IoD and Saltmarsh wilderness designer, I HATE YOU!

[Drunkendex]

Seriously?

tab targeting mobs before you run up to them, jump on their head, type /dance, they do their little reaction, and then maybe, just MAYBE you'll be able to tab target them?

Only reasonable explanation would be that you think people farmed too good XP/min in wildernes zones... (yeah, unless something changed in last 2 years, only Orchard and Grim Disturbance were considered GG XP/min)

As someone who mains archer ranger and loves roaming wilderness areas, it's an insult to have to mouselook to hit mobs, and over half of them ignore damage before you run up to them to boop them on the nose.

This is mess on level of Amber temple ruining...

Feels good to rant a bit.

[Baahb3]

100% agree

I have no idea why or who signed off on this but they need to drawn and quartered.

In all honesty, if this is the direction of new wilderness areas, just stop making them. They are NOT fun in this design.

[Wizard1406]

Yeah it's unfortunate that enemies are only active and are targetable once you get close to them. But I heard the developers HAD to do this, so the instances don't cause extra lag. Better to have less fun wilderness than to add to the server lag. Sadly DDO has this weak engine that can't really handle big zones and lots of active mobs at once.

[Kutalp]

Just to mention it as humbly as possible.


Mounts and all the fancy visuals also cause serious latency in the game. Especially heavier at the highly populated instances.

[Drunkendex]

Yeah it's unfortunate that enemies are only active and are targetable once you get close to them. But I heard the developers HAD to do this, so the instances don't cause extra lag. Better to have less fun wilderness than to add to the server lag. Sadly DDO has this weak engine that can't really handle big zones and lots of active mobs at once.

If that's reason for this... trolling, then they could have separated wilderness areas into multiple zones, like Subterrenae.

[TedSandyman]

People complain about the lack of mobs in areas like the Kings Forest. I think these new areas were an attempt to pack more mobs in, but keep them less active so you didn't get immediate red alerts.

It didn't work. It is dangerous to run to a quest with a party in these new areas.

It almost immediately goes red and one hit can cause a slowing of your movement and death.

And if you are farming the outdoor areas, especially as a ranged, you can't because you have to get on top of them to "activate" them.

The get close to activate isn't new. There are lions in Cerulean Hills and the Vale that do the same and these are some of the oldest parts of the game. I think the devs just took the idea to a new level with these new areas.

I hope they were simply trying out this new way of setting up outdoor areas and I hope they realize it isn't working.

[Xgya]

We were told in no uncertain terms that mob pathing was one of the biggest sources of server load.

Reducing the amount of pathing the mobs do is crucial to reducing potential lag.

That means less mobs active/targetable at once.

Want to see areas where this ISN'T done? Go to Wheloon or Thunderholme. If you've ever run those areas in groups, you have seen the freeze lag. THolme is the bigger culprit because it can fit a bigger group to activate even more mobs at once.
That level of instance lag MUST affect the server in some way.

Mobs not being active until you get near enough to smell their breath is the cost we have to bear with for now.

[ahpook]

We were told in no uncertain terms that mob pathing was one of the biggest sources of server load.

Reducing the amount of pathing the mobs do is crucial to reducing potential lag.

That means less mobs active/targetable at once.
...

Mobs not being active until you get near enough to smell their breath is the cost we have to bear with for now.

Yeah but their solutions are all band-aids to the problem which is why we keep getting solutions we hate. They really need to go back and rework the pathing logic to get this train back on the tracks.

For example, mobs should have decision on whether to pursue (especially in wilderness). Mobs that move slower than you, pathing to follow you only to leash 20 seconds later is a waste of cpu.

And some mobs shouldn't path but only follow your trail and thus not need to calculate a path. The cpu cycles wasted on dumb mobs like oozes is far more "thought process" than such mobs actually have.

[Strider1963]

People complain about the lack of mobs in areas like the Kings Forest. I think these new areas were an attempt to pack more mobs in, but keep them less active so you didn't get immediate red alerts.

