Stone of Change - Eldritch Rituals Cookbook

[Kargon]

so if i went

air/dom/mat
air/dom/mat
for the first 2 and tried kargons
air/dom/mat+pos/dom/mat

any ideas what would happen, would it screw u p and give me the haste gaurd and be air 2, would it give me the lightning strike or would it give me something different

Kargon assume it would give same as just using air/dom/mat and waste all the ingredimients for pos/dom/mat completamally.

[Xaxx]

so go
pos
air
air+pos just to be safe?

[The_Cataclysm]

so go
pos
air
air+pos just to be safe?

Yes. I see no reason why you would be able to get Lightning II without getting Lightning I first.

[jjflanigan]

Well, here it is. I was hoping for a blinding effect. Looks like I gotta try Dust 2 next!

Aspect of Smoke Longsword

http://imageduck.com/v/screenshot00070505.jpg

Taco Supreme Shard

http://imageduck.com/v/screenshot00069.jpg

+5 Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Longsword of Smoke

http://imageduck.com/v/screenshot00075f9a.jpg

A couple of things: Displacement is only 2x per day, listed in Ink's chart as 3x. The fire shard was dominant over air. I placed the fire shard in first. I'll leave that one to you guys!

Thanks to everyone that helped me craft this. My guildies helped out a lot, especially Toro, Grizzzz, and Piro. And Ink traded me a few right before the raid, and Halspex made an emergency trade at the altar, lol. And thanks to the Free Companions for putting up with my slow crafting. Oh, and thanks to whomever put that battleaxe in the auction house (see first screenshot).

Happy Hunting.

Out of curiousity...have you tested if the smoke screen will stack with displacement or blur? I only ask because the effect descriptions are very different so I'm hopeful (stupidly so, I'm sure) that they may stack.

[Eudimio]

Out of curiousity...have you tested if the smoke screen will stack with displacement or blur? I only ask because the effect descriptions are very different so I'm hopeful (stupidly so, I'm sure) that they may stack.

True Seeing > Smoke screen :(

I'll test some more after the event.

[Borror0]

Out of curiousity...have you tested if the smoke screen will stack with displacement or blur? I only ask because the effect descriptions are very different so I'm hopeful (stupidly so, I'm sure) that they may stack.

I was thinking (hoping) the same given the stackable nature of Green Steel effects.

[Xaxx]

Yes. I see no reason why you would be able to get Lightning II without getting Lightning I first.

yeah i kinda figured but i kinda wanted the full shocking ***** slap treatment

[Borror0]

yeah i kinda figured but i kinda wanted the full shocking ***** slap treatment

Could always try it and take one for the team... or hope for a dev's reply, saving you lots of large ingrediants.

[Xaxx]

Could always try it and take one for the team... or hope for a dev's reply, saving you lots of large ingrediants.

yeah i may anyway just to see what happens, need to finish gathering ingridients if i do the a/a/a+p i'll post what happens

[ChildrenofBodom]

That sucks with smoke II...:(

[Inkblack]

The fire shard was dominant over air. I placed the fire shard in first. I'll leave that one to you guys!


I think that means this:

DOMINANT

Earth (or Fire)....(Earth dominant over Positive and Air)
Fire (or Earth).....(Fire dominant over Air)
Air....(known to be dominant over Water and Positive, dominated by Fire and Earth)
Water....(known to be dominant over Positive, dominated by Air)
Positive....(known to be dominant over Negative, dominated by Earth and Air)
Negative....(known to be dominated by Positive)

PASSIVE

Although technically Positive could be dominant over water, although it seems unlikely.
I would really like to see a Magma II upgrade to determine the top position.

Ink

[Zaodon]

Actually, if you open your mind a bit more to the fact that it is, in fact, three dimensional. . .It could also be Existential Stalemate ^_^
It also runs perpendicular to BoLaS.

HOWEVER

Opposites in that picture are not those that are perpendicular. . .they are those that are flipped. Scross the center.(Such as your Magma/Ice bit, another example would be Salt and Radiance.) Flip BoLaS over center. . .and you get BoLaS.

Brilliant theory.

Oh wait, BoLaS + BoLaS already failed.

[Ladywolf]

Concordant Opposition (On-being-hit trigger chance, gain temporary hit points or spell points.) : does it stack with queen torq's transform kinetic energy?

[Borror0]

Brilliant theory.

Oh wait, BoLaS + BoLaS already failed.

Wrong! Earth + Air + BoLaS failed.:rolleyes:

[Desteria]

I think that means this:

DOMINANT

Earth (or Fire)....(Earth dominant over Positive and Air)
Fire (or Earth).....(Fire dominant over Air)
Air....(known to be dominant over Water and Positive, dominated by Fire and Earth)
Water....(known to be dominant over Positive, dominated by Air)
Positive....(known to be dominant over Negative, dominated by Earth and Air)
Negative....(known to be dominated by Positive)

PASSIVE

Although technically Positive could be dominant over water, although it seems unlikely.
I would really like to see a Magma II upgrade to determine the top position.

Ink

The smoke 2 LS was put in the order of Fire then Air the combined shard had Fire in it so either fire is suppream to air OR order can matter some times, OR maby the bolas shard combined is bugged and always list searht first who knows.

[Wulf_Ratbane]

Well, here it is. I was hoping for a blinding effect.

I think that's a fine longsword indeed.

[Cambo]

Concordant Opposition (On-being-hit trigger chance, gain temporary hit points or spell points.) : does it stack with queen torq's transform kinetic energy?

reported as stacking

[Ilandrya]

Did the two individuals who created Mineral II (1 Weapon, 1 Accessory) both end up with Earth dominate on the dual shard?
I can only find a screenie for one of the shards, which listed Earth. Since we now have an example of a pairing going the opposite way as listed in the desription of an aspect/balance, I think we need to start tracking this on an individual basis since we don't know what is causing a focus to be dominate over another at this point. Even if the dominate focus has no bearing on whether an item achieves "II" (questionable because of the failure of Land and Sky, since we don't know what caused it to fail) it does seem, at this point, to be what the altar of devastation uses on the third level upgrade, so it's important to know how the dominate focus of each pair is chosen, or, failing that, to see that each aspect/balance pair is consistant in which focus it defaults to.

Given this, if you create a dual focus shard, please make sure to post it... regardless of whether we already know the "II" effect or not, or whether or not the item successfully received "II".

At this point we have 6 successful "II" upgrades... Mineral twice. Looking at screenies, we know:

concordant opposition = pos
smoke screen = fire
freezing ice = air
lightning strike = air
mineral = earth (in 1 of 2 examples, 2nd not known)

One example of each is not enough imho to conclude yet what the dominate focus is yet in any aspect/balance dual focus shard because, again, we don't know how it chooses the dominate, but for those keeping track, that is what we have thus far.

[Mad_Bombardier]

I wouldn't try for Vacuum II.

Rumor has it it totally sucks.Bwahahahaha! :D

[Ilandrya]

Given what we know about the six successful "II" upgrades, if we use the graphic representation of the planes given earlier, and if we think of it as having currents/flow:

http://i26.tinypic.com/rv8to0.jpg
(Please excuse the crude paint job)


Theory on how a dual shard picks a dominate focus:

The "desination" rather than the "departure point" is the dominate focus of the dual shard. (Since we know that the order of the shards when combining them in the altar doesn't matter, and the order in the desription of the aspect/balance doesn't matter, I came up with this as a possiblity for determining focus dominance.)

We know the flow of positive to element, and assuming it's consistant, element to element, but not neg to element and opposing elements of earth/air and fire/water. (I'm assuming the neg to element flow in the chart above because it would match the pattern that pos to element takes.)

As for the elemental oppositions, not certain which is correct, but they would either need to pass through another element to get to their opposite, or pass through the neg/pos current to get to the other element.


Theory on how BoLaS/Tempered I will become a II based on the above:

I'm personally leaning toward the pos/neg shard being combined with either BoLaS and Tempered to be the more likely one to create a II. This is because, assuming a current would take the path of least resistance and/or shortest route, the elemental balance combos have to either "meet at" or "pass through" the neg/positive current in order to get to the other element when looked at in three dimensions. None of the other combinations have to meet or pass through other elements/energies to get where they are going (which is why the elemental balances are different even from existential stalemate), whether you see them as passing through another element and taking the long way around to the other element, or see them as taking the shortcut through the pos/neg current to get to the other element. Also, if we look at the opposing force of neg/pos we see that the current runs through the middle to get to the other one (since both energies flow outward to the elementals)... if we assume the other two opposing forces work the same way, they would run through pos/neg rather than take the path through another element. Thinking about the neg/pos current, with pos being the dominate focus, that would create a + to the elemetal balances, ie... strengthening them into II's. Adding other elements would seem to confuse the elemental nature of what has already been imparted, imho.

So, given that, I'm going to guess that:

earth and sky with pos/neg shard gives earth and sky II
tempered with pos/neg shard gives tempered II

possibly something special with:

earth/air/fire/water

[MysticTheurge]

True Seeing > Smoke screen :(

That's too bad. In theory, Smoke shouldn't be bypassed by True Seeing since it's not really an illusion, it's actual smoke causing concealment.

That alone might make it worth getting (even if it doesn't stack with other stuff).

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Did the two individuals who created Mineral II (1 Weapon, 1 Accessory) both end up with Earth dominate on the dual shard?
I can only find a screenie for one of the shards, which listed Earth. Since we now have an example of a pairing going the opposite way as listed in the desription of an aspect/balance, I think we need to start tracking this on an individual basis since we don't know what is causing a focus to be dominate over another at this point. Even if the dominate focus has no bearing on whether an item achieves "II" (questionable because of the failure of Land and Sky, since we don't know what caused it to fail) it does seem, at this point, to be what the altar of devastation uses on the third level upgrade, so it's important to know how the dominate focus of each pair is chosen, or, failing that, to see that each aspect/balance pair is consistant in which focus it defaults to.

Given this, if you create a dual focus shard, please make sure to post it... regardless of whether we already know the "II" effect or not, or whether or not the item successfully received "II".

At this point we have 6 successful "II" upgrades... Mineral twice. Looking at screenies, we know:

concordant opposition = pos
smoke screen = fire
freezing ice = air
lightning strike = air
mineral = earth (in 1 of 2 examples, 2nd not known)

One example of each is not enough imho to conclude yet what the dominate focus is yet in any aspect/balance dual focus shard because, again, we don't know how it chooses the dominate, but for those keeping track, that is what we have thus far.

You're just repeating what you or others have already said. We've already had a lot of discussion on which elements dominate which other ones and Inkblack has already posted (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=1606919#post1606919) a proposed order based on the results we've seen.

When I created my mineral shard I put Pos then Earth, and when CoisonJade put his in he put Earth then Pos, this proves that order doesn't matter since we both got Earth shards. That discussion can end - it just serves to confuse people who are new to the thread and don't have time to read all the old posts to see endless discussion about that.

Regarding the balance of land and sky, and why that failed - we DON'T KNOW. Eladrin has said that upgrading special combinations is trickier and some are trickier than others. We need to stop speculating and need to get into the Shroud, loot some large ingredients, and try some combinations. You've suggested two possible combinations (depending on which of your posts I read it's either add pos/neg or add fire/water) so we should probably try both (I personally suggest trying fire/water first).

I hope the message was clear from my 'ASCII numerology' post that we can speculate/theorize at infinitum about what the correct combinations are, but until we try, it's just speculation.

So - stop reading this thread and get into the Shroud! :)

Garth

[Zaodon]

Wrong! Earth + Air + BoLaS failed.:rolleyes:

And we already know that order doesn't matter for the supershard.

Because we got two successes with different orders:

1 Positive Dominion Material (positive affinity)
2 Earth Dominion Material (aspect of mineral)
3 Earth Opposition Ethereal + Positive Opposition Ethereal = Earth Opposition Ethereal / Mineral

Pos+Earth+(Earth+Pos=Earth)

and

1 Material Earth Escalation
2 Ethereal Positive Escalation
3 Ethereal Positive Escalation + Ethereal Earth Escalation = Ethereal Earth Escalation / Mineral

Earth+Pos+(Pos+Earth=Earth)

and

1 Air Dominion Material (air affinity)
2 Water Dominion Material (aspect of ice)
3 Air Dominion Material + Water Dominion Material = Air Dominion Material / Ice

Air+Water+(Air+Water=Air)

But thats ok, you keep on thinking you can get BoLaS II by adding BoLaS. I bet you love farming ingredients...:rolleyes:

[Ilandrya]

You're just repeating what you or others have already said. We've already had a lot of discussion on which elements dominate which other ones and Inkblack has already posted (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=1606919#post1606919) a proposed order based on the results we've seen.

Actually, if you read carefully, with my posts earlier today, I'm not repeating a theory I've previously had or one anyone else has mentioned in regard to focus dominance on dual shards being determined by a "flow" of energies/elements. Yes, I know we've had much discussion on this subject. As for Inkblack's spreadsheet, which I had already read this morning previous to my two posts earlier today, he's still basing much of that off of the "description of the aspect/balance showing the dominate" theory, which was disproven yesterday. (EDIT: You and I are referring to two different sheets/posts here. Upon reading what you linked to, he appears to now be lisiting it based upon successful dual shard results only, which I concur with. However, the two previous theories on how focus dominance is decided upon are now invalid, and his post doesn't go into how that dominance is decided upon, which leaves us without a theory... I presented a new one today to explore.) Without knowing how dominance is determined, the only things that should be on that chart now, since the theory he based much of the information on failed, is what we know for certain... the focuses that were dominate on dual shards that have been thus far successfully created.. so far six have been reported...two were mineral.


When I created my mineral shard I put Pos then Earth, and when CoisonJade put his in he put Earth then Pos, this proves that order doesn't matter since we both got Earth shards. That discussion can end - it just serves to confuse people who are new to the thread and don't have time to read all the old posts to see endless discussion about that.

I am aware of this, and disregarded that theory awhile back. If you are thoroughly reading my posts, you would know that. The shard order theory I presented yesterday was not the same one... you are talking about when it's applied to combining the two shards into one, in order to determine the dominate focus of a dual imbued shard... I was talking about when you combine the dual shard with your item, in order to determine why BoLaS I failed to upgrade to BoLaS II. Not the same thing.


Regarding the balance of land and sky, and why that failed - we DON'T KNOW. Eladrin has said that upgrading special combinations is trickier and some are trickier than others. We need to stop speculating and need to get into the Shroud, loot some large ingredients, and try some combinations. You've suggested two possible combinations (depending on which of your posts I read it's either add pos/neg or add fire/water) so we should probably try both (I personally suggest trying fire/water first).

I hope the message was clear from my 'ASCII numerology' post that we can speculate/theorize at infinitum about what the correct combinations are, but until we try, it's just speculation.

So - stop reading this thread and get into the Shroud! :)

Garth

Correct... we don't know. I'm suggesting what may work that we have not tried and giving reason why it may work. Yes, I did catch the humor and point in the ASCII bit... I realize we can theorize endlessly about this, but theory has played a large, and necessary, part in where we are now in the crafting process. Given that large ingredients don't drop very often, we can significantly decrease the time in figuring out the entire process, and perhaps the loss of ingredients, by relying on both theory and experiments rather than one or the other exclusively.

