Lamannia Character Bank Update Feedback

[Cordovan]

Creating a specific thread to gather your feedback on the updated Character Bank changes seen now on Lamannia. From the notes:

Character Bank Update


Character Bank UI has been updated with new functionality and performance improvements! You will begin with the same amount of Character Bank space that you had on your account before the release

[GoldyGopher]

Some Questions

Can we rename the Tabs?
Answer: Yes - Using the Arrow Keys on the Top Right you can rename the Tabs.
comment: Be nice if there was a mouse over tool tip.

If you delete Tab 1 and already have tab 2, if you then create a new tab you can have two tab 2s.
Answer: You can rename the tabs.

Can we search across all tabs?

Changes to TR Cache?
Answer: TR Cache is also changed.

Changes to Crafting Storage? I would be really happy for that.

If I have a stackable item in Tab 3 (thieves tools) and I drop more thieves tools in the main tab will they auto stack in tab 3 or will I have two separate stacks one in main and one in tab 3?

What are the arrow keys on the top right of the window supposed to do?
Answer - Used for Renaming the Tabs

Maximum Number of Tabs?
Answer: 8 plus main

New Slots Available for Character or Shared Bank?
Answer: There doesn't seem to be any available at this time.

Tried to link an image but no go today.

[Kalapurka]

Creating a specific thread to gather your feedback on the updated Character Bank changes seen now on Lamannia. From the notes:

Character Bank Update


Character Bank UI has been updated with new functionality and performance improvements! You will begin with the same amount of Character Bank space that you had on your account before the release


may you add a photo or a list of new functionality please?

[QuantumFX]

Give us the ability to rename the tabs and it'll be perfect.

EDIT 2: ****, the above is a lie! You have to move items from character bank to inventory and then to shared bank. I just want to move stuff from my character bank to the shared bank!

EDIT: The above statement is true so long as the "Where'd my TR cache go?' bug is quashed before this goes live.

"Where'd my TR cache go?' Steps to reproduce?
1. Transfer character with TR cache to lammaland.
2. Open bank.
3. Create Tab.
4. Move all your epic items to the new tab.
5. Close bank.
6. Reopen bank.
7. Ask self "Where'd my TR cache go?'

Steps to remedy.
1. Logout.
2. Login
3. Go visit bank in House C.

[Vordax]

Give us the ability to rename the tabs and it'll be perfect.
Saw this in the discord, looks like you can.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/903639068712243250/1006620778806120568/unknown.png

[Tanky]

Y'all are burying the lead. How many more inventory slots can be acquired compared to live? Bank vs. character.

[Cordovan]

Y'all are burying the lead. How many more inventory slots can be acquired compared to live? Bank vs. character.

They should be equal for now at least.

[GoldyGopher]

Y'all are burying the lead. How many more inventory slots can be acquired compared to live? Bank vs. character.

I was unable to purchase additional slots in this preview.

[Tanky]

They should be equal for now at least.
Still burying the lead.

How many more inventory slots will be available when this feature is available on live? While the back-end may not have been implemented yet, surely you've done the engineering due diligence to determine how many more inventory slots can be added.

[Greantun]

The capacity value changes based on what is in a specific tab, even though you can't have the total.

For example, if I have 110 spots, put 8 things in the main tab and 2 things in the second tab.

The main tab says 8 of 110, the second tab it changes to 2 of 110.

Is there supposed to be a total of 110, so that number shouldn't change per tab, or do you get 110 per tab.

The wording and functionality don't seem to fit.

[Greantun]

Windows not closing together.

If you close the shared account bank window, none of the others close, so it looks like you can interact with them, but you can't

[PsychoBlonde]

EDIT: The above statement is true so long as the "Where'd my TR cache go?' bug is quashed before this goes live.

I suspect they are working up to getting rid of TR cache--the only reason it exists is because you get extra bags from favor, so you might not have as much storage post-TR as you do pre-TR. They can easily just perma-grant the favor storage and get rid of TR cache as a thing.

[karatemack]

I suspect they are working up to getting rid of TR cache--the only reason it exists is because you get extra bags from favor, so you might not have as much storage post-TR as you do pre-TR. They can easily just perma-grant the favor storage and get rid of TR cache as a thing.

Disagree. A lot of folks have far more than just 40 items in their TR cache. Giving us free inventory space most of us already have would NOT do anything meaningful to actually address the issues with have with inventory management. For example: I currently have 3 bank characters to hold all of the overflow gear for my main in-between lives. I would need upwards of +200 inventory/character bank slots to be able to house the items for my main on my main. This will likely get even worse as we progress closer to 40.

Aside from the fact the players with most/all of their lives completed can steamroll heroics- I know a lot of players don't bother to keep sets of leveling gear because of the mess involved with managing inventory. Hopefully we will get more information about the fully implemented plan with this change. Otherwise we can only really comment on the UI.

[neain2008]

This bank update is AWESOME!!!!

Not a complaint, just a wish. I wish that you will update the crafting storage the same way. If it doesn't happen, that's completely fine as well with how AWESOME the update is to the rest of the bank.

But if you can fit it in, please at the very least add the "sort by" option to the crafting list. I'm sure that I have at least a full page of crafting things that I need to toss (or at least do something with), but because I can't sort it at all, that page (or more) worth of items is spread out over a full 59! pages.

[Sqrlmonger]

So having taken a look at this I think organizationally this is a very nice improvement. Being able to sort items into tabs of varied size and not worry about filling slots is quite nice.

However, in terms of inventory space it seems to have inexplicably been designed to be the same amount of space as before.


There’s even a feature that should be both a boon of better performance and something people have asked about: an updated Character Bank. Not only will we be able to offer more character bank space (finally!), but it’ll perform better from a server perspective too.

Don't get me wrong I expect to pay for more space (and I have already) but I did expect that the base amount of space available was going to be going up.

The amount of stuff we store in DDO is exponentially more than it was when the old system was designed. So retaining not just the same order of magnitude of space, but the same space is nonsensical.

I'm happy to pay for more space, but not if even after having paid for it I still won't have enough. Or, what could be even more worrying, not if I end up paying hundreds of dollars per character to achieve "sufficient" space.

