U56 Preview 3: TOEE Revamp Item Feedback

[Steelstar]

Hey, everyone! With the revamped Temple of Elemental Evil content appearing in this preview, you should be able to find the new items for the pack inside that content!

We talked through a lot of feedback from the last Preview, did some bugfixes and adjustments. Here's the short version of what has changed in Preview 3:


The new Augments and some new Wands are now available in the Dojo with the other items!
The new TOEE items should now be dropping in their intended locations.
The new Heroic armors now have Blurry (was Dusk in Preview 2)
The new Legendary armors now have their intended Lesser Displacement (was Dusk in Preview 2)
The "Pendant of Subtle Life" item from Preview 1 is, in fact, Bracers, so it has been renamed to "Bracelets of Subtle Life"
The Bracelets of Subtle Life now also have Insightful Mystic Diversion in addition to their other effects.
The Pendant of Subtle Pain now has Mystic Diversion in addition to its other effects.
The "Stormsniper's Lenses" from Preview 2 have been renamed "Blazing Sniper's Sights" to better reflect their place in the Fire-themed item set from this pack.
The Insightful Deadly on the Blazing Sniper's Sights and Eternal Flameguard's Lenses has been replaced with Quality Deadly.
The False Life effect on the Pendant of Subtle Pain has been replaced by Quality Accuracy.
Instances of Lifesealed in this update's loot have been replaced with Deathblock.
The new Docents should now display the correct colors.
Goggles from this pack should now glow in the correct colors.
The Eyes of the Lady of Rot and Decay no longer have the Temple's Monolith set, which they were not intended to have.
The Frost and Flame ring is now part of both the Temple's Inferno and the Temple's Tide sets.
The Earth and the Sky ring is now part of both the Temple's Monolith and the Temple's Tempest sets.

KNOWN ISSUE: Helmets from this pack may not yet be displaying the correct appearance.


We talked through a number of other feedback points that came up, including Spell Crit augments and re-adding the crafting/weapon system, but do not have plans to move forward with either of those in this Update, sorry.

We'd love to hear your thoughts on these changes and the items as a whole!

----

If you weren't here for Preview 2, or just want a refresher, here's the high level overview of loot in this Update!

Existing TOEE Items You Have
To start off, none of the existing Temple of Elemental Evil loot is changing at all. Everything you have, from the static drops to the crafted items, is staying exactly as it is, including its Minimum Level (7/26, or whatever else it may have had).

New Items!
Items that drop from the revamped Temple of Elemental Evil will now be ML8 in Heroic and ML31 in Legendary, reflecting the raised CR of this content. The Temple has also been split into a larger number of overall quests, and those quests need End Chest loot! Each of the new dungeons has items that drop in that dungeon's End Chest. These items are on the Loot Guy in the Test Dojo in this Preview! They're all new, with the exception (sort of) of the Armors, Docents, and Robes; these are new items with new names, but have the appearance and effects of the old TOEE's fully-upgraded armors. As the crafting system isn't returning (see below), we created static versions of these armors that don't require upgrading. Instead of one overall TOEE Set Bonus, there are now four - one for each of the four elements represented in the Temple.

Random Encounter Chests!
Random Encounter chests in the Temple no longer drop named equippables, but that doesn't mean they're not worth searching for! There are some new Augments to be found in the new Temple, including Rubies of (Element) Blast (an effect formerly found on the craftable weapons) and Rubies of Implement's (Element), which grants both an Equipment bonus to that element's Spell Power AND the standard Implement Bonus found on Spellcasting Implements. There are both Heroic and Legendary versions of all of these Augments! In addition, there are a few fun wands we've included this go around. They're likely not top-tier endgame items, but may have some interesting uses. Let us know what you think about those! These are all on the Loot Guy in this Preview!

Optional Encounters!
There are a few tougher optionals in the new Temple, and that's where you will be able to locate the old named items you used to be able to find in the Temple's Random Encounter chests (Sapphire Sting, etc). These items are unchanged, still retaining their current stats and Minimum Level. We'd discussed upgrading these to the new power level and minimum level, but for balance and overall gameplay reasons we have decided to leave them alone. They are important items to a lot of builds, though, so we wanted to make sure they remained available to find, hence why they will be dropping in chests after defeating these optional encounters.

