Today's Observations on Pure Druid Wolf

[adrian69]

I am only discussing wolf from the perspective of going pure or mostly pure.

Wolf's Single Target Damage is very lack luster at cap and geared. I'd have to say it falls about 15-20% below a Swashbuckler unless stacking GCC/CC/Creeping Doom/Call Lightning Storm/Storm of Vengence before raging. Then I'd say it's about 10-15% behind that. Even with stacking DoTS, it takes too long in 90% of fights that matter do that and it can't be done in the new animal rage. AoE DPS is decent, though some of the abilities seem bugged or fire off slow.

Defenses are on point in my opinion except for low reflex save, which makes evasion somewhat worthless in endgame.
144 AC, 203 PRR, 97 MRR, 70/55/60. Max dodge isn't happening either imo.

Rocking 3 Piece Silent Avenger Light Armor (for T5 evasion) and 5 Piece Adherents of Mist Set and a couple of Cannith Crafted pieces to fill in. I'm sitting between 80-90 strength. I've been testing in Shadow Dancer and LD. Shadow Dancer is way ahead of LD due too SA dies from core and bonus MP. I haven't really gained anything past tier 3. I've never mastered the mechanics of the shroud TBH, so I don't know what difference that would make.

Here are my suggestions:

Cores: Add either SA Di back to all cores and add 2d6 at least to capstone. Add +1 damage in cores 1, 3, 5. and +1 reflex in cores 2, 4, and +2 in capstone (or change the fortitude saves in tier 1 to reflex saves. Wolves are supposed to agile, not just hardy).
Core 4: Actually, this is weak unless it's a miswording and it's supposed to +1 range or multiplier. Needless, the +3 damage I suggested above could go here.
Capstone: Redundant with Core 3. Give a better capstone. More melee power or something or change core 3 to something else. Core 3 can also be picked up from the bear tree with core 4 if needed. I've been taking cores 1-3 over in that tree, but stopping short of taking core 4 because I have with core 3 in Natures Warrior. Assuming others probably will too who go pure.

Tier 1: Is so lackluster. Other than 15 PsP, +3 uses of Wild Empathy, and and and I'm not certain anything else here is worth a point. And I wouldn't even take anything here if I didn't have to get to tier 2. Perhaps if Snapping Jaws was stronger I'd use it, and if bluff was a druid skill. Bluff should be since wolf relies on SA damage.

Tier 2:
Flight: I love uncapped dodge. However, a couple levels of barbarian or rogue gets +50% uncapped dodge. I'd settle with +10% per rank (30%) and +1/2/3 vs. traps. or +1%/2/3 dodge bonus.
Imp Dodge: Fine
Ghost Wolf: Fun concept. CD is too long or ability is too short. 25 second per minute or 15 seconds per 45 seconds.
Brother Wolf: Great
Double Strike: Fine

Tier 3
Fight: It's fine as is, but I wouldn't mind seeing +1/2/3 melee power for wolves and +2/4/6 PRR for bears there on top of the +1/2/3 damage.
Prey: Fine
Ghost Pack: This is a joke right? It does like 52 or 66 damage. This should be an interesting beastly ability every minute that does better damage than gcleave or Alpha Strike every minute.
Essense...: It's ok filler. I never will bother with it.
+1 Stat:

Tier 4
Fatal Harrier: Ok, I loved Fatal Harrier and I am glad it's no longer a buggy active. However, the CD is too short and it should just be a solid 10% stacking on enchantment at this point and 2 AP.
Good Legs: Ok for those who want it, but it's filler.
Ferocity: Consider 3/6/10 since rage only last a minute and brings survivability to nothing because you cannot cast regeneration
Great White Wolf: Good Filler

Tier 5:
Alpha Strike: Seem slow or doesn't work half the time...not sure I'm seeing a multiplier either. May it cost 2 AP and be one tier
Evasion: Move to capstone to add another slot for 3/6/10 Double strike for 1/2/3 AP
Throat Rip: Not sure what to think about it, but I like it. Wish it had +x multiplier and range
Jaws of Ice: This is great for starting fights
Go....Kill: I like it but wish it also had x multiplier and range due to not having a staple permanent source of range.


This is my initial suggestions atm. I don't have as many for bear form other than rage. But there's enough there for a player to spend excess AP there on a pure class.

If I am missing anything, someone let me know.