I personally have only one toon, a Cleric, who is able to run the Shroud, because I hate levelling... lowbie-itis if you will. Out of three ransacks, I've gotten a grand total of six large ingredients. At that rate, I'm guessing I'll have enough for a dual shard third upgrade in about two more months. While sacked, I have a lot of time to theorize, as old theories of my own and are others are discarded and we narrow things down through a process of elimination. If you aren't interested in theories, feel free not to read my posts in this thread, but if you are going to read them and then comment upon them, please read them thoroughly.

Of the two theories of mine you mention, I'm personally now leaning toward the pos/neg shard being combined with either BoLaS and Tempered to be the more likely one. This is because, assuming a current would take the path of least resistance and/or shortest route, the elemental balance combos have to either "meet at" or "pass through" the neg/positive current in order to get to the other element when looked at in three dimensions. None of the other combinations have to meet or pass through other elements/energies to get where they are going (which is why the elemental balances are different even from existential stalemate), whether you see them as passing through another element and taking the long way around to the other element, or see them as taking the shortcut through the pos/neg current to get to the other element. Also, if we look at the opposing force of neg/pos we see that the current runs through the middle to get to the other one... if we assume the other two opposing forces work the same way, they would run through pos/neg rather than take the path through another element. Thinking about the neg/pos current, with pos being the dominate focus, that would create a + to the elemetal balances, ie... strengthening them into II's. Adding other elements would seem to confuse the elemental nature of what has already been imparted, imho.

[Eudimio]

I think that's a fine longsword indeed.

Thanks Wulf,

Yeah, it is a nice defensive weapon. My main is a strength-based TWF rogue that likes to tank on the side. Sound like anyone you know? With this sword I can hit 80 AC. I used to very much enjoy reading your story hour back in the day. My main was a pnp character around the same time as Wulf. I'll keep searching for a blinding effect, but my ingredients are kinda tapped-out.

Happy Hunting.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

If you aren't interested in theories, feel free not to read my posts in this thread, but if you are going to read them and then comment upon them, please read them thoroughly

Lol I find it hard to read your posts because they keep changing - I think you've edited that last one at least five times :)

Anyway - looking forward to someone trying Tempered on BoLaS - I think a guildy is half way to getting the ingredients required, and we have Magma II planned for today/tomorrow so should see whether Fire is dominant over Earth or not.

Regards,

Garth

[Ilandrya]

Lol I find it hard to read your posts because they keep changing - I think you've edited that last one at least five times :)

Anyway - looking forward to someone trying Tempered on BoLaS - I think a guildy is half way to getting the ingredients required, and we have Magma II planned for today/tomorrow so should see whether Fire is dominant over Earth or not.

Regards,

Garth

Yup, I tend to do that when I catch typos or linguistic issues that I think would lead to confusion when proof reading. I have deaf parents and I'm used to having to think in two different ways when communicating based upon whether I'm talking to hearing people or deaf people of my parent's generation, so I second guess my choice of words a lot. I also, where some things are concerned, tend to be a bit of an "obssessive/compulsive" type a personality, although fortunately I don't struggle with ego or the need to be dominant rather than just assertive, so that helps, and some things I'm rather a type b on... but anyway I digress...

Good luck to you guys on your experiments. For those of you on Ghallanda who know me, as always I'm happy to help out on any run if a Cleric is needed whether or not I'm sacked, and as always give away anything I don't need, uber or otherwise. If you'd like to help me get another 100 SP and Concordant Opposition to help me cut down on my costs on the Shroud and other runs, I'm happy to accept donations of large ingredients since I still need 18 of them at this point.

[Inkblack]

As for Inkblack's spreadsheet, which I had already read this morning previous to my two posts earlier today, he's still basing much of that off of the "description of the aspect/balance showing the dominate" theory, which was disproven yesterday.

I thought I took all of that out last night -- where is it still in there? I updated based on the fire over air -- which is the order linked on post you quoted, recapped below:

Dominant...................................Submiss ive
Earth or Fire / Air / Water / Positive / Negative

Ink

[SneakThief]

Ash II is Enervation Guard. Chance for neg level on hit. Pics to come.

[sheldie]

Ash II is Enervation Guard.

Ooo, very nice.

[Cambo]

In process of update first post in thread with:
Recent News

and an index to important pages/ discoveries for quick reference.

Let me know things you would like added.

[DemonMage]

It's probably better to say the post is updated through post #whatever, rather than a page number. Given that you say you're updated through page 124, and the thread is only 64 pages long for those of us with max posts per page setting.

[sirgog]

It's probably better to say the thread is updated through post #whatever, rather than a page number. Given that you say you're updated through page 124, and the thread is only 64 pages long for those of us with max posts per page setting.

I have the same setting - I just halve the page number given and round up. So when someone says 'up to date to page 125' I think - up to date as at first half of page 63.

[Cambo]

It's probably better to say the post is updated through post #whatever, rather than a page number. Given that you say you're updated through page 124, and the thread is only 64 pages long for those of us with max posts per page setting.

I was going to link to the page. but I am unaware how that will impact those with max settings.
I wasnt aweare of those settings so thanks for the heads up.

[Cambo]

That's too bad. In theory, Smoke shouldn't be bypassed by True Seeing since it's not really an illusion, it's actual smoke causing concealment.

That alone might make it worth getting (even if it doesn't stack with other stuff).

If it was real smoke not illusionary smoke the wielder wouldnt be able to see either...
or maybe true seeing overcomes all aspects of the old addage...smoke and mirrors...lol

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

I find the best way to link to a particular post in a thread and still keep the context is to use the button to the top right of the post you wish to link to get a 'single post view' then to use the link to the thread link at the top right of this page to get a contextual link - this can then be cut and paste into your URL code. e.g. Cambo's most recent post (number #2534) the 'view single post' link is:

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1607964&postcount=2534

but the 'view with context' link is:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=1607964#post1607964

which gives you the ability to move around the thread and is page number independent.

On another, more crafting related note, I've had quite a few people in game asking me about third tier upgrad combinations. There appears to be a bit of confusion about the gems and essences you should use at tier 3 when combining shards.

I think it's important people know that all the current evidence (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=1604150#post1604150) is that you need to match the gems and essences in your two supreme shards if you want them to combine.

E.g. if you are upgrading Vacuum I to Vacuum II - and you wish to get CHA +3 skills and 100 spell points, you should combine Air Ethereal Escalation with Negative Etheral Escalation. The Air will dominate the Negative and you will end up with an Air Ethereal Escalation with Aspect of Vacuum supreme shard which you can then combine with your item to give you the required tier 3 upgrade. I've had a few people just about to combine shards with different gems and essences and potentially waste a lot of large ingredients.

Hope that helps,

Garth

[Justicesar]

Is there an updated pic of Pure Pos Foci and Pure earth Foci weapons afte 6.1 when Blast description was changed??? I can not find and know that the Blast description was changed but would like to know or see what the Blast on pure POS is.

Thanks

[MysticTheurge]

If it was real smoke not illusionary smoke the wielder wouldnt be able to see either...
or maybe true seeing overcomes all aspects of the old addage...smoke and mirrors...lol

That assumes the smoke is consistent across the wielder's entire body.

It could provide significant concealment without hindering the wielder's vision simply by not covering much of his or her face.

[Yaga_Nub]

That's too bad. In theory, Smoke shouldn't be bypassed by True Seeing since it's not really an illusion, it's actual smoke causing concealment.

That alone might make it worth getting (even if it doesn't stack with other stuff).


If it was real smoke not illusionary smoke the wielder wouldnt be able to see either...
or maybe true seeing overcomes all aspects of the old addage...smoke and mirrors...lol


That assumes the smoke is consistent across the wielder's entire body.

It could provide significant concealment without hindering the wielder's vision simply by not covering much of his or her face.

Let's think about this for a minute. We use Solid Fog and Acid Cloud all the time and we don't say, "Wow I know this a spell but shouldn't it impair my vision as well as my enemies!" No, we just accept that these spells don't affect the caster or his/her party. Why can't we just except that it's magic and that the "real" smoke wouldn't affect the wielder and that True Sight shouldn't penetrate smoke because there's no illusion to it, it's real smoke.

True Sight doesn't negate the % chance to miss from Solid Fog does it?

[MysticTheurge]

True Sight doesn't negate the % chance to miss from Solid Fog does it?

No. In fact, that's the main benefit of some cloud spells (obscuring mist, fog cloud). They create actual fog, not illusory fog, and therefore True Seeing sees the fog for what it is.

In fact, the visuals on DDO's blur and displacement are remarkably deceptive. Neither spell should create wispy stuff around the subject, like they do in DDO. While under the effect of a blur spell your "outline appears blurred, shifting and wavering." And displacement causes you to appear to be "about 2 feet away from [your] true location."

[Wulf_Ratbane]

Yeah, it is a nice defensive weapon. My main is a strength-based TWF rogue that likes to tank on the side. Sound like anyone you know?

Hmm... No, no, doesn't ring a bell. Now as for a CON-based TWF rogue...


I used to very much enjoy reading your story hour back in the day.

Thanks for the kind words.

My original (28 point) "main" was Wulf Ratbane in the "classic" mold... he's since been relegated to mule duty. I'd delete him and reroll but some bastard Dev decided it would be funny to bind my Dwarven Thrower. I can't bear to delete it.

Back on topic... It's odd that Smoke II would give Blur on a weapon. Not that it's not a great mod, but you're right-- having the miss chance on gear and a blinding chance on a weapon would make more sense.

Why didn't you try Radiance? That seems more likely.

At any rate if you want your TWF to do the "thug" thing you just need Weighted +10 in one hand (and a Seeker +10 pick in the other). I have a hard time believing that any of the special raid mods are going to proc more often than Weighted 10's 5%. It might as well be vorpal-- nothing survives one go 'round of TWF once it's stunned.

I need a Weighted +10 Sock Full O' Pennies...

[Angelus_dead]

At any rate if you want your TWF to do the "thug" thing you just need Weighted +10 in one hand (and a Seeker +10 pick in the other). I have a hard time believing that any of the special raid mods are going to proc more often than Weighted 10's 5%. It might as well be vorpal-- nothing survives one go 'round of TWF once it's stunned.
Any red-named boss monster survives it perfectly well.

That's an advantage of some of the green steel enhancements. The Lightning Strike, for example, is a chance for 600 electric damage, and named monsters are not immune to raw hitpoint damage.

[Eudimio]

Haha Wulf, you definately are on the same page as me. My next weapon will be Radience 2. If that fails, I guess Dust 2.

My main two-weapon set is a hammer of the leaden clouds with a +1 seeker 10 light pick of righteousness in the offhand. I use stunning blow everytime the cooldown ends.

My main is pretty much a straight copy from the pnp version, including starting stats and levels.

Happy Hunting, and avoid those halflings and paladins.

[stockwizard5]

I know many players already use these sheets (excel format) - but for those who didn't know check out

http://www.axiomfiles.com/Files/170117/eldritchdevicecrafting.xls

or our site (main page or forums).

Appreciate everyone who has provided information and feedback (including this thread) throughout the process and I continue to try capture all the data in easy to use printable formats for crafting your uber items :D

[Wulf_Ratbane]

Any red-named boss monster survives it perfectly well.

They also won't be blinded.

I think you missed the point.

If Eudimio was building a red-boss killer I assume he'd be building a two-handed, pure DPS weapon.

He obviously wasn't looking for that.

[SneakThief]

Screen shots as promised. Mat/Opp/Fire + Mat/Opp/Neg

http://www.bezverkov.com/images/ddo/ScreenShot00032.jpg

http://www.bezverkov.com/images/ddo/ScreenShot00033.jpg

http://www.bezverkov.com/images/ddo/ScreenShot00034.jpg

[SneakThief]

We tested this out in PvP ... It appears to act as the spell. 1d4 neg levels and no save. It hits often enough for me to be okay with it.

1st: 25 hits and 3 levels
2nd: First hit and 1 level
3rd: 12 hits and 2 levels
4th: First hit and 1 level
5th: 20 hits and 1 level

After that he got tired of having neg levels and went to bed. :D

[stockwizard5]

Screen shots as promised. Mat/Opp/Fire + Mat/Opp/Neg

Very nice - thank you ...

[Angelus_dead]

I think you missed the point.
If Eudimio was building a red-boss killer I assume he'd be building a two-handed, pure DPS weapon.
He obviously wasn't looking for that.
No, you missed the point.
Eudimio did did build a red-boss killer- it's called a TWF strength rogue.
Obviously he was looking for that.

[Wulf_Ratbane]

No, you missed the point.
Eudimio did did build a red-boss killer- it's called a TWF strength rogue.
Obviously he was looking for that.

Oh I see.

Perhaps you'd like to inform Eudimio that he and I are not, actually, on the same page, and that he should stop using his Hammer of the Leaden Clouds as his main weapon, and, presumably-- I mean, I'm just reading his actual words here-- spamming Stunning Blow on red named bosses.

You think I misread his intentions with his build? With the weapon he's searching for?

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's not an idiot who doesn't know how to play his build and he's not wasting his time beating the new raid and collecting enough ingredients to upgrade to Smoke II-- but if you care to disagree, by all means carry on.

[Mr._Dna]

Okay, so I'm just getting to the point where I can craft my first 2 upgrades, and I was originally gonna go with +EE/+EE/+EE on an item (gloves)- you know, the typical caster thing.

Now, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to try +EE/AEE/+EE & AEE? Anyone have a guess as to what the 2nd combined effect will be? (I know the first will be chain lightning-which who cares) but just curious if anyone had tried that final combination yet...

It's not up on the wiki yet, which is what I've been going from, since it's the easiest for me to understand.

[MysticTheurge]

but just curious if anyone had tried that final combination yet...

I haven't seen anyone proclaim themselves as having made Radiance II yet.

[SneakThief]

Now, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to try +EE/AEE/+EE & AEE? Anyone have a guess as to what the 2nd combined effect will be? (I know the first will be chain lightning-which who cares) but just curious if anyone had tried that final combination yet...

It's not up on the wiki yet, which is what I've been going from, since it's the easiest for me to understand.


I haven't seen anyone proclaim themselves as having made Radiance II yet.

Um .... Pos/Air is lightning, right? ... on a weapon its Lightning Strike. The theory is on an item it would be "Lightning Strike Guard"

[MysticTheurge]

Um .... Pos/Air is lightning, right? ... on a weapon its Lightning Strike. The theory is on an item it would be "Lightning Strike Guard"

Oh lightning.

Yes. It's lightning strike.

(Radiance is pos/fire. Jeez, there's too many combinations to keep track of.)

[UtherSRG]

Catching up...


Vacuum 2: item does the vacuuming for you
Dust 2: item does the dusting for you
Steam 2: item does the ironing for you

If only there was a way to get all three at once.

Garth

2 weapons and an item. ;)


Oh lightning.

Yes. It's lightning strike.

(Radiance is pos/fire. Jeez, there's too many combinations to keep track of.)

MT.... was... wrong?? Does not compute.....

