Single Weapon Fighting

Why can't we get some incentive towards using only one weapon?
Everywhere I look, people have both hands occupied. Wouldnt it be alot more stylish and logical for some of us to only carry a longsword and nothing else? If I know anything about melee fighting it is that having a free hand can mean give you a real advantage; especially if you aren't only fighting, but also climbing, swimming and generally have alot to think about.
I don't mean that this fighting style should be superior in any way, just that it would make alot of sense to apply some boni to those who are very elligible to using a single weapon.

A prominent example would be bards or rogues; wouldn't it be a very nice possibility to use a single rapier, like a duelist (not meant to do the same as the prestige class, though a duelist prestige enhancement could also be a nice addition). The bards hunt for mithral light shields; why not give them another option?

Having only one weapon means you can afford better accuracy, and provide a higher degree of concentration when parrying. Power Attack gives off double the damage bonus when you are wielding two-handed weapons, why cant Combat Expertise give off double the AC when you are using only one weapon?

Another suggestion would be to add a "Single Weapon Fighting" feat line, like the TWF and THF feats. SWF would probably then increase the users AC and perhaps increase the critical threat range in the "greater" version of the feats.

I know this isnt a critical add-on to the game, but I think it would be a enjoyable and an easily programmable feature.

- Caervas

Cool idea man - I can dig it.

There is already incentive for this. Even with TWF, Improved TWF, and Oversized TWF you still get a better attack bonus with only one weapon. But you miss out on the extra attack with the off-hand.

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Originally Posted by Tilliak

There is already incentive for this. Even with TWF, Improved TWF, and Oversized TWF you still get a better attack bonus with only one weapon. But you miss out on the extra attack with the off-hand.

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I think you are missing the point. Compare using 1 weapon and using 1 weapon + shield. There is literally no reason to not use a shield - except that maybe you don't really benefit from it either.

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Originally Posted by Caervas

Why can't we get some incentive towards using only one weapon?
Everywhere I look, people have both hands occupied. Wouldnt it be alot more stylish and logical for some of us to only carry a longsword and nothing else?

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I would really enjoy having that feature for aethestic reasons, and could point out numerous suggestions to help it happen, many of them taken from the D&D 3.5 rulebooks. There's the Duelist, Swashbuckler, and Blade Bravo classes, the Twistcloth item, Improved CE, and other possible bases.

However, it would be a big mistake to devote any developer attention towards creating yet another fighting style when multiple existing styles are in need of serious improvement. There are serious problems with shields, longbows, repeaters, dark monks, and even offensive casters. Not only do all of them deserve to be finished before any thought is given to one-handed combat, but there's also the matter of missing or ineffective specialty enhancements, combat feats, and spells.

DDO doesn't have the luxury to add an option like this in the forseeable future.

I agree with you there angelus dead! This was mainly a little suggestion which can be kept in the back of their heads when there is less to do on the "critical improvements" list. It should even be easy to implement.

Single Weapon used to be a weapon specialization once upon a time. Not sure if was 2, 3, or 3.5.

Also in PnP you could use 2 hands on a single hand weapon to get the added Str bonus. I don't remember if that was a feat thing, or anyone could do it. It's been a few years. The advantage to this is a free hand and still be able to use the off-hand for something. Easiest way to impliment this in-game would be give the 2h str bonus if you are fighting single-handed.

Finally, in Ultima Online, you had to have a free hand to drink potions. I don't think anyone wants that "fix" but in PnP typically a DM would likely require a free hand for partial actions such drinking if you dont have a free hand. I always made my players at least drop thier off-hand weapon if they wanted to use to use an accessible item.

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Originally Posted by Tilliak

There is already incentive for this. Even with TWF, Improved TWF, and Oversized TWF you still get a better attack bonus with only one weapon. But you miss out on the extra attack with the off-hand.

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did he say oversized twf?

:p

This was brought up in KotOR, dueling I think it was. Had three tiers of a feat, and gave a +1 bonus at each tier to Hit and AC.

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Originally Posted by Keldain

Single Weapon used to be a weapon specialization once upon a time. Not sure if was 2, 3, or 3.5.

Also in PnP you could use 2 hands on a single hand weapon to get the added Str bonus. I don't remember if that was a feat thing, or anyone could do it. It's been a few years. The advantage to this is a free hand and still be able to use the off-hand for something. Easiest way to impliment this in-game would be give the 2h str bonus if you are fighting single-handed.

Finally, in Ultima Online, you had to have a free hand to drink potions. I don't think anyone wants that "fix" but in PnP typically a DM would likely require a free hand for partial actions such drinking if you dont have a free hand. I always made my players at least drop thier off-hand weapon if they wanted to use to use an accessible item.

