Where People got the idea that Daily Gold Rolls were added to give VIP more value...

[Aelonwy]

Where People got the idea that Daily Gold Rolls were added to give VIP more value... TEMPORARILY while they came up with new ideas.

I keep seeing people calling others "Entitled" for being upset that Daily Gold Rolls were removed without adding some other value to VIP and I want to clear the air on where these people originally got that impression...

Please watch

https://youtu.be/imPsjQ5AGvs

from 47:37 to 53:44 paying special attention around the 51 mark.

It was kind of difficult looking this up, I knew some dev had commented about it giving the impression and players discussed it a lot but without a specific dev quote in the tracker... well I went back 45 pages or so in dev tracker searching. Then I searched for where daily gold rolls started, then release notes about those times, then vids.

[SoulDustar]

Nice detective work Aelonwy

At 51:49 to 51:51 Tolero clearly states she is unsure if the new VIP benefits will be done within a year.

A players expectation to be informed about something that may not be ready within a time frame that is not set in stone is not on anyone but them.



Acting like they are being ripped off and forgotten about because there is no grand announcement for VIP benefits the moment something comes to an end as stated and should have been expected is just childish at best.

Do you think anyone is going to extend a sale or coupon because you were to busy to go when the sale or coupon were available.

Look at all the players who showed up two days late to use the free quest code.



https://www.ddo.com/update-notes/ddo-update-53-release-notes

VIP's not reading or understanding what is clearly stated in the U53 release notes is on them.

ALSO: VIPs now get daily Gold Rolls on Daily Dice for the remainder of 2022 (through 11:59pm Eastern (-5 GMT) on December 31st, 2022)!

[Arkat]

Nice detective work Aelonwy

At 51:49 to 51:51 Tolero clearly states she is unsure if the new VIP benefits will be done within a year.

A players expectation to be informed about something that may not be ready within a time frame that is not set in stone is not on anyone but them.

...

https://www.ddo.com/update-notes/ddo-update-53-release-notes

VIP's not reading or understanding what is clearly stated in the U53 release notes is on them.

ALSO: VIPs now get daily Gold Rolls on Daily Dice for the remainder of 2022 (through 11:59pm Eastern (-5 GMT) on December 31st, 2022)!

You almost act as if the players saw Strimtom's video and that we should understand why the free daily Gold rolls are now gone and that we should also understand why no improvement to the VIP program hasn't been announced.

Well, perhaps 95%-99% of us haven't seen the video, so it's as if Tolero never said what she said in it at all.

The U53 release notes were released almost 11 months ago. Do you really expect us to remember a one sentence paragraph from 11 months ago???

If you do, you're delusional. :rolleyes:

The chaos and outrage is all on SSG. They were in the best position to remind us of the fate of the free daily gold rolls, but said nothing about it until a few days before they were taken away.

I should also point out that 10-11 months is MORE than enough time to at least come up with a preliminary proposal to the playerbase about improvements to the VIP program despite what was said in a Strimtom video from over 10 months ago.

[Loromir]

It's interesting that Cordovan just in this evening's live stream commented that VIP still has "high value". I don't feel like Tolero echo'd that in this interview a year ago. Even if she didn't come right out and say it....she did hint that she believed VIP needed some added value.

I'm willing to with hold judgement for a few weeks in hopes there is some announcement looming. If not...all bets are off.

[Assassination]

It's interesting that Cordovan just in this evening's live stream commented that VIP still has "high value". I don't feel like Tolero echo'd that in this interview a year ago. Even if she didn't come right out and say it....she did hint that she believed VIP needed some added value.

I'm willing to with hold judgement for a few weeks in hopes there is some announcement looming. If not...all bets are off.

Yeah, it's funny to get "high" and then realize how poor the vip membership is. SSG really needs to wake up.

As our servers are less and less populated, you would think doing something right now would be a good idea?

I'm baffled at their hands off approach to all of this. Would not take much from them to make vip's happy.

[Oxarhamar]

You almost act as if the players saw Strimtom's video and that we should understand why the free daily Gold rolls are now gone and that we should also understand why no improvement to the VIP program hasn't been announced.

Well, perhaps 95%-99% of us haven't seen the video, so it's as if Tolero never said what she said in it at all.

The U53 release notes were released almost 11 months ago. Do you really expect us to remember a one sentence paragraph from 11 months ago???

If you do, you're delusional. :rolleyes:

The chaos and outrage is all on SSG. They were in the best position to remind us of the fate of the free daily gold rolls, but said nothing about it until a few days before they were taken away.

I should also point out that 10-11 months is MORE than enough time to at least come up with a preliminary proposal to the playerbase about improvements to the VIP program despite what was said in a Strimtom video from over 10 months ago.


This is why everytime there is a video of Devs there should be an offical transcript on the forum

[Vint]

You almost act as if the players saw Strimtom's video and that we should understand why the free daily Gold rolls are now gone and that we should also understand why no improvement to the VIP program hasn't been announced.

Well, perhaps 95%-99% of us haven't seen the video, so it's as if Tolero never said what she said in it at all.

The U53 release notes were released almost 11 months ago. Do you really expect us to remember a one sentence paragraph from 11 months ago???

If you do, you're delusional. :rolleyes:

The chaos and outrage is all on SSG. They were in the best position to remind us of the fate of the free daily gold rolls, but said nothing about it until a few days before they were taken away.

I should also point out that 10-11 months is MORE than enough time to at least come up with a preliminary proposal to the playerbase about improvements to the VIP program despite what was said in a Strimtom video from over 10 months ago.

+1

I've been a Premium player for over a decade now and have more than paid for a sub with all the points I buy. After all these years I decided to sub for 3 months BECUASE OF THE GOLD ROLLS. No biggie, I wont renew.

No real value = No VIP. No pitchforks, not crying, don't care enough.

[Aelonwy]

They were in the best position to remind us of the fate of the free daily gold rolls, but said nothing about it until a few days before they were taken away.

I should also point out that 10-11 months is MORE than enough time to at least come up with a preliminary proposal to the playerbase about improvements to the VIP program despite what was said in a Strimtom video from over 10 months ago.

Indeed. I think the first responder missed my point. Was the cutoff time for daily gold rolls in a set of release notes? Yes. Were those release notes particularly recent? No. 42 pages back in dev tracker AND if you click on them from the forums I personally get an error. I had to read them from the wiki. Could SSG have put a reminder that daily gold rolls were soon to be reduced back to weekly? Absolutely. They could have put a reminder on the launcher at the beginning of December. They could have put a reminder on Facebook, on Twitter, on the OFFICIAL forums in dev tracker for goodness sake. Did everyone see this video? No, of course not, but people have been chatting away on the forums about the topic of improving the value of VIP at least since then whether or not they knew the source of the topic. Could they have hyped us with plans for renewed or improved value to VIP as this video clearly made it seem was the intention? Yes, if they actually had plans... if they actually planned to follow through with that intention. The SILENCE seems like there is no plan, makes it seem like the intention was forgotten and now the very idea that VIP could use more value is absurd.

What is causing the outrage? the disgruntlement? I would say its clearly poor and lacking communication.

[Coffey]

Thanks for taking the tine to post this for clarity sake.

Thanks for the time index too. Definitely not a straight shooter.

[Dandonk]

Thank you so much for digging this up. Despite Cordovan's recent assertions that VIP "is good value", this was not the stance a year ago.

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

Great post. Thank you.

Here are my ideas for VIP 2023+

Increased account storage to unlimited Shared bank for VIPs

Exclusive in-game items, gear, special mounts, pets

bonus DDO points earned along with any XP earned (in addition to the DDO points we earn from renown)

And what they did already:

Bonus daily or weekly login rewards, permanent gold dice daily

[Xgya]

Aelonwy, thank you for all the hard work.



Here are my ideas for VIP 2023+

Increased account storage to unlimited Shared bank for VIPs

I don't think it's feasible, given just how reluctant on giving more they generally are. It WOULD make it worth it for sure, and they've recently made the bank system work even when filled above capacity (that's what the TR caches are), so it might be easier to do now than it was then.


Exclusive in-game items, gear, special mounts, pets

So long as it's not an increase to maximum player power, AOK.


bonus DDO points earned along with any XP earned (in addition to the DDO points we earn from renown)

See, that one's original. I like it a lot. Just increase the amount of points gained from favor by a percentage for VIPs. It'd make sense.


My ideas are always about extra QoL.
Let VIPs just immediately join in an existing quest without having to walk. (so if there's already an instance of the quest, a VIP could access the quest window from the Adventure Log and enter)
It's just sad to have to tell the group you're "on your way" to the quest, and have them tell you the quest is done before you reach them because somebody killed the boss before you entered.
VIPs get a certain number of chest rerolls for free (per day? per hour? per quest?)
Just let VIPs treat BtC items as if they were BtA.

[Plantasiax]

*) Grammar and syntax errors are included.


You almost act as if the players saw Strimtom's video and that we should understand why the free daily Gold rolls are now gone and that we should also understand why no improvement to the VIP program hasn't been announced.
...
The U53 release notes were released almost 11 months ago. Do you really expect us to remember a one sentence paragraph from 11 months ago???

If you do, you're delusional. :rolleyes:


It's like someone didn't remember the fine-prints and claims something is invalid, because the person has no active memories of it.
(And we (in Dutchland) have a prime-minister in our goverment who used this tactic, just to avoid his responsebilities ... and it did not really work, because of lots of video's)
It was a Ddo-birthday present, just as all those free-cakes in previous years.

Also, as soon as the first msg appeared last december about "when does the gold-roll ends", it was very easy to look up when the statement was made.

- Start DdoWiki.
- Look at the Update-notices (it's just the first part on the screen).
- Look back and search some updates, made in the beginning of 2022.
- And I too came to the notes of update 53. Link: https://ddowiki.com/page/Update_53_Release_Notes
- One can use the "Search" of "Find" option in the browser to look for "roll".
- PLUS we have a date ... somewhere arround Thursday, February 24th, 2022.

- Verify by looking at the Ddo-site itself.
- Click on "News" and "Update Notices".
- Search for Update 53 notes.
- Click on it. Link: https://www.ddo.com/update-notes/ddo-update-53-release-notes
- One can use the "Search" of "Find" option in the browser to look for "roll".
- Et voila also in this source document it is stated clearly.

The detective work to search where the beginning-notice was, I didn't found it hard.


So, even I don't get it why really no-one (before this thread) has come to "How had we ever been able to know this" ...


One may call it robberty and de-subscribe and leave, because of the ending of the free daily gold roll.
But it was all planned just at the start.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, I don't get it.

Ask somethink about a game-technic and several relies appears with how it exactly works and what formules to use, including all kinds of exceptions.
Ask something how to build a several toon to play a severall roll in the end-game and several replies ... ... ...

What I mean is: a lot of messages appears how some-ones knows the most tiniest little detail.

But this little fact can't be remembered ???

[Dandonk]

But this little fact can't be remembered ???

I tihnk the point was that Tolero, in the video, foreshadowed improvements to the VIP program, while offering gold rolls for the rest of the year while working on that. They removed gold rolls when they said they would? Fine. But no other improvements have materialized, and now Cordovan's official line is that "VIP is fine", conflicting with Tolero's statement in the OP-linked video. Not so fine.

[Jaxtan]

The biggest point here is you don't treat your customers like this if you care about them. If you care about them, you communicate and you deliver. When this doesn't happen, it can indicate a lack of direction and/or commitment. For a small niche game and its small crazy loyal customer base, it can quickly lead to risking everything.

[Epicsoul]

It's interesting that Cordovan just in this evening's live stream commented that VIP still has "high value".

Yep, I heard. They're gaslighting us. SSG is a pitiful excuse for a business.

[RTN]

It's interesting that Cordovan just in this evening's live stream commented that VIP still has "high value". I don't feel like Tolero echo'd that in this interview a year ago. Even if she didn't come right out and say it....she did hint that she believed VIP needed some added value.

I'm willing to with hold judgement for a few weeks in hopes there is some announcement looming. If not...all bets are off.

Unfortunately, Cordo's statement should probably be read as there's nothing coming anytime soon. Otherwise, he'd have said there's stuff coming, but he can't talk about it.

The reactions in the various threads are also pretty telling. There's people who only sub'd for the gold rolls. There's people dropping subs over this fiasco. There's people saying stop whining. There's people saying they're sub'd because they want to help the game. There's very very few people saying they think current benefits are worth the sub.

[Sylvado]

Yep, I heard. They're gaslighting us. SSG is a pitiful excuse for a business.

yet here you are.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Nice detective work Aelonwy

At 51:49 to 51:51 Tolero clearly states she is unsure if the new VIP benefits will be done within a year.
THIS is what the average ViP is upset about. Like I said in another thread, "We'll get an announcement in Feb, and MAYBE see the new perks by March"

[Dmitrythewizzy]

Take a look at the Dev comments forum. It's literally been months sine anyone communicated anything of substance.

[Wizard1406]

Great post. Thank you.

Here are my ideas for VIP 2023+

Increased account storage to unlimited Shared bank for VIPs

Exclusive in-game items, gear, special mounts, pets

bonus DDO points earned along with any XP earned (in addition to the DDO points we earn from renown)

And what they did already:

Bonus daily or weekly login rewards, permanent gold dice daily


DDO points as a percentage of any xp earned would be so great. Would go a long way to make endgame more viable.

Unlimited storage is not possible but at least a LOT more storage. Is DDO the only MMO with WAY too little space even if you subscribe? (Otherwise I can only think of FFXI but that's because of PS2 (!) limitations)

I don't really like the gold rolls, too much gambling. I'd like to see daily log-in reward token, where you can choose your own reward. (silver token for all, gold token for VIP)

[Aelonwy]

Yep, I heard. They're gaslighting us. SSG is a pitiful excuse for a business.

That's like assuming he's in-on some nefarious plot... from my experience with Cordovan its far more likely he simply is unaware of the basis of the current situation or unapprised of any future plans for VIP, assuming of course they've made any plans. Now if Tolero came on the show or the forums and commented she suddenly valued VIP highly with zero changes... then that would be gaslighting.

I still hope they may have plans on improvements to VIP but have dropped and perhaps even lost the ball in a communications snafu of ridiculous proportions reminiscent of a Jerry Lewis skit.

[scut207]

I dont pay very close attn at all to the Dev interactions with players, yet I knew this was coming. I did at the time read that original letter and thought "what a breath of fresh air" from tolero. I thought 'This person gets it.'

f I were to guess, I think if anything she probably has a metric s-ton of good ideas to improve VIP, but doesnt have the bargaining power internally with SSG to get them done.

I'm not running to the shed for my pitchfork yet, but SSG should address the folks that keep the lights on for them.

[Onyxia2019]

Anytime you use the word value as a measure of somethings worth, it is in the eyes of the person assessing the value.

Is VIP a high value well that depends on how much you are invested in the game.

A new player, wish there were more but I digress, would see a lot of value considering they are starting with nothing, no content packs, storage, access to mounts etc.
Pay $10 and you have access to lots of quests that are otherwise behind a pay wall to farm rep for storage, get a mount and so on.

Now for a longtime customer this would not have nearly the same value. Chances are you bought expansions or turned in the DDOQUEST2021 code and got all the early content. You have bought bag and bank storage. So basically most of what VIP offers a veteran player owns so if they cancel their sub, what are they really giving up? A weekly gold roll, 500 points a month, small XP boost...

So the question is not whether VIP has a high value, is really comes down to what are you as a player getting out of it and the value you place on what you are getting.

Personally, does it currently have the value it did prior to removal of the daily gold roll? Of course not.
Something was taking away without a replacement of equal value. That is a decrease in value.
Am I disappointed? Sure, who like loosing value in something?
Is it worth all the fuss? Not to me.

$10 a month (cheaper if you buy a long timeframe) is not that much. If it is for you then perhaps this loss in value for a game subscription should not be your biggest concern in life.

Then there is that matter of principle. Having good principles is great, wish more people in the would had and followed them. If the removal of the daily gold roll to you goes against your principles then dropping your sub maybe something you might want to consider if it mean that much to you. However arguing about or attempting to force your principles on others, whether you are for or against VIP at the moment is not a good thing.

Lastly there is opinion. Everybody has one and everyone of them is correct... to the person. Arguing or attempting to justify your option to someone else is not going to work.
You may have the opinion that you spouse it the greatest person in the world, my opinion is that mine is. No amount of arguing or discussing is going to sway our respective opinion so why even try. Best to just acknowledge that our opinions are valid to each other and go grab a beer and run a few quests together.

[SoulDustar]

Selective Memory

The definition of selective memory in the dictionary is an ability to remember some facts while apparently forgetting others, especially when they are inconvenient. Other definition of selective memory is the ability to retrieve certain facts and events but not others.

Remembering that gold rolls were ending was inconvenient

New VIP benefits were convenient

Selective Memory





You almost act as if the players saw Strimtom's video and that we should understand why the free daily Gold rolls are now gone and that we should also understand why no improvement to the VIP program hasn't been announced.

