HCL 6 ideas

[Searious]

A few thoughts on the HCL rewards mechanics. (And all this is without the HCL crash I died ~cry~ stuff - just focused on the rewards for this thread.)

At 1750 the rewards definitely need to be reconsidered. Helms or glowing eyes have always been meh. I don' t have the answer for this slot but surely player population has some interesting and fun suggestions. How about a mirror of glamouring or two? Or a special weapon glamour aura? idk.

At 5000 The horses have been cool, but we are saturated with horses now. And it has to be said the horses haven't been exactly what players dreamed of when reading about them. Firstly, the 'bone mount' was a regular horse wearing a bone helmet. Every player thought it would be a skeleton horse. Hint hint - you can still do that for us, and we'd go nuts to get it. The celestial mount was also a dud. The water horse from the Frozen 2 movie was more what we pictured. Lastly on horses, give us the Kelpie horse from lost locket, and let it be usable underwater. That would make player hearts swell.
Anyway, the bloody feet at 5k for HC5 was cool and nice to score them, but it does devalue the HC1 footprints in coolness factor, I suppose they should have been a different color or something I dunno.

The RP10 cloaks are fine - cool for the most part. The RP20 pets are and always have been meh. I have never cared for the 'pet' mechanic. They get in the way visually - like 5 of them running around during raids etc is annoying, and they don't actually DO anything. Now I would rather SSG not come up with something awesome for RP20, since then I'd have to actually get it, but honestly I'm thinking they are missing out on a huge opportunity there. Maybe if you could switch your leap of faith wings with a cosmetic reaper wings replacement or something. There are possibilities there, you see where I'm going with it.

And lastly, the last idea is - with the recent content adds to the game, 5k isn't really a big deal anymore. I can skip Titan and ADQ and still get 5k before finishing Vale or stepping foot in Amrath. It's a cake walk that's more of a time sink than anything. Let's add a 6k favor reward - make it awesome, and watch the HC server buzz with new life again :D

[archest]

regardless of VIP status.

#1 everyone open elite level
#2 everyone have access to all content

[Dendrix]

regardless of VIP status.

#1 everyone open elite level
#2 everyone have access to all content

No.
I pay for VIP, I think if you want the benefits I have to pay for you should pay for them.
I pay for expansions, I think if you want the benefits I have to pay for you should pay for them.

[Oxarhamar]

regardless of VIP status.

#1 everyone open elite level
#2 everyone have access to all content

Not signed

[Oxarhamar]

A few thoughts on the HCL rewards mechanics. (And all this is without the HCL crash I died ~cry~ stuff - just focused on the rewards for this thread.)

At 1750 the rewards definitely need to be reconsidered. Helms or glowing eyes have always been meh. I don' t have the answer for this slot but surely player population has some interesting and fun suggestions. How about a mirror of glamouring or two? Or a special weapon glamour aura? idk.

At 5000 The horses have been cool, but we are saturated with horses now. And it has to be said the horses haven't been exactly what players dreamed of when reading about them. Firstly, the 'bone mount' was a regular horse wearing a bone helmet. Every player thought it would be a skeleton horse. Hint hint - you can still do that for us, and we'd go nuts to get it. The celestial mount was also a dud. The water horse from the Frozen 2 movie was more what we pictured. Lastly on horses, give us the Kelpie horse from lost locket, and let it be usable underwater. That would make player hearts swell.
Anyway, the bloody feet at 5k for HC5 was cool and nice to score them, but it does devalue the HC1 footprints in coolness factor, I suppose they should have been a different color or something I dunno.

The RP10 cloaks are fine - cool for the most part. The RP20 pets are and always have been meh. I have never cared for the 'pet' mechanic. They get in the way visually - like 5 of them running around during raids etc is annoying, and they don't actually DO anything. Now I would rather SSG not come up with something awesome for RP20, since then I'd have to actually get it, but honestly I'm thinking they are missing out on a huge opportunity there. Maybe if you could switch your leap of faith wings with a cosmetic reaper wings replacement or something. There are possibilities there, you see where I'm going with it.

