I'd appreciate a way to combine all Daily Roll XP Gems you hoard into 1 Gem.

[SoVeryBelgian]

>Title


They don't stack and take up inventory space, but I keep em cuz buying Otto's Boxes is a fool's errand on my budget.

12 slots of 300-1000 XP is better than nothing when you freshly TR.


I'd just like a way to combine them into 1 Gem.

Maybe a 'Stone of Past Blessings' or 'Gift of Experience Earned' that you can add them to.





...It's a pipe dream but eh

[CSQ]

>Title


They don't stack and take up inventory space, but I keep em cuz buying Otto's Boxes is a fool's errand on my budget.

12 slots of 300-1000 XP is better than nothing when you freshly TR.


I'd just like a way to combine them into 1 Gem.

Maybe a 'Stone of Past Blessings' or 'Gift of Experience Earned' that you can add them to.





...It's a pipe dream but eh

This would be a nice option. Obviously, I don't think it's necessarily perfect- someone might not want to dump all their experience at once, or might want to pass some stones across characters, so at some point it would probably need to be an additional option instead of a full replacement (at least unless there's some thorough reformatting of how claiming experience works). I also don't think it's necessarily intended to be able to store a ton of experience this way, so I don't know if the developers are interested in implementing this.

[YUTANG75]

This would be nice, especially with the current daily VIP gold dice rolls giving lots of higher valued XP gems. I absolutely hoard the gems above 500XP once I'm in epics because I feel its a waste to not use them to skip the first few heroic levels. To this end I have toon just filled with XP gems from when I was playing HC XD. I just kept them all because I was always XP capped.

It would be very nice to combine my stashes into a single gem/item, bonus points if I can choose how much to take out each time. That said I could understand if the devs aren't a fan, especially wrt enabling skipping the low-level content; because yes that would be my near exclusive use for the daily dice XP.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Propsed new VIP perk - XP bank... works like the plat bank but you drag & drop XP gems into it, then talk to an NPC who checks your current balance & gives out gems in 1k, 2k, 5k, 10k, 20k, 50k, 100k & 200k increments... and yes, i may have based that on UK coin values :P

Could even add an option for dispensing them as sentient XP gems instead at 1/10 of the value so 100 to 20k sentient XP.

[Redtalktree]

Propsed new VIP perk - XP bank... works like the plat bank but you drag & drop XP gems into it, then talk to an NPC who checks your current balance & gives out gems in 1k, 2k, 5k, 10k, 20k, 50k, 100k & 200k increments... and yes, i may have based that on UK coin values :P

Could even add an option for dispensing them as sentient XP gems instead at 1/10 of the value so 100 to 20k sentient XP.

good idea maybe like charging you an arm or leg or even 2 as currently shared banking do

[Wizard1406]

Even just making them stack would be fantastic. Only 11 slots if you discard below 500 xp, 15 otherwise.

[mbartol]

Stacking also wouldn’t require developing a new system. There are 21 unique values that would take up just over a single backpack/bank tab on a mule, which would help considerably.

I still have tons of XP stones left over from the daily season pass gold rolls and extra rolls from HC leagues. I’ve even started skipping to level 5 on a TR for the convenience of starting with my Feywild gear set.

[MyStiK-GaMeR]

Great idea. I recently finished grinding lives on my main and don't plan on starting on the alt yet and my space is shrinking fast with daily gold rolls. I'm already just tossing away smaller stones since they aren't worth the space.

[boredGamer]

Even just making them stack would be fantastic. Only 11 slots if you discard below 500 xp, 15 otherwise.

Stacking seems like a great way to do it. I started eating everything below 2k immediately now . But I guess stacking is also how most duping works ?

[Stoner81]

This would be a nice option. Obviously, I don't think it's necessarily perfect- someone might not want to dump all their experience at once, or might want to pass some stones across characters, so at some point it would probably need to be an additional option instead of a full replacement (at least unless there's some thorough reformatting of how claiming experience works). I also don't think it's necessarily intended to be able to store a ton of experience this way, so I don't know if the developers are interested in implementing this.

True enough but what you could do is set up multiple gems with similar values...

For example I TR and use gems to hit level 3 which on 3rd life is 32K XP, if I could combine my gems I would make multiple gems each worth that much or as close as possible to it.

The possibilities are almost endless for the idea and has been thrown about since daily were introduced more or less. Heck I would even pay to have this ability! I have a mule nearly full of gems who has all available inventory and bank slots bought.

/signed like a million times over!

Stoner81.

[Drwaz99]

Create an item (preferrable one that drops in-game) similar to a sentient gems (sentient-ish potion?) but we feed it XP stones. And when it's filled or any time in-between, we can consume it and gain that much XP.

[Oxarhamar]

Create an item (preferrable one that drops in-game) similar to a sentient gems (sentient-ish potion?) but we feed it XP stones. And when it's filled or any time in-between, we can consume it and gain that much XP.

I like this idea

[droid327]

I always imagined the problem was there were only so many discrete XP stone items in the database. There is no, e.g., 3100 XP stone in the game's database to turn your 1000, 1000, 500, 300, and 300 stone into.

