Stone of Change - Eldritch Rituals Cookbook

[Borror0]

For those that think I am lieing, or being greedy, or whatever, I am just going by the information that I have recieved BUT if this si the reaction I am going to get from people, maybe I should not even bother getting the info for general release, or even attempting it.

Cow, knowing you, you usually post stuff about how uber Vanash is so I thought you were kidding.

Now, as to people thinking you're lying, can you really blame them? You're the one that came here and posted "I found an uber recipe but I'm not posting it!!!" How do you think that sounds? If you wanted to message to be clear, I'd have posted something around the lines of "I know someone has found an uber recipe, it gives [Insert known effect here]. Trying to get the recipe and coming back to you guys."

The post you had posted couldn't result in anything but what it has created.

[MysticTheurge]

Kargon can personamally confirm that the 30% healamalling amplimification is fixed like garth say. and even seems to stack with kargon 30% human improved healamalling enhancemaments. kargon realamally like it so far :)

Stacks like Healing * 1.3 * 1.3 (or about +70% healing)? Or stacks like Healing * (1 + 0.3 + 0.3), or +60% healing?


I am being serious and I will not out any information until a. I have the info, AND b. I have their permission.

While this is your decision, the wisest thing to do, given the nature of the internet, forums and the work that everyone here is putting into figuring things out, would've been to hold your tongue until you'd accomplished A and B.

Saying "Here's X but you can't have it" is pretty much just a tease, even if your reasons for not sharing X are valid.

[Cowdenicus]

Cow, knowing you, you usually post stuff about how uber Vanash is so I thought you were kidding.

Now, as to people thinking you're lying, can you really blame them? You're the one that came here and posted "I found an uber recipe but I'm not posting it!!!" How do you think that sounds? If you wanted to message to be clear, I'd have posted something around the lines of "I know someone has found an uber recipe, it gives [Insert known effect here]. Trying to get the recipe and coming back to you guys."

The post you had posted couldn't result in anything but what it has created.

I dont know what it does yet, thats why I didnt post it. All I posted it what I know. I know that somebody has stated they found "A" tier 3 recipe that is not a "pure" recipe with special effects. The person that discovered this is an acquaintance of mine, with whom I have run many quests with in the past (from what I have been told.) I will ask him what is up, he may tell me for just my knowledge, he may tell me and let me dissemenate the info to the community, He may tell me to kick rocks (most likely option). Heck I wont even say who it is at this point because I dont want him to be flooded in Tell-Hell.

When I get more info, and I get permission to post it, I will let you all know.

[Cowdenicus]

While this is your decision, the wisest thing to do, given the nature of the internet, forums and the work that everyone here is putting into figuring things out, would've been to hold your tongue until you'd accomplished A and B.

Saying "Here's X but you can't have it" is pretty much just a tease, even if your reasons for not sharing X are valid.

You know maybe I should not have posted anything. I will keep that in mind for the future, Thanks MT.

[Tarnoc]

well all i say on this subject is its very doubtfull they got the tier 3 effect without help from the forums

so me personally i dont care about his exact formulla but it would be nice to know the effect

and if something special was done to get it or they just unlocked one of the as of yet unknowns

[Mad_Bombardier]

Stacks like Healing * 1.3 * 1.3 (or about +70% healing)? Or stacks like Healing * (1 + 0.3 + 0.3), or +60% healing?That's what I would like to know, too. I KNOW that Healing Amplification from the Finger Necklace is *1.1 in it's own mutliplier, not added into Potency/Life Magic (because it's on the recipient end). But, I would *assume* that all sources Healing Amplification (item, HumanImpRecovery, and WF Healer's Friend) are added together before multiplying. And, I also *assume* that items won't stack.

Now, I just need to find a willing Human with ImpRecovery or WF with Healer's Friend to test with my Finger Necklace and possibly with the Docent of Blood and/or Healing Amp green steel. :)

[Hence]

Heres my pre-6.1 wise cloak of crappiness... NOM plus POM

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/jodocasts/wgswcoh.jpg

And... everyone knows guys hate a tease. Its like your Girlfriend/wife coming to bed dressed in a brand new Victoria Secret see-through nightie, grabbing your gonads and whispering in your ear, "I have a surprise for you!" Then abruptly turning over and going to sleep.

Makes us cranky you big tease you!

[Turial]

I dont think he's serious. His post only shows that he is either greedy or liar.

No one is holding out information, because to discover a tier3 effect you have to use all the information shared on this thread. So holding out would be pretty ungratefull.

There are DDO guilds out there that don't use the main forums at all and have a pretty good handle on the crafting situation. This thread may have gotten the information put together sooner but one wouldn't be required to have access to it to find the way to a tier 3 "special" effect.

Also Cowdenicus is pretty on the level with stuff like this, I'm sure once he has the information he will share it.

[Tarnoc]

so her goes my latest thoughts theories

let s say you go positive and earth for an aspect of mineral

has anyone tried to imbue a shard with a (supreme one)foci of positive (supreme one)gem of escalation and the large essence of earth from a 30hd trap the soul????thus making a supreme shard of mineral????

lol maybe we only need 8 large ingreidients to make the uber upgrade

[Raidon]

Back to the serious discussion of this thread ,

Did u know..... Besides liquids, solids and GAS may be present in magma.

So if the Devs are using Geology for Magma II, and no hanky panky with soul gems / Dual foci etc, my reasoning is as simple as a 3rd upgrade of air focus on a magma item.

Put that gas into the magma :)

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

so her goes my latest thoughts theories

let s say you go positive and earth for an aspect of mineral

has anyone tried to imbue a shard with a (supreme one)foci of positive (supreme one)gem of escalation and the large essence of earth from a 30hd trap the soul????thus making a supreme shard of mineral????

lol maybe we only need 8 large ingreidients to make the uber upgrade

Whatever solution the problem of upgrading tier 2 quasi/para/special upgrades to tier 3 is, it has to be consistent for all the upgrades - so while this solution it potentially viable for the mineral upgrade, it would not expand to the other elemental combinations because the devs have already said that only the soul gems of earth are being used in the game at the moment - and there are also no gem subtypes available for many of the paraelemental combinations (e.g. smoke, magma)

I'm planing on testing the latest ideas on Monday (once I'm off timer) so we should hopefully have an answer then... I can't wait :)

Garth

[Lithic]

Back to the serious discussion of this thread ,

Did u know..... Besides liquids, solids and GAS may be present in magma.

So if the Devs are using Geology for Magma II, and no hanky panky with soul gems / Dual foci etc, my reasoning is as simple as a 3rd upgrade of air focus on a magma item.

Put that gas into the magma :)

Actually depending on the type of magma, there can be a huge (For rocks at least) concentration of water. Most of the "gas" comming off lava/volcanoes is water vapour.

Water concentration in molten rock has large effects on viscosity, melting temperature, crystalization of minerals, etc.

Maybe try a water focus then? :D

[Raidon]

Well had to totally scrap thoughts on the foci being the special. why?

Positive Earth (Mineral) Earth = no special
Positive Earth (Mineral) Positive = no special
Earth Positive (Mineral) Negative = no special

So as there are no para-quasi specials then all three 3rd upgrades for Mineral have been tried and failed , i.e Mineral / Earth , Mineral / Positive , Mineral /Negative.

So there has to be something else that upgrades to mineral II .

[Vesuvia]

Like I suggested some 20 something pages back, the key will likely be the combinations of material/etheral but more then likely the combinations of escalation/dominion/opposition being the key to empower an aspect to an aspect 2, not just adding another element.

[Cambo]

Well had to totally scrap thoughts on the foci being the special. why?

Positive Earth (Mineral) Earth = no special
Positive Earth (Mineral) Positive = no special
Earth Positive (Mineral) Negative = no special

So as there are no para-quasi specials then all three 3rd upgrades for Mineral have been tried and failed , i.e Mineral / Earth , Mineral / Positive , Mineral /Negative.

So there has to be something else that upgrades to mineral II .

There goes my theroy that it was simple simple.
Perhaps earth + positive + Eart......could the order of the first 2 change it ? I hope not...

[Shima-ra]

Just an idea on the fly.

Water + air = cold
So what can make it even more cold? I can only think about negative.
Think about chill touch for exemple.

[Snoggy]

I am being serious and I will not out any information until a. I have the info, AND b. I have their permission.

For those that think I am lieing, or being greedy, or whatever, I am just going by the information that I have recieved BUT if this si the reaction I am going to get from people, maybe I should not even bother getting the info for general release, or even attempting it.

Some people are just showing alot of ungratefulness. Jeez.


Your best bet would have been to not post anything at all until you'd gotten permission or gotten it confirmed. You opened pandora's box so expect to take some heat. It's not personal, it's just the way of the internet.

[Borror0]

Your best bet would have been to not post anything at all until you'd gotten permission or gotten it confirmed. You opened pandora's box so expect to take some heat. It's not personal, it's just the way of the internet.

Hopefuly it was to make pressure on the guy.

I heard a little about it from a few friends on his server, seems like he speak the truth. From what I've been told about the said player, it seems very likely that he has found out something neat as he has a lot of ingrediant at his disposal.

Either we get lucky and the guy shares, or he enjoys his moment of uberness until someone else figures it out.

Again, very sorry Cow.

[Naso24]

I ran the raid earlier today. I believe Cowdenicus, the group I was in was making a special Tier 3 upgrade. They did not share info on what item, combo, or anything. And I believe they were successful, given the amount of time they spend on and they are pretty uber players.

I asked what they made, and was pretty much given the same answer, that they are just keeping things in guild for now, but they have been successful multiple times.

It wouldn't make much of a difference for me. Ransacked, and only have 3 large components and no supreme shard.

[Tanka]

Honestly, the "not telling haha" thing sounds a lot more like an exploit of the system than anything else at this point.

[Snoggy]

Hopefuly it was to make pressure on the guy.

You're probably right. Just hope Mr. Cowdenicus doesn't take the heat he gets personally, because it's just people being excited about new discoveries is all. And impatience. Impatience is a huge aspect of video-gaming.

On a side-note, Radion posted what I've been wanting to hear for about 40 pages now! :)

Positive in Tier 1 + Earth in Tier 2 + Positive in Tier 3 does not equal an extra bonus effect. Oh well, sucks for me, but good to finally know that. As with many others, the drop rate on large ingredients has been quite slow for me. Many thanks to the people here who are testing these combines like mad scientists and posting their results.

[MrCow]

Just hope Mr. Cow doesn't take the heat he gets personally

First people confuse me with Ghoste earlier today, now people are confusing me with Cowdenicus, sheesh. :p

[Snoggy]

First people confuse me with Ghoste earlier today, now people are confusing me with Cowdenicus, sheesh. :p

Ack. I know you are MrCow. I was just trying to be polite to Mr. Cowdenicus. Serves me right for shortening things that way.

:(

[Kargon]

Stacks like Healing * 1.3 * 1.3 (or about +70% healing)? Or stacks like Healing * (1 + 0.3 + 0.3), or +60% healing?

Kargon not pay close enough attentimion to figure out if are 60% or 70% healamalling, all kargon know are cure serious wands like to heal for 47 hp all of a suddamen :)

[MysticTheurge]

Kargon not pay close enough attentimion to figure out if are 60% or 70% healamalling, all kargon know are cure serious wands like to heal for 47 hp all of a suddamen :)

See if you can get a cleric to test you with Heal?

Since Heal's always a fixed number, it's a good way to test those healing things.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

See if you can get a cleric to test you with Heal?

Since Heal's always a fixed number, it's a good way to test those healing things.

Unfortunately, my cleric has stopped healing Kargon since I realised that I couldn't kill him any more.

Garth

[Ilandrya]

While I feel that it is perfectly within this individual/guilds right to do with their information as they see fit to do, I can say that beyond some basic testing to make sure their method is consistantly accurate, which it appears they have already done, the mentality that this information needs to be kept secret is purely egocentric and self serving, and cannot be justly rationalized as anything else. While that attitude may be prevelent in other mmos, the only rational reason for taking that attitude is when competition/war with other players plays a central part to the theme of the mmo. That is not the case with DDO, so to do anything else but share says a lot about the nature of that guild.

A run is only as good as the players, the builds, and their equipment. They are decreasing the effectiveness of the pug groups they run in by not sharing this information, so they are not playing in the best interest of the groups they are in, and I know they do not only run with their own guild. There is no reason not to share... I've heard the argument in other "Elite" guilds I have been in that they did all the hard work why should they let others be lazy etc.... it's just another arguement to justify their selfishness to themselves... no consideration is given for those who are on limited time constraints and simply have real lives that are complicated enough that they can't take the time to puzzle it out for themselves, or just are not gifted with that particular skill set. (I've been in egocentric guilds before... they tend not to last long because of all the infighting.... too many egos/cooks in the kitchen tends to spoil the food, and for some reason these types of guilds always seem to collect too many egocentric members than is good for them... but egocentrics are attracted to uber statuses, so that's in keeping with the fact that like attracts like.)

This attitude is not kind, not in the best interest of the players or game, and has no real value given the nature of this mmo... so why do it? Do you really think not sharing makes others look at you as being "more uber"? Think of the mentality of most of the people who play this game... the player base is not like most other mmos.... it's not a bunch of insecure or under developed tweens you are playing with. While you may in your own mind think yourself "more uber" for having this secret, in reality you are more likely to be looked down upon by others where this particular mmo is concerned. Selfishness without just cause (when you have less than you need... not want, need) is not a positive trait in real life, and really quite sad when it comes to something that is only a game, especially one that has no reason for it, IMHO.

I can zerg, I'm a good player, I have nice gear, and I've been called elite and uber many times, and have been in uber guilds, but that has never been why I play this game. It's to have fun. I find I have more fun by being kind and helping others than being greedy/self centered. If the groups I am in are better educated about the game and better equipped, it makes the runs smoother for everyone, and helps those who have limited time to play. When I had Ilandrya initially, I never took raid loot because I knew I was going to be rerolling her at some point, and to me it was selfish to do so knowing that. I've seen people take raid loot that they had no possible conceivable use for, instead of offering it up to others, and just shake my head. Sometimes I keep nice things simply to auction them because as a person who pretty much runs only a Cleric, I have to find a way to pay for my supplies somehow, but I've also been known in the past to have uber loot giveaways when my bank has become too full and I have enough plat. While just at home zerging a quest with elitists, I have no problem walking people through something or "flower sniffing" because I happen to have the time to play that way and the patience to do so. Not everyone does, and sometimes for good reason, like a medical condition or time constraints. The trick is to be understanding of other people's differences, and accomodate them or if you cannot do so, try not to run with them. But I digress... this type of thing goes beyond justifiable personal differences though... it's just ego with no real point or purpose. If you want to feel good, you might be better off with your favorite rich dessert, a day spa, a nice cocktail or two, or going and giving your kids a hug and a kiss...

