Downtime Notice: Wednesday, January 4th 9:00 AM - 12:00 PM Eastern (-5 GMT)

[Cordovan]

UPDATE: The game worlds have reopened.

The DDO game worlds will be unavailable on Wednesday, January 4th from 9:00 AM - 12:00 PM Eastern (-5 GMT) for weekly maintenance. NOTE: The 2022 VIP Daily Gold Roll will no longer be available after this downtime. Thank you for your patience, and we will see you back in the game soon!

[merridyan]

The DDO game worlds will be unavailable on Wednesday, January 4th from 9:00 AM - 12:00 PM Eastern (-5 GMT) for weekly maintenance. NOTE: The 2022 VIP Daily Gold Roll will no longer be available after this downtime. Thank you for your patience, and we will see you back in the game soon!

So what is being added to VIP to make up for the removal? This was added due to reducing the value of VIP by making most of the classes/races free, or are we going to have to wait a while until we see something added?

[rabidfox]

So producers letter when? Curious what VIP perks are going to be like going forward. We getting something nice to replace that? Or was it just a one-off boost for most of a year?

[ahpook]

So producers letter when?
They would need a producer to do that...

[Captain_Wizbang]

So what is being added to VIP to make up for the removal? This was added due to reducing the value of VIP by making most of the classes/races free, or are we going to have to wait a while until we see something added?

removing the daily gold roll will have "consequences"

Not enough value @ $ with vip right now.

[Urklore]

The DDO game worlds will be unavailable on Wednesday, January 4th from 9:00 AM - 12:00 PM Eastern (-5 GMT) for weekly maintenance. NOTE: The 2022 VIP Daily Gold Roll will no longer be available after this downtime. Thank you for your patience, and we will see you back in the game soon!

I would have to agree. This is the only reason I kept my sub going for almost a year were for the daily gold dice. There is little of value now to continue a sub to DDO.

[Qeistalan]

What does "A Bill of Goods" mean?

Definition: Person 1 shows Person 2 a bill for goods, and Person 2 pays Person 1 for those items based on the list, rather than waiting and seeing the materials themselves ... but Person 1 was "not entirely forthcoming" that the bill of goods was inaccurate or altogether false, resulting in Person 2 being scammed by Person 1.

So, SSG: What are you prepared to offer -- in compensation for deprecating Daily Gold Rolls -- to make VIP subscriptions worth financial investment?

Also: How do DDO VIPs make changes to the VIP subscription so it does not auto-renew? [Asking for a friend/whale.]

[superevbully]

The DDO game worlds will be unavailable on Wednesday, January 4th from 9:00 AM - 12:00 PM Eastern (-5 GMT) for weekly maintenance. NOTE: The 2022 VIP Daily Gold Roll will no longer be available after this downtime. Thank you for your patience, and we will see you back in the game soon!

WOW ...stunning post .....smh

[Phoenicis]

*shakes head*

I find myself disappointed in humanity.

[Crell_1]

So what is being added to VIP to make up for the removal? This was added due to reducing the value of VIP by making most of the classes/races free, or are we going to have to wait a while until we see something added?

This. Why remove value from VIP without adding something to take its place?

[superevbully]

So what is being added to VIP to make up for the removal? This was added due to reducing the value of VIP by making most of the classes/races free, or are we going to have to wait a while until we see something added?

Wait obv i mean lag reduction chat issues hell hc server transfers .etc etc yeah we gotta wait while our vips are devalued ..hows that make u as a paying customer feel ............****ed off

[sturmbb]

I would have to agree. This is the only reason I kept my sub going for almost a year were for the daily gold dice. There is little of value now to continue a sub to DDO.

Unfortunately for me VIP is only worth subscribing while HC is active. The number one reason i kept my subscription going for the full year was due to the Daily Gold rolls. If they are not going to offer anything else in place of this removal. Than i will stop my subscription. Last year they were talking about making improvements to VIP but as of yet (other than the daily gold roll (which i believe was due to the fact they made many races / Classes f2p)) I have heard no mention of adding anything to increase the value of VIP (also in the current climate every penny counts at the moment and people are already tightening there belts, so for me this is an easy decision).

It's funny because you would think they would be trying to entice the limited player base to subscribe to VIP, so the company increases there overall monthly profit. I am no financial expert but making additional digital rewards available to the player base would not cost SSG any more money but would increase there monthly income. I cannot figure out for the life of me, why they don't make VIP as enticing as possible. If i was running the company i would run a poll asking the player base what rewards they could offer to make VIP more attractive and make more players subscribe. Instead they do the opposite and make VIP quite unappealing (apart from being able to open elite on first life, i can pretty much live without VIP)

[Arkat]

NOTE: The 2022 VIP Daily Gold Roll will no longer be available after this downtime.

As I mentioned in another thread, I bought a 1 month VIP subscription a few days before Christmas for two reasons:

1. I wanted to take advantage of the +15% VIP experience for a week or so, and

2. I wanted to take advantage of the VIP gold rolls to have a shot at getting the gold roll Nightmare.

Now I see SSG is removing one of the things I specifically paid for without any explanation or a promise of any sort to make up for what I thought I was getting but am now not getting.

I am not pleased. :mad:

[CEastwood]

VIP with the removal of the gold roll is now in my opinion poor value from borderline. My VIP was due to autorenew 1/20/2023 ... not anymore. Poor show SSG ill go to FTP

[Zeleron]

https://www.ddo.com/news/ddo-producer-letter-feb-2022

Oh hey look they did say through the end of the year. well it's 2023, at least they kept their word.

[mikarddo]

The free Gold rolls to VIP were only promised for the remaining part of 2022 so in that sense it was expected to be removed. Thus complaining that SSG does as annouced from the unset isnt applaudable.

But, as others have mentioned, VIP needs added value and the daily gold rolls filled that niche nicely. Now SSG needs to add something of similar value if VIP is to remain attractive. Hopefully soon as DDO doesnt need more people that stop playing.

[Arkat]

The free Gold rolls to VIP were only promised for the remaining part of 2022 so in that sense it was expected to be removed.

Expecting us to remember this after 10 months strikes me as "unreasonable."



Thus complaining that SSG does as annouced from the unset isnt applaudable.


???

[ccd1977]

The free Gold rolls to VIP were only promised for the remaining part of 2022 so in that sense it was expected to be removed. Thus complaining that SSG does as annouced from the unset isnt applaudable.
I wish I did not come back just last month and read that announcement.

But, as others have mentioned, VIP needs added value and the daily gold rolls filled that niche nicely. Now SSG needs to add something of similar value if VIP is to remain attractive. Hopefully soon as DDO doesnt need more people that stop playing.

From what I have read, they have slowly been trying to phase out access to certain content for VIP such as Sharn, Fey, races, etc and now Gold rolls. The sub model is so profitable but when they start stripping this model of what keeps players then it is clear the transition is either to do 1 of 2 things.

1. phase out into purchases only
2. phase out DDO completely.

There is a reason software companies like Microsoft,Google, Adobe, etc do subscription and give massive content. Because it profits like crazy. They will never go back to the purchase model again because it will never renew that same content.

Yeah, I cancelled my sub. I cannot invest more if I am losing more. I got 2 months left so lets see how much my buyers remorse is.

[Jacobius]

https://www.ddo.com/news/ddo-producer-letter-feb-2022

Oh hey look they did say through the end of the year. well it's 2023, at least they kept their word.

And if you look at the letter it also says there will be more information in the patch notes regarding the free daily gold rolls. And iirmc it stated that this was a place holder to add value to vip till they came up with a different way to make VIP a better value and they would be announcing that.

But the thing is I went to go look at those patch notes to verify if I was correct and they are no longer available to see.

As someone who has been pretty supportive of DDO in general not complaining about issues and thinking the rage in forums is often ridiculous I will say this just shutting it off with never another word after alomst a full year to make one, that was said to have come is very bad form and I do believe I will no longer be supporting this game. Unfortunatley my VIP sub just renewed 3 weeks ago which I have had almost continuously since 2006 will be my last one most likely.