Well, perhaps 95%-99% of us haven't seen the video, so it's as if Tolero never said what she said in it at all.

The U53 release notes were released almost 11 months ago. Do you really expect us to remember a one sentence paragraph from 11 months ago???

If you do, you're delusional. :rolleyes:

The chaos and outrage is all on SSG. They were in the best position to remind us of the fate of the free daily gold rolls, but said nothing about it until a few days before they were taken away.

I should also point out that 10-11 months is MORE than enough time to at least come up with a preliminary proposal to the playerbase about improvements to the VIP program despite what was said in a Strimtom video from over 10 months ago.



Yet everyone seems to remember that SSG said they would implement changes to the VIP just not that Gold Rolls had a hard date set to expire and new VIP benefit might not be ready in about a year.

SSG announced the Freequest coupon was coming to end both times it was available multiple times yet returning players wanted it extended and extended and extended and it did get extended I believe I could be wrong I'm not doing the work to find out and yet here we are again with a hard set date and the pitchforks and flaming torches are out in force on the forums yet again.


Why does SSG need to send the players a proposal that may or may not be ready about the new VIP benefits. Everyone clicked agree to the TOS right. There went all your rights.

I have seen hundreds of posts how SSG doesn't listen to the player base about changes with upcoming Updates and how they have to suffer thought patches and lag and all sorts of things and the never ending impending DOOM of DDO. How many patches has it been since the last post about that. The Epic Destinies Update The Imbue Update The Bank Update The Level Cap Update the list goes on and on and yet here you are..... need I say more.




Indeed. I think the first responder missed my point. Was the cutoff time for daily gold rolls in a set of release notes? Yes. Were those release notes particularly recent? No. 42 pages back in dev tracker AND if you click on them from the forums I personally get an error. I had to read them from the wiki. Could SSG have put a reminder that daily gold rolls were soon to be reduced back to weekly? Absolutely. They could have put a reminder on the launcher at the beginning of December. They could have put a reminder on Facebook, on Twitter, on the OFFICIAL forums in dev tracker for goodness sake. Did everyone see this video? No, of course not, but people have been chatting away on the forums about the topic of improving the value of VIP at least since then whether or not they knew the source of the topic. Could they have hyped us with plans for renewed or improved value to VIP as this video clearly made it seem was the intention? Yes, if they actually had plans... if they actually planned to follow through with that intention. The SILENCE seems like there is no plan, makes it seem like the intention was forgotten and now the very idea that VIP could use more value is absurd.

What is causing the outrage? the disgruntlement? I would say its clearly poor and lacking communication.



I didn't miss anything I never saw the video before you posted and I knew good and well the gold were coming to an end.

The simple fact is SSG did communicate the Daily gold rolls would come to and end with a hard set date and players chose to over look or ignore. SSG also thanks to you did state that the new benefits might not be ready when the Gold Rolls came to an END.

Here are not one not two but three reminders about daily rolls coming to and end that took me less than five minutes to find.

I do not see it on the launcher but lets face it how often do those get overlooked should I go link all those that people seemed to miss as well.

These announcements were not at all necessary in my opinion but were certainly done. I guess they just got missed by everyone playing DDO

https://forums.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/536358-Downtime-Notice-Wednesday-January-4th-9-00-AM-12-00-PM-Eastern-(-5-GMT)

https://twitter.com/DDOUnlimited/status/1610380044462968833

https://www.facebook.com/DDOUnlimited Posted Jan 3 2:58pm

Dungeons & Dragons Online
·
The DDO game worlds will be unavailable on Wednesday, January 4th from 9:00 AM - 12:00 PM Eastern (-5 GMT) for weekly maintenance. NOTE: The 2022 VIP Daily Gold Roll will no longer be available after this downtime. Thank you! #DDO

[WaxLyrical]

Nice detective work Aelonwy

At 51:49 to 51:51 Tolero clearly states she is unsure if the new VIP benefits will be done within a year.

A players expectation to be informed about something that may not be ready within a time frame that is not set in stone is not on anyone but them.



Acting like they are being ripped off and forgotten about because there is no grand announcement for VIP benefits the moment something comes to an end as stated and should have been expected is just childish at best.

Do you think anyone is going to extend a sale or coupon because you were to busy to go when the sale or coupon were available.

Look at all the players who showed up two days late to use the free quest code.



https://www.ddo.com/update-notes/ddo-update-53-release-notes

VIP's not reading or understanding what is clearly stated in the U53 release notes is on them.

ALSO: VIPs now get daily Gold Rolls on Daily Dice for the remainder of 2022 (through 11:59pm Eastern (-5 GMT) on December 31st, 2022)!


Your argument smacks of Vogon constructor fleet tactics, akin to something you might find in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, but a whole lot less funny.

[jskinner937]

I do not see why how people refer to being VIP, but not being a VIP themselves should have any opinion in this matter to be honest. If you aren't a VIP, why do you even care or even further post about how entitled a VIP is? It is frankly mind boggling how people anymore expect people to act a certain way, especially when you have no personal interest or perspective.

In the end, no matter what was said, it was only offered to VIPs (paying subscribers). There was also mention about restructuring benefits and the gold rolls were in fact a placeholder and not intended to be permanent. The fact also remains that additional VIP subs were sold due at least in partiality of this benefit. And combine that with the fact that devs has said numerous times that VIP would be looked at and has continued to be deprioritized....you cannot help feeling ripped off by the expiration of this change and no replacement or restructured benefit. The fact remains that VIP is not worth the investment before this change and some of us remained loyal and now have been rewarded with an even inferior subscription. And yes if you bought a yearly subscription you can't easily get a refund when a benefit was removed and not replaced. It is simply sad and goes to show how much SSG/DDO cares about regular paying subscribers.

No matter what you think, if you aren't a VIP, your opinion is not welcome, as you have no skin in the game. For those of us who have/did subscribe, well we feel stepped on. And I for one will not be planning to renew at this point unless some substantial benefit is soon to come. Even those the gold rolls were not a great benefit outside of HCL, to get me a back as a subscriber will require something much greater than gold rolls at this point.

[Coffey]

I still hope they may have plans on improvements to VIP but have dropped and perhaps even lost the ball in a communications snafu of ridiculous proportions reminiscent of a Jerry Lewis skit.

Communication is key!

[Epicsoul]

That's like assuming he's in-on some nefarious plot... from my experience with Cordovan its far more likely he simply is unaware of the basis of the current situation or unapprised of any future plans for VIP, assuming of course they've made any plans. Now if Tolero came on the show or the forums and commented she suddenly valued VIP highly with zero changes... then that would be gaslighting.

I still hope they may have plans on improvements to VIP but have dropped and perhaps even lost the ball in a communications snafu of ridiculous proportions reminiscent of a Jerry Lewis skit.

Incorrect. Gaslighting does not assume some nefarious plot. It's simple: Cordo's response to the feedback made it worse by making players believe what they understood was incorrect, when SSG was clear on the VIP program (per your video, which a lot of us saw).

SSG communicates their VIP program needs work. Implements short-term benefit until a long-term is introduced. I would be shocked if Cordo was unaware of this, but let's assume that he was. I would hope the team meeting revealed the impetus for the disgruntled players. But no, several days after robust community feedback and SSG's internal conversations results in their public-facing employee (Cordo) communicating: the VIP program is high-value, and we're always looking for promotional ways to make VIP better? Nah...nah. If this is due to ignorance, why the heck is their community manager that out of the loop?

[Epicsoul]

yet here you are.

Yes, a customer complaining about a business's poor performance is always a good sign.

Waterboys are allowed breaks on the weekend, ya know?

[Aelonwy]

If this is due to ignorance, why the heck is their community manager that out of the loop?

That I do NOT know, but it hasn't been the first time that he appears behind or even misinformed on what is going on.

[Oxarhamar]

Selective Memory

The definition of selective memory in the dictionary is an ability to remember some facts while apparently forgetting others, especially when they are inconvenient. Other definition of selective memory is the ability to retrieve certain facts and events but not others.

Remembering that gold rolls were ending was inconvenient

New VIP benefits were convenient

Selective Memory








Yet everyone seems to remember that SSG said they would implement changes to the VIP just not that Gold Rolls had a hard date set to expire and new VIP benefit might not be ready in about a year.

SSG announced the Freequest coupon was coming to end both times it was available multiple times yet returning players wanted it extended and extended and extended and it did get extended I believe I could be wrong I'm not doing the work to find out and yet here we are again with a hard set date and the pitchforks and flaming torches are out in force on the forums yet again.


Why does SSG need to send the players a proposal that may or may not be ready about the new VIP benefits. Everyone clicked agree to the TOS right. There went all your rights.

I have seen hundreds of posts how SSG doesn't listen to the player base about changes with upcoming Updates and how they have to suffer thought patches and lag and all sorts of things and the never ending impending DOOM of DDO. How many patches has it been since the last post about that. The Epic Destinies Update The Imbue Update The Bank Update The Level Cap Update the list goes on and on and yet here you are..... need I say more.







I didn't miss anything I never saw the video before you posted and I knew good and well the gold were coming to an end.

The simple fact is SSG did communicate the Daily gold rolls would come to and end with a hard set date and players chose to over look or ignore. SSG also thanks to you did state that the new benefits might not be ready when the Gold Rolls came to an END.

Here are not one not two but three reminders about daily rolls coming to and end that took me less than five minutes to find.

I do not see it on the launcher but lets face it how often do those get overlooked should I go link all those that people seemed to miss as well.

These announcements were not at all necessary in my opinion but were certainly done. I guess they just got missed by everyone playing DDO

https://forums.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/536358-Downtime-Notice-Wednesday-January-4th-9-00-AM-12-00-PM-Eastern-(-5-GMT)

https://twitter.com/DDOUnlimited/status/1610380044462968833

https://www.facebook.com/DDOUnlimited Posted Jan 3 2:58pm

Dungeons & Dragons Online
·
The DDO game worlds will be unavailable on Wednesday, January 4th from 9:00 AM - 12:00 PM Eastern (-5 GMT) for weekly maintenance. NOTE: The 2022 VIP Daily Gold Roll will no longer be available after this downtime. Thank you! #DDO

Remembered both the Rolls ending & that it was a temporary fix so where’s the replacement

[SoulDustar]

Remembered both the Rolls ending & that it was a temporary fix so where’s the replacement

Second Post in the thread

At 51:49 to 51:51 Tolero clearly states she is unsure if the new VIP benefits will be done within a year.

[rabidfox]

Second Post in the thread

At 51:49 to 51:51 Tolero clearly states she is unsure if the new VIP benefits will be done within a year.

And people are entirely in their right to annoyed by the lack of those replacements even with them saying they might not be ready in a year. A simple choice could've been to keep the gold rolls turned on until such time as a replacement was decided upon...

[Dandonk]

And people are entirely in their right to annoyed by the lack of those replacements even with them saying they might not be ready in a year. A simple choice could've been to keep the gold rolls turned on until such time as a replacement was decided upon...

And annoyed with Cordovan's seeming insistence on that nothing is going to be done, in spite of Tolero's comment.

[mbartol]

Well, it seems that SSG is TECHNICALLY correct:
- Technically, they did have an end date for the daily gold rolls posted in their original announcement.
- Technically, they never gave themselves a deadline for identifying any new VIP benefits.
- Technically, they did what they said they would do.

How dare anyone be upset about the perceived value of VIP now? Never mind the Producer stating that they realize they need to make it better. Since SSG was TECHNICALLY correct, all players should sign up for (or renew) their VIP subscription. Nobody has any right to be upset (apparently).

[Oxarhamar]

Second Post in the thread

At 51:49 to 51:51 Tolero clearly states she is unsure if the new VIP benefits will be done within a year.

indeed thats all well & good still waiting for an update YW

[Seph1roth5]

People have been wanting more vip bonuses for years because, more free = good. My understanding was that ssg was responding to the small amount of people in the last few years that were really upset about the free codes "devaluing" their vip. Because it wasn't until after the code(s) had come out that I ever heard any dev mentioning that they wanted to improve vip bonuses.

I think it's silly that people are mad that they weren't given more of a heads up. They had said and I knew the daily gold rolls were a 2022 thing. And honestly, if they had put out a bunch of notices a week in advance, maybe 3 people would've been mollified?

But, I also think it's ridiculous that they had many months to think of SOMEthing else to do after gold rolls ended and instead went with nothing. If nothing else just let the daily gold rolls ride another year and then maybe by then they'll have thought of something.

I don't think daily gold rolls are gamebreaking anyway. It's like giving people a free pull at a slot machine every day. Probably not going to win anything most of the time (100 xp), but might get a free cocktail (bigbys) or a t-shirt (xp pot). And maaaaaybe once or twice a year, might get a steak dinner (+8 or other fancy tome).

[Captain_Wizbang]

Probably not going to win anything most of the time (100 xp), but might get a free cocktail (bigbys) or a t-shirt (xp pot). And maaaaaybe once or twice a year, might get a steak dinner (+8 or other fancy tome).

With daily gold rolls, I was server hopping almost everyday, (July to date that is), 4 mounts, 6 +8 stat tomes, a ton of +5 skill tomes.

My plan was to xfer 1 or 2 this year. That might not happen now. (sadly)

Overall* I get more silver 90 + rolls.:rolleyes:

[Memnir]

https://i.imgur.com/KMCIVZv.jpg

[Arkat]

https://i.imgur.com/KMCIVZv.jpg

Tried to cover ya but got the same message. :(

[Xgya]

Tried to cover ya but got the same message. :(

Aelonwy yet again too awesome for her own good, I got that message too :O

[Sylvado]

Anytime you use the word value as a measure of somethings worth, it is in the eyes of the person assessing the value.

Is VIP a high value well that depends on how much you are invested in the game.

A new player, wish there were more but I digress, would see a lot of value considering they are starting with nothing, no content packs, storage, access to mounts etc.
Pay $10 and you have access to lots of quests that are otherwise behind a pay wall to farm rep for storage, get a mount and so on.

Now for a longtime customer this would not have nearly the same value. Chances are you bought expansions or turned in the DDOQUEST2021 code and got all the early content. You have bought bag and bank storage. So basically most of what VIP offers a veteran player owns so if they cancel their sub, what are they really giving up? A weekly gold roll, 500 points a month, small XP boost...

So the question is not whether VIP has a high value, is really comes down to what are you as a player getting out of it and the value you place on what you are getting.

Personally, does it currently have the value it did prior to removal of the daily gold roll? Of course not.
Something was taking away without a replacement of equal value. That is a decrease in value.
Am I disappointed? Sure, who like loosing value in something?
Is it worth all the fuss? Not to me.

$10 a month (cheaper if you buy a long timeframe) is not that much. If it is for you then perhaps this loss in value for a game subscription should not be your biggest concern in life.

Then there is that matter of principle. Having good principles is great, wish more people in the would had and followed them. If the removal of the daily gold roll to you goes against your principles then dropping your sub maybe something you might want to consider if it mean that much to you. However arguing about or attempting to force your principles on others, whether you are for or against VIP at the moment is not a good thing.

Lastly there is opinion. Everybody has one and everyone of them is correct... to the person. Arguing or attempting to justify your option to someone else is not going to work.
You may have the opinion that you spouse it the greatest person in the world, my opinion is that mine is. No amount of arguing or discussing is going to sway our respective opinion so why even try. Best to just acknowledge that our opinions are valid to each other and go grab a beer and run a few quests together.

Most accurate post in this thread.

The biggest hit to VIP value was DDOQUEST2021

To that is will add, Daily gold rolls was a big mistake. The items gained had to be a big hit on store sales. Many if not all VIP accounts took the rolls on every server and the value of the items far exceeds the cost of a transfer. I want more value for my subscription but if I cancel, I will not post to announce it and make claims that SSG is evil or does not know how to run a business. The game is insanely inexpensive, I am willing to bet that most of those crying have spent more for their keyboard than they have for an annual subscription.

[Strider1963]

I do remember that the devs said that the gold rolls were ending as of Dec 31 but they also said they were looking at ways to make VIP more enticing to players. I am a VIP mainly to help support the game (I bought many packs previous to becoming a VIP). Since I am still on the past life hamster wheel, I found the gold rolls were very beneficial to me as I could start a new life as a level 3 or 4. Saved me time. IMHO VIP could use more benefits to entice players to become VIP. Other games have more value for monthly payers. They need to come up with some things that benefit all VIP's. A bunch of new monthly payers would help keep the game alive!

[Eantarus]

indeed thats all well & good still waiting for an update YW

Not having them ready in a year is pathetic but understandable.

Not even being able to tell us what the new benefits ARE transcends the title of epic fail and proceeds on into legendary levels.

[Xezom]

That I do NOT know, but it hasn't been the first time that he appears behind or even misinformed on what is going on.

I'll echo this. All you have to do is watch one of the Wednesday live streams (when they were regular) and you will hear on more that one occasion at least once per stream, "I have no information on that," or "I have no updates or haven't been informed of the plans for that yet."