Just my 2 coppers.

[Shima-ra]

Can we stop talking about players with no names and what they pretend to do.
Any dork can say ''Oh I crafted something uber but I wont tell what it is'' and have a good laugh at all the hooked fishes. I just dont care.

Lets get back to the matter at hand: Results or Theory.

[Ilandrya]

Can we stop talking about players with no names and what they pretend to do.


For some of us, these players have names, and a guild with reputation enough to warrant that what is being said is valid. Saying they are pretending is an assumption you are making, and those who are on the server in question who have more information to go on feel otherwise.


Any dork can say ''Oh I crafted something uber but I wont tell what it is'' and have a good laugh at all the hooked fishes. I just dont care.

True enough, but as I said, I doubt that to be the case here.


Lets get back to the matter at hand: Results or Theory.

I'm sorry my post was not what you specifically were looking for, but I have a right to discuss what I see fit to discuss as long as it is in keeping with DDO forum rules. To me, this issue pertains to results... ones that are not being shared.

[philo]

For some of us, these players have names, and a guild with reputation enough to warrant that what is being said is valid. Saying they are pretending is an assumption you are making, and those who are on the server in question who have more information to go on feel otherwise.

We could just post that persons forum name and release the hounds on him=X hahaha

[Cowdenicus]

We could just post that persons forum name and release the hounds on him=X hahaha

I could, but I wouldn't, that would make me a liar.

[philo]

I could, but I wouldn't, that would make me a liar.

I didnt say anything abut you...and I couldnt do it either, that would be too mean...though really funny :D

[smithers]

Your best bet would have been to not post anything at all until you'd gotten permission or gotten it confirmed. You opened pandora's box so expect to take some heat. It's not personal, it's just the way of the internet.

Exactly. I met some guys from a guild in Sarlona who couldn't keep quiet about the fact their guild had secrets. They wanted everyone to know that they knew something special and it wasn't going to be shared. How obnoxious is that?

Either keep your secrets secret or share the info and get some props. You can't have both, and trying to have both just makes you look like a real twit. (comment not directed at any individual; just a general observation)

[philo]

So I have a question...why would anyone in their right mind make a scepter over a morningstar? Do scepters have some added benefit? Someday every caster will end up swinging their weapon even if its not very often...maybe the mob is commanded or held or stoned etc.

What would be the logic for anyone to choose to make a scepter over a morningstar that has a higher base dmg?

Maybe someone will argue looks/roleplaying? who knows...thats always a possible justification I guess...but that cant be the only reason? I have to be missing something...

Is it just another option for those that dont know enough to make the better base damage weapon?

[Angelus_dead]

So I have a question...why would anyone in their right mind make a scepter over a morningstar? Do scepters have some added benefit? Someday every caster will end up swinging their weapon even if its not very often...maybe the mob is commanded or held or stoned etc.
Wizards are proficient in scepters, but not morningstars. That's a weak reason, but it's a reason.

[EspyLacopa]

Wizards are proficient in scepters, but not morningstars. That's a weak reason, but it's a reason.
If an enemy is Held or Stoned, attack bonus doesn't matter. Only damage.

At which point, may as well make a Warhammer or Khopesh: better crit damage for those circumstances.

[philo]

Wizards are proficient in scepters, but not morningstars. That's a weak reason, but it's a reason.

ah yes, i was thinking sorcs and wizards both had simple weapon proficiency..that would be the reason

[winsom]

I completed some goggles at the altar of invasion. It was not the bonus I wanted. Is there a way to salvage some of the ingredients or a way to re-do a step?

does anyone keep track of the names of imbued power shards?

Ethereal Air Opposition = Shard of Power + Inferior Focus of Air + Cloudy Gem of Opposition + Diluted Ethereal Essence + Low Power Cell

Ethereal Water Dominion = Shard of Great Power + Focus of Water + Gem of Dominion + Ethereal Essence + Medium Power Cell

It seems to me that rather than refering to the crafting steps by location plus each component individually resulting in a long and inconsistant way of describing the recipe, we could use the proper name of the desired imbued power shard. We could them talk about the results of named imbued shard + named imbued greater shard, and so on.

[Gol]

We could just post that persons forum name and release the hounds on him=X hahaha
I think you should. Cow's obviously not the only one that knows them. Whoever they are, their rep shouldn't be worth the bytes in the database to store their characters.

[Grimshadow]

On the 3rd Tier effects:

Crushing wave is it single target, is there a resist for the damage?

Air Guard do they get a save when being knocked over, if so has anyone tested it?
Is it a save or a Str check? Do you have to actually get hit when the effect is on a weapon and is it supposed to change on them?

Earthgrab are they like paralyzed weapon effect or helpless (autocrit)? Is it Fort save?

Incinerate has anyone actually done this to see the effect? If so what exactly does it do?

[Missing_Minds]

See if you can get a cleric to test you with Heal?

Since Heal's always a fixed number, it's a good way to test those healing things.

heal scrolls or even the silver flame tavern "heal" spell. straight 100 hp if I recall correctly. That will give the percentage right away.

[Missing_Minds]

I completed some goggles at the altar of invasion. It was not the bonus I wanted. Is there a way to salvage some of the ingredients or a way to re-do a step?

does anyone keep track of the names of imbued power shards?

Ethereal Air Opposition = Shard of Power + Inferior Focus of Air + Cloudy Gem of Opposition + Diluted Ethereal Essence + Low Power Cell
Ethereal Water Dominion = Shard of Great Power + Focus of Water + Gem of Dominion + Ethereal Essence + Medium Power Cell

no, you are sol. I had the same thing happen to me. Sell them, start over. Unless you want to wait till mod 7. There is a possiblity of over crafting what you already did, so long as you don't go up to the next stage.

For the most part, if you keep track of what you were using, it is the same thing. such as EWE is ethereal, water escalation.

[Shima-ra]

Heal cures 10hp per lvl.
the spell needing caster11 always cure 110 from a scroll

[Kargon]

Heal cures 10hp per lvl.
the spell needing caster11 always cure 110 from a scroll

Clerimic Heal with no enhancemament on target: 427
Clerimic Heal with enhancemament (30%) but no item: 555
Clerimic Heal with enhancemament (30%) AND item (30%): 722

427 * 1.3 * 1.3 = 721.6, so look like they stack by multimiplying, not by adding 30% of 427 and adding 30% of 427 again.

[Snoggy]

Just my 2 coppers.

While you raise some very interesting and valid points, I think the best thing to do in this situation is to keep a stiff upper lip, ignore the people in question (at least in terms of the 'drama') and keep trudging forward with this thread trying to help everyone else.

Eventually the secret will be found by someone willing to share and then the house of cards falls apart.

Good luck and keep up the good work everyone.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Clerimic Heal with no enhancemament on target: 427
Clerimic Heal with enhancemament (30%) but no item: 555
Clerimic Heal with enhancemament (30%) AND item (30%): 722

427 * 1.3 * 1.3 = 721.6, so look like they stack by multimiplying, not by adding 30% of 427 and adding 30% of 427 again.Thank you Kargon! Another stacking mystery solved. :) And very interesting that each personal boost is multiplied rather then adding together (I like being proven wrong).

150 (base) * 1.9 (item + enhance) * 1.5 (EmpowerHeal) * 1.3 (HumanImpReco3) * 1.3 (HealingAmplification) = 722.475, which rounds down to 722.

[push7]

I was wondering if anyone tried 2 Imbued Great Shards of Power, their tier 2 upgraded weapon, and a power cell on the third tier altar? Example: Earth/positive item put on the third altar, plus a power cell, plus an earth imbued great shard of power, and a positive imbued great shard of power. This gives you aspect of mineral 2 maybe?

or

Could it be that the items that have been upgraded once on the third tier and had no effect added to them is because they are unfinished?
Maybe, they need the other element added to them. Example: Earth/ positive/earth (had no effect, posted a while ago), maybe the item needs another positive imbued power shard and a power cell added to the item to finish it and get its ultimate effect. Can a third tier upgraded item be put into the third altar?

Also, I can confirm that in order to get the regeneration effect to work you need to take off the item and put it back on(that puts up the symbol). You do not regenerate when the symbol is not up, you do not regenerate. (this is with the improved regeneration effect from the 2nd upgrade, don't know about the first or the third.) Changing city zones does not remove the effect, but going into a quest instance or outside zone will remove it, and u need to take the item off and put it back on to get it to work.

Lastly, Thank you all for the efforts you have done. I appreciate your efforts.

[gpk]

Clerimic Heal with no enhancemament on target: 427
Clerimic Heal with enhancemament (30%) but no item: 555
Clerimic Heal with enhancemament (30%) AND item (30%): 722

427 * 1.3 * 1.3 = 721.6, so look like they stack by multimiplying, not by adding 30% of 427 and adding 30% of 427 again.

Thanks for the update, if you have access to a Finger necklace (10% incoming heals) can you try it out and see if it stacks, and if it does is it additive or multiplicative ?

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Could it be that the items that have been upgraded once on the third tier and had no effect added to them is because they are unfinished?
Maybe, they need the other element added to them. Example: Earth/ positive/earth (had no effect, posted a while ago), maybe the item needs another positive imbued power shard and a power cell added to the item to finish it and get its ultimate effect. Can a third tier upgraded item be put into the third altar?


"Green Steel weapons and items can only be run through each altar once. If you add positive at tier three, for instance, it's done." - Eladrin

Garth

[KiwiJoe]

Scratch that :/

[SteeleTrueheart]

I just made my supreme commander gloves (air+fire+earth) and although there is no special text on the gloves I now have 5dr appearing in my combat log when hit.

(Combat): Stormreaver hit you for 35 points of slash damage; 5 was stopped by your damage reduction.

A Paladin didn't cast angel skin on you while you were not looking? Just to be sure. DR would be nice.

[KiwiJoe]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa27/Richspud/gloves.jpg

Maybe on the angel skin. I'll keep checking my combat log and see what comes up...

[vyvy3369]

Thanks for the update, if you have access to a Finger necklace (10% incoming heals) can you try it out and see if it stacks, and if it does is it additive or multiplicative ?
I was going to pass one over to him, but my Finger necklace was on my fighter at the time, and we split up after a couple runs. It was nice to see Heal scrolls doing 260 also (110 * 1.4 * 1.3 * 1.3).

[Kambuk]

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh306/Kambuk/goggles.jpg

Neg + Esc + Material
Pos + Esc + Material

Got the Great Commander name..

Kambuk

(Going to take lvl 16 as Monk so +6 wis will be nice for extra AC, currently Rogue1/Ranger14 this gets my hp's to 280 if i can get it fully upgraded it will get me to 300)

[Rouge]

Fire + Earth = Aspect of Magma (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1560229&postcount=538) = Meteor Swarm lvl 16 x 1
Water + Fire = Tempered (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1557511&postcount=61) = Increased Toughens and Durability of item, +7 Intimidation + 10 concentration + 7 Repair


Ok, given the above.......... bear with me on this one........

If I were to take a +5 Green Steel Longsword and add

Material + Dominion + Fire (Flaming and Aspect of Fire)

Material + Dominion + Earth (Acid Burst and Aspect of Magma)

If I then took that weapon and added

Material + Dominion + Water (Icy Blast)

would it then add Tempered as well since the weapon would have aspect of fire and be adding water?
Creating a +5 Greensteel Longsword with Flaming, Acid Burst, Icy Blast, Meteor Swarm 1/d, Increased Durability & Hardness, +7 Intimidate, +10 Concentration, +7 Repair

Speculation, any ideas...... anyone tried it, or anything like it??

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Update: If my theory worked in reverse order....... KiwiJoe's Gloves a few posts above should have become a Displacement Clicky.

[Riggs]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa27/Richspud/gloves.jpg

Maybe on the angel skin. I'll keep checking my combat log and see what comes up...

Also warchanter bard song has 5 dr.

[MysticTheurge]

If I then took that weapon and added

Material + Dominion + Water (Icy Blast)

would it then add Tempered as well since the weapon would have aspect of fire and be adding water?

No.

Third tier bonuses are separate and different from second tier bonuses.

[Missing_Minds]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa27/Richspud/gloves.jpg

Maybe on the angel skin. I'll keep checking my combat log and see what comes up...

Kiwi... I'm trying to figure your gloves out. It seemed you stated they were air fire earth, yet you have tempered on them. As far as I know that is a water+fire combo, and it look as if you got that at 2nd tier.
I'm not calling you a liar at all, I'm just saying I'm confused.

[philo]

Kiwi... I'm trying to figure your gloves out. It seemed you stated they were air fire earth, yet you have tempered on them. As far as I know that is a water+fire combo, and it look as if you got that at 2nd tier.
I'm not calling you a liar at all, I'm just saying I'm confused.

those gloves are 10hp's and dex skills=fire

50mana and wisdom skills=water

fire/water=tempered

[stockwizard5]

I have a couple more items to upgrade in the standard discovered way; assuming the bonuses are from focuses ...

Have AA (EEA/EEA) ...

We know AAA gives Air Guard
We assume that AAN or AAP does nothing from EEP, EPN, NPP, and PAN being nada
We assume that AAE or AW does nothing from AAE being nada
We assume that AAF does nothing from EEW being nada

Anything left to test?

Have EE (EEE/EEE) ...

We know EEE gives Good Guard (un-displayed and LAME)
We know EEA, EEP, and EEW do nada
We assume the rest do nothing (see above logic)

Anything left to test?

[stz]

On the 3rd Tier effects:

Crushing wave is it single target, is there a resist for the damage?

Air Guard do they get a save when being knocked over, if so has anyone tested it?
Is it a save or a Str check? Do you have to actually get hit when the effect is on a weapon and is it supposed to change on them?

Earthgrab are they like paralyzed weapon effect or helpless (autocrit)? Is it Fort save?

Incinerate has anyone actually done this to see the effect? If so what exactly does it do?


Crushing wave single target, bludgeon + cold damage

Air Guard its a primary attribute save ( str / dex ) DC 35 - procs when the attacker lands a succesful hit

Earthgrab DC 35 reflex save, earthgrabbed target is renderred helpless

Incinerate no idea

[Missing_Minds]

those gloves are 10hp's and dex skills=fire

50mana and wisdom skills=water

fire/water=tempered

I know this, however, if you look at post 1081 you'll see what he posted before he edited it (I'm guessing he edited his post)

for the last part he could have used earth or he could have used water. Given that I'm going to make up some fire water fire myself, i'd like to know is all.

[philo]

I know this, however, if you look at post 1081 you'll see what he posted before he edited it (I'm guessing he edited his post)

for the last part he could have used earth or he could have used water. Given that I'm going to make up some fire water fire myself, i'd like to know is all.


