did you skiped skills?

Human is OK, tho a bit anoying until your UMD is high enough for cure wands and scrolls. WF or Halfling would be better, self-repair or healing dragonmarks. WFs are also more durable and get some enhancements for 2handers. Halflings can sneak attack better.

That looks like it'd be a lot of fun & I'm tempted to try it out myself - like i dont already have enough toons on the go! :) Still, i'd agree with some of the other posters & recommend WF for increased self sufficiency & the 2hf enhancement line.
A couple of other possibilities would be 12 rogue/8 wizard to get 3 level 4 spell slots (firewall, fire shield & crit repair would be a nice combo on a WF) or 12 rogue/7 wizard/1 monk to squeeze a little more attack speed, but either of these combos would preclude the 2nd rogue feat & higher sneak attack damage, so not sure how much it'd be worth it.

Use of the arcane

I really only considered using the arcane side of the builds for buffs, and not for casting offensive spells. An alternative to ranger you might say, as Ranger spells come late compared to the arcane casters. I could see using Bulls Strength, Cat's Grace, Bear's Endurance etc as well as shield and mage armour. I had really not considered sleet storms or firewalls as I didn't think they would have a chance of landing anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelabb

I really only considered using the arcane side of the builds for buffs, and not for casting offensive spells. An alternative to ranger you might say, as Ranger spells come late compared to the arcane casters. I could see using Bulls Strength, Cat's Grace, Bear's Endurance etc as well as shield and mage armour. I had really not considered sleet storms or firewalls as I didn't think they would have a chance of landing anyway.

Sleet storm and firewall have no save, so always land..

By endgame you won't need the stat buff spells, as your equipment will have +6 to the stats, and they do not stack. You will probably be focusing on damage mitigation with stoneskin wands, displacement, blur, and maybe some no-save damage spells like scorching ray, chain missile, and firewall.

The way I see you doing it is this - drop an extended sleet storm in front of you. Target a monster in the distance, smack with chain missiles, he and his buddies will come for you. Jump in sleet storm. They will get slowed and blinded in the storm, while you are swinging away, getting full sneak attack damage with every swing, while they are burning in a firewall you drop on them, and missing you 1/2 the time due to being blind. Don't forget that you are hasted, have extra swing speed, and are having a lot of fun...

Edit - BTW, don't forget about superior inferno potions for extra firewall damage!

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelabb

I really only considered using the arcane side of the builds for buffs, and not for casting offensive spells. An alternative to ranger you might say, as Ranger spells come late compared to the arcane casters. I could see using Bulls Strength, Cat's Grace, Bear's Endurance etc as well as shield and mage armour. I had really not considered sleet storms or firewalls as I didn't think they would have a chance of landing anyway.

Buffs
Bull's, Cat's, Bear's as well as mage armor are what I'd call mild convenience to have as self buffs. They will eventually be eclipsed by items (lvl9-13ish), you can get equivalent items even earlier and although inconvenient you can substitute with wands/pots/clickies(mage armor).

Using shield clickies works quite well up to the point where you can use shield wands.

Same goes for heroism and haste, you can use pots/scrolls.

However, that kind of luxury more or less requires a higher level main. Additionally, if you're pugging, chances are that others do not have the means/aren't bothered with carrying pots so in that case you can help your party help you by buffing them.
...
The good buffs to have are the defensive ones, most notably displacement and fireshield since they have relatively short durations unextended.
Stoneskin works quite well off of wands but can be cheaper to cast.
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"Offensive" spells
Without ~maxed casting stat and twink DCs might be insufficient. This will make most cc suboptimal and many direct damage spells work at less then half damage due to mobs saving.

There are however spells that don't allow for a save, for those the only malus will be a somewhat lower damage due to caster level based damage for the damage spells.
Ray of enfeeblement, Scorching ray, Sleet storm, Solid fog and firewall will work fairly well.

Other damaging spells can be useful although damage will be substantially worse than for a primary caster.

Using empower and maximize as well as having enhancement + sup. efficacy (or equivalent) clicky firewall damage will be quite potent.
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Spellpoints will obviously be substantially lower than a pure caster so without rare twink like epic ring of spell storing you need to be quite restrictive about when to use your mana.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trillea

Sleet storm and firewall have no save, so always land..

