fireball sucks stop casting it

[MisterT]

i'm getting pretty tired of arcanes dropping fireballs and I thought I should tell them that scorching ray is a waaaay better spell, and firewall rules them both. So if you are entertaining the idea of fireballing something, you should think of firewall for all your AOE needs and scorching ray for your "need to nuke" needs.

P.S. Arcanes need to haste like Divines need to heal, remember that :P

[Blazer]

i'm getting pretty tired of arcanes dropping fireballs and I thought I should tell them that scorching ray is a waaaay better spell, and firewall rules them both. So if you are entertaining the idea of fireballing something, you should think of firewall for all your AOE needs and scorching ray for your "need to nuke" needs.

Do you like it when people tell you how to play whatever class it is you play? Yeah, I didn't think so. ;)


P.S. Arcanes need to haste like Divines need to heal, remember that :P

Based on this comment, I'm guessing you are a fighter at best, a barbarian at worst. :rolleyes:

[Mercules]

i'm getting pretty tired of arcanes dropping fireballs and I thought I should tell them that scorching ray is a waaaay better spell, and firewall rules them both. So if you are entertaining the idea of fireballing something, you should think of firewall for all your AOE needs and scorching ray for your "need to nuke" needs.

P.S. Arcanes need to haste like Divines need to heal, remember that :P

P.S. If you are melee and telling me to Haste you you can just go buy some Haste potions. Alternately you can listen when I tell you to pull certain mobs back to my CC/Firewall to save me those SPs I spend on hasting you. ;)

P.P.S. If you see a Fireball coming out of my Sorcerer it is from a Wand(I have about 5 on me at all times ranging from level 5-10) and it is too effective in that it is adding damage to a large number of mobs without costing me any SPs. Usually it will be thrown out AFTER the firewall has been dropped. Don't assume Fireball casting = waste of SPs and/or "newb".

[Mad_Bombardier]

Methinks you don't play a caster or just not very well. Each and every spell has its place in the game. I've seen a low level Sorc basically solo Tangleroot with Fireball.

Blanket statements such as yours sadden me as to player knowledge of the game. I'm willing to bet that in the right situation (you know, those 1 or 2 cases in 100), my Burning Hands does more aggregate damage than your Scorching Ray. And you bet, in those few cases I'm gonna use it! :)

[MrCow]

I'm willing to bet that in the right situation (you know, those 1 or 2 cases in 100), my Burning Hands does more aggregate damage than your Scorching Ray. And you bet, in those few cases I'm gonna use it!

Reminds me of when I did a test for spell damage stacking with wands in Arachnophobia by gathering the 30 little spiders and whipped out a burning hands wand to fry each and every one of them in a single click.

Burst Area of Effect damage like Burning Hands and Fireball definately have a place and time. The sad thing is they are most effective when you have swarms of critters and most parties don't seem to like watching the arcane caster hightail it after launching a big fat fireball or other damage spell. It gets kinda hard for the melee to melee running things. :D

[Qzipoun]

Fireball is probably the spell i use the most on wands. The wands drop so much for me that everytime i'm out of sp or just need a nicely placed fireball i switch to wands and cast it. I had it on my spell list twice and took it off both times (im a sorc) I don't find it that useful on higher levels but on wands it's great.

Also, if you want haste then gather around me when i cast it, if someone doesnt get it when i say gather for haste then you're out of luck...

[Aranticus]

i'm gonna take my emp max fireball (180 dmg) and scorch ray (100 dmg x 2 ray) for damage calculation purposes

senario 1: group of mobs (8-10), avg 150 hp, spell used? fireball, all 8-10 will die

senario 2: group of mobs (4-5), avg 400 hp each, spell used? scorch ray, 2 shot will kill 1, a fireball will need 3 shots but will get you 4x the agro

senario 3: 1 mob 600 hp, spell used? scorch ray, no point wasting sp on 1 mob

[Varis]

haste is so I can run faster, fireball is to kill things fast no matter how many there are! If there is another use for those spells, let me know.

[kensihin_Himura]

Wow, that may be your suggestion but most people dont like people telling them that they should stop using a spell that they like. Next time keep you idiotic suggestions to yourself.

[Staedtler]

MisterT has a point a lot of people are overlooking

Against a single target scorching ray is superior. SR does 12d6 (4d6 x 3) which does not grant a save. Fireball maxes out at 10d6 and has a reflex save for half. Reflex save for 0 if you're fighting anything with rogue levels.

Against multiple targets wall of fire is superior. I really shouldn't have to go into gory detail as to why the damage output over time and damage per sp is greater for wall of fire. Wall of fire has the added bonus of being able to be used with other forms of cc. Wall of fire + solid fog is an excellent combination. You can also drop a heightened web, catch things and then drop your wall of fire. The web usually does not break and you've immobilized your target inside the wall of fire.

I've yet to see a situation where fireball would outperform these two spells. Delayed blast fireball will bring in a new dimension to this discussion with its max damage of 20d6. However, for it to pose any real advantage you'll have to be fully equipped to use it with potency and inferno VII items. I don't think those will be too easy to come by.

[Eryck]

Best scorching ray to date about 3 beams for a total of about 550-600 points total. Best fireball to date about 380. Yes Scorching ray for those onesy twosy things but as a fully fire spec'd Wiz there is nothing quite like a nice tasty monster BBQ. FB and SR and FW all have places. FW is a waste then the tanks cannot bottle the mobs or move them all over, FB is a waste on 1 mob and SR when the boss is beating down the tanks and 100 weenie mobs are in the way is a waste also. Fast feet, a nice agro catching FB and running in circles has saved many a sure wipe.

To everything there is a time and place. If you are lucky you are there if not.. release and retry :)

[Khalai]

I must say that the best use for fireball that any wizard/sorc I have played up was for breaking doors that i didn't have the strength to break down on my own

[Olaustt]

i'm getting pretty tired of arcanes dropping fireballs and I thought I should tell them that scorching ray is a waaaay better spell, and firewall rules them both. So if you are entertaining the idea of fireballing something, you should think of firewall for all your AOE needs and scorching ray for your "need to nuke" needs.

P.S. Arcanes need to haste like Divines need to heal, remember that :P


Sniffs the air....."I smell a Troll!"

[Strumpoo]

Haha!

I have personally watched one of the casters in my guild hit a pack of mobs for 1500-2000 points of damage with a single fireball. Yep, it is worthless.. :rolleyes:

Scorching ray isn't going to hit for anywhere near that amount of cumulative damage.

Scorching ray is good for sniping though as it is easier to manage aggro..

Firewall is fantastic as well, but the fireball is better for the big quick burst damage when you need it. Like to clear out a room full of ice reavers??

[kafromet]

i'm getting pretty tired of arcanes dropping fireballs and I thought I should tell them that scorching ray is a waaaay better spell, and firewall rules them both. So if you are entertaining the idea of fireballing something, you should think of firewall for all your AOE needs and scorching ray for your "need to nuke" needs.

P.S. Arcanes need to haste like Divines need to heal, remember that :PWhy don't you worry about your own game play and keep your arogant opinions to yourself. :rolleyes:

[Missing_Minds]

I've yet to see a situation where fireball would outperform these two spells. Delayed blast fireball will bring in a new dimension to this discussion with its max damage of 20d6. However, for it to pose any real advantage you'll have to be fully equipped to use it with potency and inferno VII items. I don't think those will be too easy to come by.

