vorpal tactics

[superjubei]

i just acquired a +1 vorpal falchion. it is the first weapon of its kind that ive had. for those of you with vorpal experience:

1) what creatures (specific to quest and difficulty) do you use it on?

2) what creatures (same) would you rather go straight damage on instead?

3) should i consider respecing to great cleave (have cleave alrdy) ?

4) does it require a confirm roll, like a crit, after i roll a 20? and if so, what can i do to help my chances (ill be around a +25 to hit w/out power attack)?

5) any other words of wisdom.

thanks for your time and have a great day.:)

[Kargon]

4) does it require a confirm roll, like a crit, after i roll a 20? and if so, what can i do to help my chances (ill be around a +25 to hit w/out power attack)?


yes. basicamally just anymathing that boost you tohit will boost confirm roll. along with any seeker enhancemaments/gear, like say a bloodstone trinkamet from the desermert which give +6 to confirm crit.

[Kattoo]

i just acquired a +1 vorpal falchion. it is the first weapon of its kind that ive had. for those of you with vorpal experience:

1) what creatures (specific to quest and difficulty) do you use it on?

2) what creatures (same) would you rather go straight damage on instead?

3) should i consider respecing to great cleave (have cleave alrdy) ?

4) does it require a confirm roll, like a crit, after i roll a 20? and if so, what can i do to help my chances (ill be around a +25 to hit w/out power attack)?

5) any other words of wisdom.

thanks for your time and have a great day.:)

Vorpal is a situational weapon. Best used on mobs that take a long time to kill, primarily mobs that can heal themselves repeatedly, or high HP mobs when in a low DPS group.

Also, Vorpal is nice in a no win situation. On two occasions when it looked like an absolute wipe, I have popped out the vorpal and dropped 4 to 6 mobs in a matter of seconds. In both cases it was pure luck, however, only a vorpal could have saved a complete wipe. A quick rez ring click and the cleric was up and rezzing. Don't count on this as a strategy, but it is nice to be the hero now and then.

The enhancement Critical Accuracy along with the Bloodstone, or if you are lucky enough a +Seeker Vorpal weapon are all things that will add to the confirm rating of your existing +to hit.

[Tanka]

Kattoo: No Seeker Vorpals exist. They're both prefixes, and you can only have one prefix.

[Aranticus]

vorpals are basically for elite mobs with large amounts of hps. if u need more than 20 strikes to kill a mob then a vorpal is definitely the weapon to use here. on a roll of 20 and a successful confirm roll, the mob would be dead. i've been in 1 super run where my wf buddy used a vorpal longsword..... 6 consec mobs died on his 1st attack

[Viza]

i just acquired a +1 vorpal falchion. it is the first weapon of its kind that ive had. for those of you with vorpal experience:

1) what creatures (specific to quest and difficulty) do you use it on?

It works fantastic on the dwarves in relic on elite, knolls, dogs, any flesh creature with a head.


2) what creatures (same) would you rather go straight damage on instead?

Bosses or anything else immune to crit (puddings, slimes, bony undead, ghosts, wraiths, etc.), PvP since most people have heavy fort.,


3) should i consider respecing to great cleave (have cleave alrdy) ?

Respec to everything that increases crit hits or confirms, great cleave if you have the points after this.


4) does it require a confirm roll, like a crit, after i roll a 20? and if so, what can i do to help my chances (ill be around a +25 to hit w/out power attack)?

Yes, and not competely sure.


5) any other words of wisdom.

Don't use it on quests where there are slimes or rust monsters ; ) In fact, put it in the bank when going on such quests, in case you hit the wrong button by accident.


thanks for your time and have a great day.:)

[Thrudh]

I've never really understood why vorpals are so sought after...

I mean, most of them are +1 weapons that are vorpal... no other special effect...

And then they only auto-kill on a 20... so 1 out of every 20 swings...

So it seems a vorpal is pretty worthless against anything that you could kill in 19 swings or less with a more damaging weapon..

Which I would think would be most critters... Or maybe I don't realize how many swings it takes to kill a BAM dwarf or a desert gnoll... (I've never tried to count my swings on them)

Seems like I'd rather have a Greater Gnoll Bane weapon than a vorpal when fighting gnolls though... Or at least, they seem fairly equal in power to me... Even if the vorpal is a better weapon, is it really worth 10-20 times the price of the Greater Bane weapon in gold?

Why do people pay so much for them?

[kafromet]

Or maybe I don't realize how many swings it takes to kill a BAM dwarf
With my +5 flaming burst Kopesh and another fighter(both 12s) attacking the same dwarf it seems to take us about 3 rounds to kill one. That's 15 attacks each at a VERY high DPS. So on average a vorpal would kill it faster.

[Tanka]

With my +5 flaming burst Kopesh and another fighter(both 12s) attacking the same dwarf it seems to take us about 3 rounds to kill one. That's 15 attacks each at a VERY high DPS. So on average a vorpal would kill it faster.
Unless they're somehow immune to Crits, which most aren't (been in groups with one person wielding a Vorpal, dropped 'em faster with it than without).

One of my guildies dropped six ogres in a row in Ghola Fan, somewhere around three-four swings on each. Sometimes you roll that 20 more often than 5% of the time.

