So, how do we give this game more life?

[fatherpirate]

DISCLAIMER - there are a ton of copyright rules/laws and so forth that
prevent companies from using unsolicited materials to prevent lawsuits.
So all of my suggestions will be very generic to avoid this issue.

Noted - a bunch of folks will complain that this is a waste of time
because they can fix the issue by getting all of their friends to come back
to the game (thousands of friends apparently) as long as they fix
so and so (change the game to their liking).
--- ah, years later ... not working. But keep inviting those friends anyways.

"So, how do you give this game more life?"

-----> without killing the game engine.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re-brand the Game.
Re-branding --- changing the look and feel of a product without fundamentally
changing the product.

Change how the game looks
Change how the game feels
Modernize it in ways that will not stress out the old game engine.

Step 1
Change the name of the game and change/freshen up the game logo.
Like Dungeons & Dragons Online ---> Dungeons & Dragons Online [insert catchy word]
like REBORN or UNDYING etc...

Step 2
Add ALLIANCES <--- allow guilds to join with other guilds and form alliances
complete with an alliance name and a alliance chat channel. Also, if your in an
alliance, when you go to an airship terminal, you get to choose which ship
in your Alliance FLEET you want to visit. [shared guild ships] {New FEEL}
This will also have the benefit of making it easier to form raids and find folks
to go into dungeons with you.

Step 3
Add cut scene interactions WITH voice overs on major Dungeon quest CHAINS.
Just the big chains and mega dungeons, leave the side dungeons as is.
This will give the game a more modern feel.

Step 4
Give various races racial identity. A druid wolf for a Drow should LOOK different from
a wolf a halfling uses. IN other words - mounts and wolf/iron defender/undead summons
should have a specific look based of the race of the summoner. [New look and feel]

Step 5 Hirelings --- give them all a once over and add in races that were
excluded because they were added to the game later.

Step 6 skins and textures --- all dungeons and frankly everything in game
is a model with a skin. Time to freshen up those textures. Add some new skins for
certain mobs and their bosses - purely cosmetic.

Step 7 - if possible, get rid of the zoning in the major city (you should be able to walk from
harbor to market without a load screen) [modern game look]

Step 8 - new background music, also new battle music for fights

THAT IS IT.

This is the nature of re-branding.

and it will bring in, not only older players looking to check out the new game version,
but most importantly - honest to goodness NEW PLAYERS.

ok, off my soap box.

[krimsonrane]

VR. DDO in VR would be awesome. I've read of at least one person here who has done it.
Movie style story scenes for sure. At least one with every update. Enough to make a whole film at some point.

A D&D film is supposed to be coming out. I hear they spent a fortune on it. Be ready to become "That Game" for D&D players.
Piggyback on LOTRO. They also have a 500 million dollar film investment coming out. Do cross promotions.

Have a DDO commercial contest. Winner gets a nice cash prize + game perks and DDO get all rights to the project. Then blast it out everywhere.
Get a high profile person to livestream themselves playing DDO for a week. Maybe incorporate regular streamers and just bring in special guests. Strimtom, Will Smith, and Bill Nye the Science guy 3 man Tempest Spine!

Make existing players so happy with QoL and the game that they invite all kinds of folks.
Offer a cash incentive/perks for subscription referrals.

[Arthuvin]

Step 7 - if possible, get rid of the zoning in the major city (you should be able to walk from
harbor to market without a load screen) [modern game look]



I Tottaly Agree with step 7. To be able to walk stormreach quarters withoud loading screens would be a nice improvement.

I add something else: Public Wilderness Slayer areas. The possibility to walk on slayer areas, like the Cerulean Hills for example, without necessarily being in a party - to see other players walking up to dungeons there and killing mobs. Of course this would need the functionallity of respawning mobs at the correct rate at that area. It is a thing modern mmos have.

[Katalissa]

Of all the posts you've made, this has got to be the one that makes the most sense, or at least that I agree with the most.

A whole fresh look and re-branding is definitely a good idea. I mean, this is D&D, which has never been more popular, and this is the ONLY D&D MMO that has mechanics even VAGUELY like the PnP version. Honestly, in what nightmarish alternate reality are we living in where a "Dungeons & Dragons MMO" is not THE most popular fantasy MMO out there?!?

Guild Alliances is a great idea. There are a few guilds I consider myself informally allied to already. (You know who you are). I'd love to see a more formal system implemented. Auto-invite to airship should maybe be something the leader can decide but overall it would be a good thing.

Cut Scenes - I mean we know everyone's gonna skip them eventually, but for the new player, sure. TBH I think more an attempt to tie in some of the stories and make the overall progression and "what to do next" more obvious for the new player would help. The new player runs Korthos, which is quite well designed (or rather was until the first NPC they meet is a guy suggesting they go to the the Borderlands). Then they drop in Stormreach and are totally lost for what to do next.

The one thing I would add is new paths. The whole thing needs to be redesigned. Honestly, open it up to a player competition. Get builds submitted. Take votes on the best. Incorporate them. A new player shouldn't be expected to master current DDO character building, but neither should be be horribly nerfed because they choose a pre-made build at the start... It should be a viable option!

[TFerguson]

VR. DDO in VR would be awesome. I've read of at least one person here who has done it.
Movie style story scenes for sure. At least one with every update. Enough to make a whole film at some point.

A D&D film is supposed to be coming out. I hear they spent a fortune on it. Be ready to become "That Game" for D&D players.
Piggyback on LOTRO. They also have a 500 million dollar film investment coming out. Do cross promotions.

Have a DDO commercial contest. Winner gets a nice cash prize + game perks and DDO get all rights to the project. Then blast it out everywhere.
Get a high profile person to livestream themselves playing DDO for a week. Maybe incorporate regular streamers and just bring in special guests. Strimtom, Will Smith, and Bill Nye the Science guy 3 man Tempest Spine!

Make existing players so happy with QoL and the game that they invite all kinds of folks.
Offer a cash incentive/perks for subscription referrals.

LOLz . . . this is based on 3.5. DDO is too old to be the "it" D&D game.

[Oxarhamar]

LOLz . . . this is based on 3.5. DDO is too old to be the "it" D&D game.

No one really cares what version D&D a game is based on ultimately

[Oxarhamar]

DISCLAIMER - there are a ton of copyright rules/laws and so forth that
prevent companies from using unsolicited materials to prevent lawsuits.
So all of my suggestions will be very generic to avoid this issue.

Noted - a bunch of folks will complain that this is a waste of time
because they can fix the issue by getting all of their friends to come back
to the game (thousands of friends apparently) as long as they fix
so and so (change the game to their liking).
--- ah, years later ... not working. But keep inviting those friends anyways.

"So, how do you give this game more life?"

-----> without killing the game engine.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re-brand the Game.
Re-branding --- changing the look and feel of a product without fundamentally
changing the product.

Change how the game looks
Change how the game feels
Modernize it in ways that will not stress out the old game engine.

Step 1
Change the name of the game and change/freshen up the game logo.
Like Dungeons & Dragons Online ---> Dungeons & Dragons Online [insert catchy word]
like REBORN or UNDYING etc...

Step 2
Add ALLIANCES <--- allow guilds to join with other guilds and form alliances
complete with an alliance name and a alliance chat channel. Also, if your in an
alliance, when you go to an airship terminal, you get to choose which ship
in your Alliance FLEET you want to visit. [shared guild ships] {New FEEL}
This will also have the benefit of making it easier to form raids and find folks
to go into dungeons with you.

Step 3
Add cut scene interactions WITH voice overs on major Dungeon quest CHAINS.
Just the big chains and mega dungeons, leave the side dungeons as is.
This will give the game a more modern feel.

Step 4
Give various races racial identity. A druid wolf for a Drow should LOOK different from
a wolf a halfling uses. IN other words - mounts and wolf/iron defender/undead summons
should have a specific look based of the race of the summoner. [New look and feel]

Step 5 Hirelings --- give them all a once over and add in races that were
excluded because they were added to the game later.

Step 6 skins and textures --- all dungeons and frankly everything in game
is a model with a skin. Time to freshen up those textures. Add some new skins for
certain mobs and their bosses - purely cosmetic.

Step 7 - if possible, get rid of the zoning in the major city (you should be able to walk from
harbor to market without a load screen) [modern game look]

Step 8 - new background music, also new battle music for fights

THAT IS IT.

