Reaper xp: better at lvl 30 or at heroic lvls?

[Fanaval]

Hi,

As we know from this post https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/488761-Reaper-xp-you-get-in-a-full-life it is possible to do about 120-150k heroic Xp leveling 1-20 in about 24 hours.

How many RXP is possible to do in Epic (considering the new double bonus on rxp for quests lvl 30 and above) in 24 hours doing quests of lvl 30-34? (without first time bonus).

Do you think it is better to run potions at heroic levels to also benefit from Racial past lives or run potions at lvl 30 to maximize the reaper XP and do no more heroic xp?
(Please take in account that it is more easy to find a full group for high skulls at cap)

Thanks.

[JOTMON]

Heroics easily blows away RXP generated.
On one toon I have completed my 33 lives of Racial TR'ing and obtained about 3 million RXP giving 55 Reaper points.
My other toon that I kept at cap raiding and running Legendary content (including Reaper 10's) I have obtained just under 400K RXP (19 points).
Both have been run about the same amount of overall time.

I have obtained 10x the RXP doing heroic levelling for the same relative amount of playing time on both toons...


There are several factors.

The Reaper XP formula is fundamentally flawed.
~Base Reaper XP = 50 + 3 * (quest level on normal) * (number of skulls) * Length bonus (0.8 for short, 1 for medium, 1.2 for long, 1.4 for very long) ~

1. Legendary Levels where the content gets longer and comparably more difficult at level is not appropriately rewarded.

2. RXP/min.
Heroic content is completed much more quickly via TR lives. Epic XP pays better RXP/quest, but the RXP/min declines significantly

3. Over level penalties.
The over level penalties screw RXP deterring players from running Reaper XP in higher level content
for instance. Epic XP in Von 5 (a level 22 epic quest) can be run level 20-30.. no penalties..,
in Reaper however, a level 23 player incurs a 20% penalty, a level 24 player incurs a 50% penalty, a level 28 player incurrs a 95% penalty, and level 29/30 players are just screwed since they are locked out completely.

4. XP pots.
Great for quick content since you optimize your xp/min.
In higher levels where content is run in a variety of difficulties and content is much longer duration due to increased difficulty pot usage suffers.
Higher level Reaper content exponentially increases in quest time in high level content.
There is no pause button for XP pots.
which results in pots being overly expensive when running Epic levels, and pointless when running Legendary levels.

5. player capabilities..
More players are capable of running Reaper in heroic content than in Epic or Legendary content.
This results in a smaller pool of capable players running high level content in Reaper , let alone higher level reaper difficulty.
Good players can solo low level content in reaper and carry weaker players through, in higher levels there is less buffer range.. In legendary there is no room for it.
Epics end up getting dropped down in Reaper or even down to Elites for those of us not sucked into dailies of EN/EH.. to just get through the content or levelling off destinies.

6. Heroic content can be run at at level with higher skulls with lower failure risk and pace can be easily adjusted for RXP/min running first time bonuses without any need to repeat any content, optimizing all bonuses.
Epic Content is much more of a slug fest and snail crawl pace.
Capped toon RXP/min drops significantly losing ground due to in quest time, loss of bonuses while being stuck repeating limited at level content.


I would look at a couple primary factors to correct the player range RXP.

1. The formula should be better adjusted to add a multiplier for Epic and Legendary difficulty.

2. change the Reaper XP penalty calculation..
a. remove the lockout... the 95% penalty hit is already punitive enough.
b. instead of player level vs quest base to scale penalties..
Take player level vs (Quest level + Reaper Skulls)

In the example of Von5 above...
instead of locking out level 29 and 30 players and 95% penalty to having level 28 players...
quest level 22 +Reaper 8 skulls and no lockout means level 30 players can enter Von5 and still get Reaper XP... lower the skulls and penalties apply..

This way, to run Von 5 with level 30 players you would have to run Reaper 8 skulls to incur no penalty and obtain full base RXP.
This would allow players to run all available content instead of screwing over level players out of being able to run content in reaper difficulty that they can run in non-reaper without penalty.

Players can then broaden their play range and actually play content in Reaper mode on their capped toons beyond the few Legendary at level quests they are stuck with without having to TR.

[Pilgrim1]

Fist time bonuses favor once and done content playing as oposed to playing at cap.

[blerkington]

My experience is that the gap is not nearly as big as it used to be. The system still favours getting rxp through heroic levelling, but especially with the addition of Ravenloft, trying to get rxp at cap is not such an exercise in futility anymore.

If you're done with heroics try assembling a regular group from your guild/channel/friends list and working out what your limit is for at how many skulls you can do cap quests. One argument in favour of playing at cap is you (may) have your best gear and do have your full range of class and ED abilities to use. You also accumulate gear that is useful for sentient weapon food (including a second gem for another weapon and/or as food for when more gem slots are unlocked) and possibly also crafting materials.

