U57; Poisoned Coating

[lukshad]

Hello! So I've been working on this homebrew build for about three years now, if not longer, dubbed the 'AlcheFist'
It's an 18/2 Alchemist/Monk split using handwraps, Vile Chemist and utilizing reactions to be both tanky and have the DCs for CC spells.
An all-rounder, really. Can help support via CCs, off-tank via Ki Shout/Unyielding Sentinel things, can off-heal using Curative Admixture:Heal/Renewal.
Definitely not 'meta' worthy, but I liked it. I *loved* it.
The new Poisoned Coating from U57 is now only compatible with Simple weapons. Worked with Handwraps and everything else before.
Is there any chance that you could fix this/make an exception/give a workaround (even if it cost me a feat [I'm desperate]).
Any response at all would be highly appreciated!



-LeviReed (Lukle)

[Strider1963]

Ah,bug #1 already. Can't wait for the rest :-)

[Zhyano]

I think there should simply be less restrictions on these imbues, that will ultimately only hurt build diversity

#openUpVileChemist :D

[Stravix]

Ah,bug #1 already. Can't wait for the rest :-)

Did you read what they said? It's not a bug, Handwraps aren't simple weapons.

[lukshad]

I think there should simply be less restrictions on these imbues, that will ultimately only hurt build diversity

#openUpVileChemist :D



Zhyano has a really good point; it's so good that it actually made me feel selfish for only thinking of myself.
Since 'Imbue' is the star player in this update, having the (very much so) unplayed Vile Chemist tree has actually just become even less desirable to other people.
Eldritch Knight's imbues are going to be even more welcoming to players now since there is a hefty gap between weapon compatibilities.

[cmecu]

I think there should simply be less restrictions on these imbues, that will ultimately only hurt build diversity

#openUpVileChemist :D

Thats the problem, they are building on top of a game that already has issues.. and the more stuff they keep changing and adding, its just compounding the current issues and then adding more on top of it. I dont even know what game I am playing anymore.
Maybe its just that time.....

[lukshad]

Are you allowed to 'bump' threads?
I'm really not used to forums/threads and all that. If there's etiquette, I don't know it. :)

[lukshad]

Bedtime Bump :)

[lukshad]

Hello! So I've been working on this homebrew build for about three years now, if not longer, dubbed the 'AlcheFist'
It's an 18/2 Alchemist/Monk split using handwraps, Vile Chemist and utilizing reactions to be both tanky and have the DCs for CC spells.
An all-rounder, really. Can help support via CCs, off-tank via Ki Shout/Unyielding Sentinel things, can off-heal using Curative Admixture:Heal/Renewal.
Definitely not 'meta' worthy, but I liked it. I *loved* it.
The new Poisoned Coating from U57 is now only compatible with Simple weapons. Worked with Handwraps and everything else before.
Is there any chance that you could fix this/make an exception/give a workaround (even if it cost me a feat [I'm desperate]).
Any response at all would be highly appreciated!



-LeviReed (Lukle)

U57/Poisoned Coating

[Arkat]

U57/Poisoned Coating

Seriously dude, file a bug report.

[Phoenicis]

Seriously dude, file a bug report.

I don't currently have an alch so I can't log in and check, BUT if the imbue says simple weapons then it isn't a bug. Handwraps are exotic, not simple.

BUT, a staff is a simple weapon, and the henshin monk tree has +imbue dice in all it's cores...

[Hobgoblin51]

Seriously dude, file a bug report.

its not a bug. he knows its not a bug. why would he file a bug report for notabug?

do you even read bro

[Oxarhamar]

Seriously dude, file a bug report.

It’s not a bug it’s WAI they are asking for it to be expanded beyond simple weapons

What does filing bug report about something that is working accomplish?

[Arkat]

It’s not a bug it’s WAI they are asking for it to be expanded beyond simple weapons

What does filing bug report about something that is working accomplish?

The OP was complaining like it was a bug.

I figured rather than just bumping the complaint, they should do something else about it. They CLEARLY wasn't listening to the other posters in this thread.

Suggesting they file a bug report seemed like a good way to re-direct their actions away from just bumping this thread.

[Oxarhamar]

The OP was complaining like it was a bug.

I figured rather than just bumping the complaint, he should do something else about it. He CLEARLY wasn't listening to the other posters in this thread.