I have mostly enjoyed all my time with this game I am not raging or saying anyone else should leave or anything just has put a bad taste in my mouth and think this is it for me. Good luck to you all and have fun!!

[ahpook]

From what I have read, they have slowly been trying to phase out access to certain content for VIP such as Sharn, Fey, races, etc and now Gold rolls.

That wording is rather misleading. Sharn and Feywild (as well as IoD, Saltmarsh, Ravenloft, ...) have always been extra purchases and they have not been phased out from VIP. You are correct that they started to add expansions that were not part of the subscription model but that started a long while back and those expansions were always extra $ for VIP. Races were made free to everyone so those were also not removed from VIP though you no longer needed VIP to use them. Gold Rolls were announced as 1 year perk to make VIP more attractive so saying that is being phased out would also be incorrect.

But you are correct that expansions and making VIP perks free to everyone have reduced the value of the VIP subscription. Removing Gold Rolls without addressing the reason it was added seems rather shortsighted on the part of SSG. But they like to shoot themselves in the foot so perhaps they are enjoying the drama.

[RTN]

And if you look at the letter it also says there will be more information in the patch notes regarding the free daily gold rolls. And iirmc it stated that this was a place holder to add value to vip till they came up with a different way to make VIP a better value and they would be announcing that.


Yes, it was explicitly through the end of 2022 as they thought up ways to make VIP more desirable since they knew and admitted they'd been degrading its value as they shifted more things to ftp. It might have also been in the Tolero youtube interview. Hopefully, they'll surprise us with a producer's letter and announcement tomorrow, but....

[Jomee]

Doooom!

https://media.giphy.com/media/xBqg5gAf1xINizpek6/giphy.gif

[rabidfox]

Yes, it was explicitly through the end of 2022 as they thought up ways to make VIP more desirable since they knew and admitted they'd been degrading its value as they shifted more things to ftp. It might have also been in the Tolero youtube interview. Hopefully, they'll surprise us with a producer's letter and announcement tomorrow, but....

"Coming soon, new VIP perks" would been a wise announcement to make alongside today's post.

[Firebreed]

I too would like to see the daily gold roll stay for VIP.

[thegreatcthulhu]

Cord - It's concerning that nothing was announced to go along with this, I hope that concern is addressed soon. I don't like these "sky is falling" vibes.

[Cordovan]

The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging. We know you enjoyed this benefit for the past year, and we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.

[Memnir]

NOTE: The 2022 VIP Daily Gold Roll will no longer be available after this downtime. Thank you for your patience, and we will see you back in the game soon!NOTE: The only reason I was still bothering to log in while my VIP burns to the end of it's wick will no longer be available after this downtime. I've run out of patience, and I'm very glad I cancelled that autopay. Thanks for nothin'.

[Memnir]

The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging. We know you enjoyed this benefit for the past year, and we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.Y'all keep looking because you've got no other ideas. None. Y'all have had how long since VIP became a thing to come up with something new? That was in 2009, if I'm not mistaken - 13 years? Nothing happened with VIP at all until this Gold Roll idea came along mid last year - and guess what? People. Liked. Having. It. So, naturally, y'all killed it before announcing the What Next.

You had a good idea, this was it, and could have decided to keep it rolling. But, as seems to be on-brand, y'all just decided to kill it without any replacement. This is really bad decision making, and bad decision making is why I've decided to stop giving SSG my money. Is that worth it, SSG? A good trade? Because after years of bad decision making - I've already hit my limit and called off my VIP. My money is now happily flowing elsewhere - and it's going to take a lot to get it back. For years I paid as a Thank You to y'all for making this game. Now it's gone. I would keep lecturing but I know it's just going to fall on deaf ears. Maybe this pair of posts will be the ones that finally gets me forum banned - lord knows I'm also sick of being polite and biting my tongue and y'all really hate blunt criticism. And that's another layer of the rotten parfait that helped me hit "cancel" on my account page. I'm likewise done trying to just joke my way through this.

Sincerely,
An angry and fed-up former VIP and SSG supporter.

[Arkat]

The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging. We know you enjoyed this benefit for the past year, and we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.

Previous messaging?

You mean the messaging in the Producer's Letter from February 2022...10 Months ago??

You can't be serious. :rolleyes:

As Memnir pointed out above, SSG has had PLENTY of time (10 months at the minimum) to come up with something else to replace the gold rolls.

They have not.

[LT218]

You all didn't actually think SSG's definition of VIP was "very important person" did you?

As best I can tell, VIP in this context stands for "very inadvisable purchase".

[LT218]

We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.
Yes, the heroic efforts SSG put into the search for new ways really shows. Speaks for itself regardless of whatever corporate double-speak you try to paint it with.

I put the same level of effort into renewing 2 VIP subscriptions (i.e. none).

https://i.imgur.com/SRlGRLU.png

[Akoriv]

The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging. We know you enjoyed this benefit for the past year, and we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.

Subscription cancelled. This was about the only reason I have kept a subscription running. You're giving **** quality for the money for VIPs. At least, the daily gold rolls would give me some random rewards I would actually use. The content provided by VIP that I do not already own, I do not care too much about. I have never even set foot in the last update's dungeons.The gear is interesting but I really do not like the quests. I ran the Hunt dungeons maybe two or three times. I can live happily without running the raid.

If you want us to pay for VIP, give us something to make it at least marginally acceptable to pay for it.

[mbartol]

The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging. We know you enjoyed this benefit for the past year, and we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.

How about something like: due to the popularity of the daily gold rolls, we are excited to announce that it will be extended until we roll out the new VIP benefits.

[Impaqt]

They would need a producer to do that...

What happened to Tolero?

[Impaqt]

The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging. We know you enjoyed this benefit for the past year, and we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.

It would of been nice to post some reminders to that effect over the last 6 months. I do seem to recall that being left on permanently was not out of the question... and since VIP's really haven't gotten a lot of boosts since the gold rolls were added, it seems fitting that they would remain in place.

I know I'm no whale in this game, but I have been a VIP subscriber... Continuously.... since 2006. I make some additional point purchases throughout the year as well... I love this game and I want to support it best I can... but things like this really make me question my commitment to that. It just does not make sense to turn it off like this.

[Arkat]

How about something like: due to the popularity of the daily gold rolls, we are excited to announce that it will be extended until we roll out the new VIP benefits.

An INFINITELY better way to communicate with your customers!

+1

[FixBows]

The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging. We know you enjoyed this benefit for the past year, and we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.

We seem to be forgetting the other half of the message when the 1 year of gold rolls was announced; which was that SSG knew VIP was weak for the value and there was a promise to make it worthwhile. And yeah, that also coincided with you announcing no more free content/ mini expansions. Now, that year has passed and the only thing that is "in-line with messaging" is that daily gold rolls are going away. How about the rest of that messaging about adding value to VIP?

And by the way, you have had a full year to come up with something to replace daily gold rolls knowing that this time would come... yet, there is nothing. There are free to play games out there that give more for folks just to log in each day and play. DDO is so far behind the curve for VIP it is embarrassing

[Malveaux]

What would make vip better. I could buy into gold rolls every other day or every 3 days. Plus 25% vip xp bonus or 20% vip bonus with also a permanent grouping bonus. Until there is some benefit to vip. I will let my vip lapse as I already own all the content races and classes. Which I bought 99% of that.

[superevbully]

The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging. We know you enjoyed this benefit for the past year, and we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.

Another stunning post just want to say stop with the whole once we have blah blah blah ..ty .....ive also removed the cc renewal today

[systemshaker1941]

The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging. We know you enjoyed this benefit for the past year, and we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.

Let me see if I follow...

You found a way to improve VIP benefits that everyone likes.

Everyone tells you that they like and that you should keep it.

You decide to get rid of it anyway.


Does this logic may sense to anyone here?

[Zavier]

The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging. We know you enjoyed this benefit for the past year, and we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.

https://i.imgur.com/uEfNCuy.png


So be it!

[Antheal]

...we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.

