Can we please get a full time Hard Core Server?

[danjacobsmith]

With the Hard Core server almost half way done its season, I'm wondering if there's other people out there like me, that are bored with the zero risk environment of standard servers?

Would it be possible for us to get a full time Hard Core server that just has the basic rules of the other servers? Between seasons, it would be nice to move our characters to a server that still has the one life mechanic, but doesn't keep the 2 level gap and the hounds?

In other games with seasons, like Path of Exile, they have a full time Hard Core server so players can play their old characters under the same conditions, and I think there's a lot of people who would be interested in this.

I personally came back to play on this new Hard Core server, and I'm not really interested in continuing to play this game on regular servers.

Are there other people out there like me who want access to a full time perma-death server?

[kmoustakas]

Not unless they merge all other servers.

[droid327]

If you want that restriction all the time, then simply restrict yourself. If you need other people with the same restriction, join a perma death guild

The seasonality is the whole point of hard core....both from the players side, having everyone start fresh from scratch at the same time...and from a business side, having all the revenue from people p2wing and buying their boosts each season, and buying unlocks they otherwise would just unlock for free

[Oxarhamar]

If you want that restriction all the time, then simply restrict yourself. If you need other people with the same restriction, join a perma death guild

The seasonality is the whole point of hard core....both from the players side, having everyone start fresh from scratch at the same time...and from a business side, having all the revenue from people p2wing and buying their boosts each season, and buying unlocks they otherwise would just unlock for free

This

[KoobTheProud]

They'll never do this because it would provide an alternate way to play DDO in an environment that encouraged that play style.

This is like the Newbie server I have pressed for at times. It would bare the big lie in DDO, which is that people prefer the grind to the game. In fact people likely would prefer the game to the grind and that's a risk SSG is unlikely to take.

[BlueLiger]

Agreed that if they were to da a permanent Hardcore Server(which I don't believe they are likely to). They would need to allow cross server grouping or a server merge as the regular servers empty during hardcore season especially around mid season when things are in full swing over there. I've tried 3 times in the last few days to get raids going on Sarlona checking to make sure enough level 29+ levels were on to even get a group together and... crickets each time, no-one really interested at all in PUG Raids and the ones I've joined around 3 aswell also fell flat due to noone else bar myself and maybe up to 2 others at most showing.

[drathdragon]

No

and i don't even fully understand the reasons of the O.P. for what he wrote.

To have a regular server with a 'renewn' challenge the permadeath is not the right thing to do.
We have already Reaper, maybe devs could have other ideas and invent something else.. idk.

HardCoreLeague is an idea born to be a single event, that could be repeated, but still a temporary server moment.
The stress is super high and the curve of appealing is very short, i saw some players already tired after just 1 week of it.

[clagor]

I am only a casual player and I like to play new content and from time to time some variations in the game.

Personally, I find it hard to play hardcore because one simple mistake (or even just bad luck) and that was it with your character. (reroll and repeat from beginning...)
On the normal servers I like the progression of the character but also rarely reincarnate (I do not like to repeat many quests again...)

I often thought about why we cannot get a hardcore like mode per quest instead of per server. (e.g. Reaper Hardcore)
If you die in a quest, you cannot be resurrected but you can stay until the end of the quest to look how the rest of the party progress and get normal experience at the end.
If you survive the quest until end, you can get some bonus experience in addition and collect a special kind of price/score/collectable etc.

Just my initial thoughts when I read about the hardcore topic...

[fatherpirate]

I agree and have asked for it several times in several ways ...
and
SSG answer is NO

Regardless of your wishes, you are considered 'content' by other players
who want you to fill in their raid parties to run raids they have done
a zillion times because they are missing some shiny item.

Now prepare for a dozen posts reminding you you can always join a permadeath guild
( I think there are like 2 active) that have far more restrictive rules than
HCL making most of them 'unfun'. or you can just pretend it is HCL
and delete yourself.

I personally hope they pretend to have a full raid party
and charge in there solo. :-)

So welcome to the 'resistance'.

[Martininice]

I agree and have asked for it several times in several ways ...
and
SSG answer is NO

Regardless of your wishes, you are considered 'content' by other players
who want you to fill in their raid parties to run raids they have done
a zillion times because they are missing some shiny item.

Now prepare for a dozen posts reminding you you can always join a permadeath guild
( I think there are like 2 active) that have far more restrictive rules than
HCL making most of them 'unfun'. or you can just pretend it is HCL
and delete yourself.

I personally hope they pretend to have a full raid party
and charge in there solo. :-)

So welcome to the 'resistance'.

That self-styled rebel pose of yours has become trite years ago. Please invent a new act.

[fatherpirate]

I am not a rebel.
I am OLD.

My 'style' is burned in hard.

I don't change for anyone.

Have a nice day.

[Mofus]

Would rather have a permanent legacy server, level cap 20.

[fatherpirate]

What I would prefer (and not get)

would be 1 mega public server and allow anyone who is VIP to open a private server
(like fallout 76) that the VIP person set the rules (out of a set of available rules)
and invite any guild mates or friends to join them.

private server toons stay on the private server, public stay on the public.

that would be my preference.

chance for that? less than zero.
(for several reasons)

[Oxarhamar]

I agree and have asked for it several times in several ways ...
and
SSG answer is NO

Regardless of your wishes, you are considered 'content' by other players
who want you to fill in their raid parties to run raids they have done
a zillion times because they are missing some shiny item.

Now prepare for a dozen posts reminding you you can always join a permadeath guild
( I think there are like 2 active) that have far more restrictive rules than
HCL making most of them 'unfun'. or you can just pretend it is HCL
and delete yourself.

I personally hope they pretend to have a full raid party
and charge in there solo. :-)

So welcome to the 'resistance'.

No one is wants to force you to join their group

What they do want is to play with others it is an MMO

As previously mentioned it could work if we had cross server grouping

You can still solo all you want

If permadeath guild rules are too restrictive for you start your own thing or better yet play by your own rules since you are solo anyway

[Oxarhamar]

What I would prefer (and not get)

would be 1 mega public server and allow anyone who is VIP to open a private server
(like fallout 76) that the VIP person set the rules (out of a set of available rules)
and invite any guild mates or friends to join them.

private server toons stay on the private server, public stay on the public.

that would be my preference.

chance for that? less than zero.
(for several reasons)

Yeah we will never get private servers

You can enforce whatever rules you want on yourself especially if you are solo

[TedSandyman]

It seems to me there are an awful lot of players on the hardcore server. I believe that one of the issues with hardcore that many people have is that it makes the main servers like ghost towns for a while.

So it is obvious that people in general do like the hardcore server.

So, if a lot of people like the hardcore server and play the hardcore server is it too much of a stretch to ask for a permanent hardcore server?

