The Hounds are Hunting...

[C-Dog]

<voice over>

It's in the trees!
It's coming!

A most dangerous game indeed...

I've seen early ~90% of the deaths from various "Fey Hunt Hounds" -


Fey Brilliant Hunt Hound
Fey Decay Hunt Hound
Fey Fire Hunt Hound
Fey Frost Hunt Hound
Fey Kinetic Hunt Hound


Type: Magical Beast (https://ddowiki.com/page/Magical_Beast_type)
Race: Wolf (https://ddowiki.com/page/Wolf_race)

In starting Heroics, the Hounds give a debuff to all(?) party members, "+20% elemental damage, stacks up to 20x". However, starting with quest-level-equalent 7 quests (Lvl 5 on Elite/Reaper, Level 7 on Normal, etc), this changes to a stacking Damage-Over-Time effect, which (under some circumstances) can quickly add up to absurd DPS totals.


Something is indeed hunting the hunters.

[C-Dog]

(I'll try to gather all reported info into this post and the mirror Wiki article (https://ddowiki.com/page/Fey_Hunt_Hound)...)

Reported behavior:

Hounds can appear in both quests and wilds, including the Solo quests in The Harbor, starting at Level 1. It seems there is a timer (~5 minutes?) before the first appears. starting when the first party member enters the quest/wilderness.

There is a "howl" that all can hear that announces their imminent arrival. Some short time later (observed as short as ~5 seconds before the Hound appears, but perhaps occasionally also much longer?) a random(?)* party member becomes "hunted". For a second or three there is a blue arrow pointing down at the target, and they receives a debuff "Target of the Hunt", visible in their de/buff bar at the top of the screen.


(* Several times, the "last" party member was observed to be targeted, someone who had fallen behind the main group or had entered late - but it's not clear if that was a factor in the target selection.

* It has been observed that a "lowest level" party member gets targeted. If an NPC is lower level, it can be attacked after a player is initially the target, but NPC's are not the initial target of a Hound. This behavior has not been completely analyzed.)

In any quest* or Wilderness, Hounds spawn up out of the ground, and "on the trail" of their target, i.e. where that character has recently been (or where they currently are if they have stopped long enough at the wrong time) before beginning the chase. This can include spawning in water (tho' it's not been reported that they attack in water). They can "wait" (for an unknown time, but at least a minute) outside a Wilderness quest entrance after targeted party members have entered.


(* This includes previously "non-combat" quests such as Baudry 1 & 2, etc. It appears nowhere is safe.)

Hunting Hounds are strong and tough, but they are not particularly fast - they can be kited fairly easily (observed w/ standard +25% run boost from Anger's Step (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Anger%27s_Step)). However, they will teleport to their target if it is "too far" away, similar to some Reapers. (Note - when they do t-port, there is a short "pause" before they become active again, allowing the target to gain some small distance on the 'Hound before it attacks/chases again.)

It's very possible to have Champion Hounds (https://ddowiki.com/page/Monster_Champion), which only makes them worse (red named cannot be crowd-controled, etc.) Unlike normal monster champions, this starts in Level 1 quests. Champ Hounds can drop rems (rem chests have not (yet?) been reported).

It's possible to pull the aggro off the original target.

Any party member can receive an appropriate "elemental" debuff, one or more stacks of ''X Vulnerability, +20% damage'' - and it stacks 20x!

Estimated cooldown between hunts ~5-10 minutes (unconfirmed). Finishing a quest does not stop this timer. It's 100% confirmed that Hounds can spawn after a quest is finished - do not dawdle at the end chest - get your loot and get out!

(more info as it comes in... :cool:)



Suggested Tactics:

1) Stay with the herd - er, stay with the group! Strength in numbers. Do not zerg ahead, and definitely do not fall behind or go off on your own!

2) Keep your head on a swivel - keep looking behind the group, anywhere you've been, especially right after you hear The Howl.

3) Apparently(?), these things do not scale with party size - do not solo, try to quest only with a (nearly) full party.

4) Treat the hound as a dangerous Champion or Reaper - kill it first!

5) If you hear a howl, let the party know. If you are Hunted, let the party know!

6) If you observe party members who do not "help" Hunted members - it's your call what action to take, but consider your options. :cool:

7) If your build starts off weak at Level 1 (or you just want to get stronger before risking hounds), you can do the quick Solo quests in The Harbor. If you dawdle, a Hound can spawn in those Solo quests, but if you do the quest efficiently it seems you're out before that can trigger. You can easily get Level 2 this way (with just a little repetition), and it's possible to get 3 (with a lot more).

8) The Hunt timer keeps ticking after a quest is finished. Get your loot and get out!

Good luck!

[Mindos]

(Advice): [Titus] seems like SSG have gone out of their way to ensure everyone doesn't make it this time

I wanted the hounds to be "chat bugs" bubbles floating around. :)

[Jerevth]

You'll hear a howl and get a blue arrow over your toon. That fades in a second but you have an icon in the debuff bar indicating that you are being tracked by the Hunt.

I've been hit three times, survived all three attempts, but I noticed that they will always appear on your trail (Where you've been) and they appear around twenty to thirty seconds (Guessing) after you get the howl/notice.

They apparently hunt anyone level 1 and up; no safe levels, and they will find you in quest and in wildernesses.

I felt like there was a ten minute interval between attacks, but I was solely in the Borderlands prepping a horse, gear and enhancements.

Each hound applies a debuff based on its type- Brilliant applies electricity vulnerability, for instance.

May the odds be in your favor.

[Mindos]

You'll hear a howl and get a blue arrow over your toon. That fades in a second but you have an icon in the debuff bar indicating that you are being tracked by the Hunt.

Does this debuff bar icon show if you have "hide permanent buffs" checked?

[Jerevth]

Not sure, I had to log off and adult.
I did have "hide guild buffs" selected, though, and it still showed.

Side note: Surviving a hound attack gets you nothing more than the ability to keep playing the toon. (No xp, no treasure)

[fatherpirate]

some drop remies

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

These hounds have already killed dozens of players and the server just opened.

Many many people are complaining that they are way too powerful, being stronger than reapers,
and appearing in normal zones and slayer wilderness zones, killing people before they even had a chance to run.

Now I'm all for new mechanics, but this seems a bit strong to have reaper powered mobs killing players on normal and in slayer zones

There will be a minority voice that says 'its hardcore, good' but I disagree - many people come here and are new to the game or the event and many get frustrated by this sort of overpowered early death - SSG nerfed all the low level traps because they used to be instakill for the same reason - people don't even know they need to run and they're dead to these things.

Certainly different if you're in an elite or reaper quest - but on normal? In a slayer zone? On korthos? seems like the balancing is not correct and they are too powerful - i mean why not just make reapers spawn in public zones and just signal the end of times?

I mean these hounds are spawning underwater - is that correct?

[Epicsoul]

These hounds have already killed dozens of players and the server just opened.

Many many people are complaining that they are way too powerful, being stronger than reapers,
and appearing in normal zones and slayer wilderness zones, killing people before they even had a chance to run.

Now I'm all for new mechanics, but this seems a bit strong to have reaper powered mobs killing players on normal and in slayer zones

There will be a minority voice that says 'its hardcore, good' but I disagree - many people come here and are new to the game or the event and many get frustrated by this sort of overpowered early death - SSG nerfed all the low level traps because they used to be instakill for the same reason - people don't even know they need to run and they're dead to these things.

Certainly different if you're in an elite or reaper quest - but on normal? In a slayer zone? On korthos? seems like the balancing is not correct and they are too powerful - i mean why not just make reapers spawn in public zones and just signal the end of times?

I can agree to an extent. Removing them from spawning in normal or wilderness zones might be a good solution. But I think they should definitely remain in hard+ content.

[LokiFrost20882]

Certainly different if you're in an elite or reaper quest - but on normal? In a slayer zone? On korthos? seems like the balancing is not correct and they are too powerful - i mean why not just make reapers spawn in public zones and just signal the end of times?

Agreed

(Goldroll + Lokibot, Death Smile', HCL)

[Zuldar]

An important note about the debuffs is that they drop 1 stack at a time, so be vary careful if the mobs in the dungeon do the same damage type as the vulnerability.

[C-Dog]

Many many people are complaining that they are way too powerful, being stronger than reapers,...
...seems like the balancing is not correct and they are too powerful ...
Disagree.

I killed 2 solo, one each as Level 1 and Level 2, with an arti w/ PBS (only) and the Ember repeater. Not a "weak" build, but nothing special.