This is the nature of re-branding.

and it will bring in, not only older players looking to check out the new game version,
but most importantly - honest to goodness NEW PLAYERS.

ok, off my soap box.

Rebranding is not going to do anything without adverts & adverts can be done without the rebranding

Step 4 BIG NO the game doesn’t need more cut scenes it needs less it needs to be a game that is less like other copy paste games adding more cutscenes just kills immersive mess of playing because you go from active playing to passive watching and waiting

None of these chances will bring new players without advertising

Sounds more like you want to play WOW

[TFerguson]

No one really cares what version D&D a game is based on ultimately

Nonsense.

[Deslen]

There are a lot of great suggestions here! Most of it I agree with.

You can easily add a "skip cutscenes" option for more seasoned players.



LOLz . . . this is based on 3.5. DDO is too old to be the "it" D&D game.

While you are technically correct, there are plenty of ways to refute that.

First off, lore. All the new lore we've been getting has been based of 5e, from monsters to races. The racial abilities and enhancements? Straight out of 5e.

As far as 5e goes, it would implement *horribly* into an MMO. Sure, you can make it work with games like Baldur's Gate 3, but in MMO's people want big numbers and a ton of magic items. (You can only attune yourself to 3 magic items in 5e, and your stats max out at 20!)

As much as a bastard amalgamation of editions as DDO is, it makes a lot of sense for an MMO. This coming from a diehard 3.5e playplayer.

[MyStiK-GaMeR]

Top issue is lag and SSG working on it.

Customer Service issues is also a huge problem. Again we know SSG is working on a new interface to help do this more efficiently increasing the quality of service.

DDO is a dopamine inducing machine and when a guy loses his +8 supreme for 'x' months it has this odd cooling effect on that dopamine releasing process.

SSG could create some additional skins when they update the UI for HD, it would be nice to have some skin options without relying on third party creators.

My guess is there are 3 reasons Hardcore is successful. 1. Many people to group with, 2. Everyone is on level ground, 3. It's dangerous and exciting, but 2& 3 are pro/con and 1 is something they could replicate by making a new server which all toons can be transferred to for free. Everyone who wants grouping would transfer to the new server, other people who don't transfer maybe mad but they have the option to transfer for free. Losing your guild ship is a small price to pay to have a much larger active public grouping scene IMO.

As a community of fans of the game we should also consider how we personally can help the game. Veteran players should be emulating Voodo and Strimtom in regards to our interactions with new players. Perhaps create or get involved in a newb friendly guild, host teaching raids, run first lifer toons that don't make everyone in the group feel like trash.

[Oxarhamar]

Nonsense.

I agree that what version of DND a video game based on matters is nonsense if anyone was looking for a particular version they would just go play pnp

There are probably more players here that would argue DDO is not 3.5 or even DND anymore

It doesn’t really matter what edition it’s the game that matters

[Nugaot]

Step 4 BIG NO the game doesn’t need more cut scenes it needs less it needs to be a game that is less like other copy paste games adding more cutscenes just kills immersive mess of playing because you go from active playing to passive watching and waiting


I completely agree. It has nothing to do with being a “seasoned vet”, I hate cutscenes in every game they’re present in, and tenfold moreso for cutscenes in an MMO. In 30+ years of gaming I cannot remember a single cutscene aside from maybe something like the Skyrim cart ride from the beginning, and only because it was a meme. They’re typically poorly directed with confused voice actors, and take up millions in the budget to pay for that I’d rather see used on actual gameplay. I like DDO because it respects me enough to not put a silly little movie in front of me every 15 minutes like I’m some sort of idiot baby.

[archest]

cross server access to AH 's and lfm's

[Nebless]

I add something else: Public Wilderness Slayer areas. The possibility to walk on slayer areas, like the Cerulean Hills for example, without necessarily being in a party - to see other players walking up to dungeons there and killing mobs.

That features already in the game and has been for years. Take a close look at the window that pops up when you get ready to enter a wilderness area. There's a spot on there where you can choose for it to be a private or public instance.

[Nebless]

Number One thing that would help: ADERTISING!

I don't know how many posts I've seen that say 'this game is still going?' or even 'why haven't I ever heard about this game?'.

A basic advertising campaign would do wonders for the game.

-Cut Scene's:

I'm not sure what would even be in one. I play SWTOR and it has cut scene's where a reply (that generally has some kind of story effect) is needed to push the story along.

For DDO? 'I want you to go kill a ghost', 'OK'. Not much of a reason for a cut scene. I can't think of any reason to add them. Could you maybe give an example where / what one would be.

As to the other suggestions. Sure, all pretty good idea's, although unless you're going to add somekind of Alliance buff's too I'm not sure what purpose they'd serve.

[Oxarhamar]

I completely agree. It has nothing to do with being a “seasoned vet”, I hate cutscenes in every game they’re present in, and tenfold moreso for cutscenes in an MMO. In 30+ years of gaming I cannot remember a single cutscene aside from maybe something like the Skyrim cart ride from the beginning, and only because it was a meme. They’re typically poorly directed with confused voice actors, and take up millions in the budget to pay for that I’d rather see used on actual gameplay. I like DDO because it respects me enough to not put a silly little movie in front of me every 15 minutes like I’m some sort of idiot baby.


Thank you

I remember the cutscene from UO

It’s only purpose was to establish lore for why there was multiple servers they called shards

Even worse are the playable cutscene games like God of War where you just mash a button when it pops up as you watch the game play

[Oxarhamar]

Number One thing that would help: ADERTISING!

I don't know how many posts I've seen that say 'this game is still going?' or even 'why haven't I ever heard about this game?'.

A basic advertising campaign would do wonders for the game.

-Cut Scene's:

I'm not sure what would even be in one. I play SWTOR and it has cut scene's where a reply (that generally has some kind of story effect) is needed to push the story along.

For DDO? 'I want you to go kill a ghost', 'OK'. Not much of a reason for a cut scene. I can't think of any reason to add them. Could you maybe give an example where / what one would be.

As to the other suggestions. Sure, all pretty good idea's, although unless you're going to add somekind of Alliance buff's too I'm not sure what purpose they'd serve.

Yep that’s the #1

[Arthuvin]

That features already in the game and has been for years. Take a close look at the window that pops up when you get ready to enter a wilderness area. There's a spot on there where you can choose for it to be a private or public instance.

I dind't mean that. What I wanted to mean is like this.

Imagine u want to enter Cerulean Hills without being in a party and see other players in there. As if u were in the harbor, but it is an adventure area. With mobs and rares respawning from time to time.
Of course in my suggestion I put this "default instance" as an option, giving the players to still enter it in a private party innstance if they want to.

[Certon]

DISCLAIMER - there are a ton of copyright rules/laws and so forth that
prevent companies from using unsolicited materials to prevent lawsuits.
So all of my suggestions will be very generic to avoid this issue.

Noted - a bunch of folks will complain that this is a waste of time
because they can fix the issue by getting all of their friends to come back
to the game (thousands of friends apparently) as long as they fix
so and so (change the game to their liking).
--- ah, years later ... not working. But keep inviting those friends anyways.

"So, how do you give this game more life?"

-----> without killing the game engine.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re-brand the Game.
Re-branding --- changing the look and feel of a product without fundamentally
changing the product.

Change how the game looks
Change how the game feels
Modernize it in ways that will not stress out the old game engine.

Step 1
Change the name of the game and change/freshen up the game logo.
Like Dungeons & Dragons Online ---> Dungeons & Dragons Online [insert catchy word]
like REBORN or UNDYING etc...

Step 2
Add ALLIANCES <--- allow guilds to join with other guilds and form alliances
complete with an alliance name and a alliance chat channel. Also, if your in an
alliance, when you go to an airship terminal, you get to choose which ship
in your Alliance FLEET you want to visit. [shared guild ships] {New FEEL}
This will also have the benefit of making it easier to form raids and find folks
to go into dungeons with you.

Step 3
Add cut scene interactions WITH voice overs on major Dungeon quest CHAINS.
Just the big chains and mega dungeons, leave the side dungeons as is.
This will give the game a more modern feel.