And as for you nay sayers who hate the idea, then there is a simple answer for you too. Don't play the new server. No one would be making you play the new server. By all means express your opinion, but understand some of us would like the idea and if you don't then go your own way. All the OP is asking is to be allowed to go his own way.

I find the hardcore server the best part of this game and I for one completely agree with the OP and think a permanent hardcore server would be awesome.

And for those of you saying just delete your character or join a permadeath guild, it isn't quite the same. I personally couldn't bring myself to delete a character and throw all that gear away. I couldn't do it on my own and I probably wouldn't. I wish it were so easy. The temptation is too great.

The only way it would work for me and probably for a lot of the people who play hardcore is if it is built into the game.

Believe it or not, I have got all the rewards I believe I will be able to get but I am still creating and playing characters on the hardcore server. I just prefer it and the game seems more meaningful to me and a lot more enjoyable. Those stupid hounds however, I could do without those. I hate this season worse than any of the others, but I still find it way more thrilling and satisfying than the normal servers.

With all of that said, I don't think a hardcore server would be sustainable. Near the end of the season, when all of the people have got their rewards or given up, the hardcore server becomes a ghost town.

Just as I don't think I could impose permadeath on myself, I don't believe others would play the game for the simply enjoyment of it. There would have to be continuously updating rewards to keep most people's interest for any real length of time in a perma-permadeath server.

[Oxarhamar]

Snip~
With all of that said, I don't think a hardcore server would be sustainable. Near the end of the season, when all of the people have got their rewards or given up, the hardcore server becomes a ghost town.

Just as I don't think I could impose permadeath on myself, I don't believe others would play the game for the simply enjoyment of it. There would have to be continuously updating rewards to keep most people's interest for any real length of time in a permadeath server.


This

There are those who enjoy the gameplay and then there are those who want the bragging right cosmetic

I don’t think the server would be nearly as populated without the seasons rewards or leaderboards

What hardcore does do is show how well grouping works with a concentrated population

[OfElectricMen]

No.

Don't accept a rez when offered. When your character dies, delete and roll a new one. Bing bang boom, you've got what you want.

[Eantarus]

They would need to allow cross server grouping

Why are you phrasing this as if cross-server grouping already exists, but we are simply forbidden from using it?

[KoobTheProud]

This

There are those who enjoy the gameplay and then there are those who want the bragging right cosmetic

I don’t think the server would be nearly as populated without the seasons rewards or leaderboards

What hardcore does do is show how well grouping works with a concentrated population

The bragging right cosmetic could become a multi-year goal for people who wanted the HC playstyle but don't have the time to grind the way people getting the rewards do now.

[KoobTheProud]

No.

Don't accept a rez when offered. When your character dies, delete and roll a new one. Bing bang boom, you've got what you want.

It's not that simple. Part of the adrenaline in HCL is that if you die it is all over and there's nothing you can do about that but start over.

[Eantarus]

It's not that simple. Part of the adrenaline in HCL is that if you die it is all over and there's nothing you can do about that but start over.

There's nothing stopping you from self-imposing that kind of ridiculous play-style and thus re-create the sensation on life.

[KoobTheProud]

There's nothing stopping you from self-imposing that kind of ridiculous play-style and thus re-create the sensation on life.

It's not the same thing. The difference between self-imposed and externally imposed penalties is huge. The reason is inability to fudge the results.

[Eantarus]

It's not the same thing. The difference between self-imposed and externally imposed penalties is huge. The reason is inability to fudge the results.

All that means is when you die to lag you can choose not to. Permadeath is the dumbest game mechanic ever invented, no matter how you implement it.

[KoobTheProud]

All that means is when you die to lag you can choose not to. Permadeath is the dumbest game mechanic ever invented, no matter how you implement it.

I understand your perspective on this however it really doesn't apply to me and I think the odds are it doesn't apply to many other players also.

I've played HC on regular servers and also on HCL and the only time that I felt the adrenaline on the other servers is when there were other HC players involved. I get the adrenaline all the time solo on HCL.

[Isolani]

This

There are those who enjoy the gameplay and then there are those who want the bragging right cosmetic

I don’t think the server would be nearly as populated without the seasons rewards or leaderboards

What hardcore does do is show how well grouping works with a concentrated population

I don't even try for the leader boards. I just get the easy L20/1750 favor cosmetics. Then play some reapers until I die. I would have no interest in playing a full time permadeath though. I can't imagine it would be much of a money maker for SSG either. I don't think many people would spend much money on their characters on a permadeath server because you are going to die from something eventually. HCL probably makes a lot of money because it is limited duration, and even if you buy a tome or whatever for a character and then die, you can move the character to your normal server soon anyway. Not to mention people buying astral shard airships and upgrades, I'm sure tons of loot rerolls, etc. I wouldn't do any of that stuff on a permadeath server, but I spend a lot on HCL. HCL isn't permadeath, just temporary death for a couple months, nothing is really lost when you die.

[AlcoArgo]

No. Hardcore is a pain in the ass as it is because it drains the populations of the rest of the servers while it is going.

If you want to play hardcore on a regular server, just delete your toon when you die. Simple.

[Eantarus]

I understand your perspective on this however it really doesn't apply to me and I think the odds are it doesn't apply to many other players also.

The overwhelming majority of players on HCL play it for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with liking permadeath. The only reason permadeath exists at all as the central mechanic of HCL is because there are literally no other options. The economics coupled with the nature of DDO as a game make it the only plausible way for SSG to do a painful cash-grab. The fact that idiot permadeathers view it as "legitimizing" their stupid playstyle makes me sick.



I've played HC on regular servers and also on HCL and the only time that I felt the adrenaline on the other servers is when there were other HC players involved. I get the adrenaline all the time solo on HCL.

What I'm hearing is that ya need to find a permadeath group to play with. Or to go play a different game entirely. There's tons of MMOs out there offering terrible mechanics.

[Bjond]

get a full time Hard Core server

OMG, my racial completionist just died from falling while running down the market steps!!!

I've had a ticket open for weeks and SSG isn't responding. They are so evil.

[fatherpirate]

I will tell you a secret,

ANYTHING that might reduce the established Vet players
raid group number will be opposed strongly.

They don't care what you like, or your play style.
All the care about is their fun.

so, when you understand that ... then you know why they say what they say.

They are intensely against anything that might adversely effect their daily raids.

Their choice.

[Eantarus]

They are intensely against anything that might adversely effect their daily raids.


Then how did this stupid HCL even get off the ground? Raids completely die every time this garbage starts up.

[adamkatt]

WE have had permadeath guilds as far back as i can remember....2006... Join one.. if you cant restrict yourself then you dont really want it...

[Oxarhamar]

I will tell you a secret,

ANYTHING that might reduce the established Vet players
raid group number will be opposed strongly.