And lastly, the last idea is - with the recent content adds to the game, 5k isn't really a big deal anymore. I can skip Titan and ADQ and still get 5k before finishing Vale or stepping foot in Amrath. It's a cake walk that's more of a time sink than anything. Let's add a 6k favor reward - make it awesome, and watch the HC server buzz with new life again :D

Having different rewards might interest me depending good idea

I like mounts but we need something 9tger than horses dinosaurs psudodragons etc

[slarden]

I think some over-achiever rewards like 6500k favor, 5MM rxp would be good - I personally wouldn't go for those - not willing to commit the time, but you never know - the reward could convince me to go for 5MM while making a new alt at the same time. They should not take away rewards - just add.

My favorite reward is the cloaks. The RP10 I like because it's fast and meaningful, although it's getting easier so less meaningful every season. In season 1 less than 100 people earned it so it meant something and was rare. They get less rare every season. I had an alt with less than 100k that just ran a few random reapers going for favor and level 20 season 1 and even that character was on top 100.

RP20 based on the #s is the hardest reward to earn and yet one of the worse prizes. I never pull out pets and generally don't like them as a cosmetic, but some people do.

We've had 5 seasons which makes me wonder if it's time to retire hardcore and try some type of challenge season. Possibly even a season on live and something that encourages grouping. Perhaps creating a new character on a live server so the equal playing field benefit is still there. Not sure if the devs have the tech for something like that.

Either way, it's been 5 seasons. Something is needed to spice it up at a minimum, although it still seems extremely popular based on the # of death notices I saw running my 100 favor for TP.

[boredGamer]

No.
I pay for VIP, I think if you want the benefits I have to pay for you should pay for them.
I pay for expansions, I think if you want the benefits I have to pay for you should pay for them.

I pay for vip and completely disagree. It’s just sad the non vip on hardcore desperately posting for openers. Give vip some other benefit but it’s silly to lock that in hardcore.

Second - let’s get some OTHER types of challenges - it doesn’t have to be 1750 and 5k at all. I’ve posted ideas before but other types of challenges would be phenomenal.

[archest]

so keep it it wont be as crowded with me not there .

[Bjond]

My idea contribution to this thread is ...


Dandelion Footprints. Call the feat "Pushing up Daisies" or similar to fit the HCL death theme. SSG's art team is more than creative enough to come up with a nature themed footprint that doesn't look like you're tracking wet paint all over. Add this one and that season will be packed.


1750 the rewards definitely need to be reconsidered
Give a single tome+8 bound to character, claimable only once per server. Or a single DP+1 historical, bound to character, claim one per server.

At 5000 The horses have been cool
I seriously doubt they could make a horse that would motivated me to run 5k favor. With the stable, a single fast horse is all I need and I have 7 or 8 of them. I do like the footprints. A sufficiently unique one might motivate me to run another 5k. Or, make it more incremental. Give a single +8 tome of choice per 1k favor earned once per server. Earn 6k favor? You earned the equivalent of one S8 tome. Or DP+1 tomes. Something you can take back that might help your live characters.

The RP10 cloaks are fine
I like the cloaks, too, and they feel about right as far as "niceness" of reward goes for the effort.

RP20 pets are and always have been meh
LOL, yeah. Pets are annoying to have around. They're kinda fun for 10s when you get a new one, but then dismissed and never summoned again.

add a 6k favor reward
If you want to make it more than a careful grind, more favor wouldn't be the way to go. More reaper would do that, though I do agree that favor levels are MUCH more likely to garner interest than reaper.

regardless of VIP status. #1 everyone open elite level #2 everyone have access to all content

I pay for vip and completely disagree
Both of these solutions need to be combined effectively for DDO to survive at all. F2P is utterly pointless right now. There is no reason for a F2P player to be in game at all unless they are doing something to make things more fun for VIP -- filling out groups, farming mats for AH, posting funny stuff in general chat -- the exact what doesn't much matter. Access is important. I'm not buying new content now because of what happened with Feywild. No one bought it and thus the only reason to own it was if you wanted to solo-farm the gear there.

In order to maximize the usefulness of F2P to VIP, the F2P need access to all that the VIP can access. So, I'd do something like how VIP can open elite instantly and F2P can join, but for access, too; ie. F2P grouped with VIP can do anything the VIP has access. It still needs an incentive to buy, though. Perhaps (with a VIP in group) they can run, they can loot, but they can't wear stuff from content without access. This would leave them with nice shiny items they might want to use badly enough to buy VIP and/or expansion packs.