Step 4
Give various races racial identity. A druid wolf for a Drow should LOOK different from
a wolf a halfling uses. IN other words - mounts and wolf/iron defender/undead summons
should have a specific look based of the race of the summoner. [New look and feel]

Step 5 Hirelings --- give them all a once over and add in races that were
excluded because they were added to the game later.

Step 6 skins and textures --- all dungeons and frankly everything in game
is a model with a skin. Time to freshen up those textures. Add some new skins for
certain mobs and their bosses - purely cosmetic.

Step 7 - if possible, get rid of the zoning in the major city (you should be able to walk from
harbor to market without a load screen) [modern game look]

Step 8 - new background music, also new battle music for fights

THAT IS IT.

This is the nature of re-branding.

and it will bring in, not only older players looking to check out the new game version,
but most importantly - honest to goodness NEW PLAYERS.

ok, off my soap box.

#7 is my favorite. Larger public spaces. I'm sure it's a texture loading issue, because off the top of my head, I can think of 65534 different ways to make quest entrances fit within 2 bytes. :)

They need to have the texture sets of all adjacent zones to the current zone in order for zone-free to work properly, and that gets a bit memory intensive right away, unless all adjacent zones are initially very simple, low res textures until you cross over into the zone proper. Crossing from one zone to another would need to use all the tricks from the 'loading screen not looking like a loading screen' book--blind corners, dense fog, elevators, etc.

[krimsonrane]

LOLz . . . this is based on 3.5. DDO is too old to be the "it" D&D game.

You know how it goes. Everything old becomes new again. It's all in the sell.

[krimsonrane]

I completely agree. It has nothing to do with being a “seasoned vet”, I hate cutscenes in every game they’re present in, and tenfold moreso for cutscenes in an MMO. In 30+ years of gaming I cannot remember a single cutscene aside from maybe something like the Skyrim cart ride from the beginning, and only because it was a meme. They’re typically poorly directed with confused voice actors, and take up millions in the budget to pay for that I’d rather see used on actual gameplay. I like DDO because it respects me enough to not put a silly little movie in front of me every 15 minutes like I’m some sort of idiot baby.

Like MOTD. All you have to do is hit enter to quit a cutscene.

[TFerguson]

I agree that what version of DND a video game based on matters is nonsense if anyone was looking for a particular version they would just go play pnp

There are probably more players here that would argue DDO is not 3.5 or even DND anymore

It doesn’t really matter what edition it’s the game that matters

Absolute nonsense.

[Bjond]

A D&D film is supposed to be coming out. I hear they spent a fortune on it. Be ready to become "That Game" for D&D players. Piggyback on LOTRO. They also have a 500 million dollar film investment coming
If you want to tap into the newest/latest movie craze (which likely won't happen for D&D, but likely will for Tolkien), art is paramount, especially CHARACTER art. The game has to support making characters that LOOK at least thematically similar to the movie characters. This is a major issue for DDO, which has horrific character art that can't be customized.

This is not an engine issue. This is a bad artist issue. It even had ugly character art at release compared to other MMOs of the same era. The problem continues to this day with races like Tiefling that look like they have a set of plastic horns glued to the forehead of a human and Shifters that look like escapees from Planet of the Apes.

It could be that the artists are great and there's a 100% bona-fide credentialed aesthetic imbecile perched on DDO forcing this junk on the game. Or perhaps WOTC has "art approval" power and is using it to try to weasel out of licensing they don't like by picking ugly art. Doesn't really matter, the art will chase new people away that are expecting something at least as good as a 2008 MMO; eg. google Aion for some truly beautiful character art & customization.

Even EQ1 characters are more artistic than DDO's.


VR. DDO in VR would be awesome.

-----> without killing the game engine.
VR is a trade-show gimmick that will take a decade to become viable for mass-market home gaming and is highly unlikely to ever become viable for MMOs due to human biology: humans can't tolerate long VR sessions. Think 15~20m at best for most, though IMHO that's for 1st-person POV. I'd bet 3rd person sessions using the VR interface for a "bigger" screen could run longer, maybe even MMO-long.

Updates without killing the engine are certainly possible. IIRC, SSG updated LOTRO with a scaling UI. This is the minimum requirement for "modernization". It has to support common HW in use right now, which means UWHD and 4K+ screens and adapt itself to any aspect ratio. This also permits the 3~4 people dead set on using VR in an MMO to make that work, too.

[Ulfo]

Nonsense.

But true.

[Artos_Fabril]

VR. DDO in VR would be awesome.
That sounds like a literal nightmare. The first time you encounter an air elemental, to say nothing of Sorjak or the Stormreaver, your entire VR play area covered in vomit.

[spifflove]

The game is old and “uncool.” My son won’t play it because it is inhabited by “creepy old men.” So it is. Only fix other than minor art and interface changes is a genius ad campaign that can target “creepy old men” with very high IQ’s required to play this complex game.

Imagine if an email or pop up said Leeroy Jenkins here inviting you to join Hard Core league which runs for a limited time!

DDO it takes a long licken but keeps on chicken!

[Oxarhamar]

Absolute nonsense.

Absolute fact

[Nugaot]

Like MOTD. All you have to do is hit enter to quit a cutscene.

It's like your eyes glazed over reading my actual point. Wow, great, they put a big expensive skip button in for MOTU. I don't know what it cost to do the animation, lighting, rigging, sound design, music, and voice acting but it certainly couldn't have been cheap. I'd rather that work go toward the actual game I like playing, and not into a dumb 3 minute long cutscene that I'll watch once, then skip every subsequent time.

[GODDEATH]

things in thread i liked without remaking/adding to older content,

guild alliances, to access other ships buffs or help level up, also to be listed in guilds list for raiding opportunities! great idea! bigger communities

you know how borderlands has the loot chest for twitch chat..something like that for ddo!
Or streamer Weapon glamour auras earned from watching...or Custom something.
more love to get viewers and community + more channels, i look for streamers on my server so it can rule out the most popular sometimes , bigger community streaming always good! any incentive can go along way!

Maybe a daily, Random LFG reward?
click button to quick join a RANDOM LFG (non raid) in your level range finish quest earn a "special chest" Loot TBD or an extra daily Silver dice roll?
Mainly to encourage joining a group and meet new adventurers, this can help be the daily incentive to at least run a group dungeon!
win - win (also free teleport to quest entrance when u click)

not top of list but worthy of mention:
old quests new background music, cue battle scene ect would be nice though, perhaps a contest or something from the player base?

and keep making good quests!
i just got feywild and saltmarsh thanks to discounts.. really love the adventures, quests and all of it.
usually there are 1 -2 quests i tend to get lost too easily or miss a quest objective after an hour of looking even with a wiki (RAVENLOFT still luv ya) but not these 2 packs. i found that very refreshing, rather have a harder fight then a maze :)

Add a Gold Dice Roll to certain loot tables -
lots of options here to get more plays in areas or general LOOT hype. maybe it moves around weekly to certain zones/packs/quests loot tables..or only slayer areas, or ONLY breakables everywhere, or any tables with named , a lil gold dice 1 use to loots yes pls. even if i roll a 1, i will smile :)

changes to ease inventory always appreciated! Pack rats!
a closet/wardrobe tab for all cosmetics , my clothes are just thrown everywhere right meow!

i forgot a few more ideas somewhere.....goes back to wizards tower to rummage

[Yokido]

Games sometimes must die.

[magaiti]

Games sometimes must die.
You Monster

[Yokido]

>_>

Look if they wanted my gamership they knew how to keep it.

[PaddyMaxson]

Step 1
Change the name of the game and change/freshen up the game logo.
Like Dungeons & Dragons Online ---> Dungeons & Dragons Online [insert catchy word]
like REBORN or UNDYING etc...


Maybe
Dungeons & Dragons Online: Stormreach
Dungeons & Dragons Online: Eberron Unlimited

:)

In all seriousness, DDO needs a bunch of QoL Features/upgrades but it won't get them or will get them very slowly because it's obviously on a pretty tight budget. It sucks but that's why I'm not playing it right now, I took a multi-year break and came back, and I'm taking another now, we'll see if DDO has more basic MMO bits in another 3-5 years I guess.

[Deslen]

>_>

Look if they wanted my gamership they knew how to keep it.

Seriously? You don't play the game, but you stick around on the forums to discourage it and others?

Why don't you find something enjoyable to do with your life? Or is harassing others the only pleasure you have?

Pathetic.

