Quickstick Bard Variant?

[DezenX]

This is my attempt at a bard variant of the build shown here:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/517367-The-QuickStick-Build-%E2%80%93-By-Aldbar?p=6351496&posted=1

This is my first real attempt at making/adapting a build, and I tried to compensate for not having a 36 pt build available to me, but I'm sure there's room for improvement.

The goal, basically, is to swap the monk levels for bard while maintaining as close to the same bonuses the monk feats provide. I am for sure open to suggestions. :)


Character name: Songstick
Classes: 10 Epic, 9 Bard, 6 Fighter, 5 Rogue
Race: Human · · · · · · · ·Alignment: Chaotic Good

· · ·Start Tome Final · · ·Incorp:· · ·0% · · ·Displacement:· · 0%
Str:· · 14· · 1 · ·17 · · ·HP:· · · · 424 · · ·AC:· · 17
Dex:· · 14· · 1 · ·23 · · ·PRR: · · · · 3
Con:· · 15· · 1 · ·17 · · ·MRR: · · · · 0 · · ·+Healing Amp:· · 10
Int:· · 14· · 1 · ·17 · · ·Dodge: · 20/30 · · ·-Healing Amp:· · ·0
Wis:· · ·8· · 0 · · 8 · · ·Fort:· · · 15% · · ·Repair Amp:· · · 10
Cha:· · 14· · 0 · ·14 · · ·SR:· · · · · 0 · · ·BAB: · · · · · · 20
DR:
Immunities:

Class and Feat Selection
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
1 · · Rogue(1)· · · · ·Standard: Dodge
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Human Bonus: Force of Personality
2 · · Rogue(2)· · · · ·
3 · · Rogue(3)· · · · ·Standard: Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
4 · · Bard(1) · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
5 · · Bard(2) · · · · ·
6 · · Bard(3) · · · · ·Standard: Two Handed Fighting
7 · · Rogue(4)· · · · ·
8 · · Fighter(1)· · · ·Fighter Bonus: Mobility
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Intelligence: +1 Level up
9 · · Fighter(2)· · · ·Standard: Spring Attack
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Fighter Bonus: Power Critical
10· · Fighter(3)· · · ·
11· · Fighter(4)· · · ·Fighter Bonus: Combat Expertise
12· · Rogue(5)· · · · ·Standard: Whirlwind Attack
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
13· · Bard(4) · · · · ·
14· · Bard(5) · · · · ·
15· · Bard(6) · · · · ·Standard: Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
16· · Fighter(5)· · · ·Dexterity: +1 Level up
17· · Fighter(6)· · · ·Fighter Bonus: Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons
18· · Bard(7) · · · · ·Standard: Improved Two Handed Fighting
19· · Bard(8) · · · · ·
20· · Bard(9) · · · · ·Dexterity: +1 Level up
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Greater Two Handed Fighting
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Dexterity: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Elusive Target
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Blinding Speed
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Lasting Inspiration
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Dexterity: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Precision
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of Arborea

