32 point build in character generation

[paul1devries]

Question:
When i am looking to build a new character with 32 points from the 1750, it look slike you get 28 points when using drow and 32 points for human and elf etc.

Is this correct? if so, does it take away any benefit the drow had to elf?

[cforce]

There was a thread on this a while back -- my take is that there are still some builds that will be better with a 28-point Drow, and others that are better with a 32-point Elf. Neither one is going to be better than the other in *all* cases.

[Swordalot]

Question:
When i am looking to build a new character with 32 points from the 1750, it look slike you get 28 points when using drow and 32 points for human and elf etc.

Is this correct? if so, does it take away any benefit the drow had to elf?

1) Yes, it is correct.

F) The drow loses its stat advantage buy 4, but stays ahead by 2, and still has spell resistanceto think about.

IX) Drow still kick regular elves' skinny little butts, in my opinion.

[squiddaddy]

no, even with 32 pointbuy drow still have the minmax edge. if you exploit their stat bonuses you will end up with higher total stats.
it's a common mistake to think that 4 statbuys are equivalent to the drows superior stats, they are not.

example
32 point elf bard
str 12
dex 16+2
con 12-2
int 10
wis 10
cha 16

28 point drow bard
str 12
dex 16+2
con 12-2
int 8+2
wis 10
cha 14+2
leaving 2 stat points to spend. the gain is bigger the higher you are taking your +2 stats.

personally i don't think all this matters too much to be honest, just forget it all and go halfling for the short shall inherit the earth.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Very well spelled out squiddaddy. Because the +attributes are applied after creation points are spent (for calc purposes, but shown during creation), Drow have no equal in terms of creation point total. You have 3 stats that can be raised to 16 for 1pt each and 17-18 for 2pts each.

Now to draw connection to the other thread, you would need a 34pt build to equal the creation points of a well crafted 28pt drow. Even then with other races, you still lose out on Spell Resistance. Then it would be down to other racial feats/enhancements to balance out the races, not creation point power.

[whysper]

To expound, the 32-point builds' extra points are best spent in your
'dump stats', for example raising Con from 12 to 14 and Wis from 8
to 10 or something, rather than pushing another stat to 18 which
is a waste exactly because of the higher point cost.

Drow do not get 32 points nor do they need it--just make sure you
do your favour gathering on your drow character :)

[Laith]

it's very simple: for min-maxing 32 build < race

if you want the highest stats, the race with bonuses to those stats is probably best.

for more balanced characters, 32pt build probably wins out (at least the races start to balance out more).

basically, it's still better to work with a race's strengths than against it's weaknesses

[pcgammerm]

remember people the spell resistance is nice at the start, but later into the game that resistance isn't that big of a deal. it is over come by higher spells.

but i will say in my opinion drow will still be the best choice for casters in general, even clerics. on the other hand for a fighter.... it depends on your build, if you are looking for high hp then drow and elf are not the way to go.

with the 32 point builds you can get much better con with a diff race and be able to boost something else while you are at it.

[Nash]

apparently people are having issues with math normal builds are 28 points drow are 30 points due to the fact they have extra bonus and only one negative...

the 1750 is a 32 point build for any character slot you want to re-roll

my beef is that you work a character to lvl 10+ with 1750 points then are forced to reroll it to remake it as a 32 point build


they should have allowed all the non drow 28 point builds to re-adjust there point with the extra 4 points for all the accouts existing characters....

:mad:

[Mad_Bombardier]

apparently people are having issues with math normal builds are 28 points drow are 30 points due to the fact they have extra bonus and only one negative... :mad:My previous comments in other threads about Drow being a 30pt build were incorrect. I thought that +stats were added before creation points were spent and that is incorrect. They are showed in the total, but creation points are spent as if the racial bonuses were not yet added. So, for your racial bonus stats creation point cost is 8-16 = 1 pt, 17-18 = 2pts, 19-20 = 3 pts.

That said, Drow get 3 bonuses and only 1 negative, which would make them a 32pt build not 30. Further, squiddaddy illustrated with a 32pt elf vs a 28pt drow that the Drow in fact has 2 extra points to spend, effectively making it a 34 pt build. You can buy 16 for DEX, INT, CHA and start with +2 = 18 each for few creation points.

[Emili]

To put things in light spend points are not what makes a total base character... base + spend points do.

Let me turn the light on here...

Drow: with 28 spend points
8 + 10 + 6 + 10 + 8 + 10 + 28 = 80

Human: with 28 spend points
Human 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 28 = 76

Human with 32 spend points
Human 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 32 = 80

You will find all races except drow come out to 76 and in all fairness turbine had recognized that drow had the 4 point advantage - btw - not a good thing to do for end-game in your campaign, makes it hard on the DM really. Still drow to a min/maxer still has the edge... unfortunately dorw as designed by turbine is still the better elf - whereas in true DnD they are not.

