Any Chance of Re-Leveliing Tangleroot, Sorrow Dusk, and/or Thernal?

[Frezar14]

I feel like there are ample quests level 1-7 especially with the new content.

I do enjoy running Tangleroot and Sorrow Dusk but the back and forth has been too much for me lately and I end up just skipping them. Both of those carry on for 5 levels. How about tightening up those quests over 3 levels and have them go 8-10 or 10-12 range? I realize everyone's quest rotation is different but for me this quest level range is the most lacking. Also having reaper for Tangleroot would be great.

Threnal's quest levels just seems clunky to me to begin with. Maybe a better organization with the quest levels?

[GeneralDiomedes]

Threnal could have each chain the same level - west 8, east 9 south 10, and remove any requirement of which order you do them.

Sorrow dusk is not as bad, however removing the grey moon requirement would be most welcome.

Tanglerooot I think just tightening up the range and making it reaper would make it runnable again.

[Oxarhamar]

I feel like there are ample quests level 1-7 especially with the new content.

I do enjoy running Tangleroot and Sorrow Dusk but the back and forth has been too much for me lately and I end up just skipping them. Both of those carry on for 5 levels. How about tightening up those quests over 3 levels and have them go 8-10 or 10-12 range? I realize everyone's quest rotation is different but for me this quest level range is the most lacking. Also having reaper for Tangleroot would be great.

Threnal's quest levels just seems clunky to me to begin with. Maybe a better organization with the quest levels?

Yeah change the levels to be all one level would be great

Reaper Tangleroot yes please (I still don’t know why it wasn’t made Reaper

[tsotate]

Reaper Tangleroot yes please (I still don’t know why it wasn’t made Reaper
Probably because back when the decision was made, Fear reapers could spawn anywhere and their DOT hit the whole dungeon. No fun to get TPKed by something it's impossible to get to.

Nowadays, of course, that's been fixed, so they should just reaperize the chain.

[Wizard1406]

+1

Quest chains differening in level is a relic from before bravery and reaper, when quest base level didn't matter as much. Nowadays it would be nice if all chains had the same level, since it's makes sense to play them in one go.

So all of tangleroot like 6-7 (3-5 have more than enough quests already), all of Threnal like lvl 10 etc.

[helpfulguy1234]

Yeah, Threnal is the worst since the quests you have to run to do the south (which are level 9), some of those are 10. SD, TR and Threnal could definitely use some level adjustment. And yes please to reaper TR.

[slarden]

Solid suggestions.

The only thing I like about the way it is now is that I can run the level 3-6 quests on E as soon as I hit level 5 and get house p favor for buffs. If they increase the level I can probably do the same thing, but it depends if they also increase the difficulty which they often due when changing quests. I assume the reason they don't support reaper is the quests are so easy, but there are other quests around so that shouldn't hold them back.

[Xgya]

Probably because back when the decision was made, Fear reapers could spawn anywhere and their DOT hit the whole dungeon. No fun to get TPKed by something it's impossible to get to.

Nowadays, of course, that's been fixed, so they should just reaperize the chain.

I heard that back then it was because those lowbie quests are very fast, and though Reaper XP scales with quest length, these ones were on the TOO short end.
Now that most of the Reaper xp comes from LG content anyways, I don't doubt they could revert that decision.

[Oxarhamar]

I heard that back then it was because those lowbie quests are very fast, and though Reaper XP scales with quest length, these ones were on the TOO short end.
Now that most of the Reaper xp comes from LG content anyways, I don't doubt they could revert that decision.

I believe that to be a myth there are definitely shorter quests that are Reaper

[kmoustakas]

I feel like there are ample quests level 1-7 especially with the new content.

I do enjoy running Tangleroot and Sorrow Dusk but the back and forth has been too much for me lately and I end up just skipping them. Both of those carry on for 5 levels. How about tightening up those quests over 3 levels and have them go 8-10 or 10-12 range? I realize everyone's quest rotation is different but for me this quest level range is the most lacking. Also having reaper for Tangleroot would be great.