Skills
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skill Points· · ·44 11 11 ·9· 9 ·9 11 ·6· 6 ·6· 6 12 10 10 10 ·6· 6 10 10 10
Skill Name· · · ·01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20· Total Buffed
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Balance · · · · · 4 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 · · · · · · · · 2 ·2· 2 · · · · · · ·2· ·18.0 · 41.0
Bluff · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 16.0
Concentration · · ½ · · ½ · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1.0 · 18.0
Diplomacy · · · · 3 ·1· · ·1· · ·1· 1 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 7.0 · 23.0
Disable Device· · 4 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 40.0
Haggle· · · · · · 4 ·1· 1 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 6.0 · 22.0
Heal· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 13.0
Hide· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 20.0
Intimidate· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 16.0
Jump· · · · · · · 4 ·1· 1 ·1· · · · 1 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 8.0 · 28.0
Listen· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 13.0
Move Silently · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 20.0
Open Lock · · · · 4 ·1· 1 · · · · · 4 · · · · · · ·5· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 43.0
Perform · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 16.0
Repair· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 17.0
Search· · · · · · 4 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·½· ½ ·2· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 40.0
Spell Craft · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 17.0
Spot· · · · · · · 4 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·½· ½ ·1· 2 ·1· ·23.0 · 36.0
Swim· · · · · · · 4 ·1· 1 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 6.0 · 23.0
Tumble· · · · · · 4 ·1· 1 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 6.0 · 29.0
Use Magic Device· 4 ·1· 1 · · 2 ·1· 1 · · · · · · ·4· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·14.0 · 30.0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Available Points· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enhancements: 80 APs
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Human - Points spent: 6
Core1 Versatility I: Attack Boost
Tier1 Don't Count Me Out - 3 Ranks
Core2 Adaptability: +1 Intelligence
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thief-Acrobat - Points spent: 40
Core1 Staff Control
Tier1 Acrobat Staff Training I
Tier1 Fast Movement
Tier1 Thief Acrobatics - 3 Ranks
Core2 Stick Fighting
Tier2 Acrobat Staff Training II
Tier2 Quick Strike - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Haste Boost - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Sweeping Strikes - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Acrobat Staff Training III
Tier3 Shadow Dodge - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Ability I: +1 Dexterity
Tier4 Acrobat Staff Training IV
Tier4 Staff Lunge - 3 Ranks
Tier5 Acrobat Staff Training V
Tier5 Staff Specialization
Tier5 Spinning Staff Wall
Tier5 Vault
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kensei - Points spent: 24
Core1 Kensei Focus: Kensei Focus: Druidic Weapons
Tier1 Weapon Group Specialization I: Kensei Focus: Druidic Weapons
Tier1 Action Boost: Attack Boost - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Extra Action Boost - 3 Ranks
Core2 Spiritual Bond
Tier2 Improved Dodge - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Ascetic Training: Conditioning - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Critical Mastery - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Strike at the Heart
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warchanter - Points spent: 10
Core1 Skaldic Rage / Skaldic Constitution: Skaldic Constitution
Tier1 The Poetic Edda - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Enchant Weapon
Tier1 Inspired Bravery - 3 Ranks
Core2 Weapon Training
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spells· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · School· · · · ·DC
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bard Spells
L1: Enchant Weapons · · · · · · · · · · · · Transmutation · 12
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Khimberlhyte]

I ran a rogue 20 TA two years ago, a staff monk/rog/ftr for a fighter past life, and a monk 20 henshin last fall. All three felt fairly squishy above r1 in legendary content, and were 36 pt builds with +8 tomes. Staffs are not top tier DPS even if you try to build for damage.

As soon as you go for a flavor build like this on a staff, your damage drops even more. I expect your build would be outperformed by pretty much any pure class character in the game. So be aware of what you might be getting yourself into, since it could be a long road to level 30 for you.

The build plan shows minimal investment into any bard enhancement trees, so I don't understand the point of taking 9 bard levels. They do little for you other than a weak song and casting displacement on yourself with 7 levels of bard, which you'll only get at level 18 in your build plan. I don't see any reason to invest any build points into charisma since you will only need 11 cha at level 4 (level 1 spells) and 13 cha at level 18 (level 3 spells). You can use gear for that, or even augments, and free up those points for useful stats.

Level-ups appear to be spread across Int, Dex, and Str. Since you appear to be planning a 32 pt build with a +1 str tome, you could do 16 str, 15 dex, 15 con, 14 int. Alternatively, you can get a +2 Str tome at 1750 favor if you run every low level quest on elite before taking ITHF at level 12 or 15. That would let you start with 15 str, 16 dex and still put all 7 of your level-ups into Dex.

For enhancements, a tiny amount of concentration gives you nothing of value, and full ranks in UMD will be more useful than Diplo or Haggle, or even Open Lock. I find Bluff more useful than Diplo or Haggle as well, and bluff-pulling mobs is a lot of fun. I'm not sure if balance is worthwhile, but perhaps I've never invested enough to see the benefits. If you can spread out your fourth and fifth rogue levels a bit more, you might be able to catch up on core skills more easily and avoid needing to reach 16 int.

Whirlwind attack is a pretty heavy investment in feats for something that appears to largely duplicate Staff Lunge from the TA tree. You'll have separate cooldowns, but how many times per pack of mobs are you likely to use both staff lunge and your whirlwind ability?