[adrian69]

I just saw tier 1 is reflex and fortitude. Disregard above suggestion.

[elvesunited]

I'm thinking taking my wolf warrior pure as well though I think you need to supplement it with another tree.
Two I'm thinking of .....

Nature Warrior 41 Vistani 28 Protector 11 -> dagger
Nature Warrior 41 Half-orc 20 Protector 11 Harper 8 -> Falchion

Half-orc adds a lot of damage to the wolf
Vistani is less ( but still good ) and more defense. ( plus my dethek shield won't go to waste )


Cores: Add either SA Di back to all cores and add 2d6 at least to capstone. Add +1 damage in cores 1, 3, 5. and +1 reflex in cores 2, 4, and +2 in capstone (or change the fortitude saves in tier 1 to reflex saves. Wolves are supposed to agile, not just hardy).
Core 4: Actually, this is weak unless it's a miswording and it's supposed to +1 range or multiplier. Needless, the +3 damage I suggested above could go here.
Capstone: Redundant with Core 3. Give a better capstone. More melee power or something or change core 3 to something else. Core 3 can also be picked up from the bear tree with core 4 if needed. I've been taking cores 1-3 over in that tree, but stopping short of taking core 4 because I have with core 3 in Natures Warrior. Assuming others probably will too who go pure.
The Lamania Druid Update post would confirm that it is supposed to be +1 Critical multiplier for Core 4. And testing has confirmed it is +1 damage per core.

+2 Reflex per natural fighting would be fine. If you're not running an evasion wolf then you've dumped dex and the reflex bonus will be meaningless. If you are running an evasion wolf you need all the help you can get.


Tier 1: Is so lackluster. Other than 15 PsP, +3 uses of Wild Empathy, and and and I'm not certain anything else here is worth a point. And I wouldn't even take anything here if I didn't have to get to tier 2. Perhaps if Snapping Jaws was stronger I'd use it, and if bluff was a druid skill. Bluff should be since wolf relies on SA damage.
Wolf now uses Spot for Baiting Bite instead of Bluff. A welcome change.


-Tier 2:
Flight: I love uncapped dodge. However, a couple levels of barbarian or rogue gets +50% uncapped dodge. I'd settle with +10% per rank (30%) and +1/2/3 vs. traps. or +1%/2/3 dodge bonus.
Imp Dodge: Fine
Ghost Wolf: Fun concept. CD is too long or ability is too short. 25 second per minute or 15 seconds per 45 seconds.
Brother Wolf: Great
Double Strike: Fine

Brother Wolf sounds good but the puppy dies easy. So easy.


Tier 3
Fight: It's fine as is, but I wouldn't mind seeing +1/2/3 melee power for wolves and +2/4/6 PRR for bears there on top of the +1/2/3 damage.
Prey: Fine
Ghost Pack: This is a joke right? It does like 52 or 66 damage. This should be an interesting beastly ability every minute that does better damage than gcleave or Alpha Strike every minute.
Essense...: It's ok filler. I never will bother with it.

essence of Nature is filler? WOW To me it is the defining enhancment of the animal form. Takedown, Baiting Bite, alpha strike, etc. The druid animal form is constantly casting low cost spells for low damage. But even low cost spells add up and these spells aren't doing enough damage to justify the cost. Essence is what allows the druid to keep up the pace of constant casting.

ghost pack is obviously broken. As apparrently are all wilderness lore dependent enhancements.


Tier 4
Fatal Harrier: Ok, I loved Fatal Harrier and I am glad it's no longer a buggy active. However, the CD is too short and it should just be a solid 10% stacking on enchantment at this point and 2 AP.
Good Legs: Ok for those who want it, but it's filler.
Ferocity: Consider 3/6/10 since rage only last a minute and brings survivability to nothing because you cannot cast regeneration
Great White Wolf: Good Filler

Fatal Harrier does not stack with alacrity or speed equipment. Since 10% increase from 30% boots in fairly standrd you'll need 3 dead opponents in 24 seconds without anyone else stealing the kill from you before it increases your attack speed at all. If you can manage that feat then you are fighting way too easy a quest anyway and you don't need Fatal Harrier.

Rage isn't even viable if you take the full 5 enhancements in bear. Since you won't as a wolf, I wouldn't even bother.