Before Ravenloft came out, I had some sessions that gave around 50k rxp running cap quests, which was more than I expected. Those were repeats with the daily bonus and lower value xp potions, but the group had strong instakillers, good dps and an effective method for running quests. But it would certainly be possible to do better than that, especially now.

Losing the first time bonus and probable longer average completion times (consuming more xp potions, if you use them) are two very good arguments not to stay at cap. I think it's dreary to keep on playing heroic content just for rxp if you already have all the past life feats you want but you may not mind it. Anyway, try it and see, you may find it works well enough for you to seem like a good alternative.

Take care.

[Elfishski]

Hi,

As we know from this post https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/488761-Reaper-xp-you-get-in-a-full-life it is possible to do about 120-150k heroic Xp leveling 1-20 in about 24 hours.

How many RXP is possible to do in Epic (considering the new double bonus on rxp for quests lvl 30 and above) in 24 hours doing quests of lvl 30-34? (without first time bonus).

Do you think it is better to run potions at heroic levels to also benefit from Racial past lives or run potions at lvl 30 to maximize the reaper XP and do no more heroic xp?
(Please take in account that it is more easy to find a full group for high skulls at cap)

Thanks.

I'd say it depends on your playstyle and which order of magnitude on the DPS continuum you sit at...

If you can zerg high skulls through a heroic/epic TR then first time bonuses at legendary and repeat in an all-warlock-all-the-time group then that's probably the fastest way to get reaper xp, but if you'd otherwise be doing R1/2 at a modest pace through heroics left to your own devices then you'll easily get 10x as much in legendary quests joining groups that are doing stuff like a daily R10 amber at cap.

Just pick whichever option will be more fun while you're doing it, I'd recommend, and if that gets boring then mix it up and do the other option :)

[SirValentine]

Is that the right questions? How much are doing stuff for only RXP?

Heroic you can get both RXP and earn PLs. At cap, you can get RXP and also raid & farm gear. Which do you need more, or do you need both?

Personally I dislike the idea of spending much time/effort solely on farming RXP, but I've racked up lots of RXP while doing other stuff.

[Enoach]

I would say at this time the 1 to 20 game is still better for the Rxp earning. The point that you are earning other bonuses, finite as they are (there are only so many past lives), is part of the draw.

While there are now more level 30 quests reducing the over level penalty, I still think the Epic Rxp amounts compared to Heroic are still not fully on par with each other.

That being said, I think the latest changes in epic as well as more higher level content is moving in the right direction.

[HungarianRhapsody]

If you can run Ravenloft quests on R3, then you'll get really nice RXP from that at cap. If you're running VoN3 R1 at cap... then you're not getting any Reaper XP.

The real question for me isn't "What gives more Reaper XP?" The real question for me is "What stuff that I would be doing anyway is going to give me good Reaper XP?"

And that depends on what my character and I can successfully run much more than it depends on any XP formula. If you're doing Ravenloft R3 quests in 20 minutes or less, that's awesome. Keep doing that. If you're doing quests 4 levels below you in 40 minutes at cap... then your RXP won't be great and you should try to get the XP in Heroics.

[JOTMON]

If you can run Ravenloft quests on R3, then you'll get really nice RXP from that at cap. If you're running VoN3 R1 at cap... then you're not getting any Reaper XP.

The real question for me isn't "What gives more Reaper XP?" The real question for me is "What stuff that I would be doing anyway is going to give me good Reaper XP?"

And that depends on what my character and I can successfully run much more than it depends on any XP formula. If you're doing Ravenloft R3 quests in 20 minutes or less, that's awesome. Keep doing that. If you're doing quests 4 levels below you in 40 minutes at cap... then your RXP won't be great and you should try to get the XP in Heroics.


No one is running Reaper Von's at cap.
You cant run any of the Vons with capped toons, They are level 22 quests. level 29 and level 30 toons are locked out of Reaper difficulty of this content.
Capped toons are screwed out of being able to run a large spectrum of content in reaper difficulty that they can run in non-reaper by Dev design.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
here is a Reaper experience over-level penalty (from the base level of a dungeon or raid) as follows:
+1 - 20%
+2 - 50% (typical Bravery Bonus maximum level for Heroic)
+3 - 70%
+4 - 80%
+5 - 90%
+6 - 95%
More than 6 levels = locked out
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~

The penalties are steep and the lockout is overly punitive.
Whether its Reaper 1 or Reaper 10, the penalties are applied based on quest base level vs the player level.
The skull selection has no factoring into being able to run the content, in my opinion the skull selection should factor into the equation.

[Enoach]

...Capped toons are screwed out of being able to run a large spectrum of content in reaper difficulty that they can run in non-reaper by Dev design.

...

This is the crux of the problem with Rxp in the Epic Capped area.

This is why area's like Ravenloft make a good effort in this area as it opens up more questing options for capped characters.


Technically, Level 18 to 20 Heroic Quests have a different issue in that you cannot do them on Reaper as a level 20.

[SirValentine]

Technically, Level 18 to 20 Heroic Quests have a different issue in that you cannot do them on Reaper as a level 20.

