Update 56 is not acceptable

[Wahnsinnig]

With all the problems we have since the update yesterday it is obvious that update 56 was not in any way ready for release.

What made you decide to go ahead with it in the state it is?

Releasing update 56 is simply not acceptable, whoever made the decision to go ahead with it should be embarrased.

[WhateverDisplay]

Why should they care or change their ways?

As long as there are no consequences, nothing will change.
They are running on an engine, where any change is likely to cause butterfly effects all over the existing code and a full regression test is beyond capacity. Probably dedicated testing as well.
As long as people only complain, but revenue doesnt change, why change their ways.

I would give them, that they are trying to do their best- but there are likely changes lost on code merges or just not merged with the rootbranch casue there is that one little thing I still want to fit into the change.
They are lacking people/knowledge/time to do it properly and this wont change.

I assume its cost vs. use.
People complain, but keep playing. So the revenue isnt diminished. Hiring a QA team, testers, a proper code life cycle and changemanagement will probably cost them a million a year,but not create additional revenue, so why do it.
The current way is working and established

[thebeast1985]

Why should they care or change their ways?

As long as there are no consequences, nothing will change.
They are running on an engine, where any change is likely to cause butterfly effects all over the existing code and a full regression test is beyond capacity. Probably dedicated testing as well.
As long as people only complain, but revenue doesnt change, why change their ways.

I would give them, that they are trying to do their best- but there are likely changes lost on code merges or just not merged with the rootbranch casue there is that one little thing I still want to fit into the change.
They are lacking people/knowledge/time to do it properly and this wont change.

I assume its cost vs. use.
People complain, but keep playing. So the revenue isnt diminished. Hiring a QA team, testers, a proper code life cycle and changemanagement will probably cost them a million a year,but not create additional revenue, so why do it.
The current way is working and established

You see, that's "sad but true"

BUT they put up a test server for a reason, still they don't check (or, most likely) can't check all the mess it rises from an update, the programmers aren't enough I think, so even if they do their best it's impossible to solve such a big task.

Then it gets back to OP

He's right, it's been pushed before it was even close to being test ready (not releasable)

Let's hope they fix the mess *soon* and maybe give us a compensation.. maybe a -10% exp for 5 days and all the items\past lives\tomes that where lost, well, it's time to get back to farm!

i was trying to joke, I think it's the best we can do.

[LightBear]

Everything in this release is free so claiming it was done because of revenue doesn't hold much water.
Releasing it later to fix some more stuff would have been better on the long run because of remaining a positive image and a build of trust.
Now SSG is under various risc because they released a questionable product, and I'm being intentionally vague here as I don't want to damage anyone.

Edit:
To be fair, if the reports are correct and stuff "just" getting misplaced is true and not lost forever it is far less of an issue.
We simply have to wait until the invisible becomes visible again and/or have to keep pulling things out of TR-Cache.

The only thing I have found to be a real issue is that doing inventory work across mules without closing the client (so just a log off / log in routine) is a big no-no right now.
From time to time you wind up with your old bank window and the new bank window while you can see stuff move from one window to the next.

For the QA department of SSG, doing a Slow-Loading-Test really is a thing. You should be able to throttle the bandwidth and test its effects.
Not just for for this new banking system, try to do this slow loading test for a fully loaded completionist character with all the tomes you can think of while doing a TR of some sort.

[thebeast1985]

Everything in this release is free so claiming it was done because of revenue doesn't hold much water.
Releasing it later to fix some more stuff would have been better on the long run because of remaining a positive image and a build of trust.
Now SSG is under various risc because they released a questionable product, and I'm being intentionally vague here as I don't want to damage anyone.

I'm sorry but you are wrong.

There is a LOT of value in this update.

3x3 past lives to farm to get back to "elitist completionist"

so there is a lot ov value, like otto boxes (for the lazy) potions for the tired of the infinite grind...

So there is a LOT of value, and I completely understand it, it's fine (even if I, humbly, could suggest some changes to reduce the pain of farming)

Releasing before it's ready to build trust, sadly this company has already proven of not being capable of addressing many of the issues players, the code, the whole thing has.
And honestly I think it's not completely their fauld too.