Emm... how about you are a lvl 5 or 6 wizard or a lvl 6 or sorc?

lvl 5:fireball: 5d6
lvl 5: SR: 4d6
lvl 5: WoF: you can't cast yet.
lvl 6: fireball : 6d6
lvl 6: SR: 4d6
lvl 6: WoF: You can't cast yet.

SR can not break down doors, fireballs do... and keep going. :)

WoF against things with saves and resistance... You'll be doing maybe 10-20 pts of damage. Fireball way beats this if the issue is taking it down fast and now.
Fireball is not restricted to "line of sight". I have aimed, and been in the direct line of sight of mummies in Wizard King. I was 0 for 5 with SR. (Yeah, I was ticked by the game's cheating, and no, 1 of my SRs would have taken down all of his fire protect. Mummy never cast/didn't cast it again either.) Fireball didn't have any issue hitting and killing this cheater. Their pathing (currently) is such there is no guaranty you can get them back into the WoF.

The point is, Scorching Ray, Fireball, Wall of Fire, each has their strong points and weaknesses. Use the spell that works best for the situation and have fun. :)

[Mindspat]

Fireballs rock!

Scortching Ray rocks!

Firewall rocks!

Each one has its place.

What upsets me is the fool who's spamming their fireball wands of scrolls of Firewall on-top of my web'd mobs. That ****es me off more then anything else. When I see this happening I send a polite tell informing the offender I will be holding off from controling the mobs for the fighters to wack on - then send a tell to teh cleric to be mindful on who's effectively using spell points for potential DV - then let the fighters know who's spaming useless or counterproductive spells so they can let agro take due course. ;)

My Fireballs hit for 300-600 points of dmg, per target, when I use them, which isn't terribly often due to circumstances. Are you sure you'd want me to not dump that kind of dmg into 4-10 mobs with a single button press?

[MisterT]

my very first character was an arcane caster, so you folk who think I haven't played one or don't play one are sadly mistaken :( my current main is in fact a fighter, but I also play a cleric all of which are in the 9 - 12 range. I think I need to tell you what "job" an arcane caster should be performing while in a party, his "job" is to buff fighters, do CC and to single shot high end mobs (because his dps vs. a single target is far greater than any combat class in the game) and from time to time yes he can drop a firewall to assist in DPS vs. large groups of monsters ( I say firewall because the SP - Damage ratio is far greater with that spell than any other AOE in the game) That in my OPINION is the proper way to play an arcane caster, I feel I should tell you why I don't like seeing fireballs thrown about, A)they break things, like doors (yay more mobs) they break coffins (great now we HAVE to fight that mummy) B) they grab massive amounts of aggro (great now we have to rez the wizard) or if he's got some shake n' bake skills (we have to chase mobs all over the place to get them off him) its funny that everyone is throwing out fictional numbers about how much dmg a fireball can do. I don't care how much damage it does, lvl 12 casters Scorching Ray does more, doesn't grant a reflex save and doesn't aggro everything in a room.

[quickgrif]

I killed Helos with an empowered and maximized fireball in one shot and his cronies were smears as well. HAs anyone else done this? It was on Elite.

[Blazer]

my current main is in fact a fighter, but I also play a cleric all of which are in the 9 - 12 range. I think I need to tell you what "job" an arcane caster should be performing while in a party, his "job" is to buff fighters....

/looks at post #2 in this thread.

Yep, I was right. :D

[Mindspat]

throwing out fictional numbers about how much dmg a fireball can do. I don't care how much damage it does

'nuff said. No point in arguing with the town drunk.

[cforce]

Jumpin' jiminy, another narrow, unilateral post?

Fireball, like almost everything in the game, has situations where it should be used, and situations where it should not. Being able to distinguish between those situations is a sign of a good player. Seeing a poor player use it inappropriately and extrapolating that it should *never* be used is not.

[Mercules]

That in my OPINION is the proper way to play an arcane caster

Sorry... didn't ask for it, don't care for it, dismissed it.

I use Fireball and Lightning Bolt. I don't have either in my spell slots. Why do I use them? Cheap and easy damage from FREE wands. All I have to do is pick up collectibles, toss out the crappy ones, and take the proper ones to the proper people. I get tons of wands this way. I also get handed wands by other classes.

Fireball -may- draw agro, but those times when I want mobs in my Firewall and the melee crew is too dense to fight in the Firewall I'll just throw out a Fireball, get all the spare mobs and keep them in the Firewall. Yes I can survive the agro I draw without healing from the Cleric.

When low on SPs I'll whip out the Lightning Bolt wands and start hitting 2-3 mobs at a time. I'll line up my targets so that I'm hitting 2 mobs that are agro'd on someone else. Instead of standing around waiting for the next call of, "Haste!"

My task(notice I don't use Job as that is what people pay me to do, this is recreation) or goal is "troubleshooter". If the situation calls for Haste, you will get your Haste. If the situation calls for a Firewall, that is what will be cast. Web? Cast. Fireball(and yes they exist) Cast. Scorching Ray? Cast. Cloudkill? Cast. Meanwhile you are going to be buffed with whatever Resistance you might need, Blur, Jump, and/or Haste.

If you don't like my use of Fireball you can drop group or kick me, you are not allowed to tell me I can't use it. You might "suggest" I not use it in a particular instance, but not just, "Don't Fireball."

[Dark_Helmet]

i'm getting pretty tired of arcanes dropping fireballs and I thought I should tell them that scorching ray is a waaaay better spell, and firewall rules them both. So if you are entertaining the idea of fireballing something, you should think of firewall for all your AOE needs and scorching ray for your "need to nuke" needs.

P.S. Arcanes need to haste like Divines need to heal, remember that :P

..this is why I hate the forums. I GOT pretty tired of the VERY UNconstructive criticisms by know-it-alls.

Therefore I will troll the same back to ya:
Scorching Ray is a RANGED TOUCH ATTACK on a SINGLE target so it can fully miss while Fireball is area effect, where SEVERAL creatures can take full or 1/2 (unless they have evasion of course). "Firewall" or the properly named WALL OF FIRE has a longer refresh time, so you can't spam them as often as the other two spells.