[MysticTheurge]

MT.... was... wrong?? Does not compute.....

Psh. It happens more often that most of you seem to think. :p

[Wulf_Ratbane]

Psh. It happens more often that most of you seem to think. :p

It's rare. You set the bar high.

But if you deserve any slack at all, it's certainly in the 1200+ recipes arena.

[Mr._Dna]

The theory is on an item it would be "Lightning Strike Guard"

Ok, that makes sense. Maybe I'll shoot for that, then...

[stockwizard5]

So whats the latest thinking on Existential Stalemate?

Priest would like to build something that ends in EDP ...

a) Do we think that the final upgrade MUST be EDN+EDP to make that happen?

and

b) should I have any concern starting out MEN/MEP or MEN/MOP or MON/MEP or MON/MOP?

If I have Exstential Stalemate I - I find it hard to believe that the method I choose to get it matters for ES II - after all the shard I create (the double supreme) has no knowledge of what item/weapon it is intended for.

[MysticTheurge]

If I have Exstential Stalemate I - I find it hard to believe that the method I choose to get it matters for ES II - after all the shard I create (the double supreme) has no knowledge of what item/weapon it is intended for.

It's my thinking (though it may be inaccurate) that the order of your first two upgrades (and their gems and essences) are irrelevant.

I'd guess that as long as you have Existential Stalemate, you can get Concordant Opposition.

[Borror0]

Priest would like to build something that ends in EDP ...

a) Do we think that the final upgrade MUST be EDN+EDP to make that happen?

Yes, if youvary the Essence or the Gem, it fails.


b) should I have any concern starting out MEN/MEP or MEN/MOP or MON/MEP or MON/MOP?

Nah, if one of them work, they'll all work.
Maybe, that going -/+ won't work, but that is no one has tested yet...

[Snoggy]

2 weapons and an item. ;)

Seems all those Batman Builds will soon have an Alfred the Butler Build to group with!

;)

Toss in a halfling with Heroic Companion named Robin and ...

[UtherSRG]

Seems all those Batman Builds will soon have an Alfred the Butler Build to group with!

;)

Toss in a halfling with Heroic Companion named Robin and ...

I'm glad my Robyyn's an Elf.... (see character list below...)

[Tallyn]

I haven't seen anyone proclaim themselves as having made Radiance II yet.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was Sunburst and Everbright hehe...

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

FYI for people trying to pick upgrades that aren't being worked on, I know of two people currently within a few days (tonight or tomorrow hopefully?) of getting Vacuum II and Magma II (both on items) so if you're still deciding on what to do that won't already be done then try those on a weapon or something else - Radiance has been mentioned as a suggestion...

Of course you're free to try anything you like, but it would be nice to get all the different combinations done at some point.

Garth

[EspyLacopa]

FYI for people trying to pick upgrades that aren't being worked on, I know of two people currently within a few days (tonight or tomorrow hopefully?) of getting Vacuum II and Magma II (both on items) so if you're still deciding on what to do that won't already be done then try those on a weapon or something else - Radiance has been mentioned as a suggestion...

Of course you're free to try anything you like, but it would be nice to get all the different combinations done at some point.

Garth

I anxiously await hearing what Vacuum II will do on an accessory.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Wiki Updated again with all known Tier 3 "Special" Bonuses... I think.

[DesertBlue]

Wiki Updated again with all known Tier 3 "Special" Bonuses... I think.

Hey Dworkin,

I like the site. I sent you a PM regarding some inconsistencies.


Coldest

[Eudimio]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was Sunburst and Everbright hehe...

My guess is ooze 2 would be everbright (and maybe paralyzing). But I have a lot of guesses.

[Borror0]

I like the site. I sent you a PM regarding some inconsistencies.

Dworkin, may you forward the PM to me too?

[vyvy3369]

Congrats to Jackknife on Vacuum 2 - Trap the Soul Guard.

[sheldie]

Congrats to Jackknife on Vacuum 2 - Trap the Soul Guard.

Wow :eek: Does it require gems?

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

...about to test in PVP.

Another NSR First! Congrats Jackknife!

Garth

[vyvy3369]

ROFL:

(Combat): Trapped in a gem by Trap the Soul.

DC is higher than 26 at least. He did not receive or require any sort of gems/components.

[MysticTheurge]

He did not receive or require any sort of gems/components.

This may be because PCs aren't coded to create Soul Gems.

It'd be worth testing on NPCs to see if they leave Soul Gems. If so, that's going to be a popular item.

[Auran82]

And people laughed at the suggestion that Vacuum II would suck. It does suck YOUR SOUL.

[vyvy3369]

Ironically, it also makes the hilarious sound effect of a gem hitting the floor. All in all I'm very impressed by that one. At times it was hitting quite frequently (it got 2-3 of us in a minute), and another time I went for like 5 straight minutes without dying.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Sorry it took so long - grats to Jackknife on his item - he asked me to post the screenshot on his behalf.

Here is the item: -EM AEE (AEE -EE)

http://will.phase.net/ddo/items/tier%203/Item%20-EM%20AEE%20(AEE%20-EE).jpg

And guess what we've been doing :)

http://will.phase.net/ddo/items/Effects/eartheles.jpg

ZAP!

http://will.phase.net/ddo/items/Effects/earthgem.jpg

From testing it *might* only hit once per rest - we were able to quite reliably get it to proc upon entering the quest then we would stand there and be beaten on for a long time with no proc. Using a rest shrine then make it happen again pretty quick. Seems like this could be a bug...? Also - it wasn't hitting CR9 earth eles - only CR7 eles, so this might imply that it's only the 20HD version of the spell.

Still - quite cool! :)

Garth

[mudfud]

That right there could possibly be the replacement for khyber shard hunting and wizard hunting to cast it.
Congrats Jack, could be even more popular now on Sarlona for that Adamantine Ritual.!



Sorry it took so long - grats to Jackknife on his item - he asked me to post the screenshot on his behalf.

Here is the item: -EM AEE (AEE -EE)

http://will.phase.net/ddo/items/tier%203/Item%20-EM%20AEE%20(AEE%20-EE).jpg

And guess what we've been doing :)

http://will.phase.net/ddo/items/Effects/eartheles.jpg

ZAP!

http://will.phase.net/ddo/items/Effects/earthgem.jpg

From testing it *might* only hit once per rest - we were able to quite reliably get it to proc upon entering the quest then we would stand there and be beaten on for a long time with no proc. Using a rest shrine then make it happen again pretty quick. Seems like this could be a bug...? Also - it wasn't hitting CR9 earth eles - only CR7 eles, so this might imply that it's only the 20HD version of the spell.

Still - quite cool! :)

Garth

p.s. Yet another NSR first! :)

[sirgog]

Congrats to Jackknife on Vacuum 2 - Trap the Soul Guard.

That sucks.

[roughdoughnut]

wow

that gem ability is sweet. goggles that turn your enemy in to jewels. you are like king midas!

[Borror0]

Ironically, it also makes the hilarious sound effect of a gem hitting the floor. All in all I'm very impressed by that one. At times it was hitting quite frequently (it got 2-3 of us in a minute), and another time I went for like 5 straight minutes without dying.


From testing it *might* only hit once per rest - we were able to quite reliably get it to proc upon entering the quest then we would stand there and be beaten on for a long time with no proc. Using a rest shrine then make it happen again pretty quick. Seems like this could be a bug...?

These two quotes are kinda contradictory, right?

PS: Thanks NSR for all the testing.:)

[Jolani]

I have to say that Trap the Soul Guard seems absolutely useless. Only 20 hd version, once per rest? For 24 large components?

[CaseStringer]

While the item in and of itself is cool... It would be alot cooler if it were the 30hd version, or both...Archmages who can cast and Trap 30hd versions are still kinda hard to come by. Would've been a nice alternative. Grats again to NeoSkullies!:D

[studentx]

Sorry it took so long - grats to Jackknife on his item - he asked me to post the screenshot on his behalf.

Here is the item: -EM AEE (AEE -EE)

Still - quite cool! :)

Garth

p.s. Yet another NSR first! :)

No kidding! You guys have had outstanding luck on your supreme shard pulls, unstoppable in your dedication to the shroud and have been very gracious in sharing your results.

Thank you!

Tasty Hams need to be sent!

[vyvy3369]

These two quotes are kinda contradictory, right?

PS: Thanks NSR for all the testing.:)
While standing in a tavern PvP pit it's hard to say - maybe he "rested" after hitting one of us and almost immediately hit another.


I have to say that Trap the Soul Guard seems absolutely useless. Only 20 hd version, once per rest? For 24 large components?
I was thinking about that last night too, and it really depends on how often it goes off. If it repeatedly goes off, it's a high DC will save insta-kill. Compare that to Slay Living guard which is a fort save, and the will save is probably going to be a lot more successful.

[Jolani]

But if it's the 20 HD version, it will only work on low CR creatures. Not even large elementals in the depths on elite could be hit with it. It's like giving us a sword of kobold slaying, sure it's sweet versus kobolds, but what level 16 runs quests often that have kobolds in it?

[MysticTheurge]

I was thinking about that last night too, and it really depends on how often it goes off. If it repeatedly goes off, it's a high DC will save insta-kill. Compare that to Slay Living guard which is a fort save, and the will save is probably going to be a lot more successful.

Not to mention that it may be the most consistent source of Soul Gems, which do seem as though they're going to be used in crafting in the future.

It may actually be easier to make a few vacuum items than it is to collect all the Khyber Dragonshard Fragments you'd need to make a comparable number of Soul Gems. :eek:


But if it's the 20 HD version, it will only work on low CR creatures. Not even large elementals in the depths on elite could be hit with it. It's like giving us a sword of kobold slaying, sure it's sweet versus kobolds, but what level 16 runs quests often that have kobolds in it?

Elementals, notably, have very high HD. I bet the 20 HD version hits more stuff in level 16 quests than you seem to imply.

[PhoenixFire31]

Well a path I am trying is Bal of Land and Sky, all Mat Dom for straight up damage on a bow. Just as long as I can pull some rotten sulfer stones.

[Wulf_Ratbane]

First off, cool item!


Not to mention that it may be the most consistent source of Soul Gems, which do seem as though they're going to be used in crafting in the future.

I does sound like it's going to play havoc with the soul gem "economy," such as it is. Seems like something needs to be adjusted.

[stockwizard5]

/removed - pm sent

[Ilandrya]

It's my thinking (though it may be inaccurate) that the order of your first two upgrades (and their gems and essences) are irrelevant.

I'd guess that as long as you have Existential Stalemate, you can get Concordant Opposition.


I would agree... for the order of focus 1 and 2 to matter, what would have to happen to make every I into a II as Eladrin has stated is possible, would be for the order in which the dual shard is placed into the altar along with the item having some bearing, which is something I proposed in theory awhile back because of the failure of BoLaS I to BoLaS II. I didn't like that idea, but it was the only way I could see at the time as to why BoLaS I failed to become a II when the shard had BoLaS on it. Although it hasn't been tested out, I doubt it to be the case now.

I think what causes a "II" is the presence of a "II" on the dual shard, with the exception of the Elemental Balances and perhaps a special "earth,air,fire,water". I suspect the reason why BoLaS II failed is that any balance of elements requires that it pass through either another element or energy to get to the opposing one. Since it "contacts" other elements/energies where all the others do not, it works differently.... I've already given theory as to what I suspect will work in upgrading BoLaS I and Tempered I to II's, so won't reiterate all that here.

I think the listing of a dominate focus is:

A) to allow us to know what focus the Altar of Devastation will use for the effects imparted by that altar
B) to narrow down what is possible at the Altar of Devastation when using a dual shard so that one may have to make a choice at times as to which is more important to them to have... the 4 focus enchantment or the Altar of Devastation effects (I agree... can't remember who suggested it atm.... that it would be nice to have some kind of end chest essence that would allow us to switch the dominant focus of a dual shard)


Congrats on the recent successes. On the Vacuum II... what was the dominant focus on the shard?

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Congrats on the recent successes. On the Vacuum II... what was the dominant focus on the shard?

Air was dominant over negative - this was what Jackknife wanted as he wanted +3 CHA. In fact, originally Jack was going to do Smoke II (he had already made the Smoke I item) but after we realised that Fire would probably dominate Air and he would end up with +3 INT skills (?) instead, we remade the item from scratch since he wanted the UMD... :( He still ended up with the displacement clicky though so not a real loss.

I agree it's a bit frustrating that it appears we can't pick the dominant focus at tier III - this limits the choices of people wanting certain tier 3 bonus effect combinations with certain tier 3 effects - perhaps there is a way of chosing the dominant focus that we haven't discovered yet (unlikely).

Garth

[Justicesar]

Im thinking of a **** Guard item for my tank. I have seen the AEE/AEE/AEE air guard goggles but wondered if there is a way to get this another way??? Is it only important that Air is there throughout the upgrades?? Also looking at the pure water guard as well for extra dps. Any other tank out there running a guard item of some type that is not dual shards at the last altar??

[stockwizard5]

Did not see these on Will's list (sorry if repeats)

EEA/EEE/EEA+EEE (I) = Failed BoLaS II
MON/EEP/EEP+MON (I) = Failed ES II
EEN/EEA/EEN+EEA (I) = Vacuum II
MEW/MEF/MEF+MEW (I) = Failed T II

[UtherSRG]

Im thinking of a **** Guard item for my tank. I have seen the AEE/AEE/AEE air guard goggles but wondered if there is a way to get this another way??? Is it only important that Air is there throughout the upgrades?? Also looking at the pure water guard as well for extra dps. Any other tank out there running a guard item of some type that is not dual shards at the last altar??

Yes, there are many ways to get a X Guard on an item besides AEE/AEE/AEE. If you want an Air Guard item, then all you have to do is keep the focus as Air for all 3 upgrades.

A/A/A = Air Guard
F/F/F = ??
W/W/W = Crushing Wave Guard
E/E/E = Good Guard (unlisted on item)
P/P/P = Gr. Disruption Guard
N/N/N = Slay Living Guard

The essence and gem do not matter if all you are concerned with is going pure on your focus.

For instance, going WDM/WDM/WDM would give you +45 hp (stacks with all other hp gain items), +6 STR skills, 3 clickies of Panacea, and Crushing Wave Guard. Not bad for a tank.

[UtherSRG]

Did not see these on Will's list (sorry if repeats)

EEA/EEE/EEA+EEE (I) = Failed BoLaS II
MON/EEP/EEP+MON (I) = Failed ES II
EEN/EEA/EEN+EEA (I) = Vacuum II
MEW/MEF/MEF+MEW (I) = Failed T II

Still waiting for someone to do:

BoLaS I + Tempered shard
Tempered I + BoLaS shard

[Zaodon]

Did not see these on Will's list (sorry if repeats)

MEW/MEF/MEF+MEW (I) = Failed T II

Unaware that anyone has even tried this.

Got a link handy?

[Kargon]

My guess is ooze 2 would be everbright (and maybe paralyzing). But I have a lot of guesses.

Kargon hoping for 'cast grease on hit' personamallly, maybe kargon make ooze II weapamon next...