I'm not saying that Cordovan is always behind the 8 ball but that it is neither uncommon nor unfathomable that he is simply uninformed of the reality of the situation. This has been the case for many many years. This isn't a dig at Cord by any means and is not to be taken as such. He is only able to work with the information that he is given. This, as has been said multiple time both here and in other posts, is simply the results of a lack in efficient communication that seems to be stemming from an internal issue that has leaked it's way to the public since our information comes from the community manager and devs who post, who are currently either lacking information or simply unable to provide any of any value.

I personally remember both the Patch note and the video, but I do a lot of work on the wiki so I'm constantly going through all the data I can to keep things as accurate as possible. I wasn't as butt hurt about the loss of the gold dice as some, but as Aelonwyn pointed out the lack of CURRENT information regarding the loss of daily gold dice impacts the discussion making of new players/returning subscriptions when deciding if a year sub is worth. Granted, I'm not sure how many new players are actually coming in and subscribing or debating it to know what impact that truly has.

Personally, I subscribe for no other reason than to pitch in my contribution to keeping the light bill paid for a game that I love. If there were no other benefits but to be able to keep playing, I would be paying for my sub. With that said, do I feel lie VIP is a good value? No.

As a long time player who as bought the majority of the content by this point, there is very little that I gain from the VIP benefits that I don't already have access to. I'm thankful that we have the ability to do so in this game and that thanks to the give away in 2021 most of the quests were given out free that were once gated by paywall or VIP. However, it comes down to the old problem of: the better a game is for f2p, the harder a sell you have to push subscriptions.

DDO, IMHO is sitting on that very VERY fine line between the two and is wavering back and forth between the two sides. The benefits of VIP over what many of us long time players already have is so minuscule that the "value" in subbing is less in the beneifts of the sbuscription, and more in knowing that you're helping keep the servers running. Not exactly what I call high value, but to me is still valuable enough to do it. Not everyone (and even most I'd argue) feels the way I do, and totally understandable why.

[Eantarus]

and more in knowing that you're helping keep the servers running.

If the game needs people to pay for a useless VIP sub to keep the servers running, then it deserves to get shut down. They could so easily do so many things to improve VIP experience and flatly refuse to, if the company goes out of business that's on them.

I just hope EG7 is reading this while they try to figure out why their profits are shrinking.

[Oxarhamar]

Not having them ready in a year is pathetic but understandable.

Not even being able to tell us what the new benefits ARE transcends the title of epic fail and proceeds on into legendary levels.

Yeah it's been far longer than a years since they first started speaking on VIP adjustments Rolls was a bandaid still waiting for the adjustments

[Oxarhamar]

I'll echo this. All you have to do is watch one of the Wednesday live streams (when they were regular) and you will hear on more that one occasion at least once per stream, "I have no information on that," or "I have no updates or haven't been informed of the plans for that yet."

I'm not saying that Cordovan is always behind the 8 ball but that it is neither uncommon nor unfathomable that he is simply uninformed of the reality of the situation. This has been the case for many many years. This isn't a dig at Cord by any means and is not to be taken as such. He is only able to work with the information that he is given. This, as has been said multiple time both here and in other posts, is simply the results of a lack in efficient communication that seems to be stemming from an internal issue that has leaked it's way to the public since our information comes from the community manager and devs who post, who are currently either lacking information or simply unable to provide any of any value.

I personally remember both the Patch note and the video, but I do a lot of work on the wiki so I'm constantly going through all the data I can to keep things as accurate as possible. I wasn't as butt hurt about the loss of the gold dice as some, but as Aelonwyn pointed out the lack of CURRENT information regarding the loss of daily gold dice impacts the discussion making of new players/returning subscriptions when deciding if a year sub is worth. Granted, I'm not sure how many new players are actually coming in and subscribing or debating it to know what impact that truly has.

Personally, I subscribe for no other reason than to pitch in my contribution to keeping the light bill paid for a game that I love. If there were no other benefits but to be able to keep playing, I would be paying for my sub. With that said, do I feel lie VIP is a good value? No.

As a long time player who as bought the majority of the content by this point, there is very little that I gain from the VIP benefits that I don't already have access to. I'm thankful that we have the ability to do so in this game and that thanks to the give away in 2021 most of the quests were given out free that were once gated by paywall or VIP. However, it comes down to the old problem of: the better a game is for f2p, the harder a sell you have to push subscriptions.

DDO, IMHO is sitting on that very VERY fine line between the two and is wavering back and forth between the two sides. The benefits of VIP over what many of us long time players already have is so minuscule that the "value" in subbing is less in the beneifts of the sbuscription, and more in knowing that you're helping keep the servers running. Not exactly what I call high value, but to me is still valuable enough to do it. Not everyone (and even most I'd argue) feels the way I do, and totally understandable why.

+1

well stated

[Eantarus]

Yeah it's been far longer than a years since they first started speaking on VIP adjustments Rolls was a bandaid still waiting for the adjustments

At this point its the fact that they can't even come out and say "we are going to improve VIP" that has me the most angry. They can't even formally announce on the forums that they are talking about it, they have to let a player do it for them.

[ahpook]

Selective Memory
...
Factually you are not wrong.

But it misses the point. In a situation where a significant percentage of VIP's are feeling the value is not worth it and with an ongoing discussion of whether Gold Rolls will be extended to continue to provide at least some value, SSG chose to do nothing. They tacked on a reminder to a routine server restart announcement the day before the rolls were ending without any attempt at damage control. Sure they said they were going to do that months and months ago and they don't have to communicate these changes with their player base but why would they chose to do it that way? Why would they not manage the situation better?

Right or wrong, they could have handled this far better because being right while customers leave the shop doesn't pay the wages. You may not agree that they handled it poorly but that is only 1 customer. It seems like a large number of customers are on the side of SSG having handled it poorly. And after this year of poor communications and irritated players, I just don't see how that helps them.

[Oxarhamar]

At this point its the fact that they can't even come out and say "we are going to improve VIP" that has me the most angry. They can't even formally announce on the forums that they are talking about it, they have to let a player do it for them.

This has been the MO of putting important information out on other than the forums for years

everytime I say it should be here or a transcript posted here if it’s on a different video format

it’s nothing new though

[Oxarhamar]

Factually you are not wrong.

But it misses the point. In a situation where a significant percentage of VIP's are feeling the value is not worth it and with an ongoing discussion of whether Gold Rolls will be extended to continue to provide at least some value, SSG chose to do nothing. They tacked on a reminder to a routine server restart announcement the day before the rolls were ending without any attempt at damage control. Sure they said they were going to do that months and months ago and they don't have to communicate these changes with their player base but why would they chose to do it that way? Why would they not manage the situation better?

Right or wrong, they could have handled this far better because being right while customers leave the shop doesn't pay the wages. You may not agree that they handled it poorly but that is only 1 customer. It seems like a large number of customers are on the side of SSG having handled it poorly. And after this year of poor communications and irritated players, I just don't see how that helps them.

IMO they should have just extended the gold rolls until they were ready with a solution faily simple

[Eantarus]

IMO they should have just extended the gold rolls until they were ready with a solution faily simple

My guess is they didn't realize how negative the response would be. Now that its here they can't change direction because... well, we don't know, they refuse to talk to us.

[Oxarhamar]

My guess is they didn't realize how negative the response would be. Now that its here they can't change direction because... well, we don't know, they refuse to talk to us.

& yet it was just discussed in the video posted in this thread

[Eantarus]

& yet it was just discussed in the video posted in this thread

That's not a discussion. This is a discussion. And the devs are not participating.

[Aelonwy]

& yet it was just discussed in the video posted in this thread

Just in case you were unaware the video comes from the beginning of Tolero's tenure as Producer, last February 19th, so that dialogue is almost a year old and hasn't had much back and forth with the players. That is there has been much back and forth between players but no Official Discussion between devs and players as it were. At least not on the public forums.

[ShotCaller]

I saved enough to start most of my remaining lives at lev 4! That to me is time saved. I don't have all the time in the world to play this game, and as a VIP, the daily gold rolls provided me time saved.

I do this as well, albeit starting at level 3 instead of level 4, and daily gold rolls allowed me to stockpile XP gems so I could do this on multiple lives.

Daily silver rolls? Not so much.

[Oxarhamar]

That's not a discussion. This is a discussion. And the devs are not participating.

Yes information was discussed

[Loromir]

yet here you are.

Yes....here we are. I so much want to support this game. I've played for 13 years...been VIP for most of that. Until now, I have never considered un-subbing.

[Loromir]

if the company goes out of business that's on them.


Well...it is, but I will sorely be affected. I love this game and don't want to see it go away. I want VIP to have value so people will continue to sub...and keep the cash flowing...so they can keep the game going.

[SilentRunning]

But you see you are indeed acting Entitled.

Here's the definition just in case you missed it, seeing as how a lot of you can't take time to look stuff up, I'll be kind enough to provide a definition of Entitled.


Entitled:
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.


Which is precisely how you are all acting.

Everyone is not going to agree on what makes VIP worthwhile. Different people will have different views so whatever SSG comes up with, somebody is going to get upset feeling that they were not listened to.

So SSG is damned if they do or damned if they don't. None of you are ever happy.

[Oxarhamar]

But you see you are indeed acting Entitled.

Here's the definition just in case you missed it, seeing as how a lot of you can't take time to look stuff up, I'll be kind enough to provide a definition of Entitled.



Which is precisely how you are all acting.

Everyone is not going to agree on what makes VIP worthwhile. Different people will have different views so whatever SSG comes up with, somebody is going to get upset feeling that they were not listened to.

So SSG is damned if they do or damned if they don't. None of you are ever happy.

Words have more than one definition

VIP are entitled to benefit that they pay for

if they are unhappy with the benefit & stop paying that’s not the definition you are using

[Coffey]

But you see you are indeed acting Entitled.

We are entitled. Not acting entitled. :D

SSG said that paying VIP customers are entitled to something more. They forgot to call a meeting until now and will be meeting this week to conjure something.

I believe Cordovan sounded appreciative for the reminder from the VIPs here on the forums when i was watching the Fri stream.

Something to look forward too :)

[Altra]

You may have the opinion that you spouse it the greatest person in the world, my opinion is that mine is.

Awww <3

[SirShen]

What I dont understand is if VIP is still great value then why was daily gold rolls introduced? I stopped my VIP some months ago because for me it didnt have enough value even with the daily gold rolls. So the best thing for those that are not happy, stop subbing, hit SSG were it hurts money.

[Captain_Wizbang]

At this point its the fact that they can't even come out and say "we are going to improve VIP" that has me the most angry. They can't even formally announce on the forums that they are talking about it, they have to let a player do it for them.

this

[Nickodeamous]

I think what really devalued VIP, and what some folks forgot, was a few years back. SSG gave everyone a code to get all quests outside of expansions, for free. As a VIP, that was one of the perks. I get it was during a pandemic, and that it was a goodwill gesture, but it had the effect of lost value for those folks with VIP that paid for VIP so we didnt have to buy the quest packs. After that, I think VIP subs started saying, hey wait a sec, if you give stuff that we pay for for free, why am I paying for VIP? Well, we get free races, points, etc per month, but I think the free quests kinda stung.

Just my 2 cents.
Nico

[ahpook]

I think what really devalued VIP, and what some folks forgot, was a few years back. SSG gave everyone a code to get all quests outside of expansions, for free. As a VIP, that was one of the perks. I get it was during a pandemic, and that it was a goodwill gesture, but it had the effect of lost value for those folks with VIP that paid for VIP so we didnt have to buy the quest packs. After that, I think VIP subs started saying, hey wait a sec, if you give stuff that we pay for for free, why am I paying for VIP? Well, we get free races, points, etc per month, but I think the free quests kinda stung.

Just my 2 cents.
Nico

It was a factor. I think it was more significant that the content VIPs wanted to play were made into expansions meaning VIPs still had to pay.

[Loromir]

But you see you are indeed acting Entitled.



Darn right I'm entitled...I'm paying out real $$$...so that would be the definition of "entitled".

[Coffey]

I think what really devalued VIP, and what some folks forgot, was a few years back. SSG gave everyone a code to get all quests outside of expansions, for free. As a VIP, that was one of the perks. I get it was during a pandemic, and that it was a goodwill gesture, but it had the effect of lost value for those folks with VIP that paid for VIP so we didnt have to buy the quest packs. After that, I think VIP subs started saying, hey wait a sec, if you give stuff that we pay for for free, why am I paying for VIP? Well, we get free races, points, etc per month, but I think the free quests kinda stung.

Just my 2 cents.
Nico

I think the free content should be added to F2P at this point for good to make the buy in for new players more reasonable.

[Xezom]

It was a factor. I think it was more significant that the content VIPs wanted to play were made into expansions meaning VIPs still had to pay.

I will say that I agree with this as well, but the alternative is something that most would find unpalatable. The dilemma here is that as a VIP you still have to shuck out $60-$120 per new expansion or wait for them to become available for points if you have them stocked up enough to buy with points. Meaning you're paying for a subscription that does not give you access to the majority of the content you would want to play, thus leading to the question: Why am I paying for a subscription?

Even on my TR treadmill characters I still mostly run 2021 free-bee's and expansion content (mostly because the gear in expansions is better and are sagas which give way better exp for the time spent). None of these require VIP anymore. Occasionally, I'll jump over and do a quest line that isn't part of them just a a break from the repetitive, but it's infrequent.

The problem is in the solution. In order to correct this particular issue, they would need to make it so that VIP has access to the expansions as they come out. This would be great for adding a load of value to VIP for those who do NOT currently own all the expansions and for expansions yet to come out, but would have very little impact on those of us who have already bought most, if not all, of the expansions to date. Secondly, their individual sales from expansions to come would dramatically fall. In order to recover some of the funds from these expansions, which we are told is what pays for the next expansions to be able to be released, they would most likely need to raise the cost of VIP to compensate. In it's current state people are unwilling and debating on whether it is worth paying even $10-$15 a month for a subscription, raising the price enough to compensate for the loss of sales in expansions would likely result in the price doubling. The community would be in an uproar. Even with the inclusion of expansions as a perk of VIP, it would be a very hard sell with just that alone (in addition to current benefits).

I've tried to think of a good solution that I felt was both fair to SSG and the players alike on the VIP benefits that wouldn't too heavily impact sales while also providing enough benefit to be worth justifying the $100-$180 /year, but I have yet to come up with anything that in my mind worked out. Free-to-play, Pay-for-Perks Style is a tricky beast indeed.

[yfernbottom]

It was a factor. I think it was more significant that the content VIPs wanted to play were made into expansions meaning VIPs still had to pay.

Yeah, the switch to "mini" expansions with Saltmarsh was pretty significant. We used to get content packs the size of 3BC, Gianthold, and Sands of Mech free with a sub. Now that this will no longer be happening, a lot of value has been sucked out of it.

I think for the long term health of the game, those code giveaways are a must. You can't expect new players to pony up 200+ to get going in game more than a decade old. I say that as someone that owned pretty muhc everything before the first code came out. However, if we had one real expansion (paid only) every year and one mini-expansion (around the size of Saltmarhs) that only VIPs got access to for free for the first year or two it's out, that might help.

[ahpook]

...

I've tried to think of a good solution that I felt was both fair to SSG and the players alike on the VIP benefits that wouldn't too heavily impact sales while also providing enough benefit to be worth justifying the $100-$180 /year, but I have yet to come up with anything that in my mind worked out. Free-to-play, Pay-for-Perks Style is a tricky beast indeed.

On this front, I am still pitching Expansion cost reduction for VIPs. Reduce the cost based on the months subbed so that a new sub gets less than a two year old sub to prevent the a quick sub and cancel from getting the full discount. If VIP saved 30-40% on Expansions that would seem a decent value.

[Stoner81]

I think what really devalued VIP, and what some folks forgot, was a few years back. SSG gave everyone a code to get all quests outside of expansions, for free. As a VIP, that was one of the perks. I get it was during a pandemic, and that it was a goodwill gesture, but it had the effect of lost value for those folks with VIP that paid for VIP so we didnt have to buy the quest packs. After that, I think VIP subs started saying, hey wait a sec, if you give stuff that we pay for for free, why am I paying for VIP? Well, we get free races, points, etc per month, but I think the free quests kinda stung.

Just my 2 cents.
Nico

I completely hear you and what you are saying from your point of view but for myself I disagree...

Those codes were also available to VIP's (I used them both) so really SSG ran the risk of people unsubbing just on that alone but they still did it. What it did do though was draw in massive amounts of new players that had access to all the content so during the height of Covid everybody, for the most part, could actually play content together. It meant that I could play with far more new people and they weren't running in to the massive roadblock of not having access to content. SSG have said that quest packs aren't really a money maker for them since it is a one time purchase only unlike XP pots and the like.