That's about it for new things! We did want to address one more point before we wrap up though:

What happened to the old crafting system?
We took a hard look at the existing TOEE crafting system and ultimately decided to leave it behind. Existing ingredients will continue to exist, but won't drop anymore. Existing bases and crafted weapons and armor will continue to exist, but won't drop anymore. The crafting station will still exist somewhere, so if you have leftover ingredients you can use them to finish up anything you might be working on. As we said above, we made static named versions of all of the fully-upgraded armors that you can find in end chests, but we won't be adding new Weapons to this pack.

The old crafting system had literally more than 500 distinct craftable bases. Obtaining the exact one you wanted was extremely daunting in Epics, and nearly impossible in Heroics. We experimented with a few methods of obtaining the bases in a different way, but dealing with that many base types was either performance-intensive or a bad gameplay experience. The existing crafting system was needlessly grindy in Epics and almost impossible to finish in one life in Heroics. And ultimately, there are already good weapons available in other content at both of these levels. The TOEE ones aren't holding up a critical niche, all of the weapon art can be found on other weapons in the game, and we've added some of the new Augments to help bring some of that flavor to your existing weapons.

We're really excited for you to check out the revamped Temple of Elemental Evil, and we hope you check out the items up for preview on Lamannia! Let us know what you think!

[HailBlazR]

Since you guys haven't responded to my comment on the other thread (https://forums.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/533712-U56-Preview-2-TOEE-Revamp-Item-Feedback/page2), I'll repost it here.

With regards to the weapons:


This is a particularly bad change.

Sure, other good items exist around ML 7, but for most item types, NOTHING compares to the 15d6 AoE damage on Vorpals. ToEE ML 7 melee weapons are the cream of the crop, and it's not even close. Shortswords have Blade of the Clouds which is also disgustingly OP for its level, but I can't think of a single other weapon type which has a better ML 7 weapon than ToEE. Some weapon types, like Daggers and Longswords, have low ML weapons with expanded crit ranges (e.g. Nightforge Avenger Blade, Theurgic Stave, Nightforge Stiletto), but even in these cases, ToEE outshines them for most of heroics, due to how AoE-oriented DDO is. ML 7 ToEE weapons handily out-dps most Greensteel weapons, even in level 18-19 heroic content. That's how good AoE is.

I don't know if you guys even read feedback here, much less act on it, but I'd seriously suggest not throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Yes, the old system is extremely grindy and luck-reliant, but why nix it entirely? How about something like Sands' Antique Bronze Tokens, where you collect ingredients and then can exchange them for an upgraded ToEE Weapon of your choice? Or Saltmarsh/Feywild/Ravenloft/Sharn with Flamesalt + Ferrocrystal + Barovians + Syranian weaponry? Sure, 4 elements means it's more tedious to code, but all the framework is already kind of existent anyway.

Another thing to consider is that the overpowered ML 7 weapons will still continue to exist in the game. Thus, players such as myself, who farmed out the old weapons and have the ML 7 weapons with their ridiculous AoEs, are at a distinct advantage over the new players, who will never have access to these weapons. This is a weird example of "reverse power creep" where newer players/Johnny-Come-Latelies are being disadvantaged over veterans.

In other words, Steelstar, you're wrong: these weapons ARE fulfilling "a critical niche." Additionally, what does it matter if "other good items exist?" I always thought that weapon diversity + build options were a good thing.

Another thing I should've mentioned: I understand that you have 500+ base weapons, but one thing you need to consider is that many of them never needed to exist. Currently, EVERY melee weapon type has a caster equivalent.

Clubs, Daggers, Sickles, Light Maces, Heavy Maces, Morningstars, Handaxes, Battleaxes, Greataxes, Kukris, Longswords, Greatswords, Scimitars, Falchions, Mauls, Shortswords, Rapiers, Heavy Picks, Light Picks, Light Hammers, Warhammers, Greatclubs, Bastard Swords, Dwarven Axes, Kamas, Khopeshes, Handwraps - that's 27 weapon types which don't really need caster equivalents. 27 weapon types x 4 = 108 total blank weapons that you should not have included in the first place. It's not like the caster weapons are even that great anyway, but even if we must have caster weapons in ToEE, I don't see why "Scepter + Quarterstaff" of 4 elements wasn't already enough.