It didn't work. It is dangerous to run to a quest with a party in these new areas.

It almost immediately goes red and one hit can cause a slowing of your movement and death.

And if you are farming the outdoor areas, especially as a ranged, you can't because you have to get on top of them to "activate" them.

The get close to activate isn't new. There are lions in Cerulean Hills and the Vale that do the same and these are some of the oldest parts of the game. I think the devs just took the idea to a new level with these new areas.

I hope they were simply trying out this new way of setting up outdoor areas and I hope they realize it isn't working.

This is EXACTLY why we need to be able to port directly to the quests ala Ravenloft and Sharn. Let the people who want to do slayers do them, and the people who dont want to do slayers simply direct port to the quest.
Nothing more annoying than riding to a quest and getting a red alert, then getting knocked of the horse and have to fight a bunch of stuff. It just slows you down.

[Ereshkigal]

Seriously?

tab targeting mobs before you run up to them, jump on their head, type /dance, they do their little reaction, and then maybe, just MAYBE you'll be able to tab target them?

Only reasonable explanation would be that you think people farmed too good XP/min in wildernes zones... (yeah, unless something changed in last 2 years, only Orchard and Grim Disturbance were considered GG XP/min)

As someone who mains archer ranger and loves roaming wilderness areas, it's an insult to have to mouselook to hit mobs, and over half of them ignore damage before you run up to them to boop them on the nose.

This is mess on level of Amber temple ruining...

Feels good to rant a bit.

I also hate the design, and I try to avoid them both as a result.

If allowed to choose, I'd gladly accept the lag to retain the old mechanic.

[ahpook]

This is EXACTLY why we need to be able to port directly to the quests ala Ravenloft and Sharn. Let the people who want to do slayers do them, and the people who dont want to do slayers simply direct port to the quest.
Nothing more annoying than riding to a quest and getting a red alert, then getting knocked of the horse and have to fight a bunch of stuff. It just slows you down.

Yes. And on repeats you can re-enter the quest by talking directly to the quest giver. Why spin up an explorer area that the character is immediately going to leave?

[Ereshkigal]

This is EXACTLY why we need to be able to port directly to the quests ala Ravenloft and Sharn. Let the people who want to do slayers do them, and the people who dont want to do slayers simply direct port to the quest.
Nothing more annoying than riding to a quest and getting a red alert, then getting knocked of the horse and have to fight a bunch of stuff. It just slows you down.

Ah, Maybe it's just nostalgia, but I really think being able to port directly to quests would be a big loss. I would not like to see this change.

I'd much rather they make those areas work more smoothly and keep the running intact.

[Phatlewts]

This is a total development idea fail. Hey, let's make a huge wilderness area for fantastic immersion, the players will love it! Oh, but let's just make the actual game play there super lame and unrealistic where you wander in the vast wilderness and stumble upon inactive bots. then you walk up, wait a minute for them to wake up and fight them. Super immersive experience.

[LazarusPossum]

Seriously?

...and over half of them ignore damage before you run up to them to boop them on the nose

This. Running through Sharn quests with my stick-fighting acrobat and just swinging for at least four or five seconds (I counted) before they become active. I used to be able to use my clickies right off the bat, but I've been having to restrain myself so they're not in cooldown when the mob finally becomes active.

[Valerianus]

we asked for ravenloft-like guides for such a long time, or at least some fast travel, and we got it with isle of dread. now we see it comes anyway with downsides, now not only players who asked for teleport at quest are dissatisfied, also players who love wild areas are dissatisfied. so now instead of one crippled feature, we have two crippled features. yay.

i can't help myself, i think that such a U-turn happened when mounts were released. why and who and how was possible to think that the only way to go was the old turbine way, punish and inconvenience the players, to make the new thing shine? anything related to movement, it sells by itself. you just needed to consider the older areas and the public areas, we would have jumped on mounts just to move faster in them, why did you felt the need to ruin the new content?

cause gargantuan tech debt, come on it is crystal clear, those teleport-to-quest features have to be (should have been since after ravenloft) the default. seriously there's nothing to discuss imho.