@ thread

I am VIP and have been nearly the entire time I have been playing (except for a few months where I couldn't due to financial restrictions), I will continue with VIP since it still holds value to me. Would I like more for my money? Of course I would, I mean who wouldn't right? :cool: However, I do agree with others that SSG have dropped the ball somewhat here. As stated elsewhere they have had 10 or 11 months to come up with some sort of plan for updating/adding to VIP and at the very least could have said something along the lines of "still early days but we are looking this, this and this to bring more value to VIP's" or something similar, but all we have had really is crickets. With all that being said though things take time of course but surely they could have come up with something in 11 months or however long it is?

Cordo has said that Sev and Tolero will(?) be on the livestream at some point in the near ish future so hopefully we might get more answers, or at least information, then on this topic.

For my own 2 pennies on it I think they should start by looking at F2P, Premium and VIP's overall. Nothing has changed with how any of these work in the entire time I have been playing (which is over 10 years I think). The game that existed back then is very vastly different to what it is now. I mean just look at how things have changed in game? Reaper mode, Epic Destiny revamped, enhancement trees changed to the system we have, universal enhancement trees added to the game etc etc. All 3 models just don't really work well with todays game imho so if they are going to be looking at VIP then do the others while you at it which should in turn help to bring more value to the VIP program.

Stoner81.

[Eantarus]

On this front, I am still pitching Expansion cost reduction for VIPs. Reduce the cost based on the months subbed so that a new sub gets less than a two year old sub to prevent the a quick sub and cancel from getting the full discount. If VIP saved 30-40% on Expansions that would seem a decent value.

I would settle for a higher XP bonus for VIPs and (significantly) more storage. Maybe up the movement speed in public areas a bit, throw in free daily gold roles permanently. It really wouldn't take much to make us happy.

Unfortunately it would take more than nothing, and it looks like less than nothing is what we will get.

[Malveaux]

I think what really devalued VIP, and what some folks forgot, was a few years back. SSG gave everyone a code to get all quests outside of expansions, for free. As a VIP, that was one of the perks. I get it was during a pandemic, and that it was a goodwill gesture, but it had the effect of lost value for those folks with VIP that paid for VIP so we didnt have to buy the quest packs. After that, I think VIP subs started saying, hey wait a sec, if you give stuff that we pay for for free, why am I paying for VIP? Well, we get free races, points, etc per month, but I think the free quests kinda stung.

Just my 2 cents.
Nico


True on a larger scale for VIP. Once I bought everything before the free code. I realized vip was not really worth it. Now it's just a zeitgeist. How much more legs does this game really have?

[Eantarus]

How much more legs does this game really have?

Not many, and each day that passes without some kind of response cuts off one more.

[Coffey]

VIP, F2P, Premium and server capacity needs to be addressed for the necessity of a larger player base.

They should add all the old content to F2P permanently and revamp a lot of the micro transactions and lockouts that disgust a lot of the players / new players.

Unless they commit to increasing and keeping the player base it goes against a future of level 1 - 40 player sprawl.

In the current progression the expanse of levels should actually be a contraction so the shrinking player base doesnt feel like the inevitable last man on earth scenario while playing.

Fortnite got it right.

[thunderhawk123]

sorry vip is **** you get 500 points a month only thing vip has for it and it dose nothing for me we should get all of them day one no more vip or point buying for me and by the time wotc gets done i dont see this game serving

[Eantarus]

SSG has a separate game license for DDO negotiated years ago and thus not affected by all the OGL nonsense going on.

That said, Wizards could still kill it. At some point the license will be up for renewal, wizards will want more money, and SSG will realize they don't have it because of this fiasco.

[Aelonwy]

I think what really devalued VIP, and what some folks forgot, was a few years back. SSG gave everyone a code to get all quests outside of expansions, for free. As a VIP, that was one of the perks. I get it was during a pandemic, and that it was a goodwill gesture, but it had the effect of lost value for those folks with VIP that paid for VIP so we didnt have to buy the quest packs. After that, I think VIP subs started saying, hey wait a sec, if you give stuff that we pay for for free, why am I paying for VIP? Well, we get free races, points, etc per month, but I think the free quests kinda stung.

Just my 2 cents.
Nico


It was a factor. I think it was more significant that the content VIPs wanted to play were made into expansions meaning VIPs still had to pay.

Yes, and yes +


Yeah, the switch to "mini" expansions with Saltmarsh was pretty significant. We used to get content packs the size of 3BC, Gianthold, and Sands of Mech free with a sub. Now that this will no longer be happening, a lot of value has been sucked out of it.

Not to mention previously premium races and classes becoming F2P, not to mention certain races and classes and Iconics still must be purchased even by VIP.

As far as the cachet of content access as a VIP... the luster is off the rose.

Now I'm not saying any of these decisions were poor as far as game direction. Much of the content and premium races and classes have been out and available for years, some over a decade. To appeal to newer and returning players these actions were both brilliant and inevitable. But now something needs to be done to make VIP shiny again for both existing and new possible VIPs. Its just the nature of things.

With the game direction of yearly Expansions and mini-expansions, and premium races/classes/iconics/archetypes?/trees still requiring purchase even for VIP... perhaps content access shouldn't be the main draw of VIP at all but convenience perks.

[cdbd3rd]

I have made suggestions in other places on options for VIP perks, mostly based on what is done on Hobbit-side. Things that focus on convenience.

That's all I'll say on it.

/Props on the OP research, Ael. Also gotta spread myself around some more.

[Eantarus]

I have made suggestions in other places on options for VIP perks, mostly based on what is done on Hobbit-side. Things that focus on convenience.


Many, many, MANY suggestions have been made. So far as I am aware we never got so much as an "we read this" from the devs.

[cmecu]

Yeah, it's funny to get "high" and then realize how poor the vip membership is. SSG really needs to wake up.

As our servers are less and less populated, you would think doing something right now would be a good idea?

I'm baffled at their hands off approach to all of this. Would not take much from them to make vip's happy.

To me , this is my opinion.. giving a company a monthly subscription is like saying, ok guys, I like what your doing and I will do my part by committing to give you money every month as a reward for your good work on maintaining the game.
I dont subscribe because I want new content, expansion. I will pay for that separately. They sell a product and I buy it. That is my reward to them for making something new. I buy it.

I dont subscribe any more to them because of the poor management of the game. Them not listening to us and our concerns and getting stuff fixed. I mean seriously how much longer do we have to wait to get our freaking banks more space? Why do we have to have an account with 20 character slots.. 2 you play, the other 18 are mules carrying items from all the expansions. And spending all day logging in and out in and out getting gear from mules. It is absurd.

What is really enticing about being a subscriber? some extra xp? Not worth it. 500 DDO points every month? Once again, not worth it. But I guess you toss all that along with extra character slots, access to adventure packs, unlocking races , classes.. Most of this you can eventually own with DDO points you earn for free with Favor.

[systemshaker1941]

To me , this is my opinion.. giving a company a monthly subscription is like saying, ok guys, I like what your doing and I will do my part by committing to give you money every month as a reward for your good work on maintaining the game.
I dont subscribe because I want new content, expansion. I will pay for that separately. They sell a product and I buy it. That is my reward to them for making something new. I buy it.

I dont subscribe any more to them because of the poor management of the game. Them not listening to us and our concerns and getting stuff fixed. I mean seriously how much longer do we have to wait to get our freaking banks more space? Why do we have to have an account with 20 character slots.. 2 you play, the other 18 are mules carrying items from all the expansions. And spending all day logging in and out in and out getting gear from mules. It is absurd.

What is really enticing about being a subscriber? some extra xp? Not worth it. 500 DDO points every month? Once again, not worth it. But I guess you toss all that along with extra character slots, access to adventure packs, unlocking races , classes.. Most of this you can eventually own with DDO points you earn for free with Favor.

This is my same feeling. I don't mind paying for the xpacs, that's fair. What I mind is paying for a subscription that adds next to zero extra value to the game. I've been running it over in my head again and again - its basically just an extra 10% XP. That's nothing in the current game.

[akla_thornfist]

I didnt know it was ending untill i logged in yesterday, honestly i dont read dev notes anymore. I will continue my vip subscription lets face it without us the game would end. been here from the beginning would take alot more than lost dice rolls to go ftp. my thought is double the ddo points for favor when vip.

[Oxarhamar]

I didnt know it was ending untill i logged in yesterday, honestly i dont read dev notes anymore. I will continue my vip subscription lets face it without us the game would end. been here from the beginning would take alot more than lost dice rolls to go ftp. my thought is double the ddo points for favor when vip.

OoO I like that idea

[Diracorvus]

I think they will just add new archetypes and epic destinies to vip and then it will be worth it to subscribe for more people. I doubt the devs will just discuss their subscription model on the forums, it's not some gameplay issue after all.

[SilentRunning]

It's not just VIP that are paying real $$$, although a lot of you seem to think so.

[Captain_Wizbang]

double the ddo points for favor when vip.


+1 Thornfist, great suggestion.


I think they will just add new archetypes and epic destinies to vip and then it will be worth it to subscribe for more people. I doubt the devs will just discuss their subscription model on the forums, it's not some gameplay issue after all.


Adding more archetypes is good for the game, but not enough to sway my feelings on ViP value. You are correct on SSG discussing subs and such here. However, it is that lack of communication which has always been an issue with the game's staff.

[Coffey]

It's not just VIP that are paying real $$$, although a lot of you seem to think so.

I think a lot of people pay money to play DDO and are all important in keeping the game going.

This thread was made to show video proof of when improvements to VIP was promised by SSG so they cant pretend they never did.

[Altra]

Husband and I are VIP right now ONLY because we bout a year in Sept.
If we had bought monthly, neither of us would be right now.

[Eantarus]

This thread was made to show video proof of when improvements to VIP was promised by SSG so they cant pretend they never did.

And yet SSG seem to be doing a pretty good job of it all the same.

[salmag]

Interesting.
My comment in this very thread was deleted.

Aelonwy +1, I must spread some rep around.

Thank you for doing the work involved.

[Scrag]

TBH, I kinda felt bullied into VIP when I rejoined.

Everything I did a bunch of years back was now all paywalled, but I could "play". With no expansions other than the one that gave bladeforged, pdk, and (fvs? something else?), I couldn't even do the level 4 quests to get started right in the market place. I had _nowhere_ to go as a ftp to, you know, _play_.

That was insanely frustrating and a bit upsetting. I went 3 month VIP, but then found I didnt get any access to the new stuff I hadn't played 800 times (I actually had alts, and I didn't TR all that often), and that was another blow.

I don't think I will renew when the 3 months is up, even though I spent another 75 or so to get feywild, dread, and ravenloft. I rather like those three expansions, but none of the stuff after ravenloft seems interesting (definitely not jonesing on secrets of sharn).

For me a lot of low-mid level content is where I am happiest. I do have a 23 monk I used to like, and a bladeforged at 22, but that is just all messy and slow since I don't have any epic tome of learning. :/ Its all too slow for me to do solo at normal/hard/(some elite) to do epicness.

[GoldyGopher]

TBH, I kinda felt bullied into VIP when I rejoined.

Everything I did a bunch of years back was now all paywalled, but I could "play". With no expansions other than the one that gave bladeforged, pdk, and (fvs? something else?), I couldn't even do the level 4 quests to get started right in the market place. I had _nowhere_ to go as a ftp to, you know, _play_.

That was insanely frustrating and a bit upsetting. I went 3 month VIP, but then found I didnt get any access to the new stuff I hadn't played 800 times (I actually had alts, and I didn't TR all that often), and that was another blow.

I don't think I will renew when the 3 months is up, even though I spent another 75 or so to get feywild, dread, and ravenloft. I rather like those three expansions, but none of the stuff after ravenloft seems interesting (definitely not jonesing on secrets of sharn).

For me a lot of low-mid level content is where I am happiest. I do have a 23 monk I used to like, and a bladeforged at 22, but that is just all messy and slow since I don't have any epic tome of learning. :/ Its all too slow for me to do solo at normal/hard/(some elite) to do epicness.

Color me confused. Your join date is 2013, more than three years after the launch of DDO: Ebberron Unlimited and a year after the launch of Menace of the Underdark. Favored Soul was a purchasable class in DDO:EU, Purple Dragon is out of MotU, Bladeforged is out of Shadowfell Conspiracy. So at some point you invested in those and you complaints about the paywall ring hollow to me.

[Scrag]

Color me confused. Your join date is 2013, more than three years after the launch of DDO: Ebberron Unlimited and a year after the launch of Menace of the Underdark. Favored Soul was a purchasable class in DDO:EU, Purple Dragon is out of MotU, Bladeforged is out of Shadowfell Conspiracy. So at some point you invested in those and you complaints about the paywall ring hollow to me.

Yeah, thats like 10 years ago! That is a long time to remember back! :) Plus, I didn't play for long, maybe 4 or 5 months or so. I do feel a bit bleh about getting the 3-pack expansion from ages ago when apparently I already had 2 of those (motu and shadowfell), but it was $10 at christmas, so not really.

Coming back and seeing my shared bank account was 100% full (two tabs!) was frustrating as I level brand new alts and cant really shuffle what I get around. :/ Resolving the bank issue costs $$$ points, and that just isn't on the table.

I am effectively running as a new player, because looking at my old chars with a ton of bars is confusing and I have no idea what was picked or why. Plus, there have been changes to a ton of things in those 9-10 years, so it is extra confusing.

If nothing else, having bank space would be highly appreciated. The daily gold rolls were very helpful as the source of exp was useful getting started past four. Ultimately I got the three I did because I just didn't really have a clear understanding of where to go from four, as all the old stuff I played I couldn't play without spending points to open the packs. It is also the reason I picked up vip, because what was _actually_ ftp I couldn't figure out.

[merridyan]

So found out where our daily gold rolls went to. New store item on Lamania Year of Daily Gold Rolls currently listed at 10 DDO points which I imagine is not going to be the real price.

[Aelonwy]

So found out where our daily gold rolls went to. New store item on Lamania Year of Daily Gold Rolls currently listed at 10 DDO points which I imagine is not going to be the real price.

Really?! Really?!

*ROFLMAO*

Wow, that's almost as bad as the OGL thing WotC is trying to pull. I guess adding more value to VIP is NO LONGER the plan going forward.

Hmm and I wonder just how much the reward list and placement of rewards is going to change before this becomes available.

EDIT:
Not to call you a liar, but where are you seeing this in the Lamannia store? I cannot find it.

[Eantarus]

So found out where our daily gold rolls went to. New store item on Lamania Year of Daily Gold Rolls currently listed at 10 DDO points which I imagine is not going to be the real price.

Standard SSG bait-and-switch: give us something, see if we like it, take it away, sell it back. Despicable.

[Memnir]

So found out where our daily gold rolls went to. New store item on Lamania Year of Daily Gold Rolls currently listed at 10 DDO points which I imagine is not going to be the real price.If true:


https://i.imgur.com/hvn3XMy.gif

[Aelonwy]

Standard SSG bait-and-switch: give us something, see if we like it, take it away, sell it back. Despicable.

If true. I searched for it under every category. Can they remove something from the store on the fly? Or just hide it? Don't they have to take the server down to do stuff like that? Frankly, its just not out-of-bounds for what I've come to expect... but at the same time I don't want to complain about someone's possible joke post.

I will say in regards to your comment that I'm somewhat surprised they haven't found a way to monetize teleporting to quests in wilderness zones ala Ravenloft style as something above and beyond the expansion purchase price.

[J1NG]

If true.

I can confirm seeing such an item in the Lam DDO store. Looking at it again now, it is no longer there.

J1NG

[Jynxxx]

If true. I searched for it under every category. Can they remove something from the store on the fly? Or just hide it? Don't they have to take the server down to do stuff like that? Frankly, its just not out-of-bounds for what I've come to expect... but at the same time I don't want to complain about someone's possible joke post.

I will say in regards to your comment that I'm somewhat surprised they haven't found a way to monetize teleporting to quests in wilderness zones ala Ravenloft style as something above and beyond the expansion purchase price.

They did long ago in Stormhorns

Eldovar Fleetleaf (transporter NPC)

He transports you to a quest location of your choice from nearby the entrance, for 3 Astral Shard each. Additionally, he transports you to the following locations for free, if you already found them. Note - Be certain to unlock the camps by clicking/activating the Harper Camp Marker (a large standing stone with the Harper symbol on its side) at each of the three camp sites. Close by each Harper Camp Marker, there will be a small, one-person, animal-hide A-frame shelter (tent), and also small circular lit campfire, which might aid you in spotting the site.

Southwest camp
Northwest camp
North camp

[Aelonwy]

I can confirm seeing such an item in the Lam DDO store. Looking at it again now, it is no longer there.

J1NG

*nods*

Apologies to Merridan then for thinking you were pulling our legs.

Well I can only hope the backlash is mighty because the karma is looking poor.

[Aelonwy]

They did long ago in Stormhorns

Eldovar Fleetleaf (transporter NPC)

He transports you to a quest location of your choice from nearby the entrance, for 3 Astral Shard each. Additionally, he transports you to the following locations for free, if you already found them. Note - Be certain to unlock the camps by clicking/activating the Harper Camp Marker (a large standing stone with the Harper symbol on its side) at each of the three camp sites. Close by each Harper Camp Marker, there will be a small, one-person, animal-hide A-frame shelter (tent), and also small circular lit campfire, which might aid you in spotting the site.