[UtherSRG]

Im thinking of a **** Guard item for my tank. I have seen the AEE/AEE/AEE air guard goggles but wondered if there is a way to get this another way??? Is it only important that Air is there throughout the upgrades?? Also looking at the pure water guard as well for extra dps. Any other tank out there running a guard item of some type that is not dual shards at the last altar??


Yes, there are many ways to get a X Guard on an item besides AEE/AEE/AEE. If you want an Air Guard item, then all you have to do is keep the focus as Air for all 3 upgrades.

A/A/A = Air Guard
F/F/F = ??
W/W/W = Crushing Wave Guard
E/E/E = Good Guard (unlisted on item)
P/P/P = Gr. Disruption Guard
N/N/N = Slay Living Guard

The essence and gem do not matter if all you are concerned with is going pure on your focus.

For instance, going WDM/WDM/WDM would give you +45 hp (stacks with all other hp gain items), +6 STR skills, 3 clickies of Panacea, and Crushing Wave Guard. Not bad for a tank.

Addendum: Do note that there is no dps benefit from these. +6 STR skills is a boost to the skills that come from STR: Swim, Jump, etc. It is NOT a +6 to STR, so it is NOT a +3 to attack bonus or to damage.

[Ilandrya]

Does anyone happen to know what the tick rate is on stabilization rolls while incapped?

I'm trying to determine whether or not hp regen on a green steel item will be useful for my Cleric when incapped and no one can heal me back up to resume my healing duties. If the rate of the stabilization roll is greater than the tick on the regen, I'd really have no reason to use it. Also, knowing the rate would allow me to know which level of regen minimum I'd have to use.

Thanks...

[UtherSRG]

Kargon hoping for 'cast grease on hit' personamallly, maybe kargon make ooze II weapamon next...

LOL! That would be hilarious... especially on a Warforged.

"Hey Tin Man.... you're leaking again!" :p:D

[UtherSRG]

Does anyone happen to know what the tick rate is on stabilization rolls while incapped?

I'm trying to determine whether or not hp regen on a green steel item will be useful for my Cleric when incapped and no one can heal me back up to resume my healing duties. If the rate of the stabilization roll is greater than the tick on the regen, I'd really have no reason to use it. Also, knowing the rate would allow me to know which level of regen minimum I'd have to use.

Thanks...


Hrm...... if the devs coded it right, then regen of any kind should auto-stabilize you. But I don't think they did that. Or am I thinking wrong in that it should do this at all?

[stockwizard5]

Thinking Priest might try MEF/EEW/EEE+EEA Thursday if we still don't know (**** timers).

Not a great item so I hope someone beats me to it - if not it better be an extra-awesome effect.

[Wulf_Ratbane]

Does anyone happen to know what the tick rate is on stabilization rolls while incapped?

I'm trying to determine whether or not hp regen on a green steel item will be useful for my Cleric when incapped and no one can heal me back up to resume my healing duties. If the rate of the stabilization roll is greater than the tick on the regen, I'd really have no reason to use it. Also, knowing the rate would allow me to know which level of regen minimum I'd have to use.

Thanks...

I'm not sure exactly what the rate is, but I have a hard time believing that the regen rate will be anywhere close to the bleed rate. The bleed rate is faster than any of the regen rates I have seen (so far). The bleed rate is certainly faster than 1 hp/30 second (Tier II Regneration).

However:

You really only need 1 point of healing to stabilize. So the question is, how far negative did you drop, and can you get 1 tick of regen before you hit -10.

If I had to guess-- and assuming that DDO follows PnP is always a bad guess...-- I'd put the bleed rate at -1/6 seconds.

The seconds sure have a way of dragging out when you're lying flat on your back. I was out due to a Greater Command last night for 1 minute and 55 seconds while that **** named bezekira mauled my ass. Seemed like an eternity of failed saves...

[Borror0]

Not a great item so I hope someone beats me to it.

A not so great item for a not so great looking cleric.;) (Sorry Mael, but your cleric's got to be the ugliest female dwarven cleric ever. Borror rolls a fort save everytime he sees her. You should have rerolled her another time...:D)

[UtherSRG]

Thinking Priest might try MEF/EEW/EEE+EEA Thursday if we still don't know (**** timers).

Not a great item so I hope someone beats me to it - if not it better be an extra-awesome effect.

+1 Dex skill, +10 hp, +50 sp, + 2 Wis skill, +100 sp, and +3 Cha or Wis skills, depending on the focus dominance..... not great, but not terrible. Plus Tempered.

[SneakThief]

I agree it's a bit frustrating that it appears we can't pick the dominant focus at tier III - this limits the choices of people wanting certain tier 3 bonus effect combinations with certain tier 3 effects - perhaps there is a way of chosing the dominant focus that we haven't discovered yet (unlikely).

Garth
Yeah ... for this one reason Im going single shard and not the dual shard upgrage on my cleric's neg/pos helmet. I want the INT skills (not CHA), and 1% chance of SP or HP is not worth another 12 ingredients.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Does anyone happen to know what the tick rate is on stabilization rolls while incapped?

I'm trying to determine whether or not hp regen on a green steel item will be useful for my Cleric when incapped and no one can heal me back up to resume my healing duties. If the rate of the stabilization roll is greater than the tick on the regen, I'd really have no reason to use it. Also, knowing the rate would allow me to know which level of regen minimum I'd have to use.

Thanks...

Probably cheaper to buy all your party members Aid clickies than invest in 12+ ingredients :)

Garth

[stockwizard5]

+1 Dex skill, +10 hp, +50 sp, + 2 Wis skill, +100 sp, and +3 Cha or Wis skills, depending on the focus dominance..... not great, but not terrible. Plus Tempered.

Already have the EEE/EEE/EEE SP Goggles ...

This would be +6 DEX (+3 Reflex = um 3) and +3 WIS (SP) + Tempered (BB Conc) + BoaTLoAdS II = Fiend Use Only (maybe)

[Ilandrya]

Probably cheaper to buy all your party members Aid clickies than invest in 12+ ingredients :)

Garth

LOL. Yeah except I usually pug it for a number of reasons... I gave up on guilds awhile back since the ones I have been in either folded/had extremely low membership due to eventual inactivity as people left the game, or because of all the infighting... I'm now in a one person guild of my own creation simply because I was getting a ton of guild invites when I wasn't guilded, and I don't like to have to tell people no. I have always tended to run more pugs than guild groups anyway because of the need for Clerics on my server, which is also a part of why I tend to play Ilandrya exclusively... outside of my aforementioned "lowbie-itis". I have plenty of small and mediums waiting for an essence of cleansing to become useful, it's the large that are a problem atm... don't need to go with a dual shard to get regen (or anything past medium ingredients, depending on the stabilization tick rate) though. When I run with people who have been in other guilds with me, it's not a problem, but in pugs I'm not familiar with, incaps happen and at times no one can heal me up.

A side note: Heroism clickies also work on Clerics to get them back up and so do the eternal healing wands that any class can use... offhand, I think they are two cmw/rest.

[smithers]

I'm not sure exactly what the rate is, but I have a hard time believing that the regen rate will be anywhere close to the bleed rate. The bleed rate is faster than any of the regen rates I have seen (so far). The bleed rate is certainly faster than 1 hp/30 second (Tier II Regneration).

However:

You really only need 1 point of healing to stabilize. So the question is, how far negative did you drop, and can you get 1 tick of regen before you hit -10.

If I had to guess-- and assuming that DDO follows PnP is always a bad guess...-- I'd put the bleed rate at -1/6 seconds.

The seconds sure have a way of dragging out when you're lying flat on your back. I was out due to a Greater Command last night for 1 minute and 55 seconds while that **** named bezekira mauled my ass. Seemed like an eternity of failed saves...


My fighter Saigo wears goggles with improved regen and this is what I found:

The regen is slow, but 1 point will indeed autostabilize you.
On two occasions, my fighter failed two stabilize checks before improved regen kicked in. It could vary, since it is running its own timer but, but if you don't go under -7 you should be coming back up with these. That's when you run like *%$&*

(If you are curious I also took improved acid res and stoneskin clicky on the goggles, and I am very happy with them)

[LeLoric]

Yeah ... for this one reason Im going single shard and not the dual shard upgrage on my cleric's neg/pos helmet. I want the INT skills (not CHA), and 1% chance of SP or HP is not worth another 12 ingredients.

It's actually about 1/10 that the goggles go off or 10% as I posted previously

[Zaodon]

It's actually about 1/10 that the goggles go off or 10% as I posted previously

Observer error. The Devs have stated its 1% for each, or a global 1/50 (2%) chance of some sort of proc happening.

[MysticTheurge]

It's actually about 1/10 that the goggles go off or 10% as I posted previously

Then there's a typo somewhere. Either in DG's post on the topic, or in the table that tells it how often to proc.


It's a 1% chance to gain HP, and a separate roll for a 1% chance to gain SP.

So, you do have a 1 in ten thousand chance to get HP+SP on the same hit :)

[Ilandrya]

It's actually about 1/10 that the goggles go off or 10% as I posted previously

You've been lucky on your rolls, or it's not working as intended.

A dev has stated that you get a roll for 1% chance of hp and a separate roll for another 1% chance for sp. A dev has also stated that if you use more than one item with concordant opposition on it, they "stack" in that you will get another two rolls... 1% each for hp and sp.

[tihocan]

A dev has also stated that if you use more than one item with concordant opposition on it, they "stack" in that you will get another two rolls... 1% each for hp and sp.
Do you remember who said that?

[Zaodon]

You've been lucky on your rolls, or it's not working as intended.

A dev has stated that you get a roll for 1% chance of hp and a separate roll for another 1% chance for sp. A dev has also stated that if you use more than one item with concordant opposition on it, they "stack" in that you will get another two rolls... 1% each for hp and sp.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c53/RPGamerd00d/Funny_baby_ORly.gif

Hmmm....

Two weapons:
1) Holy, Heightened Awareneness 2, Good Blast (Concordant Opposition)
2) +6 Str, Good Burst, Good Blast (Concordant Opposition)
Item) +4 Con Skills, +2 Str skills, +45 HPs (Concordant Opposition)

Total: ~1 in 16 that *something* procs.

[MysticTheurge]

Do you remember who said that?

Actually what Eladrin said was:


A 5% proc rate would be extremely imbalancing if you wore eight of them.

But he followed that with:


I'm actually not 100% certain on the stacking nature of Concordant Opposition, as Piloto created it, not me.

[tihocan]

I know it's not a new idea but it seems like it's being forgotten a bit, so I'll bring it up again:

The dominant focus theory looks right, even if we don't have the whole order yet, it seems unlikely to be disproved at this point.
However, we still don't know what exactly can vary when combining two shards of supreme power. It's safe enough to assume we cannot vary both the gem and essence, since someone got a failure trying to do so. But it would be interesting to check what happens when varying only the essence (or gem). I'd try with the essence first, because it *might* be the way to control the dominant focus (for instance, there could be a rule that when the essences are different, then the focus order is reversed compared to when the essences are the same, which would allow us to really pick the bonuses we want).

Now, I'm on it, but it will probably take a few months before I get 24 large ingredients. So feel free to beat me to it ;)

[tihocan]

Actually (...)
Thanks, it's what I remembered, I was wondering if I had missed something.

[Zaodon]

deleted dumb idea

[tihocan]

*deleted since Z deleted it as well*

[MysticTheurge]

*didn't post anything in the first place*







;) :D

[Zaodon]

However, we still don't know what exactly can vary when combining two shards of supreme power. It's safe enough to assume we cannot vary both the gem and essence, since someone got a failure trying to do so. But it would be interesting to check what happens when varying only the essence (or gem). I'd try with the essence first, because it *might* be the way to control the dominant focus (for instance, there could be a rule that when the essences are different, then the focus order is reversed compared to when the essences are the same, which would allow us to really pick the bonuses we want).


Known successes:
1. Ethereal Positive Escalation + Ethereal Negative Escalation = Ethereal Positive Escalation / Existential Stalemate
2. Ethereal Positive Escalation + Ethereal Earth Escalation = Ethereal Earth Escalation / Mineral

The bolded ones match Essence and Gem, yet the first entry has 1st Focus dominant, the second entry has 2nd Focus dominant.

[tihocan]

Zaodon, maybe it's my fault using the wrong terms, but it's not what I'm talking about, I'm pretty convinced the shard order is irrelevant.
By "dominant focus theory" I mean that Fire > Air, Air > Positive, etc. where ">" means it will be the focus used on the combined shard. If it's not how the theory is called then sorry about that, now hopefully it's clearer :)

[Zaodon]

Zaodon, maybe it's my fault using the wrong terms, but it's not what I'm talking about, I'm pretty convinced the shard order is irrelevant.
By "dominant focus theory" I mean that Fire > Air, Air > Positive, etc. where ">" means it will be the focus used on the combined shard. If it's not how the theory is called then sorry about that, now hopefully it's clearer :)

Yes, but you wanted to experiment by swapping either the essences or gems to see if the order switches, right?

Well, I showed that order switched with identical essences and gems, which kinda shoots your theory down. Or am I missing something?

[Shima-ra]

Stabilisation roll happens every 6 seconds, (once per round).
So if you are incaped at -1, chances are you'll get back up with a 1/min regen, the worst kinda regen.
The best regens, like the jerky, tick every 6 seconds to make sure you get back up.

Regeneration is really a proof-against-incap, since even the best regens wont keep you healed in a fight.

[tihocan]

Yes, but you wanted to experiment by swapping either the essences or gems to see if the order switches, right?

Well, I showed that order switched with identical essences and gems, which kinda shoots your theory down. Or am I missing something?
By "order switching" I meant that we might have Air > Fire instead of Fire > Air. I wasn't talking about the order on the altar (assumed to be irrelevant until proven otherwise).

[Zaodon]

By "order switching" I meant that we might have Air > Fire instead of Fire > Air. I wasn't talking about the order on the altar.

I know, and I disproved that with the quote above.

If your theory was true, then the order would not have changed between my two examples, because the essences were the same and the gems were the same. Yet, in case 1, Pos dominated Neg. In case 2, Pos was dominated by Earth. If your theory was right, this couldn't have happened.

Plus, someone posted that you cannot even make a supershard unless the essences match. i.e. Material+Material, or Ethereal+Ethereal. So, the only thing you could even try to alter would be Gem (Opposition, Domination, Escalation).

[Gratch]

Just made these for my fleshy clerk. Mostly it combines 3 items down to 1.
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/498/goggleshh9.jpg
Think I'm going to go for a super DPS maul next with the larges I've been collecting:
1: EDM: Acid
2: PDM: Good Burst
3: {E+P}DM: Acid Blast
Tier 2 Bonus: Mineral 1: SSkin 2/day
Tier 3 Bonus: Mineral 2: Slicing, Keen, Transmuting

-Will this work?
-Did good burst get fixed?
-Earth still trumps positive in supreme shard land?
-Devils and pit fiends have Resist 10/acid according to the SRD... so against him, only the acid crit fx (no base acid damage) might get through... and only on normal (I'm guessing his resistances go up)...
-The devs said they never put acid burst into the random tables as acid was unresisted by so many mobs. Obviously our new LE vale friends tip that scale a little... but are there any other downsides to acid damage vs. the other elemental effects that I'm missing?
-Can I borrow like 15 Large from someone? :)

[tihocan]

I know, and I disproved that with the quote above.

