Is it me or does Saltmarsh feel bad to play?

[Paragoons]

Is it me or does Saltmarsh feel bad to play? especially in heroic
The quests are generally unrewarding too long or too short and the exp rewards are overall all over pretty bad
lots of empty running around from room to room or down long corridors.
The wilderness is pretty cool but as always suffers once major issue as all wilderness totally unrewarding to travel through overall feels kind of empty in some areas, and the exp for slayers is garbagaio

[systemshaker1941]

I think saltmarsh can best be described as "so ok, its average". Compared to some of the amazing content, it feels bad by comparison.

[Standal]

I only run "The Final Enemy" in heroic Saltmarsh now that I have all the gear I want. It's just too slow in a level range that didn't need more quests.

I feel the same way about Feywild. To much XP at that level to put up with Feywild.

[rabidfox]

I only run "The Final Enemy" in heroic Saltmarsh now that I have all the gear I want. It's just too slow in a level range that didn't need more quests.

I feel the same way about Feywild. To much XP at that level to put up with Feywild.

I too only do the final enemy as that's great xp/min and the other quests are meh. All the heroic quests in the newer expansions are tougher than the old outdate content of the same level brackets (SM, Fey, Dread, Sharn). So while one can zerg lvl 3 stuff like Waterworks, STK, etc. with little risk, the mobs in SM are tankier and do more damage so it slows one's roll and brings the xp/min down as a result. A good party can overcome this to keep the xp/min good, but it's rare to have a nice group for that level bracket (while it's much more common to easily get a group for Fey or Sharn). I personally like that it's not a piece of cake but for those wanting to just zip thru heroics to grab a past life then it's kind of a slog compared to other quest options (I do love that we've got so many quests available now that it's all a matter of personal choice for what to run and what to skip).

[Sqrlmonger]

Saltmarsh suffers from the "they think we like running through wilderness to get to a quest" problem.

Some quest chains overcome it because they are good xp (storm horns, GH, etc..), some because of guides (RL), some because they are good content (pure preference), others because there are enough in a small area in that wilderness (borderlands), etc..

Meanwhile saltmarsh is OK xp, has no guides, is OK content, and is spread all over the **** place.

It is what it is and they've routinely demonstrated over the years by continuing to do it that they like this paradigm and don't want to change it even if quite a few people vehemently dislike it.

I have no problem with people who play for lore and geography or whathave you, I just wish the people who made the game weren't the subset of those people who think everyone should be forced to experience the part they like. This seems to be why I have to sit through 2 minute exposition in quests (e.g. Spinner & Just Business, to name 2) that I run often multiple times per week. Sometimes they are convenient RR break points, but often its just a chance to start another youtube video on my other monitor.

[Annex]

Legendary Saltmarsh is my favorite expansion/quest pack of the last 4 years. The Legendary version is very rewarding and I even enjoy the rare monster wilderness run, something I normally detest. I do not play the Heroic version and have no expectations for good equipment from level 1-4 quests. Even for me, those levels go by swiftly. If I were a subscriber, I would save my gold rolls and skip them every single time. Also, a new player will probably find Heroic Saltmarsh way better looking, interesting, and modern than the Harbor.

Overloading levels with quests is a very good thing, allowing players to take different paths through the game with their characters. We need much more of that, not less. Management at Standing Stone Games needs to find a way to quadruple quest output. I would much rather have a new expansion or quest pack than a new class or tree since the latter always comes with class churn causing anger and frustration.

Give me three Saltmarshes every single year, please. That I will buy.


Saltmarsh suffers from the "they think we like running through wilderness to get to a quest" problem.

Some quest chains overcome it because they are good xp (storm horns, GH, etc..), some because of guides (RL), some because they are good content (pure preference), others because there are enough in a small area in that wilderness (borderlands), etc..

Meanwhile saltmarsh is OK xp, has no guides, is OK content, and is spread all over the **** place.

Gianthold and the Storm Horns are _terrible_ wilderness areas. The run from quest to quest in Saltmarsh is easy and intuitive while the same thing in Gianthold and the Storm Horns is just awful. The monster density in Saltmarsh is high enough to make slayers almost bearable. The close range activation system used for Saltmarsh works for me because it keeps Red Alert at a minimum when I hunt the rare monsters.