I haven't tried ToD or Heroic LoB, but you can do Dreaming Dark on Reaper at 20.

[Enoach]

I haven't tried ToD or Heroic LoB, but you can do Dreaming Dark on Reaper at 20.

I will have to check that out, for some reason I have a memory of not being able to get into Dreaming Dark Reaper on my level 20. Going to have to check this out for sure as that quest would be much easier with destinies :).

[Mglaxix]

I am running off my 11th racial life on my main currently averaged 140k rxp heroic easily hitting most content and could see hitting 160-180k rxp with all heroic content. I don't do 24 hour lives anymore I am enjoying reaper way to much now.

Epic Rxp achieved without BB thus far is close to 400k rxp on my 11th life. That's from 20-30 of course with little to no BB bonus since I ran most off in heroics as well.

Next life I will be avoiding all epic content at heroic levels to see how the rxp stacks up differently in epics. I would rather burn my first time bb bonus on heroic only content if I can pull 600k+ rxp in epics alone. Paying over 90k+ per reaper point I see less and less need to run full heroic rxp lives.

So that means in one life from 1-30 I obtained over 600k rxp with little to no trouble. Burning mostly 20% pots and at 30 burning a 50% is a nice boost when your rxp is doubled first time thru.

There are adjustments to be made in heroic and epics to make reaper smoother...... I have run wizard, cleric, druid, paladin, fighter, and warlock in reaper. I have seen plenty of other classes perform well in reaper as well. Party makeup of course will dictate tactics, speed, and skull level run.

I had no problems at all putting up an LFM and pugging most of the epic content on reaper at all. I can't say I carried the group but contributed what I could where and when I could. I ran most of the epic content off on R3-5 since it was my first life trying epic reaper from 20+ having completed most of this content now I would feel more comfortable next life hitting it at R5+ at level with a decent group.

I can't say I see a lot of at level epic reaper LFM's yet but they are starting to pop up more now. If you don't post them and don't run them then you'll never know if you can do them anyway and no one can join an unposted LFM.

[Mglaxix]

Heroics easily blows away RXP generated.
On one toon I have completed my 33 lives of Racial TR'ing and obtained about 3 million RXP giving 55 Reaper points.
My other toon that I kept at cap raiding and running Legendary content (including Reaper 10's) I have obtained just under 400K RXP (19 points).
Both have been run about the same amount of overall time.

Your not taking into account that your BB is resetting on each new life...... you cap toon has a single one time BB bonus at best....


I have obtained 10x the RXP doing heroic levelling for the same relative amount of playing time on both toons...

That makes perfect sense.... See above.



There are several factors.

The Reaper XP formula is fundamentally flawed.
~Base Reaper XP = 50 + 3 * (quest level on normal) * (number of skulls) * Length bonus (0.8 for short, 1 for medium, 1.2 for long, 1.4 for very long) ~

1. Legendary Levels where the content gets longer and comparably more difficult at level is not appropriately rewarded.

Thats funny i thought they doubled the first time rxp on legendary ( 30 + ) content.


2. RXP/min.
Heroic content is completed much more quickly via TR lives. Epic XP pays better RXP/quest, but the RXP/min declines significantly

Heroic rxp/min avg is 100/min R3-6 Epic rxp/min 100-200/min til capped then it can break 300+/min R3-5+ so how does it decline per minute exactly. I screenshot my entire last life so the proof is in the pictures.


3. Over level penalties.
The over level penalties screw RXP deterring players from running Reaper XP in higher level content
for instance. Epic XP in Von 5 (a level 22 epic quest) can be run level 20-30.. no penalties..,
in Reaper however, a level 23 player incurs a 20% penalty, a level 24 player incurs a 50% penalty, a level 28 player incurrs a 95% penalty, and level 29/30 players are just screwed since they are locked out completely.

In Epics at level 30 in Von 5 you lose your BB bonus so please don't claim there is no penalty. There is to anyone who hasn't run it yet... for BB.

Any of those capped toons can ETR and run any epic content to their hearts content gaining Rxp with no penalty just fine.


4. XP pots.
Great for quick content since you optimize your xp/min.
In higher levels where content is run in a variety of difficulties and content is much longer duration due to increased difficulty pot usage suffers.
Higher level Reaper content exponentially increases in quest time in high level content.
There is no pause button for XP pots.
which results in pots being overly expensive when running Epic levels, and pointless when running Legendary levels.

Having run nearly all epic reaper content average finish under 35 minutes I don't see a problem with understanding when to let a pot expire and run longer content quests.


5. player capabilities..
More players are capable of running Reaper in heroic content than in Epic or Legendary content.
This results in a smaller pool of capable players running high level content in Reaper , let alone higher level reaper difficulty.
Good players can solo low level content in reaper and carry weaker players through, in higher levels there is less buffer range.. In legendary there is no room for it.
Epics end up getting dropped down in Reaper or even down to Elites for those of us not sucked into dailies of EN/EH.. to just get through the content or levelling off destinies.

