Stone of Change - Eldritch Rituals Cookbook

[Angelus_dead]

Should even double as a nice undead fighting weapon as the holy will work, the fire willl work on most undead (and double on mumiies) and the light dmg will work on all and double on several types (certain skeletons, vampires, lich) great for the rogues who often have trouble with undead.
Unfortunately rogues usually prefer finesse weapons, and there is no way to make a Green Steel light weapon that's either blunt (skeletons/lich) or slashing (zombies). So probably MineralII would be better against most undead, plus it will beat Vampire DR as well.

Congrats on having the 3000th post!

[Shade]

Well i figured they were 2 diffrent things because when you swing at a mob you can ether get you miss because there blurry or concealed, also you can have True seeing on and counter the blurr/displace but not the concealing effect of a cloud. O well...

Yea there are 2 types of concealement, but one never applies to players, but rather to physical effects like cloudkill, obscruring mist, etc. I'd call that one physical concealment.

Magical concealment is the one you can get on items or spells, all items that give this give the same bonus type thus do not stack, just the highest applies, so:
Dusk - from the ring - 10%
Blur/Smoke Screen - 20%
Displacement - 50%

That said, the effect is really poor and should have been better, something like 30% would of been nice.. Not overpowered, still weaker then displacement but stronger then blur.

[Elsiah]

ran rainbow on elite with kaz and illy to test out his kopesh, and the weapon is truly amazing. nearly the entire tunnel full of blinded elementals, and watching his fights with a single mob were close to wounding of puncturing in terms of kill speed. VERY impressive, and another gratz to kaz.

(go take a nap. 256 hours of continuous play might be too much.)

[gpk]

Any chance you guys can test Radiance2 Blinding DC in PvP and let us know what it is?
Thanks!

Note: I wonder if the radiance2 on an clothing item will be Blindguard, and if so why is it missing from the Holy Aura spell?

[Angelus_dead]

That said, the effect is really poor and should have been better, something like 30% would of been nice.. Not overpowered, still weaker then displacement but stronger then blur.
If it were a physical smoke giving 20% concealment instead of an illusion effect like blur, that would be very powerful in rare situations, because raid monsters like Laliat and Arraetrikos would not be able to use their Truesight ability to hit you.

[MysticTheurge]

Any chance you guys can test Radiance2 Blinding DC in PvP and let us know what it is?

I get the impression that there is no save. It's just plain blind-on-crit.


Note: I wonder if the radiance2 on an clothing item will be Blindguard, and if so why is it missing from the Holy Aura spell?

I don't think it actually is. I'll test it out again.

It's mostly just that no one uses Holy Aura cause it's not AoE like it should be.

[jakeelala]

can you blind red and purple names with Radiance 2? This is the kicker....

[Missing_Minds]

can you blind red and purple names with Radiance 2? This is the kicker....

Any reason why you should be able to any way? I'm certain you realize the whole "blanket immunity" effect the red and purples get and how if it does now, it won't in the future.

[Vinne]

That said, the effect is really poor and should have been better, something like 30% would of been nice.. Not overpowered, still weaker then displacement but stronger then blur.

Yup, totally agree.

[Mavnimo]

I assume that is EEM/AEM?


yea late night and all its fixed now

[serpentwave]

As posted earlier in Ilandrya's Cookbook, here is the Radiance II Khopesh:

http://i29.tinypic.com/24l1u2w.jpg


As I have just gotten up, I have not had a chance to test it on Red/Purple Named.
There is NO save except for blindless immunity (we tested in lobster), with a 15 second timer on blindness for mobs/pvp. This is way more time than is needed to kill any mob with it.
I can also confirm that sneak attacks will crit from the blinding effect, this might be obvious but can see the benefit for this weapon in a Rogue's hands as well. I am VERY pleased it is an awsome weapon even compared to my Pure Essence, Tier 3 khops: Goodx3 and Firex3

Once again BIG thanks to everyone that help me craft this expecially Candela :):):)

[binnsr]

Now that we know that BoLas+Tempered makes Elemental Mastery, has anyone thought about Fire + Earth + Water/Air (and other combinations that would involve all four elements) and if so, is anyone working on it? (I would but I have a total of 2 large ingredients at this point, so it'll be months before i could test anything out :))

[Zaodon]

Now that we know that BoLas+Tempered makes Elemental Mastery, has anyone thought about Fire + Earth + Water/Air (and other combinations that would involve all four elements) and if so, is anyone working on it? (I would but I have a total of 2 large ingredients at this point, so it'll be months before i could test anything out :))


BoLaS + Tempered
and
Tempered+BoLaS
both = Elemental Mastery

Magma + Ice = nothing

[Shima-ra]

Radiance really is awsome. Its the only one that is as good as Mineral.
Extra dmg on crit, sneak attack, and it gives nice defense too since mobs will have 50% chance to miss you.
Really want one for my rogue.

(now all I need is 96 large ingredients for all the ubers I want)

[binnsr]

BoLaS + Tempered
and
Tempered+BoLaS
both = Elemental Mastery

Magma + Ice = nothing

thanks .. figured it was worth asking since I seem to miss hundreds of posts at a time in this thread :)

at least I know where to go from here with my BoLaS khopesh

[Aesop]

As posted earlier in Ilandrya's Cookbook, here is the Radiance II Khopesh:




As I have just gotten up, I have not had a chance to test it on Red/Purple Named.
There is NO save except for blindless immunity (we tested in lobster), with a 15 second timer on blindness for mobs/pvp. This is way more time than is needed to kill any mob with it.
I can also confirm that sneak attacks will crit from the blinding effect, this might be obvious but can see the benefit for this weapon in a Rogue's hands as well. I am VERY pleased it is an awsome weapon even compared to my Pure Essence, Tier 3 khops: Goodx3 and Firex3

Once again BIG thanks to everyone that help me craft this expecially Candela :):):)



thank you for confirming what I will be attempting to make for my rogue (as a short sword though)

though I think I'll go for the AC insight bonus at the end over the Blast effect

Aesop

[Drith]

I wish there was some way to reverse the dominance of the final shards.

A mineral II Khopesh with Good Blast would be sooooo much better then friggen Acid Blast. *cry*

As such I think I may just get Good Blast on my Khopesh and give up on the Mineral. Still undecided though.

[maddmatt70]

Here is a list of all the unknowns that are on my spreadsheet:

Tier 1:

Water + Opposition + Ethereal + Item (Assumed to be +5 Will save)

Tier 2:

Water + Opposition + Ethereal + Item (Assumed to be +1 Insight to Will save)

Tier 3:

Air + Dominion + Material + Item (probably Electrical lore)
Earth + Dominion + Material + Item (probably Acid lore)
Fire + Dominion + Material + Item (probably Fire lore)
Water + Dominion + Material + Item (probably Frost lore)
Negative + Dominion + Material + Item (probably Void lore)
Positive + Dominion + Material + Item (probably Healing lore)
----------
Water + Opposition + Ethereal + Item (Assumed to be +2 Insight to Will save)
----------
Air + Opposition + Material + Weapon (Assumed to be Electrical Absorption)
Earth + Opposition + Material + Weapon (Assumed to be Acid Absorption)
Fire + Opposition + Material + Weapon (Assumed to be Fire Absorption)
Water + Opposition + Material + Weapon (Assumed to be Water Absorption)
Negative + Opposition + Material + Weapon (Assumed to be Negative Energy Absorption)


Tier 3 Bonuses:

Dust II + Item (Earth and Negative)
Dust II + Weapon (Earth and Negative)


If anyone has tried these or can point me to someone that has, I'd appreciate it. There are also a lot of weapons and items that I would like to see screenshots for verification purposes.

Basically there are three groups of unknowns:

The Water Opposition Ethereal items are assumed to be Will saves based on the fact that Will is the only save without 2 sources. It's just a guess. One WOE upgrade would probably be good enough to change the three unknowns to unconfirmed if it is a save bonus.
The Tier 3 Dominion Material items are assumed to be lores based on the Tier 1 and Tier 2 upgrades, again it is a guess. Any of these upgrades would be enough to remove all the unknowns and change the rest to unconfirmed.
The Tier 3 Opposition Material weapons are assumed to be absorption based on the Tier 1 and Tier 2 upgrades as well, and are guesses. However, the Tier 3 was not mentioned in the release notes when Tier 1 and Tier 2 were upgraded -- so maybe it is something different. Again, just one of these is likely to cause the rest to go from unknown to unconfirmed.


Alexander Illusionist and the others, thanks for the kind words.

Cheers,
Ink

Any word on the dominion + material + element weapons. On your spreadsheet you list it as probable. Many clerics are waiting to find if domininion + material + positive = superior devotion VI or something better.

[MysticTheurge]

BoLaS + Tempered
and
Tempered+BoLaS
both = Elemental Mastery

Magma + Ice = nothing

You've tested that? Or you're assuming?

[Coldin]

thank you for confirming what I will be attempting to make for my rogue (as a short sword though)

though I think I'll go for the AC insight bonus at the end over the Blast effect

Aesop

I'm thinking the same thing Aesop.

Flaming, Good Burst, +4 AC.

[slumbering_dragon]

ok i have been at work like crazy latly, and idont have the time to hunt this thread for the answer but here i go, i haved a aspect of mineral one on my kohpesh, now i dont want mineral 2 on there cna i just put aspect of lightning 2 on ther instead??

[Eudimio]

Any chance you guys can test Radiance2 Blinding DC in PvP and let us know what it is?
Thanks!

Note: I wonder if the radiance2 on an clothing item will be Blindguard, and if so why is it missing from the Holy Aura spell?

4 more larges and I'll smack you around all you want bud.

[Aesop]

I'm thinking the same thing Aesop.

Flaming, Good Burst, +4 AC.

I'm thinking Holy Flaming Burst +4 AC... not 100% yet though... heck I haven't been in the Shroud in 2 weeks and I've only just started getting the gear for it together

Aesop

[Inkblack]

ok i have been at work like crazy latly, and idont have the time to hunt this thread for the answer but here i go, i haved a aspect of mineral one on my kohpesh, now i dont want mineral 2 on there cna i just put aspect of lightning 2 on ther instead??

I doubt it will work, but I don't know that anyone has tried it.

Ink

[jakeelala]

Any reason why you should be able to any way? I'm certain you realize the whole "blanket immunity" effect the red and purples get and how if it does now, it won't in the future.

Have YOU tried Radiance 2 on a red or purple named boss?

if not then I suggest you not suggest the question isn't worth asking.

[Zaodon]

You've tested that? Or you're assuming?

Assuming. With the caveat that I'll wager my entire DDO account that I'm right.

Feel free to do the experiment if you've got the ingredients and time to waste, though.

[sirgog]

ok i have been at work like crazy latly, and idont have the time to hunt this thread for the answer but here i go, i haved a aspect of mineral one on my kohpesh, now i dont want mineral 2 on there cna i just put aspect of lightning 2 on ther instead??

The answer to this is very strongly believed to be that Mineral 2 is the only option.

Why would you want anything else?

Transmuting absolutely rocks. It's basically 10-15 free damage on almost every endgame foe, and 60 free damage on elite Arrietrikos. Compare that to Lightning 2, which is 600 free damage on one attack in 100.

[ChildrenofBodom]

The answer to this is very strongly believed to be that Mineral 2 is the only option.

Why would you want anything else?

Transmuting absolutely rocks. It's basically 10-15 free damage on almost every endgame foe, and 60 free damage on elite Arrietrikos. Compare that to Lightning 2, which is 600 free damage on one attack in 100.

Yes, but acid burst and blast won't work since devils have acid resist 10. So it's actually not 10-15 free damage. Its about 1-5.

I will take 600 damage in 75 hits over 1-5 extra damage anyday.

I have a lightning II bow, it goes off more then once per 100 shots.

[EspyLacopa]

Yes, but acid burst and blast won't work since devils have acid resist 10. So it's actually not 10-15 free damage. Its about 1-5.

I will take 600 damage in 75 hits over 1-5 extra damage anyday.

I have a lightning II bow, it goes off more then once per 100 shots.
In addition to 10 acid resistance, Pit fiends also have DR 15/Good and Silver. The extra 10-15 damage he was refering was to the ease of DR penetration with it.

[joeuhuh]

radience looks cool for armour tanks as well dont mobs get -4 to atack when blind that and the 4 armour makes that heluva defence wepon

[ChildrenofBodom]

In addition to 10 acid resistance, Pit fiends also have DR 15/Good and Silver. The extra 10-15 damage he was refering was to the ease of DR penetration with it.

Obviously you overlooked my point.

The acid and lightning damage is PART of the weapon's DPS.

The pit fiend is not effected by an acid weapon, but is effected by lightning. So the DPS of a Lightning II weapon(without lightning strike included) and a mineral II weapon are roughly the same. Now add the Lightning strike and Lightning II > Mineral II. This is only on normal though. On hard and elite mineral II > Lightning II, but most people just run normal for large ingredients so I find that irrelevent.

[Tallyn]

Obviously you overlooked my point.

The acid and lightning damage is PART of the weapon's DPS.

The pit fiend is not effected by an acid weapon, but is effected by lightning. So the DPS of a Lightning II weapon(without lightning strike included) and a mineral II weapon are roughly the same. Now add the Lightning strike and Lightning II > Mineral II. This is only on normal though. On hard and elite mineral II > Lightning II, but most people just run normal for large ingredients so I find that irrelevent.

It really depends on the path that was taken to get there and the weapon we are talking about.

Bow, I'd definitely say is better to have Lightning II, since you can use silver arrows.

Other weapons would be a bit more difficult to judge (Using averages):

Lightning II Weapon: Holy (7), Shocking Burst (5.5 for a x2 weapon, 11 for x3 weapon), Shocking Blast (5.5 for x2 weapon, 11 for x3 weapon, extra 14 on a natural 20), Lightning Strike (1 in 100 (thats the consensus anyways) change for extra 600 damage [+6] just going to average as a +6)

Mineral II Weapon: Holy (7), Acid Burst (5.5 for x2, 11 for x3), Acid Blast (5.5 for x2, 11 for x3, extra 14 on natural 20), Slicing (2.5)


So far come out with these numbers...

Non crit:
Lightning II +13 Damage - 15 for Pit Fiend's DR (Is it 15 on normal?)
Mineral II +9.5 Damage

Crit (Non 20):
Lightning II +24 [x2] or +33 [x3] - 15 DR
Mineral II +9.5 + 1 (11 Acid - Acid Resistance 10) [x2] or +9.5 + 12 (22 Acid - Acid Resistance 10)

Crit (20):
Lightning II +38 [x2] pr +47 [x3] - 15 DR
Mineral II +9.5 + 15 (25 - Acid Resistance 10) [x2] or 9.5 + 26 (36 Acid - Acid Resistance 10) [x3]


Hmm... by appearances it seems that:
Mineral II beats out Lightning II by 2 points on a non crit.
Mineral II beats out Lighning II on a crit (non 20) by 1.5 [x2] or 3.5 [x3]
Mineral II beats out Lightning II on a crit (20) by 1.5 [x2] or 3.5 [x3]


NOW there is one big factor I haven't tested:

Whether the Acid burst + Acid Blasts and Extra 4d6 on natural 20s are considered separate sources of Damage for the purpose of his Acid Resistance. If so, then Lightning II clearly beats out Mineral... at least for normal.