[Aelonwy]

This is EXACTLY why we need to be able to port directly to the quests ala Ravenloft and Sharn. Let the people who want to do slayers do them, and the people who dont want to do slayers simply direct port to the quest.
Nothing more annoying than riding to a quest and getting a red alert, then getting knocked of the horse and have to fight a bunch of stuff. It just slows you down.

Agreed.



Ah, Maybe it's just nostalgia, but I really think being able to port directly to quests would be a big loss. I would not like to see this change.

I'd much rather they make those areas work more smoothly and keep the running intact.

But you would still have that choice. I have NEVER understood this argument. You would rather the choice to teleport be taken away rather than make the choice for yourself to run up to the quest entrance if you want?

I love Wilderness zones and if I'm smelling the roses I will even make my meandering way to the quests in Ravenloft at times however if I'm with a group trying to get things done I will happily teleport to stay with them. Removing the choice of teleports just aggravates players of a particular play style and wastes store pots of various types for such players which may be the real goal.

[droid327]

we asked for ravenloft-like guides for such a long time, or at least some fast travel, and we got it with isle of dread. now we see it comes anyway with downsides, now not only players who asked for teleport at quest are dissatisfied, also players who love wild areas are dissatisfied. so now instead of one crippled feature, we have two crippled features. yay.



I think IoD does it pretty well. Fast travel that's unlockable after you do the initial run-out

I might have made it tied to discovering the location itself as opposed to completing quests (like Stormhorns waypoints), but other than that its a good system. Makes it far more convenient to access quests, but doesnt completely divorce questing from wilderness zones

[Valerianus]

I think IoD does it pretty well. Fast travel that's unlockable after you do the initial run-out

I might have made it tied to discovering the location itself as opposed to completing quests (like Stormhorns waypoints), but other than that its a good system. Makes it far more convenient to access quests, but doesnt completely divorce questing from wilderness zones



i agree.

but if the price is to ruin the wilderness areas, for those who enjoy them, then just enable teleport to quest instead of putting in place useless ways to lower alert\detection\pathing that will happen anyway and leave normally functional wild for those that want to explore, do kills and rares and stuff.

[Wizard1406]

This is EXACTLY why we need to be able to port directly to the quests ala Ravenloft and Sharn. Let the people who want to do slayers do them, and the people who dont want to do slayers simply direct port to the quest.
Nothing more annoying than riding to a quest and getting a red alert, then getting knocked of the horse and have to fight a bunch of stuff. It just slows you down.

Yep. Making mobs active in wildernesses only adds to lag and doesn't really add anything (mobs on "normal" mode wilderness are pushovers for most players; some epic quests even have lowbie heroic wilderness zones). If you want full immersion you can still ride there instead. But far less people going that route and most people directly porting there as they only want to play the quests will lower server lag, wich is always a good thing.


Yes. And on repeats you can re-enter the quest by talking directly to the quest giver. Why spin up an explorer area that the character is immediately going to leave?
Good idea. AFAIK zones stay open for 5 minutes after people leaving them, so that's a pointlessly created instance.

[Drunkendex]

Personally I consider Barovia best wilderness zone.
Both in mob trigger (TBH it would benefit from lower, yes lower, mob density) and reaching quests.



It should have been premise on which future wilderness zone were based on.

[Wizard1406]

I think IoD does it pretty well. Fast travel that's unlockable after you do the initial run-out

I might have made it tied to discovering the location itself as opposed to completing quests (like Stormhorns waypoints), but other than that its a good system. Makes it far more convenient to access quests, but doesnt completely divorce questing from wilderness zones

If that persisted through TR it would be a good system, but it doesn't.

[droid327]

If that persisted through TR it would be a good system, but it doesn't.

Yeah that would be a nice tweak to the system, especially for non-endgame Wilderness Zones since you're likely to only do them once per life anyway, making unlocks pointless


i agree.

but if the price is to ruin the wilderness areas, for those who enjoy them, then just enable teleport to quest instead of putting in place useless ways to lower alert\detection\pathing that will happen anyway and leave normally functional wild for those that want to explore, do kills and rares and stuff.