I do agree that Ravenloft is the gold standard. Back in 2017, I campaigned hard for those Ravenloft guides. The Borderlands wilderness area is also very good. The quests are very tightly grouped which is an advantage over Saltmarsh. The rare monster wilderness run is designed like Saltmarsh, which is great, but Saltmarsh is more rewarding because of the higher level.

[Paragoons]

Saltmarsh suffers from the "they think we like running through wilderness to get to a quest" problem.

Some quest chains overcome it because they are good xp (storm horns, GH, etc..), some because of guides (RL), some because they are good content (pure preference), others because there are enough in a small area in that wilderness (borderlands), etc..

Meanwhile saltmarsh is OK xp, has no guides, is OK content, and is spread all over the **** place.

It is what it is and they've routinely demonstrated over the years by continuing to do it that they like this paradigm and don't want to change it even if quite a few people vehemently dislike it.

I have no problem with people who play for lore and geography or whathave you, I just wish the people who made the game weren't the subset of those people who think everyone should be forced to experience the part they like. This seems to be why I have to sit through 2 minute exposition in quests (e.g. Spinner & Just Business, to name 2) that I run often multiple times per week. Sometimes they are convenient RR break points, but often its just a chance to start another youtube video on my other monitor.


I hate wilderness areas with passion once or twice is fine generally meh

[Oxarhamar]

I hate wilderness areas with passion once or twice is fine generally meh

I love them however that’s for doing slayers when I’m in that kind of relaxing mood for getting to the quests give me a teleport all day

[Strider1963]

Saltmarsh suffers from the "they think we like running through wilderness to get to a quest" problem.

Some quest chains overcome it because they are good xp (storm horns, GH, etc..), some because of guides (RL), some because they are good content (pure preference), others because there are enough in a small area in that wilderness (borderlands), etc..

Meanwhile saltmarsh is OK xp, has no guides, is OK content, and is spread all over the **** place.

It is what it is and they've routinely demonstrated over the years by continuing to do it that they like this paradigm and don't want to change it even if quite a few people vehemently dislike it.

I have no problem with people who play for lore and geography or whathave you, I just wish the people who made the game weren't the subset of those people who think everyone should be forced to experience the part they like. This seems to be why I have to sit through 2 minute exposition in quests (e.g. Spinner & Just Business, to name 2) that I run often multiple times per week. Sometimes they are convenient RR break points, but often its just a chance to start another youtube video on my other monitor.

Totally agree with you about having to run through slayer areas to get to quests. It has gotten old. Ravenloft and Sharn were wonderful for not having to run all over the place to find the quest locations. The people who insist that it somehow takes away from the lore or whatever to simply be able to port to the quests can still run through the countryside if they desire, nobodys stopping them but being able to port to the quests is a real time saver for people that dont have much playtime due to RL concerns.

[Wizard1406]

Saltmarsh heroic is very overtuned (more like lvl 5 quests instead of 3), and much too low xp. Too many mobs at once for low level quest, where many classes have few / no AOE.

Legendary Saltmarsh has a great rewarding slayer area. Xp for quests is still undertuned but you're more there for rxp, saga , drops,senti xp.

I don't mind the wilderness running. You can do a good circuit, that doesn't take too long from quest to quest, and also check the rares on the way. Teleports for people coming to the party later would be good though.

[helpfulguy1234]

Saltmarsh heroic is very overtuned (more like lvl 5 quests instead of 3), and much too low xp. Too many mobs at once for low level quest, where many classes have few / no AOE.

Legendary Saltmarsh has a great rewarding slayer area. Xp for quests is still undertuned but you're more there for rxp, saga , drops,senti xp.

I don't mind the wilderness running. You can do a good circuit, that doesn't take too long from quest to quest, and also check the rares on the way. Teleports for people coming to the party later would be good though.

Yeah heroic is WAY overtuned, but I still usually run for the saga. The xp also is pretty meh.

Legendary is allright for the reasons you said.

The quests themselves, are just sort of meh. In particular, what sleeps below is just super boring and repetitive, and I have to hit myself in the head with a claw hammer every time I run it just to feel something besides the misery of running it.

I wish they would go back to the ravenloft style for the wild where you can teleport to the quests directly. They STILL have not figured out WE DONT LIKE RUNNING THROUGH THE WILD TO GET TO QUESTS!!

[Steeme]

The quests are actually not very long once you've learned your optimal paths (other than Danger at Dunwater) - but yes they are scaled too high in order to present a "challenge" to the players.