So, more VIP incentive and F2P becomes universally useful to VIP as groupies.

[Mofus]

Wouldn't mind seeing some permanent hireling rewards.

[Wizard1406]

Both of these solutions need to be combined effectively for DDO to survive at all. F2P is utterly pointless right now. There is no reason for a F2P player to be in game at all unless they are doing something to make things more fun for VIP -- filling out groups, farming mats for AH, posting funny stuff in general chat -- the exact what doesn't much matter. Access is important. I'm not buying new content now because of what happened with Feywild. No one bought it and thus the only reason to own it was if you wanted to solo-farm the gear there.

In order to maximize the usefulness of F2P to VIP, the F2P need access to all that the VIP can access. So, I'd do something like how VIP can open elite instantly and F2P can join, but for access, too; ie. F2P grouped with VIP can do anything the VIP has access. It still needs an incentive to buy, though. Perhaps (with a VIP in group) they can run, they can loot, but they can't wear stuff from content without access. This would leave them with nice shiny items they might want to use badly enough to buy VIP and/or expansion packs.

So, more VIP incentive and F2P becomes universally useful to VIP as groupies.

I agree! In many F2P games all areas are free access, so the spenders have more people to play with. Restricting wearing equipment from there and no favor rewards like the universal trees, could be a good restriction. Then people still want to buy content but can join groups even before they buy it. Good as a "trial" of new content too.

I remember it being harder to fill P2P content before the free quest code and cheap expansions. And then, like you said it is still harder to fill newer expansions that were not sold for DP yet or for a deep black friday sale discount yet.

[archest]

not going to pay 30.00 to play HARDCORE event. sorry id rather have 5000 points on a main server.

[StormKnight]

regardless of VIP status.

#1 everyone open elite level
#2 everyone have access to all content

Then what's the point of having items locked to account, when players could just hardcore them for free. No cigar for you and rightfully so.

[archest]

I guess if you spent years farming during hardcore you could freely transfer item sets to your main account without having to purchase expansions.
could also reduce the time Hardcore runs to limit that further.
but regardless not going to spend money (Points) for an event which limits the capability of the game further (crafting, leveling)
In store purchases on hard core that are locked in the land of the lost.
is real money too.

[Oliphant]

I spotted some real VIP high rollers on this thread. That VIP whale mode is keeping the lights on I'm told. LOLOLOL

[Memnir]

regardless of VIP status.

#1 everyone open elite level
#2 everyone have access to all contenthttps://i.imgur.com/pp8rJie.gif


No.

[SiliconScout]

Wouldn't mind seeing some permanent hireling rewards.NOT SIGNED and that is as someone who has played every hardcore. Hardcore should not, ever provide any reward that has a tangible, in-game benefit while questing. Especially if it's permanent



Cosmetics, sure.
Mounts, OK
effects and auras sure thing
Maybe some QoL specialty pots that combine 2 other post at a slightly increased price

deathward + CSW
Remove Curse + Remove disease
CSW + Restoration
Deathward + Aid


Changing it up can be OK for sure but if has to be anything that doesn't provide a permanent boost. If it does then it becomes something you need to run and we are going down that road just shut down all there servers and make one mega-hardcore server for the game because with them running 9-10 months out of the year that is what will essentially happen anyway.

[elkorm]

regardless of VIP status.

#1 everyone open elite level
#2 everyone have access to all content

regardless of status every1 can open Reaper and you can run quests only on reaper at max +2

that would be a great challenge with everyone on even footing (gear/toon wise)
my 2 cents

Cheers
Elk

[fatherpirate]

HCL6 idea

Don't have one.
no really

make something else that is actually fun

[Jerevth]

My thoughts

Weapon glamors:
- blood dripping for reaching level 20
- black ichor dripping for reaper tier 1
- blackened right arm for Reaper tier 2 (not certain if this could be done, though)

5000 Favor- half and half hair dye; top half is white, the lower half (in an uneven line) is blood red and... is it dripping?

7500 Favor- scintillating aura around the toon

[Logicman69]

If we are going to keep the cosmetic thing, what about some new armor or helms. Give us a flaming skull cosmetic (flame available in multiple color choices) like Ghost Rider for the 1750 favor, and then a NEW armor cosmetic for 5000.