...killing people before they even had a chance to run.
Not true. I observed one spawning next to one of our party members while we were paused - there was def "time to run" if the player was observant.

What is not allowed is a chance to go afk or stop paying attention. :cool:



but on normal? In a slayer zone? On korthos?...
... There will be a minority voice that says 'its hardcore, good' but I disagree - many people come here and are new to the game or the event and many get frustrated by this sort of overpowered early death
Yes - no easy street, no kiddies' pool, no "perfectly safe" way to level.

We've seen people give the "advice" to simply run Easy/Hard and farm Slayers and limp to 20 for that reward - very doable (previously). But now, even that is "Hard Core", and that's (literally) the name of the game).

And truly "new" players are not funneled to HC - it's a decision they choose to make, and (one would hope, after all the discussion) an informed one.


Bottom line - stay alert, or risk getting dead. Just that simple. :/

[fatherpirate]

Many will complain because it crimps their DOO style.
too bad so sad.

This is not Average Core league
or
Slightly difficult league

This is likely the first REAL

HARDCORE LEAGUE

it is hard ... for good players
really hard if your not good.

maybe players will finally earn the awards this time.

It everyone can do it, it is not hardcore.

I LOVE this one !
YES !
Make it REALLY HARD!

[brian14]

I killed 2 solo, one each as Level 1 and Level 2, with an arti w/ PBS (only) and the Ember repeater. Not a "weak" build, but nothing special.
What is PBS?

[Shaamis]

What is PBS?
Point Blank Shot,

100% absolutely necessary feat for a ranged Arti

[Epicsoul]

Yes - no easy street, no kiddies' pool, no "perfectly safe" way to level.

We've seen people give the "advice" to simply run Easy/Hard and farm Slayers and limp to 20 for that reward - very doable (previously). But now, even that is "Hard Core", and that's (literally) the name of the game).

And truly "new" players are not funneled to HC - it's a decision they choose to make, and (one would hope, after all the discussion) an informed one.


Bottom line - stay alert, or risk getting dead. Just that simple. :/

You've changed my mind. I agree with you.

[Redgob]

TBH, it's completely lame. And not because hounds are difficult, that's fine. +2 levels instead of +4? Fine. The problem is that hounds happen completely randomly. You are playing alone and need to open the door? Answer a phone? Or worse yet, need a bio break? Forget it.

Here are some great marketing ideas for SSG straight from guild chat: "Adult diapers for DDO Points!", "Special promotion for a raid bucket!"

It turned all quests into my most hated ones where I can't take a break for any reason, like OOB or Spinner. And even there in worst case I can use dd and continue later.

Additionally, it killed play styles different to the one and only preferred party play. Solo with a buff bot? Nope. Bot dead after a few hounds. So be happy if you have many friends or a static group, you'll probably hardly notice a difference. The rest of us? Who cares.

Disappointing.

[Amorais]

You have to build your toon to counter them. I think I got lucky with an Aasimar 2HF Pally. I do a fair bit of damage and can LOH myself to cure that damage spike so 3 hounds down so far. Though I did get 50 dmg from one of them in one hit - which seems more than a little over the top for a normal level dungeon - even on HCL.

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

i can report numerous people in game and in discord who have died to the hounds in slayer zones and normal quests are upset and have decided not to participate.

So is that the intention of this event ? to make it so elitist only the 100 on the leaderboard can enjoy it?

I thought, perhaps wrongly, that this was a game wide event open to everyone?

Having reaper strength mobs spawn at level 1 in solo/normal/slayer zones and kill players who are purposefully choosing easy content seems incorrectly balanced, no matter what event or server it is.

And I honestly dont care who disagrees, so save it. I am intending to be rhetorical, not conversational -

this is my 6th event running at 1000+ person guild - i know a lot of players across the spectrum of skill and I can tell you after 5 hours of hounds murdering everyone the consensus is the hound strength presently is tweaked too high

[TartanKane]

i can report numerous people in game and in discord who have died to the hounds in slayer zones and normal quests are upset and have decided not to participate.

So is that the intention of this event ? to make it so elitist only the 100 on the leaderboard can enjoy it?

I thought, perhaps wrongly, that this was a game wide event open to everyone?

Having reaper strength mobs spawn at level 1 in solo/normal/slayer zones and kill players who are purposefully choosing easy content seems incorrectly balanced, no matter what event or server it is.

And I honestly dont care who disagrees, so save it. I am intending to be rhetorical, not conversational -

this is my 6th event running at 1000+ person guild - i know a lot of players across the spectrum of skill and I can tell you after 5 hours of hounds murdering everyone the consensus is the hound strength presently is tweaked too high

I think that it is a good thing that hounds spawn at all difficulties. But those hounds should scale with difficulty level. So a normal hound should be pretty easy to kill. Also, hounds should not be able to attack under water. C'mon.

[Jerevth]

My first toon died after completing the first Korthos Quest (well, after Grotto). Got the hound down to a final few hp and he tripped me. Done. Losf my place in Death Smiles (that HURTS most).

But... I like the challenge, crazy though it is. Adapt. Improvise. Overcome. Or die trying.
I won't try soloing on HE above my paygrade- not even in Korthos, anymore.

And the debuff icon you get when hunted is next to the skull. Should be there no matter what. (Temp or permanent).

[Esperano]

I think that it is a good thing that hounds spawn at all difficulties. But those hounds should scale with difficulty level. So a normal hound should be pretty easy to kill. Also, hounds should not be able to attack under water. C'mon.

Agreed!

I kind of liked the mimics from season 4 lol

[C-Dog]

They can attack underwater? O.O :(


I will say that one thing this does is severely punish soloing/small grouping. (At least until there is evidence that the Hounds scale w/ party size.)

It also means you do NOT want to "dawdle" - no organizing your pack while in a quest standing next to a chest. And, similarly, no "mind if I start?" or "I'll just wait inside" - the Hunt timer is running both before you start and after you finish!


Point Blank Shot,

100% absolutely necessary feat for a ranged Arti
Correct on both points.

I mentioned "(only)" b/c a Human Arti would start w/ both PBS and Rapid Shot, significantly increasing their rate of fire and DPS - I didn't have that.

[Thoggy]

l like the level drop from 4 to 2 and I like the hounds. Adds a lot of spice to HC6, well done.

Even though I almost lost my main on a 'safe' quest to solo when a hound appeared* but was near exit so safely fled.

Just my thoughts. Good luck all!

*Hound appeared within 5 minutes. I was solo, level 1 with no hires, in "Protect Baudry's Interests" doing the hiding tactic near exit when strange blue arrow appeared above my head and a few beats latter a skull doggie! I clicked out before I was attacked. My main is currently "resting" and a very brave farmer character is testing early tactics.

[C-Dog]

Has anyone figured out what, exactly, they are? Race/type?

[Odin_Redbeard]

Just my 2 cents, but after dabbling in the last 4 HCL's i convinced a guildie to try the 5000 favor run. He was convinced that he couldn't do it but i talked him into trying since we would skip reaper and just do the level +4 thing. i made 2 toons to run and the first and only death was in one of the solo quests to a hound. I have no interest in continuing unless my friend wants to, since I talked him into it. I felt hardcore was to hard but thought i would give it a try this time. I did not find it fun and wish the rest of you good luck.

[spifflove]

Just my 2 cents, but after dabbling in the last 4 HCL's i convinced a guildie to try the 5000 favor run. He was convinced that he couldn't do it but i talked him into trying since we would skip reaper and just do the level +4 thing. i made 2 toons to run and the first and only death was in one of the solo quests to a hound. I have no interest in continuing unless my friend wants to, since I talked him into it. I felt hardcore was to hard but thought i would give it a try this time. I did not find it fun and wish the rest of you good luck.

Hopefully the devs will see the wisdom in making korthos and the solo quests safe spaces.

[Amorais]

They can attack underwater? O.O :(



For me, it spawned underwater but couldn't do anything and neither could I, but soon as I hit dry ground it teleported to me. Guess possibly a bug.

[FengXian]

I agree with Mary, especially since nothing has been done to death by lag (?) It's ok to have a hard hardcore league but seems pretty RNG based. And while I love to group, this mechanic really forces you to group I guess. And not just that, but you have to move as party everywhere, if not to protect yourself, to protect your party members.

Seems a big quality of life drop tbh.