QED

[Aranticus]

my very first character was an arcane caster, so you folk who think I haven't played one or don't play one are sadly mistaken :( my current main is in fact a fighter, but I also play a cleric all of which are in the 9 - 12 range. I think I need to tell you what "job" an arcane caster should be performing while in a party, his "job" is to buff fighters, do CC and to single shot high end mobs (because his dps vs. a single target is far greater than any combat class in the game) and from time to time yes he can drop a firewall to assist in DPS vs. large groups of monsters ( I say firewall because the SP - Damage ratio is far greater with that spell than any other AOE in the game) That in my OPINION is the proper way to play an arcane caster, I feel I should tell you why I don't like seeing fireballs thrown about, A)they break things, like doors (yay more mobs) they break coffins (great now we HAVE to fight that mummy) B) they grab massive amounts of aggro (great now we have to rez the wizard) or if he's got some shake n' bake skills (we have to chase mobs all over the place to get them off him) its funny that everyone is throwing out fictional numbers about how much dmg a fireball can do. I don't care how much damage it does, lvl 12 casters Scorching Ray does more, doesn't grant a reflex save and doesn't aggro everything in a room.

if you want to state an opinion, why post it in the discussion forum? or are you trying to start another "hastebot only" thread? so what if a fireball break coffins? i've seen fighters smashing every coffin in wiz king even when we have mentioned not to break any. using a spell is a science which you prolly have yet to master. if i know my fireball will break a door to 20 angry mobs, i'll not use it.

what spell is cast depends on the situation. if i want mobs dead quick ie 2 reavers, i'll throw a haste for the tanks. i personally find it a waste to haste a group just so they can take down 1 mob. i do not use scorch ray as often. as another player mentioned, they can miss. even should you fireball not hit directly, the mob will still get splash damage.

about jobs or tasks, as another player mentioned, it is the fighters job to fight. but it IS ALSO HIS/HER job to survive. look into any soldier's full pack, you'll find a first aid kit, can he/her not bring one and just wait for the medic to patch him/her up? if my fighter can wear resist cloak, i dun see how your's cant put on one.

ps: i think you play in riedra if i'm not wrong. just a warning in case you group with my wiz. i'm not YOUR hastebot

[kensihin_Himura]

That may be the way you feel MisterT, but never tell people how to play unless they ask you. This is a game and people are going to play it the way they want to. So if you dont like how certain people are playing don't play with them.

[rivnen]

I have only 1 thing to say to this-I've been in a party with half the people dead or nearly dead and the cleric more worried about running away so he could come back to heal after the wipe, I slowly picked off agro with MM, then having about 8 mobs following me proceeded to fireball them-I spent 100 mana did 300 damage to each of them killing them and then told the cleric to come back and rez people.

Edit: Another thing I noticed-and take note I play both a 12 paladin, 12 wizard and 12 bard-if you want buffs other than resists ASK THE BARD bards buff-thats there job and use. If you want resists ask the arcane or cleric. otherwise let the cleric heal and the arcane nuke-there damage output does help considerably.

[Aranticus]

I have only 1 thing to say to this-I've been in a party with half the people dead or nearly dead and the cleric more worried about running away so he could come back to heal after the wipe, I slowly picked off agro with MM, then having about 8 mobs following me proceeded to fireball them-I spent 100 mana did 300 damage to each of them killing them and then told the cleric to come back and rez people.

Edit: Another thing I noticed-and take note I play both a 12 paladin, 12 wizard and 12 bard-if you want buffs other than resists ASK THE BARD bards buff-thats there job and use. If you want resists ask the arcane or cleric. otherwise let the cleric heal and the arcane nuke-there damage output does help considerably.

you'll like it when you play with me... i never ask for haste. if i get it, i get it, if not i'm fine.... unless its some tough boss ie house p vamp that i need to get max attack bonus then i'll ask for em

[smithers]

I killed Helos with an empowered and maximized fireball in one shot and his cronies were smears as well. HAs anyone else done this? It was on Elite.

Yeah, I'm responding to you, not the OP, who doesn't deserve a response for a couple different reasons.

I did Von3 yesterday - quick run for dragon prep. My character has only 10 levels of sorcerer, so his fireball is not even maxxed (fireball scales better with level than firewall)

When each of the three doors opened up I threw in a fireball and poof! Trolls, casters, everybody gone. I got a kick out of it cause I remember a time when that was a tough fight.

When I played my wizard, firewall was my favorite spell. Yes, you can block a door and kill most things that want to come through. But on my sorc, with fast casting, spamming fireball is simply the quickest way to clear most rooms. I don't use ray all that much anymore - usually to take down a lone fireball survivor or to 1-shot ice flensers.

The only legit. reason to complain about fireball would be somebody who's burning your webs or who is drawing aggro they can't afford - and that's a complaint about a bad caster, not a bad spell. Anyways, I'm not surprised if the OP gets grouped with a lot of bad players, since that's what happens when you have more attitude than brains. Mmmm brains :eek:

[Crabo]

Haha!

I have personally watched one of the casters in my guild hit a pack of mobs for 1500-2000 points of damage with a single fireball. Yep, it is worthless.. :rolleyes:

Scorching ray isn't going to hit for anywhere near that amount of cumulative damage.

Scorching ray is good for sniping though as it is easier to manage aggro..

Firewall is fantastic as well, but the fireball is better for the big quick burst damage when you need it. Like to clear out a room full of ice reavers??

So you get to see the combat log of that caster in your guild? How do i switch that option on?
I think theres a greater possibility that you pulled those numbers straight out of your azz.

[Bombalo]

So you get to see the combat log of that caster in your guild? How do i switch that option on?
I think theres a greater possibility that you pulled those numbers straight out of your azz.

While those numbers would be a bit high for a single shot spell if you empower it and maximize your fireball and hit a group of 8-10 baddies with it these numbers are not all that inflated, they would be overall damage done to the entire mob however not just to one target.

[Missing_Minds]

I think I need to tell you what "job" an arcane caster should be performing while in a party, his "job"....

That in my OPINION is the proper way to play an arcane caster

Your first line there is the exact reason why you are getting so much greif from us. You are coming off as a "know it all" and I don't know many people that like to play with people such attitudes. If you had started off with the second line, you'd be in a much better condition. *shrugs* If that is all that *you* want to do as a caster, then play your caster in such a fashion. I'll be too busy killing, buffing, and helping out more than your play style would suggest and in turn having much more fun than your "OPINION" as you put it, would allow me to have. Incidentally, I die less than your average fighter and keep party wipes from happening.


its funny that everyone is throwing out fictional numbers about how much dmg a fireball can do.

The proper term there is "non-fictional". Just because you do not know how to get numbers that high does NOT mean it is not possible. I've done it, but it is not worth the cost to me to continually do it.

[Missing_Minds]

Therefore I will troll the same back to ya:
Scorching Ray is a RANGED TOUCH ATTACK on a SINGLE target so it can fully miss while Fireball is area effect, where SEVERAL creatures can take full or 1/2 (unless they have evasion of course). "Firewall" or the properly named WALL OF FIRE has a longer refresh time, so you can't spam them as often as the other two spells.

Actually, in DDO, any ray is a "line of sight" attack. If they are in your direct line of sight, they are hit. No roll to hit at all. It is why in this game, casters (and this is my opinion if you want to min max it) shouldn't worry at all about dex, worry about str only so far as to be able to carry the 5 full plates you are bound to pull (dam I hate that in the tables), and pump up Con to the max as well as your primary casting attribute. Unless a change is coming at some point, there are no ranged touch attacks that I have ever been able to find and I've been playing pre mod 2, My friend who has been playing since beta agrees with me.

[Ziggy]

you know ive been reading this since the OP wrote this and i still havent figured out what the strategy portion of his text was.

[The_Saint]

Middle of Wiz King Elite.