Im thinking you meant post 1800 that he edited?

ya it doesnt say there...just send him a pm:P...but if he did mention earth before he probably just had it in the wrong order and went fire/water/earth. Your fire/water/fire combo seems like a more logical choice.

[Inkblack]

Something Smithers said on page 74 has me thinking:

Let's say you've done the following:

Tier 1: Positive
Tier 2: Air
Tier 3 (Imbued shard only): Air

Could you then take the Imbued shard and add the 4 ingredients for a Focus of Positive Energy on it without a power source?

THEN add it to the weapon or item?

That way you would not necessarily be getting "air in my lightning". You could potentially have a lot more combinations then (since you could choose from 2 different focus types for the effect, provided the order doesn't matter).

Has anyone tried this? I figure if worse comes to worse, nothing happens. You wouldn't even lose a power cell.

Ink

Has anyone tried this to find the mysterious Para/Quasi Tier 3 upgrades? Taken an Imbued Shard after part 5, and added the four components of the other focus to it?

Ink

[Crimson_Dark]

Melancholy's Cloak - She calls it "toasty warm & scrumptiously decadent"
It has silver piping, with a deep magenta silk lining with many hidden pockets

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z10/Johny_Enright/Melancholy_Cloak.jpg

Can't you just see why it's perfect for a Ranger (oh, the spell points!) Slimming too!
(I think that slimming is an unstated/undisplayed effect, much like Good Guard and others already mentioned)

...and it comes in Ranger Green! :eek:

[apious1]

Screenshot of Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Goggles of Air:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3141/2307093725_d5a476410d_o.jpg
Tier 1: Air + Ethereal + Escalation
Tier 2: Air + Ethereal + Escalation
Tier 3: Air + Ethereal + Escalation

This is my second Tier 3 Air upgrade on the same character. I know some people mentioned that they wondered if there would be more bonuses for multiple items of the same type and the answer is no.

[apious1]

Also, forgot to post the screenshot of the gloves:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3246/2307959296_18892edc0a_o.jpg
Tier 1: Negative + Opposition + Material
Tier 2: Negative + Opposition + Material
Tier 3: Negative + Opposition + Material

[Rafal]

Melancholy's Cloak - She calls it "toasty warm & scrumptiously decadent"
It has silver piping, with a deep magenta silk lining with many hidden pockets
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z10/Johny_Enright/Melancholy_Cloak.jpg

Can't you just see why it's perfect for a Ranger (oh, the spell points!) Slimming too!
(I think that slimming is an unstated/undisplayed effect, much like Good Guard and others already mentioned)

...and it comes in Ranger Green! :eek:

You forgot to let us know how to cook it.

[Crimson_Dark]

You forgot to let us know how to cook it.

Oh...sorry...I just assumed folks would know...my bad. Apologies all around!

Tier One is Inferior Focus Positive Energy, Cloudy Gem of Escalation and Diluted Ethereal Essence.
Tier Two is Focus of Negative Energy, Gem of Opposition, and Material Essence.

Cheers! :D

Melancholy

[KiwiJoe]

Im thinking you meant post 1800 that he edited?

ya it doesnt say there...just send him a pm:P...but if he did mention earth before he probably just had it in the wrong order and went fire/water/earth. Your fire/water/fire combo seems like a more logical choice.

Yup sry - Went Fire/Water/Earth to see if it produced anything special.

[steelblade]

OKAY. . . I can try this . . . but it is gonna take me a few more ingredient runs to pull the necessary ingredients. I am shy eight ingredients now... if anyone on ARGO wants to contribute to this science project... I need...


2 small bones
1 small chain
1 small scale
3 small shrapnel
1 small stone
Send them to DEX. If noone wants to contribute (which is fine) ... it will take me a couple of days to pull this laundry list together. I have already spent enough PP on all these science experiments, so I am not paying any more exuberant auction house prices. ;)

il help ya

[Big-Dex]

il help ya


Thanks a ton bro for offering, but I have conducted those experiments already with no successes except to eliminate possibilities on the lower altars. So, go ahead an hold on to your stuffs. I am squared away.

~ Dex

[Ironwind]

I ran the raid earlier today. I believe Cowdenicus, the group I was in was making a special Tier 3 upgrade. They did not share info on what item, combo, or anything. And I believe they were successful, given the amount of time they spend on and they are pretty uber players.

I asked what they made, and was pretty much given the same answer, that they are just keeping things in guild for now, but they have been successful multiple times.

Dude this totally makes sense.
I mean we are playing on a PvP server and it is important that the Horde and the Alliance keep war secrets to prevent the other side from gaining too much of an edge.

[Snoggy]

Dude this totally makes sense.
I mean we are playing on a PvP server and it is important that the Horde and the Alliance keep war secrets to prevent the other side from gaining too much of an edge.


Not to mention the moment the Avatar of War spawns, it's a race to get to the spawn first, or else the entire guild has to wait till respawn because some other guild beat them to the phat lootz.

P.S. Don't wake the sleeper!

[UtherSRG]

Dude this totally makes sense.
I mean we are playing on a PvP server and it is important that the Horde and the Alliance keep war secrets to prevent the other side from gaining too much of an edge.



Yet another reason PvP should never have been implemented. :mad:

[query]

shut up, but this was one of those "oops I shouldn't have shared" moments. What was said in trust to a known gamer companion should not have been disclosed. Cowd made a mistake, and that's fine. If the person is not sharing it but wanted to confirm he or she got it, that's their decisdion: right wrong or neither of those choices or even both.


Sorry to say, some people's world in DDO doesn't even involve beiung on the forums, let alone reading them. They may or may not have goten their datum or data from here or in house or both. We don't know. Calling people names without all the facts...well we're assuming,a nd you know what that makes...I don't like it when people prejudge me; so don't do it to others unless you have some solid proof to back it up, not "I heard this person say..."


On the flip side, any person who goads others (s)he has a secret and we don't have it deserves to be banished from playing with said taunted to by said taunted. You have a secret? FINE: Go play with yourself! I hope that guild is super uber, 'cause as said, they have a habit of imploding, and you'll be all alone with everybody hating each other in the ex-guild and we not playing with the gloating babies who can whaa that everybody is denying them for being the type A's they were.


It's important to forgive, but not to forget.
Somebody starts hording, we stop sharing.
Somebody asks for help, we give and they give back to us.
Somebody doesn't involve us, that's fine, but we can't help them either if they get propriatary on our butts.

It's a dang GAME, stop acting like you have to have more toys than we can taunting a no trade trade window of your oh so uber crapola.
We won't PvP you we won't respond to your tells, we'll squelch you, and if we have to report you for harassing us when we said go away, we can!

So if by chance any of the guildies of the secret kingdom are reading this, open your gates or live alone, but stop heckling the citizens trying to make a difference while you go all illuminati on us!

And if somebody finds the breakthrough and shares, you will be revered as a hero and demigod of the masses! You will be credited as THE first even if not since you REVEALED your invention to us, wile the others hit it in their secret tower.....

So it's a game have fun...for all of us,me and you and we, please?


Cowd I hereby absolve you of any blame and designate you human and have the right to err. I also designater X a mystery and any further talk is rumor and heresay not to be trusted without proof, not rant or opinions no matter how truthful.

And I hereby designate the monster Kargon a true Marytr for the items lost and the life he lost over and over for the cause. Your reward was duly earned man-beast.


And I'm just another human poster trying to find the truth and not be excluded like anybody else here.


And since nobody posted an answer...twice, did ANYBODY simply try 5 basic raid ingredients in a altar no power stone?

If no, why not; everything else has been suggested?


Victory or death...to those devils!

[Shima-ra]

Geez this prank is getting you angry Query.

[Shima-ra]

I beleive there is a mistake in your book.

States: Ethereal + Escalation + Air = Wpn: +6 Cha -:- Equip: Wiz VI & Wis Skill +1


Shouldnt it be cha skill +1?

[UtherSRG]

Here's an update of my plans and progress.


Sceptre

EEF: +6 INT (done)
EEN: +1 INT (done)
EEF/EEN: +2 INT (done)


Goggles

EEN: Wiz VI, Int Skills +1 (done)
EEF: +50 sp, Int Skills +2 (done)
EEN/EEF: +100 sp, Int Skills +3 (need ingredients and shard)


Bracers

MON: Blindness & Disease Immunity
MON: Proof Against Poison & Fear Immunity
MON: Deathblock


Boots

MEE: +10 hp, +1 CON skills
MEP: +15 hp, +2 CON skills
MEE/MEP: +20 hp, +3 CON skills


For my Bard:

Helm

EEP: Wiz VI, +1 Cha Skills (done)
EEP: +50 sp, +2 Cha Skills (done)
EEP: +100 sp, +3 Cha Skills (need ingredients)


For my Cleric:
*Goggles

EEN: Wiz VI, +1 Int Skills (done)
EEP: +50 sp, +2 Cha Skills (done)
+6 WIS, etc
EEN/EEP: +100 sp, +2 Cha skills (need ingredients)


I'm starting to think that the "difficult" 3rd tier upgrade requires two imbued shards of supreme power, one to match the first upgrade and the 2nd to match the 2nd upgrade. I just completed the raid for the first time, on my cleric. My Wizard is going to pick up the charge now and push for completion of her F/N/FN scepter. All donations on the Lhazaar... er... Ghallanda server are welcome. :) Since she's going for completions, she'll also be pushing for the essence of cleansing, so she'll be working on her Bracers or Boots.

[Cambo]

I beleive there is a mistake in your book.

States: Ethereal + Escalation + Air = Wpn: +6 Cha -:- Equip: Wiz VI & Wis Skill +1
Shouldnt it be cha skill +1?


thanks fixed

[brdy179]

K, so i've gone and crafted a green steel helm with:
1st) Etheral Escalation Earth
2nd) Etheral Escalation Air

for third stage am going
Etheral Escalation xxxx? was thinking positive, air or earth

any suggestions on what to imbue for 3rd stage?

*note that i'll get some stats up for the item tomorrow*

[Kargon]

*Drumroll*

[Assio]

It's the Silence before the storm!

[mudfud]

Hmmm gonna ninja-post Willphase!
Come on already!

[Kargon]

Silly willmaphase type too slow, kargon arms tired from bang drums....

*More drumroll*

[geoffhanna]

... but still may add value as it is not listed in the image list (http://will.phase.net/ddo/items/).

I used Ethereal + Escalation + Positive twice. I intend to do it again, unless POS/POS/AIR yields something better than Disruption Guard.

http://www.hannasolutions.com/DDO/tier2bracers.JPG

Hmmm I just noticed something unexpected about these bracers (crafted last night) and the goggles I made last week. Both are ML11. I kind of assumed they would be ML13 since greensteel weapons are now ML12. But I guess not. What were they before the latest patch?

[mudfud]

Kargon...Why not just turn a ham sideways and beat on it.
Get the ham softer and less hurt on head.

[Kargon]

Hey that not willmaphase ;)

*even more drumroll*

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Here is my latest upgrade:

http://i44.tinypic.com/33ohajd.png

Thanks must go to my guild (Neo Skullriders) for all the donations of large ingredients so I could carry out this upgrade. I also want to thank all the contributers to this post for their invaluable help, especially Cambo and Inkblack for their collation of all the results, but everyone who contributed to the discussion too. I also want to thank the devs for their sometimes cryptic replies to my PMs - you know who you are! :)

Good luck in your upgrades - we now have another few dozen 3rd tier upgrades to discover!

Garth

[Assio]

Still Calm...and drum still rolling...

[mudfud]

woot tooot!
Congrats willphase

[Kargon]

Taaadaaaa!!!!! :D

[Assio]

Congradulations do Gaarth for doing a bang up job. Well Deserved bud!

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Argh you all ninjaed me!!! Now I'm not on the last page any more :(

Silly Kargon - no tasty ham for you!

Garth

[Tanka]

And we have our first non-triad tier 3 combo!

Grats Garth!

(Nice khopesh. I'm jealous.)

[KaKa]

And what was the element on the last upgrade? Since all 6 elements give the AC boost its hard to tell.

[LeLoric]

Love the results now whats the process :P

[mudfud]

And what was the element on the last upgrade? Since all 6 elements give the AC boost its hard to tell.



Love the results now whats the process :P

He was drunk out of his mind, and was randomly putting things in. Give him a few weeks to get sober and post it up.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Love the results now whats the process :P

I'm pretty tired, and going to bed now, but I've got screenshots of all the steps I took and will be posting a guide tomorrow evening when I get back from work. I promise I'm not hoarding information I just dont want to vomit screenshots over the forums while I'm incoherent. Also, unfortunately, in a fit of excitement, I told everyone at work (none of whom play DDO) I was doing this upgrade tonight, including my boss, so he'll be upset if I post screenshots in the middle of the day :)

Regards,

Garth

p.s. But if you need a hint: read my old posts - all the information you need is there.

[incubo]

Here is my latest upgrade:

Thanks must go to my guild (Neo Skullriders) for all the donations of large ingredients so I could carry out this upgrade. I also want to thank all the contributers to this post for their invaluable help, especially Cambo and Inkblack for their collation of all the results, but everyone who contributed to the discussion too. I also want to thank the devs for their sometimes cryptic replies to my PMs - you know who you are! :)

Good luck in your upgrades - we now have another few dozen 3rd tier upgrades to discover!

Garth

I would never need to use another sword, omg.

[Shima-ra]

Holy geez! Thats the exact khopesh I was about to build.
Mainly because of the combination of acid stoneskin and +4 ac.

And now its transmuting! Yikes
Thats really UBER.

So how did you make mineral more mineral? How did you choose the last element.

[Raidon]

Super Grats Will to yourself and your guild , I will always remember you :)

[Borror0]

I would never need to use another sword, omg.

Sad you upgraded your Greatsword...

Nice job willphase

[Shima-ra]

Come to think of it, its obviously water.

[jjflanigan]

Come to think of it, its obviously water.

We'll find out soon, but I'd wager he upgraded it with a mineral shard.

[EspyLacopa]

We'll find out soon, but I'd wager he upgraded it with a mineral shard.
At which point, it must be discovered how to make a Mineral Shard.

[UtherSRG]

We'll find out soon, but I'd wager he upgraded it with a mineral shard.


At which point, it must be discovered how to make a Mineral Shard.

Or upgraded it with two supreme shards at once, one Positive, one Earth.

[MysticTheurge]

I'm pretty tired, and going to bed now, but I've got screenshots of all the steps I took and will be posting a guide tomorrow evening when I get back from work.

ZOMG! A whole day of suspense!

Kargon's going to get very tired of all that drumrolling.

[UtherSRG]

ZOMG! A whole day of suspense!