Well this reads exactly like deflecting corporate BS-speak without any actual information, details, or providing any evidence for your statement.

[Alternative]

You guys just need to be a little bit more passionate!

[Anurakh]

People have been complaining for a long time that VIP subscription has little value. SSG finds a perk that almost everyone seems to like and doesn't cost development time (Daily gold says). Withdraws it when the trial period ends without adding new perks.

You're within your rights, SSG, but it's not exactly the wisest business move. You should listen better to your customers; VIPs have long been unhappy with the value of the subscription. You can't just design for gameplay. A business like this requires updating other areas as well, listening to the feelings of your customers. Do you even know that many people consider VIP a detriment rather than an advantage, because VIPs are left out of many sales? How come after 16 years you still haven't fixed that VIP can't to buy things from their subscription? Don't you appreciate the customers who could buy vip occasionally, that there are many of those?

There are many things that you let get old without updating. VIP is one of those things. Another is the new player retention model: DDO is the game with the worst retention of new players I know of and it's because it's still anchored in premises that have been outdated for years (and yes, open elite shouldn't be a VIP perk, but something for everyone, it's 2023! VIP needs better perks than that). Another thing that is too old is the past lives model without catch-up mechanisms: you can't add more and more PLs without helping new players and alts, devs! Another very dated system is storage, with obsolete and annoying things like TR cache, lack of cosmetic storage, as well as alchemical (time to implement a bta accessible system to store our pots, scrolls, cookies, tomes and such!). A btc to bta item pass has been needed for years. The market and the DDO store have been missing things for centuries that could give you good benefits, starting with bundles of old expansions and starter packs, and continuing with things that veterans like (even expanding the list of wishes!) and a cosmetic display system that it works (do you know how long it has been broken?).

How about making fewer unnecessary changes to the gameplay and instead updating all that outdated stuff? You will gain more goodwill from your customers.

[Loromir]

What happened to Tolero?

Ditto....where is Amanda?

[Nugaot]

The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging. We know you enjoyed this benefit for the past year, and we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.

Dude, are you...okay? Blink twice if you need help.

[Lamassut]

Curious. I know a lot of people who subscribed just for the daily dice, even though the list of gold rewards leaves a lot to be desired (from my own experience I can say it's more of a hoax than anything else) But people seemed to like the gold rolls , so it seems weird to remove a perk that has turned out to be beneficial for increasing subscriptions.

Oh well. I've been saying for years that SSG needs a marketing expert. Or at least one person with common sense in charge of the sales department…

[Tarinia]

The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging. We know you enjoyed this benefit for the past year, and we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.

Hi Cordovan,

I really not often tell something about doing mistakes on SSI side, but
1. not seeing any producers letter, where future of VIPs is a main theme (in fact should there not be a producer letter every few month- where it is?)
2. knowing by yourself, that your VIP treatment is not very VIPlike
3. letting many years gone by without bringing a solution
4. making a promise to give VIPs something else if gold roll end and not doing it

is really a way to push VIPs away if nothing else.
I would think about it again, if I would be your producer. I love DDO but perhaps beeing Non VIP is also a good alternativ till you give us something better.

Thanks
Tarinia

[Bjond]

is really a way to push VIPs away

I'm often fairly critical of SSG, but on this one I find it hard to fathom why anyone cares about the gold/silver rolls. The XP stones are kinda nice when stockpiled, but hardly worth a login. The other items are almost universally junk I just pitch over the side. IMHO, the problem with the VIP feature set is that some are insulting (such as access to customer support .. uh, lol?) and extra access isn't extra to a player that has been racking up "free" DDO points and using them to buy packs, races, etc (ie. many long term players).

So, yeah, y'all are right about there not being much draw to entice people into VIP, but the presence or absence of daily golds isn't going to change that.

[ccd1977]

I'm often fairly critical of SSG, but on this one I find it hard to fathom why anyone cares about the gold/silver rolls. The XP stones are kinda nice when stockpiled, but hardly worth a login. The other items are almost universally junk I just pitch over the side. IMHO, the problem with the VIP feature set is that some are insulting (such as access to customer support .. uh, lol?) and extra access isn't extra to a player that has been racking up "free" DDO points and using them to buy packs, races, etc (ie. many long term players).

So, yeah, y'all are right about there not being much draw to entice people into VIP, but the presence or absence of daily golds isn't going to change that.

The Exp rewards are nice and allows you to get a little head start but what does it for me...the nostalgia! The first thing we are doing is rolling dice. Its a D&D feel and it gets you going, feels good and gives a nice experience to the game. Now its just blah, silver rolls always suck.

[Epicsoul]

The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging. We know you enjoyed this benefit for the past year, and we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.

This doesn't help. "We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit" doesn't sound promising. I expected something much more concrete at this point. I hope this post is inaccurate and tone deaf of where SSG is in the process of announcing a new VIP package. If you're really still in the "we're always looking for ways" phase, consider me disappointed in SSGs continued failures.

[Glorious]

The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging. We know you enjoyed this benefit for the past year, and we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.

I have to say that this is rather disappointing. if you go back through my post history you should be able to see a consistent, dev supporter, a person who often calls out those who are criticizing the game for various issues over the years.

This is the first time I am frustrated enough to post the opposite. You can't tell a community of people who continually pay every month that their money and gameplay has value to you and then not do something about it. I totally agree Cordovan, the end date for the gold rolls has been communicated and known - but also was the commitment that something was coming to replace it to make VIP worthwhile. Looking back on my Points purchases and VIP subscription I would bet that me, my husband and at least one of our friends is close to "Whale" status - we have been playing this game off and on since Beta, it is our primary source of engagement with my husbands best friend, other friends as well - as well as having huge entertainment value for us.

This attitude of "hey you knew this was ending, and oops we don't have a solve, but we are trying to come up with one" is kind of ridiculous. Let's just say that in my business, if I was selling my products to a retailer, and for 10 months I had given them extra trade funding that allowed for a decreased price on an item and then took it away with no new program - well my product would no longer be in Distribution on their shelves.

Now I am a bit of a DDO optimist - and making SSG is just having some New Years fun and in the release notes a reveal is coming - and if that's the case then YAY! So I hope you guys pull this usual big time vocal SSG/DDO supporter from the brink of finding somewhere else to direct the few hundred dollars I have spent on this game in the last year alone.

[Stimulus]

to making sure our VIP benefits remain great.

"Remain."

O.o

[TitusOvid]

Y'all keep looking because you've got no other ideas. None. Y'all have had how long since VIP became a thing to come up with something new? That was in 2009, if I'm not mistaken - 13 years? Nothing happened with VIP at all until this Gold Roll idea came along mid last year - and guess what? People. Liked. Having. It. So, naturally, y'all killed it before announcing the What Next.

You had a good idea, this was it, and could have decided to keep it rolling. But, as seems to be on-brand, y'all just decided to kill it without any replacement. This is really bad decision making, and bad decision making is why I've decided to stop giving SSG my money. Is that worth it, SSG? A good trade? Because after years of bad decision making - I've already hit my limit and called off my VIP. My money is now happily flowing elsewhere - and it's going to take a lot to get it back. For years I paid as a Thank You to y'all for making this game. Now it's gone. I would keep lecturing but I know it's just going to fall on deaf ears. Maybe this pair of posts will be the ones that finally gets me forum banned - lord knows I'm also sick of being polite and biting my tongue and y'all really hate blunt criticism. And that's another layer of the rotten parfait that helped me hit "cancel" on my account page. I'm likewise done trying to just joke my way through this.

Sincerely,
An angry and fed-up former VIP and SSG supporter.

Wow, I love it. +1

This is what happens all over the game. SSG doesn't gain new payers and is losing loyal ones. Great strategy.

Cheers,
Titus.

[Ralatar]

Well, returning beta player (2006). Given what I'm seeing, it looks like SSG could care less about keeping paying customers. Seems like most game developers have developed the 'we don't care if you give us money' mentality. Guess SSG can keep this going on their own dime, so best of luck to them.

