Eladrin - Slicing Blow Bug

Hey man... tested out the new version of slicing blow and it has an issue.

It seems that the slicing damage isn't paying attention to what type of weapon incurred it, so the mobs dr isn't being bypassed. (tried with a +5 transmuting of PG, a holy good burst good blast greensteel, and a radiance II)

The easiest to see what I am talking about is go into the vale, and head over towards rainbow... go attack one of the trolls with slicing.

The con damage goes off, but the slicing effect comes up as 0's over the trolls head.

So far I have noticed it with trogs, trolls, and some of the monsters in the new content, I am sure there are others however.

Clarification please?

Ok Eladrin upon further testing it is confirmed.

While the use of the proper weapon allows you to bypass dr on the initial hit and applies the con damage... the Bleed effect does not hold that information... so if the mob has bypassable dr the bleed will not bypass it even tho it was dealt by an appropriate source originally, and the 6 tics of 1d4 damage just appear as lil 0's floating above the mobs head.

Is it going to be possible to fix it? or is this working as intended? (which I don't imagine it is)

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Originally Posted by The_Phenx

Ok Eladrin upon further testing it is confirmed.

While the use of the proper weapon allows you to bypass dr on the initial hit and applies the con damage... the Bleed effect does not hold that information... so if the mob has native dr the bleed will not bypass it even tho it was dealt by an appropriate source originally, and the 6 tics of 1d4 damage just appear as lil 0's floating above the mobs head.

Is it going to be possible to fix it? or is this working as intended? (which I don't imagine it is)

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I would imagine it is working as intended. The bleed effect is not a Damage over time that comes from the weapon you use, or a magical effect but rather from the creature you attack bleeding.

DR in a roleplaying sense is a creatures ability to shrug off damage, avoid damage even if hit, or the ability to regenerate small wounds quickly. The damage from slicing blow is typically very small and most creatures would be able to ignore it.

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Originally Posted by Turial

I would imagine it is working as intended. The bleed effect is not a Damage over time that comes from the weapon you use, or a magical effect but rather from the creature you attack bleeding.

DR in a roleplaying sense is a creatures ability to shrug off damage, avoid damage even if hit, or the ability to regenerate small wounds quickly. The damage from slicing blow is typically very small and most creatures would be able to ignore it.

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Nope... I have to disagree.. there is a difference between native dr, and bypassable dr.

Your speaking of the native dr that certain monsters have naturally...earth elementals for example.

Other mobs just take a certain weapon combination to bypass...like holy + cold iron to damage a flesh render. The wound is caused by a weapon that bypasses their magical damage resistance... so the bleeding should occur...

Bump for attention.

I was doing some talking with a guildie last night, and this is the EXACT same issue that the 1d4 the tempest ranger set has.

My guess was they duped the coding for both. That 1d4 does not take the weapon that delt it into consideration, and therefore does NOT bypass dr.

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Originally Posted by Turial

I would imagine it is working as intended.

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The current behavior is contrary to the D&D rules. DR is supposed to apply only against attacks, and the tick of a Slicing Blow DOT is not an attack.

(Note that DDO also breaks that rule regarding traps)

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Originally Posted by The_Phenx

My guess was they duped the coding for both. That 1d4 does not take the weapon that delt it into consideration, and therefore does NOT bypass dr.

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It's not supposed to consider the kind of weapon used. The only time DR should be checked on Slicing Blow (or any other special attack effect) is on the initial hit, which can negate the effect if the attack is reduced to zero damage. Afterwards the DOT should directly reduce hitpoints without caring about DR.

Note that this bug has been there forever, and it is generally a bonus for the players, helping them resist mobs with slicing throwing weapons (especially since you can shield block)

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Originally Posted by The_Phenx

Bump for attention.

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Why do you want attention?

I mean, what will that accomplish? The Slicing Blow feat is virtually useless due to fundamental design flaws in the amount of damage it provides, and the DR thing is a minor sidelight in comparison. If they're going to pay attention to Slicing Blow, their first priority should be to make it worth the time spent reaching for the icon.

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Originally Posted by Angelus_dead

Why do you want attention?

I mean, what will that accomplish? The Slicing Blow feat is virtually useless due to fundamental design flaws in the amount of damage it provides, and the DR thing is a minor sidelight in comparison. If they're going to pay attention to Slicing Blow, their first priority should be to make it worth the time spent reaching for the icon.

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Because its actually a nice lil bit of dps... -1 con and 6 shots of 1d4 over 12 secconds is great for those long drawn out boss fights.

If it worked however... which it doesn't sadly... I was going to be using it on my acrobat... but now its just a matter of switching out to something else.

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Originally Posted by The_Phenx

Because its actually a nice lil bit of dps... -1 con and 6 shots of 1d4 over 12 secconds is great for those long drawn out boss fights.

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No, it is not "great", or "good", or even "kinda OKish". The reality is that it is pitifully weak.