[Question2005]

How about a HCL that doesnt cannibalize players from the existing servers? It gets much harder to fill parties when a good chunk of the server is on the HC server and wont be coming back till 1.5 months later.

[Deathwing_The_Dragon]

Best Idea for HCL: Shut it down. Permanently.

The regular servers are ghost towns because of HCL5 basically - thank God I did not TR right now else will be stuck in the Harbour. For all the effort they put on HC, if only they put 50% on server merge, it would have happened by now. Same with storage issues, same with bugs since 2010.

/not signed. Shut it down.

[LightBear]

Yeah, a sever merge sounds like fun.

[Logicman69]

How about a HCL that doesnt cannibalize players from the existing servers? It gets much harder to fill parties when a good chunk of the server is on the HC server and wont be coming back till 1.5 months later.

How would you do that, though? Permadeath rules on the regular server? How angry would people be if their main characters died due to lag? Even if it was only for the duration of the event...

[Question2005]

How would you do that, though? Permadeath rules on the regular server? How angry would people be if their main characters died due to lag? Even if it was only for the duration of the event...

In the first place, i probably wouldnt have made something like a HC server, especially when the game has a serious population problem as it is.

But if i wanted to do it, i would have first enabled free server transfers and some other systems to help make it work (optional refunding all shards used to purchase guild ships so that you can recreate your ship on the new server for example). Most of the community would naturally congregate on a few servers which would mitigate the low pop issue. Only then would I work on a HC server.

If necessary, I would make HC less of a league and more of a challenge mode. Instead of grinding league after league for rewards, its just a permanent hardcore mode. There would be first time bonuses like first time favor milestones though. So you would never have the problem of people leaving their regular server to play on the HC server every league just to farm the rewards over and over and over again. It would be mainly for people who actually enjoy the added challenge of perma death (which is, you know, the entire point of a hardcore mode?). Hardcore should not be about farming rewards, just like how you arent supposed to farm favor with alts on other server over and over, thats why the favor milestones are for your first time only.

Instead of a HC server, we could have gotten a "classic DDO" server instead. You know, without the insane powercreep? Where bull's strength spells were useful, etc? I bet a lot of veterans would love that. Obviously, content would have to be re-balanced to classic standards though, since everything these days is balanced around veterans with +8 tomes and past lives...

[Michaelaz2]

maybe fix the lag after 5 seasons ?

[mikarddo]

In the first place, i probably wouldnt have made something like a HC server, especially when the game has a serious population problem as it is.

But if i wanted to do it, i would have first enabled free server transfers and some other systems to help make it work (optional refunding all shards used to purchase guild ships so that you can recreate your ship on the new server for example). Most of the community would naturally congregate on a few servers which would mitigate the low pop issue. Only then would I work on a HC server.

If necessary, I would make HC less of a league and more of a challenge mode. Instead of grinding league after league for rewards, its just a permanent hardcore mode. There would be first time bonuses like first time favor milestones though. So you would never have the problem of people leaving their regular server to play on the HC server every league just to farm the rewards over and over and over again. It would be mainly for people who actually enjoy the added challenge of perma death (which is, you know, the entire point of a hardcore mode?). Hardcore should not be about farming rewards, just like how you arent supposed to farm favor with alts on other server over and over, thats why the favor milestones are for your first time only.

Instead of a HC server, we could have gotten a "classic DDO" server instead. You know, without the insane powercreep? Where bull's strength spells were useful, etc? I bet a lot of veterans would love that. Obviously, content would have to be re-balanced to classic standards though, since everything these days is balanced around veterans with +8 tomes and past lives...

You see to have missed the point. HC is neither mostly about perma-death nor mostly about the rewards. HC is mostly about creating an envirronment where *many* players start out fresh at the very same time, run in groups at more or less the same level without accumulated wealth in rxp, past lives, gear etc (but still in knowledge) and actually run all (almost) of the quests in DDO rather than cherry pick. As far as I can tell what you are suggesting captures absolutely none of that. Mind, I am not a major HC fan and havent played every season but I have played some.