That's comical at best had a first lifer swapping ED's that kept up just fine in R5 epic content. He was smart enough to heal and fall back as needed not rushing ahead and dead.
Everyone can heal in epics that's not even close to true in Heroics.



6. Heroic content can be run at at level with higher skulls with lower failure risk and pace can be easily adjusted for RXP/min running first time bonuses without any need to repeat any content, optimizing all bonuses.
Epic Content is much more of a slug fest and snail crawl pace.
Capped toon RXP/min drops significantly losing ground due to in quest time, loss of bonuses while being stuck repeating limited at level content.

I quit watching rxp xp per minute long ago... I watch my rxp xp per life per first time bonus etc....



I would look at a couple primary factors to correct the player range RXP.

1. The formula should be better adjusted to add a multiplier for Epic and Legendary difficulty.

2. change the Reaper XP penalty calculation..
a. remove the lockout... the 95% penalty hit is already punitive enough.
b. instead of player level vs quest base to scale penalties..
Take player level vs (Quest level + Reaper Skulls)

In the example of Von5 above...
instead of locking out level 29 and 30 players and 95% penalty to having level 28 players...
quest level 22 +Reaper 8 skulls and no lockout means level 30 players can enter Von5 and still get Reaper XP... lower the skulls and penalties apply..

So now after removing lockout all those players lose BB bonus for first time run thru hmmmmm...... do not like that at all....


This way, to run Von 5 with level 30 players you would have to run Reaper 8 skulls to incur no penalty and obtain full base RXP.
This would allow players to run all available content instead of screwing over level players out of being able to run content in reaper difficulty that they can run in non-reaper without penalty.

Screwed cap players out of max 52 quests. period. Lol.... 52 quests...... 2 of which are not even epic... leaving 90+ quest to run at cap and 10 skull levels each. So about 35% of epic quest cannot be run by a cap toon on reaper. And each update that will go down down down down in percentage.... and cap quests will continue to give double rxp first time bonus. Tell all those cap toons to cry me a river.


Players can then broaden their play range and actually play content in Reaper mode on their capped toons beyond the few Legendary at level quests they are stuck with without having to TR.

Let me know when you come up with a better way to penalize players who can run content at level on reaper than the thought process you are currently using.

[Ellihor]

If you have a party I belive atm it's faster to get more rxp at cap, but the problems are

- you need a party, unless you fry your brain in amber
- you don't get anything, while at heroics you get the pls
- the number of quests is very small and it gets tedious fast

But this is irrelevant compared to the bigger issue with rxp I see atm is how it doesn't scale enough with skulls, making the optimal rxp/min at 6-7 skulls where it's a zerg, except that one quest already mentioned.

The rxp should be exponentially with skulls, not linear.

But to solve the heroic vs epic is simple:

Remove first time bonus, bravery and streak bonuses from the reaper xp formula, then give these bonuses for everyone, or a bit lower than what it actually does.

[BandVP]

I believe reaper xp at level 30 is better than heroic. This is because at heroic levells you much be very specific about who joins your pug/party as you do not want to loose out on reaper xp, however at level 30 with legendary content such as ravenloft you cannot loose out on reaper xp.

Not only this but with groups, your pugs should (most of the time) be filling faster at level 30 as more people are at endgame as in heroics people are always levelling.

[Tilomere]

The Reaper XP formula is fundamentally flawed.
~Base Reaper XP = 50 + 3 * (quest level on normal) * (number of skulls) * Length bonus (0.8 for short, 1 for medium, 1.2 for long, 1.4 for very long) ~

So if I'm reading this right, in heroics one could be zerging R1 as fast as possible, piling mobs up to alert and AoEing them down. Just go for the 50 base RXP.

With an average heroic quest level of 10, this gives 80 RXP at R1, +30 per additional skull. One would have to go to R4 to double heroic RXP. But one can pile to red alert on R1 and AoE them down at once, making it much faster than twice as fast as R4. Plus due to damage reduction formula you deal more than twice the damage on R1 as R4.


Reaper 1 skull 1428 dmg = 71,4%
Reaper 2 skull 1052 dmg = 52,6%
Reaper 3 skull 770 dmg = 38,5%
Reaper 4 skull 572 dmg = 28,6% << takes over 2x as long to dps something down than R1.

[Kaboom2112]

It's more FUN at cap. That's what's most important.

[cru121]

It's more FUN at cap.
No.

[Tilomere]

It's more FUN at cap. That's what's most important.

If I was going to finish past lives, to go to cap and stay, then doing a quest twice at R1 over two different lives instead of once on R4 gets me to cap 2x as fast, and the same amount of RXP per time.

Now I understand why I mostly see just R1 in heroics.

[mikarddo]

So if I'm reading this right, in heroics one could be zerging R1 as fast as possible, piling mobs up to alert and AoEing them down. Just go for the 50 base RXP.

