Handwrap Pali?

[garynash7070]

So we get a handwrap using Dex based Tabaxi race then a Handwrap based Pali Archetype that is charisma based?

Why?

Don’t recall a lot of peeps asking for a Handwrap Pali.

Someone want to make it make sense? I’m sure some will like it, but overall it is a miss in my book.

[droid327]

A) they're trying to make Handwraps viable for more than just Monks. They tried to make Razorclaw a Handwraps Barb...that fell through. Now they're trying a Handwraps Pal, which ironically excludes Razorclaws...

B) Tabaxi isnt a Handwraps race...they're geared towards SWF Light weapons. But they also have CHA in their racial cores, so they'd make a really good Fist too. And 30% runspeed on top of 20% for pure Fist

C) Sacred Fist is a thing in actual D&D, they didnt just make it up because they wanted a punchadin

[Zavier]

C) Sacred Fist is a thing in actual D&D, they didnt just make it up because they wanted a punchadin

Not when I played, 35+ years ago.

And not until 6 years ago.

Btw...Get out of my moat.

[unbongwah]

B) Tabaxi isnt a Handwraps race
Nimble Cat I: +1% Dodge, +1 Maximum Dexterity Bonus in Light Armor. You gain Dexterity to Hit with Dagger, Handaxe, Handwraps, Kama, Kukri, Light Hammer, Light Mace, Light Pick, Rapier, Short Sword, Sickle, or while Unarmed or in a Druid animal form.
Improved Nimble Cat: You gain Dexterity to Damage with Dagger, Handaxe, Handwraps, Kama, Kukri, Light Hammer, Light Mace, Light Pick, Rapier, Short Sword, Sickle, or while Unarmed or in a Druid animal form.

Tested on Lama, DEX-based Tabaxi Sacred Fist worked fine. Something like 41 Sacred Fist / 11 Tabaxi / 14 Horizon Walker was my baseline AP spread.

Not when I played, 35+ years ago.

And not until 6 years ago.
Sacred Fist (https://dndtools.net/classes/sacred-fist/) is a 3E prestige class. It's open to any divine caster which meets the pre-reqs, not just paladins. It was included in Defenders of the Faith (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenders_of_the_Faith_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)) 21 years ago, making it a pretty early addition to 3E. This isn't its first CRPG incarnation either; it was also available in NWN 2 (https://nwn2.fandom.com/wiki/Sacred_Fist) about 15 years ago.

Everything in DDO has PnP roots but - as is so often the case - gets garbled in translation into an action MMO.

[droid327]

Tested on Lama, DEX-based Tabaxi Sacred Fist worked fine. Something like 41 Sacred Fist / 11 Tabaxi / 14 Horizon Walker was my baseline AP spread.



Being simply compatible with handwraps is different than being a race deliberately intended to complement and align with handwraps builds, like Razorclaw was

[garynash7070]

Nimble Cat I: +1% Dodge, +1 Maximum Dexterity Bonus in Light Armor. You gain Dexterity to Hit with Dagger, Handaxe, Handwraps, Kama, Kukri, Light Hammer, Light Mace, Light Pick, Rapier, Short Sword, Sickle, or while Unarmed or in a Druid animal form.
Improved Nimble Cat: You gain Dexterity to Damage with Dagger, Handaxe, Handwraps, Kama, Kukri, Light Hammer, Light Mace, Light Pick, Rapier, Short Sword, Sickle, or while Unarmed or in a Druid animal form.

Tested on Lama, DEX-based Tabaxi Sacred Fist worked fine. Something like 41 Sacred Fist / 11 Tabaxi / 14 Horizon Walker was my baseline AP spread.

Sacred Fist (https://dndtools.net/classes/sacred-fist/) is a 3E prestige class. It's open to any divine caster which meets the pre-reqs, not just paladins. It was included in Defenders of the Faith (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenders_of_the_Faith_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)) 21 years ago, making it a pretty early addition to 3E. This isn't its first CRPG incarnation either; it was also available in NWN 2 (https://nwn2.fandom.com/wiki/Sacred_Fist) about 15 years ago.