[sparty55]

Funny story, a guildie and i were running Relic, full run. We both have vorpals and when we approached the first two dwarves in the entrance tunnel, we each took a separate dwarf to fight. Both of us rolled 20's on our first swings and the two dwarves lay headless at the door alomst instantaniously. What are the odds of that happening?

Also, we did a full run of Relic in record time, since we actually had 3 vorpals in the group. We did roll some 20's and unfortunately failed to confirm or it would have been faster...

[Aranticus]

think of this toon.... twf L12 rgr with precision, 34 dex, slash specced, finesse and dual wielding vorpal kukris.... i tell ya... thats SICK!

[Rokurgepta]

It works fantastic on the dwarves in relic on elite, knolls, dogs, any flesh creature with a head.

Bosses or anything else immune to crit (puddings, slimes, bony undead, ghosts, wraiths, etc.), PvP since most people have heavy fort.,

Respec to everything that increases crit hits or confirms, great cleave if you have the points after this.

Yes, and not competely sure.

Don't use it on quests where there are slimes or rust monsters ; ) In fact, put it in the bank when going on such quests, in case you hit the wrong button by accident.

Heavy fort wont stop the vorpal it will just stop the crit damage.

[rabrams99]

I was under the impression that a vorpal only works on a roll of natural 20. Is this true or is it on all crits?

[tihocan]

I was under the impression that a vorpal only works on a roll of natural 20. Is this true or is it on all crits?
Only a natural 20.

[Oxvon]

hey, I was wondering if you were to duel wield a seeker and a vorpal. would the seeker bonus be used with the vorpal, or does the seeker just apply to the weapon its on?

[tihocan]

hey, I was wondering if you were to duel wield a seeker and a vorpal. would the seeker bonus be used with the vorpal, or does the seeker just apply to the weapon its on?
The seeker bonus should apply to the vorpal as well.

[jpvfarmer]

think of this toon.... twf L12 rgr with precision, 34 dex, slash specced, finesse and dual wielding vorpal kukris.... i tell ya... thats SICK!

My fighter has a 30 strength, precision, slash feats, he's a dwarf so he has another +2 with axe attack. He duel weilds a vorp battle axe and a vorp kukri.

[Citymorg]

Kattoo: No Seeker Vorpals exist. They're both prefixes, and you can only have one prefix.

Then how do you explain my +4 Frost Flametouched Iron Rapier of Puncturing?

[Tanka]

Then how do you explain my +4 Frost Flametouched Iron Rapier of Puncturing?
Frost is the prefix. Flametouched Iron is what your rapier is made out of, instead of being standard steel or iron.

[Aspenor]

Frost is the prefix. Flametouched Iron is what your rapier is made out of, instead of being standard steel or iron.

asbsolutely :D

That's why this +2 holyburst adamantine scimitar of righteousness is PERRRRFECT

[Broto]

My +2 Vorpal Dwarven axe (recent gift from a friend) cannot wait to become a legendary weapon :D

[Aranticus]

My fighter has a 30 strength, precision, slash feats, he's a dwarf so he has another +2 with axe attack. He duel weilds a vorp battle axe and a vorp kukri.

unless you have gtr TWF, i doubt you have more than 4 attacks per round :D

[Dielzen]

1h = 0,0,5,10 = 4 attacks
TWF = 1,6,11 = 3 attacks

You get more than 4 with just TWF, ITWF is 6, GTWF is 7

[dns801]

actually youa re wrong... seeker vorpals do exist.


Kattoo: No Seeker Vorpals exist. They're both prefixes, and you can only have one prefix.

[geoffhanna]

Just curious but has anyone seen a vorpal bow?

I know there are disrupting bows oddly enough, I have one. Would not have expected that outside of the blunt weapon family.

p.s. against undead disruption is better than vorpal

[Tanka]

actually youa re wrong... seeker vorpals do exist.
Odd, care to take a screenshot of one to prove me wrong?

Last I checked, only Named Items could have multiple prefixes, and both Seeker and Vorpal are prefixes. And the only named Vorpal is in VoN1, which distinctly does not have Seeker on it.

[dns801]

Odd, care to take a screenshot of one to prove me wrong?

Last I checked, only Named Items could have multiple prefixes, and both Seeker and Vorpal are prefixes. And the only named Vorpal is in VoN1, which distinctly does not have Seeker on it.


sadly i cannot currently take a screen shot of it since it never was mine but i almsot had a trade for one b4. as for the second part of there only being 1 named vorpal in game... wrong again :P another in bam.

[dns801]

Just curious but has anyone seen a vorpal bow?

I know there are disrupting bows oddly enough, I have one. Would not have expected that outside of the blunt weapon family.

p.s. against undead disruption is better than vorpal

no there are no vorpals there has never been any vorpal outside the slashing family since you have to have a sharp blade to do so :P. and yeah disruption is better than vorpal on undead because undead cannot be crited and there for are immune to it.

[Tanka]

sadly i cannot currently take a screen shot of it since it never was mine but i almsot had a trade for one b4. as for the second part of there only being 1 named vorpal in game... wrong again :P another in bam.
OK, so that's two. Neither with Seeker. (I've never picked up Tesyus. Not a Paladin. ;))

With no screenshot, I'm claiming BS on your end. Find the guy that was gonna trade it and ask him to screenshot for you.