[BigBadBarry]

Yea there are 2 types of concealement, but one never applies to players, but rather to physical effects like cloudkill, obscruring mist, etc. I'd call that one physical concealment.

Magical concealment is the one you can get on items or spells, all items that give this give the same bonus type thus do not stack, just the highest applies, so:
Dusk - from the ring - 10%
Blur/Smoke Screen - 20%
Displacement - 50%

That said, the effect is really poor and should have been better, something like 30% would of been nice.. Not overpowered, still weaker then displacement but stronger then blur.

Or they could have at least made it so it is a second roll against the Smoke Screen after the Blur/Displace effect check.

[Shima-ra]

Concealement cant stack by comun sense.
If your in total darkeness or blind, you have 50% to hit, and thats the maximum.
20% is about when you can see the shape of your target, thats just the way its ruled.

I do understand tho that you'd want something better then frequent buff or the queen claok.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Whether the Acid burst + Acid Blasts and Extra 4d6 on natural 20s are considered separate sources of Damage for the purpose of his Acid Resistance. If so, then Lightning II clearly beats out Mineral... at least for normal.

I have consistently got zeros with my Mineral II khopesh on Harry, even when scoring a crit. His acid resistance seems to therefore be higher than 10 - I would guess around 20-30ish in fact.

Garth

[MysticTheurge]

Whether the Acid burst + Acid Blasts and Extra 4d6 on natural 20s are considered separate sources of Damage for the purpose of his Acid Resistance.

In DDO, they are.

[Angelus_dead]

Now add the Lightning strike and Lightning II > Mineral II. This is only on normal though.
Add in Slicing and Impact, and Mineral is once more ahead.

[Tallyn]

In DDO, they are.

Bah that sucks :(

[Tarnoc]

well here goes on the subject of dps and bows

i have 2 friends with third tier bows and i also have one below i will describe wat ive observed

friend 1 is a bowabarb with a high crit range and has a 3x positive bow
he sees big numbers but must bring 2000+ silver arrows

friend 2 is a tempest dwarf ranger and does not have imp crit ranged and has mineral 2 bow
for him he sees improved bow dps because of the keen and only needs a few hundred returners

for my toon i have lightning 2 i see lots dps and on average see the strike 4 to6 times in the fight
but i also need 2000+ silver arrows.....



so the summary i say is the bows are definately all within range of each other but are more or less
acording to how many arrows you wanna carry and your toons design...

o and p.s willpase is right acid weapons you see white goose eggs;)

[Tallyn]

I have consistently got zeros with my Mineral II khopesh on Harry, even when scoring a crit. His acid resistance seems to therefore be higher than 10 - I would guess around 20-30ish in fact.

Garth

I think its around 10 maybe a littl higher. I say this because of the damage I seem to be doing with Acid Fog. The problem is, is that it is counting each effect on a weapon that is doing acid damage as a separate source even though all the acid damage is coming from one weapon. I.e. you roll a Natural 20 on your Mineral II Khopesh (Holy, Acid Burst) and get 2d10 Acid, 2d10 Acid, and 4d6 Acid. Unfortunately that Natural 20 is giving you effectively: 2d10 Acid Damage vs 10 Acid Resist, 2d10 Acid Damage vs 10 Acid Resist, and another 4d6 Acid Damage vs 10 Acid Resist.

You may be right, if you're consistenly getting 0, then maybe his acid resist is closer to 15 or 20. If it's 20, 2d10 would never penetrate that and 4d6 would almost never. Hmm.. need to od more testing ;)

[Keneith]

1st of all, thxs to all those who contributed here on the 3rd tier effects.

Now, Im jus wondering....
Since BoLaS/Tempered or Tempered/BoLaS = Elemental Mastery (Since it contains F,W,A & E), will others like:
Smoke I/Ooze II or Ooze I/Smoke II, Magma I/Ice II or Ice I/Magma II and so on n so forth...gives u Elemental Mastery??
Well, these combination also contains F, W, A & E.
Ok..how abt this..each aspect, being I or II, will have a dominant Element. If u combine aspect I dominant with aspect II dominant to get a balance, eg. aspect I dominant element is W, then aspect II dominant element F, will u get something special?
O...and also, eg. Aspect I-Radiance (+F) match with Aspect II-Salt (-W) will that gives u the specials also? Since + & - will b balance, n F & W also balanced out each others...

Hope some u guys can try it out...Im sure i cant try it out cos I still cant get pass Part 4 of The Shroud...:o
N oso the fact that I cant play that often...:(

Hopefully can see some results here. :)

[Emmaa]

Dagger

Composition
Tier 1: Negative, Escalation, Ethereal
Tier 2: Positive, Escalation, Ethereal
Tier 3: Positive, Escalation, Ethereal + Negative, Escalation, Ethereal

+5 Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Dagger of Concordant Opposition (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x299/gendengar/asura2.jpg)

Great Item to free up some equipment spots.

[Raidon]

DUST II FAILED ,

tier one , materal opposition negative.
tier two , material dominion earth.
tier three, Ethereal oppositon earth / ethereal opposition negative (combined shard with dust)

No effect displayed or observed , investigating now. screenshots soon

Btw Earth was dominant over negative as suspected

[Raidon]

http://stormlords.net/crafting/images/earth_shard.jpg


http://stormlords.net/crafting/images/neg_shard.jpg


http://stormlords.net/crafting/images/shard_of_dust.jpg


http://stormlords.net/crafting/images/dustII.jpg

[Jefro]

Thats an example how gems and essences have to be the same :(

I wanted to go all negative on one of my items but not sure if that has to be the same as well to recieve the teir 3 bonus.

[Raidon]

Thats an example how gems and essences have to be the same :(

I wanted to go all negative on one of my items but not sure if that has to be the same as well to recieve the teir 3 bonus.

Well as far as i know ,
the gems/essences have been different on several successful upgrades.

Obviously there is something missing here...
tried and failed on bolas II , ok can understand now in hindsight...
but failing again on dust II - shouldn't it be a straight add dust to the dust?

[Inspire]

Gems and Essences do NOT have to be the same, this has been proven with other 3rd tier(Alter of Devestation) upgrades. It just means I lost 24 large ingredients on another broken longsword :( *sigh*

[Borror0]

Obviously there is something missing here...

Hopefuly it's only the same noob that forgot to remove horns that was in charge of coding Dust II. ;)

[Zaodon]

I think its clear that Dust II should have worked, and that there is a bug.

Please bug report it and send a PM to Eldarin asap.

[MysticTheurge]

send a PM to Eldarin asap.

Did that this morning. With a link to the post.

[mudfud]

I think its clear that Dust II should have worked, and that there is a bug.

Please bug report it and send a PM to Eldarin asap.

Or maybe Dust II is considered a special upgrade and requires something different for tier 3

[Zaodon]

Or maybe Dust II is considered a special upgrade and requires something different for tier 3

Nope, its not special. Its bugged.

[mudfud]

Nope, its not special. Its bugged.

Personally I don't believe something is bugged till a dev says it is not working as planned. And since they never do that....
Still, could be something else needed for dust II. Don't rule that out until a dev confirms it. Sure they in this thread quite a few times over the day.

[Eladrin]

I'll have Piloto take a look at it today, I believe there's nothing "especially different" about Dust II.

[Venar]

Can someone crunch numbers or test the Steam 2 % of effect?
I mean, Mineral and Radiance, right now, are definitly the best weapons.
But if the 2D8 + 8 from Steam work above 15% of the time, then it could be a solid option with none-critical built characters.
Of course, the 4D6 and blind from radiance is solid for a Kopesh barb that critics 25% of attacks. But 2D8 + 8 can be nice if it works frequently, specially on a weapon with low crit range, like a Maul or Morninstar.

So, how often does the untype damage work on Steam 2? 1 attack out of 3? 4? 8? 10? 100?

I'm building an everyday weapon, and i like Ice over Fire and Acid.


Thanks.

[Inspire]

I'll have Piloto take a look at it today, I believe there's nothing "especially different" about Dust II.

Thats what I thought too, but then I crafted it and SUPRISE! heh

[Yori_Firebeard]

Yes, but acid burst and blast won't work since devils have acid resist 10. So it's actually not 10-15 free damage. Its about 1-5.

I will take 600 damage in 75 hits over 1-5 extra damage anyday.

I have a lightning II bow, it goes off more then once per 100 shots.


I would like to point out that this is not the last mod to come out at least as far as we know and historically acid burst has been more effective than lightning burst and I do not see a change coming in this regard. If you only plan on running quests against these devils the rest of the time you play this game your choice makes sense. Lets face it with current inventory restrictions ie. not enough bag or bank slots you will wish you had a transmuter over your once in 75 (at best) whole shot. A holy acid burst transmuter is a better utility weapon hands down and will most likely will remain that way until the game goes offline. Now if someone comes up with a holy shocking burst transmuter you let me know and then we will really have something to talk about.

[Zaodon]

Personally I don't believe something is bugged till a dev says it is not working as planned. And since they never do that.....


I'll have Piloto take a look at it today, I believe there's nothing "especially different" about Dust II.

You were saying?
:)

[mudfud]

You were saying?
:)

I still stick to what I said.
He neither confirmed or denied there was anything wrong :p He answered the question in what is commonly known as Turbine talk.

But the real question should be is this.
When we all get those silly little bugs that have to do with weapons/items, and turbine doesn't fix them on created/generated loot, will they make an exception for this. :confused:
Or
Will whomever creates this item be on the end of the shortbus.

[Borror0]

He answered the question in what is commonly known as Turbine talk.

He'll do like the red and purple named's list of immunities that was promsied by Samera a long time ago. "I'll go ask and I'll come back to you guys with it..."

I'm still waiting.

[Mad_Bombardier]

I'll have Piloto take a look at it today, I believe there's nothing "especially different" about Dust II.While we're on the topic, any word on the previous Earth II upgrade on an accessory?

[Zaodon]

I still stick to what I said.
He neither confirmed or denied there was anything wrong :p He answered the question in what is commonly known as Turbine talk.


Um, did you read what I read? I'm pretty sure that: "I believe there's nothing "especially different" about Dust II." is pretty much a confirmation that Dust II should be the same as all the other Quasi-Upgrades, but he wants to check just to be sure.

I guess people will hear what they want to hear, regardless of what's said...

[binnsr]

Um, did you read what I read? I'm pretty sure that: "I believe there's nothing "especially different" about Dust II." is pretty much a confirmation that Dust II should be the same as all the other Quasi-Upgrades, but he wants to check just to be sure.

I guess people will hear what they want to hear, regardless of what's said...

I hear NU-TING!!!

/covers ears and shouts 'LALALALALALALALALALALALALALA'

[mudfud]

If the "words" were not in quotes it would have a more direct meaning, but since they "were" in quotes that could still be loosely interpreted.

And yeah, I believe also that people read/hear what they want to.
Not trying to cause you grief because I don't believe, that is just my opinion. If it bothers you so much, simply hit ignore and not see my posts.
But, you also failed to quote my other text, about turbine's past of not "fixing" items already done. Want to take a bet if people who created this item will be out of 24 large ingredients and a few days of grinding? :o

[Zaodon]

But, you also failed to quote my other text, about turbine's past of not "fixing" items already done. Want to take a bet if people who created this item will be out of 24 large ingredients and a few days of grinding? :o


I find it counterproductive in life to have the attitude that things will not change for the positive. That kind of thinking leads to self-fullfilling prophecy.

Also, confirming a bug (even without fixing it) has value.

[binnsr]

will be out of 24 large ingredients and a few days of grinding? :o

Few days!!!??!?!?:eek:
I have 3 large ingredients.. total.. and a high depleted cell .. and 2 bloody large horns .. and 3 times the chest didn't have a single ingredient for me.. gonna take a lot more than a few days on this end :D

[mudfud]

I think Borror0 said it best with:



He'll do like the red and purple named's list of immunities that was promsied by Samera a long time ago. "I'll go ask and I'll come back to you guys with it..."

I'm still waiting.

And let the waiting continue..
But seriously, did the thread really need to be de-railed with so many non stone of change - eldritch rituals cookbook offtopic chat?
And yes, I know I am part of it, but shame on the others for being better and knowing better.

[Venar]

Back on topic:
More Steam 2 details, please.

[ChildrenofBodom]

I would like to point out that this is not the last mod to come out at least as far as we know and historically acid burst has been more effective than lightning burst and I do not see a change coming in this regard. If you only plan on running quests against these devils the rest of the time you play this game your choice makes sense. Lets face it with current inventory restrictions ie. not enough bag or bank slots you will wish you had a transmuter over your once in 75 (at best) whole shot. A holy acid burst transmuter is a better utility weapon hands down and will most likely will remain that way until the game goes offline. Now if someone comes up with a holy shocking burst transmuter you let me know and then we will really have something to talk about.

Last time I checked You can make more then one weapon. It's just which one you want first. Which would be Lightning II in most cases. Then you can make w/e you will need for your next mod.

Guess ya didn't think of that. :rolleyes:

[Ilandrya]

I hear NU-TING!!!

/covers ears and shouts 'LALALALALALALALALALALALALALA'


http://i29.tinypic.com/2v9afr7.jpg

Is it possible dust II is bugged in the same way earthgrab guard is and the effect is there just not the description?

[Inspire]

Is it possible dust II is bugged in the same way earthgrab guard is and the effect is there just not the description?

Ive created what was supposed to be Dust II, and have been working in both PvP and various quests to see if it was a hidden effect, and i can say im 99.9% positive that either the effect has a less than 1% chance to work (because i havent seen it go of in any shape or form) or that it is infact bugged (to my knowledge) and there is no effect, even in the name "Supreme Tyrant Greensteel Longsword" is does not say "of Dust" at the suffix, unlike the 3rd tier triple aspect of earth items, which have that same suffix "of Earth". As for the way i upgraded it i see no flaw in the 1st or 2nd tier, or in the way I imbued the final supreme shard. Im very much open to someone than a keener eye than myself or any conventional ideas on why this didnt work.

[Ilandrya]

For the Devs:

I have a report that the lesser guard/minor guard/guard were stacking when they were the same type of guard, and that this was supposed to have been fixed as of 3/10, but have not received confimation from the player who stated this that it was indeed fixed as of 3/10. Are these stacking the way they are supposed to now (not with regard to the focus enchantment special guards but just the standard, fire guard, good guard, etc.) and if not, do we have an eta on when they will be fixed?

Has "earthgrab guard" been fixed to display the description yet? If not, do we have an eta on this?