The way I see you doing it is this - drop an extended sleet storm in front of you. Target a monster in the distance, smack with chain missiles, he and his buddies will come for you. Jump in sleet storm. They will get slowed and blinded in the storm, while you are swinging away, getting full sneak attack damage with every swing, while they are burning in a firewall you drop on them, and missing you 1/2 the time due to being blind. Don't forget that you are hasted, have extra swing speed, and are having a lot of fun...

I hope I never upset you. I apologise in advance, just in case. Having said that, it does sound like fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zealous

Buffs

Spellpoints will obviously be substantially lower than a pure caster so without rare twink like epic ring of spell storing you need to be quite restrictive about when to use your mana.

I've only played Bards to date, and then only to around Lvl 6 before getting a "better idea" and rerolling. I thought the SP would be fine if I wasn't healing, but I speak from supposition not experience.

Rethinking time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelabb

I've only played Bards to date, and then only to around Lvl 6 before getting a "better idea" and rerolling. I thought the SP would be fine if I wasn't healing, but I speak from supposition not experience.

Rethinking time.

Well it's more about how wasteful you can be.

Do you have the mana to buff everyone with every buff and still have mana left for keeping everyone perma hasted as well as throwing down max/emped firewalls at every mob, even a full caster will probably not be able to do this.

Do you buff only yourself and haste/firewall only when it's really needed.

Do you buff yourself with every possible buff, spam scorching ray at the first mob you encounter, grab aggro, kite badly, get hurt alot.

Do you identify a good melee, make sure to not get unnecessary aggro, buff said melee.

etc. etc.

The fine points of playing a caster enabling a experienced player to put less mana to more use. =)

Point being that having less mana you need to carefully evaluate when and on what to use it, making it more challenging and fun to play imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trillea

The way I see you doing it is this - drop an extended sleet storm in front of you. Target a monster in the distance, smack with chain missiles, he and his buddies will come for you. Jump in sleet storm. They will get slowed and blinded in the storm, while you are swinging away, getting full sneak attack damage with every swing, while they are burning in a firewall you drop on them, and missing you 1/2 the time due to being blind. Don't forget that you are hasted, have extra swing speed, and are having a lot of fun...

For me that would be a self-crashing build. Am I the only player whose visibility and FPS drop to near zero every time a sleet storm goes off? Partying up with someone who liked casting them is my idea of a nightmare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battrick

For me that would be a self-crashing build. Am I the only player whose visibility and FPS drop to near zero every time a sleet storm goes off? Partying up with someone who liked casting them is my idea of a nightmare.

The visual effect doesn't affect you if it is a friendly cast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelabb

I hope I never upset you. I apologise in advance, just in case. Having said that, it does sound like fun.

>:) Remind me some time to share what I did one time to a group that was griefing me when the level cap was 10... MUHAHAHAHA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battrick

For me that would be a self-crashing build. Am I the only player whose visibility and FPS drop to near zero every time a sleet storm goes off? Partying up with someone who liked casting them is my idea of a nightmare.

All is relative, back in the days spells such as sleet storm and solid fog used to have the same visual impairment when cast by players as when cast by mobs. Compared to how they used to be and the fact that you could cope with them when they we're bad, the current, friendly version, isn't that much of a hassle ;)

There are ways to cope if you find the AOEs to be visually impairing, fight at the edge. As long as you take care to reposition yourself, you can keep the mobs in the AOE without getting affected yourself. Can be somewhat tricky unless you have room to maneuver. One option when room is scarce is to run past a bunch of mobs to get aggro, run round a corner, to void caster LOS, place the sleet storm so that it leaves a wedge for you to stand in. When mobs come running they will be affected by the sleet storm while you are not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trillea

>:) Remind me some time to share what I did one time to a group that was griefing me when the level cap was 10... MUHAHAHAHA.

This one time, in TS...when prepping the drow ambush area...a buddy and mine kinda...went a wee bit overboard with the AOEs...Hypnotic pattern and solid fog absolutely everywhere...