Kargon's going to get very tired of all that drumrolling.

Kargon.... get tired?? Does not compute....

[MysticTheurge]

I didn't see this on your list -- did you try making the two imbued shards (i.e. positive and earth) and combining those 2 shards + power cell + empty shard to make a new shard that combines the other two into it?


I sure hope not. Or at least, if this is the case, those upgrades better be super über. You can use just one Shard of Supreme Power for a pretty useful "pure energy/element" effect. I can't see using 3 Shards of Supreme Power for the same types of effect (maybe 2 shards for similar effect). I dunno, maybe that's just me.

Well, if this was the answer, I might go so far as to say it's worth it.

[MysticTheurge]

Kargon.... get tired?? Does not compute....

Well, I'm sure he has a few potions of lesser restoration handy for just such an emergency. ;)

[Wulf_Ratbane]

As far as I am concerned that is the UBER fighter weapon. In my wildest dreams those are the exact combination of attributes I'd want.

I would never want for another weapon again.

I just have to decide if I want it on a longsword or a greatsword.

[Tanka]

Once we find out what the third elemental focus used was, we can test to see if the other elemental foci combinations from that specific element will give us the same Transmuting/Slicing/Keen combination. (Though I think the Keen is kinda superfluous. Who doesn't have Imp. Crit. in the weapon type they're using by the time they hit 12?)

[Sanadil]

Originally Posted by willphase
Whatever solution the problem of upgrading tier 2 quasi/para/special upgrades to tier 3 is, it has to be consistent for all the upgrades - so while this solution it potentially viable for the mineral upgrade, it would not expand to the other elemental combinations because the devs have already said that only the soul gems of earth are being used in the game at the moment - and there are also no gem subtypes available for many of the paraelemental combinations (e.g. smoke, magma)

I'm planing on testing the latest ideas on Monday (once I'm off timer) so we should hopefully have an answer then... I can't wait

Garth




Originally Posted by willphase

Originally Posted by Tarnoc
so her goes my latest thoughts theories

let s say you go positive and earth for an aspect of mineral

has anyone tried to imbue a shard with a (supreme one)foci of positive (supreme one)gem of escalation and the large essence of earth from a 30hd trap the soul????thus making a supreme shard of mineral????

lol maybe we only need 8 large ingreidients to make the uber upgrade

No - and I think this is the way to go. I'm not sure I'm going to need a 3rd empty shard though - I think they will probably just 'combine' with the power cell.

I just need 4 more large ingredients to test this theory - hopefully they will materialise.

Garth


Taking will's advice, I looked back at some of his posts in this thread, I believe we have our answer, but should wait for his official word :)

So, if you went posotive tier1, earth tier2, then at tier3, take a posotive supreme imbued shard, and a earth supreme impued shard, and combine them together with a energy orb, to create ????, then put that on the weapon, you get your super tier3... Just my opinion, but if the answer is in his posts, this is probably it...

[Turial]

Looks like willphase went:

PDM
EDM
?OE

[Angelus_dead]

Who doesn't have Imp. Crit. in the weapon type they're using by the time they hit 12?)
Someone who says "Oh joy, a +5 transmuting weapon with 3d6+XYZ extra damage, I'll never use another weapon again. Guess I can swap Imp Crit for toughness"

[UtherSRG]

Someone who says "Oh joy, a +5 transmuting weapon with 3d6+XYZ extra damage, I'll never use another weapon again. Guess I can swap Imp Crit for toughness"

/QFT

Exactly. If you are never going to swap to another weapon (or you are going to create/use only weapons with Keen) then there is no need for the feat, so you might as well respec to Toughness or some other feat.

[Tanka]

Someone who says "Oh joy, a +5 transmuting weapon with 3d6+XYZ extra damage, I'll never use another weapon again. Guess I can swap Imp Crit for toughness"
And then when the next mod comes out and somebody else crafts a big-bad and that big-bad doesn't have Imp Crit, they have to respec again to get it back.

At low levels, it rocks.

At high levels? It's a joke, and we all know it.

[MysticTheurge]

And then when the next mod comes out and somebody else crafts a big-bad and that big-bad doesn't have Imp Crit, they have to respec again to get it back.

And?

You've got to find a use for all those Siberys Dragonshard Fragments that are dropping. ;)

[UtherSRG]

And then when the next mod comes out and somebody else crafts a big-bad and that big-bad doesn't have Imp Crit, they have to respec again to get it back.

At low levels, it rocks.

At high levels? It's a joke, and we all know it.

Like MT said: And?

Here's how I work with my characters with respect to something similar, as they level up and acquire better items. Let's take my Wizard for example. I always maintained an even INT value, no matter what her INT items were. If I got a new INT item that bumps her up to an odd value, I buy back her top INT enhancement and use those extra APs for something else. When she can then buy +2 INT she does so, buying back those extra APs again, or she puts on yet another better INT item.

The same can be done with someone who only uses weapons with Keen. They can buy back their Imp Crit feat for something else. Then, when they discard Keen, they can buy back Imp Crit again.

It's all in the trade off.

[Tanka]

And the weapon isn't useful 100% of the time, so it's also not wise to respec out a feat that is useful across the board.

Eladrins, for instance, will only take the base damage from the weapon. Neither Holy nor Acid will affect them. You're better off with a Transmuting of Greater Bane for them.

You still want to use smiters and banishers sometimes, right? Imp Crit helps with that (OK, not so much the banisher on a slasher, but the point remains).

You may not be gimping yourself, but you're making your own questing that much more difficult by going with the Flavor Of The Month.

[Keneith]

Congrats, Will! U're the Man!
Hmm..now tat Will has unlock the tier 3 combos, n even manage to get Transmute, Keen & Slicing, I belive with the rite combinations, Vorps, paralyzing, cursespewing, Wounding & puncturing mayb open for us too...
All we need is to find the rite combination..i hope so...:o

[MysticTheurge]

You may not be gimping yourself, but you're making your own questing that much more difficult by going with the Flavor Of The Month.

Don't try anything new or different! It'll make everything harder!


:rolleyes:

[UtherSRG]

Congrats, Will! U're the Man!
Hmm..now tat Will has unlock the tier 3 combos, n even manage to get Transmute, Keen & Slicing, I belive with the rite combinations, Vorps, paralyzing, cursespewing, Wounding & puncturing mayb open for us too...
All we need is to find the rite combination..i hope so...:o

Hrm... I don't think they'd go so far as to give us the ability to make vorpals or the other big 5... yet. But it's time to start listing the 3rd tier bonuses...

Mineral: Weapon: Keen, Transmuting, Slicing, enhanced durability & hardness? - Item:
Radiance: Weapon: - Item:
Steam: Weapon: - Item:
Lightning: Weapon: - Item:
Dust: Weapon: - Item:
Ash: Weapon: - Item:
Salt: Weapon: - Item:
Vacuum: Weapon: - Item:
Existential Stalemate: Weapon: - Item:
Smoke: Weapon: - Item:
Magma: Weapon: - Item:
Ooze: Weapon: - Item:
Ice: Weapon: - Item:
Tempered: Weapon: - Item:
Balance of Land and Sky: Weapon: - Item:




Don't try anything new or different! It'll make everything harder!


:rolleyes:


LOL!!

[Mad_Bombardier]

Well, if this was the answer, I might go so far as to say it's worth it.Yup. :D

[Aeneas]

any evidence to suggest that you can't double up the same type of focus in the altar of devastation? A supreme fire and a supreme fire for instance?

[Borror0]

any evidence to suggest that you can't double up the same type of focus in the altar of devastation? A supreme fire and a supreme fire for instance?

Eladrin said so?:D

[EspyLacopa]

Eladrin said so?:D

So. . . .

What happens if you do the following upgrade path:

Weapon:
Tier One: AEE (+6 Charisma)
Tier Two: FEO (+2 Insight AC, plus Aspect of Smoke; Displacement clickie)
Tier Three: Combine +EE with -MO (+2 Charisma PLUS 15% Negative Absorption?????)

I'm rather curious what that'd do as a standalone Tier 3 Bonus.

[LeLoric]

Eladrins, for instance, will only take the base damage from the weapon. Neither Holy nor Acid will affect them. You're better off with a Transmuting of Greater Bane for them.
.

Eladrins do take full dmg from acid plus they would be subject to the slicing

[Ilandrya]

I'm going to speculate that the "uber" special third tier bonuses are:

balance of land and sky w/ tempered
existential stalemate w/ balance of land and sky
existential stalemate w/ tempered

No way of knowing at this point if the order will matter, but if it does, that's six possibilities instead of three.


As a Cleric, when I found out that existential stalemate was changed from +4 to +6 Wis on accessories at 6.1, I slightly altered what I was planning with my goggles and went:

material/opposition/negative
ethereal/escalation/positive

for third tier now I don't know if I'm going:

ethereal/escalation/air + earth which should still give me the +100 spell points and +3 to cha based skills which may create an "uber" third tier bonus effect

or

ethereal/escalation/pos + neg and play it safe with another existential stalemate


Also, just an fyi, someone on my server has pulled the essence of cleansing and from the report I'm hearing, it's bind on aquire.

[Coldin]

Well depending on how you put Mineral onto an item, you might actually be able to make a sword that was Positive at the first two altars, then put mineral on at the last one, which might give you Transmuting/Slicing/Keen.

The only reason I'm kinda thinking this is because of the difference of the Mineral Sword, and all the other 3 tiered weapons we've seen so far like Fire+Fire+Fire.

A 3-tiered fire description lists a Fire Affinity, then an Aspect of Fire. Nothing special is listed for the 3rd tier except that it took on the Incineration power.

The Mineral sword though lists a Positive Affinity (from the first tier), an Aspect of Mineral (from the combo of Positive + Earth), and then a "Mineral" description, possibly recording that a Shard attuned to Mineral was added to the weapon.

Just really random thoughts right now, since we don't know how he made it, but I thought it might help.

[Kargon]

Next up on Kargon list are some rangermer goggamels:

Posimitive Escalatimion Etheremeal
Negamative Oppomositimion Materimial
Posimitive Oppomositimion Materimial shard combined with Negamative Opposimition Materimial shard

Should be fun stuff.

[Ilandrya]

Well depending on how you put Mineral onto an item, you might actually be able to make a sword that was Positive at the first two altars, then put mineral on at the last one, which might give you Transmuting/Slicing/Keen.

The only reason I'm kinda thinking this is because of the difference of the Mineral Sword, and all the other 3 tiered weapons we've seen so far like Fire+Fire+Fire.

A 3-tiered fire description lists a Fire Affinity, then an Aspect of Fire. Nothing special is listed for the 3rd tier except that it took on the Incineration power.

The Mineral sword though lists a Positive Affinity (from the first tier), an Aspect of Mineral (from the combo of Positive + Earth), and then a "Mineral" description, possibly recording that a Shard attuned to Mineral was added to the weapon.

Just really random thoughts right now, since we don't know how he made it, but I thought it might help.


Since your first "aspect" if you will is written in stone at the second upgrade, I think your second "aspect" will only be possible at the third altar. However, it's possible that two mixed aspects will result only in the first aspect bonus for each aspect, while a second identical aspect will result in the getting both the first and second aspect bonuses. I'll be interested to see how it works out for balances in particular.

I suspect... example:

aspect of mineral and aspect of ooze will result getting two "aspect 1" bonuses
aspect of mineral and aspect of mineral results in "aspect 1" and "aspect 2" bonuses

Again, interested to see how the balances play out.

Edit: Upon thinking on this some more, it's also possible that like the altars, each upgrade is stronger than the last, so you might get aspect of mineral 1 and aspect of ooze 2 in my example above instead.

[Tomalon]

Here is my latest upgrade:

http://will.phase.net/ddo/items/tier%203/supremetyrantmineralkhopesh.jpg

Thanks must go to my guild (Neo Skullriders) for all the donations of large ingredients so I could carry out this upgrade. I also want to thank all the contributers to this post for their invaluable help, especially Cambo and Inkblack for their collation of all the results, but everyone who contributed to the discussion too. I also want to thank the devs for their sometimes cryptic replies to my PMs - you know who you are! :)

Good luck in your upgrades - we now have another few dozen 3rd tier upgrades to discover!

Garth

CONGRATZ!!!!! nice job bud. Lots of hard work payed off. "we now have another few dozen 3rd tier upgrades to discover!" <---let the fun start!

[Borror0]

Well depending on how you put Mineral onto an item, you might actually be able to make a sword that was Positive at the first two altars, then put mineral on at the last one, which might give you Transmuting/Slicing/Keen.

I'd be surprised. My understanding is that you get Mineral from going +/E/Mineral or E/+/Mineral, but +/+/Mineral means error. Could be wrong though, but that is my understanding of the whole. You don't get a tier three bonus from P/W/P, so I would assume the same logic here: upgrading with mineral something without aspect of mineral would yield no special bonus.


Weapon:
Tier One: AEE (+6 Charisma)
Tier Two: FEO (+2 Insight AC, plus Aspect of Smoke; Displacement clickie)
Tier Three: Combine +EE with -MO (+2 Charisma PLUS 15% Negative Absorption?????)

Well, you cannot have two bonus at tier three. If you look at willphase's khopesh, you'll notice that the only tier 3 bonus he has is Heighten Awareness 4. So, you'd guess he only gets the bonus from one shard, no matter the amount of shard he has used.

Secondly, I doubt that you would get any tier three bonus from A/F/(+ or -), I think you'd have to go Smoke... but I could be wrong.

[Ikuryo]

I went back and looked over the old weapons and noticed something with potential. If you go through the weapons and items you will find that they all have affinity for tier 1 and aspect for tier 2 but have no label for the tier 3 bonus, in fact the element used for the 3rd tier is not even listed. This leads me to suspect that we can combine 2 like elements to make a better shard at the third altar (assuming thats how he got Mineral) and use that to get an even nicer upgrade. If slay living is the weaker bonus on the NNN item I REALLY want to know what the superior bonus effect is.

[Coldin]

I'd be surprised. My understanding is that you get Mineral from going +/E/Mineral or E/+/Mineral, but +/+/Mineral means error. Could be wrong though, but that is my understanding of the whole. You don't get a tier three bonus from P/W/P, so I would assume the same logic here: upgrading with mineral something without aspect of mineral would yield no special bonus.


Yeah, it's really just wild speculation at this point. It's hard to really guess at anything without knowing in which direction to guess. Be nice if people would just say what they did, than leaving everyone in dark.


I went back and looked over the old weapons and noticed something with potential. If you go through the weapons and items you will find that they all have affinity for tier 1 and aspect for tier 2 but have no label for the tier 3 bonus, in fact the element used for the 3rd tier is not even listed. This leads me to suspect that we can combine 2 like elements to make a better shard at the third altar (assuming thats how he got Mineral) and use that to get an even nicer upgrade. If slay living is the weaker bonus on the NNN item I REALLY want to know what the superior bonus effect is.