But you'd think at the very least you could have a partial solution using the current systems, with a cruncher that let you combine specific XP stones to consolidate. Like 100+400=500, 300+200=500, 500+500=1000, 750+750=1500. Even just those four recipes would be a huge boon for storage space on your XP stone mule since it'd let you combine everything from silver rolls to 1000s and 1500s

Then have the same ones x10 for VIPs with gold rolls. Especially now they all get daily dice...its kind of a backhanded present when it requires them to store so many more stones

[Dendrix]

Easiestsolution would be to allow them to stack to 100 per stack.

[Enoach]

I think the more elegant solution would be to allow these to stack in inventory.

I speculate the reason they don't may have to do with the idea that they don't want us to accumulate these XP stones.

At this time I have an alt that banks any 1k+ so I can begin at level 3 for a TR. Since I run multiple characters constantly the ones lower then 1k simply get used on the spot so to speak.

[Dnarth]

Stacking sounds great if it's in a bag. I can't afford 15 slots to stackable xp stones. In a bag definitely. Daily gold and silver rolls is getting out of hand.

[Jaxtan]

Anything along these lines would be a major QOL improvement. I too bank the larger XP stones on mules so a character can start at level 3 or 4 after a TR. XP stones don't serve much of a purpose other than jumping a few levels after a TR, or closing a small XP gap when close to leveling and you don't want to run another quest until you level. Even if they only stacked in the bank or a bag would be great. Anything! :)

[Cordovan]

I think the more elegant solution would be to allow these to stack in inventory.

I speculate the reason they don't may have to do with the idea that they don't want us to accumulate these XP stones.

At this time I have an alt that banks any 1k+ so I can begin at level 3 for a TR. Since I run multiple characters constantly the ones lower then 1k simply get used on the spot so to speak.

No need to speculate, it is absolutely true that stacking XP stones would create extremely problematic behavior for the long-term health of the game. We don't have plans to change the way these stones work, but if we did, offering further opportunity to hoard them would not likely be something we would pursue.

[Jaxtan]

Thank you for giving us the heads up so we do not pine for what cannot be.

Given the feedback, what could replace the xp stones that would be of value/use, and players would not have an incentive to hoard? Anything I can think of right now I would probably want to hoard! :)

edit: I am a bit of a pack rat, and keep pretty much at least one of everything named that drops just in case.

[LightBear]

No need to speculate, it is absolutely true that stacking XP stones would create extremely problematic behavior for the long-term health of the game. We don't have plans to change the way these stones work, but if we did, offering further opportunity to hoard them would not likely be something we would pursue.

How about looking at it from the long term customer relation side of things?
The xp-gems eating other xp-gems should free up more resources as less mules to keep score/track off.
Less unique items floating around and nothing stacking as, well, you know why xp-gems are not allowed to stack anymore.

Maybe offer such a cruncher to, I don't know, with a 2 year subscription plan?
Then I might be tempted to buy that one.

Heck, we could even make it a cash-xp debit system on the bank.
Feed it all the xp stones you want on your shared account and withdraw it from the bank.
Perhaps even one day we could store saga rewards directly to bank that way.

[Carpone]

There's already a solution: Store them in the shared bank, or on a mule.

[Amoneth]

No need to speculate, it is absolutely true that stacking XP stones would create extremely problematic behavior for the long-term health of the game. We don't have plans to change the way these stones work, but if we did, offering further opportunity to hoard them would not likely be something we would pursue.

What about an XP "Bank" that they could be deposited into then withdrawn from, as a number, much like the plat bank? I'd love for the saga rewards to go into there too because so many of those rewards are useless to me due to being capped at the time I do the sagas and also having a maxed guild, all the +3 tomes, etc. There could be separation between heroic and epic XP, so the large epic saga XP couldn't be used at heroic levels, where it wasn't intended to be used. Currently, the only way I can use epic saga XP is to ETR then level back up to 30, which I really prefer not to do as I need less Epic past lives than I do Heroic/Racial so I prefer to ETR directly followed by Heroic/Racial then do Reaper first time bonuses after each life.

[droid327]

There's already a solution: Store them in the shared bank, or on a mule.

Its easy to fill an entire mule with them if you're, e.g., ETRing for a while

[Amoneth]

How about looking at it from the long term customer relation side of things?
The xp-gems eating other xp-gems should free up more resources as less mules to keep score/track off.
Less unique items floating around and nothing stacking as, well, you know why xp-gems are not allowed to stack anymore.

Maybe offer such a cruncher to, I don't know, with a 2 year subscription plan?
Then I might be tempted to buy that one.

Heck, we could even make it a cash-xp debit system on the bank.
Feed it all the xp stones you want on your shared account and withdraw it from the bank.
Perhaps even one day we could store saga rewards directly to bank that way.

Doh, I didn't read your post before I wrote mine, you pretty much said exactly the same thing!

[droid327]

What about an XP "Bank" that they could be deposited into then withdrawn from, as a number, much like the plat bank? I'd love for the saga rewards to go into there too because so many of those rewards are useless to me due to being capped at the time I do the sagas and also having a maxed guild, all the +3 tomes, etc. There could be separation between heroic and epic XP, so the large epic saga XP couldn't be used at heroic levels, where it wasn't intended to be used. Currently, the only way I can use epic saga XP is to ETR then level back up to 30, which I really prefer not to do as I need less Epic past lives than I do Heroic/Racial so I prefer to ETR directly followed by Heroic/Racial then do Reaper first time bonuses after each life.

I think that'd be too easy to abuse by simply banking 8.3M XP and then claiming it to ETR and immediately jump back to 30

You can bank one of each saga to get like a third of the way through an Epic life, but I dont think they want to let you entirely pre-pay an ETR. Its much easier to grind sagas at 30, of course, and that defeats the whole purpose of their ED overhaul.