[archest]

>_>

Look if they wanted my gamership they knew how to keep it.

true, very true, some people don't have a clue.

[archest]

Games sometimes must die.

is it just a game?

[mcschaab]

is it just a game?
Like most gamers, I enjoy many games. I have always come back to ddo.
One of my favorite games was city of heros. There are a lot of ideas from the past that would still draw a crowds today and bring new life to the game.
1. Get rid of in game voice chat.
2. Server specific raids(more then 12 people)
3. Being able to fight npc's daily in public areas(like the dragon in the market when entering gianthold or npc's start attacking.)
4. What ever happened to the players council?
5. Destroy an area like the tent event an have zombies every where. It worked for call of duty.
6. Make my triple completionist the boss and let me wipe out parties.
7. Let players be in game devs for quests. Slowing the game down and making dungeons take days instead of mins. or secs to complete.
After all it is just a game, but I have had fun these last 16 years playing.

[Raithe]

1. Get rid of in game voice chat.
2. Server specific raids(more then 12 people)
3. Being able to fight npc's daily in public areas(like the dragon in the market when entering gianthold or npc's start attacking.)
4. What ever happened to the players council?
5. Destroy an area like the tent event an have zombies every where. It worked for call of duty.
6. Make my triple completionist the boss and let me wipe out parties.
7. Let players be in game devs for quests. Slowing the game down and making dungeons take days instead of mins. or secs to complete.


This has got to be the worst list of so-called improvements to the game I have ever seen. It makes me wonder if you were being sarcastic.

1. Huh? That's an improvement?
2. At no time was D&D ever about more than 2 to roughly 8 player characters accomplishing something together. Raiding is one of the banes of DDO's existence. Casual players do not raid much, nor do they like the inequality it creates, and bringing life to an existing game is all about the new and casual player experience.
3. They moved from large MMO-like public events to instanced activities like Crystal Cove and Night Revels because of the gruesome lag monster. Those were improvements.
4. I am fairly sure the player's council didn't work out, and even if it had worked, people grow up and move on with their lives.
5. See #3, large public events are not what keep people playing in any playstyle.
6. Your triple completionist most likely has something less than 10k hit points, which would be one of the squishiest bosses anyone at end game would likely face.
7. Slow the game down? Take a look at Elden Ring, which got a 97% critic rating amongst gaming sites and ask yourself if any boss in DDO moves as fast.



After all it is just a game, but I have had fun these last 16 years playing.

It isn't just a game, singular. It tried to be about 4 games at start and has branched out from there. It would have done better if it had just been D&D and nothing else. I bought it because I thought it was going to be a first-person shooter version of D&D.

[fatherpirate]

Rebranding is not going to do anything without adverts & adverts can be done without the rebranding

Step 4 BIG NO the game doesn’t need more cut scenes it needs less it needs to be a game that is less like other copy paste games adding more cutscenes just kills immersive mess of playing because you go from active playing to passive watching and waiting

None of these chances will bring new players without advertising

Sounds more like you want to play WOW

YES, adverts would also be required and an integral part of any rebranding campaign.
Kinda goes without saying, but yes ... need advertising to sell it.

[fatherpirate]

The key to making advertisement work.

Advertisement has the most impact with a new product or a new version of a product.

When WOW comes out with a NEW version/chapter/whatever THEN they advertise heavily because
that is WHEN it is most useful. They even remake and rename the game basically every time they
have a big drop. World of Warcraft Shadowlands (with new logo) or World of Warcraft Burning Crusade (with new logo)

If DDO just advertised and changed absolutely nothing, it would be a waste of money.
Oh, that old tired game .... pass. (the DLC drops are not going to cut it either, none of them
fundamentally change the game or how it looks or how it is played [not new enough] )

Total Re-Branding + Advertising works.

As for cut scenes, ya ... click and skip if you want.
But they are there for RP folks and NEW PLAYERS.

{any complaint} is of absolutely no use to VETERAN players.
Bringing in NEW players has nothing to do with veteran players.
nuff said

[Oxarhamar]

This has got to be the worst list of so-called improvements to the game I have ever seen. It makes me wonder if you were being sarcastic.

1. Huh? That's an improvement?
2. At no time was D&D ever about more than 2 to roughly 8 player characters accomplishing something together. Raiding is one of the banes of DDO's existence. Casual players do not raid much, nor do they like the inequality it creates, and bringing life to an existing game is all about the new and casual player experience.
3. They moved from large MMO-like public events to instanced activities like Crystal Cove and Night Revels because of the gruesome lag monster. Those were improvements.
4. I am fairly sure the player's council didn't work out, and even if it had worked, people grow up and move on with their lives.
5. See #3, large public events are not what keep people playing in any playstyle.
6. Your triple completionist most likely has something less than 10k hit points, which would be one of the squishiest bosses anyone at end game would likely face.
7. Slow the game down? Take a look at Elden Ring, which got a 97% critic rating amongst gaming sites and ask yourself if any boss in DDO moves as fast.



It isn't just a game, singular. It tried to be about 4 games at start and has branched out from there. It would have done better if it had just been D&D and nothing else. I bought it because I thought it was going to be a first-person shooter version of D&D.

Agreed In game chat could be better but remove it solves nothing players should not have to go 3rd party for chat

[Cybersquirt]

OP: Get SSG to acknowledge DDO is equal to LOTRO.

[fatherpirate]

OP: Get SSG to acknowledge DDO is equal to LOTRO.

sorry, they will not.
BECAUSE - LOTRO makes more money.

When a game manufacturer says 'This game is a labor of love !'
That is total BS, it is a MONEY MACHINE.
Any love a developer had for a game usually dies 2 weeks
into typing non-stop repetitive code/programing that needs to be
debugged over and over again.

BUSINESS
BUSINESS
BUSINESS
BUSINESS

The Micro second that SSG calculates that it can make more money by having the employees
running DDO switch to something else ... they will pull the plug.

End of story.

Do not confuse your love of an IP with the love of money businesses have
that are using that IP to fleece your wallet.

[Yokido]

is it just a game?

Yes.

[Oxarhamar]

sorry, they will not.
BECAUSE - LOTRO makes more money.

When a game manufacturer says 'This game is a labor of love !'
That is total BS, it is a MONEY MACHINE.
Any love a developer had for a game usually dies 2 weeks
into typing non-stop repetitive code/programing that needs to be
debugged over and over again.

BUSINESS
BUSINESS
BUSINESS
BUSINESS

The Micro second that SSG calculates that it can make more money by having the employees
running DDO switch to something else ... they will pull the plug.

End of story.

Do not confuse your love of an IP with the love of money businesses have
that are using that IP to fleece your wallet.

Being a business adverts is the way to get new players

all other suggestions are personal changes which a new player will not even know about since they will not know the game existed

The opportunity for new players was to widely advertise the Free content codes

[Arthuvin]

Being a business adverts is the way to get new players

all other suggestions are personal changes which a new player will not even know about since they will not know the game existed

The opportunity for new players was to widely advertise the Free content codes

I agree. It is very important to ad. I discovered this game searching for a new mmo on steam when I quit wow - Good thing it is on steam. But maybe the company could make some campaigns on google.

I'd like to take advantage of the post to reinforce my suggestion to unite the districts of Stormreach without a loading screen.

To be more ambitious in my request, Cerulean Hills could be make a public slayer area without loading screens, linked directly to the Harbour.
The same way, the Searing Heights could be made a public slayer area linked directly to the Marketplace without a loading screen.
Those changes would be a immersive improvement.

[KoobTheProud]

The biggest way to give DDO new life is Classic servers.

Every other successful MMO on the market has done this at one point or another when the current iteration of the game just wasn't drawing enough customers. It's a prime way to get new customers to take a look and to bring back old customers who have moved on for [insert reason here].

My version of Classic would be the version that launched with the reboot to F2P in 2009.

Of course people will say "but that destroys all the work I have put into my characters!" Which is not true as long as people are still willing to play Retail after Classic launches. If people aren't willing to play Retail at that point - well the game was definitely dying anyway.

From the perspective of new players who want to play regularly but not fanatically there's nothing wrong with DDO right now that removing about 10 layers of complexity and a 5 year grind requirement would not fix.