I was thinking the same thing actually.

[Borror0]

If slay living is the weaker bonus on the NNN item I REALLY want to know what the superior bonus effect is.

I doubt it, Eladrin said:



Quasi-elemental, para-elemental, and "special" tier three upgrade paths exist, and tend to have superior abilities to the "easy" elemental upgrades.

So, when you look at it, it's a bit normal that Mineral has more stuff on it than, say, -/-/-.

[Borror0]

Yeah, it's really just wild speculation at this point. It's hard to really guess at anything without knowing in which direction to guess. Be nice if people would just say what they did, than leaving everyone in dark.

Seems very long and hard to explain. I'd be thankful they will share, no matter the time it takes them to. I mean, you got to understand that RL do exist.

[EspyLacopa]

IWell, you cannot have two bonus at tier three. If you look at willphase's khopesh, you'll notice that the only tier 3 bonus he has is Heighten Awareness 4. So, you'd guess he only gets the bonus from one shard, no matter the amount of shard he has used.

Secondly, I doubt that you would get any tier three bonus from A/F/(+ or -), I think you'd have to go Smoke... but I could be wrong.

What if that third shard he used had +EO and EEO: both grant +4 Insight AC.

[Coldin]

Seems very long and hard to explain. I'd be thankful they will share, no matter the time it takes them to. I mean, you got to understand that RL do exist.

Really though, I can't see it being that hard to explain. I mean, maybe a very detailed explanation would take a while to type out. But how long would it take to say "I used two different shard of power and imbued them into my sword at the same time", or, "I combined two shards of power into another shard, and then put that into my sword."

[Borror0]

What if that third shard he used had +EO and EEO: both grant +4 Insight AC.

That would be pushing it if you ask me, first of all.

Secondly, I'd say it would appear twice.

[Gol]

What if that third shard he used had +EO and EEO: both grant +4 Insight AC.
So do 4 others. Let's just wait, shall we?

[Borror0]

Really though, I can't see it being that hard to explain. I mean, maybe a very detailed explanation would take a while to type out. But how long would it take to say "I used two different shard of power and imbued them into my sword at the same time", or, "I combined two shards of power into another shard, and then put that into my sword."

Couldn't it be more complecated than that?

[EspyLacopa]

That would be pushing it if you ask me, first of all.

Secondly, I'd say it would appear twice.
Also: if you do only get one of the two bonuses. . .How does it get decided which bonus if they are different?

[Borror0]

Also: if you do only get one of the two bonuses. . .How does it get decided which bonus if they are different?

I guess they'd have to be same Essence and Gem type. Or it could prioritise the first focus you added on the item.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

So I made my khopesh last night - thanks for all the words of congratulations, but it really was a team effort. I thank my guild (http://www.neoskullriders.com/)again for the ingredients and believing in my idea, and all the posts on this forum.

So the big question - how did I do it?

As you know, the first two steps were:

Positive Dominion Material (Holy)
Earth Dominion Material (Acid Burst)

This gave me 'aspect of mineral' Khopesh (http://will.phase.net/ddo/items/tier%202/Weapon%20+DM%20EDM.png) with the special 2nd tier bonus being stoneskin. I'd been tossing around the idea for a while that somehow I would like to somehow combine both Earth and Positive at third tier - the question was how to achieve this.

As you may remember I carried out a lot of tests (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=1590125#post1590125) last Thursday, but that put me on timer, with an imbued Shard of Supreme power in my inventory. So Monday was the day I was hoping to complete this testing. I must admit I was pretty nervous that someone would either beat me to it, or my ideas would just blow up in my face. :)

But, the question remained, how do you get two foci to combine into one weapon? Various theories had been proposed. Eladrin had said that there are no recipes with Green Steel items that have more than one shard. Eladrin also said that once a Green Steel item had been upgraded on an altar it couldn't be upgraded again. So that pretty much left two options - take an inbued power shard, and try and combine that with three more ingredients (gem, focus, essence) or try and create two shards, somehow combine them into a third shard, then imbue the weapon with that.

Now, I'd already tried combining Ethereal Essence, Gem of Escalation, Focus of Earth into my +OE shard on Thursday (thanks to Kargon for the donation), and that hadn't worked, but I hadn't tried identical gems/essences into the shard. So that was the first test I ran. This failed and consumed the power cell. I had made sure I had two spare Shards of Supreme Power, so the next test was to imbue a second shard with Earth, Opposition, Escalation - I wanted to make sure I matched the existing imbued shard for purity of experiment. This was to try and eliminate as many of the unknowns as possible before carrying out an experiment that might potentially fail - because if it failed with a mixture of gems/essences I would never know whether it was because of the mixture, or because the whole concept was unsound.

So I ended up with two imbued supreme power shards - one was +OE and one was EOE. I then tried combining them without a power cell - this failed (as expected, devs have confirmed - via PM - that all Shavarrath recipes require a power cell). So the last option I had was to try and combine the shards together.

Combine: EOE Supreme Shard, +OE Supreme Shard and Large Power Cell

This worked (woot!). I ended up with this:

http://photos.phase.net/albums/ddo/combinedshard.png

So then it was just a matter of combining this shard with my tier 2 mineral weapon, and that worked too - and you've all seen the results...

So, while this answers a lot of questions - there are still a few unanswered questions:

Do the gems/essences have to be the same for two shards to combine? I would say Yes. This is because of several reasons. Firstly - it just makes sense - look at the description of the shard - I'm not sure where the extra gem/essence information would go. In addition, look at the tier 3 upgrades - the one I got was +4 AC - but if I had gone +EM and EEM instead, I would have ended up with +2 DEX and +2 CON - again, I'm getting +4. If I'd gone +DM and EDM I am expecting I would have ended up with both holy blast and acid blast. I also suggest that the tier 2 and 3 bonuses (e.g. stoneskin, transmuting) are completely independent of the gems/essences you put in, but am happy to be proved wrong.

Also, some people have asked me - can I say, go pos/pos and then create a 'supershard' at tier 3 containing e.g. +DM and +OE and get both +4 AC and Holy Blast - I'm proposing that this probably wouldn't work because of the reasons listed above, but to eliminate this possibility someone should probably try it eventually - especially if they can use the resulting power shards in another item.

So the question many people will ask - is upgrading a quasi/para/special combination tier 2 item for this bonus is worth it? - after all, you need 24 large ingredients, and two supreme power shards. I was helped a lot by my guild (and I'm very grateful for this) but the average player is nowhere near getting even 12, let alone 24. I think whether it's worth it will depend on the as yet unknown upgrades for all the other quais/para/special combinations. I'm especially interested in seeing Kargon's existential stalemate upgrade since that already says in the description that it has 'potential'. I throw down the gauntlet for those other combinations to be discovered!

So - I wish you well in your upgrades - it looks like every quasi/para/special combination can be unlocked by just adding BOTH ingredients at level 3, but getting 24 ingredients is going to be a challenge. I highly recommend that if you already have a tier 2 quasi/para/special item, not to upgrade to tier 3 unless you're doing the 'two shard' method - it would be a 'waste' of 12 ingredients, and you will not unlock the full power of your item. Again, if you have already gone straight elemental upgrade (e.g. fire/fire) - I do not believe you will not get any tier 3 bonus unless you put fire on at tier 3 so stick with that. Someone has to update their spreadsheets I think! :)

I hope this helps,

Regards,

Garth

[EspyLacopa]

I guess they'd have to be same Essence and Gem type. Or it could prioritise the first focus you added on the item.

And if you used neither focus on that item yet?

I'm guessing one of the following:

Essence and Gem must be the same for the combined shard. This works nicely for the Ethereal Oppositions, since they all grant +4 Insight AC on a weapon.
Falls apart a bit when you consider say, Fire/Earth: Flame Blast and Acid Blast aren't really the same.
You get both third tier bonuses for the individual shards
This could be incredibly powerful, tempered by the need for double the ingredients you'd need for a regular Tier 3 upgrade, and then another Supreme Power Shard (on top of the 2 basic imbued ones already)
Prioritized third tier bonuses, and you get one or the other.
Possibly have it work as a sort of complex rock/paper/scissors, made especially complex due to the nature of focus/essence/gem.
Aspect Bonus if you do not have it already, Special Combo if you do (such as the Earth/Positive/Mineral upgrade
This could easily be how it actually works, and would allow interesting combos due to special Tier Three aspects, or simply recyling of the Tier2 combos to do some truely out there items. Still however is the facet of the Essences and Gems, and how they'd react. Possibly an entire set of new effects based on the essence and gem used?

[Coldin]

Couldn't it be more complecated than that?

Maybe, but I kinda doubt it. I think there's only 2 reasons that this special 3rd tier upgrade isn't more well known. First, it takes a bunch of time to gather up the Large ingredients necessary to make an upgrade, because of how long the raid is itself, and how frequently the ingredients drop. Second, because the people that supposedly have discovered these recipes are hording the secrets to them. It all just seems a little selfish to me that's all.

Now, I'm not really speaking out against willphase. At least he's posted a screenshot showing off this effect, and I can't wait till he says how he did it.

Edit: Well, he posted while I was posting. Thanks willphase.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Now, I'm not really speaking out against willphase. At least he's posted a screenshot showing off this effect, and I can't wait till he says how he did it.

:eek:

Garth

[artvan_delet]

A fine accomplishment. It was memorable to be on this run during the momentous crafting. Well done Garth and NSR. I have 24 large ingredients, so I'll definitely be in touch when I upgrade my khopesh for Inzane. Congrats again.

-Inzane/Vandelet.

[Coldin]

:eek:

Garth

Hehe, figures you would post back as I ranted a little. :)

Thanks for sharing how you did it.

[Ilandrya]

Ok so now that we know two shards can be combined to create an aspect shard, I'm now wondering if you can do this at the first level of upgrade....

Invasion shard/shard= aspect
Subjugation shard/shard= aspect
Devastation shard/shard= aspect

The devs did say something if I remember correctly about a large number of potential outcomes, and so far I haven't been seeing that... this may explain that, and if each aspect is subsequently stronger than the last like the altars, we would have an aspect of ooze 3...

Just imagine... earth 1, air 2, fire 3.... Otto's Irresistable Ball of DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! (Currently hovering above the Marketplace tent. What better way to celebrate DDO's 2nd Anniversary than by making us dance till dawn.)

An answer in turn creates more questions... Holy timesink Batman!

Thank you Willphase for all your hard work and that of your guild. Kudos to you guys.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Ok so now that we know two shards can be combined to create an aspect shard, I'm now wondering if you can do this at the first level of upgrade....

I'm thinking not. Devs previously said that there was something different about the altar of devastation, and they had also said that we hadn't discovered something about upgrading quasi/para/special upgrades. I'm guessing the two shards at devastation answers both questions. I would be extremely (pleasantly) surprised if you could combine more than two at devastation or more than one at the other altars, but someone should probably try, if only to prove me wrong.

Garth

[Borror0]

And if you used neither focus on that item yet?

I'd say you do not get an upgrade for it!

I mean, if you try to put Mineral on +/+/+, you'd get recipe failure. Just my impression of it. Either that, or you wasted a shard and 12 large ingrediant as I am under the impression that it's the combinasion of Mineral I and Mineral II that gives the Transmuting, Slicing, Keen and not only Mineral II. A bit the same way Water/Fire/Fire gives no special effect.

[Borror0]

I'm thinking not. Devs previously said that there was something different about the altar of devastation.

Didn't they say there was "something special about the Altar of Devastation"? And Eladrin refered to Aspect of Magma as "Magma I" and to the tier three upgrade as "Magma II".

[Kargon]

I'm especially interested in seeing Kargon's existential stalemate upgrade since that already says in the description that it has 'potential'.

Kargon post updamated now that secremet out ;)

[Inkblack]

...

So I ended up with two imbued supreme power shards - one was +OE and one was EOE. I then tried combining them without a power cell - this failed (as expected, devs have confirmed - via PM - that all Shavarrath recipes require a power cell). So the last option I had was to try and combine the shards together.

This worked (woot!). I ended up with this:

http://photos.phase.net/albums/ddo/combinedshard.png

So then it was just a matter of combining this shard with my tier 2 mineral weapon, and that worked too - and you've all seen the results...

...

Very nice work!

I notice that in your screenshot, the combined shard is listed as Ethereal Earth Opposition. I wonder if it is possible to get the positive version (Ethereal Positive Opposition to keep the order the same as the picture) by changing something. Perhaps the order you put them in the altar?

That would assign "preference" to one shard, and then you know which of the two Tier 3 upgrades you would get. Not that it wouldn't be nice to get both...

Ink

[Aspenor]

I was wondering where the 1200 recipes came from....

Now I know :D

[Kargon]

Very nice work!

I notice that in your screenshot, the combined shard is listed as Ethereal Earth Opposition. I wonder if it is possible to get the positive version (Ethereal Positive Opposition to keep the order the same as the picture) by changing something. Perhaps the order you put them in the altar?

That would assign "preference" to one shard, and then you know which of the two Tier 3 upgrades you would get. Not that it wouldn't be nice to get both...

Ink

Kargon will make sure to put posimitive in first once have everymathing ready for kargon pos/neg goggamels, and kargon goggamels should prove if get both or just first one (if kargon end up with greatamer regen AND deathmablock, then will know for sure get both). Kargon about 12 ingredimients and one shard away though, hopefumully nobody beat kargon to it :)

[stockwizard5]

Nice job Will - much appreciated ...

Question 1: Why do you think that your combined shard ended up EOE rather than EOP?
Question 2: Why is your combined shard not embued anymore? Does this imply end of the line?
Question 3: Has anyone tested combining shards at Invasion or Subjugation - not that I would expect it to work - perhaps because I think maybe I did try this already - hmmm?

Now for the more practical ...

I have an EEA/EEA item, 2 supreme shards and enough large materials. We know that EEA/EEA/EEA will produce Air Guard.

Question 4: Do we think EEA + EEA might produce something like "Elemental Air"? Could that be combined?
Question 5: We assume (e.g) EEE/EEW will produce "Elemental Ooze" or some such? Could that be combined?
Question 6: Do we think that EEA/EEA eliminates any combined shard working?

Any suggestions on what upgrade people would like to see me try?

[oronisi]

If I had to guess, I'd say the upgrade to 'Tempered I' on a weapon would be vorpal. Who wants to try it? I'll be building towards 'Balance of land and sky II' on an item, but it will take me a while. I'm not holding my breath for anything exciting, hopefully just +4 to resistance and protection instead of +3. Its a bit lackluster, but powerful none-the-less.