Sweeping Strikes in Tier Three TA was one of my two favourite attacks in stick builds, the other being Shadows Cannot Exist Without light from Henshin. The DC for Sweeping Strikes is based on rogue levels and dex modifier, so it will be pretty much useless for you by the time you get it.

Your single target damage will be medicore, so delaying ITHF and GTHF to levels 18+21 doesn't make a lot of sense to me - you're delaying extra strikethrough, melee power, and +0.5x ability modifier damage with each feat. Same with delaying improved critical - it's usually a fairly high priority on melee builds.

In epics, I'm not sure what Blinding Speed offers that you can't get with gear or an augment. With 9 bard levels and few points spent in bard enhancements, your songs will hardly be worth using an Epic Destiny feat on Lasting Inspiration. You're going to want precision a lot sooner - I kept in on most of the way through epics, and I was able to invest more into my main stat than you could.

[DezenX]

I ran a rogue 20 TA two years ago, a staff monk/rog/ftr for a fighter past life, and a monk 20 henshin last fall. All three felt fairly squishy above r1 in legendary content, and were 36 pt builds with +8 tomes. Staffs are not top tier DPS even if you try to build for damage.

As soon as you go for a flavor build like this on a staff, your damage drops even more. I expect your build would be outperformed by pretty much any pure class character in the game. So be aware of what you might be getting yourself into, since it could be a long road to level 30 for you.

The build plan shows minimal investment into any bard enhancement trees, so I don't understand the point of taking 9 bard levels. They do little for you other than a weak song and casting displacement on yourself with 7 levels of bard, which you'll only get at level 18 in your build plan. I don't see any reason to invest any build points into charisma since you will only need 11 cha at level 4 (level 1 spells) and 13 cha at level 18 (level 3 spells). You can use gear for that, or even augments, and free up those points for useful stats.

Level-ups appear to be spread across Int, Dex, and Str. Since you appear to be planning a 32 pt build with a +1 str tome, you could do 16 str, 15 dex, 15 con, 14 int. Alternatively, you can get a +2 Str tome at 1750 favor if you run every low level quest on elite before taking ITHF at level 12 or 15. That would let you start with 15 str, 16 dex and still put all 7 of your level-ups into Dex.

For enhancements, a tiny amount of concentration gives you nothing of value, and full ranks in UMD will be more useful than Diplo or Haggle, or even Open Lock. I find Bluff more useful than Diplo or Haggle as well, and bluff-pulling mobs is a lot of fun. I'm not sure if balance is worthwhile, but perhaps I've never invested enough to see the benefits. If you can spread out your fourth and fifth rogue levels a bit more, you might be able to catch up on core skills more easily and avoid needing to reach 16 int.

Whirlwind attack is a pretty heavy investment in feats for something that appears to largely duplicate Staff Lunge from the TA tree. You'll have separate cooldowns, but how many times per pack of mobs are you likely to use both staff lunge and your whirlwind ability?

Sweeping Strikes in Tier Three TA was one of my two favourite attacks in stick builds, the other being Shadows Cannot Exist Without light from Henshin. The DC for Sweeping Strikes is based on rogue levels and dex modifier, so it will be pretty much useless for you by the time you get it.

Your single target damage will be medicore, so delaying ITHF and GTHF to levels 18+21 doesn't make a lot of sense to me - you're delaying extra strikethrough, melee power, and +0.5x ability modifier damage with each feat. Same with delaying improved critical - it's usually a fairly high priority on melee builds.

In epics, I'm not sure what Blinding Speed offers that you can't get with gear or an augment. With 9 bard levels and few points spent in bard enhancements, your songs will hardly be worth using an Epic Destiny feat on Lasting Inspiration. You're going to want precision a lot sooner - I kept in on most of the way through epics, and I was able to invest more into my main stat than you could.

What I really want is a quarterstaff bard, but it seems like only monk multiclass is really viable, or else it's a swashbuckler build.


I'm not so concerned with being able to solo endgame, but if this wouldn't even be good in a party even with adjustments like you mentioned, then I'll need to look into something else.

[magaiti]

6 fighter levels, what for? you get crit multi from Thief-Acrobat T5, so no need for Kensei core 3.
15 bard / 5 rogue for Inspire Heroics
13 bard / 2 fighter / 5 rogue for 2 fighter feats.