[Artos_Fabril]

I'd like to take advantage of the post to reinforce my suggestion to unite the districts of Stormreach without a loading screen.
To be more ambitious in my request...
That's already a pretty ambitious request, since if you just laid the zones making up Stormreach next to each other where they connect on the map, there would be significant overlap. That would mean redesigning everything, or injecting long "alleyways" connecting the existing gates to the existing zone entrances in order to make everything fit.

And that's to say nothing of the performance issues.

[Arthuvin]

That's already a pretty ambitious request, since if you just laid the zones making up Stormreach next to each other where they connect on the map, there would be significant overlap. That would mean redesigning everything, or injecting long "alleyways" connecting the existing gates to the existing zone entrances in order to make everything fit.

And that's to say nothing of the performance issues.

I think this would be a cool feature. Stormreach would be more immersive.

[Artos_Fabril]

I think this would be a cool feature. Stormreach would be more immersive.
I'm not saying that your opinion is wrong.

I just don't think the juice is worth the squeeze, as it were.

But the bigger issue is that getting SSG to even consider this possibility will be a sisyphean task, and then for them to accomplish it, let alone to do so without multiplying lag everywhere in stormreach seems a monumental effort for a minute benefit.

[Oxarhamar]

I'm not saying that your opinion is wrong.

I just don't think the juice is worth the squeeze, as it were.

But the bigger issue is that getting SSG to even consider this possibility will be a sisyphean task, and then for them to accomplish it, let alone to do so without multiplying lag everywhere in stormreach seems a monumental effort for a minute benefit.

This

It would be nice but even if it was possible without the problems it would bring in zero new players they still won’t have any idea it’s more of a QOL for existing players

[SoVeryBelgian]

My 2 cents:

1. Import more classic Modules

2. Work down lag (keep at it)

3. UI Update

4. Storage Update

5. Advertise / Rebrand

6. Graphics update (no need to go balls to the wall, but something better exists texture-wise for sure).

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Long time players should stop forcing Newbies to play like they know everything.

[Cadveen]

They need to refresh all of the Arcane (Wiz/Sorc) spells. Most of them are useless after the game bloated the mobs stats. The new epic destiny system has also made all of the destinies feel generic and DPS focused. I have essentially quit playing the game due to the lackluster feel and bugs of the Magus of the Eclipse. The game just became less fun for some reason. Magister was superior even though you only used the right side of the tree. All of these DC bonuses are now in all of the trees. The fatesinger and primal avatar tree can even get more DCs due to the bonus to stats. I have been VIP since the inception of the game, but will spend money elsewhere until the archmage pass and ultimately spell pass is finally implemented. Once contagion is useful, I will try again. They literally created a whole new spell list (alchemist), so I know they can fix existing spells.

[fatherpirate]

The key point in getting NEW players is to get them
to download the game and make a character.

Improving stuff in game might help in retention but will not.
on its own. get new players. A new player does know about any of that
stuff your improving and even if you explain it, if they have not played yet,
it will make zero sense to them.

DISCLAIMER - I have no idea what the red tape on this idea would
involve because I do not know the business side of STADIA.

SSG might want to explore the possibility of adding DDO
to STADIA's list of games. There is two major advantages to being on STADIA.
1. It is on the cloud so anyone with STADIA could just push the launch
button and try DDO instantly with zero download.
2. People playing on stadia can play DDO with all graphic settings max'd
so new players would be seeing the game at it's best.

(Like I said first, there might be a zillion business reasons why this will not work
so SSG may have already considered it and decided no)

[Weemadarthur]

How to breathe new life into this game:-

1) Spend 3 - 6 months just fixing bugs and improving performance. No content just damage mitigation.

2) Reinvent Korthos to be an actual tutorial. Have new players be able to be guided through the complexities of game play and character design. Have NPC's explain how different aspects of the game work then make them use what they have learned to be able to advance through each quest. Give them pre-built characters for each quest then teach them how the game works. Give them a S&B palli in one then have an NPC teach them attacking & blocking. They then have to fight a boss that needs a set amount of attacks blocked before he becomes vulnerable. Give them a rogue and teach them the arts of stealth and trapfinding before having them sneak through a gauntlet of traps avoiding mobs and/or luring them into the traps. Give them a caster and teach them about buffing and damage casting. Make the mobs resistant to certain spell types so they learn how to bypass DR. Give them a cleric and make them responsible for the healing of an NPC tank. A good tutorial before you create your 1st character would retain a lot more players.

3) Release a high quality classic expansion and advertise both that and the improved "new player friendly" starting area and tutorial.

[GODDEATH]

The key point in getting NEW players is to get them
to download the game and make a character.

Improving stuff in game might help in retention but will not.
on its own. get new players. A new player does know about any of that
stuff your improving and even if you explain it, if they have not played yet,
it will make zero sense to them.

DISCLAIMER - I have no idea what the red tape on this idea would
involve because I do not know the business side of STADIA.

SSG might want to explore the possibility of adding DDO
to STADIA's list of games. There is two major advantages to being on STADIA.
1. It is on the cloud so anyone with STADIA could just push the launch
button and try DDO instantly with zero download.
2. People playing on stadia can play DDO with all graphic settings max'd
so new players would be seeing the game at it's best.

(Like I said first, there might be a zillion business reasons why this will not work
so SSG may have already considered it and decided no)

This suggestion is great! nice to see in thread!

[Artos_Fabril]

Step 1
Change the name of the game and change/freshen up the game logo.
Like Dungeons & Dragons Online ---> Dungeons & Dragons Online [insert catchy word]
like REBORN or UNDYING etc...

Step 2
Add ALLIANCES <--- allow guilds to join with other guilds and form alliances
complete with an alliance name and a alliance chat channel. Also, if your in an
alliance, when you go to an airship terminal, you get to choose which ship
in your Alliance FLEET you want to visit. [shared guild ships] {New FEEL}
This will also have the benefit of making it easier to form raids and find folks
to go into dungeons with you.

Step 3
Add cut scene interactions WITH voice overs on major Dungeon quest CHAINS.
Just the big chains and mega dungeons, leave the side dungeons as is.
This will give the game a more modern feel.

Step 4
Give various races racial identity. A druid wolf for a Drow should LOOK different from
a wolf a halfling uses. IN other words - mounts and wolf/iron defender/undead summons
should have a specific look based of the race of the summoner. [New look and feel]

Step 5 Hirelings --- give them all a once over and add in races that were
excluded because they were added to the game later.

Step 6 skins and textures --- all dungeons and frankly everything in game
is a model with a skin. Time to freshen up those textures. Add some new skins for
certain mobs and their bosses - purely cosmetic.

Step 7 - if possible, get rid of the zoning in the major city (you should be able to walk from
harbor to market without a load screen) [modern game look]

Step 8 - new background music, also new battle music for fights

THAT IS IT.

This is the nature of re-branding.

and it will bring in, not only older players looking to check out the new game version,
but most importantly - honest to goodness NEW PLAYERS.

ok, off my soap box.
So about 2 years ago, I got a friend to join the game. He was really digging playing Pale Master, a little disappointed at how bad the pet was, but generally enjoying the game. He expressed it as "This is what I wanted Everquest to be" in reference to the dungeon narration and overarching story lines. He got as far as 22 on his first life, but his last login was 1 Year 1 Month ago. None of these steps addresses the core issue: DDO has no epic content. It just has higher level content with bigger numbers, but there's nothing epic about it.

[KoobTheProud]

So about 2 years ago, I got a friend to join the game. He was really digging playing Pale Master, a little disappointed at how bad the pet was, but generally enjoying the game. He expressed it as "This is what I wanted Everquest to be" in reference to the dungeon narration and overarching story lines. He got as far as 22 on his first life, but his last login was 1 Year 1 Month ago. None of these steps addresses the core issue: DDO has no epic content. It just has higher level content with bigger numbers, but there's nothing epic about it.

There is also the huge problem of endless grind for real power.

DDO is the first MMO that tried to extend player's power endlessly without diminishing returns and so they have created a meta of methuselahs who can't play with anybody but other methuselahs without making the other party feel essentially useless.

This is why the Classic server idea is so important. SSG needs to give new players a chance to come in the door with a notion that they can build a character that is competitive in a relatively short (1 year timeframe) period. This without grinding 14x7 during that year.

You can talk all you want about viable first life characters. That's not the same thing as having a permanent 50%+ power advantage over even the best 3rd life build.