Do we have an eta on the regeneration bug or has this been fixed so that switching maps no longer cancels the regen effect requiring a reequip of the item?

Is regen not supposed to work on a wf who receives less than 100% of incoming heals, or is this a bug? If the latter, eta on fix?

Was "Balance of Land and Sky" balance competence bonus changed from +10 to +11 as of 6.1 or is there a bug? If the former, was it retroactive, and if not, will there be a way to fix this later at the stone of change as with wis 4 from existential stalemate on an accessory?

Will a change be made to the descriptions of three and four focus enchantment effects so that they display the chance, damage die, stacking etc so that people have a better understanding of how these will work without having to rely on user word of mouth/testing? If they aren't hidden effects, and they are not common items, imho the descriptions should be more inclusive of what these do/how they work.



For the Players:

I know the base die on green steel weapons is greater than that of standard weapons. Has anyone looked into or is aware of:

a) any changes to the base critical range on a green steel weapon vs. non green steel
b) any change to the critical multiplier on a green steel weapon vs. non green steel

Anyone figured out the reason why some items get titles of "Lieutenant", "Great Commander" etc. while others do not?



Things I'm still curious about:

I'm still curious about four focus pures like pos/pos/pos/pos. I think that if one does not work, it would be a safe bet that none of the pures will result in anything different than the triple focus pures.

BoLaS or Tempered with Existential Stalemate. To me, that still seems a plausable thing to result in BoLaS II or Tempered II... somehow I have trouble with the concept that elemental mastery is both "BoLaS II" AND "Tempered II" rather than just being a special effect resulting from the combination of four elements.

Other combinations of all four elements such as Ooze/Smoke for example, also creating elemental mastery. Again, if one such combination fails, I expect them all to do so. It may be that only BoLaS and Tempered create the stability/balance necessary for the formation of elemental mastery, but I could see that the addition of things like Ooze/Smoke would provide people more variables in getting some kind of four focus enchantment without necessarily having to repeat the focuses they used at the first two altars... giving them a bit more wiggle room as it were.

If I ever get enough ingredients to test any of these out I will because I am curious... yes we know... curiosity killed the cat... but it's a chance I'm willing to take. = )

[Ikuryo]

I am also wondering if anyone ever tried to figure out why some items get the Great Commander label and some do not. When I was making my E/+ bow I looked at the other mineral weapons made up until that point and found that they had gone +/E to get Holy, the weapons were lacking the Great Commander label and were just called +5 Acid Burst (weapon type). I was a bit surprised when I made my E/+ and found that it ended up with the Great Commander label. I'm wondering if there is a preferred order to the upgrades that will give us something better for the end combine.

I know Willphase had an archive of the various items and weapons made to date that could be checked. It does look like most of the tier 3 upgrades did end up with the Supreme tyrant label though.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

DDO Wiki has been updated with all known Tier 3 (Devastation Altar) "Special" Bonuses.
(http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Altar_of_Devastation_-_Manufactured_Ingredient_Recipes)
I think I am missing some of the Devastation Altar known basic upgrade effects, if anyone can confirm things that are missing or listed as unconfirmed, that would be a great help!

[Aribel]

Will work on posting a screenshot. Did radiance II on goggles today. End results were +45 hit points, +4 dex skills, +2 con skills, and radiance guard which gives 4d6 light damage and blindness chance to anything that hits me.

[Pecky]

Lightning II is way out of balance with every other tier 3 special. Hopefully the devs realize this.

[nbhs275]

Lightning II is way out of balance with every other tier 3 special. Hopefully the devs realize this.


ok, thats your oppinion, now lets hear an actual arguement.

Mineral give transmuting, which alone on a +5 weapon is great.

Radiance does light damage and blinding on crits, which is awesome.

Most of the 2 element weapons get a great finish, because of the time it takes to make them. I have so far made about 8 greensteel items up to teir 2, and dont even have the 24 ingredients i will need to finish a teir 3.

[Syrin]

DDO Wiki has been updated with all known Tier 3 (Devastation Altar) "Special" Bonuses.
(http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Altar_of_Devastation_-_Manufactured_Ingredient_Recipes)
I think I am missing some of the Devastation Altar known basic upgrade effects, if anyone can confirm things that are missing or listed as unconfirmed, that would be a great help!

Thank you. Maybe you could add the known % chance for some of the effects to go off. That is very useful info.

[Raidon]

Lightning II is way out of balance with every other tier 3 special. Hopefully the devs realize this.

I'm sorry i just dont see it , 1-2% proc of 600 damage = 6-9 extra shock damage a hit.

even elemental mastery does 1d6-4d6 75% of the time = around 18 damage a hit.

Steam hits often for 2d8+8 extra damage, and salt does around 20 irresistable damage a hit on average.

ALL tier three bonus enchantments are good, especially when u look at the weapon / accessory IN TOTAL.

The best thing with crafting is that you can make something that actually fits in with your character, and their other gear :)

P.S the proper translation for Eladrins comment re: dust II is - it should have worked i am investigating it.

[Zaodon]

P.S the proper translation for Eladrins comment re: dust II is - it should have worked i am investigating it.

Exactly.
It boggles my mind how people could possibly read that any other way...

[Naso24]

I have a suggestion for http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pLaIqDL_IzJRx5CcCEpCaYg&gid=8 and the other websites tracking (and a request for all the weapon builders).

1) Add a column to the right of the table listing the proc rate.

2) Test the weapons and items for 1000 hits. Provide the results based on (% chance, % on crit).

3) For items that have a lasting effect, record or approximate the duration.

If anybody needs a character to beat on in the taverns on Ghallanda, I'd be happy to volunteer. Many thanks to the pioneers in building and the people who put these excellent archives together.

[LeLoric]

Sorry to be slightly off topic but dont think this was cleared up earlier.

Pit Fiend acid resist appears to be around 20.

On a regular acid fog with my light/acid specced wiz with a sup pot item for the fog i get numbers avg of about 15-20.

On a crit fog I get about 80 my crit multiplier is at 2x. So 80/2 should be 40 on a regular but getting 20 leads me to a resist of 20.

Also in response to the multiple weapn dmg on athe same item each effect is treated seperately even the regular d6 and the d10's of a burst effect of any weapon have always been treated seperately. Basically if your floating dmg reads as base+x+y each individual add on is treated seperately.

[gpk]

Slightly OT, but does anyone else suspect blindness on radiance2 crits will be given a save?

[Agarwaen]

Slightly OT, but does anyone else suspect blindness on radiance2 crits will be given a save?

Just my worthless two cents, but my guess is not in the next mod. The reason I think not is because the weekly Dev notes lists a change to Sirocco (going from blind on hit to blind on crit) but doesn't mention a save. If Sirocco isn't getting a saving throw nerf, it seems likely that Radiance II won't either. A couple of my guildies, however, think both Lightning and Radiance are going to be nerfed.

All I know is if the only item that has some sweet Roguey goodness is the one to get nerfed, I will be one unhappy camper. If the devs make any changes to the raid loot, I'm hoping it will be to make the weenie effects like concordant opposition a bit better and to add more crafting options. It wouldn't take too many loot nerfs before we would hear our footsteps echo through the shroud like we currently do over in the abbot raid.

[oronisi]

I'm sorry i just dont see it , 1-2% proc of 600 damage = 6-9 extra shock damage a hit.

even elemental mastery does 1d6-4d6 75% of the time = around 18 damage a hit.

Steam hits often for 2d8+8 extra damage, and salt does around 20 irresistable damage a hit on average.

ALL tier three bonus enchantments are good, especially when u look at the weapon / accessory IN TOTAL.

The best thing with crafting is that you can make something that actually fits in with your character, and their other gear :)

P.S the proper translation for Eladrins comment re: dust II is - it should have worked i am investigating it.


Please for everyone whining about balance, notice a few things.

1) Raidon's post...it's true.
2) You can craft whatever you want. If you think lightning II is the most powerful, THEN CRAFT ONE!
3) All the items are situational. If all you care about is 1 quest (most likely the shroud) then craft an item you think would perform best in the shroud.

So please stop whining! All the items have a purpose. If you aren't iterested in one of the effects, move on. That's the beauty of crafting, there will always be something for everyone. Everything will not be custom built for your character.

[Aesop]

Please for everyone whining about balance, notice a few things.

1) Raidon's post...it's true.
2) You can craft whatever you want. If you think lightning II is the most powerful, THEN CRAFT ONE!
3) All the items are situational. If all you care about is 1 quest (most likely the shroud) then craft an item you think would perform best in the shroud.

So please stop whining! All the items have a purpose. If you aren't iterested in one of the effects, move on. That's the beauty of crafting, there will always be something for everyone. Everything will not be custom built for your character.



Oddly enough the item I want to make wouldn't necessarily be best for the shroud... as I'm going for Radiance and the Flaming aspects really wouldn't work there... but the blindness might and for a rogue that's just awesome :)

I was vaguely considering a Mineral run ... but I'll save that for when my Tempest gets there

Aesop

[Rafal]

I would like to create a transmuting khopesh but I think good burst could be better then acid burst. What do you think about going EDM +DM (EDM +DM) instead of +DM EDM (EDM +DM) like here?


http://will.phase.net/ddo/items/tier%203/supremetyrantmineralkhopesh.jpg

Do you think it could give more universal damage then acid burst? Would it even work or I am missing something from a crafting process? Any other ideas to make a Good Burst without acid but with something more useful?

[Glenalth]

I would like to create a transmuting khopesh but I think good burst could be better then acid burst. What do you think about going EDM +DM (EDM +DM) instead of +DM EDM (EDM +DM) like here?

Do you think it could give more universal damage then acid burst? Would it even work or I am missing something from a crafting process? Any other ideas to make a Good Burst without acid but with something more useful?

You would lose Holy and have Acid instead. So you would be giving up d6 on every hit (vs evil anyway) for the potential of a couple more points of damage on each crit.

[Zaodon]

You would lose Holy and have Acid instead. So you would be giving up d6 on every hit (vs evil anyway) for the potential of a couple more points of damage on each crit.

Good Burst = 1d6/hit on non-good targets, +3d6 for x2 Multiplier, +4d6 for x3, +5d6 for x4 on crit.
Acid Burst = 1d6/hit acid, +1d10 for x2 Multiplier, +2d10 for x3, +3d10 for x4 on crit

Good.....Acid
3-18 vs 1-10 : avg 10.5 vs avg 5.5
4-24 vs 2-20 : avg 14 vs avg 11
5-30 vs 3-30 : avg 17.5 vs avg 16.5

Acid+Good = 2d6 all the time (not counting things that are acid resistant)
Holy+Acid = 3d6 (evil) or 1d6 (non-evil) (not counting things that are acid resistant)

Note: more monsters have some amount of Acid Resist than have Immunity to Good damage.

[Rafal]

Well, holy does 2d6 to evil all the time. Good burst for khopesh gives 1d6 on a normal hit and extra 4d6 on crit (with 15-20 range) to all non good (means to more creatures then holy). Do you think holy is still worth more then this?

[nbhs275]

Acid Burst = 1d6/hit acid, +1d10 for x2 Multiplier, +2d10 for x3, +3d10 for x4 on crit
Good Burst = 1d6/hit on non-good targets, +3d6 for x2 Multiplier, +4d6 for x3, +5d6 for x4 on crit.

3-18 vs 1-10 : avg 9.5 vs avg 5
4-24 vs 2-20 : avg 14 vs avg 11
5-30 vs 3-30 : avg 16.5 vs avg 16.5

Holy+Acid = 3d6 (evil) or 1d6 (non-evil) (not counting things that are acid resistant)
Acid+Good = 2d6 all the time (not counting things that are acid resistant)

the average of the x4 crits is wrong, Add the average of all the dice together, and it will always be accurate. 3.5x5=16.5, 5.5x3=15.5.

the pure good burst is better damage on average because of more dice. just like 4d6 is better then 3d8, even though they have the same max.

Though yea, holy is going to give even out the two, against evil mobs atleast....though acid resistance is pretty prevelent throughout the current content.

[Zaodon]

the average of the x4 crits is wrong, Add the average of all the dice together, and it will always be accurate. 3.5x5=16.5, 5.5x3=15.5.

the pure good burst is better damage on average because of more dice. just like 4d6 is better then 3d8, even though they have the same max.

Though yea, holy is going to give even out the two, against evil mobs atleast....though acid resistance is pretty prevelent throughout the current content.

I'm pretty sure 5.5 x 3 = 16.5.
:)

edit: but I did find other math errors. Fixed.

[Rafal]

edit: but I did find other math errors. Fixed.

I think your calculations are a bit generic. What about assuming it's a khopesh (x3 on crit) and with a feat to make a crit range 17-20? Wouldn't it make good burst looking a bit better?

[Zaodon]

I think your calculations are a bit generic. What about assuming it's a khopesh (x3 on crit) and with a feat to make a crit range 17-20? Wouldn't it make good burst looking a bit better?

Actually, if you look at my numbers, Good Burst is best at x2 (+5 damage on avg), decent at x3 (+3 damage on avg) and minorly better at x4 (+1 damage on avg).

Plus, its better because fewer things in the game have Immunity to Good than have Acid Resist.

[Vienemen]

Trying to figure out how to get exceptional Int +1 and +2 with concordant opposition...

Pos/eth/esc tier 1 gives +6 cha

neg/eth/esc tier 2 gives +1 exceptional Int and existential stalemate 1 (+6 wis, +10 haggle and diplo)

dual shard Neg+Pos eth/esc tier 3 would have Pos dominate and give me +2 exceptional cha instead of Int like I want.

Are wizards screwed getting exceptional int +3 and a dual shard concordant opposition on a weapon?

[MysticTheurge]

Are wizards screwed getting exceptional int +3 and a dual shard concordant opposition on a weapon?

Unless there's a way to swap the "dominant focus" that we haven't figured out yet.

[Vienemen]

Bummer...not even sure if there is anything else useful to pick from if thats the case for a wiz.

Edit: actually I cant get any dual shard combo on my weapon and keep the +2 exceptional int...how did wizards get the short end of the stick here?

[Desteria]

Unless there's a way to swap the "dominant focus" that we haven't figured out yet.

I had a thought on this that i'm purty shure i havent sene any oen try yet, I will try it my self IF/when i make soemthign i dont care wich is dominet on, liek say the +4 ac one ...
Anyway i was thinking durign the 2 shard combine try addign a gem of oppition to it to reverse the dominence, there is a lot of logic to this and woudl open up versitility to the craftign system that is lackign a bit atm for the dule combos, I knwo i have some guys that willbe choseing to NOT properly upgrade soem items because the cost of 12 extra large combined with getitng a elmet that i don't really want + the some what underwelming nature, (imo i perfer perm effects to very rare procs or mostly lame clickys, I wanted tier 2 or 3 air to give Featherfallign dang it), of tier 3 powers, take away the getting the wrong element and I'll do every tier 3 as a dule shard.