If your theory was true, then the order would not have changed between my two examples, because the essences were the same and the gems were the same. Yet, in case 1, Pos dominated Neg. In case 2, Pos was dominated by Earth. If your theory was right, this couldn't have happened.
Hmm no, you just have Earth > Pos > Neg.


Plus, someone posted that you cannot even make a supershard unless the essences match. i.e. Material+Material, or Ethereal+Ethereal.
I thought I read this thread carefully enough and I don't remember that one. All I remember is:
- someone posting the failure +EE / -OM
- someone having a theory about how the same essence had to be used at tiers 1 & 2, which was eventually disproved

[Zaodon]

Think I'm going to go for a super DPS maul next with the larges I've been collecting:
1: EDM: Acid
2: PDM: Good Burst
3: {E+P}DM: Acid Blast
Tier 2 Bonus: Mineral 1: SSkin 2/day
Tier 3 Bonus: Mineral 2: Slicing, Keen, Transmuting

-Will this work?
-Did good burst get fixed?
-Earth still trumps positive in supreme shard land?
-Devils and pit fiends have Resist 10/acid according to the SRD... so against him, only the acid crit fx (no base acid damage) might get through... and only on normal (I'm guessing his resistances go up)...
-The devs said they never put acid burst into the random tables as acid was unresisted by so many mobs. Obviously our new LE vale friends tip that scale a little... but are there any other downsides to acid damage vs. the other elemental effects that I'm missing?
-Can I borrow like 15 Large from someone? :)

Its a good weapon. Transmuting bypasses all DR anyway, so their Acid Resist won't affect it too much.

I plan on doing the exact same with a greatsword.

[tihocan]

Transmuting bypasses all DR anyway, so their Acid DR is meaningless.
It's not, because it's not "Acid DR", it's "acid resistance", which is entirely separate from DR, and thus not affected by transmuting.

[Zaodon]

I thought I read this thread carefully enough and I don't remember that one. All I remember is:
- someone posting the failure +EE / -OM
- someone having a theory about how the same essence had to be used at tiers 1 & 2, which was eventually disproved


http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1604150&postcount=2300


I recently tried Neg Opp Material/Pos Esc Ethereal/(Pos Esc Ethereal/Neg Opp Material). i was able to make the Supreme +EE and the Supreme -OM. I tried to combine the 2 with an energy cell and it failed. My next attempt will be to make a -EE supreme shard, which i know will combine into the final Shard but im not sure whether the final combination will result in concordant opposotion. Just to add more information, i tried it twice swapping the order pos/neg/cell then neg/pos/cell.

He was unable to even combine Material + Ethereal into a supershard.

[MysticTheurge]

He was unable to even combine Material + Ethereal into a supershard.

No. He was unable to combine Negative/Opposition/Material and Positive/Escalation/Ethereal into the same shard.

As yet, there's no way to know what out of those things is making it not work. It could be:

A) Conflicting Essences
B) Conflicting Gems
C) Conflicting Gems and Essences
D) Conflicting Gems or Essences
E) Some other more complicated combination (i.e. you can't do Neg/Mat Pos/Eth but you can do Neg/Eth Pos/Mat)

Sure it seems likely that the answer is D (that is, you have to have the same gem and the same essence) but we just don't know yet for sure.

[Gratch]

Tier 3 Bonus: Mineral 2: Slicing, Keen, Transmuting


Heh...actually on a maul... I'd guess keen becomes impact... same effect. I wonder if Slicing becomes Weighted? Or something else. Has someone mineral 2'ed a blunt?

[Falcion]

Did not see these on Will's list (sorry if repeats)

EEA/EEE/EEA+EEE (I) = Failed BoLaS II
MON/EEP/EEP+MON (I) = Failed ES II
EEN/EEA/EEN+EEA (I) = Vacuum II
MEW/MEF/MEF+MEW (I) = Failed T II

I am unaware of anyone trying: MEW/MEF/MEF+MEW (I) = with an actual Failed Tempered II
If this is true I am definitly signing up for the water/Fire & Air/Earth theory but I'd still like to see the screen shot of this fail.

I'm also unaware of anyone trying: MON/EEP/EEP+MON (I) = as a Failed ES II
Are you sure this was a failure or just a fail that the EEP Shard would not combine with the MON shard. I have seen this posted.
I don't think I've actually seen any ES II failure yet.

I really appreciate those that have been posting information to this thread as it has helped my crafting immensely and hope to share my knowledge when I get to my 24 large ingredients. And know that succeed or fail I'll send an image of it. To those of you stating things are passing / failing w/o images I'm sorry but I don't put any credence behind it without a screen shot. I really like Ink's spread sheet for this reason he dosn't change anything from purple color without a screen shot. These fails as stated above I have not witnessed screen shots of and I may be going blind going through 2637 posts but I have not seen them.

[Kargon]

Aspect of Lightining II - (Lightning Strike) - 5% of 600+ Damage
[COLOR=wheat]- Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Warhammer of Lightning (Kargon (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1603950&postcount=2255)) !Wow 600+ Damage from Lightning Strike!

Pssst... definatamally closermer to 1% than 5% for silly lightnaming strike.... in fact kargon are 99% sure that it happamen only 1% of the time ;)

[Shima-ra]

I think all effects happen 2% of the time.
And we know from the devs that dual effects, like air guard and concordant opposition, happen at 1% each.

[Angelus_dead]

And we know from the devs that dual effects, like air guard and concordant opposition, happen at 1% each.
No, they have not said that. Air guard very clearly trigger much more than 1% of the time.

[skurlock]

Been trying to follow this thread as time permits and have tried to keep up with what's what. However, if one of the "crafting experts" can check this out to see if I'm understanding things correctly I'd appreciate it.

My plan is to go EEE + PEE on a greenweave item:

Tier 1: EEE
Wizardry VI
+1 to WIS Skills

Tier 2: PEE
+50 Spell Points
+2 CHA Skills

Tier 2 Bonus: Aspect of Mineral
Stoneskin *2

Tier 3: Combined Imbued Shard EEE + PEE (Mineral II)
Heavy Fortification
+5 Protection

Please let me know if that looks correct or not.

[LeLoric]

Well back to testing we ran 200 swings at ten swings a time. One set had two procs and 2 sets had no procs all the others were 1 every 10 swings. Now if I had done 20 swings and declared 10% proc chance sure i may be way off, but I do feel we had a pretty large test to avoid lucky rolls. I am not disputing that a dev had said that but also I am pointing out that statistical evidence seems to say otherwise whether coded differently or not.

Also testing on Crushing Wave Guard was well above 2% on the tests we did with it (probably around 5%). Anyone with an item wanna test it and comes up with different results thats fine but untill I see otherwise, I really am not buying the 2% or 1 and 1 as the evidence shows otherwise.

[edana]

Well back to testing we ran 200 swings at ten swings a time. One set had two procs and 2 sets had no procs all the others were 1 every 10 swings. Now if I had done 20 swings and declared 10% proc chance sure i may be way off, but I do feel we had a pretty large test to avoid lucky rolls. I am not disputing that a dev had said that but also I am pointing out that statistical evidence seems to say otherwise whether coded differently or not.

Also testing on Crushing Wave Guard was well above 2% on the tests we did with it (probably around 5%). Anyone with an item wanna test it and comes up with different results thats fine but untill I see otherwise, I really am not buying the 2% or 1 and 1 as the evidence shows otherwise.

I post a question about Concordant Opposition did not give SP AND HP on the same hit (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=138973), i never question about the proc, why? cos from our ACTUAL test result with leloric all i can say is i am really happy the proc i am getting. i wasnt planning on posting this to get into an argument, i know what i got. but i think it be better to let ppl know the ACTUAL Proc is way more then 1%, so ppl have options, after all it does take long time to craft any item, no matter which path you decide to go with.

[maddmatt70]

I think all effects happen 2% of the time.
And we know from the devs that dual effects, like air guard and concordant opposition, happen at 1% each.

They only commented on concordant opposition, but not any other effects..

[mrtreats]

Has anyone tried to make a Aspect-Aligned (or dual-affinity) at the first 2 altars or tried to make one at the last alter with 2 air ?

Also these make +5 Protection, Heavy Fortification but will the sp stack

+100 Spell Points, +3 Wisdom Skills (Exceptional Bonus) Earth Escalation Ethereal
+100 Spell Points, +3 Charisma Skills (Exceptional Bonus) Positive Escalation Ethereal

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

From testing it *might* only hit once per rest - we were able to quite reliably get it to proc upon entering the quest then we would stand there and be beaten on for a long time with no proc. Using a rest shrine then make it happen again pretty quick. Seems like this could be a bug...? Also - it wasn't hitting CR9 earth eles - only CR7 eles, so this might imply that it's only the 20HD version of the spell.

We did a bit more testing this evening. It doesn't hit 'only once per rest', and we got it to proc on 3 CR15 mobs in the vale (2xgiant, 1xlawful outsider). Not sure how many hit dice that makes it capable of... All 3 dropped soul gems (giant ones smell like cheese)

It still seems to hit very very rarely though... (1%?)

Garth

[PhoenixFire31]

This is my first GS bow. I am going pure damage on it and have not decided on trying for tier 3 as I have been pugging most of this and have 0 large ingredients atm. Hopefully one of you will discover BoLaS 2 before I get enough to attempt this. *prays earth is dominant for the acid blast* :D

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r66/Kivari/ScreenShot00032.jpg

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

This is my first GS bow. I am going pure damage on it and have not decided on trying for tier 3 as I have been pugging most of this and have 0 large ingredients atm. Hopefully one of you will discover BoLaS 2 before I get enough to attempt this. *prays earth is dominant for the acid blast* :D

BoLaS + BoLaS has been proven not to work so you'll probably be better adding Fire and Water to get 'all the elements in one' effect - and in that case, we know that Fire dominates Water so you'll end up with Fire Blast (assuming you do material/dominion) and 'Mystery Elemental Effect'...

Garth

[Borror0]

BoLaS + BoLaS has been proven not to work

I'd like to point out that this is not totally true, at least to me.

I think that there is a BoLaS II, simpyl that the recipe used wasn't the right one, whatever made it fail.

[Shima-ra]

The only item I witnessed in game was the slay living bow, I was with Roda when he tested it, and it was pretty boring to wait for that rare pumpkin.
That one certainly doesnt fire off more then 2% of the time. (not to mention that mobs save)

[Raidon]

I'd like to point out that this is not totally true, at least to me.

I think that there is a BoLaS II, simpyl that the recipe used wasn't the right one, whatever made it fail.

Bolas II does not require a Bolas shard - This has been confirmed.

[EspyLacopa]

Bolas II does not require a Bolas shard - This has been confirmed.
Really? Where?

[Borror0]

Bolas II does not require a Bolas shard - This has been confirmed.

How, when, by who?

[Mavnimo]

just to confirm -OM tier 1, +EE tier 2, +EE/-EE tier 3

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/Mavnimo/Stalemate2.jpg

i still have a -OM supreme shard from the earlier failed attempt that i might try +OM with it to see if a different stalemate bonus is made

[MrCow]

we got it to proc on 3 CR15 mobs in the vale (2xgiant, 1xlawful outsider). Not sure how many hit dice that makes it capable of...

Most of the things in the vale that are non-animal and non-elemental have a HD that is the exact same as their CR. It sounds like the HD cap is 20 HD.

[Shrazkil]

Forgive me if this has been said, as i tend to look mainly for finished items, and posts following them, but as for the dominant sphere theory. Has it been discussed that with the aspect 2 upgrades, the dominant is always whichever element you did your first upgrade with, or the second upgrade with, just wondering if its posible that they follow this rule so far.

[Angelus_dead]

We did a bit more testing this evening. It doesn't hit 'only once per rest', and we got it to proc on 3 CR15 mobs in the vale (2xgiant, 1xlawful outsider). Not sure how many hit dice that makes it capable of...
It seems to be 20 HD. Giants and outsiders have about HD = CR. Elementals, zombies, and skeletons have HD = 2CR.

[Boulderun]

Forgive me if this has been said, as i tend to look mainly for finished items, and posts following them, but as for the dominant sphere theory. Has it been discussed that with the aspect 2 upgrades, the dominant is always whichever element you did your first upgrade with, or the second upgrade with, just wondering if its posible that they follow this rule so far.

It has nothing to do with what enchantments are on your green steel item, as the dominance is determined when the supreme shards are combined. The item/weapon is not involved in that formula.

[gpk]

FYI I'm told a mineral 2 maul is Impact and still slicing if some ppl were unsure, and Acid (blast) will supercede Positive for tier3.
Maybe mr. i-don't-displace-rangers will post a pic :rolleyes:

[Ilandrya]

Do you remember who said that?

I found it here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=138973

What MysticTheurge states is correct.

With regard to Eladrin's first post on this thread, I stated what I inferred from the post rather than what he stated, so... my bad. When I read this thread, the second posting of Eladrin's hadn't been added yet.




Really? Where?

How, when, by who?

Willphase is correct... at some point earlier in this thread, someone attempted to upgrade BoLaS I to Bolas II using a shard with BoLaS on it, and it failed to upgrade to II. I really don't want to spend an hour going back through this thread to find it though, but you are welcome to do so. (Why it failed has been a primary concern in my theorizations, as well as how a dual shard picks it's dominate focus, because the two previous theories on how it is determined failed. I came up with this idea a couple days ago (edited my two relevant posts into one):

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1607388&postcount=2520

So far, my theory on how the dominate focus is selected in a dual shard holds correct... neg defaults to pos, all energies always default to an elemental, and an elemental defaults to another elemental based upon the pattern of the clockwise flow of the elemental current.

This post also offers two possibiltites to get BoLaS/Tempered I to BoLaS/Tempered II, and would explain why BoLaS I failed to upgrade to II. I personally favor the pos/neg shard possiblity of the two. Still waiting for someone who is able to do so to test them.... I'd do so myself if I had the ingredients. :) )

[Borror0]

Willphase is correct...

You mean Raidon, right? If so, Raidon is incorrect.

Like I said, it was proven that one path to BoLaS II failed, period. It'll be confirmed only when Eladrin takes us in pity and tells us that there is no way to go BoLas I and get BoLaS II or that testing is pushed further to prove that there are no path to BoLaS II. Until then, it remains possible.

[Ilandrya]

Like I said, it was proven that one path to BoLaS II failed, period.


No one is arguing that. No one is stating that it is not possible to get BoLaS II, and in fact, Eladrin has stated that all I's can become a II. All Willphase is stating, in essence, is that a shard with BoLaS on it when combined with an item that had BoLaS on it did not become BoLaS II.

From what we know in testing, gem and essence has no bearing on the creation of an aspect/balance... only focuses do. There is a way to make BoLaS II, it just isn't with a shard with BoLaS on it.



You mean Raidon, right? If so, Raidon is incorrect.