I think lots of gamers get into the position your friend did, where they have gotten a character into epics and suddenly realize they haven't even scratched the surface of the beginning of the grind.

[Oxarhamar]

The key point in getting NEW players is to get them
to download the game and make a character.

Improving stuff in game might help in retention but will not.
on its own. get new players. A new player does know about any of that
stuff your improving and even if you explain it, if they have not played yet,
it will make zero sense to them.

DISCLAIMER - I have no idea what the red tape on this idea would
involve because I do not know the business side of STADIA.

SSG might want to explore the possibility of adding DDO
to STADIA's list of games. There is two major advantages to being on STADIA.
1. It is on the cloud so anyone with STADIA could just push the launch
button and try DDO instantly with zero download.
2. People playing on stadia can play DDO with all graphic settings max'd
so new players would be seeing the game at it's best.

(Like I said first, there might be a zillion business reasons why this will not work
so SSG may have already considered it and decided no)

That's why they need adverts

[mikarddo]

In my opinion none of the suggestions made in the OP are anywhere near the core issues with DDO.

Imho, those are:

a) Getting above the critical mass where the game does not feel deserted. HCL does this - the regular servers do not. Merging all the current servers OR cross server LFM seems to be the only real option. If new players join the game and find noone to group with and noone around they most likely leave fast.

b) Lag (and some other critical bugs, but mostly lag). If new players join the game and experience significant lag they will leave.

c) The pay wall to get into the game. Purchasing the most recent x-pac should include all previous x-pacs and pacs. Having some of the game available through ftp or piecemeal purchase might seem ok - but in effect it means you need to drop out of groups after you finally find one when the group leader calls something you do not have access to. I lead pug groups alot - quite often the newer players joining end up having to drop when I call a particular pack they dont own - and most often there simply are not any other groups up in that level range so they are left alone.


Once a, b and c have been covered but not a second before - advertising is needed to bring in new players. Unless a, b and c are done first bringing in more people wont help as they will leave fast - with they might stay.

Most of all the issue is that most people want to play new games not old games - so the odds of getting alot of new people to play are anything but good.

[Bjond]

b) Lag (and some other critical bugs, but mostly lag). If new players join the game and experience significant lag they will leave.
I've been saying the same things for a while -- full agreement on your post. This one piece is highlighted because I'd call out a couple other issues after server lag, the first being loading screen hang. Having to back out of game and kill the client for loading screen hang a couple times a session really gives a bad impression, especially when it cuts the newbie off from game chat and prevents asking others for help.

The second is lack of a scaled UI that can handle any aspect ratio. It took me several days of fiddling to get UWHD to work reasonably well, but some fonts still need a microfiche reader. Gotta support common HW out of the box; 4K and UWHD screens are de rigueur.

[Cybersquirt]

sorry, they will not.
BECAUSE - LOTRO makes more money.

When a game manufacturer says 'This game is a labor of love !'
That is total BS, it is a MONEY MACHINE.
Any love a developer had for a game usually dies 2 weeks
into typing non-stop repetitive code/programing that needs to be
debugged over and over again.

BUSINESS
BUSINESS
BUSINESS
BUSINESS

The Micro second that SSG calculates that it can make more money by having the employees
running DDO switch to something else ... they will pull the plug.

End of story.

Do not confuse your love of an IP with the love of money businesses have
that are using that IP to fleece your wallet.

Yeah, but what is "IP" in this instance?

OP: Quit breaking long-established rules. Have items work as advertised. PROVIDE CUSTOMER SUPPORT (esp. to VIP).

[Hobgoblin]

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video_thumb/EUzBq61XQAEFh77.jpg

[ycheese123]

In my opinion none of the suggestions made in the OP are anywhere near the core issues with DDO.

Imho, those are:

a) Getting above the critical mass where the game does not feel deserted. HCL does this - the regular servers do not. Merging all the current servers OR cross server LFM seems to be the only real option. If new players join the game and find noone to group with and noone around they most likely leave fast. I lead pug groups alot - quite often the newer players joining end up having to drop when I call a particular pack they dont own - and most often there simply are not any other groups up in that level range so they are left alone.

b) Lag (and some other critical bugs, but mostly lag). If new players join the game and experience significant lag they will leave.

c) The pay wall to get into the game. Purchasing the most recent x-pac should include all previous x-pacs and pacs. Having some of the game available through ftp or piecemeal purchase might seem ok - but in effect it means you need to drop out of groups after you finally find one when the group leader calls something you do not have access to.

Once a, b and c have been covered but not a second before - advertising is needed to bring in new players. Unless a, b and c are done first bringing in more people wont help as they will leave fast - with they might stay.

Most of all the issue is that most people want to play new games not old games - so the odds of getting alot of new people to play are anything but good.


Agree with a lot of this. The game worlds look deserted. On hardcore, they don't. But remember that HCL is temporary. Every time it goes live, everyone has to start anew. In a sense, if you choose to play HCL and you want the rewards, you are kind of "forced to play", as it is a race against the clock. If you want the rewards you have to keep grinding. These things contribute to the larger amount of players there. Take those factors away and even a single mega-server would look deserted over time I fear. Is it better than having the player base scattered across 7 or 8 servers? Yes, absolutely.

I think this game has 2 big things working against it.

1) It's old. It's a great, great game but it's old. People just don't want to play old games. Exactly as Mikar said. Especially an mmo. It's intimidating to play with people who have 17 years worth of experience and gear.

2) The name and brand. While being a nerd has never been more acceptable, I still feel like to a majority of average people the "Dungeons & Dragons" name is unfortunately a turn off and only stirs up negative connotations of basement dwelling losers. Like, imagine you're out on a date, meeting new people, something like that, and you say you've been playing Elden Ring... that's a big difference versus saying you play Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sounds dumb but the D&D name has 50 years of history attached to it. And while that's obviously a big draw to some people (myself included), we're talking about new players, people who've never played D&D and who'd probably think they have to role play in this game.

[Oxarhamar]

Agree with a lot of this. The game worlds look deserted. On hardcore, they don't. But remember that HCL is temporary. Every time it goes live, everyone has to start anew. In a sense, if you choose to play HCL and you want the rewards, you are kind of "forced to play", as it is a race against the clock. If you want the rewards you have to keep grinding. These things contribute to the larger amount of players there. Take those factors away and even a single mega-server would look deserted over time I fear. Is it better than having the player base scattered across 7 or 8 servers? Yes, absolutely.

I think this game has 2 big things working against it.

1) It's old. It's a great, great game but it's old. People just don't want to play old games. Exactly as Mikar said. Especially an mmo. It's intimidating to play with people who have 17 years worth of experience and gear.

2) The name and brand. While being a nerd has never been more acceptable, I still feel like to a majority of average people the "Dungeons & Dragons" name is unfortunately a turn off and only stirs up negative connotations of basement dwelling losers. Like, imagine you're out on a date, meeting new people, something like that, and you say you've been playing Elden Ring... that's a big difference versus saying you play Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sounds dumb but the D&D name has 50 years of history attached to it. And while that's obviously a big draw to some people (myself included), we're talking about new players, people who've never played D&D and who'd probably think they have to role play in this game.

I don't think that these dated stereotypes are accurate D&D is bigger than ever & tapping into that fan base would be great for the game

Yes cross server or merge will be a great improvement and help with new players so the servers don't feel dead

HcL demonstrates just how well condensed population works

[Artos_Fabril]

I don't think that these dated stereotypes are accurate D&D is bigger than ever & tapping into that fan base would be great for the game
While this is true, the things that have made D&D more popular recently are not things that DDO does well.

Critical Role/Legend of Vox Machina is the most popular D&D related property out there, but that's D&D for theater kids, while DDO is D&D for math nerds. The great thing about D&D is that it has something for both groups, but DDO is not that thing.

[arkonas]

While this is true, the things that have made D&D more popular recently are not things that DDO does well.

Critical Role/Legend of Vox Machina is the most popular D&D related property out there, but that's D&D for theater kids, while DDO is D&D for math nerds. The great thing about D&D is that it has something for both groups, but DDO is not that thing.

you know i was thinking about that and i would love to see some sponsored deals like that work. I understand we had some voice acting from them but what about sponsored plays? reach out to some of those popular streamers or a few who can draw attention to bring in a fresh face. twitch, etc are a real thing but strimtom for example just doesn't have the numbers. Rooster teeth's Let's play or yogscast etc or even Critical role etc. I know there are a ton out there but i think to see some of them play with say an media account or something that can showcase the stuff to new people.

its the reason i always hated wizards of the coast. you know you can find ddo on their site but it's hidden. when neverwinter came out focus went to them. i would just love to see a company actually push stuff they endorse.

