When Memnir quits it's time to admit things are serious SSG

[Phatlewts]

I am not even sure how to wrap my head around Memnir unistalling DDO. I am not sure when SSG started sowing the wind, could it be too many HC seasons, or the endless nerf bats or or or... But it seems like the whirlwind is upon us.

[Eme]

the nerfs for me. Combat is bland and lacks the dynamics i loved so much on my monk. I keep trying to give it chances, but I get bored and frustrated ever so quickly.
Passive over active skills just isn't a draw.
The development direction has lost all my will of ' I don't mind paying for this or that, I like this', but no more.

Last week I was clearing out my emails, and I found an email with my monk build, when 20 was cap with the old destiny system that a player had asked me to email him as he wanted to try a monk, looking at it my monk was more fun and better at max level 20, back then-ish, than at 32 and now, and I pined to be back there with the game.
Would rather have unplayable lag and the old destiny system and feats, than the new system and no lag, I really find it that despressing.
/sadface

[Eantarus]

Player retention is apparently a foreign concept to SSG.

[Arkat]

Sorry to see Memnir go. :(

We saw eye-to-eye on many things.

[droid327]

To be fair, I think I read he stopped actually playing a while ago, and just lurked the forums mostly...so its probably not a single thing as much as it was just a long time coming

But yeah, the string of problematic releases recently has eroded the faith of a lot of the playerbase. Not only did it harm the game's playability in the short term for many, but it also wasted a lot of development time that could have been spent improving and maintaining the game, instead of just cleaning up messes.

I'm hoping the upcoming U58 dev cycle takes some steps to earn back that lost trust: more transparency in the development process, listening more to players on Lama instead of just railroading things through, and taking the time to make sure the product that's delivered is one they're proud of.

[Phatlewts]

listening more to players on Lama instead of just railroading things through, and taking the time to make sure the product that's delivered is one they're proud of.

There is another problems, Lama isn't for feedback, it's just a quick larger scale test of the code to be sure nothing is completely broken, and we know how well that has worked. The Devs need pre pre pre Lama releases with real opportunity for feedback, not the current show and go lama.

[Loromir]

I am not even sure how to wrap my head around Memnir unistalling DDO. I am not sure when SSG started sowing the wind, could it be too many HC seasons, or the endless nerf bats or or or... But it seems like the whirlwind is upon us.

If I recall...this is not the first time he's quit.

[MistaMagic]

Uninstalling DDO does not mean quitting the game as at any time you can re-install the game and all will be as it was when you left. Now deleting all your toons is a different story although you can ask for them to be un-deleted

[mpetrarca]

Yes all the nerfing is the number one reason I took a 2 year break from the game, and wonder why I came back. SSG seems set on making this a solo game and D&D is a group game, the concept of the Party is a core component to the game. SSG does not know D&D or gaming, just look at Cordovan and Severlin's reaction to people capping thier Reaper trees, both of them come across as hiding how appalled they are that players are capped. Gamers see a cap as a goal, and they will focus on it till it is done. The really sad part is that DDO should be the easiest MMORPG to make, the game mechanics are already documented in the version 3.5 rule books and quest don't even need to be dreamed up since there is already tons of quest written like Ravenloft, Isle of Dread....

[LightBear]

I am not even sure how to wrap my head around Memnir unistalling DDO. I am not sure when SSG started sowing the wind, could it be too many HC seasons, or the endless nerf bats or or or... But it seems like the whirlwind is upon us.

In the past I have uninstalled DDO.


Tho it was because the game not starting anymore and I had to reinstall right after.


What to soon?

[Eantarus]

The really sad part is that DDO should be the easiest MMORPG to make, the game mechanics are already documented in the version 3.5 rule books and quest don't even need to be dreamed up since there is already tons of quest written like Ravenloft, Isle of Dread....

Add in the containerized nature of the game that makes building out new areas very easy and self-contained. I was kind of surprised when Grip of the Hidden Hand dropped and added a new airship instead of using one of the existing doorways on the clifftop tower district.