Forced repeated trudging through the wilderness to play saga content is something that needs to be addressed as a whole - and I think if it were to be addressed it would naturally improve the XP/min value and reduce player fatigue.

[slarden]

Saltmarsh heroic is very overtuned (more like lvl 5 quests instead of 3), and much too low xp. Too many mobs at once for low level quest, where many classes have few / no AOE.

Legendary Saltmarsh has a great rewarding slayer area. Xp for quests is still undertuned but you're more there for rxp, saga , drops,senti xp.

I don't mind the wilderness running. You can do a good circuit, that doesn't take too long from quest to quest, and also check the rares on the way. Teleports for people coming to the party later would be good though.

Yeah the heroic version is definitely over-tuned based on the # of deaths I see there on hardcore. I had a person in my static group get hit for over 250 from a yellow name caster.

On the other hand it's probably the absolute best gear for a new player to acquire because it can be upgraded to epic gear immediately at 20 with hay that you get at heroic levels in quests/wilderness. As far a I know it's the only heroic items immediately upgradeable to "epic" at level 20 without first running epic versions of the quest. That makes it kind of a unicorn for new players and for everyone on hardcore.

Skullduggery cap from final enemy is the best low-level deathward clicky in the game.

I always like teleport options to quests, although I don't find the pathing for saltmarsh too bad and usually want to check for rares anyhow along the way. I usually just run everything clockwise-ish starting with the tower. At least for me horses make wilderness runs much better.

As for xp I don't even notice. I only really care about rxp at legendary levels and it seems fine to me there.

[LokiFrost20882]

Is it me or does Saltmarsh feel bad to play? especially in heroic
The quests are generally unrewarding too long or too short and the exp rewards are overall all over pretty bad
lots of empty running around from room to room or down long corridors.
The wilderness is pretty cool but as always suffers once major issue as all wilderness totally unrewarding to travel through overall feels kind of empty in some areas, and the exp for slayers is garbagaio

Yes, it may be you. I love Saltmarsh. Heroic and higher levels. Great slayers, loot and gear.

[cmecu]

Is it me or does Saltmarsh feel bad to play? especially in heroic
The quests are generally unrewarding too long or too short and the exp rewards are overall all over pretty bad
lots of empty running around from room to room or down long corridors.
The wilderness is pretty cool but as always suffers once major issue as all wilderness totally unrewarding to travel through overall feels kind of empty in some areas, and the exp for slayers is garbagaio

Your not the only one. I too feel that way.. But I have to look at it from 2 different points of view.

First, if I working on level, just doing the grind..with say a 30 or even 50 pot running, Saltmarsh is the worst place to go. Especially if your new to that zone, or just dont do it that often. There are many quests that players, if they are not really familiar with them, can end up in the dungeon for 30 or even more minutes.

The flip side to that is, if your say a first lifer, or you just love content and a story line and dont care about time constraints then that would be more fun doing it like that. Some people dont like spending long periods of time in a zone.

The Exp vs Time spent isnt really good at all for Saltmarsh.

As for parts of the wilderness being bare, it does feel that way sometimes, but then there are parts that feel like the Feywild with too much stuff and you can practically body surf from quest to quest on the tops of all the monsters out there.

The last 2 expansions I really havent done more than a maybe a handful of times. Saltmarsh I may have done like 8 times, Isle of Dread I did twice, and yesterday was the first time I did the Final Quest , the Temple one.. Which was fun btw.. took me forever trying to figure out how to get to it.. until I finally looked up and seen the bridge :D lol.

[PaddyMaxson]

While I agree with everyone's points in this thread - Saltmarsh isn't awful XP if you can do it in 60-80 mins and then turn the saga in too, then it's pretty good and while it's a big adventure area it's pretty much running in a straight line from quest to quest to make a big circle so it's not too bad to get around.

That said yes, XP at level 3 is super overtuned everywhere EXCEPT saltmarsh. and I HATE rest for the night.