I'm reserving judgement to see where this lands but the upgrade in terms of organization is fine, great even, but in terms of space looks quite bad.

[Sqrlmonger]

Suggestion if its not already doing this:

When you TR, if your bank has tabs, retain the tab names and contents when moving items into the TR cache.

This would allow you, for example, to keep all of your level 5 gear, or your consumables, together in one tab as you move from life to life.

[jamkriz]

The capacity value changes based on what is in a specific tab, even though you can't have the total.

For example, if I have 110 spots, put 8 things in the main tab and 2 things in the second tab.

The main tab says 8 of 110, the second tab it changes to 2 of 110.

Is there supposed to be a total of 110, so that number shouldn't change per tab, or do you get 110 per tab.

The wording and functionality don't seem to fit.

This! There needs to be a total line which shows your overall total since the other number is only showing total per tab.
Also, if it's possible to have a multiselector so that you can grab more than one item to move

[Sqrlmonger]

The capacity value changes based on what is in a specific tab, even though you can't have the total.

For example, if I have 110 spots, put 8 things in the main tab and 2 things in the second tab.

The main tab says 8 of 110, the second tab it changes to 2 of 110.

Is there supposed to be a total of 110, so that number shouldn't change per tab, or do you get 110 per tab.

The wording and functionality don't seem to fit.

I ran into this problem as well.

If it is intended that you get the full capacity PER TAB then I would retract my complaint about space, but it seemed to me intentionally limited.

If it is intentional, as I suspect, then the capacity # failing to update is going to confuse a lot of people.

[hulkfan5511]

Ive been wanting a better way to store my stuff for ages now. The new system is WAY better than the one on live servers and one might be able to assume its smoother too? I would definitely cough up the points to have this expanded. Goodbye mules!!!:D

[LittleLexi]

Having multiple rename-able tabs for our banks is nice and all...But honestly – none of it is going to matter much to me in the end, if we don't also get more free/earnable/purchasable space. We're still dealing with far too little space for way too much stuff, that eats away at our actual questing time.

Is there a particular reason why we can't get more character and bank slots than the current maximum?

[QuantumFX]

I suspect they are working up to getting rid of TR cache--the only reason it exists is because you get extra bags from favor, so you might not have as much storage post-TR as you do pre-TR. They can easily just perma-grant the favor storage and get rid of TR cache as a thing.

LOL. No.

[Aelonwy]

Making Minor Artifacts BTA would free up a tremendous amount of space. I don't know about everyone but I tend to hold onto EVERY SINGLE ONE my characters come across that I think they MIGHT EVER use on THIS OR ANY future life I think I MIGHT run them through because... because their acquisition is so freaking random. There is no single place to ensure you get artifact A on character A, you just have to KEEP running character A through content X until it randomly happens. No matter how bored you are of running character A or sick to death of running content X because just as soon as you log a different character to run... *BAM*... artifact A will drop to the wrong character.

[Zretch]

Please please please please please please pleeeeeeease add the same type of filtering criteria to the crafting storage tab! Even if you don't allow for tabs, please allow us to filter on:

Collectables
Filagrees
Augments
Ingredients
Festival Currency (Festivault, Winter, Maybar, Crystal Cove, etc)
Quest Currency (Ravenloft Totems, Saltmarsh Hay, Quartermaster Chits, Sharn Ingredients, etc)
etc.

Trying to manage hundreds of pages of stuff in crafting storage is a nightmare, made even worse now that you're introducing new augments that don't follow a Diamond/Topaz/Sapphire/Ruby/Essence naming convention.

Otherwise, I like what you're doing. Is there any technical issue that prevents you from having more than 9 tabs? Is it that you can't scroll the tab list if the window is too small?

[Khurse]

You can now search the reincarnation cache. = win.

I can honestly live without the rest of it. Id be happy with just that.

[mikarddo]

I am going to have to go against the grain here.

In my opinion the entire idea to focus on the character bank is backwards and show a focus that I believe is bad for the game. Rather than improve (marginally) gameplay for a SINGLE character the focus should be on improving gameplay for the MULTIPLE characters on the account.

The two main issues with inventory are:
- Bound to Character items.
- The need for Mules and the inability to search those without having to log that character in (notwithstanding 3rd party programs).

This change to the character bank adresses neither and worse the focus on the character bank is exactly a focus on BtC items and mules and nothing else and hence a step in the wrong direction.

Instead the focus should have been towards reducing or even removing the need for having a character bank at all.
- BtC - the game already makes it difficult to keep a multitude of alts due to past lives and reaper xp systems. There is no need to further make this difficult with BtC items as well. All items from content that is older than say 1.5 year should simply become BtA leaving only the newest wonders BtC. That alone would greatly reduce the need for BtC bank space as well as the TR cache.
- Mules. Rather than make the individual character banks of mules easier to search the focus should be towards making it possible to search through items without having to log in a mule. I.e., more shared bank space and better search options for that.

So, much as the technical solution sounds like it has some good ideas the overall idea to improve character bank space is misplaced. On the characters I actually play I spend maybe 5 mins each life looking for gear in the character bank, most of which would not be needed if those items were BtA instead. So, the update is really to make mules easier to use? Not exactly an admireable vision.

[Seph1roth5]

I like the searchability/customization, but think it could be a little more streamlined. Like...have all 2-3 windows open snapped side by side instead of all in a jumble. And make them better color-coded (or let us change the color!) Right now shared bank and tr cache are the same, and character bank is a light grey/blue.

[dogsoldier]

I was expecting more space with this. My plan for hardcore has been to end up with a couple of new mules. I looked at this to see whether that was still needed, and the answer is yes absolutely I need more mules to store the isle of dread loot.

[MikeCash]

A number of these issues have been mentioned, but here's my summary of usage problems I found with the new bank

I couldn't delete the first new tab created (2nd Tab). 3rd and subsequent could be deleted and their items moved to main. Tried on character, shared and TR banks.
Long tab names didn't fit in the button, covers the "X" and goes outside the bottom of the button. Could be resolution related, I'm running 1920x1200. Maybe resizing the windows could also increase the button size proportionally
Closing the shared bank doesn't close the other windows (annoying). When the shared bank is closed, you can't take items out of the other two banks (really annoying). Pressing <Esc> does close all three.
Tooltips would be great. When clicking on the edit arrow, the cursor doesn't go onto the tab label, so you don't realize you need to click on the text to start editing it.
I also had the problem with the TR cache disappearing and not coming up when I opened the bank, relogging fixed and haven't been able to reproduce since.
Capacity should just show the total, do we really need to know how many items are in each tab, when there is still a hard total limit?