With an average heroic quest level of 10, this gives 80 RXP at R1, +30 per additional skull. One would have to go to R4 to double heroic RXP. But one can pile to red alert on R1 and AoE them down at once, making it much faster than twice as fast as R4. Plus due to damage reduction formula you deal more than twice the damage on R1 as R4.


Reaper 1 skull 1428 dmg = 71,4%
Reaper 2 skull 1052 dmg = 52,6%
Reaper 3 skull 770 dmg = 38,5%
Reaper 4 skull 572 dmg = 28,6% << takes over 2x as long to dps something down than R1.

Running to and from the quest still takes the same though and so does running within the quest.
Instakilling (assuming proper ability) also takes the same time and some mobs you simply overkill on R1 meaning they dont really take longer on R4 or not as much longer as the dps numbers would indicate.

So, its not as clear cut as measuring dps as thats only part of the equation. Some quests you can probably run using only 10% more time on R4 compared to R1 everything included even if the dps indicates that it should take more than twice as long, so its highly quest and group dependent.

As an example from some xp/min numbers I collected a while back - Ghost of Perdition took me roughly 8 mins on R1 grouped included getting to the quest and roughly 9 mins grouped on R3 so R3 is better rxp/min but worse xp/min for me in this case. This wasnt a controlled experiment but still shows concept.

[Cantor]

So if I'm reading this right, in heroics one could be zerging R1 as fast as possible, piling mobs up to alert and AoEing them down. Just go for the 50 base RXP.

With an average heroic quest level of 10, this gives 80 RXP at R1, +30 per additional skull. One would have to go to R4 to double heroic RXP. But one can pile to red alert on R1 and AoE them down at once, making it much faster than twice as fast as R4. Plus due to damage reduction formula you deal more than twice the damage on R1 as R4.


Reaper 1 skull 1428 dmg = 71,4%
Reaper 2 skull 1052 dmg = 52,6%
Reaper 3 skull 770 dmg = 38,5%
Reaper 4 skull 572 dmg = 28,6% << takes over 2x as long to dps something down than R1.

You've oversimplified. Run time through the world and through quests takes longer than DPS time.

It also doesn't make sense to look at the average and decide what to do. I agree that below level 6 or so, there is no reason to go above R1 unless it takes no additional time to complete. Depending on your group this may be r2-r4. But, if you run GH below R3 you are just throwing away rxp. By 17-19 completion times may start to spike as you increase skulls, or not, depending on group.

I tend to do R2-3 at low levels then R3-5 level 6-teens and maybe drop back to R2s or even R1s at 17 to rush the heroic exp excited about the next TR.

edit: bah, Mikarddo already made some of these points.

[Tilomere]

You've oversimplified.

We both did. There is also the matter of how cautiously you have to build/play in order to complete a quest on higher reaper. And wether or not you are playing on the default server, where your group mates are commonly first and second life characters who don't even know how to get to the quest.

For example, to have a high % chance of completing a harder quest R3 without dying, playing safely on a tanky build:

https://s22.postimg.cc/bkljt3g8x/Records_of_the_Past.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/b7u5mwxz1/)

Playing that same quest also R3 on a higher dps build, but death/jibbers death due to trying to play faster and being on a squishier build (should have built soundburst + falconry No Mercy into this)(It's been 5 years, think they can fix air savant caster levels to sonic spells soon?):

https://s22.postimg.cc/wj2qu2cxt/Screen_Shot00008.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/x8lj6fdh9/)

Dropping down to R1, zerging on a max dps build, with waiting on a guildy to zone in:

https://s22.postimg.cc/ipee54f8h/Screen_Shot00028.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/70aeh5o9p/)

Yes there is time running and gearing and leveling and hitting levers and stuff, but you can't avoid any of that time collecting your past lives anyways.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

lvl 30 wins @ about 300 rXP a minute in a static r10 group with NO pots. In heroics I think we were pulling 200 rXP a minute with pots. The doubling of rXP at cap put at cap play in motion.

It takes us 10 to 15min to do a Grim and Barret on r10 though. There are groups on Gland running the following quests daily:

Quest Progression (This is Pelc's):
Memoirs -> BIS stat helm
Grim and Barret
Multitude
Subversion
Mists
Death House
Amber x2 -> BIS dps cloak
Age of Rage -> BIS stat helm

That is 9 quests at about 4300 rXP a pop, without any pot.
That's 38700 rXP a day for about 2 hours of playing.

Say you did it 5 days a week, thats 193,500 rXP---or Reaper wings in 27 weeks.

Other quests are quite good:
Nightfalls on Stormreach (12-15min)
The Madness of Crowds (12-15min)
Oath of Vengeance (12-15min)

Quests you do on r7 for chance at reaper/mythic silent avenger stuff.
Fresh Baked Dreams (Armor) {15min}
The Final Vintage (Belt) {15min}
Sunrise (Robes) {20min}

[Shadow_Jumper]

lvl 30 wins @ about 300 rXP a minute in a static r10 group with NO pots. In heroics I think we were pulling 200 rXP a minute with pots. The doubling of rXP at cap put at cap play in motion.