[DezenX]

6 fighter levels, what for? you get crit multi from Thief-Acrobat T5, so no need for Kensei core 3.
15 bard / 5 rogue for Inspire Heroics
13 bard / 2 fighter / 5 rogue for 2 fighter feats.

I believe the intention of the original build was to take advantage of the fighter bonus feats.

[Khimberlhyte]

What I really want is a quarterstaff bard, but it seems like only monk multiclass is really viable, or else it's a swashbuckler build.


I'm not so concerned with being able to solo endgame, but if this wouldn't even be good in a party even with adjustments like you mentioned, then I'll need to look into something else.

The real question to ask yourself is what are your goals with that character, and can you have fun with it? Any build can be fun and anything works in easier difficulties like N/H/E. With your build, you'll manage most traps, get a few kills, and probably not die too often if you're careful to avoid aggro. If you join r1 pugs who are just running the TR train, nobody will notice or care what you do, so long as you can add XP via traps/breakables, and don't slow the group down by needing to be rescued all the time.

I found that I struggled on stronger builds than this in mid-reaper, but ymmw. I personally wouldn't multiclass a monk or rogue stick build because the things I enjoy about the Henshin or TA trees benefit too much from staying pure. I would however use rogue and fighter (or monk) levels to slog through a heroic life in a class that I disliked, via a 7/7/6, 9/6/5 or something like that. But the only reason to do that is to completely ignore the main class.

Is a specific element to the playstyle that you think you'll enjoy? Gimmicks and one-trick ponies can be tiring to play, especially if they don't work against some types of common mobs.

The only form of crowd control that non-strength-based staff users can get is the knockdown from sweeping strikes. With just five rogue levels, that ability is not going to work for you at high levels or in difficult content. You'll end up diving into packs of mobs wearing light armor and hoping to whittle them down before they kill you, or waiting to group with some sort of tank or hate magnet.

The Bard class offers no real synergy for a stick build. I've run this swf bard build by unbongwah (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/446859-The-Icebreaker-A-Freezing-Warchanter-Bard?p=6079924&viewfull=1#post6079924) to level 30, and it was a ton of fun to play, since everything worked together. I have a bard life coming up next on my main, and in spite of my large collection of quarterstaffs, I'll likely go caster or swf with at least 16 bard levels. The 1% run speed per bard level is addictive, and since I enjoy bard, I'd rather play a build that focuses on what bards do best.

[unbongwah]

What I really want is a quarterstaff bard, but it seems like only monk multiclass is really viable, or else it's a swashbuckler build.
If that's all you want, why not run rogue 5 / bard 15? That gives access to tier-5 Acrobat (Staff Specialization etc), level 5 spells, and Inspire Heroics. There's more to customizing a build than just swapping one class for a different one. What're you gaining from a heavy multiclass like this?

[DezenX]

If that's all you want, why not run rogue 5 / bard 15? That gives access to tier-5 Acrobat (Staff Specialization etc), level 5 spells, and Inspire Heroics. There's more to customizing a build than just swapping one class for a different one. What're you gaining from a heavy multiclass like this?

I'm still learning the ins and outs of how to actually build a proper multiclass. From what I can tell with the original build, the reason for fighter was BAB and extra feats to boost thf, and monk was to add the dodge and further thf power.

I'll play with a 15/5 split and see how it compares.

[DezenX]

The real question to ask yourself is what are your goals with that character, and can you have fun with it? Any build can be fun and anything works in easier difficulties like N/H/E. With your build, you'll manage most traps, get a few kills, and probably not die too often if you're careful to avoid aggro. If you join r1 pugs who are just running the TR train, nobody will notice or care what you do, so long as you can add XP via traps/breakables, and don't slow the group down by needing to be rescued all the time.

I found that I struggled on stronger builds than this in mid-reaper, but ymmw. I personally wouldn't multiclass a monk or rogue stick build because the things I enjoy about the Henshin or TA trees benefit too much from staying pure. I would however use rogue and fighter (or monk) levels to slog through a heroic life in a class that I disliked, via a 7/7/6, 9/6/5 or something like that. But the only reason to do that is to completely ignore the main class.