Also there's no way they'll ever let you earn XP on one char and then apply it to another

[ahpook]

I think that'd be too easy to abuse by simply banking 8.3M XP and then claiming it to ETR and immediately jump back to 30

You can bank one of each saga to get like a third of the way through an Epic life, but I dont think they want to let you entirely pre-pay an ETR. Its much easier to grind sagas at 30, of course, and that defeats the whole purpose of their ED overhaul.



At an average of 5K per day, it would take 4.5 years to get that kind of XP. If the feature was VIP only, then SSG should be thrilled with the outcome you describe. Even a heroic life would take well over a year. Cordovan's warning of dire repercussions should they allow people to bank/hoard XP stones is countered by the fact that millions of XP are allowed with the swipe of credit card. At the rate XP stones can be amassed I fail to see a problem that is not insignificant compared to Otto's boxes. At the rate XP stones can be amassesed I fail to see how they are even a loss in sales in ottos boxes compared to the money they would get from VIP subscribers (ie. a stacking XP stone bank tab). A VIP sub getting a free heroic life every 2 years hardly seems problematic.


Also there's no way they'll ever let you earn XP on one char and then apply it to another
XP stones from DD rolls already do give any alt XP so this "no way" statement is neither relevant nor factual.

[Dnarth]

At an average of 5K per day, it would take 4.5 years to get that kind of XP. If the feature was VIP only, then SSG should be thrilled with the outcome you describe. Even a heroic life would take well over a year. Cordovan's warning of dire repercussions should they allow people to bank/hoard XP stones is countered by the fact that millions of XP are allowed with the swipe of credit card. At the rate XP stones can be amassed I fail to see a problem that is not insignificant compared to Otto's boxes. At the rate XP stones can be amassesed I fail to see how they are even a loss in sales in ottos boxes compared to the money they would get from VIP subscribers (ie. a stacking XP stone bank tab). A VIP sub getting a free heroic life every 2 years hardly seems problematic.


XP stones from DD rolls already do give any alt XP so this "no way" statement is neither relevant nor factual.



Maths it's even hard for SSG.......


Thank you for the math reality check.

Turning a life in 7-10 days. For me anyway. I get to use them on the start of a new life. I don't particularity have a storage problem for stones. If I was going to 30 to hang out for a hot minute then I would have a storage issue. Dropping a stone everyday to eat when there is so much xp in the game to run with people. It pretty much counter intuitive to eat a stone for so little xp when one will probably cap out and not get all their xp for that last quest when they are at the end the last rank to xp. The very least would be a xp gem bag.

[Zess-wolf]

Didnt read all the thread, so unsure it has already been sugested:

Why not make within the daily dice window a panel where the xp is "stored", the panel being accessed account wide, akin to a shared bank window, but exclusive to xp stones from dice

Would be a list of the xp crystals that we have, being able to order by amount, or acquire date, etc

And we could just click "Use/Apply" and we would get the xp on the char we are logged in

Personally i wouldnt mind it being a premium/vip feature, or limited by how many spaces we have, etc

Advantages:
-No inventory taken
-We can manage xp from any character we have
-Easier to use, manage
-Faster to start on TRs (if you save them to start at 3)

No disadvantage that i can see, would be still BTA as we are

[Carpone]

Didnt read all the thread
Go read Cordo's response.

The game doesn't need piecemeal inventory engineering work for daily dice rolls. It needs a holistic approach of adding more inventory space as a whole -- something the player base has been clammering many years for. According to the producer's letter, they are updating character banks in 4Q22.

[droid327]

No need to speculate, it is absolutely true that stacking XP stones would create extremely problematic behavior for the long-term health of the game. We don't have plans to change the way these stones work, but if we did, offering further opportunity to hoard them would not likely be something we would pursue.

Counterpoint: storage is another major issue in the game, both from a player perspective and SSG's technical perspective. The system right now encourages you to hoard stones, to the extent its practical. That's not going to change, and its not really something you can expect the players not to do, because its optimal gameplay.

Ideally, you never want a system that's predicated on simply being too inconvenient to be problematic. Relying on the impracticality of hoarding and eating 3.8M worth of XP stones is not the most elegant way to prevent that behavior from happening.

What I'd suggest is perhaps allowing XP stones to stack via some method (I still like my vendor idea), but putting a cap on the largest stone you could create, and then adding an 18h timer on stone eating. Maybe like 32,000...enough to get you to L3 right after a TR (third life), but not enough to really level you quickly past that. That way, if you eat your stone every day like you're "supposed to", no change. If you hoard your stones, then you can combine them to save inventory room, but you cant use it to create a backdoor Otto's Box.

Or perhaps adding a max level to stones, or some other similar technical gating to make it impossible to use the stones in ways that are deleterious to the long-term health of the game, not just impractical by relying on something that's also deleterious to the long-term health of the game like inventory management issues

[ahpook]

Why not make within the daily dice window a panel where the xp is "stored", the panel being accessed account wide, akin to a shared bank window, but exclusive to xp stones from dice



That would be nice but a rather large change. If they could pull that off, it would be better to use that effort to solve storage in general. OTOH, getting them to stack is likely only a flag that would need to be toggled to get them to store like pots or cookies.