[C-Dog]

l*Hound appeared within 5 minutes. I was solo, level 1 with no hires, in "Protect Baudry's Interests" doing the hiding tactic near exit when strange blue arrow appeared above my head and a few beats latter a skull doggie!...
Wow! Gone are the days of going afk to make a sandwich! :cool:

[slarden]

I can agree to an extent. Removing them from spawning in normal or wilderness zones might be a good solution. But I think they should definitely remain in hard+ content.

This seems like a reasonable solution.

I always think there should be a path for casual players - even on hardcore.

[slarden]

Just my 2 cents, but after dabbling in the last 4 HCL's i convinced a guildie to try the 5000 favor run. He was convinced that he couldn't do it but i talked him into trying since we would skip reaper and just do the level +4 thing. i made 2 toons to run and the first and only death was in one of the solo quests to a hound. I have no interest in continuing unless my friend wants to, since I talked him into it. I felt hardcore was to hard but thought i would give it a try this time. I did not find it fun and wish the rest of you good luck.

I got my 5 favor for 50 points on each account and I might be done too. This season isn't going to work with 4 dual boxes piking at the start.

I have a guildy wanting to get wings from 5k favor - might join the group.

[Mindos]

, in "Protect Baudry's Interests" doing the hiding tactic near exit

I wonder if they would come up onto the boxes.

[Sylvado]

(I'll try to gather all reported info into this post...)

Reported behavior:

Hounds can appear in both quests and wilds. They can "wait" (for an unknown time, but at least a minute) outside a Wilderness quest entrance. Hounds spawn up out of the ground. They spawn "on the trail" of their target, i.e. where they have been (or where they currently are if they have stopped long enough at the wrong time).

There is a howl that all can hear. Some time later (tbd, est 20-30 sec?) a random(?)* party member becomes "hunted". For a second or three there is a blue arrow pointing down at the target, and they receives a debuff "Target of the Hunt", visible in their de/buff bar at the top of the screen.

(* Several times, the "last" party member was observed to be targeted, someone who had fallen behind the main group - but it's not clear if that was a factor in the target selection.)

Hunting Hounds are strong and tough, but they are not fast - they can be kited fairly easily (observed w/ standard +25% run boost from Anger's Step (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Anger%27s_Step)). However, they will teleport to their target if it is "too far" away, similar to some Reapers.

It's possible to have Champion Hounds, which only makes them worse. Champ Hounds can drop rems (rem chests have not (yet?) been reported).

It's possible to pull the aggro off the original target.

Any party member can also receive an appropriate "elemental" debuff, stack of ''X Vulnerability, +20% damage'' - and it stacks 20x!

Estimated cooldown between hunts ~10 minutes (unconfirmed).

(more info as it comes in... :cool:)



Suggested Tactics:

1) Stay with the herd - er, stay with the group! Strength in numbers. Do not zerg ahead, and definitely do not fall behind!

2) Keep your head on a swivel - keep looking behind the group, anywhere you've been, especially right after you hear The Howl.

3) Apparently(?), these things do not scale with party size - do not solo, try to quest only with a (nearly) full party.

4) Treat the hound as a dangerous Champion or Reaper - kill it first!

5) If you hear a howl, let the party know. If you are Hunted, let the party know!

6) If you observe party members who do not "help" Hunted members - it's your call what action to take, but consider your options. :cool:

Good luck!

When they teleport there is a pause before they attack so they are easy to stay away from. I have been playing an arti at level 2, Korthos on hard and have faced about a dozen without issue. Having they come up in an end fight would be a different story. I see them as insignificant compared to the +2 cap.

[Sylvado]

These hounds have already killed dozens of players and the server just opened.

Many many people are complaining that they are way too powerful, being stronger than reapers,
and appearing in normal zones and slayer wilderness zones, killing people before they even had a chance to run.

Now I'm all for new mechanics, but this seems a bit strong to have reaper powered mobs killing players on normal and in slayer zones

There will be a minority voice that says 'its hardcore, good' but I disagree - many people come here and are new to the game or the event and many get frustrated by this sort of overpowered early death - SSG nerfed all the low level traps because they used to be instakill for the same reason - people don't even know they need to run and they're dead to these things.

Certainly different if you're in an elite or reaper quest - but on normal? In a slayer zone? On korthos? seems like the balancing is not correct and they are too powerful - i mean why not just make reapers spawn in public zones and just signal the end of times?

I mean these hounds are spawning underwater - is that correct?

Not sure about that, someone posted in chat that they found safety in the water and suggested diving in if attacked.

[Aelonwy]

i can report numerous people in game and in discord who have died to the hounds in slayer zones and normal quests are upset and have decided not to participate.

So is that the intention of this event ? to make it so elitist only the 100 on the leaderboard can enjoy it?

I thought, perhaps wrongly, that this was a game wide event open to everyone?

Having reaper strength mobs spawn at level 1 in solo/normal/slayer zones and kill players who are purposefully choosing easy content seems incorrectly balanced, no matter what event or server it is.

And I honestly dont care who disagrees, so save it. I am intending to be rhetorical, not conversational -

this is my 6th event running at 1000+ person guild - i know a lot of players across the spectrum of skill and I can tell you after 5 hours of hounds murdering everyone the consensus is the hound strength presently is tweaked too high

I agree with Mary, Reaper Strength mobs on normal at level 1? Can't even try to gear up in a newbie wilderness zone before these things are on you. HC is HC because you start with nothing and the level range is limited, and permadeath. Mobs like these in Korthos? Feels like a Bigby's Middle Finger. I haven't died yet so I'm not sour but pardon me for hoping this turns out to be an exceptionally unprofitable HC season so the devs learn not to cater so much to the elite that they exclude the casual player base from even the low tier rewards.

[droid327]

I mentioned "(only)" b/c a Human Arti would start w/ both PBS and Rapid Shot, significantly increasing their rate of fire and DPS - I didn't have that.

Uhh not really...Rapid Shot does almost nothing for Repeaters, which of course is what a low-level Arti would be using. Rapid Reload is the feat for RXB, but that's autogrant for Artis

Human Arti would probably take PBS+Precise Shot to get those sweet sweet Archers Focus stacks, which would be way better DPS than Rapid Shot anyway

[C-Dog]

Rapid Shot does almost nothing for Repeaters...
Yes and no.

It's been shown that, at low levels, Rapid Shot helps noticeably, but that benefit rapidly drops to less and less until, at end-heroics, as you mention it's almost negligible.

So, true, it does almost nothing for repeaters for a build when you look at Level 20 stats, but for early Heroic DPS, it does help. (Some players suggest taking it early, then swapping it out ~level 9-12 for something that will carry on post level 20.)

[C-Dog]

Not sure about that, someone posted in chat that they found safety in the water and suggested diving in if attacked.
I think they'll spawn underwater, not attack. But they could easily t-port to follow their prey once that character gets out of the water.

[balvix]

i can report numerous people in game and in discord who have died to the hounds in slayer zones and normal quests are upset and have decided not to participate.

So is that the intention of this event ? to make it so elitist only the 100 on the leaderboard can enjoy it?

I thought, perhaps wrongly, that this was a game wide event open to everyone?

Having reaper strength mobs spawn at level 1 in solo/normal/slayer zones and kill players who are purposefully choosing easy content seems incorrectly balanced, no matter what event or server it is.

And I honestly dont care who disagrees, so save it. I am intending to be rhetorical, not conversational -

this is my 6th event running at 1000+ person guild - i know a lot of players across the spectrum of skill and I can tell you after 5 hours of hounds murdering everyone the consensus is the hound strength presently is tweaked too high

I agree. With the change in level requirements, and adding in the dogs who seem a little op unless you have a solid group, this seems a little overtuned. Now im not saying that it should be so easy a solo player could just waltz to all the rewards but it should be looked at and possibly adjusted for level (when a toon starts at lvl 1 with 40-60 max hp and a dog is hitting for 40-60+ dmg well that seems a little bit op) and maybe area. That being said, I will still play this season as it is weather there are changes or not. Just my opinion, like it or not.

[ekaterina]

As someone that hates forced grouping - if the dogs that attack soloers are the same strength as the dogs that attack full groups and are a challenge for *them* - I will stop playing HCL.

Not because I want an easy ride to whatever level or favor or reaper points I want - but because a group-strength dog attacking solo players is just cruel.