Southwest camp
Northwest camp
North camp

Not exactly what I was thinking, I was thinking more along the lines of a limited account convenience in which you buy the expansion and separately buy the ability to have a drop down menu of teleport/quest locations within said expansion as was included in Ravenloft.

[merridyan]

Really?! Really?!

*ROFLMAO*

Wow, that's almost as bad as the OGL thing WotC is trying to pull. I guess adding more value to VIP is NO LONGER the plan going forward.

Hmm and I wonder just how much the reward list and placement of rewards is going to change before this becomes available.

EDIT:
Not to call you a liar, but where are you seeing this in the Lamannia store? I cannot find it.

I saw it on Strimtoms stream today.

[Eantarus]

Can they remove something from the store on the fly?

They absolutely can. The store is technically a web page, the store thing is an in-game web browser. They can update on the fly(and appear to have done so).

I think if this store item goes live I will be done with the game. I can't believe they're doing this again.

[Cordovan]

I can confirm seeing such an item in the Lam DDO store. Looking at it again now, it is no longer there.

J1NG

Sorry about that, bad timing for it. That is an item created to test the functionality of daily gold rolls more easily, and is not intended to be seen by the general public. That it and a handful of other normally-hidden items were available for a while today on Lamannia was a mistake, and one that has now been corrected.

[Memnir]

Sorry about that, bad timing for it. That is an item created to test the functionality of daily gold rolls more easily, and is not intended to be seen by the general public. That it and a handful of other normally-hidden items were available for a while today on Lamannia was a mistake, and one that has now been corrected.https://i.imgur.com/hvn3XMy.gif

[mbartol]

Sorry about that, bad timing for it. That is an item created to test the functionality of daily gold rolls more easily, and is not intended to be seen by the general public. That it and a handful of other normally-hidden items were available for a while today on Lamannia was a mistake, and one that has now been corrected.

Bad timing to say the least. With so many threads/posts about this touchy subject and SSG’s near silence, using that as a test placeholder is in VERY poor taste. It is trolling the community at best, and many will view it as SSG’s contempt for their own players.

With so many dissatisfied and frustrated players these past several months, this blunder is just baffling.

[Eantarus]

Sorry about that, bad timing for it. That is an item created to test the functionality of daily gold rolls more easily, and is not intended to be seen by the general public. That it and a handful of other normally-hidden items were available for a while today on Lamannia was a mistake, and one that has now been corrected.

Let's screenshot this in case they do try and sell it later on down the road.

[thegreatcthulhu]

Sorry about that, bad timing for it. That is an item created to test the functionality of daily gold rolls more easily, and is not intended to be seen by the general public. That it and a handful of other normally-hidden items were available for a while today on Lamannia was a mistake, and one that has now been corrected.

Yeah, it probably was bad timing, but mistakes are mistakes.

That being said, I have to admit I shamelessly would buy overpriced P2W/Cheat stuff in the store if it provided enough convenience without making the game instantly boring. So, knowing you guys have dev only items lurking in the stores make me salivate. Just saying.

[salmag]

Let's screenshot this in case they do try and sell it later on down the road.

Rest assured.

It's most likely coming.

[Mindos]

Hmmm, people really like the gold roll dailies!

Yeah, how can we monetize this?

Wait, people are ALREADY paying VIP and getting this?

But maybe they'll pay/stay VIP and use their FREE DDO points to buy it in the store!

(insert 3 blind mice graphic with money coinage sounds here)

[Captain_Wizbang]

Sorry about that, bad timing for it. That is an item created to test the functionality of daily gold rolls more easily, and is not intended to be seen by the general public. That it and a handful of other normally-hidden items were available for a while today on Lamannia was a mistake, and one that has now been corrected.


Mistake or not, this would be the single biggest snub to the ViP's ever. Sorry, I don't buy the "item created to test functionality" statement. As promised, my ViP has not been renewed.

[Bunker]

Next Friday Live stream, Cordovan should dress up as Goldmember.

[HippieBallz]

Sorry about that, bad timing for it. That is an item created to test the functionality of daily gold rolls more easily, and is not intended to be seen by the general public. That it and a handful of other normally-hidden items were available for a while today on Lamannia was a mistake, and one that has now been corrected.

sureeeeee testing item

[systemshaker1941]

Mistake or not, this would be the single biggest middle finger to the ViP's ever. Sorry, I don't buy the "item created to test functionality" statement. As promised, my ViP has not been renewed.

I like how Cordo could come into this thread to apologize for the giant middle finger but STILL cannot come right out and say "Yes, we will be improving ViP".

Really makes it clear they are not.

[Belnavar]

It was very clear to me and many others, from how this was presented by SSG, that the daily gold rolls were an interim measure until the long-touted additional VIP benefits in production were rolled out. So, yes, many of us knew this was temporary. The key, however, is that it was either directly stated or heavily implied that when the daily gold rolls lapsed, VIP would have a new benefit, or multiple benefits, to make up for both the loss of that and the loss of so much other value over not just the last few years, but time before that (Tolero clearly stated that they recognised that they had concerns about VIP value even before the pandemic).

Roll forward to early Jan 2023 when the daily gold rolls eventually did stop (they didn't end at the end of 2022, so one could argue they could have continued indefinitely if SSG wanted), and we got absolutely nothing new for VIP. So, not only has VIP lost tonnes of value with all those free coupons and other content (classes/races) being made free (which isn't a bad move in and of itself), but VIPs also lost this interim measure, which was wildly popular, and encouraged players to log in daily (I'm sure the metrics must show a drop-off from this since it lapsed).

At the end of the day, regardless of the technicalities of what was or wasn't said, or what was or wasn't implied, or what was or wasn't promised, the truth is: 1) VIP has lost value consistently over the last number of years. 2) daily gold rolls for VIP was very popular and helped put a bandaid on the situation; 3) VIP needs substantial additions to make it more valuable, beyond even adding back daily gold rolls (but that would be a very good start).

Tolero mentioned that some VIP benefits are not so widely known, and that is true. There should be a VIP panel in game, which showcases all of these benefits. This panel should eventually be used to grant additional rewards (VIP-exclusive pets, horses, boosters, etc.), so it encourages VIPs to check the panel regularly, and thus remind themselves of the other lesser-known benefits.

Here are some ideas for boosting VIP:

1. Grant a monthly free gift via the proposed VIP panel (this could rotate from something cosmetic to something useful, like an XP elixir)
2. Add some kind of visual effect that can be toggled on or off for VIPs -- like maybe the reaper blood footprints, but instead gold footprints. Maybe even a gold aura.
3. Add some kind of graphical boost to character vitals to highlight that they are VIP.
4. Grant a free re-roll per week that can be used on chests. Let this stockpile and show how many are left on the VIP Panel. Let stockpiled re-rolls be used if a lapsed VIP re-subs.
5. Make a VIP saloon/airship, where only VIPs can gather, with a full selection of bank, AH, etc. Grant a port item to there.
6. Grant different additional airship-style buffs from the VIP Saloon, to encourage VIPs to pop in regularly. Make it have a progress bar like guilds, where VIPs across a server work towards unlocking additional buffs, services, and exclusive vendors.
7. Grant VIPs a port to their own guild airship.
8. Grant VIPs access to an exclusive sentient gem (which maybe remarks on how "very important" they are). Allow it to be purchased from a vendor in the VIP Saloon.
9. Grant VIPs a 10% boost to currency acquistion, including tokens of all kinds.
10. Grant VIPs a monthly Astral Shard stipend, in addition to DDO Points. This could be collected from a different (unlockable) vendor at the VIP Saloon, and stockpiled there.

I'm sure I have many more ideas for VIP, but these are just a few off the top of my head.

Regarding the VIP ability to open quests on higher difficulties, I kind of think this should just be made a standard feature of the game -- but not until VIP is boosted further. That change should come with VIP improvements.

Any and/or all of these should be in addition to the existing VIP benefits.

-Bel

[Aelonwy]

8. Grant VIPs access to an exclusive sentient gem (which maybe remarks on how "very important" they are). Allow it to be purchased from a vendor in the VIP Saloon.


That's a new idea. Would it be the Sentient Jewel of the Pompous? Bragging about how awesome itself is? Or Sentient Jewel of the Sycophant? Telling the player how awesome they are? And what happens to it and all the sentient XP fed to it if someone's VIP lapses?

[Loromir]

I like how Cordo could come into this thread to apologize for the giant middle finger but STILL cannot come right out and say "Yes, we will be improving ViP".

Really makes it clear they are not.

....or....he could even say, "We have no plans to improve VIP at this time." Even that would be preferred to the Silence they are currently displaying.

[systemshaker1941]

....or....he could even say, "We have no plans to improve VIP at this time." Even that would be preferred to the Silence they are currently displaying.

Yeah its kind of insanely frustrating. I've never heard of a game where the devs actively hate they players this much.

[Eantarus]

That's a new idea. Would it be the Sentient Jewel of the Pompous? Bragging about how awesome itself is? Or Sentient Jewel of the Sycophant? Telling the player how awesome they are? And what happens to it and all the sentient XP fed to it if someone's VIP lapses?

Change the voiceover so it mocks you for being cheap and cracks jokes about you not having enough money to polish it.

To me that's kind of win-win. Its fun while I am VIP and even funnier while I'm not.

[Eantarus]

I've never heard of a game where the devs actively hate they players this much.

This is why I get so bent out of shape when people describe having a sub as "supporting the game". How can you possibly justify giving money to people who are so openly hateful of your mere presence?

[cdbd3rd]

I had a random thought a while ago on the DD/VIP thing.

What about daily Gold rolls for VIPs, but just 1 per account per day.

Then maybe add a weekly Gold roll for Premium accounts - throwing out an incentive for totally F2P accounts to make a purchase to bump themselves to Premium.


/random thoughts.

[Eantarus]

I had a random thought a while ago on the DD/VIP thing.

What about daily Gold rolls for VIPs, but just 1 per account per day.

Then maybe add a weekly Gold roll for Premium accounts - throwing out an incentive for totally F2P accounts to make a purchase to bump themselves to Premium.


/random thoughts.

I doubt there are many active fully F2P accounts. After a while if you haven't spent the $5 to go premium, its probably because you physically can't; not because you didn't see enough value.

I would not recommend restricting the free daily gold roles to 1 per account instead of 1 per server like it was. They actually created a lot of incentive to pay for transfers. I know some people who waited until they had a good amount of swag on a dice-rolling alt and paid to move it over to their regular server. If you actually got good roles its worth it.

[ahpook]

This is why I get so bent out of shape when people describe having a sub as "supporting the game".


If you are getting bent out of shape on how others choose to spend their money that is a problem that you (much like Cinnis) should deal with. It is not healthy.
The second sentence is extreme hyperbole.* For one, a lack of communication cannot be described as "openly". Statements like that show far more about your feelings than the others and it does not help to foster a beneficial relationship.



* I deleted that sentence from the quote as it likely contravenes TOS

[superevbully]

Sorry about that, bad timing for it. That is an item created to test the functionality of daily gold rolls more easily, and is not intended to be seen by the general public. That it and a handful of other normally-hidden items were available for a while today on Lamannia was a mistake, and one that has now been corrected.

Wow if my eyes had seen this .......bye

[Eantarus]

Wow if my eyes had seen this .......bye

ikr? I so wish someone had screen-shotted it.

[wolfy42]

So found out where our daily gold rolls went to. New store item on Lamania Year of Daily Gold Rolls currently listed at 10 DDO points which I imagine is not going to be the real price.

I am a very long term DDO player. I was in the beta and I have always subbed while playing (I did not play continuously all that time and took many breaks along the way). I also don't care about gold rolls at all.

But if they were to take them away from VIP, not give anything to VIP in place and make it worthwhile, and put it up for sale on the store instead, I would stop subbing. I would still support the game by buying points, but I would not waste my time with VIP anymore. I get nothing from it. Basically a VERY tiny exp bump (aproximately 2% after everything is factored in), and 500 DDO points a month (when with sales you would get 1500 for the same money).

I love this game and want to see it continue. I loved it even more early on when it was more....pure dnd....pre-enhancement trees/epic levels etc, but I grew to love the changes over time. I have paid for well over 30 months of subs that I didn't use/play at all, and don't regret it at all.

If you take gold rolls away and add it to the store, and add nothing to VIP, you are basically slapping everyone in the face who subs, even those who don't care about gold rolls at all. I am pretty sure a large majority of long term players (which is most players now) don't actually feel like the get much if anything from the current VIP bonuses. Forget about unlocking the extra character slots etc with favor points, just from the VIP bonus points you got over the years most of us have played, you could buy all the content, character slots, races, classes easily, not to mention all of the iconic characters and tons of things that are not given to VIP characters already.

Of course those of us who always sub were actually not given the OPTION to buy many of those things you get for being VIP, even when they are on sale, but luckily a few times when not playing I grabbed most everything anyway (Even if it wasn't on sale that way).

I just hope that if people do stop subbing, they still buy points and support DDO. I am amazed (happily) that the game is still around after all this time, and it is still by far my favorite MMO (of all time). I hope that it is around in another 18 years (Even if I probably won't be lol).

There is so much negativity lately. I can't wait for the DnD movie for instance but everyone is down on it because of OGL etc. There is even a new DnD TV show !!!! Coming to paramount+ in the future, and people are saying they won't watch it due to Wizards etc. Wizards is not Dungeons and Dragons. Don't buy 6.0 if you don't like the OGL stuff, but don't kill/ignore/boycott D&D all together. I personally WANT more movies/tv shows/games etc in the DnD realm, and I will do what I can to support them and make it happen. Even if Wizards were truly evil and hated pizza, I would still support DnD games/movies/books etc.

I do humbly request that SSG please consider long term players who have been here since the start, and what they can actually get for supporting the game. We want to, and do support the game (even though at this point we could play totally free and could have for years), but it would be really nice if we got something for it.

[Eantarus]

Wizards is not Dungeons and Dragons.

...Wizards of the Coast make and own DnD. How are they not DnD in your mind? If you buy a DnD product you are giving money to WotC.

(Full disclosure: I don't shive a git about this OGL stuff, I still buy every fancy WotC-released source book I see and spend tons on MTG. I used to spend tons on DDO.)

[wolfy42]

...Wizards of the Coast make and own DnD. How are they not DnD in your mind? If you buy a DnD product you are giving money to WotC.

(Full disclosure: I don't shive a git about this OGL stuff, I still buy every fancy WotC-released source book I see and spend tons on MTG. I used to spend tons on DDO.)

They bought TSR back in the late 90's, they were not the original creators of DnD and they don't own all the years of enjoyment I have had playing DnD. I state they are not DnD not because they don't own the license to sell DnD stuff, or even get money from DnD movies etc, but because I won't stop loving DnD no matter who gains a profit from it's sales etc.

Movies/books etc may end up paying Wizards if we watch them, but at least for me that won't stop me from enjoying them. I still want them to be created and it's sad if a bad company ends up gaining from that, but boycotting all DnD movies etc just means there will be no more of them (From anyone). I don't want to be in that world.

[Belnavar]

That's a new idea. Would it be the Sentient Jewel of the Pompous? Bragging about how awesome itself is? Or Sentient Jewel of the Sycophant? Telling the player how awesome they are? And what happens to it and all the sentient XP fed to it if someone's VIP lapses?

It would be permanently kept after VIP expires, but players wouldn't be able to acquire a new one from the VIP Saloon until they re-subbed.

-Bel

[Oxarhamar]

...Wizards of the Coast make and own DnD. How are they not DnD in your mind? If you buy a DnD product you are giving money to WotC.

(Full disclosure: I don't shive a git about this OGL stuff, I still buy every fancy WotC-released source book I see and spend tons on MTG. I used to spend tons on DDO.)

WoTC already about faced the decision because of feedback & much like DDO changed the ED revamp

[Eantarus]

& much like DDO changed the ED revamp

Wait the ED revamp was once even WORSE?

[Oxarhamar]

Wait the ED revamp was once even WORSE?

Yep ????

[Uska]

I was playing daily now I haven't played for two weeks and no current interest

[Dandonk]

Will be "interesting" to see what, if anything, they will have to say today...

[Karthunk]

Glad I ran into this thread. I was thinking of coming back to play with the new archetypes but not having access to the exp stones from the daily rolls has killed all the desire.

[systemshaker1941]

Glad I ran into this thread. I was thinking of coming back to play with the new archetypes but not having access to the exp stones from the daily rolls has killed all the desire.

Ayup.

There's at least as much ire about this as horses in taverns, but the horse thing got fixed in under a week. Proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that only certain "voices" get attention around here.

[Aelonwy]

Change the voiceover so it mocks you for being cheap and cracks jokes about you not having enough money to polish it.

To me that's kind of win-win. Its fun while I am VIP and even funnier while I'm not.