They don't care what you like, or your play style.
All the care about is their fun.

so, when you understand that ... then you know why they say what they say.

They are intensely against anything that might adversely effect their daily raids.

Their choice.

It’s no secret that HCL has been a negative effect on regular servers

Cross server play would help buffer this

If you are soloing anyway no one really cares what they care about is temporarily losing guild members

It is an MMO dividing an already divided population is not a bonus

YW

[Annex]

I would vote 'yes' for the creation of a permanent hard core server, with rules broadly agreed upon by the players of that server, as long as a sufficient number of players would use it to justify the cost, it does not require substantial developer time to create, and the existence of such a server does not influence future class adjustments so as to make my play experience on my server worse. If a hard core server so created flourishes and survives, I will feel happiness for the players of that server and wish them well.

I would never play on such a server, nor vote on the rules to govern it.

If a person finds happiness in an activity I do not enjoy, and engaging in that activity does not harm me, let him or her engage in the activity and be happy.

I do not believe it is reasonable to require even one person to play on my server, under my preferred rules, just to maintain a certain population number. When possible, my happiness should not be predicated on the unhappiness of another person. There are situations where cohabitation requires concessions with regards happiness, but I do not feel this is such a situation.

[Oxarhamar]

I would vote 'yes' for the creation of a permanent hard core server, with rules broadly agreed upon by the players of that server, as long as a sufficient number of players would use it to justify the cost, it does not require substantial developer time to create, and the existence of such a server does not influence future class adjustments so as to make my play experience on my server worse. If a hard core server so created flourishes and survives, I will feel happiness for the players of that server and wish them well.

I would never play on such a server, nor vote on the rules to govern it.

If a person finds happiness in an activity I do not enjoy, and engaging in that activity does not harm me, let him or her engage in the activity and be happy.

I do not believe it is reasonable to require even one person to play on my server, under my preferred rules, just to maintain a certain population number. When possible, my happiness should not be predicated on the unhappiness of another person. There are situations where cohabitation requires concessions with regards happiness, but I do not feel this is such a situation.

HCL has been a bringing of more than a few nerfs so it definitely influences future class adjustment

[Nite_Prowler]

Anyone who wants a permanent hardcore server can create or join a perma-death guild.

The only benefit I see to the HCS is the shiny trinkets and cosmetics and I honestly don't give two copper coins for cosmetics or shiny things.

The HCS has been an absolute disaster for regular players who don't care about bragging rights or shiny trinkets.

As far as I can tell, the HCS is nothing but a lame excuse for SSG to generate quick cash from people too wrapped up in their egos to simply play the game as designed.

They'd rather brag about some lame shiny trinket they found.

[Annex]

HCL has been a bringing of more than a few nerfs so it definitely influences future class adjustment

In at least three games, the developers promised not to change classes for player versus player combat but did so anyway, ruining characters I played. Hardcore exerts a similar adjustment force and, as you write, the same sort of thing already happened here. I included the 'no change' clause in my response precisely for this reason.

Permanent hardcore causing permanent population drops on normal servers does concern me. This issue comes up often and I considered many ramifications before deciding to support the break away players. After the novelty wears off, I feel that permanent hardcore would appeal to a different kind of player than the standard servers, causing both to reach equilibrium at a higher total player population. Three permanent hardcore server rules would facilitate this: no reincarnation, 40 Reaper Points maximum, and free transfer at any time from permanent hardcore to a standard server. However, permanent hardcore server players need to decide on their own rules, not me.

Cool heads definitely must prevail here and I sincerely hope management finds a solution that brings happiness to the most players possible. Management catches a lot of criticism, and I know my previous sentence and my position will drawn much scorn, but I continue to believe compromise and good decisions are possible.

[Wahnsinnig]

I dont think a permanent HC server would even be what the OP thinks he wants.

A big part of the fun on HC is that when a HC season opens everyone is at the same level. Everyone starts on a brand new character at lvl 1, and everyone wants to join groups to make it easier to complete quests without dying. You would get none of that on a permanent HC server.

On a permanent HC server people would be spread out across different levels, it would not be so easy to find groups at your level.

And most people would become really bored with it after dying and starting over a few times. I think a permanent HC server would have a very low population after a while.

[Strider1963]

I dont play the Hardcore server but to make it permanent would be great. While Hardcore is running theres MUCH less lag on the regular servers, or at least on Sarlona where I play. :-)

[noinfo]

I will tell you a secret,

ANYTHING that might reduce the established Vet players
raid group number will be opposed strongly.

They don't care what you like, or your play style.
All the care about is their fun.

so, when you understand that ... then you know why they say what they say.

They are intensely against anything that might adversely effect their daily raids.

Their choice.

I would love to see a HC server full time. It would be very interesting to view the population without any of the seasonal rewards. So many people are now just done and over HC, those of my guild who went over for the rewards have their 5k and are thinking about the reaper one but do they enjoy it? Seems like they enjoyed a small break but they are so over it they needed a week long break. Without rewards HC would be dead. By the way as a vet HC had little impact on my raids or reapers. However it would be interesting to see how something non seasonal would actually last. I would be guessing not very much at all, my true concern is cost to host yet another server with little benefit.

[ShifterThePirate]

You could just pick one server as a 'Hardcore role play' server alone or with some friends and just delete your character after death?

[Zretch]

Wow, lots of judgement about playstyles being thrown around. Hardcore isn't a "rediculous" playstyle, it's a playstyle. Some players enjoy the sense that their actions have consequences, and some players want to play for fun and want death to be no big deal.

I think a permanent hardcore server wouldn't last, however. Without a leaderboard or specific rewards, I think a fraction of the people who play HCL would play hardcore permanently, and if you do have a leaderboard, then you must have resets or long term players have far too large an advantage. The league mechanic is a good thing. Go the PoE route. More consistent leagues, a hardcore and softcore version of the leagues, and consolidate the normal servers with the knowledge that many people will only participate in the leagues and take much needed breaks between them.

[KoobTheProud]

Wow, lots of judgement about playstyles being thrown around. Hardcore isn't a "rediculous" playstyle, it's a playstyle. Some players enjoy the sense that their actions have consequences, and some players want to play for fun and want death to be no big deal.

I think a permanent hardcore server wouldn't last, however. Without a leaderboard or specific rewards, I think a fraction of the people who play HCL would play hardcore permanently, and if you do have a leaderboard, then you must have resets or long term players have far too large an advantage. The league mechanic is a good thing. Go the PoE route. More consistent leagues, a hardcore and softcore version of the leagues, and consolidate the normal servers with the knowledge that many people will only participate in the leagues and take much needed breaks between them.