Fire Wall and web in place. 70 SP

Fighters holding them in place. 0 SP

One Avenger breaks free and heads towards caster. 1 OH @^$% moment

One well placed Fireball. 1,250 pts of damage to a single mob.
Priceless

[Indrn_Fretgoop]

Make a bard! You can cast it on yourself so you can charge fourth and melee. You expect arcane spell casters to not use damage dealing spells!? That's like asking my cleric not to use slay living on elite elder beholders in invaders! That's just..just.. wrong! Not enough people give bards credit! Want haste? Get a Bard..

[Missing_Minds]

you know ive been reading this since the OP wrote this and i still havent figured out what the strategy portion of his text was.

Zig, I think you could boil it down to this. "I have a wizard also. I know what the only job you should do is. Now haste me, b____!" Granted I'm really simplifying it, but that is what I got out of it. Unless you are reffering to the "strategy" where he tries to get people on his side. in that case... yeah, there isn't any.

[Sybel]

How much do you all ant to bet that the OP is one of those zergbot fighters that clerics and casters all hate?

Fireball= not good?

What were you on when you wrote this? Fireball is a great spell for quick area damage, it sure works better than firewall for this. Firewall only works if you an keep the mobs in one place for a period of time, which just isnt likely unless you are blocking a door or hallway. Plus, fireball is great for a solo-ing wizard or sorceror. My wizzy tears through the von 3 pre quest by hstig thrugh to the end, then blowing up all 60 or so trolls with 5 or 6 fireballs. Heck, the only reason it takes that many is because of the limited area :P

So....dont tell people how to play, especially if you dont even play that class, and most importantly of all, carry your own **** haste pots if you want to zerg.

[Jermacide]

LOL

You're going to tell me an AOE that will hit as many enemies as I can manage to line up right for 300+ HP's damage is a waste? Okay.............how long would it take you to slash away that many HP's from just one mob? I can cast 3 fireballs in that time. So take a break, I got this one...... just bring your aggro you can't handle back to my firewall. Everything will be okay *pat pat*

[Aranticus]

How much do you all ant to bet that the OP is one of those zergbot fighters that clerics and casters all hate?

Fireball= not good?

What were you on when you wrote this? Fireball is a great spell for quick area damage, it sure works better than firewall for this. Firewall only works if you an keep the mobs in one place for a period of time, which just isnt likely unless you are blocking a door or hallway. Plus, fireball is great for a solo-ing wizard or sorceror. My wizzy tears through the von 3 pre quest by hstig thrugh to the end, then blowing up all 60 or so trolls with 5 or 6 fireballs. Heck, the only reason it takes that many is because of the limited area :P

So....dont tell people how to play, especially if you dont even play that class, and most importantly of all, carry your own **** haste pots if you want to zerg.

firewall can be used in other senarios. on my wiz, i'll cast expeditious retreat and jump on myself, then fog an area with 1-3 fogs (depending on size). get a tank to lure all the mobs back. when they are near you, buff with extended displacement and then chuck a emp, max, ext firewall in the middle of the fog and stand at the end of the fire. when they come near you, run along the edge of the fog, jumping as you go. what you effectively do is to kite them into a nice tight bundle. they'll stay in the fire as they are continously turning around a small radius. and when done nicely, you do not get hit at all.... :D

[Kamboe]

I play a sorc, so i know my fireballs..they dont suck that bad.
This is true for DPS: Firewall>Fireball>Scorching Ray
This is true for Damage in a second: Scorching Ray>Fireball>Firewall
This is True for Splash damage: Fireball>Firewall>Scorching Ray

I think this is close to how fireballs are calculated:

Fireball:
Normal:10d6
Superior Combustion 5:+5d6
= 30 mana 15d6
Maximized:+15d6
= 46 mana 30d6
Empowered:+15d6
= 61 mana 45d6
Attacking a Mummy:+45d6
= 61 mana 90d6 to Mummies and 45d6 to all other mobs
Critical Fireball(1.5 times the damage):+90d6 to mummies and +22.56 to all others
~TOTAL~ = 61 mana 180d6 damage(180-1080) to mummies and 67.5d6 damage(68-405 to all other monsters.

This may not be the correct way to calculate the damage but it is close if nothing else. I have personally hit a mummy for 1031 damage.
My brother has hit a mummy for 1131..this was before they nerfed fireballs to weaken them.

[Ekental]

Yeah, it's a bit inaccurate, but the general gist is preserved.

Spamming fireballs may not be the best way to complete a quest unless you're sure 1-2 shots will kill everything. It's inefficient and wastes SP.

Then again, using it to group every monster to run into your fog/firewall, symbol, or any CC spell combo can be very effective.

I'm sure there's a creative use for almost any spell.

I'm sure the OP meant to criticize the people who exclusively cast fireball and then proceed to hop in circles, spamming until they either die or run out of mana, and then are either useless for the rest of the quest or demand DVs.

[MisterT]

FINALLY Ekental you get it! thank you.

[Kyoteh]

FINALLY Ekental you get it! thank you.

Ekental was better spoken then you then. If that is what you ment, then you should state that without the broad, 'all you casters, yadda yadda' mandate.

Being specific in posts like this can be the difference between being completly understood for what you REALLY mean, rather then just being thought of and flamed for a, well...'jerk'.

Just my thought on it.

But if that is what you ment, it is a common flaw with a few casters, especially the -newer to the game/class- ones. Everyone has to learn and make a few mistakes though.

Keep that in mind for them and yourself..

Adios,
Kyoteh

[DRacol]

Being specific in posts like this can be the difference between being completly understood for what you REALLY mean, rather then just being thought of and flamed for a, well...'jerk'.

Just my thought on it.

But if that is what you ment, it is a common flaw with a few casters, especially the -newer to the game/class- ones. Everyone has to learn and make a few mistakes though.

Keep that in mind for them and yourself..



Well said Kyoteh.

[Riorik]

So you get to see the combat log of that caster in your guild? How do i switch that option on?
I think theres a greater possibility that you pulled those numbers straight out of your azz.

I'd agree Crabo. Typical fireballs for a caster would be 80-130 without criticals or metamagics. The variability comes from equipment and enhancements and just luck (just what did you roll after all?). Maximizing & Empowering obviously triple this figure (240-390) and criticals currently do a range depending on equipment & enhancements that (being generous) at least doubles that figure...putting the average critical fireball at 480-780. Against 10 enemies in a nice pile, that's 4800-7800.

These figures aren't intended to start any "mine are bigger" - this is just a comment about typical damage.

On the thread in general. The basis of the original posters comments and reinforcing arguments are, in fact, based on fact. All choices being available (no spells on timer) - if you need to kill a single target, Scorching Ray is da-bomb -- if you have many targets, Firewall is often your best choice.

However, the followup assertions that Scorching Ray & Firewall are ALWAYS the choice and you should never see anything else is naive, at best and demonstrates inexperience at worst. Casters - Wizards (and Sorcerors to a lesser extent) - really the players have to learn their most critical skill to play these classes well. Situational Awareness. Knowing when to do what. You're darn straight I'd greatly prefer to drop firewalls when I have a lot of creatures or know I'll have opportunities to drag enemies across them - however, sometimes I extend them and sometimes I use other combinations of Maximize and/or Empower. But when my Firewall is on timer, you're darn straight I'm going to toss a fireball into the middle of a pack of Mummies -- not necessarily to kill them so as to knock off a percentage of their health to help the melee's do their job that much faster.