That's quite hilarious. Not a bad possibility.



It would be permanently kept after VIP expires, but players wouldn't be able to acquire a new one from the VIP Saloon until they re-subbed.

-Bel

Idk. What's to stop someone from subbing one month and buying as many as they wanted then? At the same time if a VIP devoted sentient XP to it, loosing it or the item its in becoming un-equipable if VIP lapses doesn't seem very player friendly. Its a neat idea, I'm just not certain its a good fit for the situation.

[systemshaker1941]

Idk. What's to stop someone from subbing one month and buying as many as they wanted then?

The answer to that one is simple: you make it so that specific sentient gem gives 0 sentient XP. If someone wants to sub for a month and pick up 100 gems, let 'em. Its not like the silly things are hard to get. Realistically unless you play like a crackhead(in which case you probably have a sub) its impossible to max out more than 3 or 4 sentient gems. The process of getting an empty gem just isn't a barrier that needs to be walled-off.

Other options include: make the gem 1 per character/life(just like rloft), make the game exclusive and put the NPC far away from the bank, or limit the number that can be collected. Say 1 per month of sub.

This is possibly the easiest problem to solve.




At the same time if a VIP devoted sentient XP to it, loosing it or the item its in becoming un-equipable if VIP lapses doesn't seem very player friendly. Its a neat idea, I'm just not certain its a good fit for the situation.

I think its really not that difficult and would be a great little perk, especially if they hired a good voice actor and made him do more than 1 take. It wouldn't make me buy VIP again by itself, but it's something.

[Captain_Wizbang]

would be a great little perk, especially if they hired a good voice actor and made him do more than 1 take. It wouldn't make me buy VIP again by itself, but it's something.


I agree with part 2 of your post, I keep sentient voice off, so any sentient is worthless to me as a ViP perk.

[Aelonwy]

The answer to that one is simple: you make it so that specific sentient gem gives 0 sentient XP. If someone wants to sub for a month and pick up 100 gems, let 'em. Its not like the silly things are hard to get. Realistically unless you play like a crackhead(in which case you probably have a sub) its impossible to max out more than 3 or 4 sentient gems. The process of getting an empty gem just isn't a barrier that needs to be walled-off.

Other options include: make the gem 1 per character/life(just like rloft), make the game exclusive and put the NPC far away from the bank, or limit the number that can be collected. Say 1 per month of sub.

This is possibly the easiest problem to solve.

Those are good ideas. 1 per month of sub and exclusive makes it special enough I think. For me something to be considered a VIP perk needs to be special in some way. I did really like Eantarus idea of the Gem's commentary changing when the sub lapses.

I, personally, do NOT have even a single gem maxed out but I know a couple players with more than half a dozen.

[Aelonwy]

I agree with part 2 of your post, I keep sentient voice off, so any sentient is worthless to me as a ViP perk.

Aww. I really, really enjoy a few of them. They need to back off on the over-processed to the point of intelligibility though.

[Xgya]

Idk. What's to stop someone from subbing one month and buying as many as they wanted then? At the same time if a VIP devoted sentient XP to it, loosing it or the item its in becoming un-equipable if VIP lapses doesn't seem very player friendly. Its a neat idea, I'm just not certain its a good fit for the situation.

Yeah, I'd like it to be more like the Alabaster Lioness kind of deal, except every few months something new.
Were you subbed back in December 2043? Well you earned *cosmetic cool thing*.

Then, end of year bonus, "Remember *thing* that was given back this year? Well, as a year end bonus, VIP subscribers get to pick one!" - but only one (unlike the ones you actually earned, that you just get to re-claim every time you make a new character). Just make it work like the reward boxes they handed out, one per account, gives a neat cosmetic you might have missed out on, or a few astral shards if you didn't.

So actually having the thing feels special, but people that missed out don't feel entirely cheated out of the system either.

[Equatis]

I've played D&D since 1973 when I bought the old red box edition. I love this game and don't intend to stop playing it, a dice bag and full set of dice will be burried with me, just in case I can get St. Peter and the Angels interested in getting a game started lol. I am now retired and on a set pension, VIP and still occasionally letting it lapse so I can buy content I do not own just incase cost of living goes up and I have to lose my sub.
Does the VIP sub have real value for me ? Not really altho being able to enter on elite without running normal/hard first is nice, I run with others most times so that doesn't even matter to me. I do think there should be some added value to VIP though and maybe the following could be considered.

[B]What I think would make a good VIP perk is Veteran Status I, but with a twist, as long as you remain VIP you can TR into a level 1 character with enough XP to reach level 4. This would allow you to have the choice of starting as level 1 or level 4 every TR life.

Whether Veteran Status I was auto granted when subscribing, or needed to be earned in game still, as long as after wards it could be applied to both new and Tr characters (Veterans) either way would make it a VIP perk. This would in no real way give VIP's more power then could be granted in game, they would just be able to skip the first 3 levels of earning XP and guarentee them a little faster TR life. By allowing them to start at level 1 if they wanted to for favor earning etc. or skip ahead to level 4 for a faster TR if that was their desire.

[GoldyGopher]

I've played D&D since 1973 when I bought the old red box edition. I love this game and don't intend to stop playing it, a dice bag and full set of dice will be burried with me, just in case I can get St. Peter and the Angels interested in getting a game started lol. I am now retired and on a set pension, VIP and still occasionally letting it lapse so I can buy content I do not own just incase cost of living goes up and I have to lose my sub.

The first Box set was 1977, the Red Box was 1981, and D&D original 3 book set was 1974. My mimeographed copy from my Original DM, is from 1973.

[Eantarus]

I agree with part 2 of your post, I keep sentient voice off, so any sentient is worthless to me as a ViP perk.

I find the "You're about to die!" audio que very worthwhile.


Those are good ideas. 1 per month of sub and exclusive makes it special enough I think. For me something to be considered a VIP perk needs to be special in some way. I did really like Eantarus idea of the Gem's commentary changing when the sub lapses.

I, personally, do NOT have even a single gem maxed out but I know a couple players with more than half a dozen.

There was a recent wave of cheating that made some players more easily able to max many gems, but I won't comment on that further. Beyond that, if you play a lot of DDO, have only 1 character, and feed everything you don't actively need... yeah, its plenty easy to max out half a dozen. However, in the time it takes you to max those out, you could also pick up about 100 sentient gems, so again getting a gem is not the barrier to using one.

So yeah, a VIP-exclusive sentient gem would definitely be a fun perk however they want to do it. I don't even think it needs any limits beyond not being feedable.

[Dandonk]

Will be "interesting" to see what, if anything, they will have to say today...

Unsurprisingly enough, Cordovan had nothing to say at all.

I guess that's the only "communications strategy" SSG has - not communicating at all.

[Oxarhamar]

I've played D&D since 1973 when I bought the old red box edition. I love this game and don't intend to stop playing it, a dice bag and full set of dice will be burried with me, just in case I can get St. Peter and the Angels interested in getting a game started lol. I am now retired and on a set pension, VIP and still occasionally letting it lapse so I can buy content I do not own just incase cost of living goes up and I have to lose my sub.
Does the VIP sub have real value for me ? Not really altho being able to enter on elite without running normal/hard first is nice, I run with others most times so that doesn't even matter to me. I do think there should be some added value to VIP though and maybe the following could be considered.

[B]What I think would make a good VIP perk is Veteran Status I, but with a twist, as long as you remain VIP you can TR into a level 1 character with enough XP to reach level 4. This would allow you to have the choice of starting as level 1 or level 4 every TR life.

Whether Veteran Status I was auto granted when subscribing, or needed to be earned in game still, as long as after wards it could be applied to both new and Tr characters (Veterans) either way would make it a VIP perk. This would in no real way give VIP's more power then could be granted in game, they would just be able to skip the first 3 levels of earning XP and guarentee them a little faster TR life. By allowing them to start at level 1 if they wanted to for favor earning etc. or skip ahead to level 4 for a faster TR if that was their desire.

+1

[Paladin_of_Power]

The new VIP Value perk will be a giant Gold d100 on top of your head and if your Dragonborn when you head bang your d100 will roll off your head and crush non-VIP people around you. Half Orcs and PDK can take their Gold d100 and throw it at non-VIP characters.

[Amorais]

My VIP Ideas:

* Able to suppress the "wwwwhhhhooooooooooooooooooPPPPPPPPPBAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!" sound in quests when you get bonus xp. Possibly *THE* most annoying sound in any game ever
* Mute repeating crossbow *thup thup thup"....."thup thup thup"......"thup thup thup"....combined with the above means unfortunately mute all sound in the game most of the time, oh and when combined with the below...
* A slider to stop every single hit causing an "ow!" sound from the mob or "clang clang clang clang clang clang clang clang..." when fighting an armoured enemy.
* Get one extra lesser heart for new characters
* VIP starter pack bound to character with xp pot, random hair dye, slayer pot and 5 x CLW / 5x CMW pots, 5 x Mnemonic elixir and a 10 charge teleport to marketplace token.
* VIP need 75% of the quaals tokens for horses
* VIP exclusive horse colour
* VIP exclusive floaty name colour
* VIP character titles
* VIP NPC in the harbour who can cast an hour long expeditious retreat on VIP players
* VIP Character level 30 announcements
* VIP Completionist announcements
* VIP Completionist titles for each type
* VIP exclusive global chat channel - cross server if possible
* VIP hair colour bank. Store your collected and bought dyes, click desired hair colour
* VIP Only character slot specifically for a mule. NPC is lvl 1, cannot enter quests but has maxed (non-bought) bags, cannot be guilded or gain xp

[Eantarus]

* VIP Only character slot specifically for a mule. NPC is lvl 1, cannot enter quests but has maxed (non-bought) bags, cannot be guilded or gain xp

Only if the model for the VIP is a literal mule.

[Aelonwy]

* VIP exclusive horse colour

What happens to the horse when VIP lapses? Greyed out till VIP again? I would suggest a gold shiny horse. Or maybe a horse of a different color? It could be a different color every time you summon it.



* VIP exclusive floaty name colour

So Gold?



* VIP NPC in the harbour who can cast an hour long expeditious retreat on VIP players


Harbor not Korthos? How about Gerald Goodblade, he's not doing much these days but telling Tall Tales.



* VIP exclusive global chat channel - cross server if possible


Hmmm I'm torn. With low population, we could really use a global chat channel for everyone. I could see VIP having further access to across server, assuming it is even possible with virtual servers.

I did like the idea someone on some thread (sorry I've lost track of what is where at this point) had of a VIP vendor that sold plat discounted potions/scrolls/buffs among other things regardless of faction favor or being in a guild. For most VIPS that wouldn't matter much but for new players that go VIP it could be really useful.

[Eantarus]

I did like the idea someone on some thread (sorry I've lost track of what is where at this point) had of a VIP vendor that sold plat discounted potions/scrolls/buffs among other things regardless of faction favor or being in a guild. For most VIPS that wouldn't matter much but for new players that go VIP it could be really useful.

It was me and it was actually plat marked-up faction stuff. Kill two birds with 1 stone: get plat out of the system and give VIPs value. VIPs are the ones most likely to be suffering from plat-glut.

[Xgya]

What happens to the horse when VIP lapses? Greyed out till VIP again? I would suggest a gold shiny horse. Or maybe a horse of a different color? It could be a different color every time you summon it.

Counterproposal (and fitting because you could more easily remove it after losing VIP): Death Follows you: Horse version. Pick between butterflies follow you, golden horseshoes follow you... Lose the benefits when you lose VIP.

So not an actual horse, a spell effect you could get that makes you being on a horse a lot more splashy than usual.
I mean, sure, dinosaurs are cool, but how about a dinosaur that farts rainbows? Or a Nightmare that leaves burning hoofprints as you go?

[Aelonwy]

It was me and it was actually plat marked-up faction stuff. Kill two birds with 1 stone: get plat out of the system and give VIPs value. VIPs are the ones most likely to be suffering from plat-glut.

Perhaps I'm misremembering as a combination of ideas from you and someone else.

[Aelonwy]

Counterproposal (and fitting because you could more easily remove it after losing VIP): Death Follows you: Horse version. Pick between butterflies follow you, golden horseshoes follow you... Lose the benefits when you lose VIP.

So not an actual horse, a spell effect you could get that makes you being on a horse a lot more splashy than usual.
I mean, sure, dinosaurs are cool, but how about a dinosaur that farts rainbows? Or a Nightmare that leaves burning hoofprints as you go?

Interesting, a VIP-only cosmetic feat toggle... yeah that would work.

[Eantarus]

Perhaps I'm misremembering as a combination of ideas from you and someone else.

Possible. I don't really care if its discounted or marked up, just the basic idea of "VIPs can buy all the favor-unlock consumables".

[Aelonwy]

Possible. I don't really care if its discounted or marked up, just the basic idea of "VIPs can buy all the favor-unlock consumables".

Just occurred to me so I had to log back but kill two birds with one stone made me think the vendor could have the usual faction buffs/guild consumables for discounted price to VIPs and then longer duration buffs and higher caster level thus longer duration buff scrolls/wands for MORE PLAT to VIPS such as 15 min shield wands, maybe 10 min deathward scrolls, 10 min Heroes' Feast Scrolls. Not sure what else might be useful in a convenience way without being too OP. Mainly trying to think of things available elsewhere with just shorter duration.

[Eantarus]

Just occurred to me so I had to log back but kill two birds with one stone made me think the vendor could have the usual faction buffs/guild consumables for discounted price to VIPs and then longer duration buffs and higher caster level thus longer duration buff scrolls/wands for MORE PLAT to VIPS such as 15 min shield wands, maybe 10 min deathward scrolls, 10 min Heroes' Feast Scrolls. Not sure what else might be useful in a convenience way without being too OP. Mainly trying to think of things available elsewhere with just shorter duration.

I like that idea too.

Another thought: make the items sold BtC. That way you can't sub, fill up 20 mules with stuff, then un-sub(though I think if you wanted to go to that much trouble for some minor buffs what's the harm?)

[gravisrs]

Why they are not improving VIP? Well first of all - Inflation.

10 bucks back in the 2006 is about 15 bucks now - so the price of VIP relatively decreased - same for DDOPoints (that's why new packs costs 700+TP because of today's value)

But from the other side - server costs dropped 5x times (I've compared OVH and few other datacenter prices) when comparing resource power to monthly cost. So the part of VIP money that was funding the servers dropped also. But again - spaghetti code inflation made DDO eats 10x-100x times (subjective) resources per player.


Solution to proceed with better VIP bonuses? Fix code first (incl. lag)!

Now imagine:
1. Fixed code will make all players happy (no lag) and let servers be crowded 10-100 times more without issues.
2. Then you can start some real marketing campaigns to attract more players who will pay more VIP's - without risk of bad experience (no lag).
3. Bring better VIP bonuses (added value only, because no lag) - so the VIP ratio goes up.
4. Profit.

[Eantarus]

10 bucks back in the 2006 is about 15 bucks now - so the price of VIP relatively decreased - same for DDOPoints (that's why new packs costs 700+TP because of today's value)


Small problem with your logic is that as the game ages, its relative value also goes down. Sure a sub for a new game is $15 while DDO is still 10, but DDO is also 17 years old. Why should I pay the going rate for a a modern game sub when I could take that money and buy 10x more game with it on any modern MMO?

Second problem is adding VIP benefits doesn't necessarily cost anything to SSG. Changing the 10% XP bonus to 25 adds significantly more value but costs SSG $0 to implement. This becomes important when combined with the above: they have a 17 year old game that's trying to compete with modern ones. They can't compete on features, so they have to compete on cost and value.

[FixBows]

I am one of those who clearly remembers this video and the Dev team (represented by the producer) making statements like they were going to make improvements over the next year. I am not really understanding how anyone can listen to this and not take away that they (SSG) know VIP (which she said is a program that is supposed to make us feel special) is lacking in its current form. A lot of the discussion was focused on the VIPs (what it was back then) getting all the content and NOT having to go into the store and buy stuff. Nothing can be further from the truth. We get very little content for free beyond what a non-subscription-based person is getting. The reality is that most of what is being developed is content and system CHANGES, not new content, that is free for everyone. Mini-expansions were the catalyst and the epic disaster that it was for LOTRO. They tried to get ahead of it on DDO and offered up the free gold rolls. Now, a year later, they have nothing to show for their 'time to reflect' on VIP.

If I had a year to come up with a program / project for an unhappy customer, you better bet your life I would have something to put in front of my customer. I am in a service industry, and I do deliver projects to customers for a living and customer satisfaction is a huge part of what I do. This is inexcusable, disrespectful, and disregards the hard-earned money of their customers. Putting feelings for the game aside, they intimated that they were working on making VIP a program that gives the customers a good feeling. All you have to do is read the endless posts on this topic to know that they did not deliver anything... they just took something away. If I ever had this much of a c-sat issue on one of my projects, I probably would already have been replaced months ago.