[Steelstar]

Since you guys haven't responded to my comment on the other thread (https://forums.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/533712-U56-Preview-2-TOEE-Revamp-Item-Feedback/page2), I'll repost it here.

With regards to the weapons:



In other words, Steelstar, you're wrong: these weapons ARE fulfilling "a critical niche." Additionally, what does it matter if "other good items exist?" I always thought that weapon diversity + build options were a good thing.

Another thing I should've mentioned: I understand that you have 500+ base weapons, but one thing you need to consider is that many of them never needed to exist. Currently, EVERY melee weapon type has a caster equivalent.

Clubs, Daggers, Sickles, Light Maces, Heavy Maces, Morningstars, Handaxes, Battleaxes, Greataxes, Kukris, Longswords, Greatswords, Scimitars, Falchions, Mauls, Shortswords, Rapiers, Heavy Picks, Light Picks, Light Hammers, Warhammers, Greatclubs, Bastard Swords, Dwarven Axes, Kamas, Khopeshes, Handwraps - that's 27 weapon types which don't really need caster equivalents. 27 weapon types x 4 = 108 total blank weapons that you should not have included in the first place. It's not like the caster weapons are even that great anyway, but even if we must have caster weapons in ToEE, I don't see why "Scepter + Quarterstaff" of 4 elements wasn't already enough.

We did see this response, and discuss it internally; however, we won't be moving forward with adapting the weapons here, sorry.

[Mindos]

ML 7 ToEE weapons handily out-dps most Greensteel weapons, even in level 18-19 heroic content. That's how good AoE is.


https://ddowiki.com/page/ToEE_Crafting#Recipes


15D6 1/20th of the time. 15 to 90 damage on vorpal. Average 52.5 With a 39 save for half damage. 26.25-52.5 average damage on vorpal. 1.3125 to 2.625 more average damage per swing(ish).(times number of mobs in an AOE) Maybe we should be talking about how poor the herioc Greensteel weapons DPS is? And why are you comparing to herioc Greensteel at level 18-19 in the first place?

Wouldn't a minimum level 10 Ravenloft weapon out DPS this? Surely a cannith crafted ML 18 weapon with augment slots for procs would? At what point does the AOE damage not matter? At what point does a higher DPS weapon cycling through targets one by one kill them all faster? Isn't a scaling augment like https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Meteoric_Star_Ruby approximate this "uniqueness" anyway?

[HailBlazR]

Very few things will consistently make the 39 reflex DC in heroics. Monster saves are garbage for the most part.

What you are not factoring in is that the ToEE AoEs scale much better than most single target effects. It's 2.625 multiplied by the amount of monsters in a group. Thus, you'd only need 4 monsters in a group for your ML 7 ToEE weapon to be outdpsing Lightning Strike - and most mobs are far bigger than that in DDO, especially given SSG's obsession in the past few years with making EVERY encounter a stupidly large mob. Plus, if you have strikethrough or are cleaving, then it's that many more chances to proc the AoE, thereby multiplying your damage even further. It's not uncommon for a TWF melee, or anyone cleaving, to proc it 2/3 times in an encounter, and insta-gib everything there, even as late as Gianthold/Necro 4.

Yes, the math is difficult to parse out exactly, but you'd have to use them yourself to truly get a feel for how gamebreaking they are. I was skeptical at first, but years ago when I started using my first ToEE weapon, it was staggering to me how ridiculous they are. No other melee weapons (barring the Blade of Clouds, which ALSO has AoE) are as useful for the entire heroic game as the ToEE melee weapons are. Or at least, up until a very high level in heroics... at which point the ML 7 will have more than done its duty. My point is: these are really flippin' good weapons and Steelstar is flat-out wrong when he claims "these don't fulfill a critical niche." It's an arbitrary and unneeded change.

Yes, Greensteel sucks, but we can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can talk about how OP the ML 7 ToEE weapons are, AND talk about how horrible power creep has left GS for years now. The two discussions are not mutually exclusive, and they both need to be had.

Yes, Meteoric Star Rubies and other Ruby Eyes exist, but what you're ignoring is that ToEE weapons have augment slots for those, too. Plus, Ruby Eyes/Meteoric only have a 2% chance to proc: that's less than half the chance of what ToEE AoEs are.