And no, I don't usually fireball my own or anybody elses' Web - and while there's a chance I screwed up if I did, there's chance I just felt the situation required it anyways.

Not everything that you may feel is a mistake - is in fact, a mistake. And casters in PnP were never just a one-dimensional character who's effectiveness was only measured by the list of spells available to cast per day.

Nax

[digi]

sounds like another fighter that hates when someone else gets the kills,and wants someone else to take care of his needs such as haste. THATS WHAT HASTE POTS ARE FOR!~

[Draclaud]

[QUOTE=MisterT;1069150]I think I need to tell you what "job" an arcane caster should be performing while in a party, his "job" is to buff fighters, do CC and to single shot high end mobs QUOTE]

Are you freaking kidding me? Actually the "job" of a mage is similar to the fighters. Take down stuff as quick as possible. In ceratin situations that means casting a web/haste and letting the fighters hack stuff to bits. In others it's dropping a well placed FIREBALL on a mob. The key to not getting aggro is to wait till the monsters are ingaged with the mele's b4 you nuke.

Besides in your logic i should say it's the mele's "job" to intimidate the aggro off of me so I can nuke... Do your job man intimidate all the aggro off me to make MY job easier...

[Staedtler]

Fireball:
Normal:10d6
Superior Combustion 5:+5d6
= 30 mana 15d6
Maximized:+15d6
= 46 mana 30d6
Empowered:+15d6
= 61 mana 45d6
Attacking a Mummy:+45d6
= 61 mana 90d6 to Mummies and 45d6 to all other mobs
Critical Fireball(1.5 times the damage):+90d6 to mummies and +22.56 to all others
~TOTAL~ = 61 mana 180d6 damage(180-1080) to mummies and 67.5d6 damage(68-405 to all other monsters.


Your calculation for vulnerability to fire is incorrect. Mummies take 1.5x damage. source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#vulnerabilitytoEnergy) I'm also not sure how you got (1.5x crit) x (90d6) = 180d6.

Deflating these values gives 45d6 x 1.5 x 1.5 = 101d6 (101-606)


firewall can be used in other senarios. on my wiz, i'll cast expeditious retreat and jump on myself, then fog an area with 1-3 fogs (depending on size). get a tank to lure all the mobs back. when they are near you, buff with extended displacement and then chuck a emp, max, ext firewall in the middle of the fog and stand at the end of the fire. when they come near you, run along the edge of the fog, jumping as you go. what you effectively do is to kite them into a nice tight bundle. they'll stay in the fire as they are continously turning around a small radius. and when done nicely, you do not get hit at all....
My Sorcerer calls this "The Fire Dance."

I don't really think there's much more to be said here. Scorching Ray is great for spamming a single target, Wall of Fire is great for taking out multiple targets and Fireball is great for a group of things that need to die RFN.

[Strumpoo]

So you get to see the combat log of that caster in your guild? How do i switch that option on?
I think theres a greater possibility that you pulled those numbers straight out of your azz.

Uhhhh....No!

But he is in my guild and is completly fire spec'd, he was casting on a pack of Ice Reavers (Purple Numbers! Weak to fire! Imagine that!) and they all went "poof" and disappered.

I clicked on my Ventrillo button and asked him how much damage he did and he read off the numbers. It is called communication, you should try it sometime. :rolleyes:

Then again I am sure he could have lied to me, because his inflating the damge numbers he just cast would get him extra loot or something. :rolleyes:

I also play a level 13 caster so I know what type of damage, I do with my fire spells and I am not a fully fire spec'd caster....

[HumanJHawkins]

I think I need to tell you what "job" an arcane caster should be performing while in a party, his "job" is to buff fighters

I was giving you the benifit of the doubt until I read that... I think we can all now see that you are not smart enough to bother continuing the thread with.

You are not getting it. DDO is a GAME, not a job. The SOLE PURPOSE is to have fun. All of your arguments fail to consider this fundamental truth.

That said, I am out of here... What a wast of time.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Although the premise leaves much to be desired, for some reason I have to chuckle everytime I read the thread title.

[Glim]

i just wanted to call the op and idoit.
that is all

[Riorik]

Uhhhh....No!

But he is in my guild and is completly fire spec'd, he was casting on a pack of Ice Reavers (Purple Numbers! Weak to fire! Imagine that!) and they all went "poof" and disappered.

I clicked on my Ventrillo button and asked him how much damage he did and he read off the numbers. It is called communication, you should try it sometime. :rolleyes:

Then again I am sure he could have lied to me, because his inflating the damge numbers he just cast would get him extra loot or something. :rolleyes:

I also play a level 13 caster so I know what type of damage, I do with my fire spells and I am not a fully fire spec'd caster....

I think what you don't get is:

Maximum base fireball damage = 10d6 = 60 points.
Maximized = +100% Empower = +50%
Superior Item = +40% Best possible enhancement = +40%

60 *2 (maximize) * 1.5 (empower) * 1.4 (sup. item) * 1.4 (max enhance) =

352.8 Damage -- this is the absolute MAXIMUM DAMAGE the spell can do BEFORE vulnerabilities.

Adding in +50% for Ice Flensers = that's 529.2 Damage for the best possible random die roll possible.

From here it depends on criticals - given a Superior item (9% for 1.75x) then adding 4 bonus levels - that's 2.75x) which gives a final absolute maximum figure of 1455.3 damage.

Anything else is a bug or somebody not telling you the complete truth or somebody adding up the damage to each monster and presenting it as the total damage.

While I agree it is conceivable that somehow he rolled the improbable and did up to 1455 damage, he certainly didn't do 1500+. An average roll with all this occurring would be more like ~1100 damage.

[Darkschneider]

I think what you don't get is:

Maximum base fireball damage = 10d6 = 60 points.
Maximized = +100% Empower = +50%
Superior Item = +40% Best possible enhancement = +40%

60 *2 (maximize) * 1.5 (empower) * 1.4 (sup. item) * 1.4 (max enhance) =

352.8 Damage -- this is the absolute MAXIMUM DAMAGE the spell can do BEFORE vulnerabilities.

Adding in +50% for Ice Flensers = that's 529.2 Damage for the best possible random die roll possible.

From here it depends on criticals - given a Superior item (9% for 1.75x) then adding 4 bonus levels - that's 2.75x) which gives a final absolute maximum figure of 1455.3 damage.

Your numbers are off

Superior Combustion is a +50% damage bonus
Superior Lore items give a 9% +0.5x, which is 2x

The Crit multiplier would arise from 1.5x Base Crit + 0.5 Item + 0.75 3rd Tier Crit Line.

The theoretical Max for a Fireball is

60 * (1 + 0.4 + 0.5) * 1.5 * 2 = 320 dmg, 940 on a 2.75x Crit

Enhancements bonus' (items and enhancements) are additive not multiplicative. Metamagics are multiplicative.

A crit on a vulnerable mob with a maximum die roll gives 1410 dmg.