[Aranticus]

no there are no vorpals there has never been any vorpal outside the slashing family since you have to have a sharp blade to do so :P. and yeah disruption is better than vorpal on undead because undead cannot be crited and there for are immune to it.

undead are immune to vorpal effect as they do not need their heads to function. their bodies are animated by magical forces and thus non-living

[dns801]

Thats great if you CLAIM BS, but please dont give ppl false information...


OK, so that's two. Neither with Seeker. (I've never picked up Tesyus. Not a Paladin. ;))

With no screenshot, I'm claiming BS on your end. Find the guy that was gonna trade it and ask him to screenshot for you.


and thank you for claryfying the undead thing.. all i knew is you cannot vorpal them :P

[Lithic]

Supposedly minor vampires CAN be killed vorpally. I would have thought ghouls too since they are kinda intelligent undead, but I guess not.

[Naga_the_Serpent]

Vorpal is a prefix a.k.a. +1 Vorpal Dwarven Axe (the most commonly found vorpal currently) and Seeker is a prefix a.k.a. +1 Seeker Dwarven Axe. Unless the item is a specially named item (like Sword of Pain), having two prefixes on one item is not something that will drop without a bug happening in game. There are currently two named weapons with vorpal in them as quest items.

Do not take the feats Cleave / Great Cleave / Whirlwind to use with your vorpal weapon. Your natural 20 roll (and confirmed crit roll) will only slay one creature within your threat range in DDO no matter how many creatures you hit with that natural 20 while using one of the 3 afore mentioned feats (tested and confirmed).

Any item you can equip that has the Seeker mod on it (off hand weapon, armor, trinket) will give you a bonus to the confirm your crit roll, thus increasing your chance to vorpal legitimate targets.

Per the Devs, Vorpal can only drop on Slashing and Piercing weapons (as intended from PnP rules). Ranged weapons are in their own catagory and will not spawn with the Vorpal mod.

Hope this helps,
Naga the Serpent

[Aranticus]

Supposedly minor vampires CAN be killed vorpally. I would have thought ghouls too since they are kinda intelligent undead, but I guess not.

i was looking at the animated undead aka skeletons/zombies/mummies

[Tanka]

Per the Devs, Vorpal can only drop on Slashing and Piercing weapons (as intended from PnP rules). Ranged weapons are in their own catagory and will not spawn with the Vorpal mod.
Slashing only, actually. No Piercing vorpals exist.

[vyvy3369]

Do not take the feats Cleave / Great Cleave / Whirlwind to use with your vorpal weapon. Your natural 20 roll (and confirmed crit roll) will only slay one creature within your threat range in DDO no matter how many creatures you hit with that natural 20 while using one of the 3 afore mentioned feats (tested and confirmed).
I was under the impression that Cleave/Great Cleave at least make separate attacks against each target within range. Occasionally I'll Smite multiple golems at the same time with them, so I guess I'll have to go play with my vorpal some more and test.

[dns801]

Do not take the feats Cleave / Great Cleave / Whirlwind to use with your vorpal weapon. Your natural 20 roll (and confirmed crit roll) will only slay one creature within your threat range in DDO no matter how many creatures you hit with that natural 20 while using one of the 3 afore mentioned feats (tested and confirmed).

Naga the Serpent

actually cleave and great cleave does work on vorpal but requires 2 seperate 20 rolls and 2 seperate confirms so chances of hitting it ar every slim though i have had it happen once as well as a couple on others on my server.

[Rydlic]

Just to clerify:
Someone said that you have a 1 in 20 swings chance to vorpal. Yes and no. You have a 5% chance to vorpal every swing as no swing looks at or is dependent on the other swings you have done. The Percent to Crit is the same every swing and never goes up or down.

Now as to when I use my Vorpal. Elite Renders, yeah I have cold iron/good but over all they fall faster as I will roll a 20 in the 12-20 swings need to kill. Also as a warforged it helps that I don't gather much agro this way as I'm only doing 4-10 damage. Any time you have a high DPS character with you, pull out the Vorpal and got to town. You can make fights go very quick sometimes.

[Protagoras]

Just to clerify:
Someone said that you have a 1 in 20 swings chance to vorpal. Yes and no. You have a 5% chance to vorpal every swing as no swing looks at or is dependent on the other swings you have done. The Percent to Crit is the same every swing and never goes up or down.



Just to clarify this a bit more.

There is a 1 in 20 (or 5%) chance for EACh swing to be a Vorpal chance. Its not that in each sequence of 20 swings, 1 will be vorpal and 19 will not. Its possible in 20 swings all 20 will be vorpal (meaning a chance to sever head). Its just highly unlikely.

Some things that are true

The expected value of vorpals in a 20 swing sequence is 1

if Pv(n) is the probability of experiencing n vorpals in a 20 swing sequence then Pv(1) > Pv(x) x is an element of {0,2-20} or said another way the single most likely outcome in any 20 swing sequence is one 20.

Anyone care to calculate Pv(1) :)

[kaidendager]

Sorry, there are a few quotes in this thread i absolutely couldn't pass up :) I'm not trolling I promise, I just found the first two quotes humerous.