Unfortunately SSG seems to think that stacking them would cause severe and possibly catastrophic issues (which frankly makes little sense when XP stones that have the added benefit of being improved by XP boosts and events are sold in the store). I would be interested to know what that issue could possibly be. Frankly, I can only come up with duping issues and if that is still a risk they really should fix that problem.

[DoctorOfLiterature]

I don't think this is going to happen and it wouldn't be my biggest priority for Devs, but I could see creating XP bags, like gem or ingredient bags, but just for exp stones. Small ones could be free or bought with some other game currency and larger ones could be purchasable in the DDO store perhaps. My guess is the Devs want our backpacks full so we buy more bank storage so if there isn't some way for them to monetize this, I doubt it happens.

[Alphabox]

We can solve this problem by making 1/10exp (or 1/20) available as SentinentEXP

It doesn't hurt my conscience because I'm not throwing it away like garbage.

[RTN]

No need to speculate, it is absolutely true that stacking XP stones would create extremely problematic behavior for the long-term health of the game. We don't have plans to change the way these stones work, but if we did, offering further opportunity to hoard them would not likely be something we would pursue.

Kill two birds with one stone. Allow VIP to start at L4 on TR. People hoard to get to L4 on TR so they can spend their reaper points. VIP benefit, which you've said matters, and people will have a lot less need to hoard their XP nuggets.

[SiliconScout]

Even just making them stack would be fantastic. Only 11 slots if you discard below 500 xp, 15 otherwise.won't happen, probably shouldn't either given that the VAST majority of Duping exploits involve items that stack, especially items that stack and can go into a bag but being bankable is just as good often enough.

Best bet would be to allow them to be combined in stone of change maybe, that would be nice. Toss in a 750xp and a 3000xp gem and get a 3750xp gem back. It's unlikely to happen though given the sheer number of items they would have to create to accommodate the values as I expect each stone is a specific amount of XP and not something that could be "set" when it's created. Meaning they make a 500xp stone not an XP stone and then assign it's value to be 500.

The most likely solution would be to allow some sort of bank like the shared plat bank where you can deposit the stones and then pull an XP stone of specific value back out.

[SiliconScout]

... Cordovan's warning of dire repercussions should they allow people to bank/hoard XP stones is countered by the fact that millions of XP are allowed with the swipe of credit card ...I STRONGLY suspect the "dire repercussions" have nothing to do with banking or hoarding XP stones and everything to do with Duping them. Duping could produce millions of XP in just a few minutes with NO revenue generated for SSG in that process. That's a significant and dire repercussion.

[Eantarus]

No need to speculate, it is absolutely true that stacking XP stones would create extremely problematic behavior for the long-term health of the game. We don't have plans to change the way these stones work, but if we did, offering further opportunity to hoard them would not likely be something we would pursue.

So if we're not meant to horde the stones for use during TR/new character creation, what does SSG intend us to use them for? Rolling & eating immediately is a waste of time; a DD stone is a spit in the ocean. Just what does SSG want us to do with them?

[droid327]

So if we're not meant to horde the stones for use during TR/new character creation, what does SSG intend us to use them for? Rolling & eating immediately is a waste of time; a DD stone is a spit in the ocean. Just what does SSG want us to do with them?

I've often thought xp stones should give you a % of progress towards your next level instead of just a flat amount of xp. Quest xp scales roughly the same as xp-to-level, beyond the earliest levels, so a 1% or 2% or 5% bonus would work out to the same amount of time spent questing at most levels. Well, those numbers are probably too high, but each "box" on the xp bar is 1% of your next level so could be incremented by 0.5%

That'd make it pointless to hoard stones, because no matter what level you're at, they save you the same amount of time playing.

Plus, that adds value back to low level quests, since saltmarsh really over saturated L1-3 content

[Vooduspyce]

It'd be cool if we could crunch multiples at the stone of change into bigger values.

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

1.) No stones....The XP on a daily dice is immediately applied to the character logged on at time of rolling regardless of whether or not they can use them.

2.) Mortal stones...They have a limited lifespan. A few weeks and they turn to dust when logging on, extracted from bank etc.

3.) Mysterious stones...Make new ones that stack, but the value isn't known till they are used, like the die rolls for healing potions, perhaps they are affected by current XP bonuses (guild buffs, VIP-PREM-FTP status, XP boost potions).

4.) Mimic stones....Turn them into XP bonus potions.

5.) Guilded stones...Allow the stones to be applied to guild renown.

6.) Limited stones....A single bag, per account where you can store 20 max. One per account per server. This bag is not a physical item, more like some part of the store, rolled at time of redemption and immediately applied to character logged on.

7.) Tradable stones...Have a vendor that exchanges them for item (buffs, potions, other consumable....useful items) based on the value of the stone. (100-999 lv 1-9, 1000-9999 lv 10-19, 10000+ lv 20+)

8.) Mutating stones...Make them tradable for a VERY small amount of AS... Just kidding.

9.) Pet stones...Have them turn into annoying pets.

10.) Surprise! stones...Have the next character that opens the bank eat all stored stones they can access against their wishes....mwah ha hah!

The proceeding post is for entertainment only, any attempt to apply, argue about, flag, troll or agree with is just silly and you should probably go have a nice nap.

[Qlumsee]

Lots of suggestions here, but in the end a change wouldn't be great. The current system works fine for me and, let's face it, it's something for nothing. Be careful of what you wish for.