[Vienemen]

nm, I can just use fire instead of negative for exceptional Int...<doh>

Could add 20&#37; blur I guess to the weapon. Water+Fire+(Fire+Air) Should give me +6 wis, +1 exceptional int (tempered I), +2 exceptional int and smoke II as long as I dont need smoke I to start with.

[Zaodon]

nm, I can just use fire instead of negative for exceptional Int...<doh>

Could add 20% blur I guess to the weapon. Water+Fire+(Fire+Air) Should give me +6 wis, +1 exceptional int (tempered I), +2 exceptional int and smoke II as long as I dont need smoke I to start with.

You will not get Smoke II.

You can only get Smoke II if your weapon has Smoke I.

[MysticTheurge]

You can only get Smoke II if your weapon has Smoke I.

Has anyone actually shown this to be true yet?

[Vienemen]

(If it proves true) looks like it has to be Air+Fire(smoke I)+(Fire+Air) for smoke II and exceptional Int 1 and 2...displacement clickies and 20&#37; blur is only option for wizzy weapons...better than nothing dual shard I guess. I assume that concealment and the ones from blur or displacement spells wont stack either...even though one should be physical concealment and the others from spells.

[MysticTheurge]

(If it proves true) looks like it has to be Air+Fire(smoke I)+(Fire+Air) for smoke II and exceptional Int 1 and 2...displacement clickies and 20% blur is only option for wizzy weapons...better than nothing dual shard I guess. I assume that concealment and the ones from blur or displacement spells wont stack either...even though one should be physical concealment and the others from spells.

I believe Fire is also primary over either of the energies. So you can make an Ash or Radiance weapon too.

[Zaodon]

Has anyone actually shown this to be true yet?

Yes. A dual-shard BoLaS was attempted to be added to a weapon with BoLaS, and it failed.
Therefore, adding a dual-shard to the wrong base item will not work.
Smoke II can only be added to Smoke I.
Ash II can only be added to Ash I.
etc.
Only Tempered+BoLas are "special" and have a unique upgrade path that no other ugrades have (confirmed by Eldarin).

[MysticTheurge]

Yes. A dual-shard BoLaS was attempted to be added to a weapon with BoLaS, and it failed.
Therefore, adding a dual-shard to the wrong base item will not work.

This doesn't actually do it for me.

BoLaS and Tempered as different. You have to add BoLaS to Tempered or vice versa to get any tier III bonus from them.

This doesn't prove that it's true for everything else. (For the record, I think it probably is, but it hasn't actually been tested yet.)

[gpk]

Just my worthless two cents, but my guess is not in the next mod. The reason I think not is because the weekly Dev notes lists a change to Sirocco (going from blind on hit to blind on crit) but doesn't mention a save. If Sirocco isn't getting a saving throw nerf, it seems likely that Radiance II won't either. A couple of my guildies, however, think both Lightning and Radiance are going to be nerfed.

All I know is if the only item that has some sweet Roguey goodness is the one to get nerfed, I will be one unhappy camper. If the devs make any changes to the raid loot, I'm hoping it will be to make the weenie effects like concordant opposition a bit better and to add more crafting options. It wouldn't take too many loot nerfs before we would hear our footsteps echo through the shroud like we currently do over in the abbot raid.

Ya I suspect a nerf will come to Radiance2 as well, but to be honest I can't really see how the addition of a balanced save vs blind is necessarily a bad thing.
I can see why auto-sneaks and 50&#37; mob miss on a crit can be very overpowering.

[Zaodon]

This doesn't actually do it for me.
BoLaS and Tempered as different. You have to add BoLaS to Tempered or vice versa to get any tier III bonus from them.
This doesn't prove that it's true for everything else. (For the record, I think it probably is, but it hasn't actually been tested yet.)

It proves it because of the statements from Eldarin. He specifically said that the "special" upgrades had a different path (singular "path" not "paths") than all (not some, all) of the para and quasi upgrades.

That proves:
a. There is one and only one path to the tier 3 upgrade
b. all para/quasi upgrades follow one paradigm
c. special upgrades have a slightly different, but similar, paradigm

Allowing Ash II, for example, onto Smoke I would violate the information he said, which would either make him wrong or a liar.

[CaseStringer]

I don't know where all the speculation about nerfing the craftable raid loot started...but just because WDA mentioned something about a change to Sirocco (silly IMO btw), doesn't lead to them nerfing Shroud crafted items. I sincerly hope that this is not the case. Will consider it another groundless rumor...

[MysticTheurge]

That proves:
a. There is one and only one path to the tier 3 upgrade

That is one way you could interpret what he said.

If you put a lot of weight on the fact that he said path, singular.

[Shima-ra]

There is only one crafted randiance weapon yet and everyone is talking of nerf.
The average mob has 500hp, making that sneak attack essential if you are a rogue.
You still only blind on crit, just like my w/p rapier peaks on crits, only not as good.

[Alavatar]

Can you only put one upgrade of each tier on an item?

For instance, can someone put 3 tier 1 upgrades on an item instead of going tier 1 -> tier 2 -> tier 3?

[Cashiry]

Each Adamantine Ritual is only uping the Durability by 5 after the 1st one done on an item... The benifeit is showing what you have received from all rituals combined. How many rituals that can be done is unknown..

Cambo Used your layout for this... so its easy for ya to Cut/Paste to the approriate post


Adamantine Ritual I:
Materials: 10 Adamantine Ore, 10 Soul Gem: Essence of Earth, 1 Attuned Equippable Item (Items bound like raid items still need the binding/Attune Ritual before upgrading here.
Benefit: This item has been tempered by a Stone of Change using the Adamantine Ritual. It has +5 Hardness and +10 Durability.
Further Adamantine Rituals will increase this item's Durability. (But require greater amounts of Adamantine Ore and Soul Gems)

Adamantine Ritual II:
Materials: 15 Adamantine Ore, 20 Soul Gem: Essence of Earth, 1 Attuned Equippable Item w/Adamantine Ritual I
Benefit: This item has been tempered by a Stone of Change using the Adamantine Ritual. It has +5 Hardness and +15 Durability.
Further Adamantine Rituals will increase this item's Durability. (But require greater amounts of Adamantine Ore and Soul Gems)

Adamantine Ritual III:
Materials: 20 Adamantine Ore, 30 Soul Gem: Essence of Earth, 1 Attuned Equippable Item w/Adamantine Ritual I, II
Benefit: This item has been tempered by a Stone of Change using the Adamantine Ritual. It has +5 Hardness and +20 Durability.
Further Adamantine Rituals will increase this item's Durability. (But require greater amounts of Adamantine Ore and Soul Gems)

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Can you only put one upgrade of each tier on an item?

For instance, can someone put 3 tier 1 upgrades on an item instead of going tier 1 -> tier 2 -> tier 3?

Got this in a PM from Eladrin a while back, I'm sure he doesn't mind me quoting him now since we've pretty much worked out the upgrade paths.



Green Steel weapons and items can only be run through each altar once. If you add positive at tier three, for instance, it's done.


Garth

[maddmatt70]

Ya I suspect a nerf will come to Radiance2 as well, but to be honest I can't really see how the addition of a balanced save vs blind is necessarily a bad thing.
I can see why auto-sneaks and 50% mob miss on a crit can be very overpowering.

I feel that instead of nerfing a couple of the items they should increase the potency of the other items; specifically, the % chance of some of the items going off. These are much too low. For instance I have a slay living guard goggle which might not go off an entire quest. There are many weapons out there which only have 1%-2% activation rate which is much too low and quite frankly not very exciting.

[Alavatar]

Got this in a PM from Eladrin a while back, I'm sure he doesn't mind me quoting him now since we've pretty much worked out the upgrade paths.



Garth

Does that mean you can do a tier 1 upgrade at a subsequent alter for the same item? Or can you imbue a Shard of Great Power or Shard of Supreme Power with tier 1 essence/gem/focus?

Edit: I'm asking because it looks like I would rather put 3 different Tier 1 effects on an item rather then go through the Tier 1 - Tier 3 progression, thus forfeit the special abilities. (example: make an item with Greater Fire Resistance, Greater Acid Resistance, and Greater Cold Resistance)

[MysticTheurge]

Does that mean you can do a tier 1 upgrade at a subsequent alter for the same item? Or can you imbue a Shard of Great Power or Shard of Supreme Power with tier 1 essence/gem/focus?

Your item can have a Tier I power, a Tier II power and a Tier III power. Only one of each.

It can also have a Tier II bonus and a Tier III bonus. But again, at most, one of each. And some items won't have Tier III bonuses.

[Vesuvia]

Well for the most part the shroud stuff for a caster is quite lack luster. Not only are we not really needed but we really don't get much from it. Ok lets be honest yeah the extra sps are nice, the extra cha skills for a sorc using umd is nice, and I suppose you could sometimes not hold a potency weapon for a +9 cha/int weapon assuming you have a skiver or at least green blade to get your spell lore from, the +45 hps and possibly C.O. in the 1&#37; chance you get back sps. Those aren't that bad but to be honest the final "big upgrades" are kinda lame. I was kinda hoping that at least one of the upgrade paths would have given some better potency love or something fitting considering the caster upgrades (lores, etc) are completely worthless. Seriously who would EVER put like greater magnetism 6 on a weapon???? Um ok your in the shroud pretty sure you have a Superior Potency 6 by now. That's um 10% better to Magnetism already, and you get all other types for free! It would have been kinda nice to see an upgrade path to a superior potency 7 honestly.. I mean we can already get Greater 7's so would 10% made that big a difference...or something along those lines. Even doable on a robe (in later mods obviously) would be great since all robes etc are worthless as is also. Just my 2 cents.

[smithers]

Well for the most part the shroud stuff for a caster is quite lack luster. Not only are we not really needed but we really don't get much from it. Ok lets be honest yeah the extra sps are nice, the extra cha skills for a sorc using umd is nice, and I suppose you could sometimes not hold a potency weapon for a +9 cha/int weapon assuming you have a skiver or at least green blade to get your spell lore from, the +45 hps and possibly C.O. in the 1&#37; chance you get back sps. Those aren't that bad but to be honest the final "big upgrades" are kinda lame. I was kinda hoping that at least one of the upgrade paths would have given some better potency love or something fitting considering the caster upgrades (lores, etc) are completely worthless. Seriously who would EVER put like greater magnetism 6 on a weapon???? Um ok your in the shroud pretty sure you have a Superior Potency 6 by now. That's um 10% better to Magnetism already, and you get all other types for free! It would have been kinda nice to see an upgrade path to a superior potency 7 honestly.. I mean we can already get Greater 7's so would 10% made that big a difference...or something along those lines. Even doable on a robe (in later mods obviously) would be great since all robes etc are worthless as is also. Just my 2 cents.

Forget superior 7; You can easily find superior combustion 7, and that's all you can do with lvl 7.

Improved potency 8 or maybe greater glac 8; this is what I was hoping for when I first read up on crafting. At the beginning I was most excited about crafting something like this but alas it doesn't look like it's possibe. It's a shame too, since all those new spells are mostly ignored in actual play; I only see polar ray get used and even it is not really worth the SP without some boost behind it. For all the work that must have gone into designing the lvl 8 spells and the animations for them (some really nice work) it's just a shame. Crossing my fingers that one day soon there will be some new recipes added (hopefully ones that allow me to use these splintered horns coming out my ears)

Still holding out hope that there might be something in there we haven't yet discovered but chances growing slimmer by the day. I would love to see elemental mastery on a scepter, cause if there was going to be a recipe for potency that would fit the bill (but I don't expect anyone will take the risk unless we get a hint from Eladrin that there are avenues still unexplored.) Things are to a point now where a simple ("Yes, the basic patterns/recipes have been unearthed there is nothing fundamental that the community hasn't yet figured out" would be much much appreciated (or a hint, however vague, if this is not the case)

[UtherSRG]

Got my Ash II sceptre created, finally!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2117/2351537208_6343202c89_o.jpg

[Venar]

Nice Robyyn. Let us know how often it goes off.

[Spisey]

Very nice. Gratz! I am sitting here laughing on the timeliness of this post considering the complaints that there are no caster focused items...... Very nice Rogue or Wiz item!

[Mavnimo]

Very nice. Gratz! I am sitting here laughing on the timeliness of this post considering the complaints that there are no caster focused items...... Very nice Rogue or Wiz item!

I don't consider, a chance to proc enervation weapon, a nice wizard item. the reaver staff works much better, if thats what ur going for. a straight Negative or fire line will net the same +9 int. since negative doesn't dominate anything he is left with looking at just fire dominated combo's which limits his selection.

and overall this is pretty much melee dominated equipment. most of the guards benefit melee more, as do the on hit effects.

most casters look for ways of increasing damage of spells, difficulty checks of spells, spell penetration. I would have loved to see the tempered + bolas mix to have been spell mastery +1 to dc or +2 to dc of spells. even an elemental potency ?% increase to all spells that stacks.

[Angelus_dead]

I don't consider, a chance to proc enervation weapon, a nice wizard item. the reaver staff works much better, if thats what ur going for.
+9 intelligence or charisma in one hand is a Great wiz/sorc item. It wasn't a recent discovery, but it's a great thing and not an item category that melees get a comprable version. Compare it to the Dreamspitter or Staff of the Petitioner. Those raid-loots use up both your hand slots to give just +1 DC to one kind of spell (relative to the Napkin that everyone wears). With shroud scepters, casters can get +1 or +2 DCs to all spells in just one hand, leaving the other for superior potency.

But yeah, it's wrong to act like the benefits of this item were something new.

[Soul-Shaker]

+9 intelligence or charisma in one hand is a Great wiz/sorc item. It wasn't a recent discovery, but it's a great thing and not an item category that melees get a comprable version. Compare it to the Dreamspitter or Staff of the Petitioner. Those raid-loots use up both your hand slots to give just +1 DC to one kind of spell (relative to the Napkin that everyone wears). With shroud scepters, casters can get +1 or +2 DCs to all spells in just one hand, leaving the other for superior potency.

But yeah, it's wrong to act like the benefits of this item were something new.

yes, but mav is saying its kinda of a waste because dreamsplitter fires off on crit which for most casters are 20s or held targets. But the enervation effect on that item is based strictly on chance so even if you hit a held mob it wont go off each hit. The other thing he was mentioning is this is the item tier3 bonus that +9 int is forced onto for tier3 bonus due to the fact that negative is overriden by everything(T3 would be fires int exceptional +2). Other then the fact that its a +9 stat item, the stat items are restricted into a Tier3 bonus for dual shards because of dominance. Also the only real good bonuses on a weapon for casters is stats while fighters get many to choose from and tier3 bonus effects although restricted by dominance gives them more options to work with.