Funny story, a guildie and i were running Relic, full run. We both have vorpals and when we approached the first two dwarves in the entrance tunnel, we each took a separate dwarf to fight. Both of us rolled 20's on our first swings and the two dwarves lay headless at the door alomst instantaniously. What are the odds of that happening?

1:400 20*20 = 400


Unless they're somehow immune to Crits, which most aren't (been in groups with one person wielding a Vorpal, dropped 'em faster with it than without).

One of my guildies dropped six ogres in a row in Ghola Fan, somewhere around three-four swings on each. Sometimes you roll that 20 more often than 5% of the time.

Sometimes you roll less, but on the average you will roll something that is 5% 5% of the time. No use changing probability's definition. :p


I've never really understood why vorpals are so sought after...

I mean, most of them are +1 weapons that are vorpal... no other special effect...

And then they only auto-kill on a 20... so 1 out of every 20 swings...

So it seems a vorpal is pretty worthless against anything that you could kill in 19 swings or less with a more damaging weapon..

Which I would think would be most critters... Or maybe I don't realize how many swings it takes to kill a BAM dwarf or a desert gnoll... (I've never tried to count my swings on them)

Seems like I'd rather have a Greater Gnoll Bane weapon than a vorpal when fighting gnolls though... Or at least, they seem fairly equal in power to me... Even if the vorpal is a better weapon, is it really worth 10-20 times the price of the Greater Bane weapon in gold?

Why do people pay so much for them?

This is a very good point, but there are alot of monster types in the game. If you should be lucky enough to have greater banes of all monster types than by all means go with it, but this would cost you a lot more than a single vorpal weapon. Personally I prefer having a rather standard set of equipment so for someone like me, the single vorpal would be better. For the more hardcore player, attaining all greater bane weapons would be a very worthy endeavor.



As for getting cleave it won't make much of a difference on the whole. If you accept that you will confirm a vorpal effect on every 20 you have a 1:20 chance each swing. Swinging against X opponents would result in a vorpal 1:X*(1/20) times and a complete vorpal 1:20^X. Swinging individually will give you nearly the same effect in most endgame situations where you won't have 20 kobolds swarming you around you.

[dns801]

i use a vorpal almost exlcusively on my tank it is a kukri. with the right build choices i have a 52 confirm crit meaning if i roll a 20 you die no questions asked unless i roll the other 5% ( a 1)... as far as questing goes i almsot always have to highest kill count meaning my vorpal hits more than the greater baners....i'd choose vorpal over bane any day on a mob the vorpal works on. NUT greater banes are most definately nice for them nasty red names :P

[DesertBlue]

And the only named Vorpal is in VoN1, which distinctly does not have Seeker on it.

Actually there are 2 named vorpal in the game. I do tend to think that there are no seeker vorpals out there.

[Tanka]

Actually there are 2 named vorpal in the game. I do tend to think that there are no seeker vorpals out there.
Right, I forgot about the one in BAM, as I have no Paladins and thus have never picked it up. ;)

But, no, no Seeker Vorpals exist.

[dns801]

lol think again..

[smithers]

...

This is a very good point, but there are alot of monster types in the game. If you should be lucky enough to have greater banes of all monster types than by all means go with it, but this would cost you a lot more than a single vorpal weapon. Personally I prefer having a rather standard set of equipment so for someone like me, the single vorpal would be better. For the more hardcore player, attaining all greater bane weapons would be a very worthy endeavor.


My tank carries way too many swords: a complete set of elemental greater bane 2-handers, a +2 vorpal greatsword, and the sword of shadow, as well as a bunch of high-end bastards.

Obviously I like to switch it up. He can do massive damage but the vorpal is just fun. I usually save it for high HP mobs and for casters that heal themselves. I'll put it away if there are 3 other tanks beating things down so quick that I don't have time to get the 20's, but generally if I'm getting 5 or so swings off then it speeds things up. Since I have gr. THF it also does decent damage, so I get a lot of kills that way or with the splash damage, but I think it's the drive-by beheading that makes it so fun :)

[kendo]

actually cleave and great cleave does work on vorpal but requires 2 seperate 20 rolls and 2 seperate confirms so chances of hitting it ar every slim though i have had it happen once as well as a couple on others on my server.

this was also recently confirmed by a dev in another thread. feats that use separate to hit rolls, like cleave, can activate vorpal's special on a crit on multiple foes. feats that do not use separate to hit rolls, like glancing damage from two hand weapon fighting, cannot.

[Jepox]

Feats like cleave, greater cleave and whirlwind will give you more chance to vorpal lots of mobs.

[Grenfell]

Something to consider.

Vorpal is rarely a great weapon for a DPS build -- though I use one on my DPS fighter situationally.

It IS, however, a fantastic weapon for a defensive Tank build with the right enhancements/items.

For example, if you were to do a Intimidate Tank with some ranks of Crit Accuracy and Seeker trinket, I could see taking the -7 to hit/confirm by going CE and Tower Shield. In that case, you may very well be far better off by using a vorpal weapon -- a 20 is a 20, and you have crit confirm ability.

Of course, you can't do that with a Falchion, but... something to keep in mind.