For the more advanced RXP farmer:

Absolute best RXP per minute is R10 LHoX.

5-7 minutes, 17,000 RXP with 50% pot and first time bonus

[Sam-u-r-eye]

For the more advanced RXP farmer:

Absolute best RXP per minute is R10 LHoX.

5-7 minutes, 17,000 RXP with 50% pot and first time bonus

I see another rogue on the server with wings that's not you maaaaaan.
Am talkin' bout' sustainable yoooooooo, not silly fun stuff like thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaat

yo

<3

[Sam-u-r-eye]

https://youtu.be/JMRApEeMKdw

[Sam-u-r-eye]

(Advancement): You've been awarded 4,866 Reaper Experience Points for completing the dungeon on Reaper Mode! ~ 11min Memoirs
(Advancement): You've been awarded 5,637 Reaper Experience Points for completing the dungeon on Reaper Mode! ~ 9min Grim and Barret
(Advancement): You've been awarded 5,637 Reaper Experience Points for completing the dungeon on Reaper Mode! ~ 13min Multitude
(Advancement): You've been awarded 4,719 Reaper Experience Points for completing the dungeon on Reaper Mode! ~ 8.5min Subversion
(Advancement): You've been awarded 2,792 Reaper Experience Points for completing the dungeon on Reaper Mode! ~ 7min Into the Mists (I died, so -10%)

I didn't do the ambers and Age of Rage today.

The above is 487 rxp/min
Take away the 25% bonus from buddy and it goes a bit lower, but I didn't have a vom either. (So 20%.)

[Grandern_Marn]

The question is simply 'better at lvl 30 or heroics', there are no qualifiers for new players or anything.

With that in mind r10 at cap is the best rxp in game. The runs will take more time and you need a solid group but I've had some runs up around 9 or 10k rxp.

Heroics your kind of plinking along, 200rxp here, 41 there, sometime there are only elite runs in the lfms, you luck out and get an r4 where you get 500rxp.
It's pretty hit and miss, no way to really build up reaper points. I'll keep one of my 4 toons at cap and run raids and for reaper points while leveling the others.

[Tilomere]

You get the RXP every minute that I do every quest. Ahh well, so don't worry about RXP too much in heroics, it comes with sentient xp at cap.

Ty for sharing and paving the way! By the time I get through racials you can all just carry me through R10s. :)

[Adorse]

I don't play as often as I used to but I'm pretty sure RXP is easier to obtain in Heroics.

[psykopeta]

I don't play as often as I used to but I'm pretty sure RXP is easier to obtain in Heroics.

i was getting 50k rxp per day without pot on non buddy bonus days doing.... memoirs chain, house J all but toxic treatment, and RL 8 of them, not repeating amber, on r8-6 due to sometimes not having healer or cc

there's absolutely no way you can get the same rxp on heroics, if your concept of easier is "i can solo r1 so it's easier" yes, it's true

if your concept of easier is "doing r1 til cap heroic i get the same xp than 2 days at cap" then you're wrong, ofc

the average xp you get on a life on r1 til cap is 75k, that's the amount if you go with pot or without, the reason is quite simple, with pot you level faster so you run less quests

that takes you around 3 days of play (my guildie does that, and these are his numbers, which match with mine w/o using pot and obviously taking more time), in same time at cap you get double rxp

atm even farming amber with 80% penalty gets you more rxp than heroics

so fastest way is r1 til cap, once you're bored, go 30 and with 1st time bonuses and some dailies, til you get bored, then back to r1 heroics

unless you have a static group of pots chuggers well coordinated, geared and useful builds, so you can run higher heroics w/o taking too much time

[Ellihor]

lvl 30 wins @ about 300 rXP a minute in a static r10 group with NO pots. In heroics I think we were pulling 200 rXP a minute with pots. The doubling of rXP at cap put at cap play in motion.

It takes us 10 to 15min to do a Grim and Barret on r10 though. There are groups on Gland running the following quests daily:





Is that still hapenning daily? If that is true moving server is really becoming intresting

[jskinner937]

Heroics easily blows away RXP generated.
On one toon I have completed my 33 lives of Racial TR'ing and obtained about 3 million RXP giving 55 Reaper points.
My other toon that I kept at cap raiding and running Legendary content (including Reaper 10's) I have obtained just under 400K RXP (19 points).
Both have been run about the same amount of overall time.

I have obtained 10x the RXP doing heroic levelling for the same relative amount of playing time on both toons...


There are several factors.