[carsonfball]

Is it me or does Saltmarsh feel bad to play? especially in heroic
The quests are generally unrewarding too long or too short and the exp rewards are overall all over pretty bad
lots of empty running around from room to room or down long corridors.
The wilderness is pretty cool but as always suffers once major issue as all wilderness totally unrewarding to travel through overall feels kind of empty in some areas, and the exp for slayers is garbagaio

I really like the legendary version, but rarely run the heroic version as I normally out-level the content before I get to it. I find it interesting that you say the slayer xp is garbage. I pop a slayer pot and go there when I hit 20. I can solo all of the s/r/e objectives in about 90 minutes and it seems like a decent amount. It's certainly better, IMO, than soloing most other wildernesses; I find the mob density there is better solo than most other wildernesses and it beats running some of the lower level wildernesses (King's Forest and High Road come to mind).

I agree though that the quests could all be made closer to the same speed. A couple are pretty long and the rest only take a few minutes to run. None of them take long to get to with a mount though and, for the most part, there aren't obstacles preventing you from running in a straight line to them.

[droid327]

I think most of the quests are pretty decent. Most are fairly short and straightforward. There's just a few annoying elements that I think overshadow everything...

- wilderness runs. They really need unlockable waypoints

- lizardfolk quest suffers from "dragonborn prophecy syndrome": way too long, way too much running around, too many packs of huge mobs, plus cutscenes. Worst quest of the bunch, feels like such a slog

- find-the-random-spawn in the haunted house, always irksome

- platforming in the frog quest. There's an alternative...but "protracted swim" is about equal on the annoying meter

But Back to Basics is a great daily quest for rxp. Quick, simple, easy to access, then run up the hill for a guaranteed rare chest after

You do need to learn the quests though, they're not all just straight dungeon crawls unless you know where to go and what to do. That's true in most packs, but you can lose a lot more time in SM quests if you don't

[PaddyMaxson]

I think most of the quests are pretty decent. Most are fairly short and straightforward. There's just a few annoying elements that I think overshadow everything...

- wilderness runs. They really need unlockable waypoints

- lizardfolk quest suffers from "dragonborn prophecy syndrome": way too long, way too much running around, too many packs of huge mobs, plus cutscenes. Worst quest of the bunch, feels like such a slog

- platforming in the frog quest. There's an alternative...but "protracted swim" is about equal on the annoying meter

You do need to learn the quests though, they're not all just straight dungeon crawls unless you know where to go and what to do. That's true in most packs, but you can lose a lot more time in SM quests if you don't

I do very much like the "This quest can take ages if you're exploring a lot or is actually very short if you're grinding and know what you're doing" philosophy that SSG took on at some point (I guess around ravenloft), feels like Danger At Dunwater is a great example of that, it's about a 10 min quest if you go straight to the objectives, it has some randomness but the difference between the best and worst case scenarios is about another 1 minute.

But big agree on down you go, that jumping seems to ALWAYS lag.

[Oliphant]

I like Saltmarsh and the quests. The rewards seems pretty good for endgame: star and nebula fragments, sentient xp drops. The quests are set up with lots of little optionals that you can skip if you want but are good to do because they are quick and fun and provide chances for those loot rewards. Most of the quests are pretty straight forward. The mobs not being active until you stand right next to them pretty much nixes the slayer zone, which is a shame since it looks really nice.

[jskinner937]

Gear is terrible for most builds. Running through a wilderness that has lag and can easily die due to lag is terrible. XP/min for many of the quests is terrible. If there was other ways to get the ings needed there to craft legendary SSS gear, no one would run except Final Enemy, and maybe the croc one for rXP at cap. It has some entertainment value once through, but successive runs are just painfully boring.

Although some say they like some of the epic crafted gear upgraded from heroic, I still think most Borderlands gear and even heroic gear is a better fit for most. The skull cap is a must have though if have the pack, even for a capped character.

[droid327]

I do very much like the "This quest can take ages if you're exploring a lot or is actually very short if you're grinding and know what you're doing" philosophy that SSG took on at some point (I guess around ravenloft), feels like Danger At Dunwater is a great example of that, it's about a 10 min quest if you go straight to the objectives, it has some randomness but the difference between the best and worst case scenarios is about another 1 minute.

But big agree on down you go, that jumping seems to ALWAYS lag.

Danger is still a bit too long for my tastes, even if it's pretty linear when you learn it. Feels like two quests done back to back, but doesn't pay out like one.

I like Final Enemy though as a good example of a long quest that can be speed ran very efficiently. Just wish it didn't take so long to *get* there...

[LightBear]

If you compare the Borderlands to Saltmarch wilderness, then the loot is better in Saltmarch but the overall wilderness experience is better in Borderlands.
Borderlands wilderness also has a mount that you can save up for.
The Quests are closer together and the quests themselfs are shorter.