And if the dogs aren't tuned to the difficulty level of the dungeon - that is wrong too. Might as well just eliminate the casual or normal settings since eventually a dog will get anyone playing at those settings if the dog is at elite or reaper level,

[balvix]

I agree with Mary, Reaper Strength mobs on normal at level 1? Can't even try to gear up in a newbie wilderness zone before these things are on you. HC is HC because you start with nothing and the level range is limited, and permadeath. Mobs like these in Korthos? Feels like a Bigby's Middle Finger. I haven't died yet so I'm not sour but pardon me for hoping this turns out to be an exceptionally unprofitable HC season so the devs learn not to cater so much to the elite that they exclude the casual player base from even the low tier rewards.

I also agree with this, and I'm one of those elite players. 5 seasons completed, all rewards, except for a couple of the 20 reaper point rewards that I didn't want. Only 1 death total in all 5 seasons. Hardcore is supposed to be hardcore, but it doesn't have to be extremely difficult, there can be varying degrees. I think that the dogs shouldn't be able to spawn in norm-hard, and should be relegated to elite+. With something like that it will take much longer and be difficult to earn anything besides the basic lvl 20 reward. The favor reward might be attainable with only doing hard completions but I'm not certain.

[boredGamer]

As someone that hates forced grouping - if the dogs that attack soloers are the same strength as the dogs that attack full groups and are a challenge for *them* - I will stop playing HCL.

Not because I want an easy ride to whatever level or favor or reaper points I want - but because a group-strength dog attacking solo players is just cruel.

And if the dogs aren't tuned to the difficulty level of the dungeon - that is wrong too. Might as well just eliminate the casual or normal settings since eventually a dog will get anyone playing at those settings if the dog is at elite or reaper level,

Meh, been mostly solo up to level 7. Seems fine, play careful. I like the mechanic so far in that it's keeping me edge of seat and thinking about what quests / areas I should even go in at what time.

[voxson5]

Bigby's Middle Finger

sorry but that gave me a good laugh :D

Stay safe for this HC

[Careall]

As someone that hates forced grouping - if the dogs that attack soloers are the same strength as the dogs that attack full groups and are a challenge for *them* - I will stop playing HCL.

Not because I want an easy ride to whatever level or favor or reaper points I want - but because a group-strength dog attacking solo players is just cruel.

And if the dogs aren't tuned to the difficulty level of the dungeon - that is wrong too. Might as well just eliminate the casual or normal settings since eventually a dog will get anyone playing at those settings if the dog is at elite or reaper level,

As I was practicing for this HCL, I really started noticing how much dungeon scaling overly benefited solo players. I even suggested running quests solo so our group could level faster. Obviously, that idea went right out the 10th-floor window and down in flames when the season kicked off. Do I think the scales tipped further towards groups, perhaps even a bit too much? Probably. Do I think that kind of balancing act is easy? No. Did I enjoy the first day of HCL? Heck yeah!

[Hedd]

Anyone debugged what triggers them to spawn yet or who they target? Was in a group, myself the Arti, a Paladin and a Favored soul. Targeted me every time for 2 hours. I thought maybe it was influenced by movement or lack thereof so we loaded into Korthos and stood around with myself doing donuts. Still targeted me. While the trigger is interesting, the fact it always targets one party member is weird.

[C-Dog]

Anyone debugged what triggers them to spawn yet or who they target?
For the time being, I'm assuming the trigger is a simple timer. If you get through the quest quickly (quite possible in any of the shorter Korthos quests), you beat the timer to the first one.

As for targeting, I've observed that more often than not it targets players "away from the herd" - off alone, one way or another. That may be a complete misinterpretation of exactly what's going on, but it's enough to make me want to stick to the group.

[Careall]

My best guess so far (and it's still not a good guess) is that each dungeon has a timer and the hounds will appear semi-randomly based on how long the timer has been running. Like, maybe there's a base 10% chance when you step in, and a check is made. If nothing spawns, then one minute later, the chance increases by 2% or whatever, and another check is made; these checks continue until a spawn happens or until everyone leaves the dungeon. If a spawn happens, it chooses the target randomly or maybe via some hidden factor. It does seem that the same toon gets hunted multiple times in a row, too often to be pure chance. However, I've heard folks talk about how bad DDO's RNG is, so maybe that would explain a few things?

While stepping into a quest, one of our members got a hound in the wilderness area outside, and another member got a hound just after stepping inside. It was not the same toon and not the same hound. Generally, I've noticed the hounds seem to attack less when the party is engaged in combat. I thought that might be a clue; perhaps not fighting increases the chance of a hound appearing. However, we did have a few hounds appear during combat, but it would be difficult to determine how engaged all party members were in combat.

We tried testing inactivity, which didn't seem to make a difference.

We tried rushing quests, which seemed to spawn hounds when we were Finishing Out more often.

The best strategy seems to be to communicate who has the mark and have them move to an open area with the party around them. The hound will spawn in, and the target, or whoever grabs aggro, kites the hound while everyone else DPS's the heck out of the hound. Killing hounds quickly is critical, so sticking together is important.

100% fortification seems to be really important since hounds seem to crit a lot.

When you get the debuff, don't head into the next fight. Wait for it to go away, or at least down to a level you can accept. We didn't test it (not on HCL we won't), but we're pretty sure that vulnerability debuff doesn't only apply to damage done by the hound.

Resist Energy is critical: The hound's energy type debuff is applied to the same calculation as energy absorption, which means it gets calculated after energy damage reduction. Let's say you have 20 Electric Resistance, 20 Electric Absorption, and get 11 stacks of Electric Vulnerability from the debuff. Then you get hit with Electric Damage for 25 points. 20 points are reduced, and 5 points get through. You have 200% vulnerability, meaning you would take 3x damage for a total of 15 points. If you didn't have Electric Resistance, you would take 25 x 3 for 75 damage.

I expect MRR is deducted from the Vulnerability - Absorption calculation instead of applied separately. For the above example, if you have 25 MRR for a 20% reduction, your total Vulnerability would be 180%. I don't think MRR is calculated separately, but I don't know.

Once your toon gets to a level where you're not really willing to risk starting over, consider getting a teleport wand (teleport spell or Word of Recall will work, too) and putting it on a hotkey for a quick escape. If you do use a spell, consider the Quicken Metamagic feat for a no-fail quick escape.

[Yavool]

I think if it was possible to switch the hounds from red named to orange named in a hotfix that came out within the next day or two, everything else about them would be fine in all instances.

This would allow theorycrafting of effective builds that can CC the mobs before they stack their 400% bonus damage upon the one they are hunting.

This would allow solo player/lone wolves (like me) to have a fighting chance against the hounds without having to immediately finish out from a quest and begin again each time the player is hound tagged.

In short, it would allow the majority of players to actually play the vigi game beyond level 7 (or level 2, as most deaths seem to be) and not label Hardcore Season 6 as "The Season of Hardcore Perpetual Character Creation."

-yav

[Belegdur]

The party had just finished the end of The Collaborator in Korthos and while waiting to exit, a hound appeared. If there was a warning, it was lost in the end fights.
Some party members weren't even in the dungeon when it targeted another player, my finish out interrupted I hit it 3 times, got 4 debuffs and damage in return and the 2 two of us died. There was no room to run, kite, or range.
And brand new toons in the 4th quest are not geared.

Tweaked way too high especially so early.

[C-Dog]

While stepping into a quest, one of our members got a hound in the wilderness area outside, and another member got a hound just after stepping inside. It was not the same toon and not the same hound.
I believe the timer starts with the first person to step in, so it's quite possible that a later party member can step in just as a Hound spawns, and they draw the short stick.

@ all - Has anyone observed a spawn shortly (maybe 30 sec or less?) after the first person steps into a quest/wilderness?

[Epicsoul]

I agree with Mary, Reaper Strength mobs on normal at level 1? Can't even try to gear up in a newbie wilderness zone before these things are on you. HC is HC because you start with nothing and the level range is limited, and permadeath. Mobs like these in Korthos? Feels like a Bigby's Middle Finger. I haven't died yet so I'm not sour but pardon me for hoping this turns out to be an exceptionally unprofitable HC season so the devs learn not to cater so much to the elite that they exclude the casual player base from even the low tier rewards.

I couldn't disagree more. HC shouldn't be static and boring from season to season. Saying "its always been this way" is more reason to change it up. Moreover, HC can be whatever the devs want HC to be. We had one season where you could die three times and be fine, so I think it's perfectly fair one season is catered to elite players or at least encourage grouping and not solo'ing.

The entire game is catered to casuals. Can we not complain anytime something actually difficult is introduced in this game?