Great White wolf is filler to me. Cold breath is subpar damage for too much sp unless you meta it and a wolf won't have those feats. And fire shield can keep the cold off you much better.


Tier 5:
Alpha Strike: Seem slow or doesn't work half the time...not sure I'm seeing a multiplier either. May it cost 2 AP and be one tier
Evasion: Move to capstone to add another slot for 3/6/10 Double strike for 1/2/3 AP
Throat Rip: Not sure what to think about it, but I like it. Wish it had +x multiplier and range
Jaws of Ice: This is great for starting fights
Go....Kill: I like it but wish it also had x multiplier and range due to not having a staple permanent source of range.

Alpha strike does critical and can conform that from my testing. It's damage is nerfed though. By my calculations you'd need a lengendary ravenloft weapon to bring alpha strike back to its original damage output which is probably not a coincidence.

throat rip: is behaving so oddly I wonder if the person who designed it talked to the person who wrote the description. It has a long wind up. Followed by hitting everything around the wolf ( 360 degrees ) with 1 - 3 hits. ( the selected target normally gets all 3 ) It's difficult to test sneak attack while testing solo but I think the bleeding and sneak dice would apply as well if it counted as a sneak attack. This is all pretty strong but not likely WAI. If it works like the description says than it has to lose its windup or it will be a noob trap.

I can confirm that it appears to do x3 critical damage when I have a normal of x2. But then the core 4 multipler increase isn't working so who knows how it will turn out. It is an area effect attack that tries to trip everyone it does damage to. With some decent DC that's pretty impressive.

[adrian69]

I've stuck as a dragon my main unfortunately. Orc would be best followed by fallen or scourge probably

I've been running 44 NW/23 in bear/rest in herald. pulling 13 out of season herald would give me 23 points to spend on racials, which could go a long way on Horc. I'm not certain about the bear tree stuff I'm taking other than 9 for 25 PRR/MRR and +3 to saves.

I didn't want to mess with MCing since it should be about balancing pure first. Earthquake I could make up for subpar damage I guess.

The only thing that matters in Brother Wolf is the +3 damage.

One of the multipliers isn't working.

I'm using Nightmother's Scimitar w/ 70 Melee Power for 10 seconds on AB activiation, Affirmation LGS, and starting fights with LGS Vacuum then swapping to prior mentioned. No raid weapons. Nightmother's is only a die off anyway and +2 enchantment right.

[edrein]

essence of Nature is filler? WOW To me it is the defining enhancment of the animal form. Takedown, Baiting Bite, alpha strike, etc. The druid animal form is constantly casting low cost spells for low damage. But even low cost spells add up and these spells aren't doing enough damage to justify the cost. Essence is what allows the druid to keep up the pace of constant casting.


Sadly Essence is purely for the wolves. Apparently bears aren't allowed to have SP.

[elvesunited]

Sadly Essence is purely for the wolves. Apparently bears aren't allowed to have SP.

I kind of assumed that the reason they renamed "Essence of the Shrike" and moved it from a Tier 4 to a Tier 3 enhancement was so that the bear would have an easier time getting to it. There's a lot of stuff in the Nature warrior tree that bears would want like a critical multiplier increase. the extra damage from the cores and fight. I certainly wouldn't consider any bear build that didn't have essence of nature.

[unbongwah]

I certainly wouldn't consider any bear build that didn't have essence of nature.
Then I guess you better give up on bear builds, because I tested Essence of Nature on Lama last night and it only works in wolf form. No temp SPs for bears or humanoid druids. :(

[elvesunited]

Then I guess you better give up on bear builds, because I tested Essence of Nature on Lama last night and it only works in wolf form. No temp SPs for bears or humanoid druids. :(

I really hope that's a bug. Otherwise constant casting of Maul, shred, and Roar to build up and use Killer Instinct will be unsustainable and we'll have reached the point where the only effective bear builds are those that get most of their enhancements from other classes.

[edrein]

After testing for myself, I have to agree wolf single target damage is straight down the dumps now. However, I noticed a small faint glimmer of hope when I used Double Daggers from Vistani and did infact give myself offhand strikes.

Please for the love of all that's good and holy, make the wolf version of Natural Fighting provide 10% offhand chance similar to the 10% glancing blows. Base wolves will get to 30%, multiclassed/vistani-pures will get to 50% maximum. This is a solid compromise to the now neutered single target damage equation for wolves.