[longsdale]

funny. my two cents: this goldroll is just digital one click away from caring. im not VIP but why not letting this going on? it hurts no one, it doesn't involve any bugs and its just going on the sideways. even the economy isnt touched by that (proof me wrong). most games have a daily rewards. it keeps players playing. and in all its just digital. you could flood the daily reward with 100 healpots for everyone. no one would care and it wouldnt have influence on economy. (maybe the moneymaking economy on the itemshop. why we need to pay for spellpoints again if every game drops that for free and in mass?)

[FixBows]

Another guarantee, besides SSG treating their customers poorly, is that SSG will not comment on this, put their hands over their eyes / ears and hope it goes away.

[FixBows]

That's okay, because the vast majority of this thread sounds like a bunch of children crying over things not going their way. Which is typical of 95% of the people on the forums here.

More like adults understanding their hard-earned money is now being devalued further with VIP in this game. Yes, there is complaining, but it is well earned from SSG. They have had ample time to figure out VIP and there is nothing to show for it. They have made multiple statements that they would do something and yet the ONLY thing that was done positively has ended and their unfulfilled promise is the only thing that remains.

[Edyil]

Cordovan,

I would like to just say that the point of holding a Subscription base it to ensure, at almost any cost, that they remain happy and loyal. THEY are the constant that allows for new content, upgrades and special events. There is no circumstance that exists which calls for action that reduces the Sub base. None. Now mods and tweaks might be needed to balance within the realm of subscription users. But, overall, the job of every employee is to ensure that the subscription base remain content. In return the company, and directly its employees, get paid.

Having said that - Why not just modify a very enjoyable little feature? A friend of mine and I compare our dice almost every single day. And almost every single day, that bastage beats me!! He definitely has loaded dice! But you see what I'm saying right? It's fun! Especially when I get a higher roll....

I would like to know which part of it is soooooo OP that it has to go. I don't see it. It has almost no impact on our gameplay. Since we level together, the other day we both ended a dungeon needed about 2kexp. So we both used the equivalent of 3k DD gems and leveled. Is that OP part? Really?

Enough of that. Solutions - Why not just make DD have a critical threat range based on consecutive years of subscription (max 10).

DD Crit Threat range -
Year of consecutive subs / Threat range
0 / None
1 / 100
2 / 99-100
3 / 98-100
4 / 97-100
5 / 96-100
6 / 95-100
7 / 94-100
8 / 93-100
9 / 92-100
10 / 91-100

On DD Crit
Roll DD again and include all the things you think are OP in this roll. Have them weighted, of course, but the weights would be significantly more applicable to protect those OP items that need to go (for some reason I don't understand).

Our three subs are coming up this month as well. I don't understand the benefits I'm getting. I mean that with all honesty. I'm a returned player (3 month sub in Oct) and I don't know what I'm getting. Maybe think about doing things in game that highlight (literally highlight or make gold or make glow or put a golden VIP next to it on or on it) VIP benies in game so we know and appreciate what we have. Is there a VIP buff icon which I can hover/inspect and see what I get?

[MaeveTuohy]

Ditto....where is Amanda?

Her one and only communication suggested more communication. Things were looking up. They are looking back down again.

Also, I am not really typing this message because the forums were brought down permanently in December.

[Cordovan]

The game worlds have reopened.

[dunklezhan]

That's okay, because the vast majority of this thread sounds like a bunch of children crying over things not going their way. Which is typical of 95% of the people on the forums here.

I don't have a problem with SSG removing the daily gold rolls, nor people complaining and choosing not to renew a sub:

SSG: we know our changes have devalued VIP, we're working on it. Here's a thing for x period as a thank you for keeping your sub whilst we work on it.
Some VIPs on the verge of quitting: that's amazing and enough for me to keep my sub.
SSG after x period: Not done anything that you know of, taking away the thing now.
Some VIPs on the verge of quitting: why would you do that without anything to replace it? Quitting.
Some more VIPs: why you would do that without anything to replace it? I'm not sure this is worth it and I feel like you don't think it is either.

In other words: SSG wanted to avoid an outcome so did a thing they said was short term whilst they worked on the long term. Then they removed the short term thing without a long term thing, and now the outcome in question is happening.

If that outcome is intentional, well then it's a superb plan.

The only innocent explanation I can come up with is misaligned schedules and incohesive internal and customer communication. The alternative is that they do in fact want to run down VIP. Or something I'm not good enough at 4D chess to have thought of, which to be honest could be myriad.

It seems to me like this whole thread is entirely needless, whether you agree people are being over/non-justifiably emotional or not: it would have been less effort for it to not happen at all.

Bonkers.

All that said, I fundamentally don't see the problem with just letting the daily gold rolls for VIP be a permanent thing.

I mean what does it cost SSG, really? Hell, give everyone a weekly gold and let VIPs keep their daily, I still don't see the problem. Does it unbalance the game somehow to give out free xp, or does that not just drive people more quickly to be able to reincarnate, i.e. keep playing. Does the freebie trickle really hurt store sales that much? I can't imagine it does. And if it does... I mean they've had 10 months to just... change the tables on the dice rolls.

[ahpook]

What happened to Tolero?
Not sure but based on the myriad unaddressed issues over the past year it is far simpler to assume that the position is vacant rather than someone is actively "doing" the job.

[ahpook]

I don't have a problem with SSG removing the daily gold rolls, nor people complaining and choosing not to renew a sub:
...
Agreed. While the decision to remove it was questionable the decision to communicate it so poorly is truly awful.

[Belnavar]

I'm usually quite supportive of SSG, but removing the daily gold rolls without having something to replace it was very bad idea, imo. This was one of the only reasons I kept my VIP sub up last time, and I'm likely to let it lapse now if VIP continues to see its benefits diminished or removed.

I was so supportive of the idea of daily gold rolls as an interim measure that I thought it should be applied to LOTRO too. We keep hearing that you're evaluating ways to add more value to VIP, but we don't see any actual changes. The daily gold rolls were the only thing we got for DDO to bridge the gap, so I really don't get why you couldn't continue them until VIP is actually made worthwhile again.

For what it's worth, I know several players who agree with me 100% on this, and they're likely to let their VIP status lapse also.

-Bel

[Arkat]

Not sure but based on the myriad unaddressed issues over the past year it is far simpler to assume that the position is vacant rather than someone is actively "doing" the job.

Boy, it sure seems that way.



While the decision to remove it was questionable the decision to communicate it so poorly is truly awful.

This too.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Agreed. While the decision to remove it was questionable the decision to communicate it so poorly is truly awful.


No offence meant, but we knew a year ago it was going to be removed. As to plans for the future 100%, zero transparency.

I'm sure there was/is a big meeting during down time about this. It would be great too hear from someone at SSG

[Belnavar]

No offence meant, but we knew a year ago it was going to be removed. As to plans for the future 100%, zero transparency.

I'm sure there was/is a big meeting during down time about this. It would be great too hear from someone at SSG

It was heavily implied, I think on streams also, that when this did go, we'd get other stuff to make VIP more valuable. I'm certainly not the only person who got that impression, and I would say I have both a pretty good memory and good attention to detail. Yet even if it wasn't, they clearly added this as an interim because they themselves recognised that VIP is undervalued. It came at the same time when lots of races and classes were being made free to all players (further diminishing VIP). It makes zero sense to remove it without improving VIP.

-Bel

[Captain_Wizbang]

It was heavily implied, I think on streams also, that when this did go, we'd get other stuff to make VIP more valuable. I'm certainly not the only person who got that impression, and I would say I have both a pretty good memory and good attention to detail. Yet even if it wasn't, they clearly added this as an interim because they themselves recognised that VIP is undervalued. It came at the same time when lots of races and classes were being made free to all players (further diminishing VIP). It makes zero sense to remove it without improving VIP.

-Bel

I too was under the impression they were going to do other "things". I am sitting on the fence about cancelling my sub. The outcome of this is the determining factor.

[kpak01]

Does the freebie trickle really hurt store sales that much? I can't imagine it does.