[Khalibano]

Just gone to Lama to check the bank changes. Some comments/thoughts/suggestions:
- Thank you for dedicating engineering and other resources into making improvements to the storage system. This very much needed and has been a popular request for years
- I really like the ability to create tabs to help organise items better. Could I please suggest for more than 8 extra tabs to be available?
- I also like being able to rename them
- I would like to see the same upgrades given to the crafting storage (i.e. tabs, filters, etc.)

- I would personally like to be able to store items in the order that I like, a bit like the current bank system is now. One of the things I dislike the most about the way the shared bank is currently now on live is that things cannot be re-arranged once inside the bank, unless you take them out and drop them back in the order you want them to be. It was disappointing to see the regular bank become like that
- At a minimum, perhaps functionality to move items up/down within the bank could be added (much like the current augment bags allow you to do)?
- Please also consider adding the ability to move items from the character bank straight into the shared and/or crafting storage, rather than needing to move them into inventory first

- My biggest disappointment was not seeing more space being given by default. Considering the game has been around for such a long time, that it offers a very large amount of desirable loot, and that the loot can be re-used via reincarnation, it would feel respectful to at least double/triple the amount of basic space that is given. Too many of us have to have at least 3+ extra characters to function solely as banks. I play 23 alts, and have 6 bank characters, for which I purchased all extra inventory and bank space too. I know I might be an odd one in this regard, but I am certain that storage is currently in need of massive expansion, even to those who have already spent a considerable amount of money to max storage
- Logging in and out of mules to look for the items you want and transfer them via shared bank to the character you need them on is very time consuming and clunky. I woild very much like to see this system of storage gone completely.
- Apart from the above, I am very hopeful that more space will be made available to purchase in the future

[Targal]

I think It's acceptable at the current stage, but can be improved.

- I would want is that the search bar should search everything regardless of which tab the items are in, and the result should show where those are. For example, It would be like "[icon] [item name] [tab location] [scollbar]"
- The tab rename stuff is not intuitive. I was curious of what the arrow thing is and I had some long time to identify it. There should be a hint icon or a pop-up window.

[Targal]

by the way.... VIP feature to expand your maximum bank slot will make players tempted.
btw Elder scrolls online VIP subscription is x2 to bank slots... lol

[Redgob]

The changes to personal bank and cache are great (current bugs aside) and much needed. But PLEASE do EXTENSIVE tests of all item-handling code in there. We don't need a repeat of past mistakes again. Make sure there are no race conditions, test all possible ways of using the new UI (items going in/out of tabs, dragging, stacks splitting, moving directly to inventory/mail/other banks etc.) in various conditions like bad network and artificially generated lag via network emulators. Seriously.

[neain2008]

Found a possible TR cache issue.

I had created a tab to test if you could move things around inside of the TR cache (it worked, that was awesome).
then I went to TR and emptied out the main tab, and I forgot to move items from the extra tab I had made and closed out of the bank.
as kinda expected, when I went to TR it complained about items in the TR cache.
I went back to the bank to remove the rest of the items... and my TR cache didn't pull up.
I closed all the way out to the desktop and reloaded lamania and it would still not pull up the TR cache and is still complaining about there being a TR cache.

hope this helps!

[Kza]

All is good!

But for me even more important: 1. let you be able search for items accountwide. (all my lvl 5 stuff on all toons on server come up and i see on what toon i have it).

2. As other already said: no need for btc items at all imho: as long as pastlives and reaper xp isnt accountwide it is just too punishing for alts imho. (Atleast let all artifacts be bta).

I like the update but i had LOVED it if my nr 1 had been introduced. (i have so many mules and toons its a nightmare to find my litany augment or that rare filigree or that weapon and so on...)

[Cashiry]

Crafting UI should be the same, however will most likely need more than 8 total tabs.

[cru121]

Add some button to click to make filter changes (level) effective.

Sorting: Change "Minimum Level [1-30]" to 32... or add a future-proof labels (for example, "Low level first", "High level first")

Tabs:
* Add the "All" tab
* Add number of items within each tab into tab name, for example Main (135)
* Consider a "Tabs left" / "Tabs right" switch

Add "Export all" button to generate items list.

[Sqrlmonger]

How does this new system interact with guild storage?

Will each guild storage chest have tabs of its own?

Not having a guild on Lamma I cannot test this.

[Redgob]

One thing I'd change is to rename "Slot" selector to "Type" and add "Consumables" (or "Potions"), "Wands" and "Scrolls". Or leave "Slot" alone and add "Backpack" slot type for all stuff that's not equipped anywhere.

[nicklesmack]

Crafting UI should be the same, however will most likely need more than 8 total tabs.


so i was thinking about if they applied the tab design to the crafting storage too...moving thousands of stacks of items to individual tabs seems like sooo much effort, unless it somehow sorted itself out by augment, filigree, rune, etc. that seems very hard to do on the programming side though (says it with no background in modern programming...so take it for what it is worth).

And then every time we dumped an augment or crafting / collectable bag would have to move each item to respective tabs, yukky.

[CeltEireson]

so i was thinking about if they applied the tab design to the crafting storage too...moving thousands of stacks of items to individual tabs seems like sooo much effort, unless it somehow sorted itself out by augment, filigree, rune, etc. that seems very hard to do on the programming side though (says it with no background in modern programming...so take it for what it is worth).

And then every time we dumped an augment or crafting / collectable bag would have to move each item to respective tabs, yukky.

The ingredients storage should have really also offered the option to increase the numbers of items per slot - plus the number varies so much between different items in terms of their max stack size in the bank storage. If they made the max stack size the same for all items in the bank storage (Say 10k) with an initial size of 2k, and then gave you the option to buy increases in the stack size up to the maximum. So instead of a very large number of one item taking up to 10 slots it would then only take one slot. And it would be a hell of a lot easier to browse through your ingredient storage.