[Eantarus]

I am one of those who clearly remembers this video and the Dev team (represented by the producer) making statements like they were going to make improvements over the next year. I am not really understanding how anyone can listen to this and not take away that they (SSG) know VIP (which she said is a program that is supposed to make us feel special) is lacking in its current form. A lot of the discussion was focused on the VIPs (what it was back then) getting all the content and NOT having to go into the store and buy stuff. Nothing can be further from the truth. We get very little content for free beyond what a non-subscription-based person is getting. The reality is that most of what is being developed is content and system CHANGES, not new content, that is free for everyone. Mini-expansions were the catalyst and the epic disaster that it was for LOTRO. They tried to get ahead of it on DDO and offered up the free gold rolls. Now, a year later, they have nothing to show for their 'time to reflect' on VIP.

If I had a year to come up with a program / project for an unhappy customer, you better bet your life I would have something to put in front of my customer. I am in a service industry, and I do deliver projects to customers for a living and customer satisfaction is a huge part of what I do. This is inexcusable, disrespectful, and disregards the hard-earned money of their customers. Putting feelings for the game aside, they intimated that they were working on making VIP a program that gives the customers a good feeling. All you have to do is read the endless posts on this topic to know that they did not deliver anything... they just took something away. If I ever had this much of a c-sat issue on one of my projects, I probably would already have been replaced months ago.

Its completely unforgivable how insanely slow they are moving on this. An entire year to deliberate and they can't even agree that they will give us improved benefits is simply unacceptable.

In literally any other properly-functioning business model, the schedule would go something like this:

-An afternoon to come up with the plan
-3 days for a complete cost/benefit analysis
-The rest of the month to implement it

Unless they need to make huge underlying system changes(like VIP teleport to quest entrance) that's how long it should take.

With SSG, we are at 1 year and counting and they can't even say yes or no.

Time to end the subs altogether.

[Michaelaz2]

Thank you so much for digging this up. Despite Cordovan's recent assertions that VIP "is good value", this was not the stance a year ago.

"Good Value" for who? He doesn't have to pay for anything , so let him explain how its a "good value"

[Eantarus]

"Good Value" for who? He doesn't have to pay for anything , so let him explain how its a "good value"

Well, after having participated in all of the "VIP needs improvement" threads in the past few weeks, I would say the only people who think VIP is a good value fall into 1 of 2 categories:

#1. Tubby dolphins who just started playing a week ago

And

#2. People who describe buying a sub as giving charity to SSG

I've not met anyone else who found 10% XP + some movement speed to be be worth $8.50 a month.

[Martininice]

Its completely unforgivable how insanely slow they are moving on this. An entire year to deliberate and they can't even agree that they will give us improved benefits is simply unacceptable.

In literally any other properly-functioning business model, the schedule would go something like this:

-An afternoon to come up with the plan
-3 days for a complete cost/benefit analysis
-The rest of the month to implement it

Unless they need to make huge underlying system changes(like VIP teleport to quest entrance) that's how long it should take.

With SSG, we are at 1 year and counting and they can't even say yes or no.

Time to end the subs altogether.

It is so mind-boggling how much they alienate their customers for very, very little money (the rare stuff in the roll tables people actually buy), I sometimes wonder how much Daybreak has a say here. Let's not forget, their business model is mainly milk aged games to death.

[Eantarus]

It is so mind-boggling how much they alienate their customers for very, very little money (the rare stuff in the roll tables people actually buy), I sometimes wonder how much Daybreak has a say here. Let's not forget, their business model is mainly milk aged games to death.

We know Daybreak owns a lot more of the company than SSG is willing to admit. If I recall correctly during the original transition from Turbine to SSG, they claimed the company was now "employee-owned" or something to that effect. Then later on when the EG7 news broke, we found out that, no, SSG is owned almost of not entirely by daybreak.

All that being said, I don't believe Daybreak was behind killing gold roles. We knew the end of gold roles was coming, we were just expecting them to fix VIP first.

Personally, I'm surprised Daybreak/EG7 isn't crawling straight up SSG's behind over getting VIP sub numbers up. It seems like they have the most to loose(as the profit-seekers) and the most to gain(see same) from improved sales numbers.

[RTN]

It's all just really disheartening. We know they don't have a ton of resources, even if they won't say it. I believe that they care about the game and the quality of the game. But I think they've also made it pretty clear that they care a lot less about us and they especially don't care much about subscribers. If they simply don't have the resources, then they need to communicate it. But the degrading of VIP value and going back on longstanding promises, then running away and cowering from us is truly an old, tired act. I'm literally only still here because I play with a static group of friends. If I wasn't, I'd be long gone. The game isn't keeping me, that's for sure.

[Eantarus]

It's all just really disheartening. We know they don't have a ton of resources, even if they won't say it. I believe that they care about the game and the quality of the game. But I think they've also made it pretty clear that they care a lot less about us and they especially don't care much about subscribers. If they simply don't have the resources, then they need to communicate it. But the degrading of VIP value and going back on longstanding promises, then running away and cowering from us is truly an old, tired act. I'm literally only still here because I play with a static group of friends. If I wasn't, I'd be long gone. The game isn't keeping me, that's for sure.

Except that it doesn't take a lot of resources to change a 10 to a 25 in a database entry, or turn gold roles back on, or do any one of the 100 simple changes we've suggested. In fact leaving daily gold roles up actually cost negative resources, since taking them down required effort.

[Mindos]

Mini-expansions were the catalyst and the epic disaster that it was for LOTRO. They tried to get ahead of it on DDO and offered up the free gold rolls. Now, a year later, they have nothing to show for their 'time to reflect' on VIP.

True. At least they've consistently upset both set of customers.

[Eantarus]

True. At least they've consistently upset both set of customers.

At least there's that.

[FixBows]

Its completely unforgivable how insanely slow they are moving on this. An entire year to deliberate and they can't even agree that they will give us improved benefits is simply unacceptable.

In literally any other properly-functioning business model, the schedule would go something like this:

-An afternoon to come up with the plan
-3 days for a complete cost/benefit analysis
-The rest of the month to implement it

Unless they need to make huge underlying system changes(like VIP teleport to quest entrance) that's how long it should take.

With SSG, we are at 1 year and counting and they can't even say yes or no.

Time to end the subs altogether.

And to further your point, if they did want to do something like your example of VIP teleport or something that requires a larger effort, they could at least say something indicating they are currently working on it. The opposite is what they are saying. SSG now has reversed course from what clearly was intimated in the video posted here about VIP not feeling very special. Now, magically, everything is fine with VIP and gold rolls were simply something SSG gave to us out of the kindness of their hearts for a short time and we should be grateful for that brief moment of charity. We also seem to have glossed over the fact that we are now receiving less free content with the introduction of mini-expansions on top of the already wildly expensive expansions. So, like I have said in other posts, we are currently getting less for our dollar than before. Factor in the economy and the inflation.... subscribers are for sure going to be re-evaluating their expenditures.

Whomever you want to blame here, I really don't care. SSG or Daybreak/EG7... doesn't really matter. What matters is what we are getting vs what we were getting and the silence on the subject. Look, I get maybe not wanting to comment when it comes to unpopular game play changes, but this is subscriber dollars. They need to open up about this and let us know what the plan is, or isn't and let folks understand what to expect, or not expect, so we can make our own decisions on what to do with our money.

[Eantarus]

And to further your point, if they did want to do something like your example of VIP teleport or something that requires a larger effort, they could at least say something indicating they are currently working on it. The opposite is what they are saying. SSG now has reversed course from what clearly was intimated in the video posted here about VIP not feeling very special. Now, magically, everything is fine with VIP and gold rolls were simply something SSG gave to us out of the kindness of their hearts for a short time and we should be grateful for that brief moment of charity. We also seem to have glossed over the fact that we are now receiving less free content with the introduction of mini-expansions on top of the already wildly expensive expansions. So, like I have said in other posts, we are currently getting less for our dollar than before. Factor in the economy and the inflation.... subscribers are for sure going to be re-evaluating their expenditures.

Whomever you want to blame here, I really don't care. SSG or Daybreak/EG7... doesn't really matter. What matters is what we are getting vs what we were getting and the silence on the subject. Look, I get maybe not wanting to comment when it comes to unpopular game play changes, but this is subscriber dollars. They need to open up about this and let us know what the plan is, or isn't and let folks understand what to expect, or not expect, so we can make our own decisions on what to do with our money.

Their silence makes the point pretty freaking clearly. We get nothing.

[Oxarhamar]

Their silence makes the point pretty freaking clearly. We get nothing.

It’s been discussed though

[Eantarus]

It’s been discussed though

The discussion:

"Hey, VIP is loosing a lot of its value."
"What? VIP is a great value!"
"But the players are saying--"
*Crickets*
"They are getting really upset."
*Crickets*
"...Ok, then."

*Crickets*

*Crickets*

*Crickets*

[Oxarhamar]

The discussion:

"Hey, VIP is loosing a lot of its value."
"What? VIP is a great value!"
"But the players are saying--"
*Crickets*
"They are getting really upset."
*Crickets*
"...Ok, then."

*Crickets*

*Crickets*

*Crickets*

Missing the discussion there

[FixBows]

I think it is now safe to say SSG is not willing to do anything for VIP more than what we are left with after taking much of the value away over the last year or so. I for one will not be renewing my subscription when it runs out. It will be up to us as the consumer to make a decision on how to spend, or not spend, our money. Pretty simple. We asked, they say no... so ball in our court.

[Eantarus]

I think it is now safe to say SSG is not willing to do anything for VIP more than what we are left with after taking much of the value away over the last year or so. I for one will not be renewing my subscription when it runs out. It will be up to us as the consumer to make a decision on how to spend, or not spend, our money. Pretty simple. We asked, they say no... so ball in our court.

Yes. I for one am taking my ball to a new court.

[yfernbottom]

Yes. I for one am taking my ball to a new court.

Yeah, I'm going to try and hit 20 on the HC server but I cancelled my sub as well. Opening quests on hard and elite on a first life character in heroics is the only part of VIP I care about in the slightest without daily gold rolls. That's not enough to sub for.

[Eantarus]

Yeah, I'm going to try and hit 20 on the HC server but I cancelled my sub as well. Opening quests on hard and elite on a first life character in heroics is the only part of VIP I care about in the slightest without daily gold rolls. That's not enough to sub for.

Yeah in this day and age it simply isn't enough of an issue to warrant paying for. Most longtime players(the majority of VIPs) aren't going to be on first/second life chars outside of HCL. And inside of HCL(for those that even play it) there's always an opener on hand.

Doesn't look like we'll be getting improved benefits. So sad.

Personally I'm probably just going to go play a different game. Am so badly insulted by this whole debacle it's left a bitter taste in my mouth.

[Oxarhamar]

Yeah in this day and age it simply isn't enough of an issue to warrant paying for. Most longtime players(the majority of VIPs) aren't going to be on first/second life chars outside of HCL. And inside of HCL(for those that even play it) there's always an opener on hand.

Doesn't look like we'll be getting improved benefits. So sad.

Personally I'm probably just going to go play a different game. Am so badly insulted by this whole debacle it's left a bitter taste in my mouth.

If you watch the most recent video it is being discussed internally

[Eantarus]

If you watch the most recent video it is being discussed internally

That just means 6-12 more months before anything actually gets done. And that's assuming the internal "Discussions" don't come out to "its fine as is". They've had a year to discuss so sounds like that's all that's ever going to happen.

[Oxarhamar]

That just means 6-12 more months before anything actually gets done. And that's assuming the internal "Discussions" don't come out to "its fine as is". They've had a year to discuss so sounds like that's all that's ever going to happen.

If that’s how you interpret it

That’s just how it goes here they don’t put out much until it’s close

I’d expect something more in the producer’s letter

[mbartol]

The problem is that they waited until after many players got fed up when the daily gold rolls were turned off. For the 10 months since saying they will improve VIP, what happened internally? During the past 3 weeks, they didn’t even attempt any damage control while players continued begging for dialogue. How many players have FINALLY had enough during the last few weeks? How much damage has SSG done to their player base?

I’m sure they will have something to announce in the Producer’s Letter next month, if not sooner when Sev is joining Cordovan at this week’s Fridays at Four. Maybe they’ll have a great VIP package to roll out, but their current internal discussions sure suggest that it’s only a reactionary measure after losing VIP subscribers.

Didn’t they care enough to have a plan in place BEFORE the temporary daily gold rolls expired? Don’t they care enough to engage with the community now?

[Ereshkigal]

The problem is that they waited until after many players got fed up when the daily gold rolls were turned off. For the 10 months since saying they will improve VIP, what happened internally? During the past 3 weeks, they didn’t even attempt any damage control while players continued begging for dialogue. How many players have FINALLY had enough during the last few weeks? How much damage has SSG done to their player base?

I’m sure they will have something to announce in the Producer’s Letter next month, if not sooner when Sev is joining Cordovan at this week’s Fridays at Four. Maybe they’ll have a great VIP package to roll out, but their current internal discussions sure suggest that it’s only a reactionary measure after losing VIP subscribers.

Didn’t they care enough to have a plan in place BEFORE the temporary daily gold rolls expired? Don’t they care enough to engage with the community now?

lol @ "reactionary measure".

First you say they're dragging their feet, and then you say they're being reactionary?


c'mon.

They said almost a year ago they wanted to do something different, and they also said it would likely not be happening during 2022, whatever they decided to do.

It's no their fault if people refuse to read and comprehend their communications.

[Nimdeadlee]

First you say they're dragging their feet, and then you say they're being reactionary?

Makes perfect sense to me. Only being spurred into action by events caused by lack of expedient action, rather than proactively preventing said events occurring in the first place.

[Eantarus]

If that’s how you interpret it


There's seriously not any other way to interpret it. They had 10 months. If they still need discussion after 10 months, then its not going to happen.


The problem is that they waited until after many players got fed up when the daily gold rolls were turned off. For the 10 months since saying they will improve VIP, what happened internally? During the past 3 weeks, they didn’t even attempt any damage control while players continued begging for dialogue. How many players have FINALLY had enough during the last few weeks? How much damage has SSG done to their player base?

I counted 20 people on the boards here say they had either canceled their subs or had no intention to renew. If we go by the usual "1 person posted for every 10 that did it" then that's 200 lost subs, conservatively. Hard to say how much higher the number actually is.



I’m sure they will have something to announce in the Producer’s Letter next month, if not sooner when Sev is joining Cordovan at this week’s Fridays at Four.

We're kind of at a point where no matter what they come up with it's gonna be too little, too late. I really struggle to imagine what they could possibly come up with that would bring back so many angry, disillusioned players.



Didn’t they care enough to have a plan in place BEFORE the temporary daily gold rolls expired? Don’t they care enough to engage with the community now?

They did not care. That is blatantly obvious. How little this company cares for it's customers could not possibly be more obvious.

[Oxarhamar]

There's seriously not any other way to interpret it. They had 10 months. If they still need discussion after 10 months, then its not going to happen.

.

that is your interpretation

I'll wati to see what the producers letter has to say

[Assassination]

Didn’t they care enough to have a plan in place BEFORE the temporary daily gold rolls expired? Don’t they care enough to engage with the community now?

Um, no and no. :rolleyes:

[1Soulless1]

Then they have a double xp gold roll bonus this week. Good showing guys good showing. Great way to read the room.
I only do my weekly gold roll now a days. Haven't touched silver rolls since. I also don't buy shards and re-roll anymore when I got a crappy gold roll (less then 80). I don't chest reroll either. I stopped buying shards.
I'm sure they have some super whale who makes up for it I hope. I know I'm not the only one who's stopped buying shards.

[salmag]

That just means 6-12 more months before anything actually gets done. And that's assuming the internal "Discussions" don't come out to "its fine as is". They've had a year to discuss so sounds like that's all that's ever going to happen.


If that’s how you interpret it

That’s just how it goes here they don’t put out much until it’s close

I’d expect something more in the producer’s letter


that is your interpretation

I'll wait to see what the producers letter has to say

Unfortunately, Eantarus is 99.999% accurate in his interpretation.

And he is not the only one that feels that way. No comment except VIP is 'High Value' speaks volumes. The Producer's letter is fluff at this point.

Empty promises.

[Oxarhamar]

Unfortunately, Eantarus is 99.999% accurate in his interpretation.

And he is not the only one that feels that way. No comment except VIP is 'High Value' speaks volumes. The Producer's letter is fluff at this point.

Empty promises.

You can feel that way if you like but that is still just an opinion

I get why players may feel that way it’s not really accurate to the information that’s available

[Dandonk]

You can feel that way if you like but that is still just an opinion

I get why players may feel that way it’s not really accurate to the information that’s available

What did you see or hear, that I didn't?

What I heard from Cordovan was that VIP is good value, implying that no changes were coming.

In the 2021 Producer's Letter there was mention of "plans to give more value to VIPs", which turned out to be very little. Last year, there were again plans to do something. You'll have to forgive me if I don't hold out for any noticeable changes even if the 2023 Letter mentions more "plans". Based on past experiences, plans remain just that, with no actual actions taken.