The long-term advantage wouldn't be all that much of a factor. You do have to play your character periodically after all and there's always the chance they die on the next adventure, particularly at cap.

[Zretch]

The long-term advantage wouldn't be all that much of a factor. You do have to play your character periodically after all and there's always the chance they die on the next adventure, particularly at cap.

That's a pretty bad assumption to make when you're talking about a leaderboard. Hardcore players very much have a risk mitigation mindset that's probably completely foreign to most DDO players, as DDO in its current form has nearly 0 punishment for death. The fact that players are encouraged to put points into UMD so they can scroll cast raise dead tells you just how little people build specifically around not dying. When the leaderboard has a fixed duration, you are incented to push the line between maximum progression with the lowest acceptable risk and in that case, death is a possibility. When the leaderboard never resets, your incentive is to eliminate the risk and just grind. That doesn't make for a very fun competition.

[Oxarhamar]

That's a pretty bad assumption to make when you're talking about a leaderboard. Hardcore players very much have a risk mitigation mindset that's probably completely foreign to most DDO players, as DDO in its current form has nearly 0 punishment for death. The fact that players are encouraged to put points into UMD so they can scroll cast raise dead tells you just how little people build specifically around not dying. When the leaderboard has a fixed duration, you are incented to push the line between maximum progression with the lowest acceptable risk and in that case, death is a possibility. When the leaderboard never resets, your incentive is to eliminate the risk and just grind. That doesn't make for a very fun competition.

I been saying HCL is all about reducing risk

Sure there is not much penalty for death outside of the small hit to xp on regular servers but it’s fun to take the risks

[Eantarus]

The long-term advantage wouldn't be all that much of a factor. You do have to play your character periodically after all and there's always the chance they die on the next adventure, particularly at cap.

So how do you think people are going to feel when they finally hit that third life, and then die in Korthos thanks to a lag spike?

I suspect a permanent HCL would make more players rage-quit than anything else.

[KoobTheProud]

So how do you think people are going to feel when they finally hit that third life, and then die in Korthos thanks to a lag spike?

I suspect a permanent HCL would make more players rage-quit than anything else.

I think a permanent HCL would be populated by players who like HC. Obviously you do not so I'm not sure your concerns on what other players would feel like or do are valid.

[Oxarhamar]

I think a permanent HCL would be populated by players who like HC. Obviously you do not so I'm not sure your concerns on what other players would feel like or do are valid.

I think Zretch is right & it wouldn’t be so populated as the HCL seasons

[Eantarus]

I think a permanent HCL would be populated by players who like HC. Obviously you do not so I'm not sure your concerns on what other players would feel like or do are valid.

The only way they could really accomplish a full-time HC server is by permanently removing one of the existing servers.

This, it occurs to me, would not be such a bad thing. Consider: they take 1 server down, and replace it with a permanent stupid-core server. The 6 people who actually want that can go play on it. That server would then have extremely low overhead, thus improving server performance and decreasing lag for the rest of us. The other improvement would be de-fragmenting the player-base, as the population of the closed server would have to migrate to other servers.

So, the maybe 5 or 6 permadeath players can stop gripping at us for a server that supports their dumb play-style, and the rest of us get more people to play the actual game with. Its win-win. The only possible downside I can see is the permadeathers will instead start whining about how no one is never online to play with them. Not sure if that'll be worse.

[Eantarus]

I think Zretch is right & it wouldn’t be so populated as the HCL seasons

HCL seasons are populated primarily by "achievement hunters". They aren't playing because they think permadeath is a fun mechanic(spoiler: its not); they're playing because its the only way to get the achievement. People also play it because group mechanics are basically dead on the live servers. Then there's having gear actually matter, a level playing field in terms of stats, PLs, tomes, etc; the content being more challenging without all the power creep, the list goes on and on. The permadeath mechanic is an extremely distant last.

[superevbully]

HCL seasons are populated primarily by "achievement hunters". They aren't playing because they think permadeath is a fun mechanic(spoiler: its not); they're playing because its the only way to get the achievement. People also play it because group mechanics are basically dead on the live servers. Then there's having gear actually matter, a level playing field in terms of stats, PLs, tomes, etc; the content being more challenging without all the power creep, the list goes on and on. The permadeath mechanic is an extremely distant last.

ok we get it u dont care for it .......i actually agree perm server would be a bust .........but to say were not there cuz the risk of death isnt fun is plain stupid ofc its the reason ......go back to your hole and solo cuz u bring zero to the thread

[Oxarhamar]

HCL seasons are populated primarily by "achievement hunters". They aren't playing because they think permadeath is a fun mechanic(spoiler: its not); they're playing because its the only way to get the achievement. People also play it because group mechanics are basically dead on the live servers. Then there's having gear actually matter, a level playing field in terms of stats, PLs, tomes, etc; the content being more challenging without all the power creep, the list goes on and on. The permadeath mechanic is an extremely distant last.

I agree anyone who really wanted permadeath has been doing it in guilds for years

It's not really a level playing field anyway static group is going to be better 9 times out of 10

It's just an illusion of level playing field because everyone starts with nothing

They cut down on cheaters but they are still there too

[KoobTheProud]

I think Zretch is right & it wouldn’t be so populated as the HCL seasons

I totally agree on this point. HCL starts off with probably half the active population of DDO for the first month or so.

I think a permanent HC server would probably wind up with normal large server numbers. Maybe a bit better than that because it really is more entertaining in general than grinding on a 50+ life character. Among other things you get to try out a lot of builds in a short time period due to attrition and then a few sail on from there.

I believe a permanent HC server would be very productive in terms of selling tomes and such because the whales who like HC would be buying everything on every character that made it out of Korthos. I think even non-cetaceans would spend more outfitting their various characters than they do now. I haven't bought a tome of any sort for a character outside of HC in more than two years. All the regular server characters that I play are tomed out.

[fatherpirate]

Do you want the real reason multi-life Vets
are totally against any form of a HCL like server?

It is because they have spent YEARS of their lives perfecting their
completionist toon and they are terrified that if a permanent
HCL server came up, that half of their server population would move
and the toon they spent YEARS perfecting would end up being ghosted
on a dead server.

Their fear is solidly based on selfishness.

They would rather prevent other players from having
fun in order to keep from being ALONE.

The flip side of the coin is "Then why would they not also just go over
to the new server?"
Because they have already invested YEARS into their perfect toon(s)
and do not want to start over.

This all kind of make you feel sorry for them. Don't.
They need to get a real life.

[noinfo]

Do you want the real reason multi-life Vets
are totally against any form of a HCL like server?

It is because they have spent YEARS of their lives perfecting their
completionist toon and they are terrified that if a permanent
HCL server came up, that half of their server population would move
and the toon they spent YEARS perfecting would end up being ghosted
on a dead server.