That being said... all the xpacs save for Ravenloft seemed to be built around future expansion in mind(in fact even Stormreach still has a lot of space left over) yet each new xpac or quest pack just tends to add a new entrance, or a crowd of NPCs. Why do they never use the future-proofing they created?

[Memnir]

To be fair, I think I read he stopped actually playing a while ago, and just lurked the forums mostly...so its probably not a single thing as much as it was just a long time comingA while being about a month. And yeah, it was the culmination of a what I perceive to be missteps by SSG. I stopped logging in when I cancelled my VIP because I no longer thought SSG was deserving of my time or money.
If I recall...this is not the first time he's quit.Yes, I've quit before - but this is the first time I've uninstalled the game since 2005. I've taken time off, either to cool off or until my interest in the game came back.

I never had the urge to outright purge DDO from my hard drive until now. This was my burning of the bridge. I know there are some forum pundits who will believe I will just reinstall before too long. I can assure you that unless the laundry list of problems I have with SSG changes - that bridge will remain ashes in the wind. It took me 17 years of near-constant play before I uninstalled. I did not do it on a whim or without what I see as just cause.


Please don't speculate on why I uninstalled and have consigned DDO to the Recycling Bin of History (unless there are some fundamental changes wrought). Just ask me. I won't be overly specific unless it's in a PM, because I know that often times my phrasing when I'm being honest doesn't mesh well with public-facing post moderation. That's a big reason why I changed my posting habits to mostly sticking to reaction .gifs and memes.


As always, I speak only for myself. If your mileage varies, good for you. Honestly - I'm happy you are still playing and enjoying. I hope you never get to this point as I have. The severing of any long-term relationship is hard, and this is no different. DDO has been an everyday factor in my life since the closed beta. It hurts to stop playing - but I got to the point where it hurt more to keep doing so.

[ahpook]

Add in the containerized nature of the game that makes building out new areas very easy and self-contained. I was kind of surprised when Grip of the Hidden Hand dropped and added a new airship instead of using one of the existing doorways on the clifftop tower district.

That being said... all the xpacs save for Ravenloft seemed to be built around future expansion in mind(in fact even Stormreach still has a lot of space left over) yet each new xpac or quest pack just tends to add a new entrance, or a crowd of NPCs. Why do they never use the future-proofing they created?

Since you brought it up....

That airship irritated me as it seemed such a lazy way to add the quest area. Tons of area to make sharn seem more like a city but instead they just add a taxi. Its like the devs do not have a holistic view of their world. The hut from beyond is another example where something is dropped in to a city (do you really think the 12/coinlords would allow a random building to be dropped in the harbor of the city?) without much thought. And then they stick the prequest for IOD inside the hut and the access to the actual quests on a pier? ...

/rant

[MistaMagic]

A while being about a month. And yeah, it was the culmination of a what I perceive to be missteps by SSG. I stopped logging in when I cancelled my VIP because I no longer thought SSG was deserving of my money.Yes, I've quit before - but this is the first time I've uninstalled the game since 2005. I've taken time off, either to cool off or until my interest in the game came back.

I never had the urge to outright purge DDO from my hard drive until now. This was my burning of the bridge. I know there are some forum pundits who will believe I will just reinstall before too long. I can assure you that unless the laundry list of problems I have with SSG changes - that bridge will remain ashes in the wind. It took me 17 years of near-constant play before I uninstalled. I did not do it on a whim or without what I see as just cause.


Please don't speculate on why I uninstalled and have consigned DDO to the Recycling Bin of History (unless there are some fundamental changes wrought). Just ask me. I won't be overly specific unless it's in a PM, because I know that often times my phrasing when I'm being honest doesn't mesh well with public-facing post moderation. That's a big reason why I changed my posting habits to mostly sticking to reaction .gifs and memes.


As always, I speak only for myself. If your mileage varies, good for you. Honestly - I'm happy you are still playing and enjoying. I hope you never get to this point as I have. The severing of any long-term relationship is hard, and this is no different. DDO has been an everyday factor in my life since the closed beta. It hurts to stop playing - but I got to the point where it hurt more to keep doing so.