/gren

[fenzer]

Help me out here. But as I see it, the ability to confirm a critical hit has nothing to do with the critical threat range of the weapon. The critical threat range of the weapon only applies to the initial attack roll. So if my long sword has a critical threat range of 19-20, I will threaten a critical if my 20 sided die rolls a 19 or a 20, and that the 19 + attack modifiers are sufficient to hit the target. My understanding is that a natural 20 is always a hit.

Now confirmation of the critical threat has nothing to do with the threat range of the weapon, as it as already come into play. But instead a standard attack roll + all applicable modifiers must beat the target armor class. If the the confirmation roll suceeds, you have scored a critical hit and may use the damage modifier of the weapon, x2, x3, x4, toward the damage delt in the attack.

So what I'm asking is this, how does a large critical threat range effect the probability of a successful vorpal attack? Since a natural 20 is required on the initial attack roll when the critical threat range would normally be applied. And since it has no bearing on the confirmation roll, it would seem to me that the critical threat range has no bearing on the success of a vorpal attack.

Please let me know if I missed something or if DDO follows a different rule set than PnP. I would love to have confirmation one way or another as I traded a vorpal scimitar, threat range 17-20, 13 -20 after my critical rage II, for a vorpal great axe, threat range 17-20 after critical rage II. I like great axes. :)

Thanks.

[Tanka]

So what I'm asking is this, how does a large critical threat range effect the probability of a successful vorpal attack?
It doesn't. The only thing that helps you confirm that crit is your attack bonus.

The reason I like wide crit range vorpals is for when you can't roll that 20. You're still critting and doing more damage, but until that 20 lands, you're stuck with straight damage.

[Crarites]

My experiences with a vorpal described below

You can confirm a critical on a roll of 1 for the confirm.
Cleave and great cleave are wonderful combined with vorpal.
Don't bother attempting to vorpal neckless aberrations... aka beholders
The orange vampire bosss in POTP can be vorp'd
In any elite quest where the level of the quest exceeds character level, I'm better off using a vorpal so long as you can auto-confirm every critical roll and my oppponent isn't a slime,rust monster,beholder,golem or undead other then a vampire.

[Tanka]

You can confirm a critical on a roll of 1 for the confirm.
Wrong. A 1 in combat is an autofailure, no matter what.


Cleave and great cleave are wonderful combined with vorpal.
Nope. Works nicely with Whirlwind Attack though.

[Crarites]

Wrong. A 1 in combat is an autofailure, no matter what.


Nope. Works nicely with Whirlwind Attack though.



You are incorrect on both counts.

a 1 on a confirm check is not an auto-failure.
Cleave and great cleave will both proc weapon affects and are easier to get into then whirlwind attack. However whirlwind is nice to have in addition to cleave and great cleave.

[Aranticus]

mod 4 introduced a change to checks. when you roll a check ie balance, SR, etc, 1 is no longer auto fail and 20 is no longer auto pass.

funny thing is why aint no one take item defense? the vorpal is gonna be your best friend and you are going to use it for almost everything... and its rare.... can u afford to damage it? unless u have extras of coz :D

[Phage]

get two, swing them fast.

[Merjon]

Just FYI for the one thing I can add to this.

Due to FIRST HAND knowledge and testing, I know that both vorpal and paralyzing effects CAN happen to multiple opponents in a single cleave.

I assume this applies to great cleave and whirlwind, but I'm only speaking from FIRST HAND experiencce.

[Xhedos]

I just looted my 2nd Vorpal, a kukri. Use that in the offhand and my Vorpal LS main. I focus on speed, haste with fighter haste stacks so use that for sure. Have +6 crit confirm and power crit slash. I'm a GTWF build so this all works out perfect. Again it's speed and number of attacks that make the difference here. Whatever you can do to get more chances at that confirmed 20 makes Vorpal kills viable. Also on a side note. As previously stated you get your best bang for your buck on high HP mobs. Don't waste your time on trash mobs unless it's an elite setting

[Missing_Minds]

Just FYI for the one thing I can add to this.

Due to FIRST HAND knowledge and testing, I know that both vorpal and paralyzing effects CAN happen to multiple opponents in a single cleave.

I assume this applies to great cleave and whirlwind, but I'm only speaking from FIRST HAND experiencce.

I can speak on great cleave. Its wonderful to see two oger magi vanish from a singular great cleave. :)

[Fael]

Play what ppl would call a battle bard. My current favorite combo is dual weilding a +2 vorpal kukri with a seeker(+10) shortsword. Its nice to be in the upper half of the kill count :D

[Rokurgepta]

I just looted my 2nd Vorpal, a kukri. Use that in the offhand and my Vorpal LS main. I focus on speed, haste with fighter haste stacks so use that for sure. Have +6 crit confirm and power crit slash. I'm a GTWF build so this all works out perfect. Again it's speed and number of attacks that make the difference here. Whatever you can do to get more chances at that confirmed 20 makes Vorpal kills viable. Also on a side note. As previously stated you get your best bang for your buck on high HP mobs. Don't waste your time on trash mobs unless it's an elite setting

So i see i am not the only stacking haste with fighters haste.

[Lorein_Azura_Childs]

I think me and Rokurgepta's cleric are happy just to get a random 20 in and I find it amusing running a vorpal cleric :) .