SSG is not in various risks as long as the whales keep on whailing, and it seems that this game has a lot of whales.

As loong as they keep this game alive, we (the one who love the game, not the company, there was loads of problem with turbine, there was problem with all the ones that kept the game, alive, not in a good state, just, alive) will keep on giving them money, beacause we love the game. that's all.

[Strider1963]

With all the problems we have since the update yesterday it is obvious that update 56 was not in any way ready for release.

What made you decide to go ahead with it in the state it is?

Releasing update 56 is simply not acceptable, whoever made the decision to go ahead with it should be embarrased.

Nothing has changed. The players on live servers are the final bug testers. Happens every update.

[Martininice]

I'm sorry but you are wrong.

There is a LOT of value in this update.

3x3 past lives to farm to get back to "elitist completionist"

so there is a lot ov value, like otto boxes (for the lazy) potions for the tired of the infinite grind...

So there is a LOT of value, and I completely understand it, it's fine (even if I, humbly, could suggest some changes to reduce the pain of farming)

Releasing before it's ready to build trust, sadly this company has already proven of not being capable of addressing many of the issues players, the code, the whole thing has.
And honestly I think it's not completely their fauld too.


SSG is not in various risks as long as the whales keep on whailing, and it seems that this game has a lot of whales.

As loong as they keep this game alive, we (the one who love the game, not the company, there was loads of problem with turbine, there was problem with all the ones that kept the game, alive, not in a good state, just, alive) will keep on giving them money, beacause we love the game. that's all.

That may shock you, but many of us "elitist completionists" are happy to get new things to do and do not view new classes and lifes as a burden.

[archest]

they aren't going to find all of the bugs on testing .
i think it was a major code change to the bank TR shared and character.
Not sure if it complete as talk of increasing max bank space was had prior to this release but was not implemented at least I do not think it was within this release and is going to be in a future release.
so thinking most of this is free because it sets up new future design in the game software engineering.

[Holyshank]

FS nerf is over the top. doing less than a 1/4 of the damage I was doing yesterday before update.

[Wizard1406]

Why should they care or change their ways?

As long as there are no consequences, nothing will change.
They are running on an engine, where any change is likely to cause butterfly effects all over the existing code and a full regression test is beyond capacity. Probably dedicated testing as well.


This is really unfortunate. DDO's engine seems incapable of properly running modern DDO (epic & legendary levels, thousands of spells, effects, enhancements etc, many thousands of different items). So only DDO "A realm reborn" (with completely new engine) could properly fix the problems?

[fatherpirate]

With all the problems we have since the update yesterday it is obvious that update 56 was not in any way ready for release.

What made you decide to go ahead with it in the state it is?

Releasing update 56 is simply not acceptable, whoever made the decision to go ahead with it should be embarrased.

To that I say .....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnW0oi7iPQ4

[Tharlak]

Taking a heroic level on a Cleric and found that the Heal Skill is now a cross class skill. Gotta be a bug. Because cleric and heal... really.

[mikarddo]

FS nerf is over the top. doing less than a 1/4 of the damage I was doing yesterday before update.

All the math and the tests done on Lam show a significant reduction in dps, but none show anywhere near a 75% reduction.

So, either you are grossly exaggerating which does not help at all or your probably should post some actual numbers showing such a huge reduction.

So, by all means please post the numbers to back your claim up.

[jskinner937]

You see, that's "sad but true"

BUT they put up a test server for a reason, still they don't check (or, most likely) can't check all the mess it rises from an update, the programmers aren't enough I think, so even if they do their best it's impossible to solve such a big task.

Then it gets back to OP

He's right, it's been pushed before it was even close to being test ready (not releasable)

Let's hope they fix the mess *soon* and maybe give us a compensation.. maybe a -10% exp for 5 days and all the items\past lives\tomes that where lost, well, it's time to get back to farm!

i was trying to joke, I think it's the best we can do.

They have their favorites they listen to and that is it. I blame the producer for not directing their staff away from places like discord and other social media outlets. I think it is pretty obvious after this last update, where the Devs are getting feedback for certain changes , Sonic blast and monster damage. Although on the forums, everyone’s voice is heard, it is not registered. I would say we should bombard discord like we do the forums, but personally I don’t like the history of vulnerability there.

