What's the deal with guards as item enchantments?

[Erokir]

I've seen a bunch of talk going back several years about guard enchantments (i.e. good guard, solar guard, thorn guard, etc...) either not working at all or not working correctly.

I'm Cannith Crafting some low level gear and trying to decide whether to put a guard on my boots, being that I have an open item slot.

If guards work at all, even if they do only one hit-die of damage, then I might as well add a guard to my boots.

Can anyone tell me if Cannith Crafted guard enchantments work at all? And, if so, do they proc only on being hit, or both on being hit and missed?

Thanks!

[LeoLionxxx]

I've seen a bunch of talk going back several years about guard enchantments (i.e. good guard, solar guard, thorn guard, etc...) either not working at all or not working correctly.


The reason they don't work reliably on lots of gear (IIRC) is that the effect has a hard time telling what LV the item is by the time it gets to the monster to deal damage. They would thus default to their lowest damage dice (ex. 1D8). For this reason, guard effects were actually removed from Cannith crafting a while back!

(just hopped on to double check and, indeed, I'm not seeing guard effects in the center Cannith machine)

[Erokir]

The reason they don't work reliably on lots of gear (IIRC) is that the effect has a hard time telling what LV the item is by the time it gets to the monster to deal damage. They would thus default to their lowest damage dice (ex. 1D8). For this reason, guard effects were actually removed from Cannith crafting a while back!

(just hopped on to double check and, indeed, I'm not seeing guard effects in the center Cannith machine)

Oh... Well, that makes my decision easy.

Thanks!


P.S.: The Cannith Crafting planner that I use still has them listed as options.

http://ccplanner.byethost14.com/?i=1

[C-Dog]

Nearly exact conversations have occurred before - not that that's a terrible thing, just admitting that I'm going to largely copy/paste here.


...I'm Cannith Crafting some low level gear and trying to decide whether to put a guard on my boots, being that I have an open item slot...
Since the OP's question has been addressed, allow me to go slightly off-topic, and answer the question the OP is not asking, but that needs to be answered.

Do not use Guard items.

Mainly talking droploot, but certainly don't bother with anything that crafts them. Just don't.

Okay, maybe, but only if your character is in fresh out of the box in lowbie Heroics and has absolutely, literally nothing better - sure. But after you're done with the Harbor and the kobold trash there, Guard items are a losing proposition.

Guard items (when/if they do work!) do a flat, unmodified Xd6 damage, and do not scale as you go up in level and difficulty. The hits an enemy gives you do scale, and become much bigger than "Xd6" by Level 4 quests or so - so that trade off starts badly and only gets worse and worse as you level up.

More, you only have so many equipment slots for gear effects (and fewer than a good wishlist!), and you definitely have better options (again, unless you simply don't own anything that is better - but that's a long list).

Almost any effect is preferable do a flat xd6 of damage - something, anything. Seriously.

(Here's the list of suffix effects for boots (https://ddowiki.com/page/Cannith_Crafting/table_1b#Boots):

Abilities: Strength
Diversion
Parrying
Sheltering
Skills:
o Jump
o Swim
Insightful Balance
Insightful Diversion

Gotta be something there.

[FuzzyDuck81]

I'd modify it & say that while damage-dealing guard effects are pretty garbage outside of certain specific ones on named gear (eg. battlerager's harness, incineration guard on red dragon armour), other ones such as brilliance/radiance, trap the soul, freezing ice, roar etc. can be a nice addition - there's also the ones that proc effects such as displacement, greater boon of undeath & a few others on your character when you get hit.

[C-Dog]

Proc'd effects are a different animal. Cloak of the Mimic (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Cloak_of_the_Mimic) is one of my personal favorites. Or the more recent Steal the Soul droploot items - on a docent on your pet dog, hilarious.

We're talking "Xd6 damage" Guard items.

Battlerager (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Battlerager%27s_Harness) does a fixed range of damage but 1) that's appropriate to its level (ML 26), and 2) since it's near end-game, you don't lose a lot to scaling that damage up as you level.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Or the more recent Steal the Soul droploot items - on a docent on your pet dog, hilarious.

"This is fluffy, he runs around, breaks boxes, pulls levers & occasionally devours souls. Who's a good doggo, Fluffy is, that's who!"