I dont think its just a question of lag reduction, though. I think its also trying to even the playing field for melee vs range, as far as doing slayers. Compare to Orchard, or running down from Amber Temple in Barovia, where a ranged char can basically just run around one-shotting packs of mobs without ever breaking stride, and racking up kills way faster than a melee that has to actually run from pack to pack.

Now you'd expect that to mean they'd be able to increase mob density so that slayers are faster for everyone who's actually doing slayers - and so far we havent really seen that in SM or IoD - but the mechanic is there to allow it

[Ereshkigal]

Agreed.




But you would still have that choice. I have NEVER understood this argument. You would rather the choice to teleport be taken away rather than make the choice for yourself to run up to the quest entrance if you want?

I love Wilderness zones and if I'm smelling the roses I will even make my meandering way to the quests in Ravenloft at times however if I'm with a group trying to get things done I will happily teleport to stay with them. Removing the choice of teleports just aggravates players of a particular play style and wastes store pots of various types for such players which may be the real goal.

Yeah, for the same reason I don't want a list of quest givers in public areas that I can teleport to instead of running to. I think it's important that there's a world that you must travel through in order to get places. Even if you give people the option of still running instead of teleporting, many new players will never do it and miss out on the world - which takes something away from ddo in my opinion.

Now, I suppose if they made sure all wilderness areas had good teleporters, and in addition to being able to use them to teleport after you've walked there once, if they added a past life feat that allowed these teleporters to be used without first running there once you've completed your first TR ( and maybe a favor unlock for those players that never intend to TR ) then I would support it more.

[ahpook]

... I think it's important that there's a world that you must travel through in order to get places. Even if you give people the option of still running instead of teleporting, many new players will never do it and miss out on the world - which takes something away from ddo in my opinion.


I used to think the same thing and then I thought why should they be enforcing the way I want it to play out over others preferences.

As I thought about it, I realized it is better to use carrots rather than sticks. Have good stories and good wilderness areas that encourage people to play through the story. Many players don't mind running to the quests if there is reward for the effort. Perhaps some kind of bonus for playing it that way (explorers and slayers provide a bit of that). If they use the stick method, there will always be exceptions (players joining late, crashes, etc) that would benefit from not locking down to an enforced model.

Players doing forced marches through wildernesses do not make them appreciate the world building. Players invis'ing and mounting up to get to the quest doesn't make the run valuable. It just irritates them. If you build it well people will come. It is harder work for the devs but I think it will pay off with happier players. Those that want stories are getting better ones. Those that want to skip and get to it are also happy.

[Drekisen]

Wow, been saying it for what seems like forever now, make it xp on each kill in wilderness areas.

At least you will get immediate gain, I think this is another reason people dislike wilderness areas. Game has enough grind, make the wilderness areas an adventure, not a quest. BTW, remove the slayer cap too, that way when you actually want to complete a slayer area and you are missing those 1-2 rares that refuse to spawn, you can still get xp on the way to them.

Seriously, what's the big deal?

[Eantarus]

Would definitely be way better if you got XP-per-kill instead of at ridiculously separated tiers.

Also teleports requiring unlocks are completely useless. I've literally never used one, because I only go out to the quest once before TR. Its just another example of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing. Like SSG design quests with no clue how players are actually playing.

[MaeveTuohy]

I have not experienced this at all.

Love the IoD wilderness.

It's like your talking about a different place.

[Eantarus]

I have not experienced this at all.

Love the IoD wilderness.

It's like your talking about a different place.

Are you playing ranged or melee?

[thegreatcthulhu]

The monster loading in these areas annoys me a bit, but it isn't the biggest problem that I have with the new areas. Well... really just one of them. I hope Isle of Dread's music is not an indication of future expansions soundtracks. I didn't really enjoy the "Classic Iconic Overused Legendary Mythic Supernatural King Kong Lizard Fight Island of The Mysterious Copy Pasta Temple Generic Moving Picture Cinematic Movie" songs. It just felt... uninspiring after what I thought was a fun, but heroic take on sea-side music in Salt Marsh.