At any rate, I don't understand the decision to just get rid of the items from loot tables entirely. All this does is 1) give an unfair disadvantage to newer players and 2) stultify weapon diversity. So whatever, do what you want, I guess - there's a reason I haven't spent a cent on this game in years. I was kind of excited about this update due to completionist being autogranted, but in light of the ToEE loot nerf + the nonsensical nerf to sonic blast, I've gone back to my default reaction of "meh" as I do with most updates.

[VinoeWhines]

Is the Revamp on some Epic Destinies(for instance Shadow Dancer) going to happen within this year?

1. Consolidating Stealthy and Assassinate for one would be on the list(it use to be tied together and no reason to separate to waste Epic Destiny pts.)
2. Tumble through enemies was working before prior to change.
3. Wand and Scroll mastery does nothing in Epics/Legendary or Reaper and would be better off as:
Sleight of Hand: Traps and Vial Mastery: You can make Noisemaker Traps or Noisemaker Vials(on exploding they stick to
door/wall and make ticking sound), with the ability to place or throw in stealth.(Alchamist glue bomb coding in place, minus the damage.)

(Tier 1): If you have the Trapmaking Feat, you can now add your Sneak Attack Dice and Damage to Traps and Vials.
(Tier 2): You can use the higher of Melee or Range Power to Traps and Vials you Throw.
(Tier 3):You can inscribe scrolls as Traps and Alchemical Recipes as Vials.(Inscribe scroll spells already coded = redirect/add list to Traps. Vial recipes' already coded too.)

Meld Into Darkness got nerfed(could of been made as a separate Tier IV/V(25%/50%) builder so couldn't easily be "twisted" ) and other Trees have the 25% uncapped dodge ability? [AND] forced to be part of an Epic Strike Frankenstein stitch-up attack - it's suppose to be defensive/escape.

Shadow Manipulation(Dominate) got removed and sent to Shiradi Champion in Beguile Charm? Nice for Shiradi, why not "nice" for Shadow Dancer?

Executioner Strike/Shot got removed and not replaced with a comparable? Assassinate should be Rogue Prestige?(was argument) OK, then put that in just like the foolish Weird spell only for ability to cast, does that make more choices?
Executioner Shot/Strike/Cast (35% chance) could of been a choice as an Epic Strike builder in Tier IV.

Consume(Implosion) was a great utility, ability to help out in escaping when you got detected from stealth or got pulled out of stealth.
In fact that could of been the alternate choice for "Weird" as a selector and given the same cooldown.

I'm not arguing adding a Shadowy Caster ability to Tree, in fact I was very much looking forward to "MORE" options for my character, but the opposite happened....it took very useful abilities that no one complained about(except Meld, which could of easily been put in Tier IV/V builder buff) and shoved a caster abilities in there and locked out a nice ability in "Weird" away from the original class it was built for to just watch it be used and not be able to pick it along with all the other abilities it lost. Makes no sense.

No Tree, again, no Tree got Tree-jacked away with soo much abilities.

[merridyan]

Is the Revamp on some Epic Destinies(for instance Shadow Dancer) going to happen within this year?

This was already done less than a year ago....
Probably belongs on the main forums and not the ToEE thread.

[archerforever]

Very few things will consistently make the 39 reflex DC in heroics. Monster saves are garbage for the most part.

What you are not factoring in is that the ToEE AoEs scale much better than most single target effects. It's 2.625 multiplied by the amount of monsters in a group. Thus, you'd only need 4 monsters in a group for your ML 7 ToEE weapon to be outdpsing Lightning Strike - and most mobs are far bigger than that in DDO, especially given SSG's obsession in the past few years with making EVERY encounter a stupidly large mob. Plus, if you have strikethrough or are cleaving, then it's that many more chances to proc the AoE, thereby multiplying your damage even further. It's not uncommon for a TWF melee, or anyone cleaving, to proc it 2/3 times in an encounter, and insta-gib everything there, even as late as Gianthold/Necro 4.