Is a specific element to the playstyle that you think you'll enjoy? Gimmicks and one-trick ponies can be tiring to play, especially if they don't work against some types of common mobs.

The only form of crowd control that non-strength-based staff users can get is the knockdown from sweeping strikes. With just five rogue levels, that ability is not going to work for you at high levels or in difficult content. You'll end up diving into packs of mobs wearing light armor and hoping to whittle them down before they kill you, or waiting to group with some sort of tank or hate magnet.

The Bard class offers no real synergy for a stick build. I've run this swf bard build by unbongwah (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/446859-The-Icebreaker-A-Freezing-Warchanter-Bard?p=6079924&viewfull=1#post6079924) to level 30, and it was a ton of fun to play, since everything worked together. I have a bard life coming up next on my main, and in spite of my large collection of quarterstaffs, I'll likely go caster or swf with at least 16 bard levels. The 1% run speed per bard level is addictive, and since I enjoy bard, I'd rather play a build that focuses on what bards do best.

With the character, I really just want to be able to do group content. Not necessarily reaper, just regular old raiding.

[cru121]

If you own the Feydark Illusionist tree, consider also going max charisma.
Go bard 12+ to pick up warchanter freezes and 4th core.
Rogue 5 for Thief Acrobat T5.
At least one level in a divine class to pick Divine Might.

The fun part comes from Warchanter. AoE freeze on a 6s cooldown + free temporary HP equal to (2x) charisma score.

AP are fairly tight: ~38 TA, 7+ FI, 21+ WC, 4 divine might.

[unbongwah]

The fun part comes from Warchanter. AoE freeze on a 6s cooldown + free temporary HP equal to (2x) charisma score.
Can't take both tier-5 Acrobat and Warchanter. And staves get a lot weaker without Staff Specialization etc.

[cru121]

Can't take both tier-5 Acrobat and Warchanter. And staves get a lot weaker without Staff Specialization etc.

AoE comes from Strikethrough.

[unbongwah]

If that's all you want, why not run rogue 5 / bard 15?
So this is what I had in mind:

SDK Acrobard
15/5 Bard/Rogue
True Neutral Shadar-kai




Level Order


1. Rogue 6. Bard 11. Bard 16. Rogue
2. Bard 7. Bard 12. Rogue 17. Bard
3. Bard 8. Bard 13. Rogue 18. Bard
4. Bard 9. Bard 14. Bard 19. Bard
5. Bard 10. Bard 15. Rogue 20. Bard




Stats
32pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 15 +2 4: DEX
Dexterity 20 8: DEX
Constitution 14 12: DEX
Intelligence 10 +2 16: DEX
Wisdom 8 20: DEX
Charisma 6 24: DEX
28: DEX


Skills
R B B B B B B B B B B R R B R R B B B B
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Perform 5 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 3 1 1 1 23
Concent 1 5 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 3 1 1 1 23
Search 4 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 1 23
UMD 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Disable 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 5 1 2 1 1 1 21
Open Lo 4 2 6 4 3 19
Spot 4 3 7
Balance 4 4
Swim 4 4
Tumble 4 4
------------------------------------------------------------
32 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 9 9 7 9 9 7 7 7 7




Feats


1 : Two Handed Fighting
3 : Precision
6 : Quicken Spell
9 : Improved Two Handed Fighting
12 : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
15 : Greater Two Handed Fighting
18 : Improved Bardic Music
21 Epic : Inspire Excellence
22 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
24 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
25 Destiny: Crush Weakness OR Doublestrike
27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Deific Warding OR Harbinger of Chaos
30 Epic : Epic Reflexes
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea




Enhancements (Spent: 80 +0r +0u / Max: 80 +0r +0u AP)


Thief-Acrobat (38 AP)

Staff Control, Stick Fighting

Acrobat Staff Training, Thief Acrobatics III
Acrobat Staff Training, Quick Strike III, Haste Boost III
Acrobat Staff Training, Improved Glancing Blows III, Shadow Dodge III, Sweeping Strikes I
Acrobat Staff Training, No Mercy III, Staff Lunge I
Acrobat Staff Training, Staff Specialization, Spinning Staff Wall, Vault



Warchanter (21 AP)