[SoVeryBelgian]

Why have high draw distance and the ability to crossmap with handy headshots ifn the only way to engage as ranged is to be in the Monsters armpit in order to accost them? I'M SQUISHY!


But yeah, the ultimate beast in DDO remains the dreaded Lag Monster... how will we ever overcome this CRInfinite threat?

[Oxarhamar]

If that persisted through TR it would be a good system, but it doesn't.

Thanks you +1

By the time teleportation is unlocked it’s not needed then reset

A lot of the systems are designed for a game where you sit at cap and farm til cap is raised Those systems don’t mesh with Reincarnation

[Oxarhamar]

Wow, been saying it for what seems like forever now, make it xp on each kill in wilderness areas.

At least you will get immediate gain, I think this is another reason people dislike wilderness areas. Game has enough grind, make the wilderness areas an adventure, not a quest. BTW, remove the slayer cap too, that way when you actually want to complete a slayer area and you are missing those 1-2 rares that refuse to spawn, you can still get xp on the way to them.

Seriously, what's the big deal?

Take the total do given for each tier & division easy enough

Also if we didn’t have to run thro to get to quests ala teleport then it wouldn’t be a lag issue because only slay slay would enter slayer

[Seph1roth5]

I hate saltmarsh as well. The whole reasoning is stupid too, because there's plenty of wildernesses that don't behave that way and aren't laggy messes. If it were really an issue wouldn't they go back and make all those sucktastic as well? Really seems more that they just want to slow down wilderness XP.

My group only runs a few (and those've been nerfed mobsize), but there are people that run tons of epic slayers. And it seems they just don't like that. Remember when feywild came out and had a cap of 1500?

[MaeveTuohy]

Are you playing ranged or melee?

Played all kinds since it was released.

Currently one caster and one monk.

I have experiences no problems in IoD, except for the odd behaviour of the ceolophysis.

[Drunkendex]

Played all kinds since it was released.

Currently one caster and one monk.

I have experiences no problems in IoD, except for the odd behaviour of the ceolophysis.


So you're claiming you can tab target mobs in IOD wilderness from far away without first runnng up to them in melee range to trigger them.

[Jomee]

Ah, Maybe it's just nostalgia, but I really think being able to port directly to quests would be a big loss. I would not like to see this change.

I'd much rather they make those areas work more smoothly and keep the running intact.

If they adopted the raven loft style teleport then those who wanted to "run" could still choose to do so.

[MaeveTuohy]

So you're claiming you can tab target mobs in IOD wilderness from far away without first runnng up to them in melee range to trigger them.

No.

I am claiming it is a great wilderness area (my second favourite, as it happens) and that I really enjoy running around in it.

I am claiming I don't experience aggro issues riding through it to get to a quest.

Though since you ask, my experience is that most of the mobs are targetable when I get to near-melee range. Some require you to actually hit them (the large triceratops bulls, for example) while other activate well out of melee range (the griffons, for example).

That's my experience, and it seems very foreign to the hard core ranting I have seen in this thread. Lucky me, I guess.

[Eantarus]

If they adopted the raven loft style teleport then those who wanted to "run" could still choose to do so.

This not only needs to become 100% standard on all new content going forward but retroactively added to all previous content. Single best QOL in the entire game and easily 50% of why Ravenloft is still so beloved compared to other content.

[Eantarus]

Though since you ask, my experience is that most of the mobs are targetable when I get to near-melee range. Some require you to actually hit them (the large triceratops bulls, for example) while other activate well out of melee range (the griffons, for example).


So in other words you're seeing exactly the behavior Drunk is talking about, but because you have some weird super-human tolerance for poor game design, that means everyone else is wrong?

Yeah. That sounds reasonable.