[lucid8]

well to be quite honest casters shouldn't have gotten as much as others for this mod. I think all of you know who have both casters and melee toons, that the melee needed a boost. So that being said would you rather they kept the crafting even and nerfed your caster, or just orientated the new loot towards melee? I am quite happy with the new crafting system, and the casters still have plenty to choose from HP's Sp's and +1 to +2 spell DC. the only thing they are missing is better augmentation for raw damage, which if you are fully speced for damage as a caster atm you very much well know that u don't need more at this time as far as game balance is concerned..

[Mavnimo]

Something I was just thinking about to switch dominance, tho it might be a bit extreme. Using pos/neg as an example. going +EE/-EE will give us the dual shard +EE/stalemate, making Positive the dominant focus. Maybe adding -EE to the dual shard will switch the dominance, or sometihng as simple as adding the negative focus to the dual shard. Just to make it fail safe where u wouldn't exactly lose any ingredients/shards I'd suggest having a set final path where u will be happy with either outcome.

I will try something like this when I build up another 36 larges because I plan on using them anyway
for the experiment I will be making a +DM, EDM, +DM/EDM(the holy acid burst acid blast transmuter) and will be making a second +DM to try it and switch dominance. if it fails i have a +DM, +DM weapon ill add the final shard to should it fail. If anyone is closer then I am please feel free to try it. currently have 14 larges so it will take me a little while to gather the rest.

[Mavnimo]

well to be quite honest casters shouldn't have gotten as much as others for this mod. I think all of you know who have both casters and melee toons, that the melee needed a boost. So that being said would you rather they kept the crafting even and nerfed your caster, or just orientated the new loot towards melee? I am quite happy with the new crafting system, and the casters still have plenty to choose from HP's Sp's and +1 to +2 spell DC. the only thing they are missing is better augmentation for raw damage, which if you are fully speced for damage as a caster atm you very much well know that u don't need more at this time as far as game balance is concerned..


People have said it before, this isn't ur typical mmo. balance is for pvp oriented mmo's. Everyone knows casters always get stronger switching from low lvl support roles to high lvl leading roles. Who do u think closed the gateway in the market place? a fighter? :-)

[Tanka]

People have said it before, this isn't ur typical mmo. balance is for pvp oriented mmo's. Everyone knows casters always get stronger switching from low lvl support roles to high lvl leading roles. Who do u think closed the gateway in the market place? a fighter? :-)
Kargon's facebash, obviously.

[Zaodon]

Incineration Guard

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a289/snapless/ddo/screen/supremecloakfire.jpg

[Alexander_Illusioni]

I think casters made out good in this crafting. I made a +6 con, +6 wisdom (three more on my will saves), +3 exceptional int bonus (+1 or +2 for all my DC's plus added spell points) that I carry all the time (no +6 int as the nakin is a must at this point in time IMO). Combine that with goggles that provide wizard VI (yes not quite as good as skiver) and another 150 spell points, some skill points in either concentration or UMD and I would say casters have made out very well. The stat increases for melees IMO are not at all as useful. Put +3 exceptional strength bonus on a weapon and you can get an additional +1 or +2 damage and to hit, but sacrifice holding a decent weapon for damage. So the stat items help wizards clerics and bards, while the damage items help melees. And characters that do both can swich between weapons. IMO everyone wins with the crafting, and I play both. Tier three bonuses, with the exception of concordant opposition and the +5 protect, heavy fort item, favor the melees, but most of the loot in this game does as well. Anyway no crying here, with a +3 exceptional int item, and I am looking forward to what may be added in future Mods for crafting.:):):)

[Mavnimo]

It's not that casters don't have anything to make its the lack of "bonus effects" for casters. A fighter can make a weapon that does damage and as a bonus he gets more damage. A caster makes a weapon to help his spells/sp and as a bonus he gets nothing or something he will likely never get to use. Like the +9 charisma scepter all positive with greater disruption. When will I use greater disruption? on this particualr combo whats the harm in adding one of the Improved Extend I effects already in game or +1 to a spell focus as a bonus.

[Borror0]

Well, Mavnimo, there is Concordant Opposition. It's only when you get hit!!

And, if there is a way to choose the dominant foucs, you can either put Int or Cha at third.

[Mavnimo]

Well, Mavnimo, there is Concordant Opposition. It's only when you get hit!!

And, if there is a way to choose the dominant foucs, you can either put Int or Cha at third.

Well, Borror0, I didn't say caster don't get any bonus effects. Concordant Oppostion is 1 out of 20/21 tier 3 weapon bonus effects, You could make an argument for Air guard, so thats 2 out of 20/21.

[Borror0]

Honestly, doesn't make me that sad. Means less grinding for my sorcerer.

In my opinion, most tier three effects are not worth 24 Shards when you can have one for 12.

[Alexander_Illusioni]

Honestly, doesn't make me that sad. Means less grinding for my sorcerer.

In my opinion, most tier three effects are not worth 24 Shards when you can have one for 12.

Agreed!:):)

I will get bored doing this raid, long before I have all the 3rd tier items I would like for all my characters, let alone getting the extra special 3rd tier bonus.

[maddmatt70]

It's not that casters don't have anything to make its the lack of "bonus effects" for casters. A fighter can make a weapon that does damage and as a bonus he gets more damage. A caster makes a weapon to help his spells/sp and as a bonus he gets nothing or something he will likely never get to use. Like the +9 charisma scepter all positive with greater disruption. When will I use greater disruption? on this particualr combo whats the harm in adding one of the Improved Extend I effects already in game or +1 to a spell focus as a bonus.

Mav, I have to say that I have been very unimpressed with the bonus damage effects other then radiance and mineral. In my opinion they might as well not exist for how rarely they go off.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Incineration Guard

Nice.

How much fire damage does this do on a successful proc?

Garth

[Shade]

I don't think the loot is incredible for either casters or melee I mean compared to some of the past raid loot we got

. I mean the sword of shadow in mod1 or madstone boots in mod4 - they were an incredible melee items, way better then any raidthing melee can get in mod5 or 6.. And the reaver napkin in mod4 or the powerdrain gloves in mod6 - awesome items in many ways even superior to the SP items we got now in mod6..

So yea overal the quality of the loot is down, but the selection is up.

And really I don't think casters should of gotten the best overall selection or most varied either considering overall the last few mods raid loot was far better for casters:
Mod 5 - Abbot.. Heavy caster raid which needs allot of casters to suceed and has awesome caster loot: Powerstore staff, Powerdrain gloves, nice combustion necklace.. Vs whats there for melee? Nothing really interesting.. A sword thats really situational and geared mainly for paladins only. Meh. And the littany of the dead ofcourse - but thats great for any class. Then all the other items were pretty subpar so who cares.. So casters win 3 to 1 there. (well won - past tenses considering that loot is pretty much unavailable now)
Mod4 - Reaver. Well semi balanced.. Got the napkin and dreamspitter for casters vs the madstoon boots and shield for melee. Then a few other mostly token use melee weps.. and the head of good fortune which works for anyone, but overall better for casters as they benefit from the saves and umd more.. Vs melee prefering the trinket slot for the bloodstone. So overall 2 to 2 there.
Mod3 - Casters raid again. Most groups will not even attempt it without some casters.. Best loots: Greenblade, Staff of arcane power and the torc.. All caster stuff. The other things that are decent are non-class specific: Jerky, Googles, Ring, etc. Nothing really straight melee geared aside from the chaosblade which again is very limited to aspecific class and alignmenet (generally chaotic fighters that like the khopesh) So 3 to nothing for casters on that one.

So yea melee deserve some better raid loot considering past results.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

Mod3 - Casters raid again. Most groups will not even attempt it without some casters.. Best loots: Greenblade, Staff of arcane power and the torc.. All caster stuff.

Ummmm... No. Do you even play a caster? The Torc isn't bad, but I have a battlecaster who is often in the thick of things and I only see it trigger about three times in a quest for 20-30 mana each time. It's alright in a pinch if you need the mana for one more haste, but it really isn't all that spectacular when compared with other raid loot (Pouch, Chaosblade). As for the Greenblade and the Staff, they are both flat out BAD. Melee's have FAR more good loot from the DQ than casters: The Glasses for TS, the Chaosblade, the Bracers (yes casters can use them but they are far more useful for a melee)...

You also mentioned the Abbot. Once again, the items you listed as "good" are really quite mediocre, except for the Litany of the Dead, which as you mentioned, can be used for anyone. The Staff simply doesn't do much for taking up two hands (relieving most casters of their SR weapon, or their damage weapon, or both). The gloves simply don't do a whole lot, and the most wizards have better necklaces and better combustion items (the only useful thing about the necklace is the clicky, which only allows a fast-casting sorc maybe 3 spells tops). For the melee's you have the only slashing banisher that drops, as well as sharing the Litany with everyone else.

Mod4 as you say is fairly balanced; wizards have the cloak, all casters get the dreamspitter, anyone can use the head, and fighters get the boots and shield.

So by NO means have fighters EVER gotten shafted in raid loot. Especially if you consider the dragon, in which there was literally no useful loot for casters. The Titan was reasonably balanced, casters get the gloves, fighters get the ring. Raid loot has always been reasonably well balanced between casters and fighters (and yes I play both).

Regarding your other point (that Shroud raid loot is somehow worse), just imagine you were back before Mod6. Someone tells you that you could get +3 stacking to ANY stat, or a greatsword whose DPS is higher than the SoS with only the first upgrade (granted, SoS might be slightly higher than a +5 Holy GSGS in the hand of a barbarian). Or you could upgrade this weapon with Acid, +4 AC, and transmuting and slicing. Or electric and get a small chance of a 600+ point lightning blast. Or, as a sorceror, you could get an item that singlehandedly gives you 600 sp. And those are just a few of the options. The raid loot in the Shroud is EASILY comparable to past loot, and depending on the effect, can be quite a bit better. A helm with 45 stacking hp, +5 prot, and heavy fort? No problem.

Anyhow, just my two coppers.

P.S. I think that Shroud raid loot as it is is reasonably well balanced as well. Fighters get way better third tier effects, but casters can benefit much more from +3 stacking to a stat and from the stacking hp and sp.

Master Kadish

[Vienemen]

It would have been nice to at least have one tier 3 bonus effect from dual shards on a weapon for casters. I dont consider &#37; on hit enervation or non stacking 20% concealment as making the cut.

Some would say hard to please, but I think most people here would consider 1 special effect for casters available on weapons as not being a very selfish request.

[ChildrenofBodom]

Ummmm... No. Do you even play a caster? The Torc isn't bad, but I have a battlecaster who is often in the thick of things and I only see it trigger about three times in a quest for 20-30 mana each time.

Where did he say the torc was bad...? He said it was one of the best items in the raid....

Not sure how you got "bad" out of that.

[Shade]

As for the Greenblade and the Staff, they are both flat out BAD.

Comon, I appreciate the arguement but thats a bit of a careless statement.

Because yes I do play melee and casters (sorc and barbarian specificly) and have almost all of the raid loots mentioned, so yea I kinda do know what im talking about.

Greenblade grants greater arcane lore. That makes my disintegrate do more damage, to me that is more then enough to make it an awesome item. I do not yet have the blue robe, as I prefer the black robe for its +2 evocation (yea i know disintegrate is transmutation, but more often then not im mixing in evocation spells while nuking with it anyways) and refuse to farm for months to get a skiver.

So to casters who a) didnt exploit black mausoleum back in the day, its an excellent raid item - and thats most casters. Vs what, the chaosblade? I know maybe 1 melee who likes that, out of hundreds - a good item for some is not an overall good melee raid loot due to its exotic and alignment restrictions.

The staff I never thought was that awesome either - but I just got it the other day and found out its better then most people think: few great uses:
Ray of enfeeblement - The staff versions is actaully stronger then the casted version! So if your gona debuff some mobs, its a great item, save your SP and deal more str dmg (1d6 +7 vs 1d6 +5) and since theres no save it will work just as well in most cases.
Orb of Invulnerability - Fast cast, again better then the spell version. Generaly limited use but can help allot in certain cases.
Bonus fireballs/cone of cold, etc.. Nothing great, but fun to use. Saves some sp where you need those spells but dont need them to deal much dmg (Inferno of the damned comes to mind)

Powerdrain Gloves - You say they don't do allot, yet I'd bet you do not even have them or have a good idea how they work so I can't accept any arguement on that. I have them and know that they can actually give more SP then the shroud item.

[MysticTheurge]

It would have been nice to at least have one tier 3 bonus effect from dual shards on a weapon for casters. I dont consider % on hit enervation or non stacking 20% concealment as making the cut.

Some would say hard to please, but I think most people here would consider 1 special effect for casters available on weapons as not being a very selfish request.

You can get Concordant Opposition on a weapon.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

Comon, I appreciate the arguement but thats a bit of a careless statement.

Because yes I do play melee and casters (sorc and barbarian specificly) and have almost all of the raid loots mentioned, so yea I kinda do know what im talking about.

Greenblade grants greater arcane lore. That makes my disintegrate do more damage, to me that is more then enough to make it an awesome item. I do not yet have the blue robe, as I prefer the black robe for its +2 evocation (yea i know disintegrate is transmutation, but more often then not im mixing in evocation spells while nuking with it anyways) and refuse to farm for months to get a skiver.

So to casters who a) didnt exploit black mausoleum back in the day, its an excellent raid item - and thats most casters. Vs what, the chaosblade? I know maybe 1 melee who likes that, out of hundreds - a good item for some is not an overall good melee raid loot due to its exotic and alignment restrictions.

The Greenblade gives an extra 9% chance to crit -- a potency item will grant far more damage, not in one burst, but over time. So I suppose the Greenblade is alright if you don't have a good potency weapon, but Superior Potency VI and even VII are no more difficult to get than a Greenblade. As far as the Chaosblade goes, the exotic restriction is not a big deal; most fighters have proficiency in Khopesh because they tend to do more damage. Many fighters can UMD the true chaos if they aren't chaotic (which many barbarians are). Even so the item is very nice against lawful creatures (like devils): +5 khopesh with 3d6 extra damage, but most importantly the lesser vampiricism is very nice. I have a friend with a strength based ranger that loves to dual-wield them--he gets about 6+ hp per second. Anyhow, that said, I do see your point--the Khopesh is not something that everyone can use. But my point is that the Greenblade is a second-rate item in most cases--the khopesh is generally more powerful.