I have run Saltmarch with people that know the optimal route through each quest and from quest to quest.
Still, some quests in there feel empty, long and cramped in movement space at the same time.
Fighting knee deep in water is very Swamp like, but has a poor experience to reward ratio.
The loot isn't going to change but what would be nice is a higher xp for the quests.
Even in the wilderness, finding each quest should reward xp and not just once for finding an explorer point.

[Aelonwy]

I would support Saltmarsh quests getting a bump in XP but overall I enjoy them. The only one I particularly dislike running is the main Lizardfolk quest. It seems incredibly long, and while I enjoy all the optionals... the cramped tunnels, camera issues because of small spaces, enemies coming from so many directions in such small spaces, all the dang back-tracking... yeah, its just not high on my fun spectrum. In fact, its so problematic and unfun to me that I tend to dread running it.

Anecdotally, my hubby and son don't mind that one. Hubby's least favorite is the Haunted House on the hill. I think my son likes ALL of them. In fact, I would say Saltmarsh was his favorite content till he tried Dread on Lamannia (hard to compete with dinosaurs). Hubby's favorite content, like mine is Ravenloft.

[Dendrix]

Is it me or does Saltmarsh feel bad to play? especially in heroic
The quests are generally unrewarding too long or too short and the exp rewards are overall all over pretty bad


Oh Heroic the mobs in the quests are totally overpowered, not just a little, a lot. They have twice as many HP and do twice as much damage as they should when comparing with other level 3 quests.

[kmoustakas]

My favourite thing in DDO is the wilderness areas.

Saltmarsh wilderness is terrible for me specifically because I have to go in melee to activate monsters. It has good loot rewards with artifacts and sentient xp but the slayers XP is moderate to bad and the quest XP incredibly bad. If it wasn't for the saga I would never run half of them.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Terrible, bad, die due to lag, too much running?

Are we even talking about the same Saltmarsh?

[jskinner937]

Terrible, bad, die due to lag, too much running?

Are we even talking about the same Saltmarsh?

Yep. The red DA produces unintended lag. I saw it wipe half the party this past HCL going from the hole quest to the croc quest. Literally lag lasting 20-30 secs and not being able to move is pretty scarey on a permadeath server. And its not a one off, it is prone to lag, especially from those 2 quests for some reason.

[helpfulguy1234]

And just so you know, a mount is what solves 99.9% of the problems in wilderness zones, why bother with invis at all outside of a quest.


I actually consider it very poor etiquette to ride through a zone, get red DA and have your party members have to deal with that if they get hit and knocked off their horse.

Invis AND Horse solves your problems. Horse might solve YOURS, but makes problems for other people.

Don't be that guy.

[Caarb]

Its overtuned in heroics but nearly everything that has been released in the SSG era has been.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Yep. The red DA produces unintended lag. I saw it wipe half the party this past HCL going from the hole quest to the croc quest. Literally lag lasting 20-30 secs and not being able to move is pretty scarey on a permadeath server. And its not a one off, it is prone to lag, especially from those 2 quests for some reason.

I thnk that one's on the player, and also not limited to Saltmarsh. Never had any issues with red dungeon alert in all my HCL groups, except for one time in Orchard. Poor etiquette indeed.

[Annex]

Reading through this thread, some of the comments genuinely surprise me.

For me, Legendary Danger at Dunwater is a 12 to 13 minutes quest. The Final Enemy is an 8 to 9 minute quest. The other quests are less than 10 minutes.

A wilderness circuit visiting every rare monster location takes about 10 minutes. Repeating that run until the Standing Stones and the Wailer reach ransack takes maybe 90 minutes and reliably generates 3,000 to 4,000 sentient experience and hundreds of landscape kills. On a few occasions, I came away with 7,000 to 8,000 sentient experience. That may suck for super reaper players but for me, it is an easy exercise that catapulted my sentient weapons from horrible to decent status.

When I want to rack up kills in the wilderness I mount up, ride as fast as I can through as many monster groups as I think I can take, double back, and fight in the center of the bait ball. On ranged I tap some groups, open up some distance, dismount, and slaughter the monsters as they come to me. It's quick and easy.

I can complete the legendary Saltmarsh saga in something like 100 minutes, including the rides from quest to quest. For me, that is faster than any other on-level saga by a good margin.

