Epic xp bugged still

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

Bunch of my rl friends who love D&D pnp have come back to DDO to play with me.

We ran haunted halls of evening star on R4 - we were all lvl 32. We all received 0 XP, 0RXP

Now, considering that the proposals on the test server vastly change this D&D based game into a video game,
I would put for a protest that, rather than changing our D&D game into a video game with borked rules,
we fix the game we actually have and get these epic quests to work with our legendary characters.

The partition between epic and legendary was implimented by you for a purpose - yet it is doing nothing but
making the game impossible to enjoy.

We all after running Haunted Halls were left feeling that was exceedingly lame to receive no XP.
Quests should tell you on the window before you enter that if you are legendary you will receive no Epic XP
if this is the way it is intended. Then you can decide if you wish to spend time or not.

Then we discussed for a while how dumb it will be for wizards to get d6 when we all know
wizards get d4s etc etc - I won't bore you
with the details. Sufficed to say unanimously we all think the proposed changes on lamania presently are
the wrong direction for this game and that more time needs to be spend fixing the game that we have.

[Lynnabel]

Bunch of my rl friends who love D&D pnp have come back to DDO to play with me.

We ran haunted halls of evening star on R4 - we were all lvl 32. We all received 0 XP, 0RXP

The quest the Haunted Halls of Eveningstar is level 28, and is therefore an Epic Quest, not a Legendary one.

[jskinner937]

The quest the Haunted Halls of Eveningstar is level 28, and is therefore an Epic Quest, not a Legendary one.

I think his point is no rXP. A level 28 quest on r4 should reward rXP in full even at cap. Considering they were all 32 assumes they did not need legendary xp.

[Wizard1406]

Yep I think as long as you can enter reaper (base +6 I think maximum in epics?) you should be able to get reaper xp.

[Lynnabel]

I think his point is no rXP. A level 28 quest on r4 should reward rXP in full even at cap. Considering they were all 32 assumes they did not need legendary xp.

As it stands currently, the Legendary lockout applies to all kinds of XP. In order for Legendary characters to gain XP they must do Legendary content.

[droid327]

Its the same in Epic....L20 chars can no longer run Heroic quests on Reaper

Though the argument there is (or was) that Destinies are such a power bump that Heroic quests would no longer provide adequate challenge. There is no corollary spike in power at L30 though, its pretty much a smooth progression from Epic leveling - the distinction, right now, is mostly arbitrary

[Oxarhamar]

Its the same in Epic....L20 chars can no longer run Heroic quests on Reaper

Though the argument there is (or was) that Destinies are such a power bump that Heroic quests would no longer provide adequate challenge. There is no corollary spike in power at L30 though, its pretty much a smooth progression from Epic leveling - the distinction, right now, is mostly arbitrary

Even in Epic it’s arbitrary now that Epic Destiny no long offer full power at 20

It is what it is though unless it’s changed

[Mofus]

As it stands currently, the Legendary lockout applies to all kinds of XP. In order for Legendary characters to gain XP they must do Legendary content.

This lock out xp is ruining the end game, wish it never happened.

[Wizard1406]

Indeed I don't think there should be a strict epic - legendary seperation. This only further divides the playerbase. DDO just doesn't have enough players for that.

[eightspoons]

This brings up a point I've briefly mentioned before - I think that Haunted Halls needs updating to be a legendary level quest with appropriate items, because as it is now there's very little reason to run it. Which is a shame because it's a really good quest.

[thebeast1985]

This lock out xp is ruining the end game, wish it never happened.

IF ONLY there was a system that blocked granting of XP after.. let's say, 4 levels...

Instead of a lock by generic heroic\epic\legendary.

I Wonder how much it could take to make a system like the one I mentioned above.

OH WAIT. IT'S ALREADY THERE!

/sarchasm off

[Wahnsinnig]

This lock out xp is ruining the end game, wish it never happened.

How?

There are well over 100 legendary quests you can do for reaper XP on legendary characters. This is not at all a problem in any way.

[helpfulguy1234]

As it stands currently, the Legendary lockout applies to all kinds of XP. In order for Legendary characters to gain XP they must do Legendary content.


The reaper xp thing should change. There are plenty of "epic" quests 26+ that should give reaper xp to legendary characters at 32. Things like Necro 4, lot of times you get capped and then want to flag for MOD, cleanup favor, etc.

You used to get reaper xp at level 30 for those quests, why not now?

It's fine to not get regular legendary xp, no problem. But lets get that changed back so we can get reaper xp? It actually helps with grouping and finding groups if you put this back, as it stands now the change is an ANTI-GROUPING MECHANIC.

[Oxarhamar]

The reaper xp thing should change. There are plenty of "epic" quests 26+ that should give reaper xp to legendary characters at 32. Things like Necro 4, lot of times you get capped and then want to flag for MOD, cleanup favor, etc.

You used to get reaper xp at level 30 for those quests, why not now?

It's fine to not get regular legendary xp, no problem. But lets get that changed back so we can get reaper xp? It actually helps with grouping and finding groups if you put this back, as it stands now the change is an ANTI-GROUPING MECHANIC.