[Veltkreeg]

Drow are an excellent choice for any class that requires DEX, CHA, or INT because they start at 10 in each. That means you can get to 16 for 6 points instead of 10.

Also they can start with 20 INT/CHA unlike any other race.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Emily, on the surface you are 100% correct. And it would hold true IF all stat increases cost the same number of creation points. What you neglected to figure is the creation points per attribute increase. For a Human to increase a stat from 8-18 it costs 16 creation points. For a Drow (or any race) to increase a racial bonus stat (DEX, INT, CHA in the case of Drow) to 18 costs only 10 points. The difference is that you can make a Drow with more average stats of 14-16 (18 for racial stats) than any other race.

Squid's example with a Drow (28) vs Elf (32). The elf gets 4 more creation points, but those 4 points don't have the purchasing power of drow racial bonuses (which are a flat stat increase regardless of how high the stat is/creation point cost). Doing the same build for each, the drow (using his racial bonuses) can achieve the same stats as a 32pt elf with 2 creation points to spare.

[Zenix_Leviticus]

I think I am missing something here....

stat point increased cost?? I have never noticed this..

I will check it out.

[Mad_Bombardier]

In character creation, it takes 1 creation point each to go from 8-14, 2pts each for 15-16, 3 pts each from 17-18. While shown in the total from the beginning, racial bonuses add AFTER you spend all your build/creation points. So, a human costs 16 creation pts to increase a stat to from 8 to 18. An Elf only costs 10 creation pts to raise DEX from 8-16, then gets +2 = 18 for free saving valuable creation points for other stats. Or, can spend the same 16pts for 8-18 and gets +2 = 20 (max). Likewise, increasing a negative racial stat gets more expensive. 6-12 = 1 pt each, 13-14 2 pts each, 15-16 (max) = 3 pts each.

Another way to think about it is the first 6 point increases in each stat cost 1 creation point each, 7 & 8 cost 2 pts each, 9 & 10 cost 3 pts each.

[theedtwo]

i would say a drow would be a good wiz/sorc because u can incresse their intell up to 20 at lv 1 so my lv 1 drow wiz had 200 sp right off the bat so i would go with a drow wiz or sorc

[BlueLightBandit]

Another way to think about it is the first 6 point increases in each stat cost 1 creation point each, 7 & 8 cost 2 pts each, 9 & 10 cost 3 pts each.

This is all that was needed to say.

Drow have higher starting stats (as posted above), and higher possible max starting stats in three areas. Since they start with a 10 in Dex, Intel and Charisma, their max possible starting stat in those areas is 20, as opposed to a humans 18.

Every race outside of humans (which start with all 8 before you add points in) has a good stat and a bad stat. Dwarves get +2 to con, but -2 to charisma, so a dwarves max starting stat in con is 20, but his/her max starting stat in charisma is 16.

So a drow is a good character for classes based on dex, intel or charisma, but not con, and only if you actually maximize those stats at character gen. Otherwise it basically has the same starting point as a 32 point build.

Don't forget also, that neither drow nor warforged characters get the option of having a dragonmark now. So consider feat/enhancements/abilities later on down the line when building your character.

And anybody who thinks one character is "better" than another is just plain silly. Character creation is one of those things that is special do DnD, and one of the things that makes this game great. You can build a dwarven bard if you want, take the hit to charisma, but make something DIFFERENT, and not be stuck with cookie cutter builds like everybody else.

So anybody that uses the term "better" in applying a general bias to one character/class over another based on race really doesn't understand this game at all.

[Mad_Bombardier]

i would say a drow would be a good wiz/sorc because u can incresse their intell up to 20 at lv 1 so my lv 1 drow wiz had 200 sp right off the bat so i would go with a drow wiz or sorctheedtwo, Necromancy is bad for the soul. Just because you can cast "Raise Thread" doesn't mean you should. ;)

[ClovistheRiparian]

This message is withdrawn

[Frosttod_pl]

i would say a drow would be a good wiz/sorc because u can incresse their intell up to 20 at lv 1 so my lv 1 drow wiz had 200 sp right off the bat so i would go with a drow wiz or sorc

what about drow rogue?
I bought veteran status character and 32pts build so i sterted with lvl4

most important for me:
- sneak attack
- spot/search
- disable device
se my new build below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxk-m4oWe00

it's good for custom - "The Dark Blade"?

[Slink]

Holy Thread Necro Batman!