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That would be 2e, I think there were some tactical feats for single weapon use though in 3.5.

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Originally Posted by Samadhi

I think you are missing the point. Compare using 1 weapon and using 1 weapon + shield. There is literally no reason to not use a shield - except that maybe you don't really benefit from it either.

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I got rid of my shield. Even with only a 5% arcane fail, I still hit that, couldn't stand it, and in combat when you are trying to cast something and miss, it is always the worst possible moment.

I just use a longsword.

I have asked around to improve this area and have decided to swap SF:haggle for a THF and will start using THF to help my damage. Someone mentioned that there are some two handers that will help with my spells.

I could see a use for a single hander profeciancy if there are some single handed weapons that help with the spell casting.

Maybe have an animation using the free hand to grab a critter by it's scruff and have your character then run them through the gut or neck with their single handed weapon while you have a hold of the critter with your free hand.

If I remember correctly, doesn't the Swordmage class get benefits from just using a single one-handed weapon (since the off-hand is used to cast spells and such ;) )?


Perhaps that could be implemented at the same time, and be designed to take advantage of these new SWF feats (if they get added)? Similar to how Tempest works when only using a single weapon, this would provide extra AC, perhaps improved attack speed as well?

Something to think about.

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Originally Posted by Keldain

Single Weapon used to be a weapon specialization once upon a time. Not sure if was 2, 3, or 3.5.

Also in PnP you could use 2 hands on a single hand weapon to get the added Str bonus. I don't remember if that was a feat thing, or anyone could do it. It's been a few years. The advantage to this is a free hand and still be able to use the off-hand for something. Easiest way to impliment this in-game would be give the 2h str bonus if you are fighting single-handed.

Finally, in Ultima Online, you had to have a free hand to drink potions. I don't think anyone wants that "fix" but in PnP typically a DM would likely require a free hand for partial actions such drinking if you dont have a free hand. I always made my players at least drop thier off-hand weapon if they wanted to use to use an accessible item.

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Here are the rules in pnp, quoted from d20srd.org


A light weapon is easier to use in one’s off hand than a one-handed weapon is, and it can be used while grappling. A light weapon is used in one hand. Add the wielder’s Strength bonus (if any) to damage rolls for melee attacks with a light weapon if it’s used in the primary hand, or one-half the wielder’s Strength bonus if it’s used in the off hand. Using two hands to wield a light weapon gives no advantage on damage; the Strength bonus applies as though the weapon were held in the wielder’s primary hand only.

An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.

A one-handed weapon can be used in either the primary hand or the off hand. Add the wielder’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a one-handed weapon if it’s used in the primary hand, or ½ his or her Strength bonus if it’s used in the off hand. If a one-handed weapon is wielded with two hands during melee combat, add 1½ times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls.

Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1½ times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon.

I'm aware of the rules already on this point. My ambition was to make a comparison to the fact that we have a two-handed fighting style, that is not covered by the rules, this of course makes it even less appealing to use a single weapon and nothing else.

Spellcasters in PnP would likely need one hand free to cast, yes. This is not the case in DDO tho, as almost everyone uses two scepters (or other spell enhancing weapons). The only prestige class I know of that was designed for warrior mages that use one weapon and casting with the other, would be the Bladesinger (Yes, of course it shoulda been the elven prestige Enh. ;-) ).

Using KOTOR's system might not be the best option for this game; though it might work. +1 to hit and +1 dodge bonus to AC is a good way to implement the feats. I still say its even more logical that Combat Expertise provides double the AC bonus; like Power Attack does for two-handed weapon users.

In fact, there are alot of ways to solve this: Improving CE, adding feats (SWF) of some sort, or even adding prestige enhancements that can be elligible for more than one class (See Duelist -This one should definetly be available to more classes than fighter). There are surely even more ways to increase the incentive for players to use a single weapon; if not only for the awesome aestethic feature of being laidback enough to only use one weapon.

I don't mean that single weapon fighting should be superior in any way, just to make it better than it is now (Neither more damage than TWF, or more AC than sword and board).

Oh, and Single Weapon Style was implemented in Baldurs Gate 2, so it is probably from 2nd Ed./AD&D. It provided a +1 AC bonus on the first "star" and a second one provided +1 critical threat range on weapons.

Never say never.

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Originally Posted by Ykt

Never say never.

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It wasn't until the third post that I went back and checked the timestamp and realized this wasn't a parody post.

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Originally Posted by Caervas

If I know anything about melee fighting it is that having a free hand can mean give you a real advantage

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in how many situations of melee fighting with 1 or 2 melee weapons have you been involved to claim you know anything about it?