[Sqrlmonger]

This release has been one of the most unprofessional and embarrassing patches I have ever seen a dev team release.

If I or my colleagues did work like this we would be updating our resumes before lunch. Full Stop.

Their lack of QA or whatever is what it is, they don't control who is/isn't hired. But to push this live in the state it was in is so far beyond any professional standard I still can't believe they did it.

It would be one thing if everything looked clean on Lamma, and they thought they were good. But having played on Lamma for this update and seeing the comments of others it seems clear they knew bugs existed and pressed forward anyways.

The benefit of the doubt I will give them is that in my experience it is management setting unrealistic goals and deadlines that creates problems. I sincerely hope this is the case here and that this fiasco was not driven by the development team itself.

Though I suspect there are likely failures to go around on this one.

The good news here is that this is just a video game and not a critical piece of infrastructure that results in the eastern half of the US grinding to a halt overnight if it fails. Players should take a breath, take the weekend and give them time to clean it up.

How they handle the cleanup of this mess will tell me a lot.

[SiliconScout]

All the math and the tests done on Lam show a significant reduction in dps, but none show anywhere near a 75% reduction.

So, either you are grossly exaggerating which does not help at all or your probably should post some actual numbers showing such a huge reduction.

So, by all means please post the numbers to back your claim up.Here's what I noticed.

PRE update when a hound appeared I could sometimes kill it with just one shot of my sun ray (maybe 20% of the time) but pretty much always killed it with a sun ray and nimbus shot VERY rarely did I toss in a cometfall there, maybe 1 in 20 hounds.

Yesterday it was nimbus - sun ray - cometfall - nimbus - Holy Smite - Sun Ray - Nimbus - Holy Smite

Now this would be AT A MINIMUM. It wasn't unusual to have to fire a another nimbus - sunray - Smite combo and about one if 4 times I got in a second cometfall off the 20 second cooldown.

I should stress that I am premium and these quests were being run on NORMAL. That is a pretty big change and suddenly Soloing is a LOT more dangerous.

If I had known this big a hit was coming I would not have decided to main FvS on the Hard Core server and instead probably gone with a Sorc or a 2HF Barb or Pally.

[Arjen]

Updates are always like this - we can't pretend this is the first time that lots of bugs have been called out on the test and then released into production without so much as an acknowledgement. This is their standard operating procedure because we facilitate this behavior by continuing to support the game. They have no motivation to change so why would SSG as a business incur more expense in the form of QA? It's a very straightforward business decision.

I think what really irks me this time is that not only is this update a trainwreck from a "do the devs understand what makes the game compelling and fun” (nerfs/making TOEE take longer/archetypes that are half baked at best) but that they also broke banking and reincarnation all at the same time. It’s just a baffling combination of incompetence and a lack awareness of what makes their own game complelling. That’s where I question my continued interest in supporting this operation.

[thebeast1985]

That may shock you, but many of us "elitist completionists" are happy to get new things to do and do not view new classes and lifes as a burden.

I'm sorry if my thought hurt your feelings, but it wasn't meant to offend anyone.

I only stated that.

TO BE FAIR, i would love to be an elitist completionist oto, but I don't have the tools for that. not many friends, on a bad, baaaad bad server (G.land) and not so much time to give to the game as i would like to (i don't want to cheat my way with otto's)

[droid327]

Bugs are pro forma for updates, yes. And I can kinda give them a pass on the shared bank bugs, because by virtue of how its populated entirely with transfers, no one actually can test an actual copy of their shared bank. They should have picked one server to clone as the test server, so at least people from that server would have their entire set of Live assets there to play with

However, that's where their rope ends. The broken-advancement bugs existed in multiple builds on Lama, were reportedly fixed, but kept persisting the next version, and that continued all the way to Live. Special attacks not WAI were reported in multiple builds and persisted through the next, and we see that with WWA now, though that was a late entry to the process.

But the biggest issue is just the total lack of balance. New things are critically underpowered. Old things are critically overnerfed. New designs are not even internally balanced against their own elements. Archetypes are pretty much DOA, and they're taking existing builds down with them. It just feels so haphazardly thrown together with no sense of what numbers need to be to actually work in-game and accomplish what the builds are supposed to be able to do.

