Anyone willing to write a "saves" guide?

[Jhoran]

Has anyone written a guide that details what saves work against what types of attacks?

In addition; when are saves high enough. Is there a point where my reflex save is high enough that I no longer need to use the trapblast or spec ops?

If all your saves are at 20; does that mean I'll only fail on a 1?

[Viglin]

Dont really need a guide for Saves, least to answer your questions....thou maybe one day someone will make a Saves guide...

Fortitude=saves vs poison, disease, physical restriction[Hold Person, Flesh to Stone], Blindess and most physical harming spells

Will=saves vs, fear, mental control and inflictions, i elieve the Inflict wound spells[thou not sure why ld have thought Fort myself],etc

Reflex=saves vs traps, elemental attack spells, Web, etc

As for high enough saves, well most spells have a dc of 10+spell level+Stat, so with a 20 in all saves youd be looking good[least bs magic], but never hurts to be higher....and as the quests get higher level, youd have t oasusme Trap saves would get harder, as would poisons etc.

And yup, rolling a 1 is always a save fail.

[Gimpster]

Has anyone written a guide that details what saves work against what types of attacks?

Will saves- mental stuff. Charm, Fear, Hold, Dance, Command. Also Inflict.
Reflex saves- damaging blasts. Fireballs, lightning, cold rays, traps, web.
Fortitude saves- unhealthy stuff. Poison, disease, Slay, Disintegrate, Stun. Also Sunder.


In addition; when are saves high enough. Is there a point where my reflex save is high enough that I no longer need to use the trapblast or spec ops?
Yes, there are situations where your saves are so high that you only fail on a natural 1 regardless of what items you use. But it's hard to know exactly when that it, so it's safer to keep the items on. (Unless you're a wizard or chaotic, it is very unlikely you'll find better goggles than Spectactular Optics)



If all your saves are at 20; does that mean I'll only fail on a 1?
Absolutely not. If you go into PvP against a typical level 12 drow wizard and he casts Hold Monster on you, the save DC is 10 base + 10 intelligence + 5 spell level + 1 spell focus feat + 1 spell focus item = 27. With a Will save of 20, you must roll a 7 or better to withstand the spell.

I've noticed that traps in level 13 quests can have a DC over 25, and a Marut's Thunder Punch Stun is a Fortitude DC of over 28.

[Jhoran]

Thank you both,

That helps me out.

Jhoran

[daddio42]

While the previous posts contain some good, anecdotal information, I concur with OP that a "Saves" guide (along the lines of the "Guide: Is my <insert rogue skill> high enough?" thread), would be very welcome.

[Steejan]

Good information in this post,

Does anyone know which stat is used for the saving roll on the Giant's stomp attack?

For the life of me, my poor Paladin has one heck of a time staying on his feet when this attack is used on him. :eek:

Thanks for the info. :)

[ananigma]

Giant Stomp is a Strenght Save. Balance is what allows you to get back up.

As far as Web, that's also a Strenght save.

[Ninety]

Good information in this post,

Does anyone know which stat is used for the saving roll on the Giant's stomp attack?

For the life of me, my poor Paladin has one heck of a time staying on his feet when this attack is used on him. :eek:

Thanks for the info. :)

if your str is higher, it's a str thing. If your dex is higher, it's a dex thing. Threnal encounter area giants have a stomp dc of around 15 I think.

[Steejan]

Cool, great info thanks!

[Phesic]

As far as Web, that's also a Strenght save.

To break free, yes.

The initial save is a Reflex.

[Skooter_WRX]

Here is my take on saves and what you would need to succeed most of the time. This is mainly against Mobs in dungeons and I will list something separate for PvP below. This will be mainly versus spells because trap DC’s are preset and difficult to determine.

These are things effected by each type of save
Fortitude- Disease, Poison, Soundburst, Blindness, Slay living, Sunder, Stunning blow, Disintegrate, Flesh to Stone. Things that would effect your physical body.