The Reaper XP formula is fundamentally flawed.
~Base Reaper XP = 50 + 3 * (quest level on normal) * (number of skulls) * Length bonus (0.8 for short, 1 for medium, 1.2 for long, 1.4 for very long) ~

1. Legendary Levels where the content gets longer and comparably more difficult at level is not appropriately rewarded.

2. RXP/min.
Heroic content is completed much more quickly via TR lives. Epic XP pays better RXP/quest, but the RXP/min declines significantly

3. Over level penalties.
The over level penalties screw RXP deterring players from running Reaper XP in higher level content
for instance. Epic XP in Von 5 (a level 22 epic quest) can be run level 20-30.. no penalties..,
in Reaper however, a level 23 player incurs a 20% penalty, a level 24 player incurs a 50% penalty, a level 28 player incurrs a 95% penalty, and level 29/30 players are just screwed since they are locked out completely.

4. XP pots.
Great for quick content since you optimize your xp/min.
In higher levels where content is run in a variety of difficulties and content is much longer duration due to increased difficulty pot usage suffers.
Higher level Reaper content exponentially increases in quest time in high level content.
There is no pause button for XP pots.
which results in pots being overly expensive when running Epic levels, and pointless when running Legendary levels.

5. player capabilities..
More players are capable of running Reaper in heroic content than in Epic or Legendary content.
This results in a smaller pool of capable players running high level content in Reaper , let alone higher level reaper difficulty.
Good players can solo low level content in reaper and carry weaker players through, in higher levels there is less buffer range.. In legendary there is no room for it.
Epics end up getting dropped down in Reaper or even down to Elites for those of us not sucked into dailies of EN/EH.. to just get through the content or levelling off destinies.

6. Heroic content can be run at at level with higher skulls with lower failure risk and pace can be easily adjusted for RXP/min running first time bonuses without any need to repeat any content, optimizing all bonuses.
Epic Content is much more of a slug fest and snail crawl pace.
Capped toon RXP/min drops significantly losing ground due to in quest time, loss of bonuses while being stuck repeating limited at level content.


I would look at a couple primary factors to correct the player range RXP.

1. The formula should be better adjusted to add a multiplier for Epic and Legendary difficulty.

2. change the Reaper XP penalty calculation..
a. remove the lockout... the 95% penalty hit is already punitive enough.
b. instead of player level vs quest base to scale penalties..
Take player level vs (Quest level + Reaper Skulls)

In the example of Von5 above...
instead of locking out level 29 and 30 players and 95% penalty to having level 28 players...
quest level 22 +Reaper 8 skulls and no lockout means level 30 players can enter Von5 and still get Reaper XP... lower the skulls and penalties apply..

This way, to run Von 5 with level 30 players you would have to run Reaper 8 skulls to incur no penalty and obtain full base RXP.
This would allow players to run all available content instead of screwing over level players out of being able to run content in reaper difficulty that they can run in non-reaper without penalty.

Players can then broaden their play range and actually play content in Reaper mode on their capped toons beyond the few Legendary at level quests they are stuck with without having to TR.

I whole heartedly disagree. First time bonuses help a lot and obviously there is more opportunities for 1st time bonuses leveling up. But you can run high reapers successfully at cap and get double on lvl 30+ quests. Each life I purposes run about 20 quests for a total of 100k rXP on R7-10 once I hit 30. It takes about 2.5 hrs. The whole heroic TR usually equates to about half that and takes 3-7 days.

The point being squeeze every bit of rXP out of each life taking advantage of first time bonuses, including legendary quests before HTR/IR/RTR. That’s is fastest.

[jskinner937]

You get the RXP every minute that I do every quest. Ahh well, so don't worry about RXP too much in heroics, it comes with sentient xp at cap.

Ty for sharing and paving the way! By the time I get through racials you can all just carry me through R10s. :)

I don’t understand at all. You build these wis/soundburst/frog builds that outperform everything in reapers and you don’t care about rXP and want people to carry you? I am confused.

[jskinner937]

If I was going to finish past lives, to go to cap and stay, then doing a quest twice at R1 over two different lives instead of once on R4 gets me to cap 2x as fast, and the same amount of RXP per time.

Now I understand why I mostly see just R1 in heroics.

I don’t have to say it, and nor should I because I have never played with this person. But Tilo must be a terrible player, giving terrible advice to others, all you have to do is read posts on the vault.

[JOTMON]

I whole heartedly disagree. First time bonuses help a lot and obviously there is more opportunities for 1st time bonuses leveling up. But you can run high reapers successfully at cap and get double on lvl 30+ quests. Each life I purposes run about 20 quests for a total of 100k rXP on R7-10 once I hit 30. It takes about 2.5 hrs. The whole heroic TR usually equates to about half that and takes 3-7 days.

The point being squeeze every bit of rXP out of each life taking advantage of first time bonuses, including legendary quests before HTR/IR/RTR. That’s is fastest.

Disagree all you want with my 9 month old post.
My view was based only on my play time experience where I had split time between 2 toons 1 TR'ing and 1 not TR'ing.

You are trying to compare what you are doing as being relevant to the OP thread... which it isn't.



Do you think it is better to run potions at heroic levels to also benefit from Racial past lives or run potions at lvl 30 to maximize the reaper XP and do no more heroic xp?
Thanks.


..a TR process which finishes off with some high level reaper at cap before TR'ing again.. is not a non-TR'ing endgame RXP runner.