/Sarcasm

[Drekisen]

Take the total do given for each tier & division easy enough

Also if we didn’t have to run thro to get to quests ala teleport then it wouldn’t be a lag issue because only slay slay would enter slayer

Yeah I totally agree, I love slayer areas, but really, not being able to directly port when you just want to do the quest wastes both slayer pot timer and xp pot timer, and guild renown as well!

[erethizon]

Personally I consider Barovia best wilderness zone.
Both in mob trigger (TBH it would benefit from lower, yes lower, mob density) and reaching quests.



It should have been premise on which future wilderness zone were based on.

Agreed. The ability to teleport directly to quests was awesome. There is no point in making us cause server lag by running through wilderness zones when all we want to do is quest. Let people that want to use the wilderness zones use them, while people that just want to quest can teleport to quests.

[salmag]

I agree with most everyone here. It is a stupid mechanic for the mobs to activate only when you are right on top of them. While it is good for melee, if you are ranged it is not good. If they were concerned about lag reduction, reduce the mob density a little.

As for teleports, the Tabaxi teleport area is an example of how the Wilderness zone teleport system should work. Find the location, you can teleport there. The rest of IOD not so much. The whole "finish the quest and you can teleport to a set location" dynamic is dumb.

IMO, a prime example of how a Wilderness area should work is Gianthold (and Stormhorns to a lesser degree -Stormhorns needs one or two more locations). Ravenloft would be my third choice. I like running the explorer areas first (especially when there is no one to group with) but when I want to run quests, I should be able to teleport close to them.

[erethizon]

I agree with most everyone here. It is a stupid mechanic for the mobs to activate only when you are right on top of them. While it is good for melee, if you are ranged it is not good. If they were concerned about lag reduction, reduce the mob density a little.

As for teleports, the Tabaxi teleport area is an example of how the Wilderness zone teleport system should work. Find the location, you can teleport there. The rest of IOD not so much. The whole "finish the quest and you can teleport to a set location" dynamic is dumb.

IMO, a prime example of how a Wilderness area should work is Gianthold (and Stormhorns to a lesser degree -Stormhorns needs one or two more locations). Ravenloft would be my third choice. I like running the explorer areas first (especially when there is no one to group with) but when I want to run quests, I should be able to teleport close to them.

My main problem with Gianthold is that I only enter the wilderness area once per life and that is when I am running the 10 quests. Thus, I can never use the teleporters because by the time I find them I am already in the area to run the 3 quests there and never return. Ravenloft is the only one they got right. I can explore when I want to explore, and I can immediately get to the quest when I'm with a questing group.

[GramercyRiff]

This is dumb for sure, but it's among the least of this game's very long list of things that make it unplayable.

[Drunkendex]

I agree with most everyone here. It is a stupid mechanic for the mobs to activate only when you are right on top of them. While it is good for melee, if you are ranged it is not good. If they were concerned about lag reduction, reduce the mob density a little.


I tried running IoD wilderness on my barb and it's MUCH MUCH more enjoyable experience.

Makes me super bitter that SSG AGAIN shafted archers (bow pass is a joke, don't know about cap, but leveling is worse).

And I noticed that mob density in IoD wild is off the charts, maybe most dense (mob wise) wilderness zone...

Seriously , SSG's lag fight is like making appendicitis operation through patients rectum, operation will succeed but patient wont be happy about method...

but SSG likes making fixes that hurt players more than issue they were fixing... (*koff* Amber temple *koff*)

[MaeveTuohy]

So in other words you're seeing exactly the behavior Drunk is talking about, but because you have some weird super-human tolerance for poor game design, that means everyone else is wrong?

Yeah. That sounds reasonable.

/Sarcasm

The tone of this was really unnecessary.

I said I like it. I like it. You don't. Not trying to change anyone's opinion. I was just expressing my surprise at all the hate for something I enjoy.

Take care.

[capsela]

This is dumb for sure, but it's among the least of this game's very long list of things that make it unplayable.

But, why would they get it right with ravenloft?

SSG considers Ravenloft a mistake. Sad...