[Oxarhamar]

You see to have missed the point. HC is neither mostly about perma-death nor mostly about the rewards. HC is mostly about creating an envirronment where *many* players start out fresh at the very same time, run in groups at more or less the same level without accumulated wealth in rxp, past lives, gear etc (but still in knowledge) and actually run all (almost) of the quests in DDO rather than cherry pick. As far as I can tell what you are suggesting captures absolutely none of that. Mind, I am not a major HC fan and havent played every season but I have played some.

if players really wanted that experience there is nothing stopping them from running a static group on the regular servers

[dredre9987]

regardless of VIP status.

#1 everyone open elite level
#2 everyone have access to all content

No you want the perks of VIP pay for it like anyone else does.

[dredre9987]

I guess if you spent years farming during hardcore you could freely transfer item sets to your main account without having to purchase expansions.
could also reduce the time Hardcore runs to limit that further.
but regardless not going to spend money (Points) for an event which limits the capability of the game further (crafting, leveling)
In store purchases on hard core that are locked in the land of the lost.
is real money too.

Nothing is locked in the land of the lost. Grab everything you want when HC is over and transfer the character where you want.

[Question2005]

You see to have missed the point. HC is neither mostly about perma-death nor mostly about the rewards. HC is mostly about creating an envirronment where *many* players start out fresh at the very same time, run in groups at more or less the same level without accumulated wealth in rxp, past lives, gear etc (but still in knowledge) and actually run all (almost) of the quests in DDO rather than cherry pick. As far as I can tell what you are suggesting captures absolutely none of that. Mind, I am not a major HC fan and havent played every season but I have played some.

The point of perma death is added challenge. The whole "starting out fresh" thing is often referred to as "a ladder" league where players start out fresh and try to race each other to thet op.

Either way, when existing servers have a low pop issue, cannibalizing players from them doesnt help at all.

[mikarddo]

if players really wanted that experience there is nothing stopping them from running a static group on the regular servers

The key word here is static group - and thus it does not even remotely capture the experience that HC offers with a vibrant PuG community - which is the main draw of the event. Thus I do believe you are missing the entire point.

[mikarddo]

The point of perma death is added challenge. The whole "starting out fresh" thing is often referred to as "a ladder" league where players start out fresh and try to race each other to thet op.

Either way, when existing servers have a low pop issue, cannibalizing players from them doesnt help at all.

Aye, obviously perma-death is part of the experience but not the main one. Obviously, the low population of DDO is an issue - and part of the reason why the event has to pull players from every server to reach critical mass to be a success. The fact that so many players do join HC shows that it is a success.

Still, it would certainly be better for DDO if they could either have a single regular server or cross server LFM as that would a little of the same feeling on regular servers. There is no denying that point.

[boredGamer]

If we are going to keep the cosmetic thing, what about some new armor or helms. Give us a flaming skull cosmetic (flame available in multiple color choices) like Ghost Rider for the 1750 favor, and then a NEW armor cosmetic for 5000.

To get back on the IDEAS train instead of the off topic hate train - let’s do an all solo reward for next HC. Maybe something not super long, but say, can only open r1, no hirelings or party members, get to level 20.

Would also of course have grouping rewards the same season.

I know ruins some of the grouping stuff, would just be one of the types. But more different challenges please !

[Oxarhamar]

The key word here is static group - and thus it does not even remotely capture the experience that HC offers with a vibrant PuG community - which is the main draw of the event. Thus I do believe you are missing the entire point.

Not at all that's exactly where the problem lies with hardcore is the drain on regular servers

There are entire guilds dedicated to this but static group is the best

vibrant pugging community is what the game needs on the regular servers why merge or cross server is needed so badly

[slarden]

The key word here is static group - and thus it does not even remotely capture the experience that HC offers with a vibrant PuG community - which is the main draw of the event. Thus I do believe you are missing the entire point.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Alot of people don't stick with static groups on live because of pacing - they don't want their tr's stuck in the mud due to other people's schedules. They could have a better overall experience with a static group, but don't because they don't want to be slowed down.

On hardcore there is more dependence on grouping because characters are weaker, dying is problematic and there is also a tighter range of difficulties - most run E/R1 3-4 levels above the quest level aside from level 30 Rxp farmers.

The level playing field aspect of hardcore is also a significant reason why people like it.

As far as comparing group live to hardcore - apples to oranges comparisons.

