summoners unite - please read if you are using summons, hirelings or pets

[Ultinoob]

I can't imagine i am the only one using hirelings and summonings on mid to high reaper.

You can see my build in the druids forums.

If you are using hirelings and/or summons i'd like to hear how you think it is going and what you build is.

Do you think your build with be better without the summons?

Maybe we can put our brains together and make an ultimate summoner build...

Has anyone tried an enlightened spirit summoner?

What about other druid summoners? anybody out there?

[Maldrick]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeKyANzjOzo

[droid327]

You can see all the bonuses available for summons/hires. They work under the same combat mechanics we do. Ask yourself if you'd want to play a build with just those bonuses in mid-high Reaper and expect to do well. Especially if you're dumb and dont know how to play well, because the hireling AI is notoriously, uh...suicidey

[Ultinoob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeKyANzjOzo

Ehm. That was actually me who made that video.

[Ultinoob]

You can see all the bonuses available for summons/hires. They work under the same combat mechanics we do. Ask yourself if you'd want to play a build with just those bonuses in mid-high Reaper and expect to do well. Especially if you're dumb and dont know how to play well, because the hireling AI is notoriously, uh...suicidey

I don't think that is a fair comparison given that hirelings are never alone. In the video you see the summonings tank sometimes.

Granted they die in vengeance circles but they are actually not that bad.

[mikarddo]

You can see all the bonuses available for summons/hires. They work under the same combat mechanics we do. Ask yourself if you'd want to play a build with just those bonuses in mid-high Reaper and expect to do well. Especially if you're dumb and dont know how to play well, because the hireling AI is notoriously, uh...suicidey

I have played with the OP and his summoned army. I didnt believe they would be any good but I have been pleasantly surprised. With the right build 3-4 hirelings + oozes + summons including sometimes the one from Skelly works very well. Obviously not as well as a real group but much better than I had expected. Thats in R8 in various cap quests - not just cherry picking specific quests.

[C-Dog]

There is a game mechanic that causes mobs to focus on a summons if that summons attacks them first, often even long after the summons dies. This allows the party to pound on the preoccupied target even if their DPS should pull aggro.

[Ultinoob]

I have played with the OP and his summoned army. I didnt believe they would be any good but I have been pleasantly surprised. With the right build 3-4 hirelings + oozes + summons including sometimes the one from Skelly works very well. Obviously not as well as a real group but much better than I had expected. Thats in R8 in various cap quests - not just cherry picking specific quests.

Thank you Mikarddo. It is always a pleasure playing with you :)

[LightBear]

I gave up on such a build some time ago.
Could not pull it off in the way OP does it now.

I always wanted to build a oozes spawning warlock, just because they are that good at pulling agro and thematically it would fit the tentacles thingy.
But think I have to settle for some sort of inquisitive build.

[Jomee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeKyANzjOzo

Reaper 10 and still junk loot!

[LightBear]

Reaper 10 and still junk loot!


Yeah, for the OP, how did you manage to give all your hires, pets and summons Shield and or Night Shield?

[Onyxia2019]

Running with a pack of summons, hirelings and pets can be fun but you have to take on the roll of general, dictating you orders, otherwise they do kamikaze runs.
The wait from trap disarm is a waste of coding as it does nothing. It there is something to attack past the trap they will charge in, usually die in the process.

I personally do not set them on attack unless it is a relatively trap free area. Then I let them go crazy.

Usually I set healers and general casters so they do not attack, using the menu from clicking on their portrait. This way I can still select their attack icon in their bar so healers will heal and mages with cast at range and not run into the pack and get torn to shreds.

As for melee based I let them do their own thing most of the time but when it comes to certain strategical fights I will order them to attack specific targets and even have one hireling guard another for backup. This way I only need to order one to attack a target and the one guarding will follow and start attack. This just saves me some steps on hireling management. These are all ways to work around their squirrely AI coding.

It is hands down better to have real people running with you. As a general rule they are better at playing, yes we have all had that one party member who decided to give DDO a try since Hello Kitty World got boring.

As for builds, I really do not build around having summons, hirelings or pet. If it is a class that has a pet or summon I will of course use them as another tool in the toolbox but the build is not focused on them..

[Ultinoob]

Yeah, for the OP, how did you manage to give all your hires, pets and summons Shield and or Night Shield?

I did not know they had it. I took nothing out of the ordinary and did not cast it on them. so if they have it it may be a hidden effect somewhere.

[Ultinoob]

Running with a pack of summons, hirelings and pets can be fun but you have to take on the roll of general, dictating you orders, otherwise they do kamikaze runs.
The wait from trap disarm is a waste of coding as it does nothing. It there is something to attack past the trap they will charge in, usually die in the process.

I personally do not set them on attack unless it is a relatively trap free area. Then I let them go crazy.

Usually I set healers and general casters so they do not attack, using the menu from clicking on their portrait. This way I can still select their attack icon in their bar so healers will heal and mages with cast at range and not run into the pack and get torn to shreds.

As for melee based I let them do their own thing most of the time but when it comes to certain strategical fights I will order them to attack specific targets and even have one hireling guard another for backup. This way I only need to order one to attack a target and the one guarding will follow and start attack. This just saves me some steps on hireling management. These are all ways to work around their squirrely AI coding.

It is hands down better to have real people running with you. As a general rule they are better at playing, yes we have all had that one party member who decided to give DDO a try since Hello Kitty World got boring.

As for builds, I really do not build around having summons, hirelings or pet. If it is a class that has a pet or summon I will of course use them as another tool in the toolbox but the build is not focused on them..

I was wondering what difficulty you play on?

After level 23 you hirelings get evasion if using primal avatar and traps are usually no longer a problem.

Yes i do set healers to that too.

The guard idea is good. I might use that. Did you know there is a button that makes all hirelings and pets interact with something? If you have a mob selected they will all attack that mob.

[AlcoArgo]

There is a game mechanic that causes mobs to focus on a summons if that summons attacks them first, often even long after the summons dies. This allows the party to pound on the preoccupied target even if their DPS should pull aggro.

Yes. The diplo skill.

[gravisrs]

Summons are cr*p. I've tried few builds on my uber completionist including LGS items (summon buff, ooze spamming, unique summon clickies), filigrees, other unique hirelig/summon buffing gear.
I really wanted to give them a chance on R6-R8'ish quests trying different techniques. But the conclusion is always the same:

You will always make a better impact, better contribution when you focus on your character instead of summons.

Focusing on hirelings/summons just forces you to be either healbot for them, or making weirdo builds to minmax summon stats. Either way their impact on mid+ reaper are near zero. Also because of AI, lags, AI stuck often. Just make a decent build and solo R6+ in no time...

[Onyxia2019]

Summons are cr*p. I've tried few builds on my uber completionist including LGS items (summon buff, ooze spamming, unique summon clickies), filigrees, other unique hirelig/summon buffing gear.
I really wanted to give them a chance on R6-R8'ish quests trying different techniques. But the conclusion is always the same:


If you are trying to run challenging content with summons/hireling that you would normally do with actual players then that is a recipe for failure.
Assuming R6-R8 is what you would run with other players then I would back it down to R4 when running with summons and hirelings. This is just a rough benchmark. Depending on build you may be able to push a little more or you may need to back it down further. Summons/hirelings do not have the gear, specs or abilities that a real player has. This is the reason hirelings count as half a play.

If you can find people to run high R content then great but if not, running with summons/hirelings at a lower R level is better than nothing.