[scut207]

Bugs are pro forma for updates, yes. And I can kinda give them a pass on the shared bank bugs, because by virtue of how its populated entirely with transfers, no one actually can test an actual copy of their shared bank. They should have picked one server to clone as the test server, so at least people from that server would have their entire set of Live assets there to play with

However, that's where their rope ends. The broken-advancement bugs existed in multiple builds on Lama, were reportedly fixed, but kept persisting the next version, and that continued all the way to Live. Special attacks not WAI were reported in multiple builds and persisted through the next, and we see that with WWA now, though that was a late entry to the process.

But the biggest issue is just the total lack of balance. New things are critically underpowered. Old things are critically overnerfed. New designs are not even internally balanced against their own elements. Archetypes are pretty much DOA, and they're taking existing builds down with them. It just feels so haphazardly thrown together with no sense of what numbers need to be to actually work in-game and accomplish what the builds are supposed to be able to do.

well said, I'll admit I'm overly salty due to the Sonic Blast nerf. It was a mainstay of my early caster repertoire. It made being a bard,wiz or sorc level 1-5 not completely a dental office visit.

However, it seems that there is an unwritten rule that after 3 reviews on Lam they push the patch regardless of the state of the product.

They know they have people hooked, since it takes 2-4 years(for anyone who cant play all day) of playing to max a character and a lot of people are willing to ignore a sunk cost fallacy.

[Arjen]

They know they have people hooked, since it takes 2-4 years(for anyone who cant play all day) of playing to max a character and a lot of people are willing to ignore a sunk cost fallacy.

This spot on and a big reason why we've suffered through much of this shoddy work. The fact that I feel compelled to log in here and complain is a testament to the sunk cost!

My main issue with this update is that there is massive dissonance (for me anyway) about the product they are turning into (see underpowered/half baked archetypes) and what I find fun. Don't feel like playing today, that's for sure!

I am curious if they are going to announce an Otto's box sale on Thursday before TRing works - that ought to be fun!

[Knightrose]

I don't even understand the logic behind heavy nerfing. If an ability or item is reduced to uselessness then why even have it as an option? You don't string a guitar by 'Hulk twirling' the tuning pegs. Easy, slowly and with attention. SSG is running their numbers but there's no way that accounts for the near infinite nuance of combat tactics in DDO. Which, by the way, is a major reason most of us love the game. It's unique and requires adaptation to play. It is also the reason so many of us detect the failure of such broad changes because we play the game a whole lot more than its owners.

[Arjen]

I am curious if they are going to announce an Otto's box sale on Thursday before TRing works - that ought to be fun!

I love how this week's sales have been pushed to Friday - can't sell Otto's boxes if you can't TR. Comedy and tragedy all at once!

[TedSandyman]

I am barely able to play with the game simply closing unexpectedly.

I understand that they cant catch everything on an update, but this one seems to affect me particularly badly and is really affecting my ability to play.

And worst is haven't really heard anything from SSG about any update or fixes. They are probably overwhelmed at this point.

[ShifterThePirate]

Rollback to previous patch in 3...2...1... :p

[atralyx]

Every big update has hurt the game...the dandy bow animation with great nerfs, the nerfs to certain arcane spells, at some point they had simplified dungeons by cutting off many options, now the bard, fvs and cleric, and so much more ...it just keeps coming and coming, old bugs from forever ago still exist, the core client has no upgrades...in the least significate. Oh and remember when they tried to force charges on us, the do a skill 3 times and a fourth to set it off...when we were all saying no. It's all so sad, and each time pushes me further from the game...i would have quit years ago if there existed any other game even close to ddo, i love the game, i hate what it has become.

This is like keeping your grandpa on life support because you has nice memories together....time to put him down, he's begging for death!

[Onyxia2019]

I would gladly accept a patch rollback. With so many unforeseen issues, there should be a set point when you stop chasing that rabbit down the hole.
There is nothing wrong with admitting there are larger issues at play. Take the information gained and plan a better rollout for the next go around.