[MysticTheurge]

I notice that in your screenshot, the combined shard is listed as Ethereal Earth Opposition. I wonder if it is possible to get the positive version (Ethereal Positive Opposition to keep the order the same as the picture) by changing something. Perhaps the order you put them in the altar?

That would assign "preference" to one shard, and then you know which of the two Tier 3 upgrades you would get. Not that it wouldn't be nice to get both...

That was my guess too.

[Raidon]

Quote - one was +OE and one was EOE

The Quetion remains, why was the final shard EOE and not +OE

Do you remember which order you put the items in the altar , i.e was the earth shard first?

i.e you could end up with the supershard +OE/Mineral , and not the EOE/Mineral which you got if the order in the altar was different?

This is important when deciding what normal Tier 3 upgrade one wants. Not applicable in your case as either way the bonus is +4 to AC.

lol . ditto 3 simultaneous posts :)

[Erinyes]

All I have to say is well done, and thanks to you and your guidlies for the hard work! :D

[MrCow]

The Quetion remains, why was the final [mineral] shard EOE and not +OE

Mineral sounds closer to earth than positive if you ask me.

[Ilandrya]

http://i28.tinypic.com/20tfbzs.jpghttp://i32.tinypic.com/28uipsk.jpg

Tested that recently...they come out with the same order regardless of how you put the manufactured ingredients in. I'm thinking that it probably is that the second shard you put in is combined into the first one. I doubt that it matters though because either way you'll get the same "aspect" whether it's earth/air or air/earth.

[binnsr]

Any suggestions on what upgrade people would like to see me try?
If you want a purely greedy answer, I would like to see the results of doing a tier3 upgrade of ADE and EDE (balance of land and sky - shock of acid burst) - since I already have a khopesh like that, but so far only 1 large ingredient..

[MysticTheurge]

I doubt that it matters though because either way you'll get the same "aspect" whether it's earth/air or air/earth.

Yes, but it may be that the one that's listed is the Tier III bonus you get, in addition to the special "aspect" bonus.

That is a +EE/Mineral shard may give a bonus to different skills than a EEE/Mineral shard.

[Big-Dex]

Great job to Will and his guild! We owe you one!

Okay... some thoughts...

1) I have tried combining shards at Teir 1 (Invasion) and 2 (Subjugation), but Will points out something about matching the essence and gem. I am not sure that I was that disciplined in my experimentation. Fortunately, I have almost all of my stuff from those two teirs (several imbued shards, empty shards and a pile of ingredients to mess with). So, I plan to go in tonight and try some more experiments there, just to be sure. I will record what I do just to be sure I am careful. Any suggestions from anyone are welcome. I do not have a scientifically inclined mind.

2) Eladrin referred to "Magma I" and "Magma II" in his post. I have written him for clarification on that terminology. If there is a "Magma I" and a "Magma II" ... it might be that we have not capped out yet on the upgrades. If "Magma I" is "Magma" (or "Mineral" in Will's Khopesh), then we still have a "Magma II" to discover. If "Aspect of Magma" is "Magma I" and "Magma" is "Magma II" as Eladrin wrote them, and his lingo was off, then we have capped out. I am curious. I hope Eladrin will clarify here or in answer to a PM. This is important stuffs (as far as gametime is concerned).

Heh! SCRATCH ALL OF THE ABOVE! HOLD THE PRESSES! As I was writing this, Eladrin wrote me back and said, "WillPhase's Khopesh is "Mineral II" using my terminology."

SO THERE YOU HAVE IT! WILL ... you and your gang have cracked the code. We now know the cap, we just have to figure the variations! Good job guys!

~ DEX

[Ilandrya]

Yes, but it may be that the one that's listed is the Tier III bonus you get, in addition to the special "aspect" bonus.

That is a +EE/Mineral shard may give a bonus to different skills than a EEE/Mineral shard.

I follow you... I was thinking only in regard to the aspect bonus.

Willphase... do you remember the order of the shards when you put them into the altar?

[MysticTheurge]

2) Eladrin referred to "Magma I" and "Magma II" in his post. I have written him for clarification on that terminology. If there is a "Magma I" and a "Magma II" ... it might be that we have not capped out yet on the upgrades. If "Magma I" is "Magma" (or "Mineral" in Will's Khopesh), then we still have a "Magma II" to discover. If "Aspect of Magma" is "Magma I" and "Magma" is "Magma II" as Eladrin wrote them, and his lingo was off, then we have capped out. I am curious. I hope Eladrin will clarify here or in answer to a PM. This is important stuffs (as far as gametime is concerned).

It seems likely that Eladrin was referring to "Aspect of Magma" (Magma I) and the presumed third tier "Magma" upgrade (Magma II).

[Big-Dex]

It seems likely that Eladrin was referring to "Aspect of Magma" (Magma I) and the presumed third tier "Magma" upgrade (Magma II).

AYE...

It is not "likely" ... that is the case. Note the end of my post. He has confirmed this.

[juniorpfactors]

Positive Dominion Material on alter 1 and 2.....on kopesh....

i take it there is nothing we can build on 3 by combining multiple shards to yield something extra special.... correct?

[Eladrin]

It seems likely that Eladrin was referring to "Aspect of Magma" (Magma I) and the presumed third tier "Magma" upgrade (Magma II).
I've found that I've confused a lot of people by using my curious terminology. ;)

Aspect of Magma (Fire + Earth or Earth + Fire) is "Magma I". It can be upgraded to "Magma II" at the third altar if the correct things are added to it.

[MysticTheurge]

So it seems unlikely (if not impossible) for the weapon/item effects on tier III bonuses to be the same.

I mean, you can't have Transmuting, Slicing, Keen goggles, right. (Or if you did, you couldn't really wear them... :eek:)

So I'm very curious to see how all these turn out. Get to work you people with lots of ingredients!

[mgoldb2]

A great thanks to willphase and his guild for spending the time to figure this out.

Well guess it back to looting shroud for me I just went from needing 1 more large to needing 13 more :p

Currently I have bracers wtih

Earth/Escalation/Material
Air/Escalation/Material

And will do with new info
Earth/Escalation/Material + Air/Escalation/Material for third tier

If someone dont beat me to it I give the results when I get the ingrediants.

[barecm]

I have a bow with FEM + EOM which gives the aspect of magma or "magma I." I plan on adding EOM to see if that works, but I am about 7 large ingredients shy. I figure, worst case scenario is I have a bow with acid burst and acid blast on it with a +6 dex and aspect of magma.

**My biggest issue now is that I keep joining groups that fail in part 4. If anyone has a group doing 1 - 4 runs and has an opening for my ranger (or barb or sorc), let me know.

[Dane_McArdy]

So it seems unlikely (if not impossible) for the weapon/item effects on tier III bonuses to be the same.

I mean, you can't have Transmuting, Slicing, Keen goggles, right. (Or if you did, you couldn't really wear them... :eek:)

So I'm very curious to see how all these turn out. Get to work you people with lots of ingredients!

I think slicing or Keen goggles would cut you. I'm just saying.

:D

[Wulf_Ratbane]

I think slicing or Keen goggles would cut you. I'm just saying.

:D

Goggles of Naked Janet Reno.

(They make your eyes bleed.)

[Inkblack]

Updated my spreadsheet to track the new bonuses based on a few assumptions:

If dominant focuses exist, they do not change the outcome.
Gems have no effect on the bonus.
Essences have no effect on the bonus.
EDIT: Combining pure focuses does NOT result in additional benefits.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pLaIqDL_IzJRx5CcCEpCaYg

It's the last tab, "Tier 3 Bonuses". I deleted the old "Tier 3 Upgrades" and "Tier 3 Gems".

Cheers,
Ink

[Missing_Minds]

I think slicing or Keen goggles would cut you. I'm just saying.

:D

naw, you just have sharp eyesight.

[Vesuvia]

**My biggest issue now is that I keep joining groups that fail in part 4. If anyone has a group doing 1 - 4 runs and has an opening for my ranger (or barb or sorc), let me know.

Simply Shavarath has Generals and so does your party.


I'm just going to throw this out there because I lead groups on Ghallanda 1-4 very frequently. You need one person to step up and take charge before you even enter pt 4 which is the most crucial this is done. That person needs to assign people appropriate duties. As in casters to portals (for gnolls) and secondary jobs as in refreshing stoneskin/displacement on tanks. Clerics are assigned to tanks, use area cures unless 1-2 of there people they are assigned to gets hurt badly then do full heal. Drop ONE dancing ball when you go in to take the first 2 waves of devils, and everytime he flies up gather in a corner (I prefer SW) for rebuffs (haste/rage/bard songs), and after his second fly over another dancing ball in center. Keeping everyone in the dancing ball will keep them in range for area cure, and the devils dancing most of the time. This also will have pre-prepped all fighters in the center of the room to begin damaging him as SOON as he gets down. Without having people running around or trying to get in position. If people die, and this does happen be quick to reassign or adjust previous assignments, as in picking up portals if a squishy caster dies, etc. After devils die, call out tanks center, casters portals or something of the sort. Everyone that is not in direct combat with him needs to take care of themselves via heal scrolls/pots. Keep people on the same page and you should have NO trouble pugging this with an extremely high &#37; of never failing. Yes give the "speech" as my guys usually give me grief about but those that aren't familiar running with you ..you will need to get them on the same page. Although they give me some smack talk like um...bio for 5 during the speech...they will always run with me because failure is not an option.

[Gol]

I think slicing or Keen goggles would cut you. I'm just saying.

:D
I'd think more like telephoto (keen) lenses of x-ray vision (slicing) ;)

[MysticTheurge]

I plan on adding EOM to see if that works, but I am about 7 large ingredients shy. I figure, worst case scenario is I have a bow with acid burst and acid blast on it with a +6 dex and aspect of magma.

According to current prevailing theory (Thanks willphase) it won't work.

What you should do is make an EOM shard and an F?? (possibly requires FOM, but unclear) and combine those at the Altar of Devastation. Then put the resulting Magma shard onto your bow.

[Pecky]

Why the dance ball in the center? I've seen groups to do this but I never understood the reason. Always seems like a waste of spell points.

[Vesuvia]

Why the dance ball in the center? I've seen groups to do this but I never understood the reason. Always seems like a waste of spell points.

Edited original post to include reason.

[Gol]

Edited original post to include reason.
Center is a bad idea, he can hit you with the rocks he throws, there. Do it in the corner and you're safe. The devils will come to you.

[Vesuvia]

It is not a bad idea as after his second fly over he no longer does meteor swarm. It's good to buff in the corner but after it's good to get in central position. The quicker your tanks are all in position and on him the better off you are. Also, I'd note to tell them to be on all sides of him and not together grouped up.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

DDO Wiki page for the Altar of Devastation (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Altar_of_Subjugation_-_Manufactured_Ingredient_Recipes) has been updated to reflect what we have learned.

I have put in placeholders for each of the Subjugation Altar "Aspects". I am going on the assumption that the order will not matter (as it did not on the Altar of Subjugation). I know this means that the data is a little harder to read, but I want to get it all updated as we learn about it, then worry about ease of reading later. This should also provide a view for everyone to know what ones have not yet been tested.


Questions: Did willphase happen to get a ScreenShot of the Khopesh before the Devastation Altar upgrade, so we can get an idea of how much hardness and durability was added to the weapon?

Question: One of the first things that needs to be tested is a Devastation Combination where the 2 different Shards would have given different bonuses (ie. NOT The +4 Insight AC Bonus) to see if we get one set, the other, or both. ie. -EE // +EE // -EE & +EE for Existential Stalemate II on an Item... do we get Int Skills +3 or Cha Skills +3 or both? Or for a Weapon: +DM // EDM // +DM & EDM... Holy + Acid Burst + ??? (Do we get Good Burst, Acid Burst, or Both Bursts?)... and if we only get one of the two, it needs to be recorded which Shard went into the Altar First, and then compare with the upgrade order...

IE: Positive // Earth // Positive + Earth
vs. Positive // Earth // Earth + Positive
vs. Earth // Positive // Earth + Positive
vs. Earth // Positive // Positive + Earth

Is there a difference in what we get for the basic Altar of Devastation Upgrades (Good Burst vs. Acid Burst).

Question: In order to combine the 2 Supreme Shards, do they have to use the same Gem & Essence? What happens if you mix +OE & EDM, for example?

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Updated my spreadsheet to track the new bonuses based on a few assumptions:


Thanks for the update - your sheet was invaluable in my experiementation :)


It is assumed that the gems and essences must be the same. It is also assumed that there is some way to assign preference for the dominant upgrade (ex: if one focus gives you +2 Dexterity and one gives you +2 Strength, there must be a way to pick which one you get). It is unconfirmed, but the FIRST shard is assumed to be the dominant shard. Once you have combined your two shards, proceed as normal in attaching it to your weapon or item.

I don't agree with this. My theory is that you could get both. Order of shards has never mattered in the past, and I don't think matters now. I would even go as far as to say that Earth then Pos then Earth+Pos should result in the same thing as Pos then Earth then Pos+Earth (except the individual tier effects of course!).

The only reason why I only got 'one' tier 3 upgrade on my khopesh is that all elemental variants of the Opposition, Ethereal combinations provide +4 AC, and the devs (correctly) coded the 'two' +4 ACs to only appear once on the weapon. As I said in my post, if I had gone +DM and EDM my expectation is that I would have got both Acid Blast and Good Blast (but I wanted the AC)

Regards,

Garth

[MysticTheurge]

You know, we also really need to check to see if you have to upgrade from one quasi/para combination to the same one.

Can I get Magma I and then get Mineral II?

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Questions: Did willphase happen to get a ScreenShot of the Khopesh before the Devastation Altar upgrade, so we can get an idea of how much hardness and durability was added to the weapon?

yes - check my post, or here (http://will.phase.net/ddo/items/tier%202/Weapon%20+DM%20EDM.png). It was 15 - it went up to 23.



Question: One of the first things that needs to be tested is a Devastation Combination where the 2 different Shards would have given different bonuses (ie. NOT The +4 Insight AC Bonus) to see if we get one set, the other, or both. ie. -EE // +EE // -EE & +EE for Existential Stalemate II on an Item... do we get Int Skills +3 or Cha Skills +3 or both? Or for a Weapon: +DM // EDM // +DM & EDM... Holy + Acid Burst + ??? (Do we get Good Burst, Acid Burst, or Both Bursts?)... and if we only get one of the two, it needs to be recorded which Shard went into the Altar First, and then compare with the upgrade order...