The staff I never thought was that awesome either - but I just got it the other day and found out its better then most people think: few great uses:
Ray of enfeeblement - The staff versions is actaully stronger then the casted version! So if your gona debuff some mobs, its a great item, save your SP and deal more str dmg (1d6 +7 vs 1d6 +5) and since theres no save it will work just as well in most cases.
Orb of Invulnerability - Fast cast, again better then the spell version. Generaly limited use but can help allot in certain cases.
Bonus fireballs/cone of cold, etc.. Nothing great, but fun to use. Saves some sp where you need those spells but dont need them to deal much dmg (Inferno of the damned comes to mind)

Ray of Enfeeblement can be stopped by SR. So the only place it's really useful is for portals so they get hit by crit effects all the time. When I say the items are bad, I don't mean they are useless. I mean that their uses are so specific or so marginal that they really can't be compared with other raid loot. Yes the Orb of Invulnerability is fast-cast and most casters don't carry it. But there is a good reason that casters don't carry it... I can't think of a single specific place where it would be useful. The only situation it might be nice for is if there is a caster somewhere that you are having trouble killing and only casts spells level 4 and below and is hurting your party. I don't know of where that could happen unless you were trying to get it to occur. I have 2 Staffs of Arcane Power, and the only thing I ever use them for is the torches in Inferno. They are somewhat convenient in there, but again... the uses of the item are so specific that it really can't be compared to other decent raid loot.


Powerdrain Gloves - You say they don't do allot, yet I'd bet you do not even have them or have a good idea how they work so I can't accept any arguement on that. I have them and know that they can actually give more SP then the shroud item.

They regenerate SP for about a minute. They give 2d6 sp every tick (10 ticks at 1 every 6 seconds). With three charges of the ability, you get 3.5*2*10*3=210 spell points on average. So yes, they certainly are not bad, kind of like a better spell storing ring. But a shroud item will certainly give you more spell points: 200 guaranteed, another 50 if you are using just a magi item, and *2 if you are a sorceror for a total of 400 or 500 extra spellpoints beyond another item as a sorceror. Even the maximum you can get from the Power Drain ability is lower: 6*2*10*3=360 spell points (the chances of that are 1 in 48,873,677,980,689,257,489,322,752,273,774,603,865 ,660,850,176. If you are that lucky, go play in the lottery my friend!). I will confess that saying they "don't do a whole lot" was an exaggeration (I hadn't actually run the numbers). They are in fact quite decent, but the point remains--Raid Loot has never been overbalanced towards casters above melees.

Anyhow, I don't mean to sound arrogant or patronizing in any way, just completely disagree with saying that melees have been shafted in the past and "deserve more good loot than the casters for a change." In any case, this probably isn't particularly relevant to the topic of the thread, so I'll try not to hijack it any more. :):eek::D

Master Kadish

[Venar]

The loot i so-so?
Are you kidding me???
My ranger buddy just made Goggles of Wiz 6, poison immunity, fear immunity, haggle 10, wisdom 6. And that is just after TWO upgrades. He also ran the reaver over 60 times and nothing he got in 60 runs even come close to beeing that usefull.

As for caster getting the shaft... Guys, WIZ 6 on any item at tier ONE? Melee win tier 3, but casters win tier 1 easy.

[MysticTheurge]

The Greenblade gives an extra 9% chance to crit -- a potency item will grant far more damage, not in one burst, but over time. So I suppose the Greenblade is alright if you don't have a good potency weapon, but Superior Potency VI and even VII are no more difficult to get than a Greenblade.

You act as though they're mutually exclusive.

[Auran82]

The Greenblade gives an extra 9% chance to crit -- a potency item will grant far more damage, not in one burst, but over time. So I suppose the Greenblade is alright if you don't have a good potency weapon, but Superior Potency VI and even VII are no more difficult to get than a Greenblade.

My caster has 2 hands, what about yours? :D

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

You act as though they're mutually exclusive.


My caster has 2 hands, what about yours?

Of course they aren't mutually exclusive, and of course my caster has two hands. But I like to have a Shroud weapon in one of them to increase my DC's by 2 (helping damage spells also). And although it's certainly possible to switch weapon sets every time you cast a different type of spell, it's a real pain and I don't know of hardly anyone that is willing to do so, especially since it takes a decent bit of time if you don't have the quick draw feat. Each to his own though -- I personally never use the Greenblade I've got on my caster, since I don't find it does a whole lot for the amount of trouble it'd take to utilize without hindering other aspects of his effectiveness.

[Angelus_dead]

Of course they aren't mutually exclusive, and of course my caster has two hands. But I like to have a Shroud weapon in one of them to increase my DC's by 2 (helping damage spells also).
It is unfair, and silly, to complain about year-old raid loot because it takes a body slot better given to something that came out last month. Of course newer, higher level loot is usually better. That has no bearing on the question of whether the items given by a particular raid had a melee or caster bias when it was released.

PS. I hate contributing to a digression on this thread, and wish the Crafting forum was used more for these things.

[Spisey]

It is unfair, and silly, to complain about year-old raid loot because it takes a body slot better given to something that came out last month. Of course newer, higher level loot is usually better. That has no bearing on the question of whether the items given by a particular raid had a melee or caster bias when it was released.

PS. I hate contributing to a digression on this thread, and wish the Crafting forum was used more for these things.

Thank you! The dragon eye was a hot commodity at one time. No one even had potency type items yet for their new spells. Now we are tweaked beyond belief with the help of one or two raid items and collectible turn-ins..... Twas a much different world.


Not to mention the lack of AH to both make plat and try to desperately get the items that seem insufficient now. These items in the raid, regardless of personally focused needs / requirements, are very good at taking over several item spots that you now have full and could have a better use for if you had the room. All in all the 3rd tier non-singular bonuses may not be worth 24 ingredients, power shards and crystals but the devs finally experimented with a crafting system to work with and improve upon. Good enough for me. Now if they would just increase the drop rate for large ingredients and I would be getting somewhere....

[Soul-Shaker]

Steam II weapon info upgraded tested 1000 hits. Look at my item post for info.

[Shade]

.I like to have a Shroud weapon in one of them to increase my DC's by 2.... ..snip ... personally never use the Greenblade I've got on my caster, since I don't find it does a whole lot for the amount of trouble it'd take to utilize without hindering other aspects of his effectiveness.

Your opinions are all fine and good. But the arguement was about the bigger picture.
The bigger pictures shows that I know 2 fighters in my entire server that own and like the chaosblade - 1 has specificly built the character to ouse it. 2 of thousands i have grouped with. 0 barbarians, 0 rangers, 0 anything else. A GOOD overall melee raid weapon is one that MOST melee want to use, not some - ie the sword of shadow. Not anything else (well now greensteel weapons - which is good, we were getting tired of seeing every melee have the same sword)
The bigger picture shows that most casters do infact dual wield potentcy + lore item, not the expensive greensteel +2/3 for 1 DC - regardless the comparison was of previous mods loot, so including the current mods item doesn't make allot of sense.
The bigger pictures shows that most casters do indeed already have wizardry 6 so the shroud version doesn't matter in any real comparison. So power drain = 210 on average vs 150 MAX sp increase for wizard, or 300 for sorcerer.. A larger increase and infact better since its regens fast, has potential for more and save you from the rare occasion where you may find yourself drained of spellpoints (arcane ooze, dread wraith)

Thats what im looking at, not personally what I have and use and what I like, but what overall I see players using and like in terms of raidloot trends.

And we would have a very hard time hijacking a thread that has gotten offtopic so many times as this 3000 + post one has heh.

[Tallyn]

1000 swing test. average comes to 20&#37;= 1/5 hits. Also has nothing linked to crits if ppl have that question.

so 2d8+8 = 17 dmg average every 5 hits = 3.4 which is worse then elemental mastery :( and if lightning strike average is about 1/60-80 swings (so between 1-2%) then lightning strike averages to about 7-9 dmg per hit.

I would not go for this on a weapon unless they upgrade its chance per hit.




The one thing it does have in it's favor is that it is untyped damage, and thus nothing can resist it. That's about all I can give it.

[Venar]

The bigger picture shows that most casters do infact dual wield potentcy + lore item (... ...)

The bigger pictures shows that most casters do indeed already have wizardry 6 so the shroud version doesn't matter in any real comparison.

Biased assumptions is why no one can agree.
You use most as if you knew undeniable truths.
Most caster i know dual wield potency + Spell Penetration. Not everyone farm random raid loot, or has a belt of Seven.

Most casters i know did not, in fact, have a WIZ 6 item yet before the shroud. That's why we still see so many black dragon armors (wiz 5). Also, does who did usually had it on their helm, a precious slot ( Minos Legend, or int 6, or cha 6, or wis 6).
Having access, so easily, to wizardry 6 on the slot of your choice is a boon.

Also, be careful to compare other raid loots. Shroud loot is by far the easiest to get, because of the control we get over it. Asking someone to run DQs until he gets a specific item is now silly. A lot simpler to level and craft what you need. Ingredients run are much simpler then 20+ queen raids and pre-reqs over 2 months.

[EspyLacopa]

Honestly, doesn't make me that sad. Means less grinding for my sorcerer.

In my opinion, most tier three effects are not worth 24 Shards when you can have one for 12.

I would be tempted to go for a Mineral II Amulet, and -MO/-MO/-MO goggles on my sorcerer.

[DagazUlf]

How about all this chatter about stuff un-related to the "Eldritch Rituals Cookbook" be taken elsewhere?

This thread is already difficult enough to keep a handle on.

[Boulderun]

Thank you! The dragon eye was a hot commodity at one time. No one even had potency type items yet for their new spells. Now we are tweaked beyond belief with the help of one or two raid items and collectible turn-ins..... Twas a much different world.

Let's not be ridiculous here. The Dragon's Eye was indeed a valuable item at the time. However, the Necklaces of Prophecy were total garbage when VoN was released, and they have remained total garbage ever since.

[Jefro]

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/695/bracerzs6.jpg

[Valiance]

Ummmm... No. Do you even play a caster? The Torc isn't bad, but I have a battlecaster who is often in the thick of things and I only see it trigger about three times in a quest for 20-30 mana each time. It's alright in a pinch if you need the mana for one more haste, but it really isn't all that spectacular when compared with other raid loot (Pouch, Chaosblade). As for the Greenblade and the Staff, they are both flat out BAD. Melee's have FAR more good loot from the DQ than casters: The Glasses for TS, the Chaosblade, the Bracers (yes casters can use them but they are far more useful for a melee)...





Master Kadish

Hmmm... not sure what Torc you got man but I have it on my WF battlecaster and I estimate i get like 300 to 400 sp back per shrine. It is awesome and by far my number one piece of gear. I can start at 0 sp and fight my way up to full if I took enough time and used enough reconstruction scrolls. I'm farming DQ like crazy now to get it for my battlecleric. Torc FTW!!!

[Keneith]

Nice! btw, wats the rate of ur Greater Regen? is it 1hp/15sec?



http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/695/bracerzs6.jpg

[LeLoric]

Personally I run lore+exc int for one shot and cc spells which is most of the time when going to nuke i switch to lore+potency

[Jefro]

regen is 1/15sec

[Cambo]

Material Essence: Arrowhead, Scales, Shrapnel, Stone, Energy Orb
This combo twice created in a row gave me ethereal essence instead of material essence.
I thoutgh it might have been a typo, and went ahead and tried to create my holy damage enhanced khopesh, but i got the Imp. Devotion holy mod, just as id I used etheral+dominion+positive.
Just FYI
I'll remake the khopesh and try the opposite as material essence combo to see if they are accidentally swapped on your page, and let you know


anyone else report this issue ?
My post shows the same as inkblacks spreadsheet.
I am sure this is the recipie i used.

Hopefully a once off anomaly.

[Inkblack]

anyone else report this issue ?
My post shows the same as inkblacks spreadsheet.
I am sure this is the recipie i used.

Hopefully a once off anomaly.

I did make an Ethereal Essence successfully on March 23 using the same recipe on my spreadsheet: Arrow, Chain, Scale, Stone

[liamfrancais]

My caster has 2 hands, what about yours? :D

Yep two hands but apparently only two fingers also because he can only wear two rings.

[Jefro]

Material Essence: Arrowhead, Scales, Shrapnel, Stone, Energy Orb

This is correct, I made my material essences for my bracers using this.

The guy can't tell the difference between the chain and shapnel icons which was his problem and that is how he got what he got. He might be running low graphics, pressed by the rest of the group to hurry, or mixing drinking and crafting together, who knows *shrug* But chain and shapnel can be mistaken easily.

[Kulhwch]

Sorry for asking what is probably a stupid question, but rather than read through this massive post, I figured I would enlist the help of one of you crafting gurus.

Has anyone tried combining two Negative Aspect Supreme Shards at the Altar of Devastation? I don't see it on any of the spreadsheets, and Ilandrya says it hasn't been tried in his Guide to Crafting post.

Just wondering if there is any bonus other than the Slay Living (Guard) for the pure negative upgrade line.

Thanks in advance.

[Yaga_Nub]

I've tried to follow this as close as possible but I still haven't seen the answer to one of these and I think I might have to the other.

1. Example. I made +EE goggles and then did an upgrade with -OE. I meant to do -OM.

The question I have is this - can I just reapply -OM for the second tier upgrade? I thought I saw a post of a PM from El that said once a weapon has been upgraded at an altar it can't be used at that altar again but what about items?

2. Has anyone decided to forgo that Tier 3 bonus effects and just go with a normal tier 3 shard? If so what was the outcome?
Using my goggles as an example, what would happen if I added +EM to my goggles? Would positive then become dominant again and remove Existential Stalemate?

[nbhs275]

I've tried to follow this as close as possible but I still haven't seen the answer to one of these and I think I might have to the other.

1. Example. I made +EE goggles and then did an upgrade with -OE. I meant to do -OM.

The question I have is this - can I just reapply -OM for the second tier upgrade? I thought I saw a post of a PM from El that said once a weapon has been upgraded at an altar it can't be used at that altar again but what about items?

2. Has anyone decided to forgo that Tier 3 bonus effects and just go with a normal tier 3 shard? If so what was the outcome?
Using my goggles as an example, what would happen if I added +EM to my goggles? Would positive then become dominant again and remove Existential Stalemate?

1. Once you put a shard in with ANY greensteel item and combine them its permanent. No going back. If you want a different enhancment then what you put, you will need to make a totally new one.

2. Nothing ever changes what was already on your item. If you dont go with a 2 shard teir 3 recipe, it will not get you the double shard bonus, but it wont change what was already on the item.

[MysticTheurge]

1. Once you put a shard in with ANY greensteel item and combine them its permanent. No going back. If you want a different enhancment then what you put, you will need to make a totally new one.

With the caveat that there was some talk about additional recipes for deconstructing items in future modules.

It was unclear whether this was regular items or green steel items, or both.

[SneakThief]

Has anyone tried combining two Negative Aspect Supreme Shards at the Altar of Devastation? I don't see it on any of the spreadsheets, and Ilandrya says it hasn't been tried in his Guide to Crafting forum.
People have stated they wanted to try, but if they did and posted the result I missed it.


2. Nothing ever changes what was already on your item. If you dont go with a 2 shard teir 3 recipe, it will not get you the double shard bonus, but it wont change what was already on the item.
Just to clarify for the original question. If you add a single shard tier 3 instead of a dual shard you will still get the tier 3 effect, but you will not get the combo bonus. So for instance on Pos/Neg (something I actaully created), you can do Pos at 1, Neg at 2 for Stalemate ... then add just Neg next for only the tier 3 bonus. For me, I went, Neg SP, Pos Regen, Neg Sp again because I wanted the Sp and INT skills, and on the dual shard right now there is no way to get Neg to win.