While I agree that it’s anti grouping

You can get RXP in those quests at 29 or below

[Aelonwy]

It is ALSO true that the whole 0 legendary XP in quests under 30 for characters 30+ is absolutely ARBITRARY and nonsense. A level 20+ can still get epicXP from quests lvl 18/19 on elite; it is much reduced from the XP they could gain from actual epic quests but it is NOT 0. Furthermore, an Epic character and a Heroic character are filling out entirely different enhancements with their XP - BUT an Epic character and a Legendary character ARE IN THE SAME ENHANCEMENT SYSTEM - Epic Destinies. Ergo, this arbitrary delineation of XP is in part created in preparation for Legendary TR, they know its coming... its probably most of what funds this game. They could have achieved similar aims without the complete 0xp cutoff by just having players 30+ receiving 50% xp in content under 30. An XP penalty rather than an XP cut-off would still have allowed for grouping across the level 30 threshold without the bitterness of receiving zilch for their time and efforts.

[Vannessya]

The only reason that I see for them to make earning exp only possible in a Legendary content for lvl 30 and up, is :
Those quests are not Free to Play.

Most of them, if not all (i dont know), are from expansion pack.

I might be wrong, but to me, that is the only reason.

I personally think it is a bad move. It make gaming frustrating.
There is no warning when entering the quest.

I agree it is hurting the fun of running lvl 30 characters.

[Tyrande]

The only reason that I see for them to make earning exp only possible in a Legendary content for lvl 30 and up, is :
Those quests are not Free to Play.

Most of them, if not all (i dont know), are from expansion pack.

Whenever my characters is joining a new PUG, I checked the quests whether that they are from Ravenloft or later expansions, Cerulian Hills, Archons (Amrath) or Greyhawk (Slavers, ToEE, WPM). If not, my character will probably not join as the base quest level is less than 30.



I might be wrong, but to me, that is the only reason.

I think you're right. Revenue drives the sales model.



I personally think it is a bad move. It make gaming frustrating.
There is no warning when entering the quest.

I agree it is hurting the fun of running lvl 30 characters.

the only warning is when you press [X] and it says 0 legendary xp.

No, it does not show a big red X on the screen that says, "DO NOT ENTER, YOU WILL GET 0 legendary and 0 reaper XP".

Would have been nice, wouldn't it?

[misterski]

The only reason that I see for them to make earning exp only possible in a Legendary content for lvl 30 and up, is :
Those quests are not Free to Play.

Most of them, if not all (i dont know), are from expansion pack.

I might be wrong, but to me, that is the only reason.

I personally think it is a bad move. It make gaming frustrating.
There is no warning when entering the quest.

I agree it is hurting the fun of running lvl 30 characters.

Majority of legendary content is from expansion packs/quest packs but there are 6 quests and 3 raids that are f2p. They need to open up more content for legendary if they're gong to continue with this limitation. Or offer the free quest coupon once again.

[superevbully]

Indeed I don't think there should be a strict epic - legendary seperation. This only further divides the playerbase. DDO just doesn't have enough players for that.

This is right on point .............its like the dev team doesnt see the effects of this terrible rule ...............again wheres all the new players promised with ed changes .......i certianly dont see them

[dsmwhiteknight]

As it stands currently, the Legendary lockout applies to all kinds of XP. In order for Legendary characters to gain XP they must do Legendary content.

Lynnabel,

We understand that is how it currently stands, but that is not what was advertised was going to happen. We were told that we would not get legendary xp for running epic content, not that we would get no xp of any kind. And it does not seem to make any sense. There is no big power jump like when you hit level 20 and are locked out of reaper content for level 19 and below. There seems to be no reason for a level 30 character to get no reaper xp for a level 29 quest. If you want to move the level range back down to 4 levels over or something that, fine, but why the complete lockout on reaper xp?

[dsmwhiteknight]

Even in Epic it’s arbitrary now that Epic Destiny no long offer full power at 20

It is what it is though unless it’s changed

Even though you do not get full power, there is still a very large power jump.

I would love to see it change mind you, but they can still make the argument that there is a large power jump.

[Oxarhamar]

Even though you do not get full power, there is still a very large power jump.

I would love to see it change mind you, but they can still make the argument that there is a large power jump.

Yeah it’s definitely not anything like it was when they set that up

I don’t really care either way but having less restrictions to groups would be a good thing

[ChrisTOTG]

As it stands currently, the Legendary lockout applies to all kinds of XP. In order for Legendary characters to gain XP they must do Legendary content.

Thanks for the insight, although there are two separate problems described in the post, and you're addressing one of them - the other is basically "the UI should tell players that they won't get XP or RXP for running a quest BEFORE they enter".


As for no rxp for running a level 28 quest while capped, that... isn't a good feeling. Maybe it would be better to not multiply Reaper XP by 4 in Epic quests once you hit Legendary levels instead? As the level cap floats up the problem will go away anyway.

[Oxarhamar]

Thanks for the insight, although there are two separate problems described in the post, and you're addressing one of them - the other is basically "the UI should tell players that they won't get XP or RXP for running a quest BEFORE they enter".