Reflex- Traps, Glyphs, Lightning Bolt, Naics, Fireballs, Flamestrike, Comet Fall, Web, basically any AOE spell.

Will- Charm, Fear, Command, Hold Person, Curse, Slow, Dance, inflict wounds, Harm

So to give you a rough estimate of the DC of most spells a good way of looking at it would be like this. Since you have to have a certain stat score to cast a spell you could theoretically take half of the level of the spell to figure out the minimum of the spell DC for DDO I would just assume to round up because the DC’s tend to be on the higher side.

So lets take Flesh to Stone which is a 6th level spell and has a fort save to resist.
+10 Base Spell DC
+6 Level of the spell
+3 Modifier bonus (minimum)
----
19 which would be the minimum spell DC.

Most casters however don’t just have the minimum stat score. I would roughly say that you can take the minimum spell DC and add +2 for normal, +4 for Hard and +6 for elite. This will probably vary depending on the CR of the dungeon but it’s better to estimate higher.

For instance I have a 21 will save unbuffed on my cleric and running around on Relic on elite I was greater commanded because I rolled a 2. Which means that the spell DC is higher than 23. I then had greater heroism cast on myself which gave me a 25 Will Save, I again rolled a 2 and saved this time which means that the spell DC was 24 or 25.

So greater command is a lvl 5 Spell and I was on elite so I would say that the DC broke down like this.

+10 for base spell DC
+5 for spell Level
+3 for caster stat (1/2 of spell level rounding up)
+6 for difficulty
----
24 is a good estimate for the spell DC. This would estimate that the person casting it has a stat score of 28 which looking at most of the players out there isn’t too far fetched.

So you ask what the minimum your saves should be to always succeed except for a one? I think that using this type of calculation is a fairly good way to figure that out. Personally to be able to only fail on a 1 your saves need to be in the low to mid 20’s. It’s rare to find a spell caster that has a higher DC than that. As far as traps go a guildie of mine has an evasion build with reflex saves in the low 20’s and he says that it is rare to fail on a trap.

Now for PvP this is a completely different story. Most casters are min/max builds which means that their primary casting stat is going to be completely maxed out.

So you figure for a lvl 10~12 caster they are going to have a base starting stat of 18~20 for lvl 10 add +2 for levels and +3 for lvl 12 and +3 for the enhancement. They will probably have a primary stat booster so add +4 to their primary score. This gives the average lvl 10-12 caster a casting stat of 27 to 30. This gives them a +7 to +10 to their spell DC.

Many casters will also have a spell focus either on an item or via a feat. So add +1 to the spell DC for that.

So to figure out what you are going to need to roll to beat that lvl 12 wizard casting hold monster on you this is what you would do.

+10 for base spell DC
+5 Spell Level
+10 for their Stats
+1 for their SF
---
26 will probably be the minimum spell DC.

My cleric has 32 wisdom, 2 Spell focus feats and an item. So the DC of my greater command is 29 which is pretty much the highest you can get on a lvl 5 spell (until they come out with +2 items). There may be some wizards spec’d out to get a DC of 30 (34 intel) but they will be pretty rare. If you add heighten to anyone of these spells the DC (no matter of spell level) would become 31.



*Disclaimer*
These calculations are based solely on my observations and not statistical data. Although I do watch my dice quite often there are things I will miss. If there are things here that you do not agree with please feel free to comment. This is for everyone to help them make a better well rounded character.

[dx8976]

+10 for base spell DC
+6 Spell Level (heighten)
+12 for their Stats (34)
+2 for their SF (greater)
+1 from item

31

[Skooter_WRX]

Good point I forgot about heighten. I will change that.

Thanks

[Zyklon]

Good information in this post,

Does anyone know which stat is used for the saving roll on the Giant's stomp attack?

For the life of me, my poor Paladin has one heck of a time staying on his feet when this attack is used on him. :eek:

Thanks for the info. :)

Block is your friend on that one.