Skaldic: Constitution, Weapon Training, Song of Heroism, Fighting Spirit

Inspired Bravery III, Poetic Edda II, Enchant Weapon
Boast III, Arcane Shield Chant III, Sprint Boost I
Ironskin Chant III



Horizon Walker (14 AP)

Mark Target, Improved Marking, Greater Marking

Eye for Accuracy III, Planar Dodge I
Protection from Evil and Good III, Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
No Step Missed III



Swashbuckler (7 AP)

Confidence

Blow By Blow: Melee III, Tavern Shanties I
Fast Movement



Leveling Guide


Thief-Acrobat: Staff Control, Stick Fighting

Acrobat Staff Training, Thief Acrobatics III
Acrobat Staff Training, Quick Strike III, Haste Boost III
Acrobat Staff Training, Improved Glancing Blows III, Shadow Dodge III, Sweeping Strikes I




Horizon Walker: Mark Target, Improved Marking, Greater Marking

Eye for Accuracy III, Planar Dodge I
Protection from Evil and Good III, Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
No Step Missed III




Swashbuckler: Confidence

Blow By Blow: Melee III, Tavern Shanties I
Fast Movement




Warchanter: Skaldic: Constitution, Weapon Training, Song of Heroism

Inspired Bravery III, Poetic Edda I
Boast III, Sprint Boost I


15. TA4 Acrobat Staff Training; TA4 Staff Lunge I; TA4 No Mercy I
16. Reset Warchanter

Thief-Acrobat

(none)
(none)
(none)
No Mercy III
Acrobat Staff Training, Staff Specialization, Spinning Staff Wall, Vault




Warchanter: Skaldic: Constitution

Inspired Bravery II, Enchant Weapon


17. War1 Inspired Bravery III; War2 Boast I, II, III
18. War0 Weapon Training; War0 Song of Heroism; War2 Sprint Boost I; War3 Ironskin Chant I
19. War3 Ironskin Chant II, III; War2 Arcane Shield Chant I, II
20. War2 Arcane Shield Chant III; War1 Poetic Edda I, II; War0 Fighting Spirit
DEX-based 2H melee, trap skills, and most bard buffs (missing level 6 spells). Could be adapted to any DEX race, I just used SDK because it makes it easier to prototype and to skip ahead to the good stuff. Kinda squishy but bard melees usually are. I hadn't planned out the EDs yet but I was thinking Fatesinger as primary tree with some FotW for extra Strikethrough.

[DezenX]

So this is what I had in mind:

SDK Acrobard
15/5 Bard/Rogue
True Neutral Shadar-kai




Level Order


1. Rogue 6. Bard 11. Bard 16. Rogue
2. Bard 7. Bard 12. Rogue 17. Bard
3. Bard 8. Bard 13. Rogue 18. Bard
4. Bard 9. Bard 14. Bard 19. Bard
5. Bard 10. Bard 15. Rogue 20. Bard




Stats
32pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 15 +2 4: DEX
Dexterity 20 8: DEX
Constitution 14 12: DEX
Intelligence 10 +2 16: DEX
Wisdom 8 20: DEX
Charisma 6 24: DEX
28: DEX


Skills
R B B B B B B B B B B R R B R R B B B B
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Perform 5 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 3 1 1 1 23
Concent 1 5 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 3 1 1 1 23
Search 4 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 1 23
UMD 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Disable 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 5 1 2 1 1 1 21
Open Lo 4 2 6 4 3 19
Spot 4 3 7
Balance 4 4
Swim 4 4
Tumble 4 4
------------------------------------------------------------
32 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 9 9 7 9 9 7 7 7 7




Feats


1 : Two Handed Fighting
3 : Precision
6 : Quicken Spell
9 : Improved Two Handed Fighting
12 : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
15 : Greater Two Handed Fighting
18 : Improved Bardic Music
21 Epic : Inspire Excellence
22 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
24 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
25 Destiny: Crush Weakness OR Doublestrike
27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Deific Warding OR Harbinger of Chaos
30 Epic : Epic Reflexes
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea




Enhancements (Spent: 80 +0r +0u / Max: 80 +0r +0u AP)


Thief-Acrobat (38 AP)