In my opinion, Borderlands and Saltmarsh were cut from the same cloth and both really helped my characters. Ravenloft remains the best expansion but Saltmarsh actually provides better rewards. Quest length is very much a matter of taste. I prefer longer quests with lots of fighting, lots of nooks and crannies to explore, and lots of optional encounters.

If the heroic Saltmarsh quests need more experience and a difficulty pass, let's campaign for that.

[Oxarhamar]

Reading through this thread, some of the comments genuinely surprise me.

For me, Legendary Danger at Dunwater is a 12 to 13 minutes quest. The Final Enemy is an 8 to 9 minute quest. The other quests are less than 10 minutes.

A wilderness circuit visiting every rare monster location takes about 10 minutes. Repeating that run until the Standing Stones and the Wailer reach ransack takes maybe 90 minutes and reliably generates 3,000 to 4,000 sentient experience and hundreds of landscape kills. On a few occasions, I came away with 7,000 to 8,000 sentient experience. That may suck for super reaper players but for me, it is an easy exercise that catapulted my sentient weapons from horrible to decent status.

When I want to rack up kills in the wilderness I mount up, ride as fast as I can through as many monster groups as I think I can take, double back, and fight in the center of the bait ball. On ranged I tap some groups, open up some distance, dismount, and slaughter the monsters as they come to me. It's quick and easy.

I can complete the legendary Saltmarsh saga in something like 100 minutes, including the rides from quest to quest. For me, that is faster than any other on-level saga by a good margin.

In my opinion, Borderlands and Saltmarsh were cut from the same cloth and both really helped my characters. Ravenloft remains the best expansion but Saltmarsh actually provides better rewards. Quest length is very much a matter of taste. I prefer longer quests with lots of fighting, lots of nooks and crannies to explore, and lots of optional encounters.

If the heroic Saltmarsh quests need more experience and a difficulty pass, let's campaign for that.

The majority of the negative comments are on heroic

[carsonfball]

Terrible, bad, die due to lag, too much running?

Are we even talking about the same Saltmarsh?

Right? It's one of the least laggy places for me. I routinely run the wilderness at level 20 and have never died there (though I've died in other wildernesses that were lower level than that like Orchard).

[jskinner937]

I actually consider it very poor etiquette to ride through a zone, get red DA and have your party members have to deal with that if they get hit and knocked off their horse.

Invis AND Horse solves your problems. Horse might solve YOURS, but makes problems for other people.

Don't be that guy.

1 person doesn’t not constitute a party, nor their actions. I won’t be the guy clearing DA, when no one else cares.

[jskinner937]

I thnk that one's on the player, and also not limited to Saltmarsh. Never had any issues with red dungeon alert in all my HCL groups, except for one time in Orchard. Poor etiquette indeed.

Try moving from those 2 quests yourself. It’s pretty consistent. That particular time I warned the party and they ignored. Not sure how the ettiquette is considered poor in this case.

[Waveman]

For sentient food there is nowhere better. can do the wilderness loop in 11 minutes. quests are ok, but not great.

[marinersfan]

I agree with most others, heroic saltmarsh is not my favorite.

I've never seen this much negative sentiment towards wilderness areas (don't read much on forums) but agree running from quest to quest is one of my least favorite parts of this game. I thought I was in a quiet minority on this issue, but glad to know I'm in good company lol.

Last ran these on hardcore, in a great group - quests are definitely harder than other lvl 3 content and can feel a bit tedious at times. In addition to xp/minute, I think favor/minute is also pretty stingy in these quests.

Usually I just try to run it once/life (which is like 3x/year), R4ish or higher at cap for the rxp.

I'm glad I didn't buy this mini x-pack at full price.

[Qeistalan]

Is it me or does Saltmarsh feel bad to play? especially in heroic
The quests are generally unrewarding too long or too short and the exp rewards are overall all over pretty bad
lots of empty running around from room to room or down long corridors.
The wilderness is pretty cool but as always suffers once major issue as all wilderness totally unrewarding to travel through overall feels kind of empty in some areas, and the exp for slayers is garbagaio

Heroic Saltmarsh is a pot-burning time sink. Much better L3 quests for XP/minute efficiency.

[Wizard1406]

Yeah nerf the CR/health/damage of mobs inside Saltmarsh heroic to be in line with other lvl 3 quests, and buff the XP significantly. Then Saltmarsh heroic will be good to play and done more often.