[slarden]

so I think it's perfectly fair one season is catered to elite players or at least encourage grouping and not solo'ing.

I wouldn't say this season encourages grouping. At least my experience is that if I zerged solo I could avoid the dogs almost entirely (only 1 dog spawned after about 15 quests and that dog never attacked it just stayed yellow and inactive but did debuff me).

If anything I think players that move slower, have some real life distractions from time to time, like to read all the text on npc conversations, spend more time at a chest, like to do the optionals, get lost are going to be less desirable to group with because they attract hounds that the whole party has to deal with (or not deal with and that person will die if they can't solo it).

It's SSG's game and I could care less with what they do to hardcore. If I like it might participate, if I don't I won't - either way I am not going to spend cash on hardcore but will benefit regardless of what they do. I'll earn some quick ddo points and get my freebies and benefit regardless of what they throw at us. If I die it takes a few minutes to reroll and start again and earn those points. No big deal.

If you spent money and died or rolled some daily dice to gain a few levels before realizing the level lockout changed I do empathize with you, but learn from your mistake and don't do that again next season. Understand what you are getting into before spending $ - simple as that.

[Aelonwy]

I couldn't disagree more. HC shouldn't be static and boring from season to season. Saying "its always been this way" is more reason to change it up. Moreover, HC can be whatever the devs want HC to be. We had one season where you could die three times and be fine, so I think it's perfectly fair one season is catered to elite players or at least encourage grouping and not solo'ing.

The entire game is catered to casuals. Can we not complain anytime something actually difficult is introduced in this game?

Let's be clear what we are arguing for and against here. I'm not complaining about the reduced level range, that's changing it up and I'm fine with that increased challenge. I'm not complaining against new champions or mobs specifically, that's changing it up and its increased challenge. I'm complaining that having these new RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs on Korthos before people have ANY gear whatsoever is a slap in the face. I'm complaining that having RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs on normal is spit on the player base. I'm complaining that allowing these RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs to spawn on zone-in of a quest or wilderness zone when the devs know so darn well that their game quality is NOT the best that they have to have legal-excuse jargon up for HC deaths due to lag is almost like them laughing in our face.

Just because the entire game can be run on casual does NOT mean the entire game is catered to casual. Casual gets low xp, low favor, lowest named item chance. Most LFGs are for Reaper now. Elite/Reaper gets best xp or 2 kinds of XP, best favor, best chance at named items and the named items can have extra buffs. Reaper players have their own enhancement trees. There are 10 difficulties to Reaper, that means there are 12 difficulties above normal, and there are randomly buffed champions on all 12 of those difficulties. Oh but tell me again how the game caters to casual? What you seem to be supporting with these RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs in normal is a server so elite its almost REAPER players only. Is the server not open to the whole player base? do they not want money and engagement from as much of the player base as possible? Maybe don't exclude a good portion of the player base in favor of another.

If some people want challenge so darn much how would their elite/reaper only experience of the HC server be affected by people being able to run normal without being one-shot by RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs? HC is about facing the challenges of the game starting from scratch and being prepared, it shouldn't be about secret dev Fingers of Death out to RNG shank you just because they feel like it. Yes the devs can do whatever they want, they could instill a secret roll whenever you log in that could insta-kill you on a 1... but I think its equally fair to complain when their design decisions reduce fun for any portion of the player base. I don't hate challenge, I enjoyed the entire Mimic season. I do prefer to make my own decisions about where and when I want to be challenged and normal and wilderness zones are NOT it. Zoning into a quest or wilderness zone when I have had super long load screens since at least Feywild is NOT it. On Korthos in my very first quest with nothing but Grotto gear and zero fortification whatsoever is NOT it. There's not exactly a lot of ways to prepare for these mobs that don't involve a credit card if they can attack you as soon as you enter your very first quest or wilderness zone on any difficulty.

[slarden]

Let's be clear what we are arguing for and against here. I'm not complaining about the reduced level range, that's changing it up and I'm fine with that increased challenge. I'm not complaining against new champions or mobs specifically, that's changing it up and its increased challenge. I'm complaining that having these new RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs on Korthos before people have ANY gear whatsoever is a slap in the face. I'm complaining that having RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs on normal is spit on the player base. I'm complaining that allowing these RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs to spawn on zone-in of a quest or wilderness zone when the devs know so darn well that their game quality is NOT the best that they have to have legal-excuse jargon up for HC deaths due to lag is almost like them laughing in our face.

Just because the entire game can be run on casual does NOT mean the entire game is catered to casual. Casual gets low xp, low favor, lowest named item chance. Most LFGs are for Reaper now. Elite/Reaper gets best xp or 2 kinds of XP, best favor, best chance at named items and the named items can have extra buffs. Reaper players have their own enhancement trees. There are 10 difficulties to Reaper, that means there are 12 difficulties above normal, and there are randomly buffed champions on all 12 of those difficulties. Oh but tell me again how the game caters to casual? What you seem to be supporting with these RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs in normal is a server so elite its almost REAPER players only. Is the server not open to the whole player base? do they not want money and engagement from as much of the player base as possible? Maybe don't exclude a good portion of the player base in favor of another.

If some people want challenge so darn much how would their elite/reaper only experience of the HC server be affected by people being able to run normal without being one-shot by RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs? HC is about facing the challenges of the game starting from scratch and being prepared, it shouldn't be about secret dev Fingers of Death out to RNG shank you just because they feel like it. Yes the devs can do whatever they want, they could instill a secret roll whenever you log in that could insta-kill you on a 1... but I think its equally fair to complain when their design decisions reduce fun for any portion of the player base. I don't hate challenge, I enjoyed the entire Mimic season. I do prefer to make my own decisions about where and when I want to be challenged and normal and wilderness zones are NOT it. Zoning into a quest or wilderness zone when I have had super long load screens since at least Feywild is NOT it. On Korthos in my very first quest with nothing but Grotto gear and zero fortification whatsoever is NOT it. There's not exactly a lot of ways to prepare for these mobs that don't involve a credit card if they can attack you as soon as you enter your very first quest or wilderness zone on any difficulty.

Well put.

I like the original design of hardcore because the level 20/1750 favor path was relatively easy to obtain. 5000 favor was harder to obtain and reaper rewards were even harder to obtain. So there broad appeal to the community.

It could be they are upping the difficulty for the lower-tier rewards because of people complaining about hardcore - they prefer a lower participation rate. Who knows, but I do think the primary people impacted are people going after the lower-tier rewards.

I don't have a strong opinion on whether this change is good, bad or neutral. As always I assume SSG has better data than I do and that is what is driving the decision.

In general the game strongly caters to and over-rewards the grinder/achiever types. I am always disappointed when I see the casual segment get the short end of the stick. I doubt SSG will comment, but it would be interesting to know if this was intentional or it played out differently than they expected.

For people going for 20 and 1750 favor that are finding these enemies too much, it could be they don't scale as high at higher levels and it get easier. At least for people getting a later start to hardcore, look before you leap regarding store purchases. For people that regret their purchases, look before you leap next season.

Either way you get 50 DDO points for 5 favor - everyone should do that. 50 more points for the next 50 favor and 25 more @ 100 for 125 total - you should strongly consider that to test the waters and then decide to stick with it or return to live.

[Careall]

What you seem to be supporting with these RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs in normal is a server so elite its almost REAPER players only.

This almost feels exactly like what SSG is aiming for, agree with it or not. To be a bit of a jerk, the C in HCL doesn't mean "casual."

That said, I usually cook in a frying pan at around 70%-80%, which is well above the 50% mark. But if I cook at 90%-100%, I'm going to burn the food.
SSG might want to consider that analogy.

[Cyanleaf]

i can report numerous people in game and in discord who have died to the hounds in slayer zones and normal quests are upset and have decided not to participate.

So is that the intention of this event ? to make it so elitist only the 100 on the leaderboard can enjoy it?

I thought, perhaps wrongly, that this was a game wide event open to everyone?

Having reaper strength mobs spawn at level 1 in solo/normal/slayer zones and kill players who are purposefully choosing easy content seems incorrectly balanced, no matter what event or server it is.