Threnal's quest levels just seems clunky to me to begin with. Maybe a better organization with the quest levels?

I'd settle for them updating the loot. Most of the named stuff from the old chains is geriatric now

[Halciet]

I'd settle for them updating the loot. Most of the named stuff from the old chains is geriatric now

These old chain end rewards are the only places to get certain random gen loot. If they redid the other chains like they did Delera's and Catacombs I might never run them again (outside of HCL)

[NemesisAlien]

I believe that to be a myth there are definitely shorter quests that are Reaper

Haverdasher R10 ;)

[Enoach]

Tangleroot
It is actually funny to think back-in-the-day we used to run this quest series all the way through starting it slightly over level and ending it being under level. It is just not run that way anymore as we tend to lean toward xp/min. I would not be against reviewing and tightening up the level range.

I don't ever recall any discussion on 'Too Short", but I do remember issues with Reapers since the entire dungeon is actually active even for quests that don't need to go the full of the map to complete. It was mainly the Fear Reaper, but I also believe there was an issue with spawning Reapers within walls. This may still be a problem even with Fear Reapers no longer affecting everything in the dungeon no matter where it is.


Sorrow Dusk
Similar to Tangleroot we also use to run this series from start to stop starting at level and ending running under level. I would not be against reviewing and tightening up the level range.


Thernal
This is the grandaddy of a progression mess and I agree with another poster this should be segmented to Western 8, Eastern 9 and Southern 10 (or similar). I also like the idea of allowing each to be seen as its own mini chain, but keep completing all 3 for the Series End Reward. But if that is not possible, please fix the potential of resetting the series progression by resetting Western/Eastern because the wrong option is picked in a dialog that comes up while ending that part of the series.

[Silverleafeon]

Teleporter guide(s) from the entrance of Ruins to the main quest giver(s), please, allow us to return easier-to-finish quest chains.


Teleporter guide from the entrance of Sorrow Dusk Island to Cult of the Six Quest Giver, please allow us to return quickly to finish the second chain.
Maybe move the Quest givers in this wilderness area much closer to the quest entrances, possibly split up in some cases?

[salmag]

Teleporter guide(s) from the entrance of Ruins to the main quest giver(s), please, allow us to return easier-to-finish quest chains.


Teleporter guide from the entrance of Sorrow Dusk Island to Cult of the Six Quest Giver, please allow us to return quickly to finish the second chain.
Maybe move the Quest givers in this wilderness area much closer to the quest entrances, possibly split up in some cases?

As a reward for Freeing the Grey Moon Ogres from the trolls (Grey Moon Waning), Bruku should offer to take you up to Hragg.

On topic, I agree these quests should be re-leveled.

Sorrowdusk
Grey Moon Waning - 6
CO6 - 7

Threnal
Western - 8
Eastern - 9
Southern - 10
side mini-quests - 8

Tangleroot
1-6 (up to/including Deadly Package) - 5
7-10 (Doom of the Witch Doctor & The Last Move) - 6

For Epic Levels they need to make these "Return to ..." quests.
- Visit the Dungeons one more time,
- Change the objectives
-- Sorrowdusk (4 new quests, same maps) - After the trolls and Co6 were defeated, a new threat arises (beholders, dragons, etc.) all level 24
-- Threnal (3 new quests, 1 West, 1 East, 1 south) - After dealing with Coyle, a new power hungry Demon arises (a new Pit Fiend, Marilith, etc.) all level 25
-- Tangleroot (3 new quests) - The Bugbears (from the other side of the Gorge) and the Trogs (from the valley) are making a power move for control and are openly challenging Ungurz. Battle throughout the Gorge. all level 26.

Just some ideas. I just don't want to re-run the same quests. Tweak them to make them a little different.

[Caarb]

Please dont. I cant be the only person that preferred Catacombs before the updates.

[ahpook]

I feel like there are ample quests level 1-7 especially with the new content.