My TR toon that I started with is now 3x racial completionist and has 76 points and is currently sitting at cap doing endgame stuff leaving me time to TR another toon from scratch who is currently up to 57 points.
vs
My capped toon that I did not TR who has been doing raiding/cap level play and has only reached 38 points and has no racial past lives... which I will Still want to do..
so I have surpassed RXP on my stay at cap toon twice on TR alts.

Yes, fist time bonusses make it worth while, as well as the perks of running past lives for the past life bonusses.. its a nice synergy.

That high skull Reaper xp you get is generally all you are getting, since xp, destiny, and past life farming are not desirable in R10 content, but are just fine in lower skull TR speed levelling lives.

I run high Skull content at level 30 with and without groups, generally most R10's do require a better teamwork dynamic.
but it is still plagued with issues for non-TR toons.. no first time bonusses, daily run limits to avoid xp ransacking, boredom from running the same block of decent RXP content,
decline of xp pot usage since my toons also raid.

The other issue is we are getting screwed for RXP in raids.

[Kaboom2112]

Is that still hapenning daily? If that is true moving server is really becoming intresting

Not as often as it used to but yes, still being run daily.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

but it is still plagued with issues for non-TR toons.. no first time bonusses, daily run limits to avoid xp ransacking, boredom from running the same block of decent RXP content,
decline of xp pot usage since my toons also raid.

great point

[Ellihor]

no first time bonusses, daily run limits to avoid xp ransacking, boredom from running the same block of decent RXP content,
decline of xp pot usage since my toons also raid.

The other issue is we are getting screwed for RXP in raids.

A simple solution would berefreshing the first time bonus every day if you are lv 30. If they did that, people would stop doing iconics only to refresh it and play a cap instead, if they wanted to stay there.

Also, pausing XP potions at raids just like slayer potions are paused in quests would be great.

And finally, of course, adjusting the RXP for each quest by it's time and difficulty, that would need to be done quest by quest and not just a general system of long, medium and short like it currently is.

It would also be great to revitaiize content like Storhorns, if they allowed lv 30s to play there without the RXP penality, in a special difficulty that scales the quest like it was a lv 30 quest.

[JOTMON]

A simple solution would berefreshing the first time bonus every day if you are lv 30. If they did that, people would stop doing iconics only to refresh it and play a cap instead, if they wanted to stay there.

Also, pausing XP potions at raids just like slayer potions are paused in quests would be great.

And finally, of course, adjusting the RXP for each quest by it's time and difficulty, that would need to be done quest by quest and not just a general system of long, medium and short like it currently is.

It would also be great to revitaiize content like Storhorns, if they allowed lv 30s to play there without the RXP penality, in a special difficulty that scales the quest like it was a lv 30 quest.


Meh, first time is supposed to be first time..

Would rather see first time for each harder difficulty.
Give each reaper skull a first time bonus as long as each time you complete the next entry has to be a harder one to get the first time bonus.., eg. first time in run R5 and lose the first time for R1-4.
have to run the lower skulls progressively to get first time on each one.
Allows players to progress up difficulty while ransack keeps the bonusses inline for rinse/repeat runs.

[Ellihor]

Meh, first time is supposed to be first time..

If the problem is the name, than change it. Simply: at level 30 you no longer get any first time bonus. But the XP is doulbed for being lv 30. Solves it, people would stop doing TRs they don't need the lives just to get the first ime bonus.

Some people in cannith are literally burning iconic TRs and when they hit 20 they log a lv 30 box and do lv 30 quest on high skulls with the lv 20 parked at entrace. When they're done the char is almost lv 30, they finish off with daily or slayer or something else and ITR again. This is DDO in 2019... terrible state imho.

[Tilomere]

Some people in cannith are literally burning iconic TRs and when they hit 20 they log a lv 30 box and do lv 30 quest on high skulls with the lv 20 parked at entrace. When they're done the char is almost lv 30, they finish off with daily or slayer or something else and ITR again.

That sounds ... brilliant! +1 Whoever figured that out!

Hmm, if you were staying at cap farming rxp instead, I bet you could benefit from this idea by charging people their raid and reaper drops for power leveling.

It would be just like token of the 12 passing for piking the entrance in devil assault.

[slarden]

If the problem is the name, than change it. Simply: at level 30 you no longer get any first time bonus. But the XP is doulbed for being lv 30. Solves it, people would stop doing TRs they don't need the lives just to get the first ime bonus.

Some people in cannith are literally burning iconic TRs and when they hit 20 they log a lv 30 box and do lv 30 quest on high skulls with the lv 20 parked at entrace. When they're done the char is almost lv 30, they finish off with daily or slayer or something else and ITR again. This is DDO in 2019... terrible state imho.

Please don't lobby against this. One reasonable way to make progress on alts is by having 2+ accounts to share rxp in questing. This is exactly the type of "non-problem" SSG would try to deal with and only end up hurting grouping more.