[SneakThief]

With the caveat that there was some talk about additional recipes for deconstructing items in future modules.

It was unclear whether this was regular items or green steel items, or both.
Wouldnt that be great! :D

[Mavnimo]

I still don't have enough to test a dominant focus change I was planning, but a guildee did try to add a Focus to a dual shard to try and change dominance. He created the Mineral II(earth dominant) and tried combining the dual Shard with a Superior Focus of Positive Energy, which failed. He also tried placing the positive first and it made no difference, in case this was still floating around.

In case you missed it I will be attempting the same Mineral II(earth) and then make a 2nd Positive Supreme Shard. I will then try and combine the dual and the single to see if the focus switches.

+DM, EDM, ((+DM/EDM),+DM).

[Boulderun]

Did he try just the dual shard alone + a power cell? That suggestion was here somewhere, don't think it had been addressed.

[Yaga_Nub]

1. Once you put a shard in with ANY greensteel item and combine them its permanent. No going back. If you want a different enhancment then what you put, you will need to make a totally new one.

2. Nothing ever changes what was already on your item. If you dont go with a 2 shard teir 3 recipe, it will not get you the double shard bonus, but it wont change what was already on the item.


With the caveat that there was some talk about additional recipes for deconstructing items in future modules.

It was unclear whether this was regular items or green steel items, or both.

Thanks for the answers and MT I am hoping that it was both but I too don't quite understand what they tried to tell us.

[Venar]

The way i understood it, is that crafting will become even more intricate, including the ability to de-construct regular loot to gather ingredients (so not green steel items).
Remember, with crafting, the devs now have a entire new farm of loot and treasur to timesink the player (not a bad thing IMO)
I'd rather farm for ingredient when i know i'll get a nice crafted item them farm 60 silly relics, 25 silly scales, or random sigil pieces.

Back on topic...
Let's say you already have a wiz 7 item... what would you put for a tier 1 caster upgrade?

[binnsr]

Let's say you already have a wiz 7 item... what would you put for a tier 1 caster upgrade?

Lore for a lesser used school..

+10hp ..

+5 reflex or fortitude save (presuming you don't have kardin's eye or the boots of the innocent)

Onboard Greater elemental resistance?

Blindness/Disease Immunity

If a cleric, it's a no brainer .. Blindness/Disease immunity of 150sp, +6 wisdom, +10 diplo/haggle and concordant opposition

[Inkblack]

Let's say you already have a wiz 7 item... what would you put for a tier 1 caster upgrade?

My opinion?

1) Greater Resistance (I'd pick acid)
2) +1 skill, +10 hps
3) Blind / Disease Immunity
4) A secondary lore item
5) Fort / Reflex save

Ink

[Venar]

The wiz 7 is an helm, meaning losing the Minos Legens and its 18 HP, so the +10 HP may be a great option to reduce to lose to only 8 HP. Lose 10 HP, gain 50 SP for a sorc... worth it? (Current base SP 2400, base HP 220 (before rage and GH))

Heck, it's an entire new discussion, lol, its like asking Toughness vs Improved Mental Toughness (80 SP vs 18 HP)

Don't answer, it's a derail.

[Borror0]

Let's say you already have a wiz 7 item... what would you put for a tier 1 caster upgrade?

+1 Cha skills for UMD?:D

[ColsonJade]

Finsihed my clerics morningstar today.

I'm really happy with it. Nothing really new with the speicals.

I used all 3 gems, both essense and Neg and Positive in it.

First: Pos / Eth / Escal

Second: Neg / Mat / Opp

Third: Stalemate / Eth / Dom

My Morningstar (http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reepsmace2fw4.jpg)

[Vienemen]

You can get Concordant Opposition on a weapon.

But not with exceptional int.

[MysticTheurge]

But not with exceptional int.

Nope, you get Charisma.

So apparently, by "casters" you meant "Wizards." :rolleyes:

[Vienemen]

righto. Figures the one post I am not throwing the word wizards around in left and right you key in on and make me look casual. Where were you for the whole exceptional Int bit?

[CaptGrim]

Updated and reworked my Eldritch Chart (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p0VLAaQgwZEhecNa1EUXjEA)

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Does it split when attacked with a slashing weapon?

No he has never split in any quest he's spawned in. He also has no timer so if you can keep him alive, he lasts forever. Unfortunately he doesn't follow you around a quest very well (even worse than other summoned pets). Hopefully the pet AI modifications coming in Mod 7 will fix him.

Garth

p.s. Sorry for the delay replying but I wanted to test it throughly before replying.

[Zaodon]

No he has never split in any quest he's spawned in. He also has no timer so if you can keep him alive, he lasts forever. Unfortunately he doesn't follow you around a quest very well (even worse than other summoned pets). Hopefully the pet AI modifications coming in Mod 7 will fix him.


Important follow-up question:




how do you know its a "he" ?
:D

[nbhs275]

Important follow-up question:




how do you know its a "he" ?
:D

because a male slime invokes so many more gross thoughts.

[CaptGrim]

Nvm found it.

[Zaodon]

Eldarin,
any word on the Ash II failure? You indicated you'd check on it, but we haven't hear back yet. Just curious.

[SneakThief]

Eldarin,
any word on the Ash II failure? You indicated you'd check on it, but we haven't hear back yet. Just curious.
You meant Dust II right? Ash II worked on both wep and item.

[Zaodon]

You meant Dust II right? Ash II worked on both wep and item.

Oops, yeah.

[Ikuryo]

It would also be nice to know if we have found everything or if there is something still hidden. Something like making an element mastery scepter gives superior lore for all the elements or something. I know the casters would love a weapon like that.

[borgec]

I'm confused on what you did at the third tier. I understand the Eth / Dom part but not sure about the Stalemate.


Thanks in Advance


Finsihed my clerics morningstar today.

I'm really happy with it. Nothing really new with the speicals.

I used all 3 gems, both essense and Neg and Positive in it.

First: Pos / Eth / Escal

Second: Neg / Mat / Opp

Third: Stalemate / Eth / Dom

My Morningstar (http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reepsmace2fw4.jpg)

[Hendrik]

No he has never split in any quest he's spawned in. He also has no timer so if you can keep him alive, he lasts forever. Unfortunately he doesn't follow you around a quest very well (even worse than other summoned pets). Hopefully the pet AI modifications coming in Mod 7 will fix him.

Garth

p.s. Sorry for the delay replying but I wanted to test it throughly before replying.

LONG LIVE SQUISHY!

:D

[Fanabeam]

Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but I didn't have time to read the whole thread.

Has anyone tried mixing say a positive Supreme shard with another positive supreme shard? Or any two of the same?

[Kargon]

Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but I didn't have time to read the whole thread.

Has anyone tried mixing say a positive Supreme shard with another positive supreme shard? Or any two of the same?

There are no reasamon it would... never mind. kargon will let someone go ahead and waste 12 ingredients trying it since so many peopamul keep bringing up this questimion, kargon tired of arguing about it just so kargon can help somemabody else out.

[MysticTheurge]

I'm confused on what you did at the third tier. I understand the Eth / Dom part but not sure about the Stalemate.

He's referring to the combination of a +ED and a -ED shard.

[ryingar]

Just curious, but has anyone tried to combine two shards on any of the other altars? I'm saving up on small ing to check this out, and was only able to check out one with dissimillar essences, and foci. I was assuming to fail as it did, and haven't been able to do further testing as of yet.

I was thinking that if the mechanics of the third altar allows the combination of two shards, then it would stand to reason that it could be possible to do the same on other altars as well.

Also has anyone tried to combine more than 2 shards on the third altar? We do have four slots available for shards there...like a water,fire, earth,air combo.

Just some thoughts

[Xaxx]

Just curious, but has anyone tried to combine two shards on any of the other altars? I'm saving up on small ing to check this out, and was only able to check out one with dissimillar essences, and foci. I was assuming to fail as it did, and haven't been able to do further testing as of yet.

I was thinking that if the mechanics of the third altar allows the combination of two shards, then it would stand to reason that it could be possible to do the same on other altars as well.

Also has anyone tried to combine more than 2 shards on the third altar? We do have four slots available for shards there...like a water,fire, earth,air combo.

Just some thoughts

this question has been answered inthis thread 2 or 3 times

[Cambo]

this question has been answered inthis thread 2 or 3 times

Guess I had better put the answer on the first posts.


...**** backpage thumb button on my mouse..just lost a huge edit...oh well.

[ryingar]

this question has been answered inthis thread 2 or 3 times

thanks for the info... there are 160 pages of info here... a more enlightening response would have been nice. atqa or keep your snipes to yourself.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Just curious, but has anyone tried to combine two shards on any of the other altars? I'm saving up on small ing to check this out, and was only able to check out one with dissimillar essences, and foci. I was assuming to fail as it did, and haven't been able to do further testing as of yet.


Yes, multiple shards have been tried at both Invasion and Subjugation. Both failed.



I was thinking that if the mechanics of the third altar allows the combination of two shards, then it would stand to reason that it could be possible to do the same on other altars as well.


You can only combine supreme shards.


Also has anyone tried to combine more than 2 shards on the third altar? We do have four slots available for shards there...like a water,fire, earth,air combo.

All evidence at the moment points to only two supreme shards being able to be combined at the Altar of Devastation. I don't think anyone has tried three but I personally would consider the likelyhood of it working to be extremely low - it just wouldn't fit with the rest of the crafting mechanic - two shards at Devastation makes a lot of sense when you are trying to match the elements at Invasion and Subjugation, it wouldn't make sense to combine any more than two.

Garth

[Cambo]

Answers to some common questions:
These answers are not 100% (as some are so unlikely no one has tested it) but are so likely to be correct due to the work carried out across 3000 posts I consider them so.


All the recipes for Green steel items have been uncovered - there is no secret special rapier or greataxe recipe.
Multiple shards combinations only work on the third upgrade
Only Multiple shards creating a known Aspect will combine.
Combining Single Focus Shards is not expected to yield anything special, except pehaps a waste of 12 valuable large ingredients

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

All the recipes for Green steel items have been uncovered - there is no secret special rapier or greataxe recipe.
Multiple shards combinations only work on the third upgrade
Only Multiple shards creating a known Aspect will combine.
Combining Single Focus Shards is not expected to yield anything special, except pehaps a waste of 12 valuable large ingredients

Also (based on PMs I've had from people with questions about this stuff)...


Only shards created with the with the same gem and essence will successfully combine at the altar of Devastation
Only by adding a Supreme Shard at Devastation that matches the existing elemental aspect (e.g. 'Aspect of ...' on the item description) will you unlock the tier 3 special bonus effect. e.g. you put fire at tier 1 and fire at tier 2, you have to add a fire shard. e.g. you put Fire at tier 1 and Negative at Tier 2, you must add an Ash shard. Exception: Balance of Land and Sky requires a Tempered Shard, and Tempered requires a Balance of Land and Sky shard.
When combining Supreme Shards, the dominant element will be determined by the following order: Water, Fire, Earth, Air, Positive, Negative E.g. Fire beats Positive. e.g. Positive beats Negative. Exception: Air beats Water. The dominant element determines the tier 3 effect. E.g. it's not possible to get Good Blast on a mineral II weapon.
Interesting Fact: You do not have to get a bonus effect at tier 3 if you don't want to e.g. you could go Positive Dominion Material then Earth Dominion Material then Positive Dominion Material and end up with a +5 holy acid burst weapon of good blast with no bonus effect - if you really really wanted Good Blast over Acid Blast, Transmuting, Keen, Slicing... (save yourself 12 ingredients!)


Many people have also asked me about the notation being used on this thread and also on my website (http://will.phase.net/ddo/items/) for representing crafted items and weapons. This notation is explained in this (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=135839) post.

Hope that clears a few things up,

Garth

[MysticTheurge]

All evidence at the moment points to only two supreme shards being able to be combined at the Altar of Devastation. I don't think anyone has tried three but I personally would consider the likelyhood of it working to be extremely low

Eladrin has told us that there are no recipes which involve more than two shards of power.

[Borror0]

Eldarin,
any word on the Ash II failure? You indicated you'd check on it, but we haven't hear back yet. Just curious.

Red and purple named immunites, take II.:D

[arcsonist]

Do you all think that if I put shard of power earth and and shard of power negative will the end result equal vorpal. since mineral gives keen and negative equals slay living?

[UtherSRG]

Do you all think that if I put shard of power earth and and shard of power negative will the end result equal vorpal. since mineral gives keen and negative equals slay living?

No.

[arcsonist]

Well for my final tier 3 was going to combine a earth shard of supreme power with one of negative then add the outcome to this weapon any one combine these two shards yet?



http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc304/arcsonist/evilkop.jpg

[UtherSRG]

Well for my final tier 3 was going to combine a earth shard of supreme power with one of negative then add the outcome to this weapon any one combine these two shards yet?



http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc304/arcsonist/evilkop.jpg

You went Neg on tier 1 and Neg on tier 2. The only way to get anything special on tier 3 is to go Neg again.

[Alexander_Illusioni]

Well for my final tier 3 was going to combine a earth shard of supreme power with one of negative then add the outcome to this weapon any one combine these two shards yet?



http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc304/arcsonist/evilkop.jpg


I do not believe this has been tried. The likely outcome is that you will just add the same thing as if you used only an earth supreme shard on it (in other words you will waste 12 ingredients on the neg supreme shard). You can always try, but I think people who have been testing this would say that they are 99&#37; sure it would be an unwise use of ingredients. Good luck.

[Inkblack]

I added a Table of Contents and Instructions for Crafting to my spreadsheet, on the first page. Please take a look. If anyone finds any mistakes, or has suggestions, please send me a PM.

Link: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pLaIqDL_IzJRx5CcCEpCaYg

Ink

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

I do not believe this has been tried. The likely outcome is that you will just add the same thing as if you used only an earth supreme shard on it (in other words you will waste 12 ingredients on the neg supreme shard). You can always try, but I think people who have been testing this would say that they are 99% sure it would be an unwise use of ingredients. Good luck.

You won't waste 12 ingredients, you'll waste 24 - because you won't get a tier 3 bonus effect - firstly because earth will dominate negative and so there's no way that could work, and secondly you're really combining an ash shard with neg/neg - which shouldn't work anyway. On the bright side - you would get the earth tier 3 effect though... so it wouldn't be a total waste...

OP: Strongly advise against doing this. Just put negative on there and get your slay living 1% chance of proc...

Garth

[geoffhanna]

...but I couldn't find a reference. So I tried it myself to be sure.

You cannot combine small Shards of Power. To be specific, I've proven that you cannot combine a small Material, Dominion, Positive shard with a small Material, Dominion, Negative shard.

p.s. Cambo I think the font changes are a big plus!