Suggesting they file a bug report seemed like a good way to re-direct their actions away from just bumping this thread.

The OP was neither complaining nor did they call it a bug

You bumped the thread when you told them to file a frivolous bug report

It’s legitimate feedback something that worked before the update but no longer and is not broken they asked for it to be looked at making it work again

[Hobgoblin51]

The new Poisoned Coating from U57 is now only compatible with Simple weapons. Worked with Handwraps and everything else before.
Is there any chance that you could fix this/make an exception/give a workaround (even if it cost me a feat [I'm desperate]).
Any response at all would be highly appreciated!



-LeviReed (Lukle)


The OP was complaining like it was a bug.

seeth the aboveth

he admitted it was wai. he said the build was ruined. he asked for a workaround. he even did it politely. he didnt even say anything about their mums combat boots.


doesnt seem like he said anything about a bug....

[Arkat]

Ok, whatever. :rolleyes:

[lukshad]

Morning bump!
I miss ddo!

[Strider1963]

Did you read what they said? It's not a bug, Handwraps aren't simple weapons.

If it worked before the update and it doesnt work now, then it's either a bug or a nerf. i just prefer to call it a bug :-)

[misterski]

If it worked before the update and it doesnt work now, then it's either a bug or a nerf. i just prefer to call it a bug :-)

Not in this case. Several imbues had their requirements changed in U57, such as Slayer of Evil in KoTC and Poisoned Coating.

[Syrrah]

Got to agree with OP on this one, Poisoned Coating feels too restricted. It used to be the best thing about Alchemist.

Maybe expand it in the cores:
Core 4: Poisoned Coating now also works with Martial weapons the user is proficient in.
Core 5: Poisoned Coating now works with all weapons the user is proficient in.

Or else add a multi-selector in Tier 5 (expand Chemical Weapon perhaps):
Either take Chemical weapon (as it now is).
Or take Chemical Body (as it now is).
Or allow to add one weapon type that will work with Poisoned Coating from now on ?* la the Kensai weapon picker (thus missing out on the regular bonus from Chemical Weapon).

[misterski]

Got to agree with OP on this one, Poisoned Coating feels too restricted. It used to be the best thing about Alchemist.

Maybe expand it in the cores:
Core 4: Poisoned Coating now also works with Martial weapons the user is proficient in.
Core 5: Poisoned Coating now works with all weapons the user is proficient in.

Or else add a multi-selector in Tier 5 (expand Chemical Weapon perhaps):
Either take Chemical weapon (as it now is).
Or take Chemical Body (as it now is).
Or allow to add one weapon type that will work with Poisoned Coating from now on ?* la the Kensai weapon picker (thus missing out on the regular bonus from Chemical Weapon).

You shouldn't have to spend more AP just to make it more useable. There are plenty of imbues in other trees that don't have any restrictions on their usage. I understand why the changes were made (thematic) but it does reduce build possibilities. Slayer of Evil used to be usable with any weapon but now it's just favored weapons, which was a thematic change.

[lukshad]

It's my day off and I just wanted to swing by and give a lil' bump.
I hope that everyone is doing well, and are excited for Thanksgiving!
I have to work that day, but guess what? This Wednesday, the 16th, my turkey outfit from amazon will come in. If you have to work a holiday, might as well have fun with it :D

Just don't try to deep fry me.

[Bjond]

18/2 Alchemist/Monk split using handwraps [..] new Poisoned Coating from U57 is now only compatible with Simple weapons

I dislike the way U57 trashed build diversity, particularly with the melee HP changes. We did warn them over and over about this kind of thing happening in the Lam threads. Didn't seem to sink in, though.


BUT, a staff is a simple weapon, and the henshin monk tree has +imbue dice

Staff is one of the least suitable weapons for an imbue build due to low rate of attack compared to SWF, TWF, Throwing, Shuriken, or Repeaters. It also plays a LOT differently than handwraps.

If you'd like a similar-playing build to handwraps with simple weapons, try TWF/VKF daggers. Likely your build and all gear can be used as-is. Shift some handwrap AP to VKF for centered daggers and swap a pair of daggers for your wraps and you'll be good (many have lots of Baba Runes & pain+suffering are still v.nice).