The XP probably doesn't really hurt Box sales by any appreciable amount. But think of all the lost Bigby's Hand sales caused by free rolls!

[merridyan]

The XP probably doesn't really hurt Box sales by any appreciable amount. But think of all the lost Bigby's Hand sales caused by free rolls!

Probably a bit, I have gotten a +1 racial AP tome, a 1 to 2 racial AP tome and 2 +2 racial AP tomes, a +7 charisma tome, somewhere around 40 major slayer pots, 30% XP elixirs and more.

[MaeveTuohy]

Thank you oh grammar police, that small typo may have ended the world had it not been corrected. :p

You are most welcome.

[ahpook]

No offence meant, but we knew a year ago it was going to be removed. As to plans for the future 100%, zero transparency.

No offense taken. I called it questionable because based on current VIP contentment it seemed like poking the bee's nest (which it turned out to be). Despite it being supposed to be time limited, it would have been reasonable to leave it until there was something (anything) to replace it.

To make matters worse they tucked the notice in an aside to a downtime notice like they were embarassed to admit it. How hard would it have been to actually post a message reminding people that the Daily Gold was a time limited deal that was expiring but reminding that VIP still get weekly rolls and other benefits and hopefully with a time line indicating when other benefits would be announced. That would be minimal damage control that would not have appeased many but at least kept some fans less peeved.



I'm sure there was/is a big meeting during down time about this. It would be great too hear from someone at SSG
I have said something similar several times this past year only to get no info. IOW, don't hold your breath.

[frisco-polydragon]

NOTE: The 2022 VIP Daily Gold Roll will no longer be available after this downtime.

Goodbye daily gold, my wife and I shall miss you.

[Gratch]

RE: daily gold rolls. This year has been the first full year I've had VIP since F2P. So daily golds was a good incentive. (I'll also sub for most HC seasons for a month to get elite quest access).

They've had most of a year to come up with a replacement. While the dropping the rolls with no announcement is a bit unprofessional, SSG is a small team... I'm personally hoping they're focused on some brand new stuffs to tie-in with the upcoming D&D movie release.

What I'm saying is... DRUID OWLBEAR FORM... most important work.

[Captain_Wizbang]

No offense taken. I called it questionable because based on current VIP contentment it seemed like poking the bee's nest (which it turned out to be). Despite it being supposed to be time limited, it would have been reasonable to leave it until there was something (anything) to replace it.

To make matters worse they tucked the notice in an aside to a downtime notice like they were embarassed to admit it. How hard would it have been to actually post a message reminding people that the Daily Gold was a time limited deal that was expiring but reminding that VIP still get weekly rolls and other benefits and hopefully with a time line indicating when other benefits would be announced. That would be minimal damage control that would not have appeased many but at least kept some fans less peeved.


I have said something similar several times this past year only to get no info. IOW, don't hold your breath.


THIS is the IMO the biggest blunder we could have imagined. Once again, the player base gets left in the dark. Like I said in my 1st response "it will have consequences" The fall out is just beginning.

[ianflaer]

My subscription lapses on 14 Jan 2023. If the new VIP rewards/benefits package does not drop by then AND satisfy me with its value, I will not renew. the daily dice was nice but, in all honesty, it was not enough.

Right now what does VIP get me?

1. ability to open quests on any difficulty? lol who cares about that anymore? I will resubscribe for the duration of next hardcore, MAYBE, if I choose to play it.
2. a small (10% +1%/party member) XP bonus? ok but not nearly enough.
3. access to all the non-expansions and character classes and races? so what? I bought all those things previously and VIP actually prevents me from buying them and let's be honest here, there has been VERY LITTLE in the way of quest packs release recently that VIP get access to that are not FTP. Honestly SSG would do better to be truly FTP and find other perks for being VIP (I sincerely hope this is what you are doing)
4. 500 DDO points a month? ok, but that's a pittance really. I could, and often do, buy more and won't notice +/- a random 500 points.
5 "And more!" like what? "Priority server access?" really? the servers are ghost towns, what does this even mean? "DDO VIPs also receive the highest level of customer support" do we really need to talk again about how abysmal customer support has been lately? you know it, we know it, I know you are trying to fix it so I'd rather not harp on it, but to mention it as a perk to VIP? that's insulting.

my advice (because the military taught me a complaint that doesn't come with a solution is worthless at best)

first of all, please understand that timeliness is important, and you are already late. *Puts on Chief Hat* Early is ON TIME, on time is late, late is unacceptable. Remember it is ok for you to wait on others, but you should never force others to wait on you. You have had all year to work on this, get the lead out.

1 make the game truly Free to Play. Any non-expansion content that is older than 1 year (maybe 2) should be free to play for everyone. your pack codes you gave out these last two years were a great example of where the game should go. while those codes were active new player on-boarding was a JOY since they have lapsed it is a sad trek. I'm sure you know the value of new players, you need to do everything possible to make them choosing to stay with the game as easy and enticing as possible.

2 Your move to make so many classes free to play was good and I commend you for it, now make a bunch of the new archetypes and charge money for them. this is a good move in my opinion. VIP don't need access to the archetypes. this goes along with point one as it makes the new player experience more interesting and exciting.

3 the XP bonus is a good idea, give VIP's more. +5% per party member would be good. the current 1% is week

4 daily gold rolls were something everyone liked and should continue. honestly it feels like an easy win for you to me. it can't cost you much of anything and created lots of good will

5 take a look at how much a VIP pays per month and then look at how many months typically go between release of expansions and give VIPs a discount on expansions that covers most but not all of that money. that way you guys make a little extra and we get a discount for our continued support.

6 open all quest difficulties and a little extra bank space as you had already are good benefits, please keep them, just know that by themselves they are not enough.

7 the 500 store points. . . I feel like this doesn't even matter, instead how about give VIPs a bonus on how many store points they earn through favor.

I would buy this package less than this . . . unlikely

Finally, I really love this game and WANT to support it. I WANT to give you my money, but I have to get SOMETHING in return. I buy the expansions and lately I have been buying the Ulitmate bundles because I have liked what you put in them. that's a lot of money though and it is hard to afford. VIP does not sweeten the deal enough as it is now. I will continue to support this game by buying content I like and will only pay for VIP when there is something there to justify my expense.

[Cadveen]

I have been paying since the beginning. I won’t be back until there is a wizard archetype or revamp. See you in a few years I guess.

[Phoenicis]

NOTE: The 2022 VIP Daily Gold Roll will no longer be available after this downtime.

Goodbye daily gold, my wife and I shall miss you.

My wife is actually kinda relieved, we don't need to log into every server every day trying to get that nightmare

[Sylvado]

The XP probably doesn't really hurt Box sales by any appreciable amount. But think of all the lost Bigby's Hand sales caused by free rolls!

I suspect store sales took a big hit from daily rolls. I know I picked up a lot of things I don't need to buy now.

[mbartol]

couldn't care less

Though the correct phrase is “couldn’t” they may have been right to use “could.”
I’m sure SSG could rise (shrink?) to the challenge—don’t tempt them.

[mbartol]

What happened to Tolero?

Well, the game runs along without any testing, quality assurance, marketing, advertising, or support.
Why not try without management as well?

[Pandjed]

As this has (d)evolved to a *fix VIP-thread*, I guess I give my two cents as well.

First, I'm a VIP and I don't plan on quitting, as I want to support the game and the developers, as I sink so many hours into this game that you should question my life choices, and I won't act up like a greedy child, because I want everything free without thinking of how people needs to pay their bills.

Second, I'm aware that we got the daily gold roll as a shorthand for making several classes and races free, trying to repay what you took from the VIP worth while also giving us ample time to cancel our subscription in case we think it's under the worth we're ready to pay after the year is up.

Now let's start with how I can think you could redeem VIP-status.

The premise is to make people feel important, give them benefits that mirrors their use of real money, and that aren't very hard to code, using similar mechanics the game already has.