Their fear is solidly based on selfishness.

They would rather prevent other players from having
fun in order to keep from being ALONE.

The flip side of the coin is "Then why would they not also just go over
to the new server?"
Because they have already invested YEARS into their perfect toon(s)
and do not want to start over.

This all kind of make you feel sorry for them. Don't.
They need to get a real life.


I am all for your server knowing it will flop.

However as many have pointed out, particularly in your specific circumstance as you claim to only solo. Why you cannot play by whatever rules you want? The only reason I see is lack of discipline to self enforce, that is sad.

Making sure that this is never the default world so that the rare new player is not subjected to this would be essential.

[Oxarhamar]

Do you want the real reason multi-life Vets
are totally against any form of a HCL like server?

It is because they have spent YEARS of their lives perfecting their
completionist toon and they are terrified that if a permanent
HCL server came up, that half of their server population would move
and the toon they spent YEARS perfecting would end up being ghosted
on a dead server.

Their fear is solidly based on selfishness.

They would rather prevent other players from having
fun in order to keep from being ALONE.

The flip side of the coin is "Then why would they not also just go over
to the new server?"
Because they have already invested YEARS into their perfect toon(s)
and do not want to start over.

This all kind of make you feel sorry for them. Don't.
They need to get a real life.

That is how you view things not a reflection of anyone else

No fear at all permanent HC server would be welcome in addition to cross server grouping

We are more likely to get the later as HCL season likely makes more $$ than a permanent server would

Remember you can play by whatever rules you would like on any of the existing servers especially if you are solo since no one is there to interfere

[Eantarus]

It is because they have spent YEARS of their lives perfecting their
completionist toon and they are terrified that if a permanent
HCL server came up, that half of their server population would move
and the toon they spent YEARS perfecting would end up being ghosted
on a dead server.



That is how you view things not a reflection of anyone else


This is absolutely correct.

I am one of those vets and I'm not afraid of a permanent hardcore server in the slightest. The new serer is the one that would be a ghost town. HCL only draws a crowd for the achievements. Take away that and it's just a server with an extra stupid rule-set.

[fatherpirate]

This really has nothing to do with what a player can and can not do personally.

Sure, a player can delete their own character, but the OP has nothing to do with that.

It is more a case of "I don't want an extra specialty server, so you can't have one."

Why should any of these folks be against something they can just ignore?
Because they think it will effect them personally in a negative way.

Attacking the idea directly would come off as selfish so they attack the idea
indirectly by stating that it is totally unnecessary because you can just simulate
that personally and stop bringing it up, thank you very much ... when will the next
raid open?

FINE

We all get it, you have the part of the game you prefer.
great.

Can you stop trying to interject your preferences into the part of the
game the rest of us like?

Last time I checked, none of the HCL types chime in on raid thread to
attempt to derail them.

The best solution will never happen.

There will never be a mega server on DDO, because if it was possible,
it would have already been done.

So, we should all try and accept a live and let live stance if possible.

Dream your dream
and let others dream theirs without interference.

[noinfo]

This really has nothing to do with what a player can and can not do personally.

Sure, a player can delete their own character, but the OP has nothing to do with that.

It is more a case of "I don't want an extra specialty server, so you can't have one."

Why should any of these folks be against something they can just ignore?
Because they think it will effect them personally in a negative way.


Actually I am pretty sure this will not affect me in anyway any more than HC did. Most people see it as a novelty nothing that would endure as part of a sustained server and many don't want resources wasted, to me let it go as an experiment to confirm my theory. Ultimately SSG won't as they see the purpose as a money making event not something that will be sustainable.




Attacking the idea directly would come off as selfish so they attack the idea
indirectly by stating that it is totally unnecessary because you can just simulate
that personally and stop bringing it up, thank you very much ... when will the next
raid open?

FINE

We all get it, you have the part of the game you prefer.
great.


A Raid is actual content. Try it you may like it. However there are already many who like to chime in about Raids.
I can simulate a playstyle, I can't simulate new content. Big difference.



Can you stop trying to interject your preferences into the part of the
game the rest of us like?

Last time I checked, none of the HCL types chime in on raid thread to
attempt to derail them.

The best solution will never happen.


But we have to endure your thoughts without the ability to reply?
How many times do you type that we see other players as content? Really? No one sees you as content. You solo and your presence makes no difference. Those people who do make a difference are those who do raid and participate in end game content and those are not the people who see HC as something other than a distraction or something to run for a reward.

I have had probably a dozen from my guild go over to HC this season for the wings. Not for the playstyle etc, they were always back for raids and other content they found interesting. HC has had 0 impact on me or my playstyle personally at all. If a raid does not fill fast we go short and enjoy the experience.




There will never be a mega server on DDO, because if it was possible,
it would have already been done.

So, we should all try and accept a live and let live stance if possible.

Dream your dream
and let others dream theirs without interference.

Everyone deserves to dream, but posting your opinion will result in others posting with differing opinions, that is never going to change.

[Oxarhamar]

Actually I am pretty sure this will not affect me in anyway any more than HC did. Most people see it as a novelty nothing that would endure as part of a sustained server and many don't want resources wasted, to me let it go as an experiment to confirm my theory. Ultimately SSG won't as they see the purpose as a money making event not something that will be sustainable.




A Raid is actual content. Try it you may like it. However there are already many who like to chime in about Raids.
I can simulate a playstyle, I can't simulate new content. Big difference.



But we have to endure your thoughts without the ability to reply?
How many times do you type that we see other players as content? Really? No one sees you as content. You solo and your presence makes no difference. Those people who do make a difference are those who do raid and participate in end game content and those are not the people who see HC as something other than a distraction or something to run for a reward.

I have had probably a dozen from my guild go over to HC this season for the wings. Not for the playstyle etc, they were always back for raids and other content they found interesting. HC has had 0 impact on me or my playstyle personally at all. If a raid does not fill fast we go short and enjoy the experience.




Everyone deserves to dream, but posting your opinion will result in others posting with differing opinions, that is never going to change.

I was going to reply but why you have summed it up well enough

+1

Been said it before but if they are going to add a permanent HC server then they should add cross server we should have cross server anyway HCL proves how well that would work

As far as the comment on not having cross server yet so we won't get it that's not atalltrue just because we don't have it doesn't mean that it can't happen

[Annex]

People who play hardcore for extended periods seem to universally enjoy the adrenaline rush and consequences. To promote long term play on a permanent hardcore server, perhaps something like the following would work:

1) Add special token drops to each level cap raid. An elite or higher completion drops one token for each surviving character.
2) Disable raid timer bypasses on the permanent hardcore server.
3) Add a vendor who will exchange 25 tokens from a specific raid for a cosmetic item. One such cosmetic item exists per raid.
4) Turn off 'reincarnation'.
5) Cap Reaper Points at 40.