[Cinwulf]

Play what ppl would call a battle bard. My current favorite combo is dual weilding a +2 vorpal kukri with a seeker(+10) shortsword. Its nice to be in the upper half of the kill count :D

Close to my set up on my finesse Ranger: a vorpal kama (no im not proficient :p ) a +10 seeker hand axe and precision. With the extra attacks and a 30 dex still slaughtering mobs even on elite :)

[Cruzer]

Kattoo: No Seeker Vorpals exist. They're both prefixes, and you can only have one prefix.

only one prefix? what about vorpal flametouched iron greatsword?

[Cinwulf]

Flametouched iron is a metal type not a prefix, iirc. Metal types are certainly possible on vorpals.

[Jakylpops]

I have a vorpal dwarven axe of righteousness that I use with my dwarven tactician. I have spring attack/whirlwind, stunning blow and improved trip plus almost all the +DC enhancements for dwarves and fighters.

I usually start most large fights by activating fighter haste, leaping into the middle of the pack and doing a whirlwind, then immediatly target the most dangerous mob (usually a caster) and try for a stun, then trip if the stun fails.

Spring attack is awesome, especially with the new RUN AWAY RUN AWAY monster AI, it's basically a +4 to confirm when you're chasing something and it's great for my build because I don't have to come to a stop when tripping and stunning.



The only drawback to Vorpals is they obsolete 90% of the cool toys you've spent all this time collecting:rolleyes: .

[Cambo]

I assume since we can now have banishing etc on returning weapons (I have a banishing returning dart of puncturing) we could see a ranged vorpal. returning handaxe is slashing.......

Also I have read a few comparrisons on dps vs vopral here and stas etc but didnt see anyone mention that while if you take more than 20 swings to kill something then you are better off vorpaling.

I would have thought that because 50% of vorpal kills will happen in the first 10 swings the benefits of reduced combat time etc (ie save mana etc) would mean if you cant kill it in say 15 hits "Vorpal" it...

Now back to the backpack to see if my halfling has picked/borrowed up a vorpal returning axe without realising it....

[Aranticus]

I assume since we can now have banishing etc on returning weapons (I have a banishing returning dart of puncturing) we could see a ranged vorpal. returning handaxe is slashing.......

Also I have read a few comparrisons on dps vs vopral here and stas etc but didnt see anyone mention that while if you take more than 20 swings to kill something then you are better off vorpaling.

I would have thought that because 50% of vorpal kills will happen in the first 10 swings the benefits of reduced combat time etc (ie save mana etc) would mean if you cant kill it in say 15 hits "Vorpal" it...

Now back to the backpack to see if my halfling has picked/borrowed up a vorpal returning axe without realising it....

he just said it in a different way


I've never really understood why vorpals are so sought after...

I mean, most of them are +1 weapons that are vorpal... no other special effect...

And then they only auto-kill on a 20... so 1 out of every 20 swings...

So it seems a vorpal is pretty worthless against anything that you could kill in 19 swings or less with a more damaging weapon..

Which I would think would be most critters... Or maybe I don't realize how many swings it takes to kill a BAM dwarf or a desert gnoll... (I've never tried to count my swings on them)

Seems like I'd rather have a Greater Gnoll Bane weapon than a vorpal when fighting gnolls though... Or at least, they seem fairly equal in power to me... Even if the vorpal is a better weapon, is it really worth 10-20 times the price of the Greater Bane weapon in gold?

Why do people pay so much for them?

[Cambo]

he just said it in a different way

Im not going to work out the numbers so its just opinion.

just re read the line you highlighted...meant to tie closer with the follow up paragraph...my poor proofreading.

The quote you highlighted says they would rather damage than vorpal....I would rathar vorpal for those times they drop in 10 hits or less..Now if I could only find one to let me try it ;)

Still cant see anyone complaining about a vorpal returning axe.....

[Aranticus]

dps vs vorpal is actually a contest between chance and guarantee. say with a dps weapon, you do 50 points of dmg and with a vorpal you do 25. a 200 hp mob would require 4 swings for the dps weapon to kill, 8 for the vorpal. you are guaranteed with the dps that you can kill it in 4 swings. however, with a vorpal, you have a 5% chance of killing it per hit. sometimes you get lucky, you vorpal it on the the 1st roll, sometimes not.

when you are faced with a 2000 hp mob, things becomes slightly different. you need 40 swings to kill it with the dps weapon, 80 with the vorpal. however, going by statistics, you are likely to roll a 20 within 20 swings (ie 1/20) so you are likely to vorpal it before it can be killed by raw damage. however, there is still a chance that you might not even roll a 20 in that 40 swings.

i have a vorpal and i can safely say 1 thing.... when things go bad, i almost never seem to be able to vorpal the mob. i still prefer my paralyser

[Lithic]

.... when things go bad, i almost never seem to be able to vorpal the mob. i still prefer my paralyser

At a DC of 17, pretty soon (if not already) your paralyser will only hit on a mob save of 1, which makes it about as effective as a vorpal, cept it woulda been dead :D

[Cambo]

At a DC of 17, pretty soon (if not already) your paralyser will only hit on a mob save of 1, which makes it about as effective as a vorpal, cept it woulda been dead :D

actually much less effective...need to roll to hit first with the paralyzer
so if you hit on a 10 the need them to roll a 1 ouch thats 2.5% paralyzed instead of 5% dead....(assuming any vorpaller has seek set so confirmations a formality)

[Aranticus]

At a DC of 17, pretty soon (if not already) your paralyser will only hit on a mob save of 1, which makes it about as effective as a vorpal, cept it woulda been dead :D

so far it still works as well in gianthold elite content.

i dun have a problem hitting or confirming with a buffed attack roll of 40+, i have the problem of not rolling enuff 20s :D

[Daedalis]

I've never really understood why vorpals are so sought after...