First keyword is exclusivity. Getting access to bonuses and things no other can is the mark of being treated as a VIP.
Second keyword is advertisement. Make it easy for VIP to show off, which makes people get the wish of getting a subscription as well. Also, think about how these VIPs (many of them advertising DDO to their friends) can make it easier for new players to tag along.
Third keyword is improvement. Being a VIP should improve how the game works for you.

With these three keywords, I would use the following ideas to add to the current VIP:
1.) Give any VIP one free loot-reroll per chest.
* This will skyrocket your subscriptions whenever there is a new adventure pack and expansion, as buying shards does quickly get into the DDO points, and the 500 per months won't cover it well enough, leading to only buy shards when it's absolutely time-saving and within their means. And in this case, they will still buy shards, even with a single free reroll.
* Reaper item farmers (many of them probably VIPs already) will feel like you care about them, especially after several changes to gamerules that nuked several builds
* An experienced player will take subscriptions to help out a pal they invited to the game to get the good items easier, and said pal may think of a VIP subscription as well to diuble the benefit
* This also improves guild and lfm farming runs, as suddenly farming runs become at least twice as reliable
* If this free reroll would also apply to raid chests (which is a big maybe), this would work well together with idea 2

2.) Shorten the raid timer (maybe to 24 hours)
* If you get to do every raid once per day, the number of raid groups will shoot up, farming gear would be easier, and once again, you feel among a special crowd
* This will cut into the sales of raid timers... well, how many raid timers are bought directly after buying DDO points? Run the data

3.) Make quest guest passes obsolete!
* Imagine how cool it would feel, if you are so VIP, that you basically can get your friends into a highly asked club? That's it, make it so, that people in your party (as long as you're the leader) can open quest packs as if they were VIP
* Important would be to make other benefits of being VIP so good, that it doesn't feel like the F2P players just sponge of you
* Again a good mechanic to introduce DDO to a friend, as you then can run middle to high heroics without repeating quests
* Alternatively, you could make an NPC, which gives you one blank quest pass per day which you could gift someone else, as a "ticket to the club"

4.) Give the +5% bonus for heroic inspiration without an item
* Voice of the Master? Dungeon Master's gift? That's for those who don't have it better. True VIPs can use any gear they want without going out of their way to ensure that they have an item with heroic inspiration on them
* It combines well with the chest rerolls, as you not only get access to more loot of your chosing, but also take a small yet still feelable restriction away

5.) Randall knows VIPs
* Imagine buying augments at lesser cost from Randall, as a man of his format surely knows who is among the crowd. Add two new options like "Give me a discount as a VIP on heroic/epic/legendary augments
* If trading them is a concern, make those augments BtA

This is just to name a few possible ideas, that may be interesting to consider, as some of them doesn't even upset the game balance much. It's not about being powerful, it's about feeling important, to feel a bit above the rest in benefits.

[Tap4black]

2 VIP subscriptions terminated.

This company just doesn't get it, care, or both............

[FixBows]

First, I'm a VIP and I don't plan on quitting, as I want to support the game and the developers, as I sink so many hours into this game that you should question my life choices, and I won't act up like a greedy child, because I want everything free without thinking of how people needs to pay their bills.

Second, I'm aware that we got the daily gold roll as a shorthand for making several classes and races free, trying to repay what you took from the VIP worth while also giving us ample time to cancel our subscription in case we think it's under the worth we're ready to pay after the year is up.


Couple of things here... First, not really greedy children since they gave this as a stop gap from the last time they mentioned doing something more for our VIP subscription. How is wanting what is promised being greedy? Not following that one. Second, not being able to pay their bills? Really? I am sorry, but if the business model does not support making a profit because of the lack of revenue from daily gold rolls being free to subscribers (not everyone mind you) then they need to shut it down. No business, outside of maybe major league sports teams for ultra-elite rich folks to get a tax write off from their REAL businesses, operate at a loss on purpose. Lastly, your statement about giving us ample time is kind only 1/2 true. You are free to cancel at any time, you do not need ample time, or really any specific amount of time beyond a few clicks of the mouse. What a lot of folks were expecting, and what was alluded to last year when they started this time bomb, is that there would be what was stated... a better VIP experience with more value. They are the ones who were given ample time and have made a business decision to yet again treat their subscribes like trash.

I honestly think that the issue here is not the gold rolls, it is how SSG continues to say one thing and deliver the opposite and treat the backbone of this game, its VIP subscribers, like garbage.

[ahpook]

I rolled my free daily gold last night. Just now, I had another free Gold Roll. So was this the free weekly gold roll? or did they forget to remove the free daily? or did SSG recant and decide to leave free daily's in place without mentioning it?

[Wahnsinnig]

The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging. We know you enjoyed this benefit for the past year, and we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.

Your post is absolutely ridiculous.

You, Severlin and Tolero has been talking about adding value to VIP for several years, all you have come up with was daily gold rolls. Now you have taken that away.

Great value indeed.

[rayworks]

UPDATE: The game worlds have reopened.

The DDO game worlds will be unavailable on Wednesday, January 4th from 9:00 AM - 12:00 PM Eastern (-5 GMT) for weekly maintenance. NOTE: The 2022 VIP Daily Gold Roll will no longer be available after this downtime. Thank you for your patience, and we will see you back in the game soon!


So what is replacing it? IIRC, Tolero said VIP was gonna be sweetened.

[Qeistalan]

I honestly think that the issue here is not the gold rolls, it is how SSG continues to say one thing and deliver the opposite and treat the backbone of this game, its VIP subscribers, like garbage.

This.
Always THIS.
If ever there's a constant in the universe, THIS.

[folkari]

I was going to re-sub to get that daily gold roll and stock up on some xp gems for TR purposes. This saved me some cash I guess. This is basically the only reason to sub for me.

[rayworks]

The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging. We know you enjoyed this benefit for the past year, and we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.

Seems like you should have had a plan in place to replace them as soon as you stopped them. You had almost a year to find something and you failed miserably. Not surprising, but still, disappointing.

[thegreatcthulhu]

The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging. We know you enjoyed this benefit for the past year, and we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.

That makes sense, I'm looking forward to what 2023 brings for all of us.

Let us know when you have more to share. :)

[ahpook]

That makes sense, I'm looking forward to what 2023 brings for all of us.

Let us know when you have more to share. :)

Such supportive pleasantry is very un-Cthulu like. Unless you are trying to lure Cordovan in to suck his brains. Are you trying to lure Cordovan to suck his brains? :)

[Pandjed]

How is wanting what is promised being greedy? Not following that one.

Then show me, where they said: "When you subscribe you get a gold roll every day." What I remember is "We will give VIPs free gold rolls for the remainder of the year." Where is the difference? The first one is a promise. The second one is an announcement.

Of course, SSG doesn't promise stuff, because even now they get backlash despite never promising anything, so how much s would they get, if they actually promise something they can't know they can hold? That's also why there is so much obscurity in the process, because every time any biggish change happens people scream "unsubscribe, unsubcribe", be it as a threat, be it as a resignation, or be it as a tantrum.
Seriously, you can just silently unsubscribe and decide to continue the game or cancel it. Or just take a day or two to sort the feelings and try some constructive commentary. Of course I get emotional at times too, but I won't act like this is mature or reasonable.

There were a lots of talks about improving VIP and such, but talks are just words. Taking them as some kind of promises seems a bit too much like overcommitting to me.



Second, not being able to pay their bills?
I never said 'able to pay they bills'. I said, 'need to pay their bills'. If you can't accept that business model, unsubscribe and don't rant or lash out to people because they somehow were able to rub you the wrong way.

From my POV, I play this game quite a lot, and when I use a service a lot, I'm ready and willing to pay the service. That DDO happens to be free at its base is a nice bonus, but as I personally won't work for free, I'm also willing to just spend some money for something I'm using. I won't act like I owe something and therefore that someone is entitled to me to provide me with anything I want.
The moment where I don't get the enjoyment from it, I will cancel my subscription and call the fun I had until then 'well invested'. But over no daily gold rolls, despite not having them years before, just returning to how I experienced the game before the daily gold rolls became a thing? I was never that despaired over my VIP status.