Again, my thoughts are that order doesn't matter (but for the record I put them in Earth/Pos/Cell) I strongly believe that the crafting engine that Pilato wrote just doesn't take it into account. Very willing to be proved wrong, but I'd be extremely surprised. Eladrin/Pilato might be able to confirm. (/poke)


Question: In order to combine the 2 Supreme Shards, do they have to use the same Gem & Essence? What happens if you mix +OE & EDM, for example?

This is a good question. I'm thinking that shards with differing gems/essences just won't combine. I wasn't willing to take the risk with the guild's 24 ingredients. See my post for more arguments why I think they have to be the same.

Garth

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

You know, we also really need to check to see if you have to upgrade from one quasi/para combination to the same one.

Can I get Magma I and then get Mineral II?
Q. Can you confirm whether all 2nd tier para or quasi elemental combinations can be successfully upgraded into a 3rd tier 'bonus special effect', or just some of them?

A. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=1574379#post1574379) All of them can be successfully upgraded.

You can't add fire to anything other than fire/fire (Fire I) and expect a tier 3 bonus upgrade. Equally I would expect you can't add mineral to anything except Mineral I and expect a tier 3 bonus upgrade. The devs will have wanted to make the crafting system both internally consistent and simple, I'm seriously thinking that there probably aren't any additional complications (e.g. order of shards, order of gems, order of 1st/2nd tier upgrades) - it's just a matter of getting on and discovering the remaining 14 upgrades :)

Garth

[ChildrenofBodom]

Ok, so one supreme shard was just Earth Opposition? (EO?)

And the other was Ethereal Earth Opposition? (EOE?)

Combined to make Eathereal Earth Opposition with aspect of mineral?

Is this correct...?

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Ok, so one supreme shard was just Earth Opposition? (EO?)

And the other was Ethereal Earth Opposition? (EOE?)

Combined to make Eathereal Earth Opposition with aspect of mineral?

Is this correct...?

One was +OE, the other was EOE. They combined to form the shard in the screenshot (http://photos.phase.net/albums/ddo/combinedshard.png)in my post.

Garth

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Ok, so one supreme shard was just Earth Opposition? (EO?)

And the other was Ethereal Earth Opposition? (EOE?)

Combined to make Eathereal Earth Opposition with aspect of mineral?

Is this correct...?

No, he stated that one was +OE (Positive Opposition Ethereal - +4 Insight AC Bonus) and the other was EOE (Earth Opposition Ethereal - +4 Insight AC Bonus) to create the +OE/EOE Shard (or is that +EOE? or +/EOE?)

[Sanadil]

Center is a bad idea, he can hit you with the rocks he throws, there. Do it in the corner and you're safe. The devils will come to you.

We use the side for the dancing ball too. The only thing we do differently, is stone one of the devils, and don't kill it. That gives you about a 3-5 minute window, where you can heal up, take a breather, and get people in position, and ready for when he comes down again. Once everyone is ready, 1 tank kills the last devil, and runs to the center to meet up with the rest.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

No, he stated that one was +OE (Positive Opposition Ethereal - +4 Insight AC Bonus) and the other was EOE (Earth Opposition Ethereal - +4 Insight AC Bonus) to create the +OE/EOE Shard (or is that +EOE? or +/EOE?)

I've been thinking all day about a new notation for the tier 3 updates that's backwards compatable with the existing one.

I'm thinking (given I don't think order matters) - my weapon is:

+DM//EDM//(+E)OE

Where a ( ) notation is a combination of shards (given I don't think you will be able to combine shards with different gems/essences)

Happy to accept suggestions though.

Garth

[Inkblack]

...
I don't agree with this. My theory is that you could get both. Order of shards has never mattered in the past, and I don't think matters now. I would even go as far as to say that Earth then Pos then Earth+Pos should result in the same thing as Pos then Earth then Pos+Earth (except the individual tier effects of course!).

The only reason why I only got 'one' tier 3 upgrade on my khopesh is that all elemental variants of the Opposition, Ethereal combinations provide +4 AC, and the devs (correctly) coded the 'two' +4 ACs to only appear once on the weapon. As I said in my post, if I had gone +DM and EDM my expectation is that I would have got both Acid Blast and Good Blast (but I wanted the AC)

Regards,

Garth

I rephrased it to allow for both. If someone plans to get both, but only gets one, then I hope they put the one they REALLY want in the first slot. I really hope you're right though!

Ink

[Roda]

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8315/slaylivingbowtz3.jpg

Tier 1: -/E/M
Tier 2: -/O/M
Tier 3: -/O/E

I'm pretty disappointed in how often the slay living lands. I used about 250 returning arrows when I tested in the Vale and only got 1 slay living off...

[Riggs]

Awesome work first off.
One question (since I havent done a tier 3 upgrade yet),

To combine the 2 shards, did you use Shard 1 + Shard 2 + large power cell? It seemed to be implied when you said it took 2 shards (as in - you didnt need 2 imbued shards + power cell + 3rd shard), but I just wanted to confirm the exact ingredients.

Thanks

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Awesome work first off.
One question (since I havent done a tier 3 upgrade yet),

To combine the 2 shards, did you use Shard 1 + Shard 2 + large power cell? It seemed to be implied when you said it took 2 shards (as in - you didnt need 2 imbued shards + power cell + 3rd shard), but I just wanted to confirm the exact ingredients.

Thanks

Yup I re-read my post and it was slightly ambiguous, I've corrected that.

For the record, I combined the EOE shard, the +OE shard, and a power cell - in that order (left to right), to get the combined shard. I did not put an empty shard in there. I maintain that I do not believe order matters when it comes to the final imbuing of the shard to the item.

Garth

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

yes - check my post, or here (http://will.phase.net/ddo/items/tier%202/Weapon%20+DM%20EDM.png). It was 15 - it went up to 23.

So you gained +8 Hardness and +80 Durability... Nice.




Again, my thoughts are that order doesn't matter (but for the record I put them in Earth/Pos/Cell) I strongly believe that the crafting engine that Pilato wrote just doesn't take it into account. Very willing to be proved wrong, but I'd be extremely surprised. Eladrin/Pilato might be able to confirm. (/poke)

You are probably right there... It would only make sense for the order to really not matter.



This is a good question. I'm thinking that shards with differing gems/essences just won't combine. I wasn't willing to take the risk with the guild's 24 ingredients. See my post for more arguments why I think they have to be the same.

Garth

Yeah... that is the magic question, along with whether you get both of the "Basic" Upgrade... like Holy Blast & Acid Blast... I am inclined to agree with you that you should get both... it could make for some powerful upgrades. And seeing as how I have been fairly underwhelmed by many of the Devastation Altar Upgrades, it definitely 'kicks it up a notch. I do like the idea of a Holy + Acid Burst + Good Blast + Acid Blast Khopesh!... just think 1d10 + STR + 2d6 + 1d6 + 2d10 + 4d6 + 20 + 4d6 + 20 on a 20 with confirm... that's 1d10 + STR + 11d6 + 2d10 + 40... ****!!! (

Let's take a 30-str dude and look at min/max/avg
1d10 = (1/10/5.5) *3 = 3/30/16.5
30 STR = (10) *3 = 30/30/30
2d6 Holy = 2/12/7
1d6 Acid = 1/6/3.5
2d10 Acid Burst = 2/20/11
4d6 Acid Blast = 4/24/14
20 Acid Blast Crit = 20
4d6 Good Blast = 4/24/14
20 Good Blast Crit = 20

So we have:
14-38 damage, with 26 average on a hit vs. Evil
46-146 damage with 96 average damage on a critical vs. Evil
86-186 damage, with 136 average damage on a 20 with Confirmed Critical vs. Evil

Jeez, then add in Power Attack, Bloodstone, Divine Favor, Recitation, and a fully-pumped Warchanter Bard...

Take the numbers above, and add:
5/5/5 * 3 (Power Attack)
0/0/0 normal - 18/18/18 crit - Bloodstone
3/3/3 *3 (Divine Favor)
2/2/2 *3 (Recitation)
8/8/8 *3 (Bard Buffs)

And you go to:
32-56 damage, with 44 average on a hit vs. Evil
70-170 damage, with 120 average on a critical vs. Evil
90-190 damage, with 140 average on a 20 with Confirmed Critical vs. Evil


I might be off on my numbers (I am sure that Mad_B will correct any mistakes I made, or things I left out).... but ****!!!!

[ChildrenofBodom]

OE is Positive opposition Ethereal?

Alright, you lost me.

What did you put on each shard that you combined into one, WillPhase? Telling me that will resolve my confusion, along with others. Thanks for the info. :)

And gratz btw Will. Great job.

[Pittminion]

So it seems unlikely (if not impossible) for the weapon/item effects on tier III bonuses to be the same.

I mean, you can't have Transmuting, Slicing, Keen goggles, right. (Or if you did, you couldn't really wear them... :eek:)

So I'm very curious to see how all these turn out. Get to work you people with lots of ingredients!
Sure you could, you would just have to take the feat: exotic weapon: kargon fasema bash

[Aesop]

OE is Positive opposition Ethereal?

Alright, you lost me.

What did you put on each shard that you combined into one, WillPhase? Telling me that will resolve my confusion, along with others. Thanks for the info. :)

And gratz btw Will. Great job.

+OE is Positive opposition Ethereal

note the +

Aesop

[oronisi]

Yup I re-read my post and it was slightly ambiguous, I've corrected that.

For the record, I combined the EOE shard, the +OE shard, and a power cell - in that order (left to right), to get the combined shard. I did not put an empty shard in there. I maintain that I do not believe order matters when it comes to the final imbuing of the shard to the item.

Garth


I hate to disagree with you considering how much work you've put in. But I think your screenshot that depicts your mineral imbued power shard demonstrates that you only get 1 tier 3 bonus, not both. The mineral supreme power shard depicts aspect of mineral and EOE. It does not mention the +OE at all. We'll find out soon enough I guess.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

OE is Positive opposition Ethereal?

Alright, you lost me.

What did you put on each shard that you combined into one, WillPhase? Telling me that will resolve my confusion, along with others. Thanks for the info. :)

And gratz btw Will. Great job.

+OE is Positive Opposition Ethereal
EOE is Earth Opposition Ethereal

Combining them gave what I am calling (+E)OE but really looked like that screenshot (http://photos.phase.net/albums/ddo/combinedshard.png) I posted.

While I accept the argument that, had I combined the shards in a different order, my combined shard might have said:

Ethereal Positive Opposition: This shard has been imbued with the energy of Ethereal Positive Opposition
Elemental Mineral: This item has been imbued with the power of Elemental Mineral

I am quite convinced that this would not have affected the final result on the Khopesh in any way. Perhaps Eladrin can confirm?

Sorry for any confusion, I was using the 'standard' nomenclature for shards and assuming people would be OK with that :S

Garth

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

I hate to disagree with you considering how much work you've put in. But I think your screenshot that depicts your mineral imbued power shard demonstrates that you only get 1 tier 3 bonus, not both. The mineral supreme power shard depicts aspect of mineral and EOE. It does not mention the +OE at all. We'll find out soon enough I guess.

Good point - I hadn't considered that. We'll just have to see. Next time someone does an upgrade where the tier 3 effect is different between the elements (I picked one that was the same, so unfortunately it didn't provide conclusive results), we will know for sure. I'm quite willing to be wrong.

In fact, the more and more I think about it, the more I think I've wrong (frantically goes back and edits posts...) This is why sharing the information on the forums is better than keeping it a secret!!! :)

Garth

[Mad_Bombardier]

+OE is Positive Opposition Ethereal
EOE is Earth Opposition Ethereal

Combining them gave what I am calling (+E)OE but really looked like that screenshot (http://photos.phase.net/albums/ddo/combinedshard.png) I posted."EEO/Mineral" seems a better name. A bit longer, but no room for confusion.

(*sorry. but, I have to use EEO as it specifically lists Ethereal Earth Opposition on the Shard. I think the other abbreviation order is silly.)

[Cinwulf]

edit out picture

Tier 1: -/E/M
Tier 2: -/O/M
Tier 3: -/O/E

I'm pretty disappointed in how often the slay living lands. I used about 250 returning arrows when I tested in the Vale and only got 1 slay living off...

bummer :( that's the bow I was going for but with +6 intel, if slay living doesn't work well, I'm not sure I want to do this :/

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

"EEO/Mineral" seems a better name. A bit longer, but no room for confusion.

(*sorry. but, I have to use EEO as it specifically lists Ethereal Earth Opposition on the Shard. I think the other abbreviation order is silly.)

:frantic backpedalling:

Yes, I totally agree. Seems it's likely/possible that the EOE 'took precedence' and had I gone e.g. EDM/Mineral then I would have got Acid Burst and the Mineral II stats but not Good Burst. Happy with the nomenclature you suggest. Glad open discussion is adding to the community knowledge.

Garth

p.s. I've just found out my boss has been reading my posts all day and wants to know why I'm not working! - 'Boss! get back to work!'

[Tarnoc]

in responce to your post mael from maelstrom

i personally dont wanna tell anyone wat to do but ...

your item is aee+aee for wiz 6 and 50 mana +1chr skill +2 chr skill haste clicky

wat would be neat is if you made +ee and -ee supreme shard

that way you would get your +100 mana and by theory we would know if it has both effects ie +3 chr skill and +3 int skill and maybe get estential stalemate 2

[jjflanigan]

in responce to your post mael from maelstrom

i personally dont wanna tell anyone wat to do but ...

your item is aee+aee for wiz 6 and 50 mana +1chr skill +2 chr skill haste clicky

wat would be neat is if you made +ee and -ee supreme shard

that way you would get your +100 mana and by theory we would know if it has both effects ie +3 chr skill and +3 int skill and maybe get estential stalemate 2

I can't imagine it would be possible to get existential stalemate 2....without having existential stalemate 1 to upgrade.

The "II" tier items are simply upgrades to the "I" tier items. You can't get there without having the base "I" to upgrade.

[MysticTheurge]

but for the record I put them in Earth/Pos/Cell

This, combined with the fact that Earth is the one that shows up on the final shard (http://photos.phase.net/albums/ddo/combinedshard.png), suggests to me that the first one in is the one that determines the actual third tier abilities.

It also suggests to me, that it doesn't matter what the Gem/Essence in the "secondary" shard is, as it's simply going to get subsumed into the main shard.

[Shima-ra]

Mineral accessory has got to give some good DR.
Wouldnt that be great?

[Tarnoc]

""I can't imagine it would be possible to get existential stalemate 2....without having existential stalemate 1 to upgrade.

The "II" tier items are simply upgrades to the "I" tier items. You can't get there without having the base "I" to upgrade""

now im not saying it is or is not but you make the assumption that x 2 is an upgrade to x 1 wen infact it could be x 2
just because of the power lvl of tier 3 and the use of two supreme shards and nowere in the items description is it called x 2

none knows for sure till it is tried

[Mad_Bombardier]

Mineral accessory has got to give some good DR.
Wouldnt that be great?Oooh, nice call on that one. Though it does conflict with Stoneskin clicky. Maybe Petrification Guard (a la Ancient Elements of Earth and Stone Scorpions)?