I mean, most of them are +1 weapons that are vorpal... no other special effect...

And then they only auto-kill on a 20... so 1 out of every 20 swings...

So it seems a vorpal is pretty worthless against anything that you could kill in 19 swings or less with a more damaging weapon..

Which I would think would be most critters... Or maybe I don't realize how many swings it takes to kill a BAM dwarf or a desert gnoll... (I've never tried to count my swings on them)

Seems like I'd rather have a Greater Gnoll Bane weapon than a vorpal when fighting gnolls though... Or at least, they seem fairly equal in power to me... Even if the vorpal is a better weapon, is it really worth 10-20 times the price of the Greater Bane weapon in gold?

Why do people pay so much for them?

The best example I know of for getting a Vorporal is the Vampire or demon queen in Prison of the Planes. I just got a +2 vorporal longsword and I'm able to take out the vampire in a few minutes on elite.

[Eldun]

I love 'em on the razor cats

Just luck but I always seem to land Vorpal on the rakshash... the running joke is it's their extremely fat heads

My favorite current vorpal quest is Madstone, tons of baddies in the choke holds where we cast fog

I run with a +3 Vorpal Dwarven Axe (yeah it's RR: Elf) but the feat was sooo worth it stacked with a bloodstone and all the enhancements for crit confirmation.

[Strakeln]

Bosses or anything else immune to crit (puddings, slimes, bony undead, ghosts, wraiths, etc.), PvP since most people have heavy fort.Heavy fort doesn't block the vorpal effect. I hear death block/death ward does, though.

[Onysablet]

Heavy fort doesn't block the vorpal effect. I hear death block/death ward does, though.

Just wondering... how would deathward which protects against negative energy and death effects protect you from getting your head cut off? Vorpal isn't really a magical death effect, its just a sharp accurate cut to the neck, technically. I could be wrong though I haven't looked up the description of the vorpal effect in DDO.

[Fael]

Heavy fort doesn't block the vorpal effect. I hear death block/death ward does, though.

not sure about deathblock, but deathward does. Tested this is PVP with some cleric guildies. I'd crit, they'ed laugh, I'd cry.

[~Bandage]

I break out the vorpal when in a guild group and not keeping up in kill count... get a few lucky rolls of the dice, and I catch right back up :)

(yes, I know kill count doesn't matter, but it's something fun to watch and give each other a hard time about)

[Balkas]

You can still deal some decent damage with Power Attack and a 2 Handed Vorpal.

I'll usually bust it out if there's a big mixed group of mobs that make it difficult to get the most effectiveness out of your Greater Banes (Twilight Forge Purple Side, for instance).

It's also nice to use against the Ogre Magi, since vorpaling them will prevent them from doing their little teleport thingie.

I'll also use it against things with DR, like Rakshasa and/or Razor Cats.

It's handy in Prison of the Planes :).

[HumanJHawkins]

vorpals are basically for elite mobs with large amounts of hps. if u need more than 20 strikes to kill a mob then a vorpal is definitely the weapon to use here. on a roll of 20 and a successful confirm roll, the mob would be dead.

This is (theoretically) no longer true... Vorpal was never meant to work on glancing blows, and the release notes seemed to indicate that it no longer does as of 4.1.

Can anyone confirm or refute this?

Thanks!

[Aranticus]

This is (theoretically) no longer true... Vorpal was never meant to work on glancing blows, and the release notes seemed to indicate that it no longer does as of 4.1.

Can anyone confirm or refute this?

Thanks!

quoted the wrong person? :p

[Zyklon]

Close to my set up on my finesse Ranger: a vorpal kama (no im not proficient :p ) a +10 seeker hand axe and precision. With the extra attacks and a 30 dex still slaughtering mobs even on elite :)

Why would you need Precision? A 20 is a hit.

-

[GeneralDiomedes]

Why would you need Precision? A 20 is a hit.

-

But to confirm the critical, isn't that like another TH roll?

[GeneralDiomedes]

Heavy fort doesn't block the vorpal effect. I hear death block/death ward does, though.

This seems the opposite of what you would expect .. don't you need to confirm a critical hit for the head to roll?

[Tanka]

But to confirm the critical, isn't that like another TH roll?
Yes, it is.


This seems the opposite of what you would expect .. don't you need to confirm a critical hit for the head to roll?
You do. It is not, however, an on-critical effect. It is an on-20 effect with the need to confirm as per a critical. Very different.

(And, to my knowledge, heavy fort doesn't stop a burst effect, does it?)

[Jakylpops]

Yes you do need to confirm the 20 as a crit (make another to hit roll using the exact same numbers + any seeker/confirm crit bonuses).