[Tiblorian]

sounds like another fighter that hates when someone else gets the kills,and wants someone else to take care of his needs such as haste. THATS WHAT HASTE POTS ARE FOR!~

Not that I agree with the op, and I do carry lots of haste potions, but its simply not effective to use haste pots(or plat efficient). It takes aprox 30 sp to haste for close 3 minutes. 95% of the time haste>fireball. 24% increase to melee dps, +1 to hit, +1 ac, and +50% movement speed. Its nieve to expect us to keep hasted with pots and clickies(i have 10 clickies and its still not practical, just haste us every 150 seconds, its not hard.)

[Black_Knight]

just haste us every 150 seconds, its not hard.

What? :eek:

Wow, well in that case... Just keep the aggro of me, it's not hard.
Or fight in the Wall of fire and Solid fog it's not hard...

I haste when I feel it's needed and not because I have to or it's my "job" and/or role... If you have the aggro and fighting in the WoF and SF, then it's only gonna take one maybe two Fireball (yep FIREBALL, cause all mobs are gonna be tight and packed around you) more and it will be all over.

Also, is it plat effective to ask a cleric to carry Raise Scrolls and Wands galore, not really, yet most do... So if you like you like to always be hasted, then do what you must!!!

Just because you want it, doesn't mean you're gonna get it.

And to the OP, well it's not even worth bothering answering a non intelligent, unconstructive and bably formulated post like that... And many already expressed what I thought!

Thanks
/out of here

[kaidendager]

Not that I agree with the op, and I do carry lots of haste potions, but its simply not effective to use haste pots(or plat efficient). It takes aprox 30 sp to haste for close 3 minutes. 95% of the time haste>fireball. 24% increase to melee dps, +1 to hit, +1 ac, and +50% movement speed. Its nieve to expect us to keep hasted with pots and clickies(i have 10 clickies and its still not practical, just haste us every 150 seconds, its not hard.)

I somewhat agree with you. While it isn't practical to chug haste pots every 30 seconds, it also isn't practical (or polite) to burden the Caster with hasting you every two and a half minutes no more than it is asking the tanks to intimidate after each cooldown. I tend to haste whenever I can or see the group in a hasting radius, but sometimes I miss it, sometimes I lag, sometimes I just don't want to waste the sp. My main is a pure crowd control specialist with only 3 damaging spells (firewall, lightning bolt and shocking grasp). If I think I can spend that 30 sp better than you can I reserve the right to FtS that bothersome caster, web the flood of mobs, Solid fog a choke point, Hold the Orange named fighter, etc. etc. Granted there aren't many quests where I struggle for sp anymore, but if I am headed in with the knowledge that I need to reserve and conserve you may have to hoof it from point A to point B.

Like I said, I do haste (I carry extend ONLY for haste), but I have a better view of the battle than you and I can make a better call of where to toss those 30 sp.

If I'm not on a caster I like to live by the general rule that I can expect 1 spell from the casters. If its a situation that definetly calls for haste (think of the Path of Madness on the way to Xorian Cypher), then I expect that and only that, webs/holds are optional after that point; BUT I do expect that much common sense from any higher level caster. If its a quest that requires holds (think of GC loot runs back in the day) then I expect the caster is at least trying to land holds on the right mobs, hastes optional.

Just my two cents, not trying to attack the quoted above just the general standpoint of the hastebot.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and to the OP: stop swinging that greataxe, its much more AC efficient to use a dagger. What do you mean has its uses?

[gothikraven]

Fireballs rock!

Scortching Ray rocks!

Firewall rocks!

Each one has its place.

What upsets me is the fool who's spamming their fireball wands of scrolls of Firewall on-top of my web'd mobs. That ****es me off more then anything else. When I see this happening I send a polite tell informing the offender I will be holding off from controling the mobs for the fighters to wack on - then send a tell to teh cleric to be mindful on who's effectively using spell points for potential DV - then let the fighters know who's spaming useless or counterproductive spells so they can let agro take due course. ;)

My Fireballs hit for 300-600 points of dmg, per target, when I use them, which isn't terribly often due to circumstances. Are you sure you'd want me to not dump that kind of dmg into 4-10 mobs with a single button press?

I can't totally agree with yer tactic there, i definitely try not to fireball mobs that are held with web, but I admit even the best player can tap the wrong hotkey... I have all my fire lined up side-by-side on a hotbar, Fireball right between firewall and Scorching ray...

As far as MistrT... that's yet another narrow-minded view of casters just supposed to be catering to what you think they ought to be... I'm totally fire specced and can switch to cold with the same exact efficiency. My fireball that you are saying are worthless can clear out a room of mobs in one hit and it's especially useful when you already have all the aggro from your firewall, you see most mobs at 1/10th health and they're firing arrows at your squishy self, you lauch an Empowered fireball with Potency and Combustion with a Inferno pot, and watch the whole crowd drop at 200-300 damage per hit....

As far as the save, enervation on the roguie types and the new spell waves of exhaustion pwns...

[gothikraven]

I'm sure the OP meant to criticize the people who exclusively cast fireball and then proceed to hop in circles, spamming until they either die or run out of mana, and then are either useless for the rest of the quest or demand DVs.

Funny, I usually use this tactic with wands while spamming firewall scrolls in the middle of a solid fog, which allows the tanks to pick out the softened up mobs one by one... but that's just crazy-talk...

I never demand DV at all, though I will ask if the cleric has any. If they don't, no biggie.

I think this thread was more or less started out geared towards a particular caster that probably wounded poor MisterT's ego by beating him in kills... it happens mang. I mean, ****, kills really mean squat... who really cares if I got a kill on a mob that had 5 HP left from splash damage from my fireball? Does it have some significant effect on my character? will I get any extra xp for it? will it even matter after everyone leaves the zone and the quest is over?

Nope, not at all :p

[MrCow]

you lauch an Empowered fireball with Potency and Combustion with a Inferno pot,

Had to comment on this before someone got the wrong idea. Potency, Combustion, and Inferno buffs do not stack with each other. You only take the highest out of the three types for fire spell damage modification.

[Aranticus]

Not that I agree with the op, and I do carry lots of haste potions, but its simply not effective to use haste pots(or plat efficient). It takes aprox 30 sp to haste for close 3 minutes. 95% of the time haste>fireball. 24% increase to melee dps, +1 to hit, +1 ac, and +50% movement speed. Its nieve to expect us to keep hasted with pots and clickies(i have 10 clickies and its still not practical, just haste us every 150 seconds, its not hard.)

sure no problem, i'll keep you haste every 150 seconds when you fight the BAM boss... oh 6 blackguards from the chest room? i'm sure with your +24% dps, +1 ac, +1 to hit and +50% to speed, you can deal with them. i'll stay at a safe spot and just haste you. i'm sure you dun need my solid fogs and my max, emp, ext firewall and max, emp fireballs that are boosted by gtr combustion and superior fire lore gear :cool:

[Redd]

MisterT,

hmmm considering my fireball is an aoe spell doing large amounts of damage on one cast to a considerable large number of targets for min sp, I totally see your point /sarcasm off

(Combat): Your fireball hit Mummy Avenger for 808 points of fire damage.
(Combat): Your fireball hit Mummy Avenger for 792 points of fire damage.
(Combat): Your fireball hit Mummy Avenger for 886 points of fire damage.
(Combat): Your fireball hit Mummy Avenger for 902 points of fire damage.

hmmm wish I didn't cast this and one shot all the mobs thus allowing the cleric to waste wands and sp on the tanks who would have incured damage among other things.........can't remember EVER seeing my scorching ray and wof do this, but hey, what do casters know:cool:

[Strumpoo]

I think what you don't get is:

Maximum base fireball damage = 10d6 = 60 points.
Maximized = +100% Empower = +50%
Superior Item = +40% Best possible enhancement = +40%

60 *2 (maximize) * 1.5 (empower) * 1.4 (sup. item) * 1.4 (max enhance) =

352.8 Damage -- this is the absolute MAXIMUM DAMAGE the spell can do BEFORE vulnerabilities.

Adding in +50% for Ice Flensers = that's 529.2 Damage for the best possible random die roll possible.