[Eantarus]

Lots of suggestions here, but in the end a change wouldn't be great. The current system works fine for me and, let's face it, it's something for nothing. Be careful of what you wish for.

I'm not suggesting any changes personally. Its just based the dev comment it sounds like SSG doesn't want us to hoard them. If that's the case, I want to know what they think we should be doing with them?

[Dnarth]

Lots of suggestions here, but in the end a change wouldn't be great. The current system works fine for me and, let's face it, it's something for nothing. Be careful of what you wish for.


I will give you daily silver rolls are something for nothing. Gold rolls are not something for nothing. Those are bought. Simple elementary school econ here. No wonder the world is in debt....... lol least it's just fiat.

[brian14]

I'm not suggesting any changes personally. Its just based the dev comment it sounds like SSG doesn't want us to hoard them. If that's the case, I want to know what they think we should be doing with them?

SSG thinks you should use XP Gems immediately. They were explicit about it regarding the XP gems you get from saga rewards.

[SiliconScout]

SSG thinks you should use XP Gems immediately. They were explicit about it regarding the XP gems you get from saga rewards.I don't disagree that they would prefer we use them immediately but I still maintain the real reason they don't want them to stack is because if they can stack then they can be duped.

[ahpook]

I don't disagree that they would prefer we use them immediately but I still maintain the real reason they don't want them to stack is because if they can stack then they can be duped.

I think you are correct. At the same time, after the duping exploits in this game, I am amazed that the producer of this game is comfortable not having 99.999% confidence that the stack dupe issue had been eradicated and that what you describe is not an issue.

[SiliconScout]

I think you are correct. At the same time, after the duping exploits in this game, I am amazed that the producer of this game is comfortable not having 99.999% confidence that the stack dupe issue had been eradicated and that what you describe is not an issue.Unfortunately Duping is still more or less rampant it is just that those who know keep that knowledge tightly tightly guarded now. The common "easy" methods are gone but given the year round availability of otto's and Tenser's boxes for pennies on the dollar (if you know where to look) screams otherwise.

[Dendrix]

Here is how to make it awesome and reuse a lot of existing code:

Add a new currency type: Banked XP.
It's an server wide currency, just like Astral Shards.
Stick it on the Character sheet with an XP graphic next to it.

Gold and Silver rolls no longer grant you the stones directly, they update the Banked XP currency, just like Astral Shards does. (Yes I do know the item appears briefly in your inventory and is auto consumed).

To gain the XP on a character: Click on the XP symbol on the character sheet for your Banked XP currency slot. This pops up the type in a number dialog and then type in how much you want to gain and hit OK. Confirm this with the existing gain XP dialog.

Done. Look, no duping available as no items are there to be duped.



Dice Rolls Improvement:
Of course the gold and silver dice rolls should have a pair of D10's dice rolling on the screen tumbling in front of you (one numbered 10-20-30-40-50-60-70-80-90-00 the other numbered 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0) - and those dice should be gold or silver coloured.
Text on Screen saying "Free Daily Roll" if it is the free one, make people feel good about your generosity. Using Astral Shards text says "15 Astral Shard Roll" or "3 Astral Shard Roll"
Dice vanish in 20 seconds or mouse click/key press to dismiss.
The rewards should come up in a small font in the middle of the screen and grow in size to fill the screen over a 5 second time and remain on screen for 20 seconds or mouse click/key press to dismiss



As for the amount stored:
Personally I eat the stones so I can avoid the tedious regearing through those early levels and all the inventory/character swapping. I XP stone to to level 5. Put on kit. Play the lower levelled quests I like and then run "proper" quests to 10. Swap gear. run quests to 15. Swap gear. run quests to 18. Reincarnate.

[Chilldude]

As a developer, when you develop something it has an intended purpose. In fact, almost everything you make as a developer starts with the intention, you want to make something that performs some function. Rarely do you hit the nail on the head the first try. You make something, you see what it actually does, you make changes to the something to make it function closer to your intentions, and you see what this new thing actually does. You repeat this process until the thing you made functions in the way you intended it to function.

It's pretty obvious the intention of the daily roll was to motivate players to log in more frequently. With DDO's critically low population, it was a very good idea to try to get people to log in more often. If you've ever been in a raid group very early on when it's trying to fill you've seen people join, wait around awhile, and then leave because there were only a few players and they didn't want to waste their time waiting around on something that might never happen. As the raid starts to fill it fills faster and faster as the chance of it not happening rapidly decreases until finally you are turning away players when it becomes full. If a player logs in and there is no one around it's very much like joining a raid with only a couple of players, the chances are pretty good that you're going to waste your time waiting around and nothing is going to come of it.

As an example, take a guild with 20 members. Someone logs in, nobody is on in the guild, they wait around a couple minutes and then log off to find something better to do. A bit later another member of the guild does the same thing. It could happen several times a day, guild members log in, nobody is around, so they log right back out. People will start to log in with exponentially less frequency because every time they log in nobody is around, and it becomes a recursive death spiral.

Conversely, if nearly everyone in the guild logged in nearly every day, then the chances of running into someone else increases exponentially. The more frequently you log in and find someone to do something with the more frequently you'll want to log in, which in turn increases the odds that you'll be there when someone else logs in giving them something to do.

So we have a good intention, get players to log in more frequently. The developers decided a good way to get people to log in would be to give them some XP and a prize, both very sound ideas. What's the number one thing DDO players are looking for? XP. I'd say giving players XP for logging in every day is an excellent idea. Loot isn't a bad idea either as it's what people are after right behind XP.