On hardcore you basically have 3 flavors of groups, but it's mostly the first two
1) Running E/R1 3-4 levels above the quest level
2) Running low skulls at 30 for faster rxp accumulation
3) People running just to get to 20 and 1750 favor

On live you generally can find groups for raiding and level 30 high skull questing, but leveling groups are hit and miss. Epic questing used to be an lfm wasteland, but I see more groups now, but still not as many as level 30 raiding/high reapers.

[Oxarhamar]

Aye, obviously perma-death is part of the experience but not the main one. Obviously, the low population of DDO is an issue - and part of the reason why the event has to pull players from every server to reach critical mass to be a success. The fact that so many players do join HC shows that it is a success.

Still, it would certainly be better for DDO if they could either have a single regular server or cross server LFM as that would a little of the same feeling on regular servers. There is no denying that point.

Hcl shows how well cross server groups would work and how great the game would be without the spread out population

[Oxarhamar]

To get back on the IDEAS train instead of the off topic hate train - let’s do an all solo reward for next HC. Maybe something not super long, but say, can only open r1, no hirelings or party members, get to level 20.

Would also of course have grouping rewards the same season.

I know ruins some of the grouping stuff, would just be one of the types. But more different challenges please !

Have to be interesting rewards either way

[teejax]

HC is/was great, but it's largely a solved problem, especially with the 5k being easier due to extra low level quests. This has reduced grouping over time and reduced its flavour., the elites fly of to level 30 by day 3 etc. It needs a shake up to recapture it.

My idea is inspired by E6 dnd, it's fairly simple, each point past the 1st one is optional so I don't think there's massive dev work needed. If isle of dread comes out at lvl 6 in heroics then I think there some nice marketing synergy to. For a short season, 1 month say
Prevent leveling to 7 or above
Ideally prevent min level lockout so you can try arbitrarily hard content
How high up the favor and rxp ladders can you go? 2000 favor and 10rxp can be final rewards, some lower stuff. Do you have the guts to try something like invaders elite on your lvl 6, presumably well geared by that point. How high up can you go, if you die easy race back to 6 to try again. Would be fun, no one would know the optimum strategies, so we'd figure them out together.

[SiliconScout]

if players really wanted that experience there is nothing stopping them from running a static group on the regular serversNo ... they really really can't.

Why you might say, well I tried it and here's what I ran into.



Static groups require an agreed schedule and anyone missing a session or three can be problematic.

Anytime you start to get out leveled the group either has to slow down or you need to play some solo / pug to make up the time.
Having tried several static groups over the years it generally just doesn't manage to work long term even when they get going. Life happens.


The population of players who would want to do this is dismal on the regular servers

Most would rather work on their mains on the home server than burin in time with a suboptimal build / toon in a new group.
Of those that might be interested aren't going to be necessarily be on the same server so you generally need to find "neutral ground" where nobody has a guild / toon on the server (Wayfinder is kind of good for this honestly). If you want the HC play experience nobody can have that "rich uncle" on the server than can hand out some gear or a generous platinum loan.


The ability to join in a raid and be competitive and contributing is basically NIL.

The static group is all new toons, no gear, no PL's, nothing going for it really but what they have managed to accumulate so far. They will be unable to 6 man most raids (assuming by some stroke of fortune you have a 6 toon static group)
The PUG scene for Raids is generally lead by and filled with toons that could nearly solo the thing and opened it up because they are nice or are farming gear.
If the PUG is running a raid that the primary couple of toons can't manage on their own then they are running for challenge and a bunch of wet behind the ears first lifers are not going to be at all what they are looking for or need to try and complete the Raid.


The AH and ASAH are not going to be very viable to either sell gear or round out your gear set.

The prices are wildly out of line with the resources you will be able to acquire and honestly if you get a piece of gear that would / could sell well there's a darn good chance you are actually going to use it in the group because you need gear badly.



So yeah the static group thing comes about as close to replicating the Hardcore experience as a plain McDonalds Hamburger comes to replicating a 2 inch prime rib dinner unfortunately. And a server merge or even cross server grouping is unlikely to resolve any of the above issues because players will still have the choice to NOT play that way and the vast, vast majority will choose not to. On Hardcore you are forced to play that way and it's more about personal challenge and the experience than any rewards gained for most. And you can see HC server numbers are dropping. I don't think I have seen a 5 instance Harbor or Marketplace since the first HCL to be honest and that alone tells you less players are in the mix.