Currently on heroic it's mostly for maximizing favor on hardcore, or for farming select named items (inefficient to do at level though, better use a high lvl char with sprint boost and wings). I think it's a bit of a waste to design quests that are not run often. Not everybody plays Legendary where Saltmarsh is better.

Legendary maybe needs more xp too, since you have to count travel time.

[droid327]

Just ran it again after a recent TR so fresh impression...

Yeah the xp/min in heroic is wanting. Random crests in the boat quest are annoying. Danger is sooooo long...18 mins for me and I knew what I was doing, just so much running around and sacks of hp mob swarms. That's more than the 15 mins of run speed you get from Boots of Dashing, which I feel is an important milestone for quests under ~L6

[thegreatcthulhu]

Legendary Saltmarsh is my favorite expansion/quest pack of the last 4 years. The Legendary version is very rewarding and I even enjoy the rare monster wilderness run, something I normally detest. I do not play the Heroic version and have no expectations for good equipment from level 1-4 quests. Even for me, those levels go by swiftly. If I were a subscriber, I would save my gold rolls and skip them every single time. Also, a new player will probably find Heroic Saltmarsh way better looking, interesting, and modern than the Harbor.

Overloading levels with quests is a very good thing, allowing players to take different paths through the game with their characters. We need much more of that, not less. Management at Standing Stone Games needs to find a way to quadruple quest output. I would much rather have a new expansion or quest pack than a new class or tree since the latter always comes with class churn causing anger and frustration.

Give me three Saltmarshes every single year, please. That I will buy.



Gianthold and the Storm Horns are _terrible_ wilderness areas. The run from quest to quest in Saltmarsh is easy and intuitive while the same thing in Gianthold and the Storm Horns is just awful. The monster density in Saltmarsh is high enough to make slayers almost bearable. The close range activation system used for Saltmarsh works for me because it keeps Red Alert at a minimum when I hunt the rare monsters.

I do agree that Ravenloft is the gold standard. Back in 2017, I campaigned hard for those Ravenloft guides. The Borderlands wilderness area is also very good. The quests are very tightly grouped which is an advantage over Saltmarsh. The rare monster wilderness run is designed like Saltmarsh, which is great, but Saltmarsh is more rewarding because of the higher level.


Agreed. SM is my favorite expac next to Raven and maybe Feywild. But yeah... also second the Gianthold hate. Of all the parts of the game, I hate Gianthold the most.

I just wish SM's slayer went up to 7500.

[Bjond]

Agreed. SM is my favorite expac next to Raven and maybe Feywild. But yeah... also second the Gianthold hate. Of all the parts of the game, I hate Gianthold the most.

Pretty similar for me. RL > Salt > Dino. I used to think my GH hate was because I didn't know it. Now that I know it well, I still don't like it. It may be something as subconscious and trivial as the dreary landscaping or the defeatist attitude of the giants.

BTW, all that is about epic/legendary play. I want heroic play to be literally deleted from the game. It's so absurdly easy, it's one long unendurable trudge of boredom.

[jskinner937]

Pretty similar for me. RL > Salt > Dino. I used to think my GH hate was because I didn't know it. Now that I know it well, I still don't like it. It may be something as subconscious and trivial as the dreary landscaping or the defeatist attitude of the giants.

BTW, all that is about epic/legendary play. I want heroic play to be literally deleted from the game. It's so absurdly easy, it's one long unendurable trudge of boredom.

Heroic at r4 is easy on character with all Epic PLs, 3x ideal iconic PL, 36 pt build and many racial and class PLs. Combine that with reaper bonuses and yes its scaled too high on power creep from those benefits. Try running heroic r8-10. It is insane how much harder heroics are with high skull reaper scaling compared to LEs even.

As far as deleting heroics, why do you even have an opinion here? Just dont play it. But since there are PLs to gain, many run heroics for those benefits. I actually love heroic gameplay over Epic/LE. Pre-MoTU this game was far more strategic and fun in my opinion before EDs and power creep.

Most people will attest that hardcore league is a success, largely due to renewing the challenge on heroics.

Try rolling a new character and playing r4+ at level 1. People do it on HCL and with or without Permadeath, its not insanely easy as you describe. Or even on your current character, try doing a full run of r10 on heroics. See for yourself the level of difficulty between r10 on Epic/LE vs Heroic.