Of course, there's probably so many changes required to accomodate this that its not feasible, but one can dream. And there's the issue of the people that bought increases to number of slots - how are they affected by any changes. Why can't online life be simpler!

[Elfishski]

Creating a specific thread to gather your feedback on the updated Character Bank changes seen now on Lamannia. From the notes:

Character Bank Update


Character Bank UI has been updated with new functionality and performance improvements! You will begin with the same amount of Character Bank space that you had on your account before the release


I won't have a chance to look on Lamannia for myself, but I've looked at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APkTOj-MAS0 and just wanted to note that it's fantastic to see progress on banking!


This is an IMPROVEMENT on the status quo.
This is still a few steps away from being an excellent experience.



Issues (ignoring minor bugs like capacity display that can presumably be resolved and assuming it's all rigorously tested to avoid either lost items or rampant duping bugs):

Searching account-wide is still a disaster, and in some ways made worse by this - if you sort items by tag then when you want to find something you have to look through each individual tag on each individual character - agony even with improved filtering and searching
This doesn't help with finding things in the black hole that is the crafting storage
The expanded UI means the screen is cluttered with big overlapping boxes (bad on a high res monitor, I can imagine unusable playing at minimum res)


Suggested changes that I hope would be feasible:

Add an 'All tabs' tab as well as the Main and custom tabs that just displays everything at once
Unify all the banks into one box, so the sections across the top go... "All locations", "Shared account bank", "Character bank", "Reincarnation cache", "Crafting storage"
"All locations" displays everything from Shared bank + Character bank + Reincarnation cache (with either a color scheme for rows or a little icon to the side to show where they actually are - and ideally allow that location to be changed with a little dropdown on the icon if possible) - now finding items is a breeze wherever they are if you go to "All locations" on the top and "All tabs" on the right!
Dropping an item into the "all locations" tab would default to crafting storage if possible, then shared bank, then character bank
Dramatically scale up the amount of shared bank space for sale to reduce the need for mules for the masses and masses of BTA items, as well as selling incremental additional character bank space
Maintain the tag of an item so it keeps that tab when you move it between bank locations or characters or when you TR (but drop the tag when another player acquires it through trade or selling) [may already be the case?]


Bonus extra changes that may be less technically feasible:

Add a filter option for set bonus as well as slot? Set bonuses are such a big part of the game now and often what I'm looking for is the rest of a set.
Apply the same tab system for crafting storage, but manually tagging and arranging thousands of these would be a nightmare so I suggest applying default tags to all items based on whichever crafting system they belong to. I don't know how else anyone would sort these?
Replace the Guild chests with a Guild bank of equal and/or greater total capacity including cargo vault chests and add that to the tabs above (possibly as a UI option in settings: I have a small guild with a few close friends and this would be nice, others in big guilds might not want to accidentally risk dropping a cool unbound item in their guild bank)

[gravisrs]

PROTIP for the collectables (I hole Lynn is reading this):

Please make collectables ML:1/6/11/16/21/26 for each tier - it won't affect turning them in, or use in CC recipies, but allows to introduce ML filtering in crafting storage to sort them out. Similar thing for crafting mats (set ML as the minimum craftable items level for those, eg heroic Shroud mats ML:11, Thunder forged ML:22 etc)

Also it would be super QOL change for crafters if each collectable had a 3 letters description in its name describing rarity+tier+category (order of those 3 to be brainstormed to cover AH search variations)

Eg "Chipped Bone Talisman C4C" means Common, tier 4, Cultural
Eg "Scarlett Cryptmoss R5N" means Rare, tier 5, Natural





Is there a particular reason why we can't get more character and bank slots than the current maximum?

I'm sure you'll be able to buy those for DDO points in the future.

[Sorccadin]

So checking this out it seems promising.

Having 8 Tabs with 100+ Space seems really good to me. Now, if thats not intended, that would suck. Generally speaking most long term players easily have 10+ Mules with 80+ items each. What i would like to see is a bit more bank space and a "emty to bank" button on the TR cash (didnt have one, didnt have the time to look at it).

While we now can sort stuff inside the bank, the TR system will kill all work the second you TR and place everything inside the cash. I dont think the new bank will help in terms of sorting items for characters that TR often. But it does seem like inventory problem can be lessened and perhaps be removed entirely. A higher maximum of items per tabs would also be very cool - that way the nessassity for mules and constant log out shenanigans gets resolved. I cant name a single player enjoying checking 10 mules for 1 hour just to not find the item their looking for.

Seeing that we have a search bar and hearing the same is true for TR cash gives me hope for this. I still hope a little more work is put in for everyone to feel good about aquiring all the items - i mean, its a bank. It should have quite the high limit of storage and mule banking mostly is just annoying for everyone involved.

[Sqrlmonger]

So checking this out it seems promising.

Having 8 Tabs with 100+ Space seems really good to me. Now, if thats not intended, that would suck. Generally speaking most long term players easily have 10+ Mules with 80+ items each. What i would like to see is a bit more bank space and a "emty to bank" button on the TR cash (didnt have one, didnt have the time to look at it).

While we now can sort stuff inside the bank, the TR system will kill all work the second you TR and place everything inside the cash. I dont think the new bank will help in terms of sorting items for characters that TR often. But it does seem like inventory problem can be lessened and perhaps be removed entirely. A higher maximum of items per tabs would also be very cool - that way the nessassity for mules and constant log out shenanigans gets resolved. I cant name a single player enjoying checking 10 mules for 1 hour just to not find the item their looking for.

Seeing that we have a search bar and hearing the same is true for TR cash gives me hope for this. I still hope a little more work is put in for everyone to feel good about aquiring all the items - i mean, its a bank. It should have quite the high limit of storage and mule banking mostly is just annoying for everyone involved.

I don't think you actually have 8 tabs with 100 each. I tested in my bank by going 1 item short of maxing out my overall slots in just "Main" and 1 item in a different tab. It gave me "bank full" error messages when trying to add more at that point to either tab.