So what's the problem? Well, the problem is the same problem that affects nearly everything in DDO, the developers aren't very good. They had a solid intended purpose and came up with a sound idea to perform that function, but their implementation was so terrible that it didn't even begin to perform that function. Worse, like everything else they do, they did absolutely nothing to make it function as intended!

They came up with a daily roll, which is a terrible idea right off the bat. How long do you need to be logged in to perform a daily roll? Under a minute. They shot themselves in the foot right out of the gate. You want players to log in and stick around for bit so that there is a chance for players to run in to each other, log in, roll, and log out does not satisfy that function at all.

The XP they give players is actually negative XP! They actually take XP away from players with the daily roll. I logged in and rolled a 65 on my silver roll. I got 400 XP. 400 XP is .01% of the 3.8 million XP it takes to get to level 20. To put it another way, it would take almost TEN THOUSAND 400 XP gems to get to 20. To put it another way, some people say you can get to 20 in less than 8 hours these days, that's roughly 500 minutes or ~30,000 seconds. The 400 XP daily roll gem would save you about 3 seconds. THREE SECONDS! That means if the entire process of rolling, waiting, finding the gem in your bags and clicking it takes longer than 3 seconds, which it almost assuredly would, then you would have actually earned more XP by skipping the roll and going straight to a quest. That was a 65, which means OVER HALF the rolls will award LESS XP!

In no way, shape, or form does 400 XP provide any sort of motivation to log in on a daily basis.

COMPLETE FAILURE TO FUNCTION AS INTENDED!

My prize for rolling a 65 was a haste pot. A haste pot. A haste pot? A haste pot. I don't know about you, but for me, a haste pot in no way motivates me to log in the next day to see what great prize awaits.

So the daily roll is a complete failure. I've known for a very long time that it is a complete waste of time to even roll. I've only every gotten like 2 things that weren't complete garbage for a prize and the XP is so terrible that it's actually a chore to hunt down all the inventory clogging trash. I would vastly prefer not getting any XP at all. It's actually worse than a complete failure, the daily roll is a joke, and a bad joke at that.

Now, if I am wrong, and the developers intention was to create a system that clogs your inventory with useless trash and wastes your time, then I have to applaud them, they are great developers and it is functioning exactly as intended. I don't think I'm wrong though, I think the intended purpose of the daily roll is quite obvious, and the daily roll unequivocally does not function as intended.

So what would?

It's easy to sit back and poke fun at a bad idea, but in this case it's even easier to come up with a much better idea...

Meet George, the daily quest giver in the Marketplace. Every day George picks 6 random quests as his daily quest challenge. Each quest is in a different level range and can only be completed by players in that range. If you complete George's quest and return to him he will award you XP and possibly a loot reward from the DDO store. The XP awarded is not modified by any usual items or buffs (except of course the 10% VIP bonus which applies to everything... I think?), however, it is modified by who you complete the quest with. He gives you 10% more XP per player in your party, or 20% for each guild member in your party, for a possible 100% bonus.

The ranges and XP awarded are 1-5 = 10K, 6-10 = 20K, 11-15 = 30K, 16-20 = 40K, 21-25 = 50K, 26+ = 60K.

On Saturdays and Sundays there is a 50% weekend bonus that is applied to the total XP awarded as well as an additional quest.

If you don't die in the quest you get to roll for a prize from a list of consumables in the DDO store.

Oh, did I forget to mention that the daily quest challenge must be completed on Reaper 5 skull difficulty?

This would give you a reason to log in more frequently. This would give you a reason to quest with other players. This would give you a reason to play with guildmates, recruit guildmates, and even combine smaller guilds. This would give stronger players a reason to bring weaker players along as well as a reason for weaker players to seek out stronger players. This would give you a reason to log in on weekends.

This would do so much for the game. They wouldn't just be giving away XP for logging in, clicking a button, and logging out. Players would not only have to earn their daily reward, they'd need to work together, and everyone would be better rewarded for having done so.

Would some elitists be elitist about it? Of course they would. A tiger can't change his stripes. However, there are going to be a lot of LFMs up for the daily quest providing a lot of opportunity for players to meet each other, make friendships, and grow their guilds further strengthening those friendships. Plus, it would afford the elitists a chance to show off. Just as a tree that falls in the forest makes no sound if no one is around to hear it, an elitist that ROFLstomps gets no applause if no one is around to cheer them.

I know that initially these XP awards might seem excessive given how tight fisted DDO is with XP, but they really aren't all that extravagant at all. Someone in heroics doing the daily quest each day is only going to get 400K max during the week, more probably around 300K unless they are in a very large guild. On weekends there'd be a pretty good chance of running guilded so 480K at the very most, that'd be running 2 fully guilded r5's on both Sat and Sun. 480+400 is a theoretical max of only 880K per week in heroics, that still leaves another 3 million XP to be earned. To put it another way, the grind in DDO is so stupendously ludicrous that this seemingly over the top bonus barely makes a dent. Triple completionist would still take years and years and years and years and years and years for the average player.

It would be so easy for DDO to implement this, and if they did the game would transform overnight, but they never will because they are completely satisfied milking the few remaining cash cows they got left for every drop they have in them.