And I honestly dont care who disagrees, so save it. I am intending to be rhetorical, not conversational -

this is my 6th event running at 1000+ person guild - i know a lot of players across the spectrum of skill and I can tell you after 5 hours of hounds murdering everyone the consensus is the hound strength presently is tweaked too high

Agreed. Hounds are totally unfair and discouraging. At level 1, I was already felled once by a Hound. Went to -9, and Hire saved me with a well-timed heal. That said, I'm still excited about this new season.
I'd say this is high-adrenaline stuff, but can get exhausting very fast.
My recipe is, join a Guild ASAP (I joined Death Smile - TY Mary!), invest all you can in your equipment and most importantly, find safety in numbers. This is not a Solo-friendly season! Then again, this game was never meant to be played solo.
Also, listen to Mary's tips for Hardcore on Youtube. You'll find good advice there!
Be the Hunter, not the Hunted.

Cheers!

[ekaterina]

Let's be clear what we are arguing for and against here. I'm not complaining about the reduced level range, that's changing it up and I'm fine with that increased challenge. I'm not complaining against new champions or mobs specifically, that's changing it up and its increased challenge. I'm complaining that having these new RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs on Korthos before people have ANY gear whatsoever is a slap in the face. I'm complaining that having RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs on normal is spit on the player base. I'm complaining that allowing these RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs to spawn on zone-in of a quest or wilderness zone when the devs know so darn well that their game quality is NOT the best that they have to have legal-excuse jargon up for HC deaths due to lag is almost like them laughing in our face.

Just because the entire game can be run on casual does NOT mean the entire game is catered to casual. Casual gets low xp, low favor, lowest named item chance. Most LFGs are for Reaper now. Elite/Reaper gets best xp or 2 kinds of XP, best favor, best chance at named items and the named items can have extra buffs. Reaper players have their own enhancement trees. There are 10 difficulties to Reaper, that means there are 12 difficulties above normal, and there are randomly buffed champions on all 12 of those difficulties. Oh but tell me again how the game caters to casual? What you seem to be supporting with these RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs in normal is a server so elite its almost REAPER players only. Is the server not open to the whole player base? do they not want money and engagement from as much of the player base as possible? Maybe don't exclude a good portion of the player base in favor of another.

If some people want challenge so darn much how would their elite/reaper only experience of the HC server be affected by people being able to run normal without being one-shot by RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs? HC is about facing the challenges of the game starting from scratch and being prepared, it shouldn't be about secret dev Fingers of Death out to RNG shank you just because they feel like it. Yes the devs can do whatever they want, they could instill a secret roll whenever you log in that could insta-kill you on a 1... but I think its equally fair to complain when their design decisions reduce fun for any portion of the player base. I don't hate challenge, I enjoyed the entire Mimic season. I do prefer to make my own decisions about where and when I want to be challenged and normal and wilderness zones are NOT it. Zoning into a quest or wilderness zone when I have had super long load screens since at least Feywild is NOT it. On Korthos in my very first quest with nothing but Grotto gear and zero fortification whatsoever is NOT it. There's not exactly a lot of ways to prepare for these mobs that don't involve a credit card if they can attack you as soon as you enter your very first quest or wilderness zone on any difficulty.

Very well put. I would add that losing a character if the doorbell rings or a kid screams is also unfair - last year we at least might have had time to pull back to a cleared area and hope to handle the interruption with nothing spawning on us.

[Eelpout]

Let's be clear what we are arguing for and against here. I'm not complaining about the reduced level range, that's changing it up and I'm fine with that increased challenge. I'm not complaining against new champions or mobs specifically, that's changing it up and its increased challenge. I'm complaining that having these new RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs on Korthos before people have ANY gear whatsoever is a slap in the face. I'm complaining that having RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs on normal is spit on the player base. I'm complaining that allowing these RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs to spawn on zone-in of a quest or wilderness zone when the devs know so darn well that their game quality is NOT the best that they have to have legal-excuse jargon up for HC deaths due to lag is almost like them laughing in our face.

Just because the entire game can be run on casual does NOT mean the entire game is catered to casual. Casual gets low xp, low favor, lowest named item chance. Most LFGs are for Reaper now. Elite/Reaper gets best xp or 2 kinds of XP, best favor, best chance at named items and the named items can have extra buffs. Reaper players have their own enhancement trees. There are 10 difficulties to Reaper, that means there are 12 difficulties above normal, and there are randomly buffed champions on all 12 of those difficulties. Oh but tell me again how the game caters to casual? What you seem to be supporting with these RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs in normal is a server so elite its almost REAPER players only. Is the server not open to the whole player base? do they not want money and engagement from as much of the player base as possible? Maybe don't exclude a good portion of the player base in favor of another.

If some people want challenge so darn much how would their elite/reaper only experience of the HC server be affected by people being able to run normal without being one-shot by RED NAME, Reaper-like mobs? HC is about facing the challenges of the game starting from scratch and being prepared, it shouldn't be about secret dev Fingers of Death out to RNG shank you just because they feel like it. Yes the devs can do whatever they want, they could instill a secret roll whenever you log in that could insta-kill you on a 1... but I think its equally fair to complain when their design decisions reduce fun for any portion of the player base. I don't hate challenge, I enjoyed the entire Mimic season. I do prefer to make my own decisions about where and when I want to be challenged and normal and wilderness zones are NOT it. Zoning into a quest or wilderness zone when I have had super long load screens since at least Feywild is NOT it. On Korthos in my very first quest with nothing but Grotto gear and zero fortification whatsoever is NOT it. There's not exactly a lot of ways to prepare for these mobs that don't involve a credit card if they can attack you as soon as you enter your very first quest or wilderness zone on any difficulty.

Nice post. I really enjoy HCL. The challenges are already in it. You die, you lose. The rewards are even gated specifically to the challenge a player wants to take on. Level 20 and 1750 favor being the easiest to accomplish all the way up to 10 or 20 Reaper points. I think that is a great system. I like the hounds, I do not like the way they are implemented. I appreciate a good mix up each season. This season is punishing everyone out of the gate. Elite players and casual alike. If you are fine with how it is set, kudos to those who are. I certainly feel like it didn't have to be such a kick to the nuts. I will congratulate the devs on creating a complete sense of terror for me anytime I enter a quest though...

[OzmarDDO]

So far, these strategies seem to work well against hounds:

I run with a group and/or pets and hires. Especially pets and hires. When the hound appears, use bluff/diplomacy to shed aggro and let it kill the NPCs while you attack it.

Blood Tribute is so helpful. Kept me alive while taking down the hound.

Ranged kiting might also work.

Everyone stop and focus on the hound. DPS to take him down. Avoid taking aggro if at all possible.

-Ozmar the Hunted

[RavenStormclaw]

I have run a few quests solo with hirelings. A few things I was able to observe:

1: Hirelings can be targets of the hunt.
proof: was running retrieve the stolen goods and had a hound but no blue arrows so I thought I missed it. 3-4 minutes later had a second hound and I was the target. fairly sure at that point I didn't miss it. Hirelings can be targets.

2: Not sure what they are yet but at character level 4 elite quest level 2 hounds have around 200 HP. this is based on my max empowered searing light hitting for roughly 150-180 hp and taking the hound bar down to roughly 20% left.

3: Having a caster who can do a ton of spike damage is helpful. You can target them when the first spawn in and get a solid hit in before they even move or attack. that is how I have killed 4 of then with my little hireling group. When the hound only has 20 percent health left when it can finally act it is a lot easier to kill.

Hope this helps keep you alive.

[Amorais]

Problem with putting these random gotcha mobs in every difficulty is the fact the rewards for casual players are far lower but the risk is almost as high. I generally dont have time to do the whole reaper 5000 favour thing so have to stick with the mundane cloak and maybe the cape if I'm lucky or have a bit of time off. Surviving 1-20 solo, even on normal, seems like close to the same challenge as doing everything on elite with a full group. Solo you get zero support, zero second chances and one single mistake and thats it. Yet all I got was this crappy half-cloak :x

That said, I also think what's done is done and nerfing the hounds now would be a mistake. Just have to run with it I guess.

[DAVIDARC]

some drop remies



remies?

[boredGamer]

Problem with putting these random gotcha mobs in every difficulty is the fact the rewards for casual players are far lower but the risk is almost as high. I generally dont have time to do the whole reaper 5000 favour thing so have to stick with the mundane cloak and maybe the cape if I'm lucky or have a bit of time off. Surviving 1-20 solo, even on normal, seems like close to the same challenge as doing everything on elite with a full group. Solo you get zero support, zero second chances and one single mistake and thats it. Yet all I got was this crappy half-cloak :x

That said, I also think what's done is done and nerfing the hounds now would be a mistake. Just have to run with it I guess.

I think all of this forumming will age poorly.