[Cordovan]

The number of slots on offer should be what it normally is today, although this system gets us in a place where we can hopefully start offering more storage in the future.

[ahpook]

I installed the Lam client to test out the new bank and mouse look changes.

On the bank changes I was concerned by the reports of tabs. I don't want to manage my stuff by looking around between tabs like we do now. But it seems that breaking out into tabs is optional and one can chose not to use the tabs if they don't want to. I for one do not want to bother with them and I am happy to use the filtering to get a subset of my bank rather than managing the organization manually with tabs. (At least I hope the tabs are optional and that they won’t be required once we get above 100 capacity.)

In fact, I would prefer it if the tabs were changed to instead of being "buckets" were merely predefined filters that would limit what one saw from the entire bank. Let the system worry about organizing rather than making me drop into the correct tab. I don't want to have to swap to the correct tab when depositing and risk having something mis-categorized and hard to find. If you are leaving the manual organization by tab, it would at least be nice if MAIN included everything in all tabs so when something does get misplaced you don't have to go through each tab.

I would like to see the filtering also include non-gear and have options for potions, scrolls, augments, etc. Or at the very least one choice under slots for everything not covered by the current slot selection. There is no easy way to see all one’s potions in the bank. The slots drop down could be bigger to minimize the need to scroll to use it. That makes the filtering more awkward than necessary.

I should add a big thanks for applying the new bank filtering to the Reincarnation Cache. I certainly won't mind the cache now that I can filter it by level and search it.

A button to clear the filters would be helpful so you can reset in 1 click. Clearing the level filters is especially awkward as you must select the editor, clear the current value and type in a new value and hit enter. To clear both lower and upper bounds is tedious.

The bottom of the bank window indicates paging. I hope that we won't be seeing any paging but if there is paging, I would expect the filtering will work across all pages. I would not expect the need for pages until we have banks with more than a few hundred slots.

I would not mind opening each bank window individually rather than getting all 3. With the speed improvements this might not be as big an issue as it is on live. However, it would still be nice to not lose the screen real estate to bank windows that you are not using. If the ability to close each independently remains that would also minimize this concern.

I cannot currently seem to move from the character bank to the shared bank directly. It seems that I need to move it my inventory first. I assume that this is a temporary issue. I would like a method to skip drag and drop all together to get stuff in the bank. We can double click a bank item to move it to our inventory, but it would be nice to also have a button or mechanism to move to the shared bank. Similar buttons to take items from the inventory into the bank would also be required. And if that could work on multiple items, that would be even better.

Overall, this is not the banking change I would have designed but it is close enough and so much better than what was there that I will happily give it thumbs up. Can we now get this interface into the inventory as well? I might use the user defined tabs if they were in the inventory.

[ahpook]

The number of slots on offer should be what it normally is today, although this system gets us in a place where we can hopefully start offering more storage in the future.

One thing to note about this fact is that made it a little hard to give feedback as we can't see what happens when we can put 300 items into the bank. Are some of the things we are seeing now limited but the limit is equal to the current overall bank limit?

For example, I can put 100 items in the character bank. Is there a limit of items per tab such that, should I later get to a 300 item character bank, I will need to split my items across 3 tabs? Also, there is paging feedback in the bank UI but a single page can handle 100 items. Can it handle 300 or will I end up with 3 pages should I get that much space? (Note I was going to test this using the shared bank, assuming it behaved similar to character bank, but moving that many items from my bank and inventory to the shared bank was too tedious.)

[Sqrlmonger]

The number of slots on offer should be what it normally is today, although this system gets us in a place where we can hopefully start offering more storage in the future.

Is there any plan to address the fact that it is FAR better to buy a new character slot than a new inventory/bank tab?

Character Slot + 45 minutes of work = 160 slots @ 625 Pts (iirc) = ~3.9 Pts per item slot
+20 Inventory or Bank slots = 20 Slots @ 595 Pts = 29.75 Pts per item slot

This makes character slots worth 3122 pts in inventory space alone, but you also get the added benefit of a character slot and the flexibility it provides beyond just being a mule.

Obviously there is additional hassle in managing these slots, but you're heavily incentivizing players to go through that hassle. In other words, you've designed the game to encourage players to be frustrated because any player who is budgeting their DDO pts (which is basically all of us) is going to look for the best pts deal and suffer through mule management. This is exactly what everyone is already doing and you are seeing posts about the inability to search multiple characters because of this.

The better solution, I think, would be to offer bank space for 3.9 pts per slot (or better) so that the incentive is to use whatever storage strategy works best for you without being forced to distribute items across multiple mules.

[Sorccadin]

The number of slots on offer should be what it normally is today, although this system gets us in a place where we can hopefully start offering more storage in the future.

So, basicly this just looks fancy for now and doesnt aim at solving inventory issues? Dont get me wrong, i appritate nice things, im just concerend that inventory will remain in a near unplayable state (if you care about collecting raid gear + artifacts etc.).
I feel like thats a bad thing, by far inventory is what anoyes me the most in the entirety of DDO and im sure im not alone. I personally get so infuriated by searching my 200 mules every time i swap builds for the things im missing. Not to mention the half hour you have to spend to prepare to TR (which arguably is the main selling system of DDO).

Hopfully you are right and you guys can actually offer WAY more than what is availible at this time. I dont wanna one day get so annoyed by inconvinient storeage design that i quit a super unique and fun game.

[Boeregard-Sarlona]

Just checked out the changes on Lamannia.

Thank you for all of the work and time you have put in to making this happen. This was by far the update that I was most excited about since February.

Here are my initial thoughts:

1. Character Bank Maximum Storage: Many others have said it, but there needs to be an increase here. It is exciting to hear that it might be a possibility in the future, but was a total kill-joy to find out that it is not happening at launch. Would love a solution to character hopping in order to find that item I need for a new build on my main. Sadly this does not seem to address this...yet. (side note...PLEASE get rid of BTC!!! This would solve many TR cache and character bank woes)

2. Tab System: It's a cool idea, but I cant see myself using it. It would take forever to set up each life. DDO is designed to push people to play only one character many many lives. I never find myself staying on a life long enough to care about organizing my bank. IF the character bank persisted from life to life, I might see myself taking the time to set it up once. I definitely will not use it in the TR cache. It would just take too much time. When I start a new life I literally put eyes on every piece of gear in my tr cache and pull items out for that life and store them in my character bank. If I am not planning to use certain pieces that life, I leave them in there until I TR. That way I only have to interact with the TR Cache 2 times per life.