I do enjoy running Tangleroot and Sorrow Dusk but the back and forth has been too much for me lately and I end up just skipping them. Both of those carry on for 5 levels. How about tightening up those quests over 3 levels and have them go 8-10 or 10-12 range? I realize everyone's quest rotation is different but for me this quest level range is the most lacking. Also having reaper for Tangleroot would be great.

Threnal's quest levels just seems clunky to me to begin with. Maybe a better organization with the quest levels?

I am in favor of this. No quest chain should span more than 2 levels. I would also include ShanToKor to reduce the level span and have it follow Waterworks in level. Heck, I will even suggest Ravenloft heroic get compressed as spanning 10 - 12 is too much**.


Please dont. I cant be the only person that preferred Catacombs before the updates.
You can be (but possibly are not). Only the library really changed to force a path from my recollection but that is more than compensated by not needing to run upstairs after every quest and shortening the trips to get between quests. I would take that risk to fix the other quests chains.


** It is too much because in story terms you are trapped in Barovia by Strahd and you need to complete the sequence to escape. However, the quests do not provide enough experience to get from 10 to 12 (and you have to leave to level). The level spread fights against the story line.

[Cordovan]

I heard that back then it was because those lowbie quests are very fast, and though Reaper XP scales with quest length, these ones were on the TOO short end.
Now that most of the Reaper xp comes from LG content anyways, I don't doubt they could revert that decision.


I believe that to be a myth there are definitely shorter quests that are Reaper

This was not the only consideration but it was a consideration. Especially when we first released Reaper difficulty there was a concern that adding it to Tangleroot would overly motivate people to grind through the quick quests there rather than engage with the rest of the game. Since it wasn't available, it's hard to say whether it would have been the case or not. Now that the feature has matured it would be nice to take a look at Tangleroot, but there are indeed a few quests that are less than a few minutes long in practice that might still be an issue. Are there shorter quests people could point to that offer Reaper difficulty? Maybe not shorter, but perhaps around the same length.

Improving the level range layout of Tangleroot, Sorrowdusk, and Threnal is something we'd love to do someday if we can carve out the time for it.

[ahpook]

... Are there shorter quests people could point to that offer Reaper difficulty? Maybe not shorter, but perhaps around the same length.

That sounds like a trap...

Nothing in tangleroot is shorter than Haverdasher, Kobold's New Ring Leader, or Sunken Sewer (and possibly Caged Beast). I don't think short reaper quests at low levels that you out level quickly should be an issue. And 2 of those (haverdasher, sunken sewer) you may not get reaper XP as getting 10 kills can be a challenge or impossibility.

[jackatthekilns]

I am not very concerned with whether or not Tangleroot is reaper. My main concern is being able to do a whole pack in 1 run at a single (or maybe 2) level. The main reason I don't ever do Sorrowdusk is I don't want to keep going back every time I'm at the right level. It keeps me from wanting to do quests that I would otherwise enjoy. It also poses a bigger problem when you limit entry on hardcore (which was an otherwise fun change).

[helpfulguy1234]

Can we get reaper difficulty added to Precious Cargo?
Don't think it's exploitable anymore?

And it's not like people are using epic quests to grind rxp anyways now.

[SocratesBastardSon]

I've always loved these old, classic quests, but they're awkward to run in their current form. I would be so happy to see them get a Delera's/Catacombs-style facelift. I really like Ravenloft's tiered approach where each chain increases 1 level. That could work as a template for these quests as well.

While you're thinking about it, if you added a mid-Epic treatment where the pickings are currently so slim, it would also be very, very welcome.

Except for Coyle. Everyone hates Coyle.

[Wizard1406]

I've always loved these old, classic quests, but they're awkward to run in their current form. I would be so happy to see them get a Delera's/Catacombs-style facelift. I really like Ravenloft's tiered approach where each chain increases 1 level. That could work as a template for these quests as well.