[Amorais]

There's ways around this - sort of. I have a couple of mules I get to 20 , full their bank with gems and TR them. Then the gems are sat in their TR bank and not taking up space.

Bit of a bind but doing this I got my main toon to 8th level using hoarded gems yesterday :D

I agree with Cordovan...stacking might make this an abusable mechanic in the long run.

[brian14]

There's ways around this - sort of. I have a couple of mules I get to 20 , full their bank with gems and TR them. Then the gems are sat in their TR bank and not taking up space.

Bit of a bind but doing this I got my main toon to 8th level using hoarded gems yesterday :D

That seems counterproductive. It takes less time and effort to get the main to level 8 than to get a mule to 20.

[mbartol]

I agree with Cordovan...stacking might make this an abusable mechanic in the long run.

Not really—they sell Otto’s Boxes. How many daily rolls would it take to equal one of those? Even with daily VIP gold rolls, that’s a long time.

Unless of course you (and Cordovan) mean duping stones by making them stackable. So, therefore an honest use of XP stones has to be taken away from honest players because SSG can’t fix the duping problem. Just like honest players were punished with regards to the anniversary trading cards and night revels ingredients. I may be wrong, but it feels like this to me.

[Stoner81]

No need to speculate, it is absolutely true that stacking XP stones would create extremely problematic behavior for the long-term health of the game. We don't have plans to change the way these stones work, but if we did, offering further opportunity to hoard them would not likely be something we would pursue.

How would they?

WE ARE ALREADY HOARDING THEM!

Read the above again! As others have already saying getting enough XP to create an Otto's XP Stone would take years and years to do. But by fixing this then it frees up a lot of space in inventory, banks and mules which is at an all time high premium right now.

[Valerianus]

Not really—they sell Otto’s Boxes. How many daily rolls would it take to equal one of those? Even with daily VIP gold rolls, that’s a long time.

Unless of course you (and Cordovan) mean duping stones by making them stackable. So, therefore an honest use of XP stones has to be taken away from honest players because SSG can’t fix the duping problem. Just like honest players were punished with regards to the anniversary trading cards and night revels ingredients. I may be wrong, but it feels like this to me.


start of my very humble ranty opinion, also biased by my personal preferences, with no intention of criticize whatever my dear fellow players are doing. and talking in general, not directly to the person i quoted.

it's taking nothing away from honest players, devs perfectly know what free xp stones are worth. that is, nothing. thye are a free gift, or not so free if they are gold rolls, but no way are they meant to be used effectively in any phase of the leveling process. no way they are meant to be worth something. except if you fall into the trap and give them worth, and start hoarding them. like, mules (chars slots, bank\inventory) (time for favor unlock\ddo points to buy) and even moar time (storage management + if you don't log in you are "missing something omg what a nasty feeling", truer if you vip since you are paying) and add the boredom factor of managing it.

they are just a hook and a lure.

imho the time alone needed to manage hoarding xp stones, turn it into running some quick selected quest even on normal, doable with any random build\random gear....the quest is probably faster than storage management and for sure cheaper in any phase of the leveling process.


they'll never be stackable, never meant to be. they are meant to put you in gollum mode and whisper my precioussss and crave it. they are selling xp pots, gold rolls and otto, that's what they are interested in.

only exception: faster leveling in the very first levels using gold roll stones worth some k in tr train, but imho it's still debatable, put together all the time you need to manage the storing opposed to play some. this depends on the player and how you organize it. and anyway, consider the horrible storage this game has, and if you are vip, the nasty feeling of missing what you are paying for if you don't hoard it. it's set up on purpose to add a layer to the mule\char slot\storage slots issue, like selling storage patches like dimensional augment bag and hireling folders as high tier expansion bundles, leveraging game flaws to sell patches, not solutions. solutions, they cost.


end of my very humble ranty opinion, also biased by my personal preferences, with no intention of criticize whatever my dear fellow players are doing.



edit: it sounded maybe too aggressive the talk about trap and hook and lure. like some evil plot. it wasn't meant to be, it was supposed to be neutral. i'd better specify that there's a tacit concept under it that i did not express. i find it obvious and normal, nor good nor bad, if a mmo\product\advertise\whatever put in place something to draw attention and make you want something, like tricks that may be compared to trap\hook\lure. also the customer may find something entertaining if they bite and decide to bite, then it's a win-win. and it is also normal to pay for entertainment, whatever it means, also managing some big hoard in a mmo may be entertainment, why not, if you like it. but in the case of xp stones, i think that keeping them and wasting time for them is really messy cause they are not meant to be hoarded, and if you do, not money\time worth because the horrible storage system this game has. the horror.

[Amorais]

That seems counterproductive. It takes less time and effort to get the main to level 8 than to get a mule to 20.

Well, since they were going to 20 anyway it seemed a no-brainer to use them as gem hoarders.

Buy yeah, its probably not the most efficient thing in the world :p

[Juduss]

Lol I can see the future patch notes now: “Daily Dice XP will no longer produce a Stone of XP. Instead, all XP results from Daily Dice will be auto applied.”

Dev goal of non-hoarding? Check! Player goal of non-clogging? Check! Players happy with their “solution” to the “problem?” Nope!

Seems like how it usually goes…

[mbartol]

Lol I can see the future patch notes now: “Daily Dice XP will no longer produce a Stone of XP. Instead, all XP results from Daily Dice will be auto applied.”

Dev goal of non-hoarding? Check! Player goal of non-clogging? Check! Players happy with their “solution” to the “problem?” Nope!