The other thing I am concerned about (especially if the max size is still 100) is misplacing something in an incorrect tab. I can see the tab system actually being more of a pain in this way that a boon. However the search function might help with this...

3. Search Function: This is really cool. I will definitely use it in both the character bank and the TR Cache. This might be the biggest win out of all of it.

4. Screen Space: Wow! The banks take up a ton of room now. Please figure out a way to make them smaller. I cannot have my inventory, character bank, tr bank and shared bank open on the same screen without them overlapping somewhere. I think the design could be a little more streamlined. Maybe make the tabs above the main container and get rid of that whole right side of the windows.

Edit* Just went to bed and could not stop thinking about a solution to the inventory nightmare. What if there were not a character bank or a tr cache at all. What if the account bank was all we needed? It could have thousands of slots like the ingredient bank and THEN the tab system and search functions would be brilliant! I recognize this is not helpful for BTC stuff, but if you made everything BTA then you could eliminate character bank and tr cache all together. Okay, time to sleep.

[mikarddo]

The number of slots on offer should be what it normally is today, although this system gets us in a place where we can hopefully start offering more storage in the future.

Truth be told, I dont want more character bank space. I want less BtC clutter and I want less reason to use mules. So, the focus on character bank is misplaced.

[Dendrix]

Please provide a facility so I can save the contents of my banks to a fixed name text file in the following format to the my documents directory.
save all of them at once, or a button on each bank window allowing me to do it.

Servername - CharacterName - Personal Bank.txt
Servername - CharacterName - Shared Bank.txt
Servername - CharacterName - Reincarnation Bank.txt

[krimsonrane]

They should be equal for now at least.

This is my biggest issue with DDO right now. Nowhere near enough storage space.

Look at all the workarounds we use!
Hordes of mules who exist for no other reason than as a sub for storage.
TRd mules just to get the extra storage.
Putting items on AH then cancelling it to store the items in mail.
Using guild chests as personal storage. Some make one man guilds just for that purpose.

There are a few other ways but the point is that's how bad storage issues are here.
A new bank might look nice and be sleeker/easier to use but what we need right now is moar spaces. Lots moar spaces.

Anyone who simply can't TR because there's nowhere to put the cache items knows how it feels.

[Bluenoser]

Truth be told, I dont want more character bank space. I want less BtC clutter and I want less reason to use mules. So, the focus on character bank is misplaced.

^ This.

BTC reflects a very outdated attitude about the role of raids and raid loot in the game, and is especially odd now that BTC minor artifacts drop in regular quests and even explorer area chests. The system actively punishes players who raid a lot or who want to try different playstyles on their toons via TRing. Just get rid of BTC and the worst inventory capacity issues will disappear (and if people really hate logging mules to search for stuff, install the 3rd party software out there that allows you to search for stuff across your account. Yes, DDO should have done this itself years ago, but whatever.).

I do appreciate that DDO is a business, and they want to retain a way to monetize storage; fair enough, within reason. But the current system doesn't even do that well. My main toons, who raid and TR regularly, simply can't buy any more BTC space. And getting rid of BTC won't eliminate the need for mules and shared bank slots, so there's still $$ for DDO to make on those sales.

[carsonfball]

This is my biggest issue with DDO right now. Nowhere near enough storage space.

Look at all the workarounds we use!
Hordes of mules who exist for no other reason than as a sub for storage.
TRd mules just to get the extra storage.
Putting items on AH then cancelling it to store the items in mail.
Using guild chests as personal storage. Some make one man guilds just for that purpose.

Mules: yep
AH: I haven't done that one yet
Guild chests: Yep, nearly every life

Also: Gave things to my wife's character to hold onto while I reincarnate
Also 2: Gave things to one of the characters on my alt account to hold onto while I reincarnate

[carsonfball]

I do appreciate that DDO is a business, and they want to retain a way to monetize storage; fair enough, within reason. But the current system doesn't even do that well. My main toons, who raid and TR regularly, simply can't buy any more BTC space. And getting rid of BTC won't eliminate the need for mules and shared bank slots, so there's still $$ for DDO to make on those sales.

I agree. My two main characters (the one I mostly solo and the one I play with my wife) have bought all of the inventory slots, all of the character bank slots, and my account has all of the shared bank slots. Some of my mules also have most of the inventory and character banks slots and one is using the reincarnation cache to store cosmetics.

Getting rid of BTC would help a lot as my two mains would need a total of one of each minor artifact, not one per character. At this point, that would save at least a dozen slots. That's not even including random raid loot, wands, hand wraps, docents, and rune arms. Seriously, why are any of the rune arms or wands BTC? Most are extremely easy to farm (some are guaranteed rewards). It's not like they are rare items that need to be "earned" through lots of game play. I get a corruption of nature nearly every run. And, yes, I know I could get rid of it and just run the quest the next life for a nearly guaranteed one, but I shouldn't have to run the quest to get an item I already found before I can use it.

Edit: Now that lag is much less severe, bank space and the over use of BTC is my biggest complaint with the game.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

The number of slots on offer should be what it normally is today, although this system gets us in a place where we can hopefully start offering more storage in the future.

Honestly I kinda feel like you're missing the mark by not offering extra storage *right off the bat*. "Here's this new bank UI! And the best part about it is that it's going to allow us to be able to offer more storage in the future... ALSO THE FUTURE IS NOW, as a third character bank upgrade is available for purchase immediately!"

[mikarddo]

Honestly I kinda feel like you're missing the mark by not offering extra storage *right off the bat*. "Here's this new bank UI! And the best part about it is that it's going to allow us to be able to offer more storage in the future... ALSO THE FUTURE IS NOW, as a third character bank upgrade is available for purchase immediately!"

Honest, you may want to think about what you are asking for.

If SSG offers more char space for money right now and see that it works well for them - they will have even less reason to reduce the BtC clutter or improve on shared banks because that would lower the "need" for the players to purchase more character bank space.