When faced with the option to spend time in this sort of activity vs. working on your main most will want to work the main.

[boredGamer]

HC is/was great, but it's largely a solved problem, especially with the 5k being easier due to extra low level quests. This has reduced grouping over time and reduced its flavour., the elites fly of to level 30 by day 3 etc. It needs a shake up to recapture it.

My idea is inspired by E6 dnd, it's fairly simple, each point past the 1st one is optional so I don't think there's massive dev work needed. If isle of dread comes out at lvl 6 in heroics then I think there some nice marketing synergy to. For a short season, 1 month say
Prevent leveling to 7 or above
Ideally prevent min level lockout so you can try arbitrarily hard content
How high up the favor and rxp ladders can you go? 2000 favor and 10rxp can be final rewards, some lower stuff. Do you have the guts to try something like invaders elite on your lvl 6, presumably well geared by that point. How high up can you go, if you die easy race back to 6 to try again. Would be fun, no one would know the optimum strategies, so we'd figure them out together.

Love that. Also love slightly lower grind but higher challenge ideas.

[Oxarhamar]

No ... they really really can't.

Why you might say, well I tried it and here's what I ran into.



Static groups require an agreed schedule and anyone missing a session or three can be problematic.

Anytime you start to get out leveled the group either has to slow down or you need to play some solo / pug to make up the time.
Having tried several static groups over the years it generally just doesn't manage to work long term even when they get going. Life happens.


The population of players who would want to do this is dismal on the regular servers

Most would rather work on their mains on the home server than burin in time with a suboptimal build / toon in a new group.
Of those that might be interested aren't going to be necessarily be on the same server so you generally need to find "neutral ground" where nobody has a guild / toon on the server (Wayfinder is kind of good for this honestly). If you want the HC play experience nobody can have that "rich uncle" on the server than can hand out some gear or a generous platinum loan.


The ability to join in a raid and be competitive and contributing is basically NIL.

The static group is all new toons, no gear, no PL's, nothing going for it really but what they have managed to accumulate so far. They will be unable to 6 man most raids (assuming by some stroke of fortune you have a 6 toon static group)
The PUG scene for Raids is generally lead by and filled with toons that could nearly solo the thing and opened it up because they are nice or are farming gear.
If the PUG is running a raid that the primary couple of toons can't manage on their own then they are running for challenge and a bunch of wet behind the ears first lifers are not going to be at all what they are looking for or need to try and complete the Raid.


The AH and ASAH are not going to be very viable to either sell gear or round out your gear set.

The prices are wildly out of line with the resources you will be able to acquire and honestly if you get a piece of gear that would / could sell well there's a darn good chance you are actually going to use it in the group because you need gear badly.



So yeah the static group thing comes about as close to replicating the Hardcore experience as a plain McDonalds Hamburger comes to replicating a 2 inch prime rib dinner unfortunately. And a server merge or even cross server grouping is unlikely to resolve any of the above issues because players will still have the choice to NOT play that way and the vast, vast majority will choose not to. On Hardcore you are forced to play that way and it's more about personal challenge and the experience than any rewards gained for most. And you can see HC server numbers are dropping. I don't think I have seen a 5 instance Harbor or Marketplace since the first HCL to be honest and that alone tells you less players are in the mix.

When faced with the option to spend time in this sort of activity vs. working on your main most will want to work the main.

This has not been my experiance in static groups at all never outleveled anyone in group for multiple lives in a row but then your experiance my vary

Corss server replicates the combined population on HCL

[SiliconScout]

..Corss server replicates the combined population on HCLI will give you that but it's really the only aspect of the HCL experience it manages.

Don't get me wrong I would love to see it happen but I suspect that there's something in the system that makes this exceedingly difficult because it's a no brainer to do if it was even moderately taxing on their resources.

Best bet I think is for them to merge into a brand new mega-server. That said they really need to figure out the guild issue before they walk down that road.

[mikarddo]

I will give you that but it's really the only aspect of the HCL experience it manages.

Don't get me wrong I would love to see it happen but I suspect that there's something in the system that makes this exceedingly difficult because it's a no brainer to do if it was even moderately taxing on their resources.