I have not been playing as long as you (forget my forum date) but I wish you all the best for the future. What you have done for the game as well as all the players that also have either passed or retired have kept it going.

Happy Retirement

[Eantarus]

A while being about a month. And yeah, it was the culmination of a what I perceive to be missteps by SSG. I stopped logging in when I cancelled my VIP because I no longer thought SSG was deserving of my money.Yes, I've quit before - but this is the first time I've uninstalled the game since 2005. I've taken time off, either to cool off or until my interest in the game came back.

I never had the urge to outright purge DDO from my hard drive until now. This was my burning of the bridge. I know there are some forum pundits who will believe I will just reinstall before too long. I can assure you that unless the laundry list of problems I have with SSG changes - that bridge will remain ashes in the wind. It took me 17 years of near-constant play before I uninstalled. I did not do it on a whim or without what I see as just cause.


Please don't speculate on why I uninstalled and have consigned DDO to the Recycling Bin of History (unless there are some fundamental changes wrought). Just ask me. I won't be overly specific unless it's in a PM, because I know that often times my phrasing when I'm being honest doesn't mesh well with public-facing post moderation. That's a big reason why I changed my posting habits to mostly sticking to reaction .gifs and memes.


As always, I speak only for myself. If your mileage varies, good for you. Honestly - I'm happy you are still playing and enjoying. I hope you never get to this point as I have. The severing of any long-term relationship is hard, and this is no different. DDO has been an everyday factor in my life since the closed beta. It hurts to stop playing - but I got to the point where it hurt more to keep doing so.

Just a thought but if you really want to burn the bridge, delete all your characters first.

You shouldn't do this because change could happen. But that's how really tell a game company you are done. Record yourself deleting each character and uninstalling the game, post it to youtube.

[Wizard1406]

As always, I speak only for myself. If your mileage varies, good for you. Honestly - I'm happy you are still playing and enjoying. I hope you never get to this point as I have. The severing of any long-term relationship is hard, and this is no different. DDO has been an everyday factor in my life since the closed beta. It hurts to stop playing - but I got to the point where it hurt more to keep doing so.

It's sad to part after such a long time.

Have you found another game?

To me all the themepark MMOs (don't like sandbox or pvp MMOs) are either boring WOW-clones that hold my attention for like 1 month at a time only; asia grinders with massive gacha and pay-to-win; or niche indie titles with population like wayfinder and terrible graphics.

There is nothing like DDO IMHO and I love it and hope it stays alive long. It has it's issues but so far the positives still outweigh the negatives for me.

[Aelonwy]

Since you brought it up....

That airship irritated me as it seemed such a lazy way to add the quest area. Tons of area to make sharn seem more like a city but instead they just add a taxi. Its like the devs do not have a holistic view of their world. The hut from beyond is another example where something is dropped in to a city (do you really think the 12/coinlords would allow a random building to be dropped in the harbor of the city?) without much thought. And then they stick the prequest for IOD inside the hut and the access to the actual quests on a pier? ...

/rant

Yeah all of that bugged me too. Much as I enjoy Sharn the upper portion does feel disjointed and less immersive because you have little to no impression of where the quests are in relation to each other. Overlapping a few so that you could see some area of another quest even if you couldn't use it would have felt more captivating. I still think the Hut should have dropped in the Cerulean Hills. And then there's ALL THOSE PORTAL DOORS inside the Hut and I was immediately hoping that meant they would be used for at least some new adventures/mini-expacks etc.

[Eantarus]

Have you found another game?


I am always interested in what other games people find. Got to move somewhere when DDO finally goes offline.

[ahpook]

Yeah all of that bugged me too. .... And then there's ALL THOSE PORTAL DOORS inside the Hut and I was immediately hoping that meant they would be used for at least some new adventures/mini-expacks etc.
I know. It seemed like the obvious place to put the IOD portal. The bright side to not using them is that I hated going into the hut to get to Feywild. But I would put up with it to get a consistent well thought out approach rather than the collection of abandoned approaches we seem to get....