What you are asking for is detrimental to a sound future for the entire inventory system.

[Vannessya]

With all those changes to banking, would it not be the perfect time to invest into the cosmetic tab wardrobe?


Thank you

[Tanky]

The number of slots on offer should be what it normally is today, although this system gets us in a place where we can hopefully start offering more storage in the future.
Providing 0 more inventory slots is lame.

[dogsoldier]

Providing 0 more inventory slots is lame.

Agreed. The February producer letter sounded like we would be getting more space; I was looking forward to that. New ways to organize and sort nothing isn't very helpful.

[carsonfball]

New ways to organize and sort nothing isn't very helpful.

If you have nothing to organize or sort, why are you complaining about needing more space?

[dogsoldier]

If you have nothing to organize or sort, why are you complaining about needing more space?

Nothing new, just the measly amount of space already available. New ways to count and sort the same four quarters that you have in your pocket, yay!

[Synthetic]

The ability to search the bank is great. I wish I could search all my characters at once of course, but this is still a huge improvement.

I will have to go back and play with the tabs during a future preview. I had no idea what they did when I was looking at them, but I didn't look to long.

Any chance you could make bank space as cheap as character slots. It's a bit ridiculous the go to for banking is having alternate characters rather than just buying bank space.

[Pandjed]

Agreed. The February producer letter sounded like we would be getting more space; I was looking forward to that. New ways to organize and sort nothing isn't very helpful.

This is the necessary first step and before adding any more space, it'd be great to have a base to do that.


The number of slots on offer should be what it normally is today, although this system gets us in a place where we can hopefully start offering more storage in the future.

I mean, I would love to not put my stuff into a buggy bank and therefore I'm all for letting the banks figure out the new system completely (especially in live servers), before some breakage may occur.

[Xgya]

PROTIP for the collectables (I hole Lynn is reading this):

Please make collectables ML:1/6/11/16/21/26 for each tier - it won't affect turning them in, or use in CC recipies, but allows to introduce ML filtering in crafting storage to sort them out. Similar thing for crafting mats (set ML as the minimum craftable items level for those, eg heroic Shroud mats ML:11, Thunder forged ML:22 etc)

Also it would be super QOL change for crafters if each collectable had a 3 letters description in its name describing rarity+tier+category (order of those 3 to be brainstormed to cover AH search variations)

Eg "Chipped Bone Talisman C4C" means Common, tier 4, Cultural
Eg "Scarlett Cryptmoss R5N" means Rare, tier 5, Natural

I disagree with the name changing, mostly because the collectables are already super confusing without adding 3 random letters most people won't figure what to do with. I agree searching for them is a pain, but that kind of addition would confuse the few people I've managed to introduce to crafting in the latest years even more than they currently are without that much of a benefit.

However, color-coding rarity and adding a minimum level would already be plenty without adding any more confusion - things already have a rarity grading color, and already have minimum levels. Collectables could have those too with a lot less confusion added.

I wholeheartedly agree with the minimum level change though, that would be peachy.

[Tanky]

If you have nothing to organize or sort, why are you complaining about needing more space?
With only 100 bank inventory spaces possible, UI options to sort through gear aren't needed. If the devs ever make it possible to obtain 1000 bank inventory spaces, then it's a must have. Putting dev time into bank UI before extra bank spaces are available = WOMBAT: Waste of Money, Brains and Time from a player's perspective.

Also, telling players "hopefully" about adding more bank space is just as bad as putting "probably fixed" in release notes.

[Pandjed]

With only 100 bank inventory spaces possible, UI options to sort through gear aren't needed. If the devs ever make it possible to obtain 1000 bank inventory spaces, then it's a must have. Putting dev time into bank UI before extra bank spaces are available = WOMBAT: Waste of Money, Brains and Time from a player's perspective.

So you would add another story to a building, not considering if it can hold it or not? You know, there is an order to things. First the peanut butter, then the jelly (https://insanelygoodrecipes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Homemade-Peanut-Butter-and-Jelly-Sandwich.png), unless you want it messy. Get a system which actually is able to allow more store spaces and get it stable and player-proof, before adding more to it.

I mean, maybe you're just ignorant about how bad the current system is engineering-wise and how the devs just couldn't squeeze any more space out of it the last few years, or how mirrors of glamering really work, or how the like. Nobody expects that most people understand that, but maybe a more humble attitude and some benefit of the doubt may be in order.

[dogsoldier]

There is no excuse for reworking character bank without adding more space now. Blaming the lack of space on existing infrastructure constraints is childish, and even if there were any merit to that theory, now seems like a good time to add more.

[GramercyRiff]

Nothing short of every item in your inventory across your entire account is in a nice big pool that you can sort and search and insert/retrieve in various ways is an utter waste of time and money. Not surprised this bank change isn't anything that matters. The game needs a drastic new direction in development.

[Sqrlmonger]

So you would add another story to a building, not considering if it can hold it or not? You know, there is an order to things. First the peanut butter, then the jelly (https://insanelygoodrecipes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Homemade-Peanut-Butter-and-Jelly-Sandwich.png), unless you want it messy. Get a system which actually is able to allow more store spaces and get it stable and player-proof, before adding more to it.

I mean, maybe you're just ignorant about how bad the current system is engineering-wise and how the devs just couldn't squeeze any more space out of it the last few years, or how mirrors of glamering really work, or how the like. Nobody expects that most people understand that, but maybe a more humble attitude and some benefit of the doubt may be in order.

The premise of this new system is that it enables support for more storage. See the producer's letter from February.

Besides, if it didn't, why implement it at all given that this is the primary reason people wanted bank changes (for extra space)?

I get the point you're trying to make, but if they haven't mocked the system up and tested it prior to the effort required to implement it fully then I really don't know what to say other then that it would seem like a poor choice to me.

To use your analogy, if I had a completely new system for building skyscrapers, I wouldn't start by building one in downtown Manhattan. I would start with a test involving the bare-bones on a handful of floors with a test apparatus simulating the the system at load. This test system would be a central part of my development process to begin with and I wouldn't build a floor, move people into it, and wait a month to see how it worked out before adding more floors month by month.