While you're thinking about it, if you added a mid-Epic treatment where the pickings are currently so slim, it would also be very, very welcome.

Except for Coyle. Everyone hates Coyle.

Yeah a revamp would be nice....much shorter defend quest (or at least much more xp), less escort missions, less back and forth.

Personally I don't like quest chains different in level. For Ravenloft it's 10-12. But storywise it is clearly meant to play in one go and mechanically it's better to stay in RL for the 3 chains too. I'd prefer all of Ravenloft lvl 12.

And yep more mid epic quests would be nice.

[droid327]

Are there shorter quests people could point to that offer Reaper difficulty? Maybe not shorter, but perhaps around the same length.


Impossible Demands is always the poster child for hyper fast completions

Members Only is another one you can clear in <2m if you get lucky with the puzzle especially, and that's a Legendary one too. BoB of course. Into the Mists.

[Halciet]

Please dont. I cant be the only person that preferred Catacombs before the updates.

You are not alone. Fortunately Delera's was barely modified.

[Oxarhamar]

This was not the only consideration but it was a consideration. Especially when we first released Reaper difficulty there was a concern that adding it to Tangleroot would overly motivate people to grind through the quick quests there rather than engage with the rest of the game. Since it wasn't available, it's hard to say whether it would have been the case or not. Now that the feature has matured it would be nice to take a look at Tangleroot, but there are indeed a few quests that are less than a few minutes long in practice that might still be an issue. Are there shorter quests people could point to that offer Reaper difficulty? Maybe not shorter, but perhaps around the same length.

Improving the level range layout of Tangleroot, Sorrowdusk, and Threnal is something we'd love to do someday if we can carve out the time for it.

Yeah I dont see quest length as an issue there there are some short ones but they also don't grant much xp anyways so it wouldn't convert to much RXP

I hardly think the RXP would be so good that players would ignore the rest of the game at that level

as far as quest that are faster or similar some have been listed but its' not just the speed of the quest but the RXP return fast quest with low xp not going to break the RXP game theres 5-7 minute quests with much higher XP per minute that will grant higher RXP anyways

There was an outdates guide that had quest times listed but, its not opening for me in search

[Marshal_Lannes]

Thernal, Sorrowdusk, Tangleroot, and Shan to Kor all have unique named items that could benefit from a loot pass. STK and Tangleroot in particular could be brought up to some semblance of Feywild standards. I run a strangely prolific amount of Sorrowdusk as it's a nice level range where I can do that when waiting for LFMs to fill or to top off a circle before leveling.

[Ereshkigal]

I feel like there are ample quests level 1-7 especially with the new content.

I do enjoy running Tangleroot and Sorrow Dusk but the back and forth has been too much for me lately and I end up just skipping them. Both of those carry on for 5 levels. How about tightening up those quests over 3 levels and have them go 8-10 or 10-12 range? I realize everyone's quest rotation is different but for me this quest level range is the most lacking. Also having reaper for Tangleroot would be great.

Threnal's quest levels just seems clunky to me to begin with. Maybe a better organization with the quest levels?

Eh I like those at the level where they are at. I run them every reincarnation. It's fast XP and at a good level positioning already, but, I would also like if they added reaper.

Tangleroot being where it is at allows me to get House P buffs early. Pls don't move it.

[Aelonwy]

I would like to see the level ranges tightened up and be in numerical order (looking at Threnal especially).

For Tangleroot, I've said it before and I'll say it again, narrow it down to a 3 level spread... make the first 4 quests level 4, the next 4 level 5, and the final 2 level 6. Beef up the wilderness zone a bit to make it more interesting.

The same could be done with Sorrowdusk, the lower Grey Moon quests could be all level 7 then the Cult of the Six group could have the first 4 be level 8 and the final 2 be level 9.

Threnal is a 3 level spread but each set should be ALL ONE LEVEL, so West should be all 8, East all 9, Abandoned Excavation all 10.

I don't have any issues with Shan to Kor but I would not have any issues with making it all level 4 either.