Everything in DDO has PnP roots but - as is so often the case - gets garbled in translation into an action MMO.


I get it. I played PnP in the 70’s and 80’s. I get origins etc. What I don’t get is: who asked for it? You’d think they’d kinda look back over the years and try to gear things a bit more to the player base wants if possible. Anywho. I won’t be playing one. To everyone else have fun.

[Martininice]

Anywho. I won’t be playing one. To everyone else have fun.

thanks for keeping us in the loop

[Khurse]

It's an interesting idea.

The question though isn't :Why did they make a handwrap Paladin"

It's 'Why did they gave the Handwrap Paladin the Radiant Servant tree?"

A bunch of us asked on the Lammania forums, and received silence ...

I'm absolutely going to try it.

But I don't understand the concept of giving a tree effectively less DPS than the Shintao tree, (already one of the lower effective DPS trees) and the devs being like " Don't worry if you don't do as much DPS as a Monk, because we're also giving you access to a healing tree! So you'll have mediocre healing to go along with your sad little DPS!"

Didn't get a lot of time to try it on Lammania, so entirely possible I missed something or am simply wrong, but it seems ..questionable.

[Vyrtigo]

It's an interesting idea.

The question though isn't :Why did they make a handwrap Paladin"

It's 'Why did they gave the Handwrap Paladin the Radiant Servant tree?"

A bunch of us asked on the Lammania forums, and received silence ...

I'm absolutely going to try it.

But I don't understand the concept of giving a tree effectively less DPS than the Shintao tree, (already one of the lower effective DPS trees) and the devs being like " Don't worry if you don't do as much DPS as a Monk, because we're also giving you access to a healing tree! So you'll have mediocre healing to go along with your sad little DPS!"

Didn't get a lot of time to try it on Lammania, so entirely possible I missed something or am simply wrong, but it seems ..questionable.

Yeah I didn't understand the Radiant Servant tree either, I had suggested they treat this as a pact and include Enlighted Spirit instead which may plausibly of been over powered but on the other hand I haven't seen a X warlock/Y Monk build anywhere yet either. But the idea that you had a damaging aura vs a healing aura seemed awesome to me.

[droid327]

Yeah I didn't understand the Radiant Servant tree either, I had suggested they treat this as a pact and include Enlighted Spirit instead which may plausibly of been over powered but on the other hand I haven't seen a X warlock/Y Monk build anywhere yet either. But the idea that you had a damaging aura vs a healing aura seemed awesome to me.

ES would have been weird since its a spellpower-based tree and Paladin is not a spellpower-based caster

Rad Serv is also a weird tree though. But, really, the Fist tree is the whole point of the archetype, so just about anything be weird, because who's going to take T5 in anything but Fist on a Fist?

I think Kensei would have been the best pairing since its a nice offensive "support" tree and offers good extras for Ki and Robes users, and gives you the option to do a centering build with any melee weapon if you want to T5 that tree. And that gives you a spectrum to build your Fists, from offensive (Fist+Kensei) to defensive (Fist+Sac Def). But that goes against the D&D lore of Fists, who forsake all weapons (even though it does actually let you use weapons in game). Also you'd have to figure out the feat reqs since Paladin cant take actual Fighter feats.

Occult Slayer might have also been a good option. It kinda fits the archetype as a "hunter of evil mages" specialization for Fist Paladins, who forms a mystic bond with his weapons (ie his fists) and has preternatural defenses of spirit and mind. And, unlike Kensei, its something you can never get on a Paladin by multiclassing. The Hamp in the cores there would make up for the Hamp you're sorely lacking from KotC. But all the MRR bonuses would be largely wasted on a Robes build (though that's already true considering you get 25 MRR in Sac Def for 6 points plus Angelskin) and you'd have to figure out what to do instead of the Rage enhancements - maybe just +will and fort saves while centered...