BUG? SWF ok with Balance Tome as Prerequisite

[Bjond]

By accident I forgot to put any ranks into Balance and was still able to take SWF & iSWF. I didn't noticed until I couldn't take gSWF. The character has a Balance Tome+5. I confirmed it by testing with a new iconic. Tried to take SWF at L1 and could not (no Balance ranks and no Balance tome). Ate a Balance+2 tome and was able to take SWF at L3 with zero ranks in Balance.

Was this an intended change to the feat that never made the patch notes? Has it always been that way and I never noticed because I believed the wiki?

It potentially nets another 5 skill points. So, not a big thing -- will likely end up in a "fluff" skill like swimming.

[cru121]

Tomes count for prerequisites. Which wikipedia says something else?

[LightBear]

Tomes count for prerequisites. Which wikipedia says something else?

It doesn't:
https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Tome_of_Skill#Notes


Notes[edit (https://ddowiki.com/edit/Item:Tome_of_Skill?section=3)]

Bonuses from tomes persist through Reincarnation (https://ddowiki.com/page/Reincarnation) (will survive through TR).
Note that only the most powerful version of a tome will apply (using two +1 tomes on the same skill will only provide one +1 total inherent bonus to that skill). Hover over your skills' total mods in your character sheet to see what inherent bonuses you may already have to each skill. This item is Bound to Account.
Stacks with ability tomes (https://ddowiki.com/page/Ability_tome):

Allows use of trained skills, such as Tumble (https://ddowiki.com/page/Tumble) and Perform (https://ddowiki.com/page/Perform), without ranks.
Does NOT allow use of class-specific trained skills, such as Disable Device (https://ddowiki.com/page/Disable_Device) and Open Locks (https://ddowiki.com/page/Open_Locks), without ranks (unless you are in a relevant class).


Source: DDO Forums (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/416284)

[Bjond]

Tomes count for prerequisites. Which wikipedia says something else?
Both of them, though not directly. Feat qualification text in-game and wikis specifically call for ranks, not ranks+bonuses. Tomes do not give ranks. Ergo, tomes don't help qualify. Neither wiki even indirectly implies that tomes count as ranks for for feat qualifications.

It's a buggy in-game text description for tome behavior. It's an error of omission by the wikis, though it only rises to the level of error because the wikis are pretty good about covering long-standing text/behavior issues.

BTW, I can sympathize with whoever wrote the description. Can't call them ranks in the tome's description when they don't take up rank-space or show as ranks. If they were truly ranks, you'd only be able to put another 18 or 6.5 ranks on top of a tome+5 unless they also raised the rank-cap.

However, concise and accurate for the tool-tip is possible. Here's an example of that it should be, though it might need a line for UMD. Wiki implies UMD can be used with only tomes, but forums plant both feet solidly on either side of the fence. Most posts say UMD still needs training to use:


grants +X bonus to skill, limited by level: L1=2, L2=3, L7=4, L11=5.
tumble & perform are considered trained (can be used with 0 ranks)
disable device & open lock are considered trained for rogues & artificers
meets rank prerequisites for feats; eg. balance and swf
survives TR, does not stack; eg. tome+1 & tome+2 = tome+2

[cru121]

On ddowiki, I have added explicitly added this information to a bunch of pages:
- https://ddowiki.com/page/Feats#Prerequisites
- https://ddowiki.com/page/Inherent_bonus
- https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Tome_of_Skill#Notes

On ddocompendium, they don't seem to have a page for skill tomes. I only slapped it here:
- https://ddocompendium.com/w/Feats#Prerequisites

[Bjond]

[QUOTE=cru121;6515058]On ddowiki, I have added explicitly added this information to a bunch of pages:

That's really nice to see! BTW, I wasn't complaining about the wiki -- I posted it more as a heads-up for anyone perhaps googling for balance+swf or other skill tome questions.