[Shima-ra]

existential stalemate mentions potential, I imagine it would possible to put a different aspect in it.
Maybe even the only effect that requires a diffrent aspect as tier3

[EspyLacopa]

I'd say you do not get an upgrade for it!

I mean, if you try to put Mineral on +/+/+, you'd get recipe failure. Just my impression of it. Either that, or you wasted a shard and 12 large ingrediant as I am under the impression that it's the combinasion of Mineral I and Mineral II that gives the Transmuting, Slicing, Keen and not only Mineral II. A bit the same way Water/Fire/Fire gives no special effect.

I'm saying putting Mineral on +/+, not on +/+/+.

[stockwizard5]

your item is aee+aee for wiz 6 and 50 mana +1chr skill +2 chr skill haste clicky

wat would be neat is if you made +ee and -ee supreme shard

that way you would get your +100 mana and by theory we would know if it has both effects ie +3 chr skill and +3 int skill and maybe get estential stalemate 2

I very much doubt this will work since it would produce Air I + Stalemate II and I think X I --> X II is all thats legal ... I also don't hold out much hope for Air+Air since Air/Air/Air = Aspect of Air (Air Guard ... is this Air II already) and I doubt there is Air III (Air/Air/Air+Air) ... that is ... is Air I --> Air II (with Air) the ONLY upgrade path for Air/Air?

I also have a leftover EEP/EEN and 1 Supreme Shard so perhaps I can test EEP/EEN/EEP+EEN tomorrow. Are we predicting that would give Existential Stalemate II? Will it have CHA +3 and INT +3, Invasion CHA +3, Subjugation INT +3 , EEP+EEN CHA +3, EEN+EEP INT +3, or will it have CHA +3 or INT +3 order independent based on some priority.

ps: I hope if Air+Air (or any other combination) is bogus it rejects it without eating two fully embued supreme shards.

[EspyLacopa]

Goggles of Naked Janet Reno.

(They make your eyes bleed.)

Goggles of Oedipus.

[Waterboy]

All respect to Neo Skullriders for working on the recipes AND SHARING! Thats a guild to be respected and admired. Truely sets them apart from others. I'm sure other players from other guilds helped so thank you to those too and no slight is intended.

Three cheers to the Skullriders!!

[Roda]

I just tested out the "negative energy absorption -20%" and it's actually -80% damage. I had a cleric use harm on me with and without the weapon equipped. Without it equipped, it did 142 damage and with it equipped, it did only 28 damage.

[Mad_Bombardier]

I just tested out the "negative energy absorption -20%" and it's actually -80% damage. I had a cleric use harm on me with and without the weapon equipped. Without it equipped, it did 142 damage and with it equipped, it did only 28 damage.That sounds like the same type of error as with Healing Amplification (though, this one in our favor). Thanks for sharing!

[jjflanigan]

""I can't imagine it would be possible to get existential stalemate 2....without having existential stalemate 1 to upgrade.

The "II" tier items are simply upgrades to the "I" tier items. You can't get there without having the base "I" to upgrade""

now im not saying it is or is not but you make the assumption that x 2 is an upgrade to x 1 wen infact it could be x 2
just because of the power lvl of tier 3 and the use of two supreme shards and nowere in the items description is it called x 2

none knows for sure till it is tried

You are right, we don't know...but it just doesn't make any sense to get a II without a I and I'd hate to see people waste ingredients.

[Shima-ra]

80&#37; is awsome, anything less wouldnt really be worth using, let alone craft. ( you'd just wear deathward)

[Cambo]

Updating Posts 1-2 with latest information.

As follows:

---------------------------------------------------
Special Note On Tier 3 Specisl Bonus Upgrade. - Thanks Willphase His Guild (and the whole Community)
Please Read Will's post before going ahead with tier 3 upgrades to confirm the evedence so far (Link to Post (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1597713&postcount=1897)) or go to that page in the thread to read responses etc (Link to Page 95 (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=132855&page=95))

At the third Altar (Devastation) You can imbue 2 shards and combine them with an enrgy orb to creat a Para Elemental II Bonus
This will require an additional 12 ingredients and an additional large shard of power.

You then combine the 2 shards to make the matching aspect to your existing tier 2 Mixed Foci Aspect* (Eg Mineral, Existential Stalemate etc)

It is speculated, but largly agreed, that you will need to match the existing aspect (eg Aspect of Mineral) to gain the bonus Similar to how Fire + Fire + Eath does not give the Any Tier 3 Bonud because you did not add fire as the third tier.

The only test so far has matched the Gem and Essence type to gain the best chance of success. Other combinations may work and we would love to know about them.

You will only gain 1 bonus from the Tier 3 Upgrade + The Tier 3 Aspect Bonus.

You cannot upgrade you weapon if it already has a Tier 3 Upgrade.

----------------------------------------------------

Mixed Foci Tier 3 Effects - More Powerful Bonus than Single Foci..
A lot more expensive (ie extra Suprem Shard of Power and 12 extra large ingredients)

You can Mix 2 Large Imbued Shards of power to gain a Mixed Aspect Benefits.
Please Read Will's post before going ahead with tier 3 upgrades to confirm the evedence so far (Link to Post (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1597713&postcount=1897)) or go to that page in the thread to read responses etc (Link to Page 95 (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=132855&page=95))


I am making a big assumption that Gem type and Essence dont matter to create the chart below but the same gem and essence are the only tested combination. My personal thoughts will be that the shard on the left of the shard combination will grant the Standard Tier 3 Effect.

Aspect of Mineral + Supreme Shard Earth & Supreme Shard Positive = Element of Mineral = Keen, Transmuting, Slicing

[Hendrik]

All respect to Neo Skullriders for working on the recipes AND SHARING! Thats a guild to be respected and admired. Truely sets them apart from others. I'm sure other players from other guilds helped so thank you to those too and no slight is intended.

Three cheers to the Skullriders!!

Heck yea!

Honored to know them!!


:cool:

[Ironwind]

Willphase and his guild might not be the first to figure out the riddle of Tier 3, but they were the first to publish their findings and that's what the world will remember. Everyone knows Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Nobody cares that Ruđer Bošković had the same idea 200 years earlier.

[Delixious]

I thought I did a Positive+Positive upgrade.
Consisting of:
Positive (Arrow, Bone, Scale, Stone)
Material (Arrow, Scale, Shrap, Stone)
Dominion (Bone, Chain, Scales, Stone)

Same for both small and medium.
I was trying to get the Holy/Good Blast/Greater Disruption, but I must have made a mistake somewhere. No big deal, but I would like some advice on my Devastation upgrade if possible. Sorry for the noobness, and thanks for the help. :)




http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg277/Delixious69/ScreenShot00122.jpg

[Keneith]

Interesting theories u all have...
Now..im wondering...the Transmuting, Keen & Slicing is from the Mineral aspect?
And the +4 AC is from the Opposition/Ethereal?
If this is the case, then, the main power of the tier 3 effect is mainly from the Foci, n nothing to do with the Gem/Essence?
All u need all 3 (foci,gem & essence) to get the bonus effect?

Jus speculation...if...(for weapons)
Mineral II = Transmuting, Keen & Slicing...
Then will...
Tempered II = Vorp? (cos inorder to b vorp, the weapon gotta b very hard & sharp to cut thru any thing on a 20)
Radiance II = Sunblade (properties of Sunblade)??

Well....if only i can get thru part 4.....:o

[Missing_Minds]

I thought I did a Positive+Positive upgrade.
Consisting of:
Positive (Arrow, Bone, Scale, Stone)
Material (Arrow, Scale, Shrap, Stone)
Dominion (Bone, Chain, Scales, Stone)

Same for both small and medium.
I was trying to get the Holy/Good Blast/Greater Disruption, but I must have made a mistake somewhere. No big deal, but I would like some advice on my Devastation upgrade if possible. Sorry for the noobness, and thanks for the help. :)


See the red? That should have been shrapnel. What you made was Opposition. You may want to check the names of what is created as you go next time, having been there and messed that up myself.

[Delixious]

See the red? That should have been shrapnel. What you made was Opposition. You may want to check the names of what is created as you go next time, having been there and messed that up myself.

Doh! :confused:
Okay, so going the same route for +30% to healing wouldnt be that bad. Will this still give me greater disruption per this?


Single Foci Tier 3 Effects
Positive + Positive + Positive = Wpn: Greater Disruption -:- Item: Greater Disruption Guard


Thanks for the quick response btw. :)

[BigNastyMP]

Nice work Garth/Willphase. I heard your shouts of Eureka! and I wasn't even in your party. Special thanks to Garth and Assio for being crafty and everyone else in NSR who contributed large ingredients. Kargon too :D

For the record, no exploits were used in the making of this item. That makes this even sweeter.

...and Ironwind, if others claim to have discovered this combination before Garth did, we will make sure to name a crater on the moon after them in their honor. It's not about what you know, it's about who you know.

[Vesuvia]

Doh! :confused:
Okay, so going the same route for +30&#37; to healing wouldnt be that bad. Will this still give me greater disruption per this?



Yes +/+/+ will give you greater disruption or guard, depending on weapon or item. However small/med ingredients are pretty easy to come by, may even consider scratching what you have for what you really want before the large ingredient investment.




Tempered II = Vorp? (cos inorder to b vorp, the weapon gotta b very hard & sharp to cut thru any thing on a 20)


That's what I thought at first two, but then again a vorpal maul? ..heheh

[Missing_Minds]

Doh! :confused:
Okay, so going the same route for +30% to healing wouldnt be that bad. Will this still give me greater disruption per this?


30% would nto be bad, but I don't think that the 20 and 10% stack though. You'll need to do some testing to see if you get 30% more healing or 1.1*1.2 more healing. I'm curious.

And yes, so long as you go positive next, you'll still get greater disruption.

[CaptGrim]

Very nice work, I'm actually excited about the crafting again :D

updated Eldritch Chart (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p0VLAaQgwZEhecNa1EUXjEA)

[Naso24]

That sounds like the same type of error as with Healing Amplification (though, this one in our favor). Thanks for sharing!

Better take the lesser version then (at least until fixed).

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

I wonder what 'slicing' becomes on a bludgeoning weapon.

Garth

[Keneith]

That's what I thought at first two, but then again a vorpal maul? ..heheh

Hmm....true...mayb for non-slashing weapon, not vorp but something of the same power?

Now...we cas start to speculate wats for the rest of aspects...

1. Mineral - Transmuting, Keen, Slicing(Bladed)/?(blunt)
2. Dust - Destruction?? (truning watever it touches to dust...like destruction)
3. Ash -
4. Radiance - Everbright? Sunbalde properties?
5. Lightning - Paralyzer? (Electricity tends to paralyse ppl for awhile.....)
6. Salt -
7. Steam -
8. Ooze -
9. Ice -
10. Tempered - Vorpal?(Bladed)/?
11. Existential Stalemate - Banisher? (Since its neutral, things that does not belongs to the prime material plane will b banished?)
12. Magma -
13. Smoke -
14. Balance of Sky & Land -
15. Vacuum -

Pls give ur ideas/theories of wat u think might be for the Tier 3 effect...

[EspyLacopa]

I thought I did a Positive+Positive upgrade.
Consisting of:
Positive (Arrow, Bone, Scale, Stone)
Material (Arrow, Scale, Shrap, Stone)
Dominion (Bone, Chain, Scales, Stone)

Same for both small and medium.
I was trying to get the Holy/Good Blast/Greater Disruption, but I must have made a mistake somewhere. No big deal, but I would like some advice on my Devastation upgrade if possible. Sorry for the noobness, and thanks for the help. :)




http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg277/Delixious69/ScreenShot00122.jpg

Looks like you used Opposition instead of Dominion.

You'll still get the Good Blast if you do Positive/Dominion/Material during that third upgrade, and since that'll be Positive, you'll still get the Greater Disruption.

[EspyLacopa]

but then again a vorpal maul? ..heheh

Vorpal *Longbow*

And it'll still be a +5 weapon with the 2 prior upgrades. . .

[vyvy3369]

As an update to the 30% Healing, the Finger Necklace DOES stack. Heal scrolls were doing 275 supposedly after equipping it, 260 without.

[Cambo]

Yes +/+/+ will give you greater disruption or guard, depending on weapon or item. However small/med ingredients are pretty easy to come by, may even consider scratching what you have for what you really want before the large ingredient investment.




That's what I thought at first two, but then again a vorpal maul? ..heheh


Or a slicing MAUL for that Matter:eek:

[Kargon]

As an update to the 30&#37; Healing, the Finger Necklace DOES stack. Heal scrolls were doing 275 supposedly after equipping it, 260 without.

kargon can confirm this, as was kargon wearaming the necklace along with the hammermer 30% and the enhancemaments 30%

And grrr... kargon at 19/24 and missing only one regulamar shard of power to try pos/neg/pos+neg. so close..

[Cambo]

One was +OE, the other was EOE. They combined to form the shard in the screenshot (http://photos.phase.net/albums/ddo/combinedshard.png)in my post.

Garth


from the screenshot of the shard and the description it looks like essence and foci can vary (ie as long as they are the right quasi upgrade) but the gem is not mentioned....so would it need to be static between the 2 upgrades.

(Also I think we can pretty well assume the previous tier 2 upgrade order is irrelevant based on this process)

[Cambo]

Hmm....true...mayb for non-slashing weapon, not vorp but something of the same power?

Now...we cas start to speculate wats for the rest of aspects...

1. Mineral - Transmuting, Keen, Slicing(Bladed)/?(blunt)
2. Dust - Destruction?? (truning watever it touches to dust...like destruction)
3. Ash -
4. Radiance - Everbright? Sunbalde properties?
5. Lightning - Paralyzer? (Electricity tends to paralyse ppl for awhile.....)
6. Salt -
7. Steam -
8. Ooze -
9. Ice -
10. Tempered - Vorpal?(Bladed)/?
11. Existential Stalemate - Banisher? (Since its neutral, things that does not belongs to the prime material plane will b banished?)
12. Magma -
13. Smoke -
14. Balance of Sky & Land -
15. Vacuum -

Pls give ur ideas/theories of wat u think might be for the Tier 3 effect...

Ill have a guess at it...

Ice = Shattermantle (icce shatters ??)
Smoke = Ghost touch ?
Vacuum = Life Stealing ?
Magma = something HOT...lol?
Balance of land and sky = Tripping like sirroco?
Ash = Destruction

[CaseStringer]

:D Grats Garth and The NeoSkullies!....2000th post FTW!!!