Yes, the math is difficult to parse out exactly, but you'd have to use them yourself to truly get a feel for how gamebreaking they are. I was skeptical at first, but years ago when I started using my first ToEE weapon, it was staggering to me how ridiculous they are. No other melee weapons (barring the Blade of Clouds, which ALSO has AoE) are as useful for the entire heroic game as the ToEE melee weapons are. Or at least, up until a very high level in heroics... at which point the ML 7 will have more than done its duty. My point is: these are really flippin' good weapons and Steelstar is flat-out wrong when he claims "these don't fulfill a critical niche." It's an arbitrary and unneeded change.

Yes, Greensteel sucks, but we can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can talk about how OP the ML 7 ToEE weapons are, AND talk about how horrible power creep has left GS for years now. The two discussions are not mutually exclusive, and they both need to be had.

Yes, Meteoric Star Rubies and other Ruby Eyes exist, but what you're ignoring is that ToEE weapons have augment slots for those, too. Plus, Ruby Eyes/Meteoric only have a 2% chance to proc: that's less than half the chance of what ToEE AoEs are.

At any rate, I don't understand the decision to just get rid of the items from loot tables entirely. All this does is 1) give an unfair disadvantage to newer players and 2) stultify weapon diversity. So whatever, do what you want, I guess - there's a reason I haven't spent a cent on this game in years. I was kind of excited about this update due to completionist being autogranted, but in light of the ToEE loot nerf + the nonsensical nerf to sonic blast, I've gone back to my default reaction of "meh" as I do with most updates.

I like ideas in your post.
I agree, I don t understand why they are removing the TOEE crafting when they just needed to UPGRADE it.
Just make ranged weapons as good as melee weapons : remove seeker and add AOE procs !
Add some nice effects and GG.

I also love the idea someone had to be able to uprage TOEE NAMED weapons with Schism schards system.
Could be nice to extend the idea to all named stuff in TOEE to unlock super strong sets effects based on elementals.

[SWCarter]

I realize the ship has probably already sailed as very little has changed on this loot from last preview, but I feel compelled to once again say that most of these items will go unused, and that's a shame. There are a staggering number of items from the past few years that are more desirable, with better set bonuses and lower level requirements.

[Annex]

Having just spent another hour checking the new Temple armor and items against my Level 8 and Level 32 melee/ranged equipment sets, I cannot make any of these pieces work. I am sorry. The pieces will definitely help less time invested players who lack Expansions.

.....

Things get much more interesting for spell casters but I do not have any spell caster equipment sets worked up.

.....

The change from Lifesealed to Deathblock was a serious downgrade for someone like me who plays Good characters. Negative energy spells hit Good characters very hard, especially in upper Heroic levels. I know most people play whatever Frankenstein monstrosity beats the game, meaning they are all Neutral, but silly me, I want to play Good characters. Since I will not use any of these items, please do not change anything. I merely offer this feedback so you know the issue exists. From my perspective, Lifesealed is a fantastic attribute.

.....

The Flame and the Frost and The Earth and the Sky rings are almost really good. If the Legendary versions were Spell Absorption instead of Spell Resistance and comprised a two piece set, I would need to take a serious look at my Level 32 equipment. Fun set bonuses: Divine Energy Resistance; Permanent Elemental Shield! If this happens, I need level 32 Assassinate and False Life augments instead of Insightful Physical Sheltering and Insightful Magical Sheltering. It just never ends...

Or...make those rings a three piece set with a helm that has False Life, Insightful Constitution, Assassinate, Resistance, and an Augment slot. Yeah. *laughs* Just code up the exact equipment pieces I need. Oh dear.

.....

What do the wands do?

[Lencrennis]

Very few things will consistently make the 39 reflex DC in heroics. Monster saves are garbage for the most part.

What you are not factoring in is that the ToEE AoEs scale much better than most single target effects. It's 2.625 multiplied by the amount of monsters in a group. Thus, you'd only need 4 monsters in a group for your ML 7 ToEE weapon to be outdpsing Lightning Strike - and most mobs are far bigger than that in DDO, especially given SSG's obsession in the past few years with making EVERY encounter a stupidly large mob. Plus, if you have strikethrough or are cleaving, then it's that many more chances to proc the AoE, thereby multiplying your damage even further. It's not uncommon for a TWF melee, or anyone cleaving, to proc it 2/3 times in an encounter, and insta-gib everything there, even as late as Gianthold/Necro 4.