From here it depends on criticals - given a Superior item (9% for 1.75x) then adding 4 bonus levels - that's 2.75x) which gives a final absolute maximum figure of 1455.3 damage.

Anything else is a bug or somebody not telling you the complete truth or somebody adding up the damage to each monster and presenting it as the total damage.

While I agree it is conceivable that somehow he rolled the improbable and did up to 1455 damage, he certainly didn't do 1500+. An average roll with all this occurring would be more like ~1100 damage.



Jeezus....

Did you even read my post? I said he was casting on a PACK OF ICE REAVERS... AS IN MULTIPLE MOBS... He did over 1500-2000 points of damage to this mob with one cast. He did 500 to some, 400 to others....etc..

I play a maxxed caster, I know what kind of damage can be done as far as total damage. So I do "get it" ...:cool:

But if it makes people feel better to nitpick and try to find errors in posts then go ahead. :rolleyes:

Yes, I am sure my listening to him read off the numbers to me and my quick adding skills were waaaay off that day. Or maybe he just lied (to another caster, in his guild) to inflate his Epeen. :rolleyes:

[Eryck]

Simply put T was trolling to get people riled or really has no idea that people really play DDO to develop a unique character and just like in real like diversity and difference of opinion exists. Either way everyone must quit their current charecters. All clerics must respec as heal bots and all casters respec as buffers and everyone just be bored and wait the extra 2-3 hours it takes every quest to run while the tanks melee everything. Oh yeah and expect to give over all armor and weapons to the tanks cause we have no use for it, but since they need potions when we "screw up" as casters don't expect to get the caster items for them. In fact all casters need to just sit in a special part of town until the tanks come to select which casters they want to assist them in their questing.... yeah that's the ticket.
/insert Capehart speaking
if I role played heavily I would of course take offense to his comments and out kill him in every dungeon I chose to. I am sure I could.

/insert Cassie speaking
Heal yourself your egomaniac and I want 1K plat before each res... what your ghost cannot carry cash? why not?

[Darkschneider]

Simply put T was trolling to get people riled or really has no idea that people really play DDO to develop a unique character and just like in real like diversity and difference of opinion exists.

So you are ressurecting a dead thread to continue the trolling flamefest.

*thumbs up* Way to go! :rolleyes:

[Eryck]

You know when I looked at the whole forum it was the top thread in it so I did not even look at the date who woulda thunk it.... remind me to check all the dates before I speak lest I be branded a ressurector :0

[irivan]

PS my fireball does 500 POD and cleans up battles fast i haste when i decide it is best.

Just because you play with gimp casters who cant cast a real fireball does not mean only certain spells are valuable.

Oh and remember it is a game not a life or death situation.

[darkgolem]

i'm getting pretty tired of arcanes dropping fireballs and I thought I should tell them that scorching ray is a waaaay better spell, and firewall rules them both. So if you are entertaining the idea of fireballing something, you should think of firewall for all your AOE needs and scorching ray for your "need to nuke" needs.

P.S. Arcanes need to haste like Divines need to heal, remember that :P

Your post isn't supported very well, in my opinion.

Spells vary is usefullness, depending upon the situation. There are times where firewall is more effective for damaging a group of creatures, just like firewall is better in some circumstances. Scorching ray is probably a superior single target damage spell.

For example, if a group of opponents are scattered, you don't want to use firewall, because they won't so much be affected. In this case, if you have to choose between firewall, fireball and scorching ray, you want to use fireball. If you placed a firewall, maybe one or two would be affected, for less damage than fireball, and then it would be of less use. On the other hand, fireball would do more damage and probably affect more opponents. At the same time, scorching ray would be very effective against a single opponent, but multiple scorching rays would be less effective still.

Of course, it is very limiting using only damage spells.

For example, you could use a fireball to pull opponents to you, then, as your opponents run toward you, put down a point blank (at your feat) mass suggestion. Then your damage would be able to spread out ot many opponents, in the form of charmed opponents attacking uncharmed opponents.

There are tons of variables, and saying "don't use firewall, your wrong" is irrelevant, because it is a comment in the vacuum. It is like standing up in a theatre and saying "hey, no one use flour, that's wasteful". In some contexts, that would be true, in others, not true, and in most context's, including that of a theatre, insensible.

[Liberal_Gamer]

Clearly the original poster has never played a caster.

Fireball is excellent CC, so long as the mage doesn't suck.

Yes, I said CC. A monster that runs around chasing a hasted mage is effectively out of combat.

And there is no "save" vs Agro.
:)

[Sybel]

The OP needs to get off of his high horse. I cant evencount the number of times i have saved the parties bacon with a well placed fireball to wipe out a horde of enemies, or at the very least, grab the aggro before retreating to a solid fog bubble.

[Phage]

i'm getting pretty tired of arcanes dropping fireballs and I thought I should tell them that scorching ray is a waaaay better spell, and firewall rules them both. So if you are entertaining the idea of fireballing something, you should think of firewall for all your AOE needs and scorching ray for your "need to nuke" needs.

P.S. Arcanes need to haste like Divines need to heal, remember that :P



im sure someone has already said what im about to say, to lazy to read the whole thread.

first, fireball is good, in certain situations. i have seen my fireballs crit for way over 900 on mods that arent weak on fire and 2000 on mods that are weak on fire. its a mass target dps spell.

SR is a single target dps spell that i have seen go over 800 crits

FW is a stationary dps spell with huge dmg also.

Dont be hating because we can 10 kills to your 2 kills.

Anymore i find myself using PK/FoD more then any dps spells, atleast in GH. Everywhere else i will fireball everything, cause it dies.

We are not just haste bots, buy pots if you want perma haste.

[Phage]

Jeezus....

Did you even read my post? I said he was casting on a PACK OF ICE REAVERS... AS IN MULTIPLE MOBS... He did over 1500-2000 points of damage to this mob with one cast. He did 500 to some, 400 to others....etc..

I play a maxxed caster, I know what kind of damage can be done as far as total damage. So I do "get it" ...:cool:

But if it makes people feel better to nitpick and try to find errors in posts then go ahead. :rolleyes:

Yes, I am sure my listening to him read off the numbers to me and my quick adding skills were waaaay off that day. Or maybe he just lied (to another caster, in his guild) to inflate his Epeen. :rolleyes:

in my bio i have a fireball listed as 1489 and i have seen more then that.

[darkgolem]

in my bio i have a fireball listed as 1489 and i have seen more then that.