Seems like how it usually goes…

Corrupt-a-wish in its truest form.

[Syrrah]

We can solve this problem by making 1/10exp (or 1/20) available as SentinentEXP

I just want to echo this here. Let the stone be used for sentience xp at a severe penalty.

[ChicagoChris]

No need to speculate, it is absolutely true that stacking XP stones would create extremely problematic behavior for the long-term health of the game. We don't have plans to change the way these stones work, but if we did, offering further opportunity to hoard them would not likely be something we would pursue.

Cordo - Any thoughts of being able to feed them to Jewels at maybe a 25% value (100xp = 25 sentient)? maybe only for XP < 1000?

[SiliconScout]

...

Oh, did I forget to mention that the daily quest challenge must be completed on Reaper 5 skull difficulty?

...Was going good on the suggestion (though the beginning was overly hostile) right up to this point. This basically locks out a large segment of the population because people who run R5+ can either solo it (so why bother bringing others) or already have a group that they run win (and basically don't need more). This would result, largely, in the same kind of abject failure you consider the daily dice to be.

A better implementation to this idea would be to require the quest to be run at Elite or higher difficulty and award XP based on the number of players who completed the quest. It's still open to exploitation / elitism but at least if people get locked out of the groups they can likely get their own together PDQ.

The buddy bonus events see more players playing together, build on that instead because it actually works for population and grouping.

[SiliconScout]

How would they?

WE ARE ALREADY HOARDING THEM!

Read the above again! As others have already saying getting enough XP to create an Otto's XP Stone would take years and years to do. But by fixing this then it frees up a lot of space in inventory, banks and mules which is at an all time high premium right now.Again the issue is not being able to get a level from them, it never was and you can tell that by the low value of the gems they'd be more than happy for someone to dump that many shards to try and get enough XP for even just one life.

The issue is duping for sure. There are players out there who given 2 15,000 XP stones could literally turn them into infinite XP quickly and easily. Granted they at BTA so at least you don't end up with an extension of the duped Otto's problem but for the players who can do that could literally run a full completionist from scratch to done without ever running a quest. That for sure is a problem.

Imagine being able to advertise selling a full completionist toon/account that doesn't have any gear but has a "done" character. It's not really a thing now because the work to make one represents many hours of quest running even using duped box stones so the price you would have to put on it to be "worth it" is a price nobody would pay. Turn that process into something like 2 or 3 hours total though and suddenly you can price point it to a point where they are sold. That would be extremely bad for the game.

[Anyes_Eristan]

No need to speculate, it is absolutely true that stacking XP stones would create extremely problematic behavior for the long-term health of the game. We don't have plans to change the way these stones work, but if we did, offering further opportunity to hoard them would not likely be something we would pursue.

Would love it if I could feed them to sentient gems. Altoholism is a terrible drug.

[blarhblarhblarh]

LOL, I knew it would happen because players with daily gold dice always complain about the lack of space to store the xp stones. This was even one of the reasons I dropped the vip, if they are "giving" me something they must provide the space to store it.

[Stoner81]

Again the issue is not being able to get a level from them, it never was and you can tell that by the low value of the gems they'd be more than happy for someone to dump that many shards to try and get enough XP for even just one life.

The issue is duping for sure. There are players out there who given 2 15,000 XP stones could literally turn them into infinite XP quickly and easily. Granted they at BTA so at least you don't end up with an extension of the duped Otto's problem but for the players who can do that could literally run a full completionist from scratch to done without ever running a quest. That for sure is a problem.

Imagine being able to advertise selling a full completionist toon/account that doesn't have any gear but has a "done" character. It's not really a thing now because the work to make one represents many hours of quest running even using duped box stones so the price you would have to put on it to be "worth it" is a price nobody would pay. Turn that process into something like 2 or 3 hours total though and suddenly you can price point it to a point where they are sold. That would be extremely bad for the game.

That would take 254 gems per life to achieve and we can only hold up to 160 items at once in inventory (if my maths is right, could well be wrong). Add the time to eat them all etc and it would take what would seem like forever to do that.

I know they don't like exploits etc but this constant fear of it is getting beyond tiresome now.

Stoner81.

[Isolani]

I'm not concerned about having too many gold roll xp gems. If I'm getting too many I just eat them. I only really like to save enough to start at L3 on a TR, so I save at least 32k xp worth, anything beyond that I eat now.

[Zavina]

Here is how to make it awesome and reuse a lot of existing code:

Add a new currency type: Banked XP.
It's an server wide currency, just like Astral Shards.
Stick it on the Character sheet with an XP graphic next to it.

Gold and Silver rolls no longer grant you the stones directly, they update the Banked XP currency, just like Astral Shards does. (Yes I do know the item appears briefly in your inventory and is auto consumed).

To gain the XP on a character: Click on the XP symbol on the character sheet for your Banked XP currency slot. This pops up the type in a number dialog and then type in how much you want to gain and hit OK. Confirm this with the existing gain XP dialog.
.

I like this idea. This would be awesome. Though I'd suggest a separate UI, that has a "hole" similar to a sentient feeder. Hit the button to feed the xp, and it drops it in adding to the "banked" total; and put it as an option to purchase from the DDO Store. Thus it fulfills two criteria.

1) It's a marketable item that requires players to spend money to purchase.
2) It's something that long term players want, and helps with our storage tetris.