They’re not hard to deal with once you get over The initial panic. Also normal is far easier than elite, still .

I soloed level 2-7 yesterday- I joined a borderlands slayer group to get started.

As per usual , plan and think and play well, it seems just as do able as previous seasons. It’s the same gnashing of teeth as champ season or mimic season. Adjust and play.

And as amazing as I am, yeah I avoid level 1 quests on elite when I’m level 1 or 2. Why would I join them before I’m level 3 with all my ap ? Play smart, it’s hardcore.

Edit: what I love about this mechanic is it makes you think about every ROOM you go in. What if a hound comes ? What will I do during this fight if it does ? Going into any fight without thinking it through could be death. Love that.

[cdbd3rd]

(I'll try to gather all reported info int....

THANK YOU!

I have hunted (get it?) through thread after thread looking for what these hounds are and do.

(Gotta spread my self around...)


No solo + no afk = no HCL. *shrug* IIWII.

[C-Dog]

Also normal is far easier than elite, still.
(To be clear) - you've observed that they are scaling with quest difficulty?


1: Hirelings can be targets of the hunt.
proof: was running retrieve the stolen goods and had a hound but no blue arrows so I thought I missed it. 3-4 minutes later had a second hound and I was the target. fairly sure at that point I didn't miss it. Hirelings can be targets.
Okay, I'm not seeing how this shows that the Hireling was the target.

If they got the blue arrow, if they got attacked first - then sure. A high DPS Hireling could easily steal aggro. But not seeing the arrow... could be several explanations.

Anyone else have an experience w/ a hireling and being hunted?

[RavenStormclaw]

(To be clear) - you've observed that they are scaling with quest difficulty?


Okay, I'm not seeing how this shows that the Hireling was the target.

If they got the blue arrow, if they got attacked first - then sure. A high DPS Hireling could easily steal aggro. But not seeing the arrow... could be several explanations.

Anyone else have an experience w/ a hireling and being hunted?
hunts w
The hound did indeed go after my cleric hireling first. I rechecked everything just to make sure. I am definitely positive it went after my hireling. Time between them was to short for me to be hunted twice. it was less than 5 minutes.

[Amorais]

remies?

Mysterious Remnants

[Aelonwy]

This almost feels exactly like what SSG is aiming for, agree with it or not. To be a bit of a jerk, the C in HCL doesn't mean "casual."

That said, I usually cook in a frying pan at around 70%-80%, which is well above the 50% mark. But if I cook at 90%-100%, I'm going to burn the food.
SSG might want to consider that analogy.

Its Hardcore League not Hardcore Reaper ONLY, which is what it feels like when Reaper-like mobs get shoe-horned into normal difficulty.

[tsotate]

Its Hardcore League not Hardcore Reaper ONLY, which is what it feels like when Reaper-like mobs get shoe-horned into normal difficulty.
This. The whole point of having different tiers of reward is that there should be different tiers of challenge. Having dog-shaped Doom Reapers in every quest and wilderness means that that's no longer the case.

[Jynxxx]

Has anyone figured out what, exactly, they are? Race/type?

Magical Beast - Animal

[C-Dog]

Magical Beast - Animal
Confirmed - trapped one in Baudry 1, had time to /examine.


Type: Magical Beast
Race: Wolf

[Elmunsin]

Hearsay say they are 4 levels higher than the highest party member

[cdbd3rd]

If you go Incap, the Hound just sits and stares at you until you stand back up.

I had a stand-off with one at 2nd level where he hit me and I Incapped. (Max Con + Addy toaster so auto-stabilized.) I'd stand back up, he'd knock me back down. Seems Incap lasted just long enough to drop the debuff. About 4-5 rounds later he critted me for the kill.


-------

I have heard there's a 5-minute window before any Hound will spawn in a quest. Not willing to voluntarily die to test this myself. So is this Truth or Myth?

[Phoenicis]

If you go Incap, the Hound just sits and stares at you until you stand back up.


I can verify this, lvl 5 barb in Borderlands wilderness hunting feather for mounts. Parked next to a chest and went AFK (I knew better but did it anyway) so my wife could find the chest (we went separate directions (another nono, but hounds there are CR3 and meh)) he'd knock me to -10, I'd auto stabilize and get back up with 20 or so HP and he'd knock me back to -10. I finally managed to get a blood tribute off and beat him up.


I have heard there's a 5-minute window before any Hound will spawn in a quest. Not willing to voluntarily die to test this myself. So is this Truth or Myth?

This does not seem to be accurate, I've seen a hound less than 3 min (there was 2:05 left in the quest when we saw our first hound of the game. we both died) into Beraudry 1.

[Vespero]

I got my bloody footprints. It wasn't easy. We had close calls. At the end of the favor run, of our dedicated group, only 3 of us were still alive and going for the last 500 or so favor. Now the questing lv cap has been lowered, AND these hounds...I can't even take a bio break? Come on.
Im not the most uber player, but I have played FOREVER. Since launch pretty much. I used to play on Xoriat server. I still call "Stopping the Sahuaghin" > "The Low Road"
I do know what I am doing, but I'm not sure I want to slog through this season just to get bent over by the end of it. Was someone complaining it was too easy to get 5k favor? I don't see how it was.

[Vordax]

Hearsay say they are 4 levels higher than the highest party member

Hearsay is incorrect


https://i.postimg.cc/HsjkrBNJ/hounds.png

[Mynxxx]

These hounds are crazy - died 3 times at level 1 in first dungeon. In a full party - last time I was not even the target of hound. DONE with Hardcore.

This is NOT how to keep players.

Jelliqal


i can report numerous people in game and in discord who have died to the hounds in slayer zones and normal quests are upset and have decided not to participate.

So is that the intention of this event ? to make it so elitist only the 100 on the leaderboard can enjoy it?

I thought, perhaps wrongly, that this was a game wide event open to everyone?

Having reaper strength mobs spawn at level 1 in solo/normal/slayer zones and kill players who are purposefully choosing easy content seems incorrectly balanced, no matter what event or server it is.

And I honestly dont care who disagrees, so save it. I am intending to be rhetorical, not conversational -

this is my 6th event running at 1000+ person guild - i know a lot of players across the spectrum of skill and I can tell you after 5 hours of hounds murdering everyone the consensus is the hound strength presently is tweaked too high

[Ryiah]

Solo you get zero support

I have encountered two hounds. One I was specifically trying to get to spawn in Cerulean Hills to see how fast and how hard hitting it was, and one
randomly in the Borderlands wilderness. For the first one I barely kept ahead of it with Expeditious Retreat scrolls but it also was barely hitting hard
at all and CLW potions kept me alive till I could reach the exit. Second one was killed in just two hits by the hireling Frenzy.

I'm not a fan of the hounds. I was much more a fan of the mimics because they gave you a good choice. If you risked death you would get better
gear but if you didn't you ran the possibility of not having the gear you needed later in your playthrough.

[cdbd3rd]

Re: My 5-minute window question.


...
This does not seem to be accurate, I've seen a hound less than 3 min (there was 2:05 left in the quest when we saw our first hound of the game. we both died) into Beraudry 1.

Duly noted. Ty.

[FengXian]

I got my bloody footprints. It wasn't easy. We had close calls. At the end of the favor run, of our dedicated group, only 3 of us were still alive and going for the last 500 or so favor. Now the questing lv cap has been lowered, AND these hounds...I can't even take a bio break? Come on.
Im not the most uber player, but I have played FOREVER. Since launch pretty much. I used to play on Xoriat server. I still call "Stopping the Sahuaghin" > "The Low Road"
I do know what I am doing, but I'm not sure I want to slog through this season just to get bent over by the end of it. Was someone complaining it was too easy to get 5k favor? I don't see how it was.

I can relate. And I'm pretty sure that people dying here after a decent time investment won't be coming back with a new toon. This season might really be cutting off a pretty big chunk of the HCL playerbase.

Which means only static groups will be around at higher levels, so even the careful planning players that make it won't be able to pug at that point.

The more I look into this the more failed a design it seems. Fix it before it's too late.

[Kaldair_Returns]

These hounds have already killed dozens of players and the server just opened.

Many many people are complaining that they are way too powerful, being stronger than reapers,
and appearing in normal zones and slayer wilderness zones, killing people before they even had a chance to run.

Now I'm all for new mechanics, but this seems a bit strong to have reaper powered mobs killing players on normal and in slayer zones

There will be a minority voice that says 'its hardcore, good' but I disagree - many people come here and are new to the game or the event and many get frustrated by this sort of overpowered early death - SSG nerfed all the low level traps because they used to be instakill for the same reason - people don't even know they need to run and they're dead to these things.