Yes, the math is difficult to parse out exactly, but you'd have to use them yourself to truly get a feel for how gamebreaking they are. I was skeptical at first, but years ago when I started using my first ToEE weapon, it was staggering to me how ridiculous they are. No other melee weapons (barring the Blade of Clouds, which ALSO has AoE) are as useful for the entire heroic game as the ToEE melee weapons are. Or at least, up until a very high level in heroics... at which point the ML 7 will have more than done its duty. My point is: these are really flippin' good weapons and Steelstar is flat-out wrong when he claims "these don't fulfill a critical niche." It's an arbitrary and unneeded change.

Yes, Greensteel sucks, but we can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can talk about how OP the ML 7 ToEE weapons are, AND talk about how horrible power creep has left GS for years now. The two discussions are not mutually exclusive, and they both need to be had.

Yes, Meteoric Star Rubies and other Ruby Eyes exist, but what you're ignoring is that ToEE weapons have augment slots for those, too. Plus, Ruby Eyes/Meteoric only have a 2% chance to proc: that's less than half the chance of what ToEE AoEs are.

At any rate, I don't understand the decision to just get rid of the items from loot tables entirely. All this does is 1) give an unfair disadvantage to newer players and 2) stultify weapon diversity. So whatever, do what you want, I guess - there's a reason I haven't spent a cent on this game in years. I was kind of excited about this update due to completionist being autogranted, but in light of the ToEE loot nerf + the nonsensical nerf to sonic blast, I've gone back to my default reaction of "meh" as I do with most updates.

Of course it's wrong and arbitrary. That's what the current team DOES. Come, sit on the sidelines and watch them screw up. It's more fun than the actual game. :)

[Kielbasa]

All that really needs to happen to please the people who like the old ToEE crafting is for the new version and the old version of ToEE to exist in the game at the same time. There is a normal and extended version of haunted halls why not just allow 2 versions of ToEE?

[QuantumFX]

<EDIT>Removed some stuff that no longer applies due to discord screenshot. Thanks for taking that feedback to heart.</EDIT>


We talked through a number of other feedback points that came up, including Spell Crit augments
Thank you.

I love the Legendary Sapphire of Riposte. No notes.

The Rubies of <Element> Blast are a bit regressive. I thought you guys wanted out of the "Does damage based on crit multiplier" enchantments? Perhaps making them act like the new enchantment that pops up on rare random loot would be a better fit?

I don't hate the The Rubies of Implement's <Element>, but I was expecting level 32 values. I'd really like to not have to depend on Randall Lyric for everything.

Is Elemental Victory gone?

I kind of hate the +15 Artifact bonus to Melee/Ranged power on all the sets. Is too common. It's on every 3 piece melee armor set, Saltmarsh Explorer, Legendary Windlasher, At least one of the Red Fens sets and multiple VoN sets. Why not some options for Artifact bonus to Doublestrike, Doubleshot, Assassinate and Tactics, Seeker, Missile Deflection, Armored Agility and Dodge cap instead? (And, yes, I see that Helpless damage and threat reduction is available, but Melee/ranged power is overdone.)

[Arkai]

Hi! Quick question, are old named loot weapons still dropping? I mean, elemental bloom, spinal tap, etc.

[SWCarter]

The Legendary Tempest's Inferno set is only showing the heroic values in the tooltip - +5 to Melee/Ranged Power, +10 to Fire Spell Power, +5% to Helpless Damage. And interestingly enough, both the tooltip and the item details are wrong. It's granting me neither, but instead +15 to Fire Spell Power.

[Steelstar]

The Legendary Tempest's Inferno set is only showing the heroic values in the tooltip - +5 to Melee/Ranged Power, +10 to Fire Spell Power, +5% to Helpless Damage. And interestingly enough, both the tooltip and the item details are wrong. It's granting me neither, but instead +15 to Fire Spell Power.

I definitely see what you mean on the item tooltip vs. the effect tooltip - The effect tooltip is showing the Heroic values, we'll get that fixed.

However, the set does seem to be properly giving +30 Fire Spell Power - are you sure you don't have another Artifact Bonus to Fire Spell Power somewhere on you?

[Epicsoul]

Edit: Wrong thread.