[Memnir]

Have you found another game?I have , but it's not another MMO. I'm leaving MMOs behind be as a genre. The only one(s) that I found that completed with DDO have all already died off, being City of Heroes/Villains.

Currently playing a lot of Marvel Snap. For a F2P CCG, it's surprisingly deep and very complex. I'm enjoying it, even if I'm currently not very good as I learn the gameplay rhythms and card synergies. Also putting in some time on Warhammer: Total War III, as well as building and painting my Warhammer 40k army for tabletop.

[Arkat]

...as well as building and painting my Warhammer 40k army for tabletop.

Now THAT will keep you busy!

[Memnir]

Now THAT will keep you busy!Yessir. Particularly since I'm also on the hook to build and paint my wife's army as well. lol She enjoys the game (and is brutally good at it :)), but she doesn't like the assembly process. For me, it's a very zen activity.

All in all, it's the pandemic hobby we picked up that we enjoy the most. :D

[Eantarus]

I'm leaving MMOs behind be as a genre.

Oof. That's a tough thought.

Personally I'm an MMO gamer. I keep having to explain that to my friends who say "Oh, you'd like this [insert single player game]". No, I wouldn't. I'm an MMO gamer.

[Drunkendex]

Uninstalling DDO does not mean quitting the game as at any time you can re-install the game and all will be as it was when you left. Now deleting all your toons is a different story although you can ask for them to be un-deleted

2.5 years, between ragequitting (and giving away 90% of unbound stuff) and coming back.

Never say never...

[Memnir]

I'm an MMO gamer.I honestly haven't been for a good long time now. I've been almost primarily a solo player since 2015, when I had my latest medical calamity. Between 2010 and 2012, I also had a series of should-have-been-fatal medical events, as well. I've lost track of doctors who've told me I shouldn't be here, and it's kind of darkly amusing to see the slow look of horror on a new medical professional's face when they read my chart. The end result is, I have a slew of medical issues that make the game much more difficult to play - and I often have to stop playing with little/zero notice. None of which was really conducive to group-play - and I didn't think it was fair to be that kind of a burden on a group. So, I just had fun working out new alts to play - and seeing how far I could get on my own as my medical issues would allow.

Made the No mo' MMO choice a lot more viable. lol


But, that's also why I've been trying to make it known that I never speak beyond my own perspective. There can't be many folks who've played DDO the way I have, or for the reasons I have, and I know very very well that I can't speak to others' experiences with the game. My reasons for playing, goals while playing, and rewards for playing haven't jibbed with the meta for about a decade now, since my first medical pratfall. I'm a much more filthy casual now. :D

[Maldorin]

Uninstalling DDO does not mean quitting the game as at any time you can re-install the game and all will be as it was when you left. Now deleting all your toons is a different story although you can ask for them to be un-deleted

Having been down that road, I would like to comment here that they will indeed undelete your toons and it's free. The TR cache is lost. I lost a lot of stuff. So anyone deciding to delete, if there is an inkling of a chance you might come back, I highly advise you empty your TR cache first.

[adamkatt]

I predict mem will still be around to forums to post silly picture comments!

[Phatlewts]

I predict mem will still be around to forums to post silly picture comments!

So what? While I appreciate Mem's posts and I am in not saying the game is going to die tomorrow, there are serious structural reasons behind his leaving that should concern everyone. If you think he is a stand alone example, you are wrong.

[Eantarus]

So what? While I appreciate Mem's posts and I am in not saying the game is going to die tomorrow, there are serious structural reasons behind his leaving that should concern everyone. If you think he is a stand alone example, you are wrong.

Oh plenty of us are certainly concerned. The problem is SSG isn't.

[Seph1roth5]

There is another problems, Lama isn't for feedback, it's just a quick larger scale test of the code to be sure nothing is completely broken, and we know how well that has worked. The Devs need pre pre pre Lama releases with real opportunity for feedback, not the current show and go lama.