If you're dead-set on handwraps with imbues, consider a Sacred Fist + Dark Apostate. I haven't looked at it closely, but those two seem to fit. Lots of extra imbue dice. Lots of imbues that require favored weapons. SF gets favored-wraps. Looks like it could be highly tunable for support v dps v tank, too. Something like that would be a 100% rebuild from your current one, though. ; ;

[droid327]

Yeah I think the restriction on VC imbue is because they get an immune breaker in the tree, plus as many dice as an EK and then two more from G Elem Weaps. If it was any weapon, it'd be the best imbue in game.

The OP asked for workarounds - you can go dual daggers with VKF to center them, you can go dual sickles with prescient curve from gmof, or you can swap monk for sacred fist and use that imbue instead - or, really, you could /1 monk /1 XXX for any class with an imbue in their T1. Depends how much you value stances, since you get evasion from alch anyway. Though you probably want a spell power imbue...does any class have a T1 spell power imbue besides Apostate?

[lukshad]

So during my downtime at work today, I just kind of gave up on the idea of begging and decided to try to make something at least somewhat-similar to what I was doing before.
Imbues are everywhere after all, how hard could it be?

Well, the more I looked, the more restrictions I saw.

Sonic sounds cool! Maybe I can try the Swashbuckler imbue! Bards have access to CC and Healing, that's right up my alley!
Nope. Swashbuckler's imbue, unsurprisingly, requires you to be swashbuckling.

Oh hey, there's Warlock! I won't be able to heal my party, but I could tank and CC better I suppose! Besides, Light just sounds kind of cool!
Dang. There's nothing that really supports being a cloth-user, if I wanted to pick up wraps by either splashing 2 monk or using GMoF.

Battle Engineer got an imbue? And I read somewhere that Artis got Electricity-stripping things? Nice!

Ah, nevermind. That imbue requires you to be using a runearm. I get it, it's thematic just like the swashbuckler one.

Tiefling? Scoundrel imbue?
Nah, those require hp percentages to be in effect.

I mean, I'll keep looking. I think either going 20 or 18/2 wiz/monk and using ek might be my best bet, but it just makes me think that I'm going to end up having to roll down the funnel.
Used to be an optional thing, you know. Play cookie cutter and not worry about anything, or play homebrew and risk being criticized; with the latter, at least, I was super gung-ho on tweaking things over and over and over again on 30~ lives and 30~ renditions of that homebrew to make it into that super fun/special/competitive beast that it became.

I don't know. Maybe I'm being whiny. I just really, truly, feel like restrictions are getting thrown around.

Picture this: You're standing on this small piece of land, floating in an endless sea.
Extending from that small piece of land that you're on are countless bridges! They're all leading to more and more islands! You can choose just about whichever ones you want, but you need to accept the fact that you cannot turn back; the bridge you cross is the bridge you burn.
But that's alright! There are tons of new and fun things waiting for you!
Each subsequent island has its own new things, and once again has more and more bridges leading to more islands!
That's character creation in DnD 3.5/DDO for me.

When we get restrictions placed upon the game, to me at least, it feels like more and more of those bridges and islands are getting blacked out; you just don't have as many options on places to explore.

Dear DDO, please bring some bridges back. Not everyone wants to choose the same ones as everyone else. With too much weight, a bridge could even collapse.

[Bjond]

Maybe I'm being whiny. I just really, truly, feel like restrictions are getting thrown around.

Naw, it's not you. U57 trashed a ton of builds. Based on some earlier comments over on Lam they're intent on wholesale eliminations of a vast number of builds that employ play-styles they don't like. Nothing unbalancing or exploit'ish. It's pure emotional dislike driving it from what I can tell.

There are some other options for you to recover your build. If you can pick an imbue elsewhere, you can then play as Imbue X / Monk 2 / Alch 18-X.

For a full rebuild that can heal+(blast or melee), run 18 Druid / Monk 2 and play in elemental form. You don't get as many imbue dice, but you do get an immunity stripper so your cold or fire imbue would always apply. Druids have the best heals in the game, too.

I even laid one out with the builder: 17 Druid / 2 Monk / 1 Art (cuz I wanted it to trap, too). I discarded the effort because I was more interested in making a heal+tank druid and felt giving up throw-the-boom was too much. It takes a bit of mental accommodation, too. The tanking trees don't like caster-tanks.

But, it sounds like you want non-shield play. So, that kind of char might be a nice fit. Feats are scarce. You might have to choose between forms and fists.

[lukshad]

I'm still sad. I still miss my lovely homebrew.
:(