This environment would create an end game raid community on the permanent hardcore server. Raid capable characters would suffer regular attrition, requiring constant replenishment. Completing a raid on elite without dying should challenge and thrill players who seek an adrenaline rush.

Obviously, many possible solutions exist to the 'reason to keep playing' problem. I offer this one only as an example.

The hardcore rebels should discuss these matters and find solutions for themselves. :)

[fatherpirate]

I see no agreement possible currently between the two schools of opinion
on this subject and the subject has been fully debated.

It is likely time to move on to other issues.

[Oxarhamar]

I see no agreement possible currently between the two schools of opinion
on this subject and the subject has been fully debated.

It is likely time to move on to other issues.

Players don’t have to agree & are free to continue with discussions as they see fit.

[Shaamis]

Maybe a third option: Any server can have Hardcore characters, it's only an option on Startup, and You cannot go into areas/quests with non-hardcore, and maybe further guild/party restrictions.

Also, you can become non-hardcore at any time, but it is irreversible.

Thoughts?

[Annex]

Maybe a third option: Any server can have Hardcore characters, it's only an option on Startup, and You cannot go into areas/quests with non-hardcore, and maybe further guild/party restrictions.

Also, you can become non-hardcore at any time, but it is irreversible.

Thoughts?

The main reason some hardcore players want a permanent server is for the presumed concentration of players resulting in rapid group formation. If the hardcore players are distributed over 8 servers, so are their groups, rapid group formation ceases to happen, and the whole thing falls apart. Also, the hardcore players want Standing Stone Games to do the organization part because building, maintaining, and recruiting for a hardcore guild is a huge amount of work.

It is the exact same problem group players on normal servers have. It is the reason players on normal servers do not want hardcore people abandoning ship. Fewer players means fewer groups means slower group formation means inability to find groups means dead game from the group player perspective.

DDO has the additional problem of spreading group seeking players across many levels and many peer groups. The obvious solution is to concentrate players by merging servers. That leads to push back from people who do not want the resulting lag.

If hardcore players want a server, they need to show up in large numbers and make their case to the people at Standing Stone Games. If the same three or four people ask for a server every couple months, it will never happen.

[Eantarus]

Maybe a third option: Any server can have Hardcore characters, it's only an option on Startup, and You cannot go into areas/quests with non-hardcore, and maybe further guild/party restrictions.

Also, you can become non-hardcore at any time, but it is irreversible.

Thoughts?

How is that ANY different from self-imposed permadeath? That's exactly how those people play.

[Oxarhamar]

The main reason some hardcore players want a permanent server is for the presumed concentration of players resulting in rapid group formation. If the hardcore players are distributed over 8 servers, so are their groups, rapid group formation ceases to happen, and the whole thing falls apart. Also, the hardcore players want Standing Stone Games to do the organization part because building, maintaining, and recruiting for a hardcore guild is a huge amount of work.

It is the exact same problem group players on normal servers have. It is the reason players on normal servers do not want hardcore people abandoning ship. Fewer players means fewer groups means slower group formation means inability to find groups means dead game from the group player perspective.

DDO has the additional problem of spreading group seeking players across many levels and many peer groups. The obvious solution is to concentrate players by merging servers. That leads to push back from people who do not want the resulting lag.

If hardcore players want a server, they need to show up in large numbers and make their case to the people at Standing Stone Games. If the same three or four people ask for a server every couple months, it will never happen.

while I agree in theory there are perminate HC advocates in this thread that are soloists so that doesn't align for them

I will never understand why a soloist cant play by their own rules on anyserver

I've done an entire life only in explorer from 1-30 save a couple quests like into the mist which unlocked slayer area just to see how that was & I enjoy slayers.

I didn't need any special restrictions or a slayer server and I even ran in groups just listing slayer lfms some areas more popular than others

[Eantarus]

I've done an entire life only in explorer from 1-30 save a couple quests like into the mist which unlocked slayer area just to see how that was & I enjoy slayers.


Could you elaborate on this some? I also enjoy slayers and being ale to do 1-30 entirely on slayer zones sounds pretty nice.

[Oxarhamar]

Could you elaborate on this some? I also enjoy slayers and being ale to do 1-30 entirely on slayer zones sounds pretty nice.

Not much more to it but heroic slaying is slower because it’s not popular like epic

[Eantarus]

Not much more to it but heroic slaying is slower because it’s not popular like epic

Yeah I remember trying that sometimes in my early days. I know there are a few low/mid slayer areas that ward a total of 1 million XP, pretty nice chunk of a life right there.

[Annex]

while I agree in theory there are perminate HC advocates in this thread that are soloists so that doesn't align for them

I will never understand why a soloist cant play by their own rules on anyserver

Oh! I thought this entire thread was about group play! Yeah. If someone wants to hardcore solo, just do it! Sheesh.

[Eantarus]

Oh! I thought this entire thread was about group play! Yeah. If someone wants to hardcore solo, just do it! Sheesh.

Or hardcore with a static group. A tiny minority of the tiny minority of permadeath players have been whining since the start for dedicated servers. It doesn't seem like that will ever stop. Imagine: ten years from now, DDO has 2 servers and a single full-time dev taking care of bug fixes. The player population is maybe 3,000 and the game is in maintenance mode. The 3 remaining permadeath players will STILL beg for a dedicated permadeath server.

[spifflove]

Maybe a third option: Any server can have Hardcore characters, it's only an option on Startup, and You cannot go into areas/quests with non-hardcore, and maybe further guild/party restrictions.

Also, you can become non-hardcore at any time, but it is irreversible.

Thoughts?

Thread winner! This is brilliant! Character would get a death head next to name and this would enforce guild rules and put the guild police out of business. It would also free players to seek greater risks away from risk mitigation guilds as they can group with normal reaper pugs.

HCL is unaffected.

If a toon dies, they can become a normal character for 50 ddo points per level.

[fatherpirate]

That same suggestion has been put out before.
The same folks shooting down the current suggestion also hate this one.

Can I simplify?

Anything related to HCL is
unacceptable by a small group
of elite Vet players.

They want HCL to end and never return.

so, debating them is pointless.

[noinfo]

That same suggestion has been put out before.
The same folks shooting down the current suggestion also hate this one.

Can I simplify?

Anything related to HCL is
unacceptable by a small group
of elite Vet players.

They want HCL to end and never return.

so, debating them is pointless.

You keep saying elite Vet players but I do not think that means what you think it means-

Those groups of players you are talking about are not impacted by HC-
They may go to HC and be done quickly with rewards ready to go on the real servers again.
They may continue on live servers as if HC is not there due to running with guild and short manning whatever if needed, though even with HC there did not seem to be any issues with the content I run.
Raid this can take a little longer to fill but you short man even without LFM you may need to LH instead of reaper but that's not really an issue.