A melee DOT effect is an interesting gameplay mechanic DDO might use, but the Slicing Blow feat is currently inadequate to provide it.

If it's a "drawn out" boss fight, then the con damage doesn't matter, because someone already hit him with Wound Punct down to the cap of 10 con damage. So Slicing Blow is left as 1d4*6 = about 15 or 18 damage, with a cooldown of 15 seconds. Divide those numbers and we see it gives either 1 DPS or 1.2 DPS.

How much damage is a character doing already? 150 DPS, or 200, or 350? I'm not totally sure how the recent attack animation patch changed things, but even for a character on the low end of the scale, Slicing Blow would be barely detectable compared to all the other damage. Spending the feat on Weapon Focus or Power Critical might even be better, and even Toughness would tend to raise your DPS (because dead character can't attack)

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Originally Posted by Angelus_dead

A melee DOT effect is an interesting gameplay mechanic DDO might use, but the Slicing Blow feat is currently inadequate to provide it.

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In the past I have repeatedly made suggestions to fix Slicing Blow to the point of being a helpful feat choice. Those changes are summarized below:

1. Whenever a character is subject to multiple non-stacking DOTs, the one doing the highest damage takes precedence on a per-tick basis. Players should not have to worry that attacking with a DOT might defend the enemy from a stronger DOT from a teammate. (There are multiple software programming approaches that could be used to change this)

2. Damage Reduction does not apply to Slicing Blow, except that the entire effect might be nullified if the initial attack was reduced to zero damage.

3. Increase the damage of Slicing Blow ticks by adding a quantity based on your strength and dexterity modifiers (such as the average of them, or something)

4. Anyone with the Slicing Blow feat who attacks a target suffering Slicing Blow does 1d2 extra damage.

5. Weapons with Tendon Slice increase the damage of your Slicing Blow ticks.

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Originally Posted by Angelus_dead

No, it is not "great", or "good", or even "kinda OKish". The reality is that it is pitifully weak.

A melee DOT effect is an interesting gameplay mechanic DDO might use, but the Slicing Blow feat is currently inadequate to provide it.

If it's a "drawn out" boss fight, then the con damage doesn't matter, because someone already hit him with Wound Punct down to the cap of 10 con damage. So Slicing Blow is left as 1d4*6 = about 15 or 18 damage, with a cooldown of 15 seconds. Divide those numbers and we see it gives either 1 DPS or 1.2 DPS.

How much damage is a character doing already? 150 DPS, or 200, or 350? I'm not totally sure how the recent attack animation patch changed things, but even for a character on the low end of the scale, Slicing Blow would be barely detectable compared to all the other damage. Spending the feat on Weapon Focus or Power Critical might even be better, and even Toughness would tend to raise your DPS (because dead character can't attack)

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Points taken into account.. but how much grind do people do for a min II vs a +5 transmuting of PG...

ANY extra dps is good dps...if you really have nothing else worthwhile to burn a feat on.

That being said... it would have to work, it should function like wounding.. if your strike doesnt deal damage it doesn't work...

And the con damage is still nice.. if no one is w/p or if your soloing...

Some of your fixes sound nice... I would prefer a 1d4 with a 6 seccond cool down... so you could stack multiple strikes vs one single opponent...

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Originally Posted by The_Phenx

Some of your fixes sound nice... I would prefer a 1d4 with a 6 seccond cool down... so you could stack multiple strikes vs one single opponent...

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Yuck, an icon I need to click every 6 seconds?

That's backwards from the direction changes should go: Increase the power of Slicing Blow, and raise the cooldown as needed to make it balanced. Making me spam something to use it isn't fun; what's desired is an ability whose use is an interesting tactical choice, not an obligation whenever the cooldown expires.

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Originally Posted by The_Phenx

And the con damage is still nice.. if no one is w/p or if your soloing...

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1 or 2 con damage every 15 seconds is not really noticeable.

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Originally Posted by Angelus_dead

Yuck, an icon I need to click every 6 seconds?

That's backwards from the direction changes should go: Increase the power of Slicing Blow, and raise the cooldown as needed to make it balanced. Making me spam something to use it isn't fun; what's desired is an ability whose use is an interesting tactical choice, not an obligation whenever the cooldown expires.

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:) have you played a monk... they are ALL clickie attacks.

The con damage is especially desirable in my case since an acrobats primary weapon is a quarterstaff. As of yet they do not exist with a wounding version... this allows me to accomplish that goal (albeit a very small ammount) without having to fall out of character and use kamas.

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Originally Posted by Angelus_dead

1 or 2 con damage every 15 seconds is not really noticeable.

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Not really no... but on a cr 28 red named its still an additional "28" points of damage per se... and when you get 6d4 on top of it for clicking one button,

It's really fairly decent... how would you feel if you got a sword that said on its first attack it did an addition 6d4+28... you would be thrilled.

I would just like it to work, in whatever form that takes.