[TFerguson]

While this is true, the things that have made D&D more popular recently are not things that DDO does well.

Critical Role/Legend of Vox Machina is the most popular D&D related property out there, but that's D&D for theater kids, while DDO is D&D for math nerds. The great thing about D&D is that it has something for both groups, but DDO is not that thing.

How about default player paths that aren't complete garbage? Can we start with that?

[DirkTyrant]

2 ideas to consider..... BESIDES what we have learned from HC (the more players - the more fun):

1) update the loot gear from old quests..... a LOT of old quests simply aren't run much anymore because the LOOT is trash by today's standards. and fixing that ought to be rather simple. Does anyone farm STK for a Ring of Feathers anymore? and why is the boss in that quest so easy to kill now.... when he used to be so hard?

2) XP scaling for FEWER(thank you Stanis) players in a quest. Since you have a smaller population.... and refuse to merge servers... accept that players are going to have to run quests with fewer than 6 people.... so, reward them for soloing quests.... the fewer the number of players - the MORE xp... and better Loot, too. Go with what the game IS.

[fatherpirate]

Do keep in mind there are 2 main issues, get NEW players

and

Bring back old players besides keeping the current players happy
so they stay here.

--------------------------------------

These are both important but are unrelated.
my OP was aimed at the 1st issue.

I does not make a lot of sense to suggest ignoring the first issue
because centering on the second issue will fix the first one.

It won't.
It is 2 totally different things.

[Bjond]

I don't think that these dated stereotypes are accurate D&D is bigger than ever
Stereotypes unfortunately live until the people that lived through them are dead (that's us btw). The words "D&D" will remain synonymous with "basement-dweller" for at least another 50 years.

DDO's mousy marketing (*squeak* ph33r m3 *squeak*) is a real problem. And, I don't mean just advertising. The entire product needs modern packaging and a few minor updates.

[Artos_Fabril]

How about default player paths that aren't complete garbage? Can we start with that?I don't make the rules. But if I recall correctly, that was on Tolero's agenda (though I forget if it was from the stream or the producer letter)

[Oxarhamar]

Stereotypes unfortunately live until the people that lived through them are dead (that's us btw). The words "D&D" will remain synonymous with "basement-dweller" for at least another 50 years.

DDO's mousy marketing (*squeak* ph33r m3 *squeak*) is a real problem. And, I don't mean just advertising. The entire product needs modern packaging and a few minor updates.

Marketing is nonexistent

Doing interviews with MMO blogs or DDO streamers are the closest thing we get

[Oxarhamar]

Do keep in mind there are 2 main issues, get NEW players

and

Bring back old players besides keeping the current players happy
so they stay here.

--------------------------------------

These are both important but are unrelated.
my OP was aimed at the 1st issue.

I does not make a lot of sense to suggest ignoring the first issue
because centering on the second issue will fix the first one.

It won't.
It is 2 totally different things.

Your OP in no way addressed new players those are all changes to the game which will only be noticed by those who have played already

Bringing new players can only be done by advertising in some way not by any changes within the game itself

[Oxarhamar]

you know i was thinking about that and i would love to see some sponsored deals like that work. I understand we had some voice acting from them but what about sponsored plays? reach out to some of those popular streamers or a few who can draw attention to bring in a fresh face. twitch, etc are a real thing but strimtom for example just doesn't have the numbers. Rooster teeth's Let's play or yogscast etc or even Critical role etc. I know there are a ton out there but i think to see some of them play with say an media account or something that can showcase the stuff to new people.

its the reason i always hated wizards of the coast. you know you can find ddo on their site but it's hidden. when neverwinter came out focus went to them. i would just love to see a company actually push stuff they endorse.

Yep something like this would be great coinciding with the freequest code

& WoTC collaboration

Majority watching existing DDO streamers probably already plays DDO

[Artos_Fabril]

Bringing new players can only be done by advertising in some way not by any changes within the game itself
If you want those new players to stay for more than an hour, there are other issues that need to be addressed. Namely the lag, but the new player experience in general could do with an overhaul, and to the extent possible, graphics are a part of that. New players might not know how bad lag has been in the past, but if they experience stuttering, rubberbanding, and client-server desyncs at the rate we currently are, they likely won't stick around.

Imagine you download a 16 year old "action MMO" where combat is advertised as fluid and mobile, you get into your first real combat after the tutorial quest, and then your character stops responding for 3 seconds, when the client and server sync back up, you're a ghost with no idea how it even happened.

Now imagine that this "free to play MMO" when you die that first time also immediately hits you with with a pop-up to spend real money to continue your quest.

This is the sort of fundamental issue that no amount of advertising will overcome.

[mikarddo]

2) XP scaling for FEWER(thank you Stanis) players in a quest. Since you have a smaller population.... and refuse to merge servers... accept that players are going to have to run quests with fewer than 6 people.... so, reward them for soloing quests.... the fewer the number of players - the MORE xp... and better Loot, too. Go with what the game IS.

That would be outright detrimental. We want to encourage grouping and this suggestion does the very opposite.

If my leveling partner and I got more xp for duoing quests than having more people in the group odds are I wouldnt be posting the group for puggers to join as often - and thus those unable to solo quests would be worse off due to fewer groups being avaible.

[Bjond]

That would be outright detrimental [..] odds are I wouldnt be posting the group for puggers
Yep, XP and Bonuses do matter. One of the weirdest experiences I had in any MMO was from the Newbie XP Bonus in FFXIV. I'd done enough MMOs that I'm inured to the usual "Bah, newbie. You can group with us if you don't ruin our game too much" attitude. In FFXIV, however, a newbie in group (1st char 1st life would be DDO equivalent) grants the entire party or raid a very large XP bonus.

The result is that people are overjoyed at having a newbie in party. It's surreal. People offer you free stuff. Ask you how you like the game? Is there anything they can do to make it more fun? Need help setting up the UI? And it goes on and on. It's like being love-bombed by cultists.

MMO players respond to xp-stimuli quicker and more reliably than lab-rats to cheese.

[mikarddo]

Yep, XP and Bonuses do matter. One of the weirdest experiences I had in any MMO was from the Newbie XP Bonus in FFXIV. I'd done enough MMOs that I'm inured to the usual "Bah, newbie. You can group with us if you don't ruin our game too much" attitude. In FFXIV, however, a newbie in group (1st char 1st life would be DDO equivalent) grants the entire party or raid a very large XP bonus.

The result is that people are overjoyed at having a newbie in party. It's surreal. People offer you free stuff. Ask you how you like the game? Is there anything they can do to make it more fun? Need help setting up the UI? And it goes on and on. It's like being love-bombed by cultists.

MMO players respond to xp-stimuli quicker and more reliably than lab-rats to cheese.

Indeed. The main issue with such a "newbie bonus" though is that some DDO players would simply box a 2nd account with a "newbie" character on it for the large bonus. So, it most definitely would not work well in DDO.

[Yokido]

Store not your riches where they will rot and decay.

If you know you know.

[Oxarhamar]

If you want those new players to stay for more than an hour, there are other issues that need to be addressed. Namely the lag, but the new player experience in general could do with an overhaul, and to the extent possible, graphics are a part of that. New players might not know how bad lag has been in the past, but if they experience stuttering, rubberbanding, and client-server desyncs at the rate we currently are, they likely won't stick around.

Imagine you download a 16 year old "action MMO" where combat is advertised as fluid and mobile, you get into your first real combat after the tutorial quest, and then your character stops responding for 3 seconds, when the client and server sync back up, you're a ghost with no idea how it even happened.

Now imagine that this "free to play MMO" when you die that first time also immediately hits you with with a pop-up to spend real money to continue your quest.

This is the sort of fundamental issue that no amount of advertising will overcome.