Those who are really impacted by HC are those who are NOT vets and are not capable of the above. Those who are not interested in HC but want to simply play the regular game. The ones who need to pug to progress/level or raid.

[Oxarhamar]

That same suggestion has been put out before.
The same folks shooting down the current suggestion also hate this one.

Can I simplify?

Anything related to HCL is
unacceptable by a small group
of elite Vet players.

They want HCL to end and never return.

so, debating them is pointless.

You can already play by those rules without changing the game especially if you solo

You’ve already stated that it’s not worth debating twice but still you are anyway

YW

[Shaamis]

The main reason some hardcore players want a permanent server is for the presumed concentration of players resulting in rapid group formation. If the hardcore players are distributed over 8 servers, so are their groups, rapid group formation ceases to happen, and the whole thing falls apart. Also, the hardcore players want Standing Stone Games to do the organization part because building, maintaining, and recruiting for a hardcore guild is a huge amount of work.

It is the exact same problem group players on normal servers have. It is the reason players on normal servers do not want hardcore people abandoning ship. Fewer players means fewer groups means slower group formation means inability to find groups means dead game from the group player perspective.

DDO has the additional problem of spreading group seeking players across many levels and many peer groups. The obvious solution is to concentrate players by merging servers. That leads to push back from people who do not want the resulting lag.

If hardcore players want a server, they need to show up in large numbers and make their case to the people at Standing Stone Games. If the same three or four people ask for a server every couple months, it will never happen.

I can totally see that angle, and didnt see it that way, but it is viable as well. I guess my angle was as a player who is casual nowadays, when I used to play much more and at the highest levels of content on a daily basis.

Some players are looking for a way to earn "cooler" content without having to sacrifice career/family/house to play enough in the short HCL timeframe, and are looking for options.

Face it, the content is not hard, just has to be done quickly in a short timespan in order to get it.

But, thats what I love about this fanbase, broad age range, experience range, broad source of media that got us here, and we are keeping this game fresh.

/Cheers

[Shaamis]

The main reason some hardcore players want a permanent server is for the presumed concentration of players resulting in rapid group formation. If the hardcore players are distributed over 8 servers, so are their groups, rapid group formation ceases to happen, and the whole thing falls apart. Also, the hardcore players want Standing Stone Games to do the organization part because building, maintaining, and recruiting for a hardcore guild is a huge amount of work.

It is the exact same problem group players on normal servers have. It is the reason players on normal servers do not want hardcore people abandoning ship. Fewer players means fewer groups means slower group formation means inability to find groups means dead game from the group player perspective.

DDO has the additional problem of spreading group seeking players across many levels and many peer groups. The obvious solution is to concentrate players by merging servers. That leads to push back from people who do not want the resulting lag.

If hardcore players want a server, they need to show up in large numbers and make their case to the people at Standing Stone Games. If the same three or four people ask for a server every couple months, it will never happen.


Thread winner! This is brilliant! Character would get a death head next to name and this would enforce guild rules and put the guild police out of business. It would also free players to seek greater risks away from risk mitigation guilds as they can group with normal reaper pugs.

HCL is unaffected.

If a toon dies, they can become a normal character for 50 ddo points per level.

These threads are looked at and they do glean information from them. I remember stuff we used to HARP about, that never saw the light of day until 5-10 years later.....but they do watch, read, and consider.

My suggestion is simply a way that people who choose to try hardcore, and play casually, can possibly get more time to do so. Our broad fanbase has some old grognards like myself who play not as much as I used to, but do spend $$ on my subscription, and extra $$ for cool, hats, etc.

I also believe that rewards easy to get to, will kill this game. So reward should fit the time/effort spent.

(Also I would think it would be pretty cool if HC characters with little skulls off their shoulders (like the ribbons back in the day) would be cool running around on the regular servers).

[cdbd3rd]

....
But, thats what I love about this fanbase, broad age range, experience range, broad source of media that got us here, and we are keeping this game fresh.

/Cheers


https://c.tenor.com/BaqzIJib4mgAAAAM/double-take.gif


Oy! I be knowin' yer face. Ya knowin' how many years been since had a right proper drinkin' mate, eh?

Good ta see yer name floatin around again! https://i.imgur.com/X5meW1f.gif

[Hanul]

I would play in a permanent hardcore server in a regular way if two conditions were met:

- The level restriction stayed at +2 or even less.
* Maybe if there are hounds or other critters like hounds then do not make it less than +2 (because it may be just too difficult, maybe)

- If when we die we have the option to reincarnate instead of delete the character or to transfer it. When reincarnating we can mantain our tomes and reincarnations... that means that if I reach level 20 and I reincarnate I can maintain that life I played in the next charactater I do if I die.... instead of losing it forever. Playing for a long time and losing it all for a very small mistake is fun... for a few weeks. Eventually the fun goes away. That's why allowing you to reincarnate after death is a much better option.
* Alternatively I would not mind if they allowed us to mantain a few items like for example if they allowed us to protect a few items from death. Although because we can make multiple characters and can maintain back up items the problem is not so big except in some cases like "bottle of smoke".

Having said so, if this conditions met I would have a lot of fun. I would see myself playing for a while in a permanent hardcore server if they did not allow us to reincarnate and mantain reincarnations through death... but in the end there would not be much difference with the temporal harcore server, that's why allowing reincarnations not to be lost would be a way to make a difference in this hardcore server and to give an incentive for the players to go on playing.


Additionally I gonna say that currently in the normal servers I am not playing and don't see me playing in them because... everytime i enter I see so few groups... while in harcore I can do any quest I want... while in normal servers I don't think is possible unless I solo which means I will be doing that quest with no challenge at all (example level 20 doing level 5 quests... after all if I can not group to do quests in level range only way possible is to do it while been higher level)

[PedXing20]

That same suggestion has been put out before.
The same folks shooting down the current suggestion also hate this one.

Can I simplify?

Anything related to HCL is
unacceptable by a small group
of elite Vet players.

They want HCL to end and never return.

so, debating them is pointless.
I think this reply from another thread fits here nicely


That same suggestion has been put out before.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WHO CARES <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

The same folks shooting down the current suggestion also hate this one.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WHO CARES <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

WHO CARES !

I don't !

BECAUSE -------------------------------> Anything related to HCL is
unacceptable by a small group
of elite Vet players.

They want HCL to end and never return.

so, debating them is pointless.