Thankfully, nobody dies if the DDO bank system falls down. But the design principles are the same.

[mikarddo]

Nothing short of every item in your inventory across your entire account is in a nice big pool that you can sort and search and insert/retrieve in various ways is an utter waste of time and money. Not surprised this bank change isn't anything that matters. The game needs a drastic new direction in development.

Exactly, the character bank is a dead end, not a solution.

[aoeusnth]

So filtering and sorting has now been added to the character bank and reincarnation cache, but not the crafting storage. Could we get it added for the crafting storage? It especially needs it considering the thousands of items it can have.

[ahpook]

With only 100 bank inventory spaces possible, UI options to sort through gear aren't needed.
So all players posting threads complaining about not being able to sort or search the reincarnation cache were wrong? I think even at 100 items some filtering is very helpful.

But it also needs to work on much larger bank sizes and for that reason the bank size maximum should be greatly increased so people can test if this ui holds up.

[nicklesmack]

So filtering and sorting has now been added to the character bank and reincarnation cache, but not the crafting storage. Could we get it added for the crafting storage? It especially needs it considering the thousands of items it can have.


If crafting storage gets looked at....can we look at filigree stack sizes...4 or 5 is too small.

I really like the searchable function on the TR and shared bank so far!

[carsonfball]

So all players posting threads complaining about not being able to sort or search the reincarnation cache were wrong? I think even at 100 items some filtering is very helpful.

Right? This definitely helps me. I have to spend 15 minutes each life trying to find all of the items that I normally pull out (Jibbers, bags, the cosmetic set that I always wear, hireling folder, etc.). If I could just search for those things instead of scrolling through the list 7 times because I miss some of them each pass, it would definitely be an improvement. I welcome these changes even if no extra shared storage (or making more items BTA) are being added at this time.

[ahpook]

If crafting storage gets looked at....can we look at filigree stack sizes...4 or 5 is too small.

I really like the searchable function on the TR and shared bank so far!
I would like everything in crafting storage to get the same stacking size. All the Sharn stuff only stacking to 100 and creating multiple stacks is ridiculous.

[Sqrlmonger]

So all players posting threads complaining about not being able to sort or search the reincarnation cache were wrong? I think even at 100 items some filtering is very helpful.

But it also needs to work on much larger bank sizes and for that reason the bank size maximum should be greatly increased so people can test if this ui holds up.

Well, yes and also no.

What do I mean? Bank space isn't randomized like the TR cache, it's determined by how you place things and so already has some capability to be actively managed.

So yes, 100 spaces with manual sorting is fairly workable. While 100 spaces with a 1-shot random sorting is simply not.

Regardless, your point that the new features for sorting and management of bank inventory are helpful is still correct. The issue I and others have is that it doesn't address the #1 storage complaint which is simply that we do not have anything even remotely close to enough storage.

That is to say, we do not have enough bank storage by an order of magnitude. This is what is concerning to me about this rollout where they are saying they plan to offer more storage later. It implies they intend to continue selling it 20 slots at a time at the same old price or they would be crowing about the expansion of available space coming to a bank near you in the future.

Put simply, the current paradigm is woefully insufficient. The current bank capacity was designed back when the # of items in the game probably 50x less, if not substantially more. Thankfully, that expansion has obsoleted some of those items along the way or things would be much worse. Regardless, we still need existing bank storage to be quadrupled at an absolute bare minimum and we need more bank space for purchase on top of that even still while also still requiring the use of mules.

edit: Oh and to reply to your comment above about shared bank. I completely agree with that. Shared bank stack sizes should normalize like an ingredient bag does. I would even happily pay for upgrades to expand it to 10k or more.

[JOTMON]

These changes while useful fall short of real account inventory management.
We will still have to utilize mules and other storage mediums to hold items... bank space, inventory space, bags, tr caches, crafting storage, guild chests, etc...

I would ideally want a place to centralize goods across my account and eliminate 40+ mule storage toons (up to 281 slots/toon including worn items)..
That's over 10,000 potentially available slots spread across mules without getting into the assortments of several Colossal, gargantuan,etc bags used to hold stuff that takes up too much space anywhere else.

A storage vault that holds THOUSANDS of items with a filtering tool like the Auction house interface to filter based on my selection criteria.
Give me an option to burn alt character storage slots and convert them into the account based centralized storage vault spaces.
a place to empty all my bags and pool everything I may want to use across my account into 1 place.
This way all my account shareable items are consolidated into one place that can be filter searched... instead of squirreled away into every nook and cranny I can think up.

[Sqrlmonger]

... instead of squirreled away into every nook and cranny I can think up.

https://i.imgur.com/nH17d55.png

[PaddyMaxson]

In this particular case I'm pretty willing to give the devs the benefit of the doubt that more space will be coming and that the real drawback has been a combination of the background code and the UI panels not necessarily supporting showing more tabs/longer lists etc.

I find it hard to believe they wouldn't want to sell more shared bank space if they had the capacity to, considering how many DDO points 10 more slots is priced at.

Sure would be nice if when they give us more they double the space everyone already has available in the shared bank and half the cost of buying more, considering even 10 slots for half the current price is laughably high.

[ahpook]

In this particular case I'm pretty willing to give the devs the benefit of the doubt that more space will be coming and that the real drawback has been a combination of the background code and the UI panels not necessarily supporting showing more tabs/longer lists etc.

I agree with that except that I don't give them the benefit of the doubt that the capacity that they are thinking and that the capacity that some people desire are in alignment. I also do not give them the benefit of the doubt that the UI will scale to those numbers. So they should let us know how much extra space they anticipate and for Lamannia they should give us that capacity so we can review the UI with that limit. Let someone get every item from the loot guy and stuff it into the bank.

[Gatlinbow]

Last time SSG tried to Pagulate the bank the community responded just as they are now. All up in arns because you want to take away what they know and are used to. To show us your new and improved system.

But currently, it's not. It's different but not improved. For years I've waited for this to come back around. And here it is, and you're repeating the same mistake. Increase the space. Give em a free 10-20 slot upgrade for being patient with you this far. The game needs this system I don't want to see it disappear again because you didn't show people just where it was going.