I was referring to Willphase http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1611832&postcount=2649
but you can use Raidon if you prefer http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1611869&postcount=2652

[Borror0]

I really don't want to spend an hour going back through this thread to find it though, but you are welcome to do so.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1602177&postcount=2131

Took me 30 seconds.:D


No one is arguing that. No one is stating that it is not possible to get BoLaS II, and in fact, Eladrin has stated that all I's can become a II. All Willphase is stating is that a shard with BoLaS on it when combined with an item that had BoLaS on it did not become BoLaS II. From what we know in testing thus far, the only way to make a dual shard combine successfully is by using the same gem and essence in both, so given that the only things that can vary in a dual shard are the focus, and there is only one way to make a BoLaS shard, he is correct.

You mean Raidon again, right?

[UtherSRG]

Has anyone tried to make a Aspect-Aligned (or dual-affinity) at the first 2 altars or tried to make one at the last alter with 2 air ?

Also these make +5 Protection, Heavy Fortification but will the sp stack

+100 Spell Points, +3 Wisdom Skills (Exceptional Bonus) Earth Escalation Ethereal
+100 Spell Points, +3 Charisma Skills (Exceptional Bonus) Positive Escalation Ethereal

Heya guildie!

Only on tier 3 can shards be combined. This has been said by the devs.

In case no one has answered you, no. not only will they not stack, but you will only get one or the other of +3 Wis skills and +3 Cha skills. The combined shard will take only one focus (Earth in this case, because in dominates Positive). Your 3rd tier upgrade will be +100 sp, +3 Wisdom skills, and Mineral II bonuses.

[UtherSRG]

No one is arguing that. No one is stating that it is not possible to get BoLaS II, and in fact, Eladrin has stated that all I's can become a II. All Willphase is stating, in essence, is that a shard with BoLaS on it when combined with an item that had BoLaS on it did not become BoLaS II.

From what we know in testing, gem and essence has no bearing on the creation of an aspect/balance... only focuses do. There is a way to make BoLaS II, it just isn't with a shard with BoLaS on it.




I was referring to Willphase http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1611832&postcount=2649
but you can use Raidon if you prefer http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1611869&postcount=2652

No, Eladrin said all tier 2 upgrades can get a tier 3 bonus upgrade. He didn't say that every tier 2 has a unique tier 3 bonus upgrade. The following is entirely fitting within the hints:

BoLaS I + BoLaS shard = failure
BoLas I + Tempered shard = success
Tempered I + Tempered shard = failure
Tempered I + BoLaS shard = success

[UtherSRG]

No one is arguing that. No one is stating that it is not possible to get BoLaS II, and in fact, Eladrin has stated that all I's can become a II. All Willphase is stating, in essence, is that a shard with BoLaS on it when combined with an item that had BoLaS on it did not become BoLaS II.

From what we know in testing, gem and essence has no bearing on the creation of an aspect/balance... only focuses do. There is a way to make BoLaS II, it just isn't with a shard with BoLaS on it.




I was referring to Willphase http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1611832&postcount=2649
but you can use Raidon if you prefer http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1611869&postcount=2652

No, what Eladrin said is that each tier 2 upgrade has a path to a tier 3 bonus. He did not say that each tier 2 upgrade has a unique tier 3 bonus. The following is entirely fitting within Eladrin's hints:

BoLaS I + BoLaS shard = no bonus
BoLaS I + Tempered shard = bonus
Tempered I + Tempered shard = no bonus
Tempered I + BoLaS shard = bonus

In fact, we've seen both of the two "no bonus" formulae used. It's time to move on and do the other two. I have neither a BoLaS I or a Tempered I item or weapon, so I'm of no use to finding what those formulae create.

[Wulf_Ratbane]

FYI I'm told a mineral 2 maul is Impact and still slicing if some ppl were unsure, and Acid (blast) will supercede Positive for tier3.
Maybe mr. i-don't-displace-rangers will post a pic :rolleyes:

Sweet! I was hoping that would be the case. Saves me a feat at 15th.

[Wulf_Ratbane]

Found this scouring today's Dev notes:

Ten Ton Hammer: Is crafting scheduled for Module 7?

Kate: Yeah, we’re going to be doing some more improvements to the crafting system. Basically for Module 7, players will begin to be able to start deconstructing items and collecting ingredients. It’s a really, really big system and we don’t know how much we’re going to be able to get out in Module 7, but there will definitely be more coming in Module 8.

From here:
http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/28638

[Raidon]

You mean Raidon, right? If so, Raidon is incorrect.

Like I said, it was proven that one path to BoLaS II failed, period. It'll be confirmed only when Eladrin takes us in pity and tells us that there is no way to go BoLas I and get BoLaS II or that testing is pushed further to prove that there are no path to BoLaS II. Until then, it remains possible.


When asked about Bolas II failure on an accessory in PM, Eladrin said (and i'm sorry to bring you into this E.)

The upgrade path for a Balance of Land and Sky weapon unfortunately does not require a Balance of Land and Sky shard. The "special" advancement paths are occasionally slightly more complicated than the para- or quasi-elemental combinations.
"Raar."

Implying that neither the accessory upgrade path nor the weapon upgrade path uses a Bolas shard.

It is highly likely that a tempered shard is used , although just a plain old water shard hasn't been ruled out yet.

And i'm very disappointed I have to back up my statements. I doubt I will contribute to this thread anymore.

[Missing_Minds]

just to confirm -OM tier 1, +EE tier 2, +EE/-EE tier 3


Oh, thank you for posting that. That gives me greater confidence that a

+OE, -MO, +MO/-MO may work. I was worried that the whole Material Etherial jump at tier 1 and 2 would kill it.

[MysticTheurge]

And i'm very disappointed I have to back up my statements. I doubt I will contribute to this thread anymore.

This thread is already a nightmare of conflicting theories when people do have to back up their statements. I'd hate to see what it would be like if people didn't have to back up their statements.

[UtherSRG]

And i'm very disappointed I have to back up my statements. I doubt I will contribute to this thread anymore.


This thread is already a nightmare of conflicting theories when people do have to back up their statements. I'd hate to see what it would be like if people didn't have to back up their statements.

Agreed. We're talking nearly 2700 posts, Raidon, it's a mess. Don't sweat it. Take the high ground and continue the good work and ignore the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. Or something like that. ;)

There will always be folks who take their theories more seriously than the facts they are presented with. That has nothing to do with this forum but of human nature. Scientists do the same thing until they are pounded into the ground by the weight of the evidence. Here, it is harder to discriminate between the evidence, and rumors, and theories.

[Inkblack]

This thread is already a nightmare of conflicting theories when people do have to back up their statements. I'd hate to see what it would be like if people didn't have to back up their statements.

QFT -- For a thread that is fast approaching 3,000 replies, I think it's wise to say what you are basing your statements on. It's not that I don't believe anyone, it helps me remember if I see how they came up with their idea. I'm one of those people that liked to see how the equations were derived.

With so many posts, I was wondering if there was an upper limit on thread size. Then I saw the Cupcake Musketeers Sign in (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=115760) thread. I think we've got a ways to go before we have that particular problem.

Ink

PS - Raidon, please continue to contribute your ideas.

[Zaodon]

When asked about Bolas II failure on an accessory in PM, Eladrin said (and i'm sorry to bring you into this E.)

The upgrade path for a Balance of Land and Sky weapon unfortunately does not require a Balance of Land and Sky shard. The "special" advancement paths are occasionally slightly more complicated than the para- or quasi-elemental combinations.
"Raar."

Implying that neither the accessory upgrade path nor the weapon upgrade path uses a Bolas shard.

It is highly likely that a tempered shard is used.

Who da man?! I'm da man!
Who da man?! I'm da man!
Dat's Right! I'm da man!

I've been saying this for 30 pages! :)

Gooooo me!
:)

(for the record, here was my theory I previously posted)

Pure
====
* Use a simple shard with the same element from first two upgrades.

Fire I + Fire = Fire II
Water I +Water = Water II
Earth I + Earth = Earth II
Air I + Air = Air II
Pos I + Pos = Pos II
Neg I + Neg = Neg II

Para/Quasi Upgrades:
================
* Create a Tier 3 supershard with the same two elements from first two upgrades. Focii order doesn't matter. Gem/Essence doesn't matter.

Smoke I + Smoke = Smoke II
Ice I + Ice = Ice II
Magma I + Magma = Magma II
Ooze I + Ooze = Ooze II

Lightning I + Lightning = Lightning II
Vacuum I + Vacuum = Vacuum II
Mineral I + Mineral = Mineral II
Dust I + Dust = Dust II
Radiance I + Radiance = Radiance II
Ash I + Ash = Ash II
Steam I + Steam = Steam II
Salt I + Salt = Salt II

Special Upgrades: (Special means OPPOSITE - don't normally exist in D&D)
================================================== ====
* Create a Tier 3 supershard with the OPPOSITE two elements from first two upgrades. Focii order doesn't matter. Gem/Essence doesn't matter.

Balance of Land and Sky + Tempered = (?)
Tempered + Balance of Land and Sky = (?)
Existential Stalemate + Existential Stalemate = Concordant Opposition

[Raidon]

PS - Raidon, please continue to contribute your ideas.

TY, Yes just getting a little stressed (by the large ingredient grinding I think - just finished 3 more shroud runs before previous post) . I apologise. Should have enough large ingredients in a few more days to do some more full upgrades research.

[Ilandrya]

No, Eladrin said all tier 2 upgrades can get a tier 3 bonus upgrade. He didn't say that every tier 2 has a unique tier 3 bonus upgrade.

If you wish to discuss semantics, in the post you are responding to that you have in quotes, I said Eldarin said every "I" can be made into a "II". I did not say that "Eladrin said that every tier 2 has a unique tier 3 bonus upgrade".


Further, please re-read what you wrote:

Eladrin said all tier 2 upgrades can get a tier 3 bonus upgrade
He didn't say that every tier 2 has a unique tier 3 bonus upgrade

all/every = same thing
tier 2/tier 2 = same thing
can get a/has a = same thing
tier 3 bonus upgrade/unique tier 3 bonus upgrade = same thing

So did he or didn't he say that... you say he did, then say he didn't. Again, if you are arguing semantics, the only real difference between your two sentences, besides "did"/"didn't", is the word "unique", and I'm not sure what you mean by that since I'm not sure where you are getting that from to begin with... I did not say that in the post you are quoting.


What he actually said, if you are concerned with semantics, is:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=1574379#post1574379

How you wish to interpret that is up to you. To me, based on all of Eladrin's posts on the subject, Eladrin is saying, in essence... not getting into semantics/word for word quoting, that all "I's" have a way to achieve a "II".




The following is entirely fitting within the hints:

BoLaS I + BoLaS shard = failure
BoLas I + Tempered shard = success
Tempered I + Tempered shard = failure
Tempered I + BoLaS shard = success

I'm not debating that. In fact, if you read my theory, thats one of my two suggestions for how to achieve BoLaS II and Tempered II... it's not the one I suspect will be the case, but it is one of the two possiblities I am considering as plausable at this point. (The one I suspect will be the case for both Tempered and BoLaS is the addition of an Existential Stalemate shard, for the reasons stated in the theory I posted earlier.)

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Balance of Land and Sky + Tempered = (?)
Tempered + Balance of Land and Sky = (?)
Existential Stalemate + Existential Stalemate = Concordant Opposition

Indeed... I would even go futher to say there is no 'Tempered II' or 'BoLaS II' (there is no spoon) but these two upgrades probably just give the same 'all four elements in one II' effect (elemental concordance?) this bonus effect being probably the same for both upgrades, but by going different routes you get to pick whether you want Fire or Earth being your dominate element at tier 3 (and also control the tier 1 and 2 effects of course...)

Garth

[oronisi]

Who da man?! I'm da man!
Who da man?! I'm da man!
Dat's Right! I'm da man!

I've been saying this for 30 pages! :)

Gooooo me!
:)

(for the record, here was my theory I previously posted)

Pure
====
* Use a simple shard with the same element from first two upgrades.

Fire I + Fire = Fire II
Water I +Water = Water II
Earth I + Earth = Earth II
Air I + Air = Air II
Pos I + Pos = Pos II
Neg I + Neg = Neg II

Para/Quasi Upgrades:
================
* Create a Tier 3 supershard with the same two elements from first two upgrades. Focii order doesn't matter. Gem/Essence doesn't matter.

Smoke I + Smoke = Smoke II
Ice I + Ice = Ice II
Magma I + Magma = Magma II
Ooze I + Ooze = Ooze II

Lightning I + Lightning = Lightning II
Vacuum I + Vacuum = Vacuum II
Mineral I + Mineral = Mineral II
Dust I + Dust = Dust II
Radiance I + Radiance = Radiance II
Ash I + Ash = Ash II
Steam I + Steam = Steam II
Salt I + Salt = Salt II

Special Upgrades: (Special means OPPOSITE - don't normally exist in D&D)
================================================== ====
* Create a Tier 3 supershard with the OPPOSITE two elements from first two upgrades. Focii order doesn't matter. Gem/Essence doesn't matter.

Balance of Land and Sky + Tempered = (?)
Tempered + Balance of Land and Sky = (?)
Existential Stalemate + Existential Stalemate = Concordant Opposition


If you've been saying it for 30 pages, I'd hope you would have realized by now that Existential Stalemate is NOT a special upgrade. It follows the same as ALL others you have listed:

Fire + Fire = More fire
Lightning + Lightning = super lightning
Existential Stalemate + Existential Stalemate = super existential stalemate with a nifty new name.

Right now the only supposed 'special' upgrades are BoLaS and Tempered.

[Coldin]

I still wonder if it's possible to combine two of the same Supreme Shards. Like an Air + Air, to get a Super Air Shard. I'd test it myself (I'm planning on using a second air shard for my next weapon anyway) but I'm still about 20 large ingredients short. :o

[The_Cataclysm]

If you've been saying it for 30 pages, I'd hope you would have realized by now that Existential Stalemate is NOT a special upgrade. It follows the same as ALL others you have listed:

Fire + Fire = More fire
Lightning + Lightning = super lightning
Existential Stalemate + Existential Stalemate = super existential stalemate with a nifty new name.

Right now the only supposed 'special' upgrades are BoLaS and Tempered.

It's special in that it doesn't fall under para or quasi elementals.

[Kargon]

I still wonder if it's possible to combine two of the same Supreme Shards. Like an Air + Air, to get a Super Air Shard. I'd test it myself (I'm planning on using a second air shard for my next weapon anyway) but I'm still about 20 large ingredients short. :o

this would not seem to do anymathing even if it worked besides eat one of the shards. even when combine two differmerent elemaments, one shard basicamally gets eaten and just adds somemathing like 'mineral II' which only give upgramades if put onto a 'mineramal I' item/weapamon.

[Sharzade]

And i'm very disappointed I have to back up my statements. I doubt I will contribute to this thread anymore.

Many of us look forward to your discoveries, so don't abandon the crafting thread. You've done superduper Hawt research, and it's much appreciated! So stay, hang in here with us while we figure stuff out. This thread should be fun for everyone, not full of stress. So no more Stressy stuff!!!!! Please stay.