[TrinityTurtle]

This

There are those who enjoy the gameplay and then there are those who want the bragging right cosmetic

I don’t think the server would be nearly as populated without the seasons rewards or leaderboards

What hardcore does do is show how well grouping works with a concentrated population

Except, it doesn't show that exactly. IF you merged all the servers tomorrow, you'd still have a large group of people complaining because there would be more people willing to post groups yes, but a crapton more that are waiting for someone else to do it competing for those few groups still. A lot of them aren't social at all, and they clearly don't want to need to be grouped up for survival, but are willing to do it for their goals for an event. And nothing wrong with that, it's not a criticism. The one thing that would truly fix grouping is an actual desire to group combined with a willingness to open up the lfm board and post one. I get inquiries what I'm doing and if I"ll be posting anything on tells nearly every day, because I do often post them as I'm a fairly social turtle. And when I say nope, I'm doing xyz or whatever today or already grouped up and suggest they post something, the response is almost like clockwork "oh, I can't do that" or "I'm not comfortable having the star" like the star is some mystic thing. 1-12 people go into a quest/raid. And all of them are equally responsible for the success of that quest/raid, not just the star. Just communicate with each other as you go and it will be fine. We need to culturally stop making the ideology of the starholder being responsible so the more shy of the playerbase can see the lfm's as an invitation to play together and post and increase grouping opportunity, instead of being afraid/uncomfortable and just coming to the forums to complain there is no grouping. And yes, this is all anecdotal, but it is my ddo experience that drives my opinions on it.

What drives the grouping on hardcore isn't the population numbers, it's the need of a group to increase the survival chances for most people incentivizing people to post groups. Just like in the early days of the new server. We still see soloists who make it and prefer to not have others even there though. People still don't want to post, but they hit the point where they have to if they want to make their goal. But you still see more people asking if anyone will post a quest x, y, or z in the build guild chats instead of just posting the dang thing even on hardcore. My philosophy was just go into the quests on public, and I make it to 5k favor and level 20 on Calicojack just fine, for two reasons. One, I'm active during the American time zones so lots of people literally sitting there waiting for someone to put up a quest they need, two I'm fine being the one to post and go or just do it myself with hirelings if no one in my level range needs that one, but the invitation is there. A lot of the people in these groups are silent, clearly uninterested in being in a group as they go off and do their own thing, and are only there to run back to if they pull a hound. That's fine too, but it's a clear indication to me that they're not going to magically start grouping once they get on live just because there are more people around them suddenly.

As to the original idea, while I do enjoy the hardcore events for the nostalgia to when I started playing (when ddo went free, and Orien was opened and no one had anything and a huge amount of people who hadn't played the game to death and grouping was the norm for a long while there) and the novelty of the consequences and twists every season, I can't say it is something I would play on as a regular normal server. I love the hardcore events, but I'm definitely part of the population that doesn't want to do it full time and wouldn't show up. None of the people I regularly play with even like it much, so i don't see them going either. I enjoy the progression of my toon. I loved the ride to triple class and iconic completionists. Now I'm working on the triple racial completionist . When Waterssong is done, I'm going to take up either Calicojack (got really attached to the toon on hc) or Mollymauk to enjoy the ride again. Constantly having to be super careful all the time and creating new toons and grinding the low level quests more than tr requires of me has ZERO appeal to me.

Just some bored turtle thoughts while waiting for my laundry to be done. (Talk about long term grinds, you can never conquer this one).

[Oxarhamar]

Except, it doesn't show that exactly. IF you merged all the servers tomorrow, you'd still have a large group of people complaining because there would be more people willing to post groups yes, but a crapton more that are waiting for someone else to do it competing for those few groups still. A lot of them aren't social at all, and they clearly don't want to need to be grouped up for survival, but are willing to do it for their goals for an event. And nothing wrong with that, it's not a criticism. The one thing that would truly fix grouping is an actual desire to group combined with a willingness to open up the lfm board and post one. I get inquiries what I'm doing and if I"ll be posting anything on tells nearly every day, because I do often post them as I'm a fairly social turtle. And when I say nope, I'm doing xyz or whatever today or already grouped up and suggest they post something, the response is almost like clockwork "oh, I can't do that" or "I'm not comfortable having the star" like the star is some mystic thing. 1-12 people go into a quest/raid. And all of them are equally responsible for the success of that quest/raid, not just the star. Just communicate with each other as you go and it will be fine. We need to culturally stop making the ideology of the starholder being responsible so the more shy of the playerbase can see the lfm's as an invitation to play together and post and increase grouping opportunity, instead of being afraid/uncomfortable and just coming to the forums to complain there is no grouping. And yes, this is all anecdotal, but it is my ddo experience that drives my opinions on it.

What drives the grouping on hardcore isn't the population numbers, it's the need of a group to increase the survival chances for most people incentivizing people to post groups. Just like in the early days of the new server. We still see soloists who make it and prefer to not have others even there though. People still don't want to post, but they hit the point where they have to if they want to make their goal. But you still see more people asking if anyone will post a quest x, y, or z in the build guild chats instead of just posting the dang thing even on hardcore. My philosophy was just go into the quests on public, and I make it to 5k favor and level 20 on Calicojack just fine, for two reasons. One, I'm active during the American time zones so lots of people literally sitting there waiting for someone to put up a quest they need, two I'm fine being the one to post and go or just do it myself with hirelings if no one in my level range needs that one, but the invitation is there. A lot of the people in these groups are silent, clearly uninterested in being in a group as they go off and do their own thing, and are only there to run back to if they pull a hound. That's fine too, but it's a clear indication to me that they're not going to magically start grouping once they get on live just because there are more people around them suddenly.

As to the original idea, while I do enjoy the hardcore events for the nostalgia to when I started playing (when ddo went free, and Orien was opened and no one had anything and a huge amount of people who hadn't played the game to death and grouping was the norm for a long while there) and the novelty of the consequences and twists every season, I can't say it is something I would play on as a regular normal server. I love the hardcore events, but I'm definitely part of the population that doesn't want to do it full time and wouldn't show up. None of the people I regularly play with even like it much, so i don't see them going either. I enjoy the progression of my toon. I loved the ride to triple class and iconic completionists. Now I'm working on the triple racial completionist . When Waterssong is done, I'm going to take up either Calicojack (got really attached to the toon on hc) or Mollymauk to enjoy the ride again. Constantly having to be super careful all the time and creating new toons and grinding the low level quests more than tr requires of me has ZERO appeal to me.

Just some bored turtle thoughts while waiting for my laundry to be done. (Talk about long term grinds, you can never conquer this one).

I agree on all that

I am a social player as well I always put up an lfm for whatever it is I am doing and often fill with the same players who have joined before hey even get random tells and invites tyo raids & R10s from players I've run with. The best way to get groups going outside of forming a static group is to post up an lfm and advert the group in whatever channels be it guild or server channels.

I agree doing the HCL careful play once was fun but, I don't enjoy it repeatedly it's not facing challenge but, playing safe.