If this were not the case you would see casters running around perma hasted, dual wielding vorpals, swinging at anything that moves while they wait for their FoD timer to cooldown...it doesn't work, believe me I tried:rolleyes:

[Aranticus]

a confirmation check is not a to hit roll. turbine changed the way checks work. for a save or an attack roll, a 1 is an auto-fail and a 20 is an auto-pass. for checks, 1 is not an auto-fail and 20 is not an auto-pass. my fighter's confirmation bonus is 40-50+, most mobs do not have an ac so high. my confirmation is almost always confirmed. so if i roll a 20, the mobs is going to die

[Latin83]

1st Question: with invisibility spell, i notice that the monsters tend to still know that I am present and they walk towards me and start attacking. I am assuming this is becuase they can hear me. So my question is, do they get a penalty to hitting me becuase I am invisibile?

2nd Question: With the fog spells, ex. fog cload, acid cloud, cload kill...so on. Do these spells also affect your companions that are in the cloud adn if so how are the advantagious to you if they also deal damage to you or also give concealment to the enemy?

3rd Question: A continuation of the above question, what is an effective way to use these cloud spells in combat situations?

[Gelandor]

Bosses or anything else immune to crit (puddings, slimes, bony undead, ghosts, wraiths, etc.), PvP since most people have heavy fort.,


I know this is really not the point of this thread, but I thought I would point out that Heavy Fort does NOT stop vorpal in DDO. Deathward DOES stop vorpal in DDO. Also, a recent ruling by the Sage (@ Wizards of The Coast) which stated that Heavy Fort does stop vorpal in P&P was recalled by WOTC, stating that Vorpal is indeed a magical death effect, which is not stopped by fortification.

Whether or not I agree, I am not sure, but this IS how it works :)

[FluffyCalico]

I've never really understood why vorpals are so sought after...

I mean, most of them are +1 weapons that are vorpal... no other special effect...

And then they only auto-kill on a 20... so 1 out of every 20 swings...

So it seems a vorpal is pretty worthless against anything that you could kill in 19 swings or less with a more damaging weapon..

Which I would think would be most critters... Or maybe I don't realize how many swings it takes to kill a BAM dwarf or a desert gnoll... (I've never tried to count my swings on them)

Seems like I'd rather have a Greater Gnoll Bane weapon than a vorpal when fighting gnolls though... Or at least, they seem fairly equal in power to me... Even if the vorpal is a better weapon, is it really worth 10-20 times the price of the Greater Bane weapon in gold?

Why do people pay so much for them?
well when you dual weild vorpals you know how many attacks a TWF gets per round? lol

[Baron]

Per the Devs, Vorpal can only drop on Slashing and Piercing weapons (as intended from PnP rules). Ranged weapons are in their own catagory and will not spawn with the Vorpal mod.


Well, Slashing throwing weapons can come with Vorpal.

I have toons with throwing vorpal axes and vorpal throwing stars. If you get one put it on a ranger and watch it clean out the mobs in the titan when they are all in one row for fun.

Multible lops, :}

[jerryxenon]

Unless they're somehow immune to Crits, which most aren't (been in groups with one person wielding a Vorpal, dropped 'em faster with it than without).

One of my guildies dropped six ogres in a row in Ghola Fan, somewhere around three-four swings on each. Sometimes you roll that 20 more often than 5% of the time.

Nice! I have a tempest ranger w/ 4 fighter levels Zuess, when I hit that fighter attackboost lol i,m not kidding I have dropped 15-20 mobs in Part4 when you get on a roll it can be a sight to see

[Tanka]

You guys do realize this thread is almost a year old, right?

[Thrudh]

You guys do realize this thread is almost a year old, right?

Heh, yeah! Quit quoting me as a noob because I thought vorpals weren't all that great against gnolls in the desert a year ago!

Both my melees use vorpals now in the Shroud :)

[Fishy]

For my TWF Strength-based Tempest Ranger, my experience is that mobs die faster when dual-wielding wounding weapons (not w/p, unfortunately) rather than dual-wielding vorpals, in groups with at least one other melee character. This is just my opinion, and isn't based on anything more than my unscientific feelings. This is dependent on the Constitution scores of the mobs, of course.

I think this is because the wounding stacks with other melees doing straight damage. Also, casters who use spells with Fortitude saves also benefit. I'm sure that someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

With my Vorpals, I hardly do any damage, and it's kind of embarassing to be beating on a mob for what seems like forever, waiting for the 20 + confirm crit to process.

I've never tried to solo any higher end content to see if Wounding weapons kill faster than Vorpals. I actually rarely use my vorpals, except for the vampire in PoP. Maybe I just prefer consistency over the luck of the dice.

But after reading this thread, I kind of have an itch to go dual-vorpal stuff now. :D

[kingfisher]

throwing out the non-vorpal situations and considering just the times you would use a vorp weapon; which TWF combo do you find to be most effective?

vorp/vorp + bloodstone/mentau's (ok obvious choice but the bloodstone is tough to pull)
vorp/vorp
vorp/+8 or +10 seeker
vorp/paralyzer
vorp/cursespewer

i use the vorp/vorp combo, but find i get nearly as many kills with the vorp/seeker combo. i nearly always use the vorp/para when soloing.