/hearts and flowers, :)

Sharzade
;)

[Zaodon]

If you've been saying it for 30 pages, I'd hope you would have realized by now that Existential Stalemate is NOT a special upgrade. It follows the same as ALL others you have listed:

Fire + Fire = More fire
Lightning + Lightning = super lightning
Existential Stalemate + Existential Stalemate = super existential stalemate with a nifty new name.

Right now the only supposed 'special' upgrades are BoLaS and Tempered.

No, its a "special" upgrade just like BoLaS and Tempered.

Opposite of BoLas = Tempered
Opposite of Tempered = BoLaS
Opposite of Existential Stalemate = Existential Stalemate

It just so happens that the opposite of Existential Stalemate is Existential Stalemate. Just like the opposite of Infinity is Infinity (so many people think its -Infinity, but that just shows that they don't truly understand what Infinity is.)

:)

[Phaye]

Hey. Made a quick look at the thread (and a search) but didn't found out the answer to my question.

Maybe you can help me:

What will happen if you apply the Mineral II upgrade on a Maul (blunt weapon)?
Obviously it can't be slicing or things like that. Does anyone knows or have a hint?

Thanks

[MysticTheurge]

What will happen if you apply the Mineral II upgrade on a Maul (blunt weapon)?
Obviously it can't be slicing or things like that. Does anyone knows or have a hint?

Word is that it's "impact" (bludgeoning's version of keen) and still, somehow, "slicing."

Maybe it's a pointy maul? ;)

[Zaodon]

Hey. Made a quick look at the thread (and a search) but didn't found out the answer to my question.

Maybe you can help me:

What will happen if you apply the Mineral II upgrade on a Maul (blunt weapon)?
Obviously it can't be slicing or things like that. Does anyone knows or have a hint?

Thanks

Impact instead of Keen.
Still has Slicing. (its like when you get hit by a swinging door and it rips open a cut, I guess?)

[Zaodon]

I may have missed it but, does an Item with Mineral II get the same +80 Durability / +8 Hardness that a weapon does ? (along with +5 Prot and Heavy Fort)

[Wulf_Ratbane]

Word is that it's "impact" (bludgeoning's version of keen) and still, somehow, "slicing."

Maybe it's a pointy maul? ;)

Related question:

Has anybody taken screen shots of the actual graphic used with the various recipes of greensteel base weapons?

[Shade]

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5599/greensteelmaulofmineralah4.jpg

[EspyLacopa]

No, its a "special" upgrade just like BoLaS and Tempered.

Opposite of BoLas = Tempered
Opposite of Tempered = BoLaS
Opposite of Existential Stalemate = Existential Stalemate

It just so happens that the opposite of Existential Stalemate is Existential Stalemate. Just like the opposite of Infinity is Infinity (so many people think its -Infinity, but that just shows that they don't truly understand what Infinity is.)

:)
Well, for the sake of arguement, I'd think the opposite of Infinity(Everything) is Ø(Nothing)

[Phaye]

Snip

Thanks very much for answers guys.

[Borror0]

Many of us look forward to your discoveries, so don't abandon the crafting thread. You've done superduper Hawt research, and it's much appreciated! So stay, hang in here with us while we figure stuff out. This thread should be fun for everyone, not full of stress. So no more Stressy stuff!!!!! Please stay.

/hearts and flowers, :)

Sharzade
;)

Of everyone, I think Sharz said it best. ;) Sorry Raidon, but with everyone speculating that much, we need to know whether or not you're speculating or have some proofs of what you advancing. thanks for explaining the information have, and sorry again.


*Mineral II Green Steel Maul*

So I guess you calculated a maul was more DPS than a greatsword?

[Boulderun]

So I guess you calculated a maul was more DPS than a greatsword?

Faster animation and 17-20/x3 for a barb, I don't doubt it.




(nerf crit rage!)

[Shade]

So I guess you calculated a maul was more DPS than a greatsword?

Not before I made the weapon no, I just prefer x3 crit and mauls.

But since u mentioned it I thought i'd check:
Comparison if I made a GS with same stats, with my characters average Str (46 single madstone) and seeker item (Mentaus Googles +4) (http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/ddo/analyze.php?1label=Maul&1bab=16&1atktype=2h&1spm=90&1phd=2d8%2B5&1phed=3d6&1phth=5&1phthreat=17%2Fx3&1phxcrit=2d10%2B2d10%2B12&1ohd=1d4&1ohed=0&1ohth=0&1ohthreat=18-20%2Fx2&1ohxcrit=&1str=46&1dex=10&1sneakpct=0&1sneakd=1d6&1cleavepct=0&2label=GS&2bab=16&2atktype=2h&2spm=90&2phd=3d6%2B5&2phed=3d6&2phth=5&2phthreat=15%2Fx2&2phxcrit=1d10%2B1d10%2B8&2ohd=1d4&2ohed=0&2ohth=0&2ohthreat=18-20%2Fx2&2ohxcrit=&2str=46&2dex=10&2sneakpct=0&2sneakd=1d6&2cleavepct=0&report=on&minac=10&maxac=50)

Doesn't factor in the mauls faster speed or greatswords higher glancing blow damage tho. Friend with simililar stats as me and a Greatsword reports 31-32 dmg glancing blows with greatsword vs 29-30 with maul.

[oronisi]

No, its a "special" upgrade just like BoLaS and Tempered.

Opposite of BoLas = Tempered
Opposite of Tempered = BoLaS
Opposite of Existential Stalemate = Existential Stalemate

It just so happens that the opposite of Existential Stalemate is Existential Stalemate. Just like the opposite of Infinity is Infinity (so many people think its -Infinity, but that just shows that they don't truly understand what Infinity is.)

:)

To clarify, I am using the term 'special' in regards to the upgrade path. I think you are using it to refer to the raw combination. As in Positive + Negative is special to you because it's not listed in some DnD book. While I am saying that A+B is completed with (A+B), just like all other non A+A combos.

[binnsr]

No, its a "special" upgrade just like BoLaS and Tempered.

Opposite of BoLas = Tempered
Opposite of Tempered = BoLaS
Opposite of Existential Stalemate = Existential Stalemate

It just so happens that the opposite of Existential Stalemate is Existential Stalemate. Just like the opposite of Infinity is Infinity (so many people think its -Infinity, but that just shows that they don't truly understand what Infinity is.)

:)

Isn't Infinity a car brand? So a (not)Infinity would be anything else? And wouldn't that make the opposite of Existential Stalemate any of the other combos?

ok, now I'm just confused ! :) why can't we just drive a jeep?

[ColsonJade]

I may have missed it but, does an Item with Mineral II get the same +80 Durability / +8 Hardness that a weapon does ? (along with +5 Prot and Heavy Fort)

Yes.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Related question:

Has anybody taken screen shots of the actual graphic used with the various recipes of greensteel base weapons?

Not sure if this is what you're asking - but I archive most of the weapon and item screenshots on my website here (http://will.phase.net/ddo/items/). I only archive tier 2 and 3 items though - not the original 'blank' green steel items...

If you want screenshots of the ingredients themselves - then this (http://www.randojones.com/miscellany/ddocrafting.aspx) rather nifty crafing website seems to have most of them.

Garth

[Zaodon]

Originally Posted by Zaodon http://ddoimages.turbine.com/forums/images/buttons/blue/viewpost.gif (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=1613284#post1613284)
I may have missed it but, does an Item with Mineral II get the same +80 Durability / +8 Hardness that a weapon does ? (along with +5 Prot and Heavy Fort)

Yes.

Gracias.



Oh, random thought:
If Items get "Trap the Soul Guard", that would mean weapons likely get "Trap the Soul" on hit....
Same for Enervation Guard.

[Borror0]

Doesn't factor in the mauls faster speed or greatswords higher glancing blow damage tho. Friend with simililar stats as me and a Greatsword reports 31-32 dmg glancing blows with greatsword vs 29-30 with maul.

Yeah, thought that Maul would be better DPS (because of Critical Rage II), but I wasn't sure. Too lazy to test it out. Higher glacing blows is a little logical as maul is 2d8 versus greatword being 3d6... I guess maul being faster more than mkes up for it.

[CaseStringer]

:confused: Infinity has an opposite, and it isn't infinity... Infinity is without beginning or end. Thus, finite is the opposite of infinite.;)

[nbhs275]

No, its a "special" upgrade just like BoLaS and Tempered.

Opposite of BoLas = Tempered
Opposite of Tempered = BoLaS
Opposite of Existential Stalemate = Existential Stalemate

It just so happens that the opposite of Existential Stalemate is Existential Stalemate. Just like the opposite of Infinity is Infinity (so many people think its -Infinity, but that just shows that they don't truly understand what Infinity is.)

:)

Infinity is a line that goes off forever in both direction, positive and negative. So negative infinity is non existant really. Imaginary numbers would be closer to an opposite to the concept of infinity.

However, its true that negative/positive is a balance of those two forces, so its pretty simple that more force on both sides maintains the balance. Equal and oppisite forces.

Where as air(up) is opposed to earth(down) it doesnt naturally combine, and BoLaS is the result. Fire(hot) and water(cold) are also two forces that cannot naturally exist in the same point in space at the same time. Hence tempered(a slow heating and rapid quenching that serves to enhance the properties of metals). Now seeing tempering a weapon twice really doesnt do anything, and more sky over land doesnt really make sense, the combination of the four material elements(earth, air, fire, water) brings about a more complete balance. Or, atleast that is the current theorie, until it is either proven or disproven.

[sirgog]

Infinity is a line that goes off forever in both direction, positive and negative. So negative infinity is non existant really. Imaginary numbers would be closer to an opposite to the concept of infinity.

However, its true that negative/positive is a balance of those two forces, so its pretty simple that more force on both sides maintains the balance. Equal and oppisite forces.

Where as air(up) is opposed to earth(down) it doesnt naturally combine, and BoLaS is the result. Fire(hot) and water(cold) are also two forces that cannot naturally exist in the same point in space at the same time. Hence tempered(a slow heating and rapid quenching that serves to enhance the properties of metals). Now seeing tempering a weapon twice really doesnt do anything, and more sky over land doesnt really make sense, the combination of the four material elements(earth, air, fire, water) brings about a more complete balance. Or, atleast that is the current theorie, until it is either proven or disproven.

Infinity's opposite depends upon your definition of infinity - for most applications, positive infinity is the opposite of negative, at least when dealing with real numbers.

[namad1]

yeah really most of the people posting about the opposite of infinity seemingly just mean the word infinity....
basically it's off-topic and definition dependent anyways so... how about no more of that...


but yeah i wonder if BoLaS+tempered=something with a really cool name

[Preylor]

Has there yet to be any proof as to how much damage Incineration does?

[Shima-ra]

I've calculated the dps difference between the Mineral greensteel maul and greatsword.
I've calculated it for barbarians with Imp crit II, and for fighters with greater weapon specialisation slashing (since most fighter spec for slash).
For barbs, the greensteel maul does about 20 to 25% more dmg. And thats not including the faster attack rate of the maul.

For fighters, its the greatsword that does about 15% more dmg.

[nbhs275]

I've calculated the dps difference between the Mineral greensteel maul and greatsword.
I've calculated it for barbarians with Imp crit II, and for fighters with greater weapon specialisation slashing (since most fighter spec for slash).
For barbs, the greensteel maul does about 20 to 25% more dmg. And thats not including the faster attack rate of the maul.

For fighters, its the greatsword that does about 15% more dmg.


somehow those numbers seem very wrong. just with the base of 2d8+5/(17-20/x3) vs 3d6+5(15-20/x2)

maul
7-21 14 avg(21-63 crit 42 avg) =378 over 20 swings

8-23 15.5 avg(16-46 crit 31 avg) = 387.5 over 20 swings

sword is 2.5% higher then the maul, though this doesnt take into account the mauls higher(suposed) rate of attack.

[Boulderun]

It's too early in the AM for math, but I think as you add flat bonuses (str mod, pwr atk, barb pwr atk, ftr wep spec) the critical multiplier will amplify the difference.

[Tallyn]

somehow those numbers seem very wrong. just with the base of 2d8+5/(17-20/x3) vs 3d6+5(15-20/x2)

maul
7-21 14 avg(21-63 crit 42 avg) =378 over 20 swings

8-23 15.5 avg(16-46 crit 31 avg) = 387.5 over 20 swings

sword is 2.5% higher then the maul, though this doesnt take into account the mauls higher(suposed) rate of attack.


You are only using the base of the weapon. It's pretty easy for a Barbarian to hit 42 Strength. And lets add in some other factors as well (not all easy to get, but still a lot of people have).

+24 Damage bonus from Strength (+16 Str bonus x 1.5)
+10 Power Attack Two handed Bonus
+6 Seeker Bonus from Bloodstone (18 for Maul [x3], 12 for Greatsword [x2])

(I made a mistake and fixed it )

Maul:
Normal Hit 2d8+5 + 2d6 Holy + 1d4 Slicing + 24 + 10 = 57.5 Average
Critical Hit (2d8+5 + 31 + 10 + 6) x3 + 2d6 Holy + 1d4 Slicing + 2d10 Acid + 2d10 Acid = 193.5 Average
Natural 20 (2d8+5 + 31 + 10 + 6) x3 + 2d6 Holy + 1d4 Slicing + 2d10 Acid + 2d10 Acid + 4d6 Acid = 207.5 Average

Greatsword:
Normal Hit 3d6+5 + 2d6 Holy + 1d4 Slicing + 24 +10 = 59 Average
Critical Hit (3d6+5 + 24 + 10 + 6) x2 + 2d6 Holy + 1d4 Slicing + 1d10 Acid + 1d10 Acid = 131.5 Average
Natural 20 (3d6+5 + 24 + 10 + 6) x2 + 2d6 Holy + 1d4 Slicing + 1d10 Acid + 1d10 Acid + 4d6 Acid = 145.5 Average

I think my math is right on this one...so over 20 swings, we'll assume all crits are confirmed (1 misses of course):

Maul: [17-20/x3]
2 -16 = 57.5 Average (15x for 862.5)
17 -19 = 193.5 Average (3x for 580.5)
20 = 207.5 (1x 207.5)

1650.5 Over 20 Swings

Greatsword: [15-20/x2]
2 - 14 = 59 Average (13x for 767)
15 - 19 = 131.5 Average (5x 657.5)
20 = 145.5 Average (1x 145.5)

1570 Over 20 Swings

So for the Barbarian in this example it seems that the Maul is approximately 5.1% better before you take into account the speed difference. Not sure how big the speed difference is, but I've heard people say almost up to 10%. So for a Barbarian the maul is clearly a superior choice to the Greatsword :)

[mehlinda]

Magma II and Salt II discovered tonight on Thelanis... pix and stats forthcoming

[Borror0]

Salt II is junk.... at least so far..

(Combat): Ykaterina's corrosive salt hit you for 80 points of damage.
Doesn't hit really often.