Staff Control, Stick Fighting

Acrobat Staff Training, Thief Acrobatics III
Acrobat Staff Training, Quick Strike III, Haste Boost III
Acrobat Staff Training, Improved Glancing Blows III, Shadow Dodge III, Sweeping Strikes I
Acrobat Staff Training, No Mercy III, Staff Lunge I
Acrobat Staff Training, Staff Specialization, Spinning Staff Wall, Vault



Warchanter (21 AP)

Skaldic: Constitution, Weapon Training, Song of Heroism, Fighting Spirit

Inspired Bravery III, Poetic Edda II, Enchant Weapon
Boast III, Arcane Shield Chant III, Sprint Boost I
Ironskin Chant III



Horizon Walker (14 AP)

Mark Target, Improved Marking, Greater Marking

Eye for Accuracy III, Planar Dodge I
Protection from Evil and Good III, Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
No Step Missed III



Swashbuckler (7 AP)

Confidence

Blow By Blow: Melee III, Tavern Shanties I
Fast Movement



Leveling Guide


Thief-Acrobat: Staff Control, Stick Fighting

Acrobat Staff Training, Thief Acrobatics III
Acrobat Staff Training, Quick Strike III, Haste Boost III
Acrobat Staff Training, Improved Glancing Blows III, Shadow Dodge III, Sweeping Strikes I




Horizon Walker: Mark Target, Improved Marking, Greater Marking

Eye for Accuracy III, Planar Dodge I
Protection from Evil and Good III, Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
No Step Missed III




Swashbuckler: Confidence

Blow By Blow: Melee III, Tavern Shanties I
Fast Movement




Warchanter: Skaldic: Constitution, Weapon Training, Song of Heroism

Inspired Bravery III, Poetic Edda I
Boast III, Sprint Boost I


15. TA4 Acrobat Staff Training; TA4 Staff Lunge I; TA4 No Mercy I
16. Reset Warchanter

Thief-Acrobat

(none)
(none)
(none)
No Mercy III
Acrobat Staff Training, Staff Specialization, Spinning Staff Wall, Vault




Warchanter: Skaldic: Constitution

Inspired Bravery II, Enchant Weapon


17. War1 Inspired Bravery III; War2 Boast I, II, III
18. War0 Weapon Training; War0 Song of Heroism; War2 Sprint Boost I; War3 Ironskin Chant I
19. War3 Ironskin Chant II, III; War2 Arcane Shield Chant I, II
20. War2 Arcane Shield Chant III; War1 Poetic Edda I, II; War0 Fighting Spirit
DEX-based 2H melee, trap skills, and most bard buffs (missing level 6 spells). Could be adapted to any DEX race, I just used SDK because it makes it easier to prototype and to skip ahead to the good stuff. Kinda squishy but bard melees usually are. I hadn't planned out the EDs yet but I was thinking Fatesinger as primary tree with some FotW for extra Strikethrough.

Would def be going human or, potentially, Tabaxi when that drops. We'll have to see what happens with that one stats-wise. I still have to unlock Horizon Walker anyway, so that gives me time to play with it. Thank you for taking a look and providing input, I like your builds a lot too.

[DezenX]

So this is what I had in mind:

SDK Acrobard
15/5 Bard/Rogue
True Neutral Shadar-kai




Level Order


1. Rogue 6. Bard 11. Bard 16. Rogue
2. Bard 7. Bard 12. Rogue 17. Bard
3. Bard 8. Bard 13. Rogue 18. Bard
4. Bard 9. Bard 14. Bard 19. Bard
5. Bard 10. Bard 15. Rogue 20. Bard




Stats
32pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 15 +2 4: DEX
Dexterity 20 8: DEX
Constitution 14 12: DEX
Intelligence 10 +2 16: DEX
Wisdom 8 20: DEX
Charisma 6 24: DEX
28: DEX


Skills
R B B B B B B B B B B R R B R R B B B B
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Perform 5 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 3 1 1 1 23
Concent 1 5 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 3 1 1 1 23
Search 4 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 1 23
UMD 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Disable 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 5 1 2 1 1 1 21
Open Lo 4 2 6 4 3 19
Spot 4 3 7
Balance 4 4
Swim 4 4
Tumble 4 4
------------------------------------------------------------
32 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 9 9 7 9 9 7 7 7 7