But...not only do things that are broken on lam still make it to live, but new things are added after the last lam that break new things and then make it to live. That's like...negative/bizarro testing.

[Oxarhamar]

Since you brought it up....

That airship irritated me as it seemed such a lazy way to add the quest area. Tons of area to make sharn seem more like a city but instead they just add a taxi. Its like the devs do not have a holistic view of their world. The hut from beyond is another example where something is dropped in to a city (do you really think the 12/coinlords would allow a random building to be dropped in the harbor of the city?) without much thought. And then they stick the prequest for IOD inside the hut and the access to the actual quests on a pier? ...

/rant

Alot of the stuff annoys me as well

whats the quest with the boat where you get on the boat tell them where to take you then the entire boat teleports then get on a boat & it's just load screen load screen load screen

I really feel like im losing imersion when I'm in the middle of a quest & I get a splash screen for some totally unrelated quest

[Ereshkigal]

Alot of the stuff annoys me as well

whats the quest with the boat where you get on the boat tell them where to take you then the entire boat teleports then get on a boat & it's just load screen load screen load screen

I really feel like im losing imersion when I'm in the middle of a quest & I get a splash screen for some totally unrelated quest

My guess is they're gonna see if people play that quests or not and if enough people are playing it compared to similar quests then they'll assume there's no problem and move on with making more with the same awful mechanic.

That being said, I dislike that quest too. greatly. I think I've played it maybe 3 or 4 times out of my last 20 or so lives, and only because I was already in a group that decided to head that direction.

[Phatlewts]

Since you brought it up....

That airship irritated me as it seemed such a lazy way to add the quest area. Tons of area to make sharn seem more like a city but instead they just add a taxi. Its like the devs do not have a holistic view of their world. The hut from beyond is another example where something is dropped in to a city (do you really think the 12/coinlords would allow a random building to be dropped in the harbor of the city?) without much thought. And then they stick the prequest for IOD inside the hut and the access to the actual quests on a pier? ...

/rant

While I can't completely disagree with your sentiment, frankly I think this is like being on the deck of a sinking ship and noticing some sails that got put up are a color you don't like. If SSG needs to cut some corners, the magic hut in the harbor isn't a terrible solution. The new content doesn't really fix the fundamental underlying problems associated with over reliance on past lives, (and now) legendary levels, and the HC server. I honestly don't think the devs even understand core problems with DDO today. This is exacerbated by what appears to be a false sense of confidence and dismissal of constructive criticism and suggested fixes.

[shores11]

I am not even sure how to wrap my head around Memnir unistalling DDO. I am not sure when SSG started sowing the wind, could it be too many HC seasons, or the endless nerf bats or or or... But it seems like the whirlwind is upon us.

I agree anyone leaving the game is not good. However, because of one player which I assume you hold in high regard is leaving the game the world does not stop. I have been playing DDO since February 2006 (10-Day Pretrial, 17 plus years) without any breaks and I know of others. I play on Khyber with a group of folks at around 30-40 players and they all still love and enjoy the game. In fact, we play almost every day 6-7 days a week.

This does not mean there cannot be improvements to the game as there is nothing that is perfect. SSG is very active with providing updates, content, new races, new classes, new worlds, etc. I play and have played many other MMOs and have quit them without even a thought or some blasting self-serving email or forum post. I play DDO because in terms of all things in its environment to me it is the NUMBER 1 MMO on the market.

If there is something I don't like I just move on/forward with something else. SSG has done a great job with DDO, and I stay not only as a 17 plus year player but a VIP for 17 plus years.

[Oxarhamar]

My guess is they're gonna see if people play that quests or not and if enough people are playing it compared to similar quests then they'll assume there's no problem and move on with making more with the same awful mechanic.

That being said, I dislike that quest too. greatly. I think I've played it maybe 3 or 4 times out of my last 20 or so lives, and only because I was already in a group that decided to head that direction.