[Sweep]

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii124/Purges/untitled.jpg

the Proc effect seems to do 3 ticks for around 100 damage each tick
forgot to take pic of the shard but fire trumped earth

Ethereal + Opposition + Earth
Opposition: Bone, Chain, Scale, Stone
Ethereal Essence: Arrowhead, Chain, Scale, Stone
Focus of Earth: Arrowhead, Bone, Chain, Shrapnel

Ethereal + Opposition + Fire
Opposition: Bone, Chain, Scale, Stone
Ethereal Essence: Arrowhead, Chain, Scale, Stone
Focus of Fire: Arrowhead, Bones, Scale, Shrapnel

[Borror0]

(Combat): Purge's magma surge hit you for 43 points of fire damage; 30 was stopped by your damage resistance.
(Combat): You are hit by purge's slow.
(Combat): Your movement rate has been reduced by 50% and your attack rate by 30%, and you have a -1 penalty on attack rolls, AC, and reflex saves.
(Combat): You are hit by purge's magma.
(Combat): Magma
(Combat): Purge's slow has been removed.

Happens each tick, but proc really rarely. Maybe 1% of the time.

[Borror0]

From testing Corrosive salt, no resist energy blocks it.

Here's a theory, may the special effects trigger on a critical? That's what we're getting so far from Earthgrab, Magma Surge and Corrosive Salt. Everything only triggerd on a critical hit so far. So maybe it's something like X% of chance of triggering on a critical or soemthing like that...

Oh, btw, critical rage is bugged. You don't need to be raged to get the effect. :)

As for the Salt II screenshot, she'll probably post it tomorrow.

[Chelsa]

We should be able to confirm Salt II in a the next few days, but it appears when the effect goes off it does a 4 round DOT that does about 300 points of damage and there appears to be no resistance against it.

[Turial]

From testing Corrosive salt, no resist energy blocks it.

Here's a theory, may the special effects trigger on a critical? That's what we're getting so far from Earthgrab, Magma Surge and Corrosive Salt. Everything only triggerd on a critical hit so far. So maybe it's something like X% of chance of triggering on a critical or soemthing like that...

Oh, btw, critical rage is bugged. You don't need to be raged to get the effect. :)

As for the Salt II screenshot, she'll probably post it tomorrow.

Though that theory makes sense it would be an unfortunate one due to the lack of higher critical weapons such as rapiers and scimitars at the moment.

[Borror0]

We should be able to confirm Salt II in a the next few days, but it appears when the effect goes off it does a 4 round DOT that does about 300 points of damage and there appears to be no resistance against it.

It's no really clear, I got hit twice and didn't seem to be a DoT... but I got hit four and it was a DoT.

[Wulf_Ratbane]

Not sure if this is what you're asking - but I archive most of the weapon and item screenshots on my website here (http://will.phase.net/ddo/items/). I only archive tier 2 and 3 items though - not the original 'blank' green steel items...

What I mean is, what does the actual weapon itself look like when equipped on your avatar? What do other people see. I've seen a few, obviously, in pics of folks testing mods in PvP.

Some of the weapons have two different ingredient paths to build the greensteel weapon-- Greatsword #1 and Greatsword #2 for example.

Just wondering if they actually create two different-looking greensteel items.

Yes, this is a pointless newb question. =)

I have nothing better to do all day than daydream about uber weapons I'll never make. Heh.

[Wulf_Ratbane]

You are only using the base of the weapon. It's pretty easy for a Barbarian to hit 42 Strength. And lets add in some other factors as well (not all easy to get, but still a lot of people have).

+31 Damage bonus from Strength (+21 Str bonus x 1.5)

42 STR = +16 damage (+24 with 2H x1.5 bonus).

Subtract 10, then divide by two.


So lets redo some math here

Indeed.

[Ilandrya]

Gratz guys. Looking forward to the screenie of Salt II. What were the dominate focuses on the Magma II and Salt II shards?

[Wulf_Ratbane]

Gratz guys. Looking forward to the screenie of Salt II. What were the dominate focuses on the Magma II and Salt II shards?

Based on the Magma II screenshot, his Tier 3 bonus was +4 AC (Insight).

So... still indeterminate?

EDIT: I notice that Inkdrop has already updated his spreadsheet and lists Fire as dominant. Why?

[UtherSRG]

Gratz guys. Looking forward to the screenie of Salt II. What were the dominate focuses on the Magma II and Salt II shards?


Based on the Magma II screenshot, his Tier 3 bonus was +4 AC (Insight).

So... still indeterminate?

He said Fire was dominant on Magma. I presume Water was dominant on Salt.

[Wulf_Ratbane]

He said Fire was dominant on Magma. I presume Water was dominant on Salt.

The resulting combined shard indicates the dominant element: Am I recalling that correctly?

[Inkblack]

Based on the Magma II screenshot, his Tier 3 bonus was +4 AC (Insight).

So... still indeterminate?

EDIT: I notice that Inkdrop has already updated his spreadsheet and lists Fire as dominant. Why?
I got it from this quote. Without the screenie I color-coded it as unconfirmed, but I trust it is accurate.

the Proc effect seems to do 3 ticks for around 100 damage each tick
forgot to take pic of the shard but fire trumped earth

[Ilandrya]

Assuming that he is accurate in that fire dominated earth (since we don't have a screenie of the shard and the item itself doesn't show it), my current flow mapping of the planes would have to be altered a bit... I'm changing the flow to go with what we know is true thus far, and assuming how the rest will work based on patterning.

[KuRRuPT]

Big thx to my guildies (The Iron Phalanx in ghallanda) to make this special upgrade possible.

1st tier -EE
2nd tier +EE
3rd tier (+/-)EE

result
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/2594/screenshot00066fh7.th.jpg (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot00066fh7.jpg)

more info on this special 3rd combo and test result will be post later

Waiting on you bro because i was after doing something like this so when u get a chance post how and what u used so i can follow in your foot steps.... Great Job Bro

[Borror0]

Gratz guys. Looking forward to the screenie of Salt II. What were the dominate focuses on the Magma II and Salt II shards?


He said Fire was dominant on Magma. I presume Water was dominant on Salt.

Fire was dominant over earth, he even said it in his post. He simply forgot to take a screenshot. As for Salt, water was dominant over negative as she got Icy Blast.

[Borror0]

Assuming that he is accurate in that fire dominated earth (since we don't have a screenie of the shard and the item itself doesn't show it), my current flow mapping of the planes would have to be altered a bit... I'm changing the flow to go with what we know is true thus far, and assuming how the rest will work based on patterning.

He can be trusted. I logged on as they finished the raid and that was the first thing he told me "Oh Borror, I made Magma II but forgot to take a screenshot of my shard, but fire trumped earth."

[Wulf_Ratbane]

Cool-- I missed it in his post.

[Ilandrya]

He can be trusted. I logged on as they finished the raid and that was the first thing he told me "Oh Borror, I made Magma II but forgot to take a screenshot of my shard, but fire trumped earth."


Wasn't commenting upon his trust factor... don't know him. Just simply stating that a picture is more reliable than humans who can make mistakes... even this human = ).

[Borror0]

Just simply stating that a picture is more reliable than humans who can make mistakes... even this human = ).

Yeah, I know. I think the same, just saying that he checked on it. He ain't assuming for a second.

[Sweep]

I am very sorry i forgot to take a pic of the shard...i was so excited about what it would do it slipped my mind
the +4 to ac is from going ethereal opposition and the elemen as you can see from Page one of this thread
the SPECIAL power is the MAGMA SURGE that goes off once in awhile for around 100 per tick in a DoT effect and slows them as well
the shard if i remember correctly was called Ethereal Fire opposition and elemental Magma under that
thanks to The Infamaous Flaming Vagabonds (IFV) and Legends of Zen for the many runs and help gathering ingredients
it was a BLAST (MAGMA) lol


Oh yeah...i am 100% sure i put the fire Supreme Shard in first...even though i don't think it matters

[Wutinni]

Has anyone tired mixing BoLaS and Tempered so that all elements were used?

[stockwizard5]

I would be happy to make BoaTLoadS tonight but I have an issue ... the FWEA + DFT really limit the options. Example: Tonights run is with Maelsfains (a Necro/Nuking Sorc with max CHA/CON). Fains already wears EEA/EEA/EEA for 600SP/+6Cha UMD 38.

I don't have (or even have proof it exists) a "Clensing Stone". I would not mind re-making the goggles but it looks like the best I can do is +2Cha UMD 34 which is ALOT to give up. IF THERE WAS ANY MORE FEEDBACK (HINT DEV HINT DEV) ABOUT CLENSING I might risk a second item like ... Fire Resist +10 and 25 HP which is still kinda lame.

The other choice is to make an weapon but what to make ... Fire Absorb 10%, 15%, 20%, STR +6, CON +2 are the only things that look even marginally useful? Can anyone confirm that GS Fire Absorption would stack with Greaves or Spell? If not there appears to be zilch here as well?

Any ideas?

[Tallyn]

42 STR = +16 damage (+24 with 2H x1.5 bonus).

Subtract 10, then divide by two.



Indeed.

Thanks, you could have just pointed out I needed to fix the calculation. No need to be a sarcastic jerk about it.

It was 2 in the morning when I was doing the math, and my eyes were bleeding :P

[Inkblack]

I am very sorry i forgot to take a pic of the shard...i was so excited about what it would do it slipped my mind
the +4 to ac is from going ethereal opposition and the elemen as you can see from Page one of this thread
the SPECIAL power is the MAGMA SURGE that goes off once in awhile for around 100 per tick in a DoT effect and slows them as well
the shard if i remember correctly was called Ethereal Fire opposition and elemental Magma under that
thanks to The Infamaous Flaming Vagabonds (IFV) and Legends of Zen for the many runs and help gathering ingredients
it was a BLAST (MAGMA) lol


Oh yeah...i am 100% sure i put the fire Supreme Shard in first...even though i don't think it matters

No worries, thanks for sharing your information.

Unless a dev comes in and tells us we are still missing something, it seems we are getting close to having this thing solved. I think the only big thing hanging out there is a trial of BoLaS + Tempered or vice versa.

Ink

[Ilandrya]

Still wondering about why some items get a title at certain upgrades and others do not.

Also, I know that the die on green steel weapons is different from regular weapons, but has anybody noted a crit multiplier change or been watching for that? Just now thought of it because I don't really melee... my lowbie ranger is 7 (I've had her for a year) and my Cleric rarely uses a returning dagger.

[Boulderun]

I have Balance goggles on my sorc, working toward adding Tempered. I'm about 8 larges and a supreme shard away.

Getting stuck with INT or WIS skill bonus is going to suck (INT harder, of course), but I want to get the **** thing done so I can get back to the usual routine of colossal disappointment.

[Sharzade]

Hiya,

Yay! Finally got a weapon finished yesterday with Legends of Zen and Infamous Flaming Vagabonds helping me do a few 1 - 4 Shroud runs for some final ingredients. I went with Salt II, seeing that I'm gonna be redoing Ashin's Vacuum weapon so that it doesn't give her a negative level. :D

Tier 1: Inferior Negative focus, Cloudy Material Essence, Diluted Dominion Gem
Tier 2: Water focus, Material Essence, Dominion Gem

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p48/Sharzade/Tier2AspectSalt.jpg

At Tier 3: Imbued 2 Supreme Shards.

1st Shard: Superior Negative Focus, Pure Material Essence, Flawless Dominion Gem

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p48/Sharzade/Tier3NegativeSupreme.jpg

2nd Shard: Superior Water Focus, Pure Material Essence, Flawless Dominion Gem

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p48/Sharzade/Tier3WaterSupreme.jpg

Fused the 2 Imbued Supreme Shards with a High Energy Fuel Cell

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p48/Sharzade/SaltAspectSupershardCreation.jpg

Placed the purple Material Negative Energy Dominion Supreme Shard into device before the Material Water Dominion Supreme Shard.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p48/Sharzade/WeightyShardElementalSalt.jpg

The two shards combined to make a Material Water Dominion Supreme Shard of Elemental Salt. Water is dominant.

Fused the Aspect of Salt Tier 2 Greatsword, Material Water Dominion Supreme Shard of Elemental Salt, and a high energy fuel cell.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p48/Sharzade/LastStep.jpg

Completely upgraded Aspect of Salt weapon.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p48/Sharzade/AspectOfSalt1.jpg

Thanks to everyone who helped me make my first Tier 3 weapon! It was lotsafun, and I hope it's helpful. :)

Cheers,

Sharzade
:p

[Tallyn]

Congrats Sharzade!

[Wulf_Ratbane]

Since that weapon isn't exactly "ideal" I assume you took one for the team.

In the interest of science.

Much thanks, Sharzade.

[Wulf_Ratbane]

Thanks, you could have just pointed out I needed to fix the calculation. No need to be a sarcastic jerk about it.

It was 2 in the morning when I was doing the math, and my eyes were bleeding :P

Dude, come on, that was my light touch.

Serious sarcastic jerkiness will scour the flesh from your bones.

[UtherSRG]

Since that weapon isn't exactly "ideal" I assume you took one for the team.

In the interest of science.

Much thanks, Sharzade.

The Salt II sword? Look again.... multiple images in that posting.

[ChildrenofBodom]

I think he means you wouldn't really use it in quests...

And I agree.

There are currently no good aligned mobs that are affected by frost, and also barely any good enemies either. Definately wouldn't waste 24 large ingredients for that weapon.

Great job Sharzade, appreciate your work greatly.

[Zaodon]

I think he means you wouldn't really use it in quests...

And I agree.

There are currently no good aligned mobs that are affected by frost, and also barely any good enemies either. Definately wouldn't waste 24 large ingredients for that weapon.


Are the Eldarins in Running with the Devils affected by Frost? Because I know the Teiflings in that quest are Good aligned.

[Tallyn]

I think he means you wouldn't really use it in quests...

And I agree.

There are currently no good aligned mobs that are affected by frost, and also barely any good enemies either. Definately wouldn't waste 24 large ingredients for that weapon.

Great job Sharzade, appreciate your work greatly.

Running with the Devils, vs the Eladrins.

They are good, they are not immune to frost, although they are resistant. (Should have Frost Resistance 10)

[Tallyn]

Are the Eldarins in Running with the Devils affected by Frost? Because I know the Teiflings in that quest are Good aligned.

Are you sure the Tieflings are good aligned? They should be evil.

[Grimshadow]

Does the Salt II effect have a debuff like the dot from Magma II? I am guessing it would be an AC debuff.

[winsom]

Im forming the opinion that super-shards have a minor use on weapons -- better than without. Weapons attack faster than once a second so it shouldn't take too long to get a special effect. Super-shards that make "guard" effects on accessories are almost-useless given the low percentage chance and the relative low frequency of incoming attacks. Maybe a tank-type character that plans on getting hit a lot (?) would appreciate a guard effect. My casters might only get hit a couple dozen times during an adventure, so the "guards" do not seem very attractive. This is just an assumption, on the "low percentages" as I don't have a super-shard item yet.

For people that think an extra 8 large materials and large cell is not a big deal -- they might as well craft the "guard" effect. For me, a person that PUGs and often loses at part 4 or skips it, it would take me many months or a year to craft enough super-shards. I have 3 characters that probably want 2 green steel items each. I may skip super-sharding and hope that Module 7 brings deconstruct-crafting options such that I can pull a supreme shard out of a green steel item and then add a super-shard to it.