Feats


1 : Two Handed Fighting
3 : Precision
6 : Quicken Spell
9 : Improved Two Handed Fighting
12 : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
15 : Greater Two Handed Fighting
18 : Improved Bardic Music
21 Epic : Inspire Excellence
22 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
24 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
25 Destiny: Crush Weakness OR Doublestrike
27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Deific Warding OR Harbinger of Chaos
30 Epic : Epic Reflexes
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea




Enhancements (Spent: 80 +0r +0u / Max: 80 +0r +0u AP)


Thief-Acrobat (38 AP)

Staff Control, Stick Fighting

Acrobat Staff Training, Thief Acrobatics III
Acrobat Staff Training, Quick Strike III, Haste Boost III
Acrobat Staff Training, Improved Glancing Blows III, Shadow Dodge III, Sweeping Strikes I
Acrobat Staff Training, No Mercy III, Staff Lunge I
Acrobat Staff Training, Staff Specialization, Spinning Staff Wall, Vault



Warchanter (21 AP)

Skaldic: Constitution, Weapon Training, Song of Heroism, Fighting Spirit

Inspired Bravery III, Poetic Edda II, Enchant Weapon
Boast III, Arcane Shield Chant III, Sprint Boost I
Ironskin Chant III



Horizon Walker (14 AP)

Mark Target, Improved Marking, Greater Marking

Eye for Accuracy III, Planar Dodge I
Protection from Evil and Good III, Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
No Step Missed III



Swashbuckler (7 AP)

Confidence

Blow By Blow: Melee III, Tavern Shanties I
Fast Movement



Leveling Guide


Thief-Acrobat: Staff Control, Stick Fighting

Acrobat Staff Training, Thief Acrobatics III
Acrobat Staff Training, Quick Strike III, Haste Boost III
Acrobat Staff Training, Improved Glancing Blows III, Shadow Dodge III, Sweeping Strikes I




Horizon Walker: Mark Target, Improved Marking, Greater Marking

Eye for Accuracy III, Planar Dodge I
Protection from Evil and Good III, Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
No Step Missed III




Swashbuckler: Confidence

Blow By Blow: Melee III, Tavern Shanties I
Fast Movement




Warchanter: Skaldic: Constitution, Weapon Training, Song of Heroism

Inspired Bravery III, Poetic Edda I
Boast III, Sprint Boost I


15. TA4 Acrobat Staff Training; TA4 Staff Lunge I; TA4 No Mercy I
16. Reset Warchanter

Thief-Acrobat

(none)
(none)
(none)
No Mercy III
Acrobat Staff Training, Staff Specialization, Spinning Staff Wall, Vault




Warchanter: Skaldic: Constitution

Inspired Bravery II, Enchant Weapon


17. War1 Inspired Bravery III; War2 Boast I, II, III
18. War0 Weapon Training; War0 Song of Heroism; War2 Sprint Boost I; War3 Ironskin Chant I
19. War3 Ironskin Chant II, III; War2 Arcane Shield Chant I, II
20. War2 Arcane Shield Chant III; War1 Poetic Edda I, II; War0 Fighting Spirit
DEX-based 2H melee, trap skills, and most bard buffs (missing level 6 spells). Could be adapted to any DEX race, I just used SDK because it makes it easier to prototype and to skip ahead to the good stuff. Kinda squishy but bard melees usually are. I hadn't planned out the EDs yet but I was thinking Fatesinger as primary tree with some FotW for extra Strikethrough.

Found a bug with this actually. I think the app you use expects Protection from Evil and Good to cost 1 point per rank, but that's not the case - the last rank costs 2.

[unbongwah]

Found a bug with this actually. I think the app you use expects Protection from Evil and Good to cost 1 point per rank, but that's not the case - the last rank costs 2.
Good catch but TBH it doesn't really matter. All you need from Horizon Walker is No Step Missed. Everything else is filler to get there, though I figured I might as well take the first three cores to boost Mark Target and for the Haste SLA.

[DezenX]

Good catch but TBH it doesn't really matter. All you need from Horizon Walker is No Step Missed. Everything else is filler to get there, though I figured I might as well take the first three cores to boost Mark Target and for the Haste SLA.

Good to know! I may shift around said filler to suit, then.