However, I will comment on one item. Is the Emblem of Elemental Evil supposed to only have 3 useful stats? The Taint of Evil taking up an effect slot isn't cool

[Seph1roth5]

Steel mentioned in discord that it would be nice to upgrade wands at sometime in the future. Until such future, please don't waste yours and our time with these. Like stat damage in saltmarsh weapons, you KNOW they are useless, WHY are they a thing?

[SWCarter]

However, the set does seem to be properly giving +30 Fire Spell Power - are you sure you don't have another Artifact Bonus to Fire Spell Power somewhere on you?

I was wearing a full Legendary Dread set and a full Legendary Saltmarsh set while testing, so I wouldn't anticipate a conflict. Both of those sets only add to Universal spell power (Artifact and Profane), which shouldn't overlap with Artifact Fire spell power in any way, correct?

[QuantumFX]

I was wearing a full Legendary Dread set and a full Legendary Saltmarsh set while testing, so I wouldn't anticipate a conflict. Both of those sets only add to Universal spell power (Artifact and Profane), which shouldn't overlap with Artifact Fire spell power in any way, correct?

The Saltmarsh Explorer set is lying to you. It's not providing Universal Spell Power, instead it's providing Spell power to each individual spell type. I submitted a bug report on this a couple months ago, (Request #241343) and nothing appears to have been fixed.

If you have a chat window with "Effects" turned on, you'll see where the conflict is happening. Chat configuration for troubleshooting item effects:
https://i.imgur.com/AVasekx.png

This is what the messages will look like:
https://i.imgur.com/BzMAUux.png

[bobbryan2]

We did see this response, and discuss it internally; however, we won't be moving forward with adapting the weapons here, sorry.

So... I saw this, and absolutely agreed with the person that was saying these weapons occupy a specific niche. These weapons are pretty amazing at lvl 7, and I usually use them until 14 on every melee build.

But, like he said, this was purely because of the AoE proc on natural 20. Why don't you scrub the augments for heroic that add freezing blast (for instance) and make it the freezing gale effect instead. That way you could put the coolest effect of any of the elemental weapons and add it to your other favorite weapons.

[SWCarter]

The Saltmarsh Explorer set is lying to you. It's not providing Universal Spell Power, instead it's providing Spell power to each individual spell type. I submitted a bug report on this a couple months ago, (Request #241343) and nothing appears to have been fixed.

Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I don't normally wear the Saltmarsh set and assumed the tooltip was accurate. So the fix here is to either update the Saltmarsh set to actually provide Universal spell power as advertised (preferred), or change the tooltip to reflect that it's +15 to every individual spell power and therefore doesn't stack with lots of other set bonuses.

[HailBlazR]

So... I saw this, and absolutely agreed with the person that was saying these weapons occupy a specific niche. These weapons are pretty amazing at lvl 7, and I usually use them until 14 on every melee build.

But, like he said, this was purely because of the AoE proc on natural 20. Why don't you scrub the augments for heroic that add freezing blast (for instance) and make it the freezing gale effect instead. That way you could put the coolest effect of any of the elemental weapons and add it to your other favorite weapons.

I am that person, and appreciate seeing people back me up on this. I may have exaggerated how good they are, but yes, they are certainly some of the best heroic weapons throughout the entire game, certainly until at least Syranians.

We already sorta have Ruby Eyes + Meteoric Star Rubies as augments, but they're rarer and don't proc as often. So I'm not sure adding in more AoE augments is the best solution. Although I certainly wouldn't oppose it! More augments = more weapon diversity = a good thing.

Upon further reflection, I realize that there are two simple solutions:



Rework the crafting system to be something like Greensteel or Alchemicals. These systems existed YEARS before ToEE did and were far more seamless. In those crafting systems, each weapon/accessory type only has ONE blank. These blanks can further be customized via the crafting system. After thinking about it, I really don't see why ToEE had to have 500+ blanks in the first place. That was a needlessly convoluted, Rube Goldberg-esque approach to a crafting system. Never should've existed in the first place.
Add in more heroic weapons with AoE effects. If you ARE going to completely throw out the baby with the bathwater, then this is the best approach you could take. Blade of Clouds and Echo of Whelm are great options for their levels (6 and 9 respectively). If ToEE weapons are being nixed, then the best approach from here would be to add in more weapons for other types that have AoE.