Fixing lag is a different issue pertaining to keeping new players it won't bring any in the solution to get new players ramains adverts retention issues need tp be worked on along side of getting new players but without the effort tp get them there wont be many to retain anyways

[Bjond]

main issue with such a "newbie bonus" though is that some DDO players would simply box a 2nd account
FFXIV only gave the newbie bonus for sub'd newbies. If people want to pay for a second account (over and over again) for a newbie bot, I'd be fine with it. I've double boxed a couple times in very old games (eq1 & ffxi). It's too much of a pain to bother with here, though every time I hit heroics I consider making an opener bot (fortunately, that's v.rare).


the solution to get new players ramains adverts
Word of mouth works, too. If DDO was up-to-date in it's packaging and didn't have the other issues in game, I'd have brought in about 6 people. When I tell them what it's like, though, the answer is usually along the lines of "LOL, no".

The biggest issues scaring them off are typically not bugs and lag, though. It's buy-in cost for full access and ongoing costs for "reasonable" play (ie. the astral shard drop-rate "tax").

The non$$ issues I've heard really can't be fixed: constant newbie area replays are a big turn-off as is playing something vastly different from your final build in order to improve your final. One guy is really funny: only plays classes that blow things up. The bigger and louder the explosion, the more he wants to play it. He loved hearing about Meteor Swarm being so loud it annoys teammates. On being told he has to PL as a non-sorc to really make it shine, though, it became "That's dumb."

[Cybersquirt]

DISCLAIMER - there are a ton of copyright rules/laws and so forth that
prevent companies from using unsolicited materials to prevent lawsuits.
So all of my suggestions will be very generic to avoid this issue.

Noted - a bunch of folks will complain that this is a waste of time
because they can fix the issue by getting all of their friends to come back
to the game (thousands of friends apparently) as long as they fix
so and so (change the game to their liking).
--- ah, years later ... not working. But keep inviting those friends anyways.

"So, how do you give this game more life?"

-----> without killing the game engine.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re-brand the Game.
Re-branding --- changing the look and feel of a product without fundamentally
changing the product.

Change how the game looks
Change how the game feels
Modernize it in ways that will not stress out the old game engine.

Step 1
Change the name of the game and change/freshen up the game logo.
Like Dungeons & Dragons Online ---> Dungeons & Dragons Online [insert catchy word]
like REBORN or UNDYING etc...

Step 2
Add ALLIANCES <--- allow guilds to join with other guilds and form alliances
complete with an alliance name and a alliance chat channel. Also, if your in an
alliance, when you go to an airship terminal, you get to choose which ship
in your Alliance FLEET you want to visit. [shared guild ships] {New FEEL}
This will also have the benefit of making it easier to form raids and find folks
to go into dungeons with you.

Step 3
Add cut scene interactions WITH voice overs on major Dungeon quest CHAINS.
Just the big chains and mega dungeons, leave the side dungeons as is.
This will give the game a more modern feel.

Step 4
Give various races racial identity. A druid wolf for a Drow should LOOK different from
a wolf a halfling uses. IN other words - mounts and wolf/iron defender/undead summons
should have a specific look based of the race of the summoner. [New look and feel]

Step 5 Hirelings --- give them all a once over and add in races that were
excluded because they were added to the game later.

Step 6 skins and textures --- all dungeons and frankly everything in game
is a model with a skin. Time to freshen up those textures. Add some new skins for
certain mobs and their bosses - purely cosmetic.

Step 7 - if possible, get rid of the zoning in the major city (you should be able to walk from
harbor to market without a load screen) [modern game look]

Step 8 - new background music, also new battle music for fights

THAT IS IT.

This is the nature of re-branding.

and it will bring in, not only older players looking to check out the new game version,
but most importantly - honest to goodness NEW PLAYERS.

ok, off my soap box.

1. Why would you rebrand a (supposed) classic? Retro-games are, and will always, eventually, become new.

2. The real question is: what does it take to grab someone's attention? See 1.

I humbly suggest you find a few other games to play.

[fatherpirate]

FFXIV only gave the newbie bonus for sub'd newbies. If people want to pay for a second account (over and over again) for a newbie bot, I'd be fine with it. I've double boxed a couple times in very old games (eq1 & ffxi). It's too much of a pain to bother with here, though every time I hit heroics I consider making an opener bot (fortunately, that's v.rare).


Word of mouth works, too. If DDO was up-to-date in it's packaging and didn't have the other issues in game, I'd have brought in about 6 people. When I tell them what it's like, though, the answer is usually along the lines of "LOL, no".

The biggest issues scaring them off are typically not bugs and lag, though. It's buy-in cost for full access and ongoing costs for "reasonable" play (ie. the astral shard drop-rate "tax").

The non$$ issues I've heard really can't be fixed: constant newbie area replays are a big turn-off as is playing something vastly different from your final build in order to improve your final. One guy is really funny: only plays classes that blow things up. The bigger and louder the explosion, the more he wants to play it. He loved hearing about Meteor Swarm being so loud it annoys teammates. On being told he has to PL as a non-sorc to really make it shine, though, it became "That's dumb."

ah, yes .... depending on 'word of mouth' for the last several YEARS is why the games population is so depleted.
> It Failed <

[fatherpirate]

1. Why would you rebrand a (supposed) classic? Retro-games are, and will always, eventually, become new.

2. The real question is: what does it take to grab someone's attention? See 1.

I humbly suggest you find a few other games to play.

ah ....
'Retro-games are, and will always, eventually, become new.'

wrong, this may be true with some games but MMORPGs are different, they have maint. costs.
so they do not just get 'rediscovered' later. The companies PULL THE PLUG.

[Cybersquirt]

ah ....
'Retro-games are, and will always, eventually, become new.'

wrong, this may be true with some games but MMORPGs are different, they have maint. costs.
so they do not just get 'rediscovered' later. The companies PULL THE PLUG.

Indeed. But the genres should count for something, no?

Disclaimer: this is the only MMO I play because they change and 'try to keep up with jones.'

I'm into Civ3 ATM (go figure,) and Deadfire.

But, okay, where are the numbers? How much does SSG spend (on DDO) vs what it makes?

No discussion can happen until we can see actual numbers. Scientific Method and all... :)

[Artos_Fabril]

ah, yes .... depending on 'word of mouth' for the last several YEARS is why the games population is so depleted.
> It Failed <
Well when the "word of mouth" that gets out is this (12-15 year) old game is plagued with lag, blocked by multiple pay walls, and is going to try to sell you a ($50-130) expansion every year, and you're looking at a steep learning curve on top of >1000 hours of grinding to meet the bare minimum of viability for "Endgame content"... Well it is no surprise that "word of mouth" isn't bringing in thousands of new players.

The free quest code and total access in early 2020 at least let people get in and see the game, the problem is that the game they saw wasn't compelling or particularly functional.

[Oxarhamar]

ah ....
'Retro-games are, and will always, eventually, become new.'

wrong, this may be true with some games but MMORPGs are different, they have maint. costs.
so they do not just get 'rediscovered' later. The companies PULL THE PLUG.

& yet the lights are still on

DDO is not going to just die off because it’s not what you want it to be

https://mmos.com/news/enad-global-7-revenues-are-up-193-yoy-following-daybreak-acquisition-in-2020

https://ddoplayers.com/2020/12/04/revenue-numbers-released-from-eg7-new-owners-of-daybreak/


Time for adverts

[Fnordian]

Number One thing that would help: ADERTISING!

I don't know how many posts I've seen that say 'this game is still going?' or even 'why haven't I ever heard about this game?'.

A basic advertising campaign would do wonders for the game.


Yep! I found DDO through an online ad back in 2008 or 2009 or something.
There's a good chance I never would have heard of it or tried it otherwise.
I haven't seen any online advertising for DDO in many years...not sure if there is any.

[Oxarhamar]

Yep! I found DDO through an online ad back in 2008 or 2009 or something.
There's a good chance I never would have heard of it or tried it otherwise.
I haven't seen any online advertising for DDO in many years...not sure if there is any.

Exactly

I’ve seen nothing

Not even emails to try pull back in past customers

U51 was touted to help new players enter epic without the ED grind wall & I’ve not seen any attempts at bringing them in

[Artos_Fabril]

ah ....
'Retro-games are, and will always, eventually, become new.'

wrong, this may be true with some games but MMORPGs are different, they have maint. costs.
so they do not just get 'rediscovered' later. The companies PULL THE PLUG.
And sometimes that's the best thing that could possibly happen to the game (See also: City of Heroes)