If they had splash screen that was related to the storyline it wouldn’t be so bad but some quests feel like Dungeons & Load Screens I miss quests that didn’t have all these instances for no reason

[Buddha5440]

Just a thought but if you really want to burn the bridge, delete all your characters first.

You shouldn't do this because change could happen. But that's how really tell a game company you are done. Record yourself deleting each character and uninstalling the game, post it to youtube.

This!

-Because many current gamers live their lives in forums and Youtube/Facebook (now META because they realized they were failing their users)/Instagram/Twitter and such when there is a real world out there that needs to be experienced.

That said: It's saddening to see Memnir go :(

You will be missed :( .

Thank you for all you have done though :) and enjoy your next experience/adventure!

[ahpook]

While I can't completely disagree with your sentiment, frankly I think this is like being on the deck of a sinking ship and noticing some sails that got put up are a color you don't like. If SSG needs to cut some corners, the magic hut in the harbor isn't a terrible solution. ....

You are not wrong. It is so much a problem as an indicator of devs attention. Those wrong color sails could have been the right color but the sailors went out of their way to die them a different color because they didn't look up to see what was already laid out and what made sense.

[ahpook]

...

If there is something I don't like I just move on/forward with something else.
I do this too but the issues over the past year need to be addressed as not everyone is on that page. Raising issues even if we are enjoying the game should not be a negative.


SSG has done a great job with DDO,
If you look around you will see not everyone agrees with that assessment. If you can't see anything SSG could have done differently to keep players believing in the game that's cool but if you think it could be done better it doesn't hurt to voice those thoughts. If only the people who think SSG has done a great job are here next month then their won't be a game much longer.

[salmag]

I honestly haven't been for a good long time now. I've been almost primarily a solo player since 2015, when I had my latest medical calamity. Between 2010 and 2012, I also had a series of should-have-been-fatal medical events, as well. I've lost track of doctors who've told me I shouldn't be here, and it's kind of darkly amusing to see the slow look of horror on a new medical professional's face when they read my chart. The end result is, I have a slew of medical issues that make the game much more difficult to play - and I often have to stop playing with little/zero notice. None of which was really conducive to group-play - and I didn't think it was fair to be that kind of a burden on a group. So, I just had fun working out new alts to play - and seeing how far I could get on my own as my medical issues would allow.

Made the No mo' MMO choice a lot more viable. lol


But, that's also why I've been trying to make it known that I never speak beyond my own perspective. There can't be many folks who've played DDO the way I have, or for the reasons I have, and I know very very well that I can't speak to others' experiences with the game. My reasons for playing, goals while playing, and rewards for playing haven't jibbed with the meta for about a decade now, since my first medical pratfall. I'm a much more filthy casual now. :D

I wish you all the best and hope you enjoy anything you decide to do.
Marvel SNAP is great. I'm addicted to that and Marvel Strike Force. I tend to play them while my wife watches TV.

I really hope SSG decides to change their mindset.

[adamkatt]

So what? While I appreciate Mem's posts and I am in not saying the game is going to die tomorrow, there are serious structural reasons behind his leaving that should concern everyone. If you think he is a stand alone example, you are wrong.

wow you read a lot into my post, overthinking ftw!!!!

[Phatlewts]

SSG has done a great job with DDO
Ravenloft and even Sharn were high points for SSG's job making DDO. But they are ACTIVELY breaking the game. The wayyyyy to often HC leagues, the massive over reliance of past lives as a method of engagement. And while I didn't fully understand the problems associated with reaper points when reaper arrived, I know can see that as another unforced error by SSG. All I do is run past lives these days, and for what? For an endgame that barely exists and probably won't by the time I finish. You like where SSG is taking DDO, great. But there are many of us simply unhappy with a lot of the recent decisions. I took a break from DDO in 2013 for 3 years. I came back and have been pretty happy with the game, but the last 3 years or so have seen a significant change in the direction of this game and if that is where the devs want to take things, I doubt I will stick around. I can only pointlessly hamster for so long...