[edit] Okay now I know its been tried before. Hey I tried to contribute anyway :)

[arcsonist]

Thanks for the input guys I will hold off on making this a tier 3 for now, going to start on the opposite version of this then.

PS hidden effect I noticed is lesser evil guard on the weapon. 1d4

[MadameX]

1st Alter Earth
2nd Alter Water
3d alter Earth + Water
http://www.zeroservers.net/images/ooze.jpg

[Zaodon]

ONLINE CALCULATOR! AWESOME! (http://rpgamerd00d.150m.com/DDOCraftingCalculator.html)
(written by me! :) )

Enjoy.

[stockwizard5]

Since the so-called dominant focus theory has "issues" I am just trying to fill out my table ...

Has anyone made the following combinations and know the dominant focus?

A/N/A+N
A/W/A+W

E/F/E+F
E/N/E+N

F/A/F+A
F/P/F+P

N/A/N+A
N/E/N+E
N/W/N+W

W/A/W+A
W/E/W+E
W/N/W+N
W/P/W+P

Thank you ...

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Since the so-called dominant focus theory has "issues" I am just trying to fill out my table ...

Has anyone made the following combinations and know the dominant focus?

A/N/A+N
A/W/A+W

E/F/E+F
E/N/E+N

F/A/F+A
F/P/F+P

N/A/N+A
N/E/N+E
N/W/N+W

W/A/W+A
W/E/W+E
W/N/W+N
W/P/W+P

Thank you ...

Didn't realise the theory had 'issues' - can you elaborate? All evidence points to the order being Water, Fire, Earth, Air, Positive, Negative (except Air beats Water).

There are screenshots of all the above combinations here (http://will.phase.net/ddo/items/elements.html). You're welcome to trawl through them all (again) and check that they are consistent with the theory.

Garth

[Inkblack]

Since the so-called dominant focus theory has "issues" I am just trying to fill out my table ...

Has anyone made the following combinations and know the dominant focus?

A/N/A+N
A/W/A+W

E/F/E+F
E/N/E+N

F/A/F+A
F/P/F+P

N/A/N+A
N/E/N+E
N/W/N+W

W/A/W+A
W/E/W+E
W/N/W+N
W/P/W+P

Thank you ...

I started to answer this, but I think you are looking for whether a certain order has been tried. Not that I can point to the evidence directly, but I don't believe A/W/A+W is different than W/A/W+A. If you are not concerned about the specific order, the dominance for all combinations is found on the last page of my spreadsheet, the link is in my signature. The only one that I haven't personally seen a screenshot of is Salt (WATER + Negative)

Ink

[MysticTheurge]

Didn't realise the theory had 'issues' - can you elaborate?

Well it does have issues in that it greatly decreases the number of possible recipes.

[stockwizard5]

Didn't realise the theory had 'issues' - can you elaborate? All evidence points to the order being Water, Fire, Earth, Air, Positive, Negative (except Air beats Water).

There are screenshots of all the above combinations here (http://will.phase.net/ddo/items/elements.html). You're welcome to trawl through them all (again) and check that they are consistent with the theory. Garth

When a thoery has an "except" it has "issues" :D Therefore I want to be complete in making sure there are no additonal "except"s. Looking at your screenies (and everyone else's) I do not see any that are inconsistent with our understanding of what beats what - hence why we have the theory (with its exception).


but I don't believe A/W/A+W is different than W/A/W+A.

Me either - but that said - I have not seen any of the combinations I listed anywhere and prefer not to assume they follow and are not potentially another "except". Since its easy enough to ask if anyone has actually done any of these - I did :D


If you are not concerned about the specific order, the dominance for all combinations is found on the last page of my spreadsheet

Ours as well and I am :)

[Zaodon]

When a thoery has an "except" it has "issues" :D Therefore I want to be complete in making sure there are no additonal "except"s. Looking at your screenies (and everyone else's) I do not see any that are inconsistent with our understanding of what beats what - hence why we have the theory (with its exception).

Try this picture:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/RPGamerd00d/ElementalDominance.jpg

[Drith]

ONLINE CALCULATOR! AWESOME! (http://rpgamerd00d.150m.com/DDOCraftingCalculator.html)
(written by me! :) )

Enjoy.


Holy Scots Batman!

Zaodon that is blazing awesome dude. I want to add in all sorts of swear words to further emphasize how amazing that is but I'm not allowed to !

- Dryth

[Drith]

Try this picture:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/RPGamerd00d/ElementalDominance.jpg

That picture doesn't clearly show wether air beats fire or fire beat airs ?

Same with Water / Earth.

May I suggest a slightly different model ?

[Zaodon]

That picture doesn't clearly show wether air beats fire or fire beat airs ?

Same with Water / Earth.

May I suggest a slightly different model ?

Fixed it.
:)

[Kargon]

That picture doesn't clearly show wether air beats fire or fire beat airs ?

Same with Water / Earth.

May I suggest a slightly different model ?

Except for the arrowmows showaming that watermer beat earth and fire beat air in the middle of the 4 elemaments?

[EspyLacopa]

That picture doesn't clearly show wether air beats fire or fire beat airs ?

Same with Water / Earth.

May I suggest a slightly different model ?

Sure it does. Find the line that goes from Air to Fire: note the direction the arrow points. Same thing with Water/Earth.

Personally, I rather like my chart:
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g144/EspyLacopa2/DominanceChartDDO.gif

[Zaodon]

Holy Scots Batman!

Zaodon that is blazing awesome dude. I want to add in all sorts of swear words to further emphasize how amazing that is but I'm not allowed to !

- Dryth

Updated:
- added Green Steel recipes, too.

:D

[Drith]

Sure it does. Find the line that goes from Air to Fire: note the direction the arrow points. Same thing with Water/Earth.

Personally, I rather like my chart:
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g144/EspyLacopa2/DominanceChartDDO.gif

OMG Shinanigans the arrows were added after I posted !!!

LOL.

[jjflanigan]

ONLINE CALCULATOR! AWESOME! (http://rpgamerd00d.150m.com/DDOCraftingCalculator.html)
(written by me! :) )

Enjoy.

If you'd like, I can host that up on perfectweb to get away from the heinous pop-ups and massive banners.

[Cambo]

ONLINE CALCULATOR! AWESOME! (http://rpgamerd00d.150m.com/DDOCraftingCalculator.html)
(written by me! :) )

Enjoy.

Nice Work!!

[nbhs275]

As far as that calculator goes, its going to be saving me alot of paper. /cheer


Very very nicely made. Simple, and clear.

[Gornin]

Just wanted to take a minute to write thanks to everyone for their work, especially Cambo, Inkblack and the Wiki guys for all of the documentation. And that is an excellent utility Zoadan. Sorry I am not able to contribute, but this is much appreciated.

[Zaodon]

If you'd like, I can host that up on perfectweb to get away from the heinous pop-ups and massive banners.

I tend to be a "fiddler". i.e. I will tweak it constantly. Maybe in a week or so, once I finally give up on being obsessive/compulsive and decide its really "done"... :)

[Wulf_Ratbane]

ONLINE CALCULATOR! AWESOME! (http://rpgamerd00d.150m.com/DDOCraftingCalculator.html)
(written by me! :) )


VERY handy. Yes, it's awesome.

Good job on not "over-designing" it, either.

[stockwizard5]

Try this picture:

Gets my vote for best picture yet ...

also can confirm that Ethereal, Escalation, Focus and Material, Escalation, Focus did not combine ...

[tihocan]

also can confirm that Ethereal, Escalation, Focus and Material, Escalation, Focus did not combine ...
Awesome, that was the one thing I was planning to try. Can you say exactly what focus you tried it with? (not that it really matters, but I'm keeping a log of all stuff that's been tried, so the more accuracy the better).

[stockwizard5]

Awesome, that was the one thing I was planning to try. Can you say exactly what focus you tried it with? (not that it really matters, but I'm keeping a log of all stuff that's been tried, so the more accuracy the better).

Ya - I have a log also ...

This was a case of "why is this not working" ...

He was trying to make a Transmuting Weapon with CON +2 IIRC so I think it might have been MDP/MDE/MEE+EEP. There was like 6 screw-ups last night - might be getting them confused :confused:

[tihocan]

Ya - I have a log also ...

This was a case of "why is this not working" ...

He was trying to make a Transmuting Weapon with CON +2 IIRC so I think it might have been MDP/MDE/MEE+EEP. There was like 6 screw-ups last night - might be getting them confused :confused:
Hehe, it's very important to get the failures right, because when something is reported as having failed, people aren't going to double-check :rolleyes:

[Diavlo]

:) :) :)


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/gonzomx/LONGBOW1.jpg

[Gornn]

Got a question about Radiance 2...

Have we confirmed that the light damage is on ALL critical hits? As opposed to just on a roll of a 20?

So on an improve critical longsword you would get an extra 4d6 of light on 17-20?

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

On a completely different note... anyone getting close to 20 runs?

[Cambo]

Ok - Major Revamp of the first 5 post is 90% complete...Feedback Welcome
Still updating Tier 3 Special Effect Descriptions.

Also added Frequently asked Answers to questions..since the thread is so long.
Some of these were given by Willphase as he has recieved several PM's on issues.

Please review these and add too or correct anything that needs correcting.

================================================== ================================

Answers to common questions (Thanks Willphase for providing answers to PMed questions)

All the recipes for Green steel items have been uncovered - there is no secret special rapier or greataxe etc. recipe.
Multiple shards combinations only work on the third upgrade .
There are no 3 shard recipes.
Only Multiple shards creating a known Aspect will combine.
Combining Single Focus Shards is not expected to yield anything special, except pehaps a waste of 12 valuable large ingredients.
Only shards created with the with the same gem and essence will successfully combine at the altar of Devastation.
If you chose a single focus upgrade path the only way to unlock your 3rd tier specail bonus is to add a Supreme shard of the same focus e.g. you put fire at tier 1 and fire at tier 2, you have to add a fire shard to the third tie to gain your specila bonus.
If you have an item with a mixed focus aspect (ie not fire fire, positive, positive etc) Then only by adding a "Super" Shard at the 3rd Altar (Devastation) that matches the existing elemental aspect (e.g. 'Aspect of ...' on the item description) will you unlock the tier 3 special bonus effect. e.g. you put Fire at tier 1 and Negative at Tier 2, you must add an Ash shard. Exception: Balance of Land and Sky requires a Tempered Shard, and Tempered requires a Balance of Land and Sky shard.
When combining Supreme Shards, the dominant element will be determined by the following order: Water, Fire, Earth, Air, Positive, Negative E.g. Fire beats Positive. e.g. Positive beats Negative. Exception: Air beats Water. The dominant element determines the tier 3 effect. E.g. it's not possible to get Good Blast on a mineral II weapon.
Interesting Fact: You do not have to get a bonus effect at tier 3 if you don't want to e.g. you could go Positive Dominion Material then Earth Dominion Material then Positive Dominion Material and end up with a +5 holy acid burst weapon of good blast with no bonus effect - if you really really wanted Good Blast over Acid Blast, Transmuting, Keen, Slicing... (save yourself 12 ingredients!) ================================================== ================================

[Ikuryo]

I was looking through my options screen while bored and noticed the option under gameplay that sets the quest rewards to be class based. I'm wondering if the cleaner is a general reward and that flag is keeping us from getting it. If the class type items are given a higher value as a reward by the game then we might not get the cleaner if we have that checked. I'm going to keep mine unchecked when I complete the quest and see if the cleaner ever shows up.

[Shade]

I was looking through my options screen while bored and noticed the option under gameplay that sets the quest rewards to be class based. I'm wondering if the cleaner is a general reward and that flag is keeping us from getting it. If the class type items are given a higher value as a reward by the game then we might not get the cleaner if we have that checked. I'm going to keep mine unchecked when I complete the quest and see if the cleaner ever shows up.

Well I have mine on for my barbarians 10+ completions.
Off for my sorcerers 6+ completions.
Neither hold such an item.

And im sure hundreds if not thousands of more players have completed the shroud with it unchecked vs checked.

The cleansing item is only available for the 20th completion - if at all.

[nochipatzin]

I would like to seek advice from experts in crafting, first of all I do not speak English so well for more I read and I read is complicated because it makes me understand half of what I read and before long wasted 12 ingredients and a shard of suprem I would like to ask power, I have this sword

I mixing the material, domination, positive= holy
Material domination, hearth= acid

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/5899/shortswordgu5.th.gif (http://img353.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shortswordgu5.gif)

And what we had thought was to make the final upgrade again
Material domination positive and material domination hearth and to keep a
The question is whether this is possible if someone I could say in theory the result of this, what I seek is that the weapons do not harm me or +x skills + x diplomacy or none of this so I also accept recommendations from other convinaciones I look for the greatest damage that can do the sword thank you

[Cambo]

I would like to seek advice from experts in crafting, first of all I do not speak English so well for more I read and I read is complicated because it makes me understand half of what I read and before long wasted 12 ingredients and a shard of suprem I would like to ask power, I have this sword

I mixing the material, domination, positive= holy
Material domination, hearth= acid



And what we had thought was to make the final upgrade again
Material domination positive and material domination hearth and to keep a
The question is whether this is possible if someone I could say in theory the result of this, what I seek is that the weapons do not harm me or +x skills + x diplomacy or none of this so I also accept recommendations from other convinaciones I look for the greatest damage that can do the sword thank you

The next upgrade that would be most common (if you can get enough ingredients) is making a super shard that combines 2 shards for the following benefit.
Transmuting, Keen, slicing and improve the hardnes and durability of the item.
In addition you could gain Acid blast or +4 AC.

I will describe the option of gaining Acid Blast and Transmuting etc.

Make 2 Supreme shards at the final altar.
1 x Material Domination Earth
1 x Material Domination Positive
Put both shards together with an energry cell and creat a super shard with Aspect of mineral
Combine the aspect of mineral sard with the weapon.
You wll the have one of the mot sought after shroud weapons, if you can afford the 24 ingredients.

If you cant get 24 ingredients and only want to use 12 you could add acid blast or good blast on thier own but you would miss out on the transmuting, keen and slicing bonus.

[nochipatzin]

The next upgrade that would be most common (if you can get enough ingredients) is making a super shard that combines 2 shards for the following benefit.
Transmuting, Keen, slicing and improve the hardnes and durability of the item.
In addition you could gain Acid blast or +4 AC.

I will describe the option of gaining Acid Blast and Transmuting etc.

Make 2 Supreme shards at the final altar.
1 x Material Domination Earth
1 x Material Domination Positive
Put both shards together with an energry cell and creat a super shard with Aspect of mineral
Combine the aspect of mineral sard with the weapon.
You wll the have one of the mot sought after shroud weapons, if you can afford the 24 ingredients.

If you cant get 24 ingredients and only want to use 12 you could add acid blast or good blast on thier own but you would miss out on the
transmuting, keen and slicing bonus.

Thx very mch i have 12 only I am missing 12 :P