As for no rxp for running a level 28 quest while capped, that... isn't a good feeling. Maybe it would be better to not multiply Reaper XP by 4 in Epic quests once you hit Legendary levels instead? As the level cap floats up the problem will go away anyway.

Probably be better to just have reaper lockout if there’s no XP then there’s no mistake

[ChrisTOTG]

Probably be better to just have reaper lockout if there’s no XP then there’s no mistake

Lockouts mean more barriers that prevent people from playing together. I doubt that's a good long-term plan for a boutique MMO full of old people :)

[dsmwhiteknight]

Lockouts mean more barriers that prevent people from playing together. I doubt that's a good long-term plan for a boutique MMO full of old people :)

Not to mention that some may want to farm an item in reaper mode even if they get no rxp. Rxp is not the only reason to run in reaper mode.

[Oxarhamar]

Not to mention that some may want to farm an item in reaper mode even if they get no rxp. Rxp is not the only reason to run in reaper mode.

True but if they are going to have legendary to epic function like epic to heroic then it should be consistent

[Bjond]

As it stands currently, the Legendary lockout applies to all kinds of XP. In order for Legendary characters to gain XP they must do Legendary content.

This is the problem. The rule is nonsensical. It's obviously only there to imitate the heroic->epic transition and U51 removed the reason for that; ie. pre-51, the transition itself instantly granted so much extra power as to trivialize content below the boundary. Post-51, that no longer happens.

Similarly, L30 now is no different at all than L30 was before the word "Legendary" was added and yet it gains no XP from content that was granting XP @ L30 for years. L32 is barely a nudge up in power over L30. The standard XP for over-level works just fine for balance there.

Also, the only folks you're really hurting are likely new players and characters (L30 & L31) that maybe need that 1~2 level nudge up versus older content. When the next level bump comes, the cap-snap will turn all that old content into zero XP anyway. Might as well keep it open for those still earning real XP on their 1st trip to cap.

[voxson5]

The quest the Haunted Halls of Eveningstar is level 28, and is therefore an Epic Quest, not a Legendary one.

That is not a solution, nor even a reasonable discussion of the issues raised (which are not new).

I though you, of all the devs, were better than this.

[dsmwhiteknight]

True but if they are going to have legendary to epic function like epic to heroic then it should be consistent

They are not trying to have them function the same. When you transition from heroic to epic they wanted you to get more xp in epics so they set it up that way. You still get xp from running quests on heroic, but you get a lot more xp if you run them on epic. The lockout was specific to reaper because the jump in power was so high and reaper was not the challenge it should be, so they locked us out of reaper. I am presuming to avoid people getting easy reaper xp, but I don't know if they actually said that.

In the epic to legendary transition they want us to get no legendary xp from running epic quests. So they locked xp and as a byproduct locked reaper xp as well. Many of us thought they were implementing a new type of xp, legendary xp. Instead they locked getting xp in epic quests when you take 30.

Maybe they should have the same goals for these two transitions and have them function the same, but currently they do not.

If they were going to go for the same implementation on both, I would prefer what they are doing with epic to legendary where you can still run the content on reaper, you just get no xp.

[ahpook]

They are not trying to have them function the same. ...
Sure, but that explanation of how they are trying to get them to function doesn't change that it was bad. Either it was
(A) a bad decision (as many here agree), or
(B) it was a bad implementation to not have users aware that there will be no XP when they start the quest.

Personally I think they should fix the former as the decision is narrow and generally pointless (most players start running legendary content at level 29, another difference between this and Heroic->Epic where running epic at heroic levels is simply not allowed). In fact I think they should get rid of these level limitations on both these boundary conditions and just let people play the **** quests with consistent rules.

However if they don't want to rethink that decision, then they really should inform the user on the quest entry screen. To suddenly and silently introduce a penalty based on the base level of the quest at level 30 is unexpected and arbitrary and the game should go out of its way to present such an arbitrary restriction.

But of course all this has been said many times by many posters and I doubt another message to SSG will make a difference.

[Oxarhamar]

They are not trying to have them function the same. When you transition from heroic to epic they wanted you to get more xp in epics so they set it up that way. You still get xp from running quests on heroic, but you get a lot more xp if you run them on epic. The lockout was specific to reaper because the jump in power was so high and reaper was not the challenge it should be, so they locked us out of reaper. I am presuming to avoid people getting easy reaper xp, but I don't know if they actually said that.

In the epic to legendary transition they want us to get no legendary xp from running epic quests. So they locked xp and as a byproduct locked reaper xp as well. Many of us thought they were implementing a new type of xp, legendary xp. Instead they locked getting xp in epic quests when you take 30.

Maybe they should have the same goals for these two transitions and have them function the same, but currently they do not.

If they were going to go for the same implementation on both, I would prefer what they are doing with epic to legendary where you can still run the content on reaper, you just get no xp.

I don’t entirely disagree with you I mostly agree my point was more that they should be consistent that would be thematic

I d rather they did away with the lockout for epic in heroic since U51 changes & the barriers in Legendary to epic but I don’t see that move happening either so I’d settle for consistency of some kind in design