[Impaqt]

disappointing to see absolutely no response to our concerns in this matter.

[Arkat]

disappointing to see absolutely no response to our concerns in this matter.

It appears the Community Manager (or his boss) painted the company into a corner, so to speak, and now the company has to figure a way out of that corner.

The problem is they had 10 months (or a whole heck of a lot longer, depending on who you ask) to do so, but, so far, haven't done it.

[Retsam]

Seems like you should have had a plan in place to replace them as soon as you stopped them. You had almost a year to find something and you failed miserably. Not surprising, but still, disappointing.

Assume the plan is to torpedo VIP's for 1-2 months and allow fallout - then start an email/ad campaign and announce a New expansion, VIP benefits, and some nice cookie to bait the 12 month sub folks right around the anniversary, to make the spreadsheets look like they're trending upwards after the announcement.

Basically, you need to kill the beast (VIP gold roll) and let it bleed out before announcing the replacement system, because no bonus being in place makes anything better in comparison.

It is crappy marketing tactics. Quit it. --

[Arkat]

Assume the plan is to torpedo VIP's for 1-2 months and allow fallout - then start an email/ad campaign and announce a New expansion, VIP benefits, and some nice cookie to bait the 12 month sub folks right around the anniversary, to make the spreadsheets look like they're trending upwards after the announcement.

Basically, you need to kill the beast (VIP gold roll) and let it bleed out before announcing the replacement system, because no bonus being in place makes anything better in comparison.

It is crappy marketing tactics. Quit it. --

https://media0.giphy.com/media/UKqZSSEgl7hDO/giphy.gif

[thegreatcthulhu]

Such supportive pleasantry is very un-Cthulu like. Unless you are trying to lure Cordovan in to suck his brains. Are you trying to lure Cordovan to suck his brains? :)

Brains does sound deli- I mean, of course not. I ensure you; I go to the same restaurants and psionic practitioners as Fred.

[Loholt-UK]

The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging. We know you enjoyed this benefit for the past year, and we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great. We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit and once we have more to share we will let you know.

TL:DR and I'm sure someone has probably already said this but:

These words you wrote just don't make any truthful sense.

"we remain committed to making sure our VIP benefits remain great" but they haven't remained anything have they? They have in actual fact completely failed to remain because "The end of the Gold Rolls with the end of 2022 is expected and in-line with our previous messaging."

"We're always looking for ways to add value to our VIP benefit" presumably by removing benefits and replacing them with nothing.

"once we have more to share we will let you know." it's already too late for this. You put the cart before the horse and the damage is done.

I'm sure that you can see now that a huge error on your part has been made by the amount of posts all saying the same thing (apart from the obvious sycophantic fanbois who just can't help themselves) but it's not the first time you've made this error so it's now apparent that either you don't learn from your mistakes or that you just don't care. I myself am beyond caring which of these damnable traits is true.

You need to get better at every interaction you ever make with your customer base and you need to do it years ago.

[Antheal]

disappointing to see absolutely no response to our concerns in this matter.

But not at all surprising. Par for the course, really.

[dunklezhan]

DRUID OWLBEAR FORM... most important work.

Also MECHANICAL SPIDER PET FOR ARTIFICER and also THERAPOD MOUN- wait they did that last one.

TRICERATOPS MOUNT. Need. It doesn't have to be fast. It just has to make me immune to arrow fire from the front so I can charge down archer chokepoints. ...Get them, Beaky!! [Beaky the Triceratops moos enthusiastically]

[dunklezhan]

Probably a bit, I have gotten a +1 racial AP tome, a 1 to 2 racial AP tome and 2 +2 racial AP tomes, a +7 charisma tome, somewhere around 40 major slayer pots, 30% XP elixirs and more.

Yes but how many of those things would you ever have ponied up and bought? Cos other than those last two I simply wouldn't unless they were on at least 50% sale - I'm not sinking that many points on a single thing unless it's content.

I have no idea how 'usual' I am. I just mean that the daily rolls have got me some very valuable things I would just... not have otherwise. So it's not hurt the store sales really at all for someone like me. Taking away the daily gold roll will certainly not result in more cash from me. In fact, I think I've spent more this last year since getting the gold roll than not, becauseI've had so many xp pots of various flavours - when they run out I'm bereft and frequently go buy an extra sneaky top up from the store like the filthy XP addict that I am. So cutting it... well it'll put far fewer shinies under my nose to be aware of, so I will be saving cash.

Hurrah! I rescind all objection. Remove the gold roll, my wallet needs the help and clearly SSG don't want the cash.

[Stradivarius]

STOP trying to jump to conclusions.

A.)I'm almost 99% certain they are going to make gold rolls a permanent thing for VIP. It's honestly easy and doesn't really detract from the business (may even help it because it gives people a little taste of XP pots and other goodies found in the store)

B.) More content access. This is probably a 100% as seeing how after the codes VIP has absolutely no difference in terms of content access (and you still can't access older content like shadowfell, ravenloft, MoTU which have all been given out for free).

C.) VIP "fast response" and "priority seating". Better and faster response rate from SSG if you are VIP. Ahead of the line when a queue exists for anything (login/events/etc.)

[Loromir]

Then show me, where they said: "When you subscribe you get a gold roll every day." What I remember is "We will give VIPs free gold rolls for the remainder of the year." Where is the difference? The first one is a promise. The second one is an announcement.



What you remember is "partially correct". They also added that they were planning some new and improved VIP benefits....that sadly have not come to fruition. This is the crux of the problem. They need to follow through with part 2 of the promise. This is why you hear the wailing from the community....and justly so.

I've been VIP since 2010....never once considered un-subbing. Now, I'm just not sure.

[Loromir]

STOP trying to jump to conclusions.

A.)I'm almost 99% certain they are going to make gold rolls a permanent thing for VIP. It's honestly easy and doesn't really detract from the business (may even help it because it gives people a little taste of XP pots and other goodies found in the store)

B.) More content access. This is probably a 100% as seeing how after the codes VIP has absolutely no difference in terms of content access (and you still can't access older content like shadowfell, ravenloft, MoTU which have all been given out for free).

C.) VIP "fast response" and "priority seating". Better and faster response rate from SSG if you are VIP. Ahead of the line when a queue exists for anything (login/events/etc.)


What??? I don't understand anything you just said.

[FixBows]

STOP trying to jump to conclusions.

A.)I'm almost 99% certain they are going to make gold rolls a permanent thing for VIP. It's honestly easy and doesn't really detract from the business (may even help it because it gives people a little taste of XP pots and other goodies found in the store)

B.) More content access. This is probably a 100% as seeing how after the codes VIP has absolutely no difference in terms of content access (and you still can't access older content like shadowfell, ravenloft, MoTU which have all been given out for free).

C.) VIP "fast response" and "priority seating". Better and faster response rate from SSG if you are VIP. Ahead of the line when a queue exists for anything (login/events/etc.)

The issue is that they already took something away with no mention of anything positive for VIPs. Waiting for a Prodcuer's letter is not going to cut it in this case. If all will be explained at the time the Prod Letter comes out, then maybe they should have waited to remove daily gold rolls for VIPs until they have something to announce? Seems rather simple and not sure why SSG doesn't get how poorly they are treating their subscription (dedicated) customers.

Point A is a guess at best... maybe a hope. Points B and C are actually funny since they no longer have any in game support and submitting a ticket may or may not even get looked at, let alone addressed anytime soon. Point C, well there has not been a wait to join anything in this game since like May 2006.

[ahpook]

I rolled my free daily gold last night. Just now, I had another free Gold Roll. So was this the free weekly gold roll? or did they forget to remove the free daily? or did SSG recant and decide to leave free daily's in place without mentioning it?

Again this AM, I had a free gold roll. So it is not weekly. Which means either
- they forgot to turn it off,
- they changed their minds without saying anything,
- I am really confused, or
- I have some extra special VIP status (not likely).

Any ideas?

[GoldyGopher]

Again this AM, I had a free gold roll. So it is not weekly. Which means either
- they forgot to turn it off,
- they changed their minds without saying anything,
- I am really confused, or
- I have some extra special VIP status (not likely).