Certainly different if you're in an elite or reaper quest - but on normal? In a slayer zone? On korthos? seems like the balancing is not correct and they are too powerful - i mean why not just make reapers spawn in public zones and just signal the end of times?

I mean these hounds are spawning underwater - is that correct?

If there was ever a voice to listen to SSG, it would be this one.

I'd be happy if the bugs were fixed for now - no one, and I mean no one, likes unfair deaths. Untargetable mobs - just no. Especially reaper clones. Especially HCL. I mean please ...

[Kaldair_Returns]

(I'll try to gather all reported info into this post and the mirror Wiki article (https://ddowiki.com/page/Fey_Hunt_Hound)...)

Reported behavior:

Hounds can appear in both quests and wilds, including the Solo quests in The Harbor, starting at Level 1. It seems there is a timer (~5 minutes?) before the first appears. starting when the first party member enters the quest/wilderness.

There is a "howl" that all can hear that announces their imminent arrival. Some short time later (observed as short as ~5 seconds before the Hound appears, but perhaps occasionally also much longer?) a random(?)* party member becomes "hunted". For a second or three there is a blue arrow pointing down at the target, and they receives a debuff "Target of the Hunt", visible in their de/buff bar at the top of the screen.


(* Several times, the "last" party member was observed to be targeted, someone who had fallen behind the main group or had entered late - but it's not clear if that was a factor in the target selection.)

In any quest* or Wilderness, Hounds spawn up out of the ground, and "on the trail" of their target, i.e. where that character has recently been (or where they currently are if they have stopped long enough at the wrong time) before beginning the chase. This can include spawning in water (tho' it's not been reported that they attack in water). They can "wait" (for an unknown time, but at least a minute) outside a Wilderness quest entrance after targeted party members have entered.


(* This includes previously "non-combat" quests such as Baudry 1 & 2, etc. It appears nowhere is safe.)

Hunting Hounds are strong and tough, but they are not particularly fast - they can be kited fairly easily (observed w/ standard +25% run boost from Anger's Step (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Anger%27s_Step)). However, they will teleport to their target if it is "too far" away, similar to some Reapers. (Note - when they do t-port, there is a short "pause" before they become active again, allowing the target to gain some small distance on the 'Hound before it attacks/chases again.)

It's very possible to have Champion Hounds (https://ddowiki.com/page/Monster_Champion), which only makes them worse (red named cannot be crowd-controled, etc.) Unlike normal monster champions, this starts in Level 1 quests. Champ Hounds can drop rems (rem chests have not (yet?) been reported).

It's possible to pull the aggro off the original target.

Any party member can receive an appropriate "elemental" debuff, one or more stacks of ''X Vulnerability, +20% damage'' - and it stacks 20x!

Estimated cooldown between hunts ~5-10 minutes (unconfirmed). Finishing a quest does not stop this timer. It's 100% confirmed that Hounds can spawn after a quest is finished - do not dawdle at the end chest - get your loot and get out!

(more info as it comes in... :cool:)



Suggested Tactics:

1) Stay with the herd - er, stay with the group! Strength in numbers. Do not zerg ahead, and definitely do not fall behind or go off on your own!

2) Keep your head on a swivel - keep looking behind the group, anywhere you've been, especially right after you hear The Howl.

3) Apparently(?), these things do not scale with party size - do not solo, try to quest only with a (nearly) full party.

4) Treat the hound as a dangerous Champion or Reaper - kill it first!

5) If you hear a howl, let the party know. If you are Hunted, let the party know!

6) If you observe party members who do not "help" Hunted members - it's your call what action to take, but consider your options. :cool:

7) If your build starts off weak at Level 1 (or you just want to get stronger before risking hounds), you can do the quick Solo quests in The Harbor. If you dawdle, a Hound can spawn in those Solo quests, but if you do the quest efficiently it seems you're out before that can trigger. You can easily get Level 2 this way (with just a little repetition), and it's possible to get 3 (with a lot more).

8) The Hunt timer keeps ticking after a quest is finished. Get your loot and get out!

Good luck!

Some new observations - I ran my level 5 Artificer through the WW chain, including hunting rares in the sewers. I ran with my pet, the lvl 3 frog & the lvl 5 satyr. Many hounds, and I never took any dmg worth noting. So there's a meta for them at least before they start the insane dots. Two things I noted. 1) I was always targeted - never the hires/pet. 2) The hounds almost always, with a couple of exceptions, did not go for me first - they usually went for the frog. I concluded that their scripting prefers the lowest level character in the party. I noticed this playing Saltmarsh too. I usually got targeted when I was lvl 4 & the party were all lvl 5's ...

[C-Dog]

2) The hounds almost always, with a couple of exceptions, did not go for me first - they usually went for the frog. I concluded that their scripting prefers the lowest level character in the party. I noticed this playing Saltmarsh too. I usually got targeted when I was lvl 4 & the party were all lvl 5's ...
I'd like some confirmation on this before adding it to the Wiki - have others seen this as well?


@ All: QUESTION: It's been noted that the stacks of elemental debuff change to DoT "at level 5 quests" - is this equiv quest level 7, or would a Lvl 5 quest on Normal show this as well? What about Wilderness* (which are effective "normal" difficulty) - are DoT's showing in Lvl 5 Wilds (3BC, Feywild), or not until Lvl 7 (Sorrowdusk, Isle of Dread)?

(* https://ddowiki.com/page/Wilderness_adventure_area#Wilderness_Adventure_Are as - btw, Searing Heights is Lvl 6)

[FengXian]

I'd like some confirmation on this before adding it to the Wiki - have others seen this as well?


@ All: QUESTION: It's been noted that the stacks of elemental debuff change to DoT "at level 5 quests" - is this equiv quest level 7, or would a Lvl 5 quest on Normal show this as well? What about Wilderness* (which are effective "normal" difficulty) - are DoT's showing in Lvl 5 Wilds (3BC, Feywild), or not until Lvl 7 (Sorrowdusk, Isle of Dread)?

(* https://ddowiki.com/page/Wilderness_adventure_area#Wilderness_Adventure_Are as - btw, Searing Heights is Lvl 6)

Someone said they show up in the Feywild, so I assume base lv 5 quests and wilderness.

[sabella]

Edit: what I love about this mechanic is it makes you think about every ROOM you go in. What if a hound comes ? What will I do during this fight if it does ? Going into any fight without thinking it through could be death. Love that.

THIS! That's what I'm loving too. I love me some DDO. We've (my little family group) played this game so long that I still get a little shock when I walk up to the marketplace from the Harbor below level 4 - wait, aren't I too little to go through that gate? ;)

I still love the game, but it has totally gotten easier and easier over the years, and what I miss most is the need to strategize on every quest or every debuff (how do you get out blind, does everyone know where all the rests are in case we have to run to one?). We would fail a quest, talk about a new way of attacking it and try again.

This isn't quite that - try again is kinda limited in permadeath, but still the strategy for each room, dungeon, area? That's a blast! Thanks for setting it up for me :)

PS: I would very much like to see the bugs fixed. Nobody wants to get hit with a bug and if you can get rid of most of them, I'd appreciate it. Please and Thank you :)

[knightindullarmor]

Disagree.

I killed 2 solo, one each as Level 1 and Level 2, with an arti w/ PBS (only) and the Ember repeater. Not a "weak" build, but nothing special.


Not true. I observed one spawning next to one of our party members while we were paused - there was def "time to run" if the player was observant.

What is not allowed is a chance to go afk or stop paying attention. :cool:



Yes - no easy street, no kiddies' pool, no "perfectly safe" way to level.

We've seen people give the "advice" to simply run Easy/Hard and farm Slayers and limp to 20 for that reward - very doable (previously). But now, even that is "Hard Core", and that's (literally) the name of the game).

And truly "new" players are not funneled to HC - it's a decision they choose to make, and (one would hope, after all the discussion) an informed one.


Bottom line - stay alert, or risk getting dead. Just that simple. :/

So you don't have a problem with them using the highest DPS build at level 1 and 2. Sure later in the game, other classes can shine, but no other level 1 class can do the sustained DPS that an Artificer can. Even a fighter who spends a feat on proficiency doesn't have the ability to make +1 bolts and/or the enchant weapon spell. YES, that makes your build "special" compared to other classes.