[Captain_Wizbang]

You can feel that way if you like but that is still just an opinion

I get why players may feel that way it’s not really accurate to the information that’s available


It's an opinion shared by many.

[LightBear]

Unfortunately, Eantarus is 99.999% accurate in his interpretation.

And he is not the only one that feels that way. No comment except VIP is 'High Value' speaks volumes. The Producer's letter is fluff at this point.

Empty promises.

What do you mean at this point...

I think I arrived at that point back in 2006 when this game was released.

And to quote Marvin from THGTTG... "It was all downhill from there."

The thing is, if you keep firing up your improbability drive.
Eventually, you'll come to the conclusion that "Yes, she is the one for me."

[salmag]

What do you mean at this point...

I think I arrived at that point back in 2006 when this game was released.

And to quote Marvin from THGTTG... "It was all downhill from there."

The thing is, if you keep firing up your improbability drive.
Eventually, you'll come to the conclusion that "Yes, she is the one for me."

TRUE.

"...at this point" is definitely incorrect. I misspoke. I would say the "fluff" started around 2009.

[systemshaker1941]

I get why players may feel that way it’s not really accurate to the information that’s available

...It is completely accurate to the information that's available. All we have right now is that the devs think VIP is "high value" and they're not telling us anything else other than that they are "discussing it". Well clearly they've discussed it and agreed it doesn't need anything. Now we're just waiting on the producer's letter 6 months from now to confirm it.

[LightBear]

If that’s how you interpret it

That’s just how it goes here they don’t put out much until it’s close

I’d expect something more in the producer’s letter

Basically you're saying the same thing there.

The only slight forecast I've seen is when Sev mentioned "archetypes" about a YEAR before they were released.
Cordo quickly stepped up saying that's something not yet to be mentioned by saying something along the lines of "ahum" and "you mean something else as that is not in the game yet."
Followed by a quick change of topic.

Anyway, for the question of the OP where we got the idea as to why gold rolls were added.
It was NOT to give MORE value.
It was to EQUALIZE THE LOSS OF ACCESS TO ALL QUESTS, LASTLY SO AND AMPLIFIED BY INTRODUCING MINOR PACKS.

https://media.tenor.com/yEBGJW9mUnsAAAAC/full-metal-jacket-drill-instructor.gif

[systemshaker1941]

Anyway, for the question of the OP where we got the idea as to why gold rolls were added.
It was NOT to give MORE value.
It was to EQUALIZE THE LOSS OF ACCESS TO ALL QUESTS, LASTLY SO AND AMPLIFIED BY INTRODUCING MINOR PACKS.


Six of one, half a dozen of the other. You're not wrong, its just easier to say "more value" than explain your completely valid all-caps point.

[Altra]

Unfortunately, Eantarus is 99.999% accurate in his interpretation.

And he is not the only one that feels that way. No comment except VIP is 'High Value' speaks volumes. The Producer's letter is fluff at this point.

Empty promises.

No no no, I believe what you heard said was "Great value" (Write something here about that being Wal Mart's house brand)

[Eantarus]

No no no, I believe what you heard said was "Great value" (Write something here about that being Wal Mart's house brand)

Oh yes. That changes everything. He said. As sarcastically as humanly possible.

[salmag]

No no no, I believe what you heard said was "Great value" (Write something here about that being Wal Mart's house brand)

That makes it even WORSE.

*Wal Mart's house brand not withstanding.

[mbartol]

No no no, I believe what you heard said was "Great value" (Write something here about that being Wal Mart's house brand)

Oohhh! Maybe we’ll have to watch for falling prices.

As far as anyone saying that SSG won’t do anything, that’s certainly not going to be the case. The amount of angry and riled up people in this thread and others over the past few weeks has prompted them to at least put SOMETHING together. Unfortunately, as had been stated earlier, it is too late for many players. Now, that doesn’t mean hundreds of players will quit the game, but there will definitely be fewer people paying for VIP.

I’m not VIP very often (a little more than 3 years during the 9.5 years of playing), but I did sign up last February when they announced the daily gold rolls. I’ll go back to being premium, since I’ve already bought everything for my account before the free codes ever came out and they made additional races/classes FTP. I’ll keep playing DDO for as long as it lasts, but have no reason to spend any money (until the next expansion is released). I may consider subscribing again if SSG makes it worth my $99, but I see no reason to donate it as a charity.

[Eantarus]

Oohhh! Maybe we’ll have to watch for falling prices.
As far as anyone saying that SSG won’t do anything, that’s certainly not going to be the case. The amount of angry and riled up people in this thread and others over the past few weeks has prompted them to at least put SOMETHING together.

This seems highly unlikely. IF they planned to put "something" together they would have said as much. Instead, let's have a quick run-through of what's happened since the people have been riled up and angry:

-A dev said in a live stream they thought VIP was "A great value".
-They lit slip on Lama that they plan to sell "A year of daily gold roles" as a store item in the future.
-We're told they are "discussing" internally something they've had a year to talk about.

None of that sounds like anything is being done, other than to sell us something previously included in ViP.

[mbartol]

Well, they usually prefer to hold back information from the player base—I suppose they think it’s being mysterious or something—in order to make a big announcement. I truly believe that is the wrong way to operate, but then again, they tend to do a lot of things wrong in my opinion. Given how this is playing out, it’s especially the wrong choice now as players are getting increasingly frustrated.

They will have something to announce for VIP, but as has been said, it’ll likely be too little too late. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think it will be something to entice me to subscribe. As I said in my earlier post, premium works well for me.

[Eantarus]

I guess we can hope but most likely the next big announcement will be "We've discussed it internally and determined that VIP is fine as is. We will be removing the 10% speed boost in public areas and replacing it with a cosmetic mount."

Or something equally dumb.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Well, they usually prefer to hold back information from the player base—I suppose they think it’s being mysterious or something—in order to make a big announcement. I truly believe that is the wrong way to operate, but then again, they tend to do a lot of things wrong in my opinion. Given how this is playing out, it’s especially the wrong choice now as players are getting increasingly frustrated.

They will have something to announce for VIP, but as has been said, it’ll likely be too little too late. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think it will be something to entice me to subscribe. As I said in my earlier post, premium works well for me.



That has plagued this company since early Turbine days.

[Eantarus]

Its as if they have no concept of "hype".

[Oxarhamar]

...It is completely accurate to the information that's available. All we have right now is that the devs think VIP is "high value" and they're not telling us anything else other than that they are "discussing it". Well clearly they've discussed it and agreed it doesn't need anything. Now we're just waiting on the producer's letter 6 months from now to confirm it.

that's was't the information that was put out that's an assumption

Producers letter should be next month

[Oxarhamar]

That has plagued this company since early Turbine days.

indeed true just look at how close to HCL they announce it

[Oxarhamar]

Well, they usually prefer to hold back information from the player base—I suppose they think it’s being mysterious or something—in order to make a big announcement. I truly believe that is the wrong way to operate, but then again, they tend to do a lot of things wrong in my opinion. Given how this is playing out, it’s especially the wrong choice now as players are getting increasingly frustrated.

They will have something to announce for VIP, but as has been said, it’ll likely be too little too late. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think it will be something to entice me to subscribe. As I said in my earlier post, premium works well for me.

other than the gold rolls recent efforts to boost VIP have been bland

[Eantarus]

Producers letter should be next month

Yes its a good thing they always get that out on time. :rolleyes: (I nearly detached a retina eye-rolling so hard)

[Oxarhamar]

Yes its a good thing they always get that out on time. :rolleyes: (I nearly detached a retina eye-rolling so hard)

There is no hard schedule for the letter much like other things in DDO they will let you know when it's ready or possibly tease shortly before

It tends to be some time in Feb for the start of the year.

[systemshaker1941]

February is also coincidently when the anniversary event happens.

Pictured: this year's anniversary gift.

https://i.imgur.com/6a3sUKi.jpg

[Dandonk]

There is no hard schedule for the letter much like other things in DDO they will let you know when it's ready or possibly tease shortly before

It tends to be some time in Feb for the start of the year.

Well, now we got the producer's letter. Not one word about VIPs, but hey, at least we get a new mini-expansion so VIPs can once again pay for updates that used to be included in the VIP program.

I'm so glad SSG has told us just how much value they place on VIP: None. At all. Very insignificant players, perhaps? Uh, sorry, *payers. Anyway.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Well, now we got the producer's letter. Not one word about VIPs, but hey, at least we get a new mini-expansion so VIPs can once again pay for updates that used to be included in the VIP program.

I'm so glad SSG has told us just how much value they place on VIP: None. At all. Very insignificant players, perhaps? Uh, sorry, *payers. Anyway.


bye bye DDO

[mbartol]

February is also coincidently when the anniversary event happens.

Pictured: this year's anniversary gift.

https://i.imgur.com/6a3sUKi.jpg

Not sure about the anniversary gift, but it certainly captures the Producer’s Letter.

[Assassination]

Unbelievable.

[Valerianus]

Well, now we got the producer's letter. Not one word about VIPs, but hey, at least we get a new mini-expansion so VIPs can once again pay for updates that used to be included in the VIP program.

I'm so glad SSG has told us just how much value they place on VIP: None. At all. Very insignificant players, perhaps? Uh, sorry, *payers. Anyway.


you are wrong, don't you remember? after the whole mini-expansion rage, they told you that they were getting some shiny new tech in place for you at saltmarsh launch and you got a 2 dollar discount on your 20 dollar mini-expansion saltmarsh tax....well, given that vips even noticed...did they even noticed? don't you feel a vip for having a 2 dollars discount? 2 whole dollars! dude hope you got the most out of em and did not spent all of them in only one place.

[mbartol]

This seems highly unlikely. IF they planned to put "something" together they would have said as much. Instead, let's have a quick run-through of what's happened since the people have been riled up and angry:

-A dev said in a live stream they thought VIP was "A great value".
-They lit slip on Lama that they plan to sell "A year of daily gold roles" as a store item in the future.
-We're told they are "discussing" internally something they've had a year to talk about.

None of that sounds like anything is being done, other than to sell us something previously included in ViP.

It looks like my optimism was misplaced. The Producer’s Letter having no mention of VIP improvements is extremely disappointing. In fact, announcing another Mini Expansion even further devalues VIP.

[systemshaker1941]

Producers letter should be next month

Its here now and makes zero mention of VIP.

Going to admit we get nothing?

[salmag]

If that’s how you interpret it

That’s just how it goes here they don’t put out much until it’s close

I’d expect something more in the producer’s letter

I am curious.

Since the Producer's *cough, cough* letter is out, how is your "interpretation" now?

[ahpook]

It looks like my optimism was misplaced.
Yep.


The Producer’s Letter having no mention of VIP improvements is extremely disappointing. In fact, announcing another Mini Expansion even further devalues VIP.
You know I don't really mind if they don't want to do anything with VIP benefits. I am a big boy and can decide on whether it is worth my money and make a choice. But I really dislike that the producer was not willing to address this issue head on. To give a pep talk and not even mention the concerns that have been significant in the player base is so insulting. Ceding the floor to the upset masses does nothing to improve moral and adds even more negativity to these forums. It lets the forumites know that they are either too stupid to be provided the truth or sufficiently gullible that they don't need to bother trying. Either way, it is a bad way to treat customers.

[Eantarus]

It looks like my optimism was misplaced. The Producer’s Letter having no mention of VIP improvements is extremely disappointing. In fact, announcing another Mini Expansion even further devalues VIP.

Yeah even in my small, blackened heart I was rooting for you to be right. The letter stung even worse.

I had my expectations set as low as I possibly could, still I am disappointed.

[systemshaker1941]

Yeah even in my small, blackened heart I was rooting for you to be right. The letter stung even worse.

I had my expectations set as low as I possibly could, still I am disappointed.

https://i.imgflip.com/49amyz.jpg

[Aelonwy]

I actually expected something about VIP in the Producer's letter, especially as it was Tolero that acknowledged previously that VIP value had decreased. I noticed a third of the new letter was about last year... it felt like fluff because they had so little to say for this year. I remember (a long time ago) writing term papers on a deadline with a minimum word limit and having to add some extra adjectives or a few sentences that said the same thing rephrased to meet the requirements. This read similarly. Just not enough substance.

It really does feel like they're silent on the VIP topic because they are just hoping people get despondent, lower their expectations and stop asking.

[systemshaker1941]

I actually expected something about VIP in the Producer's letter, especially as it was Tolero that acknowledged previously that VIP value had decreased. I noticed a third of the new letter was about last year... it felt like fluff because they had so little to say for this year. I remember (a long time ago) writing term papers on a deadline with a minimum word limit and having to add some extra adjectives or a few sentences that said the same thing rephrased to meet the requirements. This read similarly. Just not enough substance.

On the plus side, now we know why we had to write so many term papers in school. It was practice for this.



It really does feel like they're silent on the VIP topic because they are just hoping people get despondent, lower their expectations and stop asking.

Its pretty obvious that's the objective at this point. Really no other way to interpret it.

[Oxarhamar]

Its here now and makes zero mention of VIP.

Going to admit we get nothing?

I wouldn't call it Nothing there's at least some content that VIP will have to purchase

[systemshaker1941]

I wouldn't call it Nothing there's at least some content that VIP will have to purchase

I applaud your ability to grasp at straws.

[Oxarhamar]

I am curious.

Since the Producer's *cough, cough* letter is out, how is your "interpretation" now?

Considering it was discussed in a video instead that's on par for how information is handled

[ShotCaller]

It really does feel like they're silent on the VIP topic because they are just hoping people get despondent, lower their expectations and stop asking.

Direct hit.

[Dandonk]

I wouldn't call it Nothing there's at least some content that VIP will have to purchase

In the twitch thing we got some talk about an idea that they themselves said might not work (so no guarantees on if it will be at all), and few details on it. And no timeline at all.

While that's more than nothing, it's only just barely. After nearly a year. Really?

But you're right, as VIPs we do get to pay for a rebranded normal Update, in the form of a "mini-expansion". So... yay, I guess? We get shafted again, and get fluffy talk about something that might or might not happen, at some unspecified point in the future in return.

[systemshaker1941]

In the twitch thing we got some talk about an idea that they themselves said might not work (so no guarantees on if it will be at all), and few details on it. And no timeline at all.

While that's more than nothing, it's only just barely. After nearly a year. Really?

But you're right, as VIPs we do get to pay for a rebranded normal Update, in the form of a "mini-expansion". So... yay, I guess? We get shafted again, and get fluffy talk about something that might or might not happen, at some unspecified point in the future in return.

Its a freaking ripoff.

And they can't even be bothered to talk about it on the discussion forum. Has to be on a video so no one can quote them or screen-shot them.

They need to do another interim fix. Whether its turning on gold roles, increasing VIP XP Bonus, or even just handing out a VIP-exclusive cosmetic. They have got to do SOMETHING besides some vague notion that maybe someday they'll do something.

[Aelonwy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUG5VrZNYMc

Just to try to keep information together, this is the Fridays@4 vid with the Ask Sev interview. Kindly they discuss the VIP issue fairly close to the beginning, first 15 mins or so. They may return to it in the course of the video but I got distracted after awhile.

Anyone that wants to type up a transcription of exactly what was said (about VIP) is welcome to do so.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Just to try to keep information together, this is the Fridays@4 vid with the Ask Sev interview. Kindly they discuss the VIP issue fairly close to the beginning, first 15 mins or so. They may return to it in the course of the video but I got distracted after awhile.

Anyone that wants to type up a transcription of exactly what was said (about VIP) is welcome to do so.

https://media.giphy.com/media/z0lKWeWjBcITHhoCgd/giphy.gif

comments from players in chat.....

https://media.giphy.com/media/4zz7tq5m4Qt19e9XlL/giphy.gif


And here we are Ael. Does this surprise you?

[Aelonwy]

And here we are Ael. Does this surprise you?

Eh. *shrugs* Since we don't know any details whatsoever, its difficult to have any feelings about it except that they had a year to think of and begin implementing something and all we've heard is "well maybe they have something but maybe not we'll have to see if it works out... sometime in the future." *paraphrased of course*

I don't know its almost like a "please stop complaining an unspecified something is possibly being worked on." (Please read that in Shatner-esque pause speech)

[Dandonk]

I don't know its almost like a "please stop complaining an unspecified something is possibly being worked on." (Please read that in Shatner-esque pause speech)

Yep, that's precisely it.

After a year, that's all they have. I wonder how many years it'll take to actually implement something. Should we start a wager? People can put money on which quarter... hmm, or year.... or decade something will arrive.

Though I suppose most will put the money on "never".

[Captain_Wizbang]

Eh. *shrugs* all we've heard is "well maybe they have something but maybe not we'll have to see if it works out... sometime in the future."

It's not a good look for them. (sadly)

[Eantarus]

Though I suppose most will put the money on "never".

Smart money is on never. The complete lack of meaningful communication indicates they are hoping this will blow over.

[Assassination]

Smart money is on never. The complete lack of meaningful communication indicates they are hoping this will blow over.

+1