Any ideas?

If you rolled your Gold Roll Yesterday before the server restart, that roll was a part of the daily Gold Roll Cycle.
SSG turns of Daily Gold Roll and reverts to Weekly Gold Roll. Weekly Gold Roll Cycle is up. Last Weekly Gold Roll was in February (or before).
You account is eligible for a Weekly Gold Roll.

My working hypothesis.

If no Gold Roll tomorrow we know my hypothesis has credibility.

[Kaliya]

If you rolled your Gold Roll Yesterday before the server restart, that roll was a part of the daily Gold Roll Cycle.
SSG turns of Daily Gold Roll and reverts to Weekly Gold Roll. Weekly Gold Roll Cycle is up. Last Weekly Gold Roll was in February (or before).
You account is eligible for a Weekly Gold Roll.

My working hypothesis.

If no Gold Roll tomorrow we know my hypothesis has credibility.

Rolled Gold (mmm, pretzels) AFTER server restarts yesterday. Rolled Gold this a.m. as well.

Will be interesting to see if available manana.

[ahpook]

If you rolled your Gold Roll Yesterday before the server restart, that roll was a part of the daily Gold Roll Cycle.
SSG turns of Daily Gold Roll and reverts to Weekly Gold Roll. Weekly Gold Roll Cycle is up. Last Weekly Gold Roll was in February (or before).
You account is eligible for a Weekly Gold Roll.

My working hypothesis.

If no Gold Roll tomorrow we know my hypothesis has credibility.

I got a free gold roll Tuesday night. I got a free gold roll Wed Afternoon after the restart. I got a free gold roll this morning so it is more frequent than weekly.

[Captain_Wizbang]

If you rolled your Gold Roll Yesterday before the server restart, that roll was a part of the daily Gold Roll Cycle.
SSG turns of Daily Gold Roll and reverts to Weekly Gold Roll. Weekly Gold Roll Cycle is up. Last Weekly Gold Roll was in February (or before).
You account is eligible for a Weekly Gold Roll.

My working hypothesis.

If no Gold Roll tomorrow we know my hypothesis has credibility.

Just had daily gold rolls on 2 servers. hmmm

[raclaw]

server reset is a counter gold roll restart

[Captain_Wizbang]

server reset is a counter gold roll restart

ok, ty. So I rolled my dailies after the restart yesterday, and still had them today. hence my new ty thread.

[Qeistalan]

If you rolled your Gold Roll Yesterday before the server restart, that roll was a part of the daily Gold Roll Cycle.
SSG turns of Daily Gold Roll and reverts to Weekly Gold Roll. Weekly Gold Roll Cycle is up. Last Weekly Gold Roll was in February (or before).
You account is eligible for a Weekly Gold Roll.

My working hypothesis.

If no Gold Roll tomorrow we know my hypothesis has credibility.

Occurring on both Ghallanda and Hardcore servers:

I had a Gold roll Wed Jan 4th before restart, approx 7am Central time.
I logged on Wed Jan 4th approx 3:30pm Central time, and had a new Gold roll.
I logged on Thurs Jan 5th approx 7:30am Central time, and had a new Gold roll.


It appears SSG did not shut-off Daily Gold rolls with the Wed restart on Jan 4th.

Whomever is responsible for "official" SSG Communications to players: GIT GUUD.

[Sylvado]

server reset is a counter gold roll restart

That was my thought but now there are reports of a second gold roll since the restart.

[Monalisa]

Just had daily gold rolls on 2 servers. hmmm

Servers are not behaving equally.

HC still has NR running.

I forgot which server, but a server has bonus XP compared to other servers.

Would not be the first time SSG left something turned on for longer than they said something would be turned on. The buddy bonus worked past the usual Monday morning for an extra few days last month.

[Qeistalan]

Occurring on both Ghallanda and Hardcore servers:

I had a Gold roll Wed Jan 4th before restart, approx 7am Central time.
I logged on Wed Jan 4th approx 3:30pm Central time, and had a new Gold roll.
I logged on Thurs Jan 5th approx 7:30am Central time, and had a new Gold roll.


It appears SSG did not shut-off Daily Gold rolls with the Wed restart on Jan 4th.

Whomever is responsible for "official" SSG Communications to players: GIT GUUD.

I logged on Friday Jan 6th approx 7:15am Central time, but I DID NOT have a new Gold roll available.

SSG: You have failed your VIP players. Get your house in-order now.

[GoldyGopher]

I logged on Friday Jan 6th approx 7:15am Central time, but I DID NOT have a new Gold roll available.

SSG: You have failed your VIP players. Get your house in-order now.

This is what I suspected would be the case.

<shrug>

[Captain_Wizbang]

This is what I suspected would be the case.

<shrug>


same here. No daily gold rolls today. sub ends on the 15th, not renewing. I'm tired of this companies nonsense.

[Qeistalan]

same here. No daily gold rolls today. sub ends on the 15th, not renewing. I'm tired of this companies nonsense.

+1

My VIP expires 1/16/2023. I have already deleted all my CCs from the DDO Store.

I refuse to give one cent more to this game until I see genuine value for money invested.

[Phoenicis]

+1

My VIP expires 1/16/2023. I have already deleted all my CCs from the DDO Store.

I refuse to give one cent more to this game until I see genuine value for money invested.

You are not investing. You are (or are not) paying for entertainment.

If you don't find the benefits of VIP to be worth $10 a month (Less if you have an annual subscription) then fine. Don't subscribe.

I guess the thing I find disturbing? Annoying? Not sure what the right word is, but the 'I quit subscribing' posts. SSG knows, no one else needs to.

And Yes, replying to this post validates his attention seeking. I've just seen so much of it recently it annoyed the bejeebus outta me.

As for me, my VIP will expire when they shut down the servers. There are no other games out there that I keep coming back to time after time after time, and I've at least tried the vast majority. Nothing scratches the itch like DDO.

[Qeistalan]

And Yes, replying to this post validates his attention seeking. I've just seen so much of it recently it annoyed the bejeebus outta me.

I'll respond to your post to validate your attention seeking.

Quid pro quo, t!t for tat ... whatever.

[Stradivarius]

You are not investing. You are (or are not) paying for entertainment.

If you don't find the benefits of VIP to be worth $10 a month (Less if you have an annual subscription) then fine. Don't subscribe.

I guess the thing I find disturbing? Annoying? Not sure what the right word is, but the 'I quit subscribing' posts. SSG knows, no one else needs to.

And Yes, replying to this post validates his attention seeking. I've just seen so much of it recently it annoyed the bejeebus outta me.

As for me, my VIP will expire when they shut down the servers. There are no other games out there that I keep coming back to time after time after time, and I've at least tried the vast majority. Nothing scratches the itch like DDO.

To be fair you kinda are "investing" for a game like this. I've had long term real estate investments mature in less time than playing this game.

And frankly that's what they're selling, a lot of people (not all but a lot) are playing (and not moving onto another more shiny game or whatever) because of the "sunk cost" principle.

Bottom line. Wait for Tolero's producer letter. She will address the VIP issue then and there (as promised).

[Stimulus]

I suspect they'll reinstate gold rolls after the furor has died down.

They'll give back what you already had, and many will forget that there still hasn't been anything added to make VIP worth paying for.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Bottom line. Wait for Tolero's producer letter. She will address the VIP issue then and there (as promised).

That's a laugh. They've had all of 2022 to address this, and not a word. You might be ok for a Feb letter to have whatever changes being made to become active in March.
SSG has lost the confidence of the player base.

[gravisrs]

So if you used DDOFREEQUESTS, bought expansion packs, and now have most of the races free to play why bother VIP?

[Arkat]

So if you used DDOFREEQUESTS, bought expansion packs, and now have most of the races free to play why bother VIP?

There were at least three other reasons to be a VIP:

1. Free Gold Rolls

2. 500 DDO points/month

3. Able to open up any quest on Elite straight away without having to do them on Normal and then Hard first