By the way, between level 3 and level 8, level 4 has the least number of quests so shifting a few quests here and there to level 4 while tightening up the level spread of quests chains would be the most sensible change.

[glassesjr]

Sorrowdusk is one of my favorite packs (I run it every life). It's very old school in a good way, but of course has its own flaws. I would love to see it get an Epic treatment and some QOL by possibly adding a teleporter to the wilderness area, but with mounts it isn't that bad though. I agree the level range could be better. I prefer a whole chain being a similar level range so you can knock it out all at once.

Maybe even give it a saga? One can dream (could add some already existing similar type quests to make for a longer saga maybe?).

[GottDDO]

I've recently returned to the game, and I don't own a lot of the "newer" expansion packs.

I'm trying to avoid making the mistake I've made when returning to past MMOs, like LOTRO, the EQ's, etc., of buying all the new content only to stop playing again a couple of months later.

While streamlining the quests levels would be great, so I want to do the entire series, more or less, at once, I'd like them to stay at/near their current levels. As someone else stated, the level 4 stuff isn't all that plentiful.

[kpak01]

I don't want their level range moved completely, but I add my vote to narrowing the level range for some of these chains.

To me, a 1-level difference isn't a big deal, but chains spread across 3 or more levels are problematic.

Tangleroot is currently spread across 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7. Can we make that only 5 & 6, or 4 & 5 if that's more appropriate?

Grey Moon Waning is only 2 levels, 6 & 7, but Cult of the Six is spread across 8, 9, and 10. Can we either make it only 9 & 10, or only 8 & 9?

Threnal East & Threnal South are only 2 level each, 9 & 10. But Threnal West goes from 8 to 10. Can we make it either 8-9 or 9-10?

Shan to Kor is 3, 4, 5. Let's narrow that to 3 & 4 or 4 & 5, too.

Delera's is 5, (6,) 7, 8. Can we just make it all 7 & 8?

Although side quests are not a "chain" per se, can we increase Rahmat in the Desert to 11 to match all the other sides out there?

Can we lower Titan from 12 to 11 to match Twilight Forge and only be 1 level over it's flagging quests?

Can we move VoN 1 & 2 up to 9, so they're only 1 level below the raid?

[Cableman]

Eh I like those at the level where they are at. I run them every reincarnation. It's fast XP and at a good level positioning already, but, I would also like if they added reaper.

Tangleroot being where it is at allows me to get House P buffs early. Pls don't move it.

If it were up to me, I would consolidate all the Tangleroot and STK quests at level 4, it would boost up the number of level 4 quests and there are already so many level 3, 5, 6 and 7 quests. I would consolidate the lower Sorrowdusk quests to be all level 8 and the upper quests to be all level 9. Lastly, I would consolidate all Threnal quests to be level 10.

[Wizard1406]

^ This is the way. Ever since bravery and removal of underlevel xp bonus, there's no use for different level ranges for quest lines that get played in one go.

[Bunker]

I am not very concerned with whether or not Tangleroot is reaper. My main concern is being able to do a whole pack in 1 run at a single (or maybe 2) level. The main reason I don't ever do Sorrowdusk is I don't want to keep going back every time I'm at the right level. It keeps me from wanting to do quests that I would otherwise enjoy. It also poses a bigger problem when you limit entry on hardcore (which was an otherwise fun change).

The level span from 5-9 (on elite) for Tanglrroot is a little broad. However, being older content, the monsters are not that difficult to begin with. If there was an adjustment on the quest level for Tangleroot, I would not like it to go up. House P buffs are more beneficial in earlier stages of the game, and for most players, tangleroot is the usual gateway to that favor reward.

As for Threnal, these quests are a tight enough range that you can run through them without worrying about leveling in the middle of the chain.

I understand the point in hardcore seasons, but nothing says you have to run content with you character at the highest availablenlevel. You CAN run a level 10 quest(12 elite) as a level 10 character.