Or, for the sake of promoting loot diversity, why not both? Both of these solutions are fairly simple and I'd imagine there wouldn't really be any opposition from the playerbase. If any at all.

[QuantumFX]

Sorry for not getting a screenshot, but the Implement Rubies did not appear to give a Implement bonus to an Attuned Dinosaur Bone Heavy Mace. The specific rubies I slotted were Acid and Fire, and I didn't see the implement bonus on the item inspection.

[bobbryan2]

I am that person, and appreciate seeing people back me up on this. I may have exaggerated how good they are, but yes, they are certainly some of the best heroic weapons throughout the entire game, certainly until at least Syranians.

We already sorta have Ruby Eyes + Meteoric Star Rubies as augments, but they're rarer and don't proc as often. So I'm not sure adding in more AoE augments is the best solution. Although I certainly wouldn't oppose it! More augments = more weapon diversity = a good thing.

Upon further reflection, I realize that there are two simple solutions:



Rework the crafting system to be something like Greensteel or Alchemicals. These systems existed YEARS before ToEE did and were far more seamless. In those crafting systems, each weapon/accessory type only has ONE blank. These blanks can further be customized via the crafting system. After thinking about it, I really don't see why ToEE had to have 500+ blanks in the first place. That was a needlessly convoluted, Rube Goldberg-esque approach to a crafting system. Never should've existed in the first place.
Add in more heroic weapons with AoE effects. If you ARE going to completely throw out the baby with the bathwater, then this is the best approach you could take. Blade of Clouds and Echo of Whelm are great options for their levels (6 and 9 respectively). If ToEE weapons are being nixed, then the best approach from here would be to add in more weapons for other types that have AoE.


Or, for the sake of promoting loot diversity, why not both? Both of these solutions are fairly simple and I'd imagine there wouldn't really be any opposition from the playerbase. If any at all.

I use the meteoric augments occasionally, but they're not on the same level. The damage isn't on par in a lvl 7 weapon (it scales on the min lvl of the item). I think it's probably a 2% proc rate vs a 5%. I think you could simply add 4-5 augments that actually have those buffs: electric storm, freezing gale, acid torrent, etc. Slap a lvl 8 min level on them, and you can add the only effect that makes these weapons truly unique back to the loot tables.

Outside that one effect, the weapons are trash, but they just give a great low-level AoE attack for melees.

I agree with your other ideas as well, but I can't even see me wanting an acid blast augment if they added it. I would truly crave an acid torrent augment, though.

[Flopperjack]

I was not able to look at this preview sadly, but I did not see anything mentioned so I just wanted to say again; if possible pretty please find a way to get the element vulnerability stacks back in, in recent gearing options you have paved a better path for arcane archers and eldritch knights and one of the best weapons for them was the toee weapons for the purpose of giving enemies extra damage from their toggles. Currently theres only a small handful of items that increase vulnerability to elements so its a terrible shame to lose that option just when you guys are starting to support those builds more.

Edit: i am not asking to just put the toee weapons back in, but maybe find a way to make an augment for the vulnerability like you did the blasts or make some other way that could be gotten through maybe a set or new items.

[LightBear]

I, for one, am happy with the ml:7 becoming ml:8. This makes me want to slot an ml:8 augment in this stuff instead of keeping it empty for some odd and silly personal reason.
I don't know why but putting an ml:4 augment feels weak and an ml:8 means I can't use it at level 7.

So, thx for stripping away that personal nuance.


How ever, the update introduction text does not mention anything on existing items currently available in ToEE.
What happens to these?
Some of the named items (not the craftable stuff) have some unique properties assigned to them.
So curious minds want to know.
Personally I'm most interested in the Golden Orb (heroic, epic and now legendary versions.) and the assassins' kiss.

[Annex]

Thank you for putting both set bonuses on the rings.

[noinfo]

Making the weapons raid upgradeable via schism seems like a no brainer but...

[DRoark]

We did see this response, and discuss it internally; however, we won't be moving forward with adapting the weapons here, sorry.

There's nothing close, removing the best part of ToEE gear and using generic filler items, didn't really do ToEE any good at all.
If you planned on totally removing the weapons, at least the augments could have had the same effect and been ML8, the
ones that were added are the same generic 70 with a fancy name.

Honestly, U56 has been pretty bad for players in many areas.