Heh I have seen well over 1500 fireballs since I started playing DDO.. heres on for you, I saw at least 500 magic missiles since I started playing, beat that! ;)

[Calebros_Soulhealer]

my very first character was an arcane caster, so you folk who think I haven't played one or don't play one are sadly mistaken :( my current main is in fact a fighter, but I also play a cleric all of which are in the 9 - 12 range. I think I need to tell you what "job" an arcane caster should be performing while in a party, his "job" is to buff fighters, do CC and to single shot high end mobs (because his dps vs. a single target is far greater than any combat class in the game) and from time to time yes he can drop a firewall to assist in DPS vs. large groups of monsters ( I say firewall because the SP - Damage ratio is far greater with that spell than any other AOE in the game) That in my OPINION is the proper way to play an arcane caster, I feel I should tell you why I don't like seeing fireballs thrown about, A)they break things, like doors (yay more mobs) they break coffins (great now we HAVE to fight that mummy) B) they grab massive amounts of aggro (great now we have to rez the wizard) or if he's got some shake n' bake skills (we have to chase mobs all over the place to get them off him) its funny that everyone is throwing out fictional numbers about how much dmg a fireball can do. I don't care how much damage it does, lvl 12 casters Scorching Ray does more, doesn't grant a reflex save and doesn't aggro everything in a room.

Ok first off, it is no one's JOB to do anything, most people play this game for fun. Not to be a min/max uber build, they use the spells they like to use for their character. And we all know the saying about opinions. Sounds like someone is mad because they got beat on the monster kill scorecard. :eek:

If you don't know Opinions are like ********, everyone has one.

[Lorein_Azura_Childs]

Every spell has its place :D .

Including:

Grease
Sleetstorm
Obscuring mists
Hypnotic Pattern
Glitterdust


I know the last two have a bit more respect lately, but I used to get negative comments about how people couldnt see and ect. :)

Nevermind that they didnt need to delve that deep into the nasty cc field and could have wittled away at critters from the outside of the crowd control spell. :D

Grease, what can I say, it actually does work on the lower end, just no one seems to have a decent balance score. and sleetstorm, well im sure it has a use. :)

[Chaoswf]

for a surprise because there is more than 1 way to play as a caster

[Chaoswf]

MisterT,

hmmm considering my fireball is an aoe spell doing large amounts of damage on one cast to a considerable large number of targets for min sp, I totally see your point /sarcasm off

(Combat): Your fireball hit Mummy Avenger for 808 points of fire damage.
(Combat): Your fireball hit Mummy Avenger for 792 points of fire damage.
(Combat): Your fireball hit Mummy Avenger for 886 points of fire damage.
(Combat): Your fireball hit Mummy Avenger for 902 points of fire damage.

hmmm wish I didn't cast this and one shot all the mobs thus allowing the cleric to waste wands and sp on the tanks who would have incured damage among other things.........can't remember EVER seeing my scorching ray and wof do this, but hey, what do casters know:cool:


i agree with redd here

[Jaywade]

[QUOTE=MrCow;1067676 The sad thing is they are most effective when you have swarms of critters and most parties don't seem to like watching the arcane caster hightail it after launching a big fat fireball or other damage spell. It gets kinda hard for the melee to melee running things. :D[/QUOTE]

your right that can be a problem.... I staring this games playing fighters and would see this many times...so I took matters in my own hands and built a sorc w/ 300 hp and maxed out fire power w/ the all the right enhancements and gear to melt/blast all those that might stand in my way..... I like to run way ahead pull the whole dungeon to a firewall jump up in the air turn around and cast 1 maybe 2 fireballs and wait for the rest of the party to catch up....it's fun .....

to the OP when you can get over 500 points of damage to each mob in a large grp of mobs in one blast it's not a waste...far from it

[wizzy_catt]

i'm getting pretty tired of arcanes dropping fireballs and I thought I should tell them that scorching ray is a waaaay better spell, and firewall rules them both. So if you are entertaining the idea of fireballing something, you should think of firewall for all your AOE needs and scorching ray for your "need to nuke" needs.

P.S. Arcanes need to haste like Divines need to heal, remember that :P
GET UR OWN HASTE POTIONS! my fireball does more dmg than my scroching ray. huh what now? sounds like ur spell book doesnt have spells in them. who says fw is only aoe spell to cast and scorching rays only nuke spell? you clearly knows NOTHING about being a caster. how about i tell your tank to /death and i'll carry your stone till the end of quest?

[Arnya]

Couple things:

- I run a capped sorc

- Her name is Torche

- Ask any guildie they know I know my fire damage :)

- I have SUP POT 6 and SUP fire/ice lore - no skiver yet :(

Max Fireball dmg to date: 1080HP

Max Scorching Ray dmg to date : 3 x 522 = 1566HP

Max Wall of Fire: 1144HP

Max Cone of Cold: 1293HP

All purple numbers on mobs. Not highest possible, just my personal records.

CONCLUSION: A heightened/maximised fireball or cone of cold into a group of mobs is the best overall damage solution. I make this statement because you must take the mobs to a firewall, but fireball/coc YOU TAKE THE FUN TO THEM!!!

[WeaselKing]

Do you like it when people tell you how to play whatever class it is you play? Yeah, I didn't think so. ;)


:rolleyes:

QFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chaoswf]

my fireballs on my mid lvl wf sorc do on a crit 450-500 non crit 250-300 so by all means say it sucks i wont stop using it no matter how much u think it sucks

[WeaselKing]

Max Scorching Ray dmg to date : 3 x 522 = 1566HP



You managed to get 522 on each ray!?! :o

[Arnya]

You managed to get 522 on each ray!?! :o

Aye, considering (I believe, from experience) each ray rolls seperately for criticals I was lucky.

Considering the amount of rays I throw about, it's bound to happen fairly often...

[wizzy_catt]

Aye, considering (I believe, from experience) each ray rolls seperately for criticals I was lucky.

Considering the amount of rays I throw about, it's bound to happen fairly often...

522 on what mob? im guessing ice or undeads

[Oran_Lathor]

This is a necro from April, of a post from a guy who'd been playing for like 2 weeks when he made the OP... LMAO.

[Arnya]

Mummies in desert.

As a side note, how many people knew that the 'entombed' undead in the desert are soft to cold damage?

Didn't think so... :)

(I stated these were purple numbers, how else would they be the 'highest' damage I have recorded lol)

EDIT: Necro FTW :)

EDIT2: Just checked my little records, Highest SINGLE ray = 830HP (purple dmg on mummy avenger) That would make nearly 2500hp dmg on triple crit. Ouch.

[wizzy_catt]

Mummies in desert.

As a side note, how many people knew that the 'entombed' undead in the desert are soft to cold damage?

Didn't think so... :)

(I stated these were purple numbers, how else would they be the 'highest' damage I have recorded lol)

EDIT: Necro FTW :)

yes mummys in desert are buggy i've seen over 2k dmg on my max empowered fw which im sure it was a bug. a good one :)

[Hvymetal]

This is a necro from April, of a post from a guy who'd been playing for like 2 weeks when he made the OP... LMAO.LOL was gonna say the same thing, guys stop arguing with the more than likely long gone MrT. "I pity the fool!!!"