Best bet I think is for them to merge into a brand new mega-server. That said they really need to figure out the guild issue before they walk down that road.

a) Make a brand new server.
b) Make server transfering to that server free.
c) Give every guild leader a token that lists the level of the guild.
d) The token creates a guild with that level and adds a maxed out airship. [easier than having to duplicate the exact ship for each guild and many guilds are already maxed out]
e) Let names sort themselves out.
f) Reinvite members once on the new server. [some hassle here but we will get over it]
g) Those with more characters than slots on the new server, tough.
h) Those with server unlocks that do not transfer (I have some of those myself), tough, earn them again.

The only hard part is the token for the guild leader as far as I can see but I obviously have no way of knowing just how easy or hard it would be.

[Assassination]

I'd like to see them charge a $100 entry fee to HCL 6. Then pay the top point getter $5 dollars, the runner up $1. Then use the rest of the money to fix the lag and the 29 pages of bugs they brought to the game with update 51. And also fix the complete trash epic destiny Shadowdancer. Y, fix the mess you have made.:mad:

[Wizard1406]

a) Make a brand new server.
b) Make server transfering to that server free.
c) Give every guild leader a token that lists the level of the guild.
d) The token creates a guild with that level and adds a maxed out airship. [easier than having to duplicate the exact ship for each guild and many guilds are already maxed out]
e) Let names sort themselves out.
f) Reinvite members once on the new server. [some hassle here but we will get over it]
g) Those with more characters than slots on the new server, tough.
h) Those with server unlocks that do not transfer (I have some of those myself), tough, earn them again.

The only hard part is the token for the guild leader as far as I can see but I obviously have no way of knowing just how easy or hard it would be.

agree with a) to f)

e) just name your guild Something - old server, if the name is taken before you get around to transfering

g) Should increase max number of characters per server.

h) I'd prefer to have that transfer over with tokens that list what you have unlocked, but not a big deal otherwise.

What has to take over are shards (those cost either real money or a lot of time to build up) and shared and ingredients bank though (took years to get good supplies). And they should probably get rid of the TR cache completely, otherwise people will lose it on transfer if they forgot to empty it.

[Oxarhamar]

a) Make a brand new server.
b) Make server transfering to that server free.
c) Give every guild leader a token that lists the level of the guild.
d) The token creates a guild with that level and adds a maxed out airship. [easier than having to duplicate the exact ship for each guild and many guilds are already maxed out]
e) Let names sort themselves out.
f) Reinvite members once on the new server. [some hassle here but we will get over it]
g) Those with more characters than slots on the new server, tough.
h) Those with server unlocks that do not transfer (I have some of those myself), tough, earn them again.

The only hard part is the token for the guild leader as far as I can see but I obviously have no way of knowing just how easy or hard it would be.

+1

[Alphabox]

If you want to continue to provide Cosmetics for rewards, you should provide Bag.
It's a very serious matter.

[Oxarhamar]

If you want to continue to provide Cosmetics for rewards, you should provide Bag.
It's a very serious matter.

True been saying for so long about cosmetics

+1

[boredGamer]

If you want to continue to provide Cosmetics for rewards, you should provide Bag.
It's a very serious matter.

It doesn’t matter for hardcore rewards, just go get it again from the hardcore vendor.

[mikarddo]

agree with a) to f)

e) just name your guild Something - old server, if the name is taken before you get around to transfering

g) Should increase max number of characters per server.

h) I'd prefer to have that transfer over with tokens that list what you have unlocked, but not a big deal otherwise.

What has to take over are shards (those cost either real money or a lot of time to build up) and shared and ingredients bank though (took years to get good supplies). And they should probably get rid of the TR cache completely, otherwise people will lose it on transfer if they forgot to empty it.

All good points.

e) Aye, that works well and can be done by the players.
g) I think that will be too cumbersome to be honest, and possibly lead to players creating fake alts to get more slots.
h) Aye, that would be better but I was aiming for a simple solution to reduce the work for the devs and the risk of it going wrong.

Tokens are a very real issue. I think they should simply make those account wide rather than server wide - with the exception of Hardcore.

Wrt TR cache - make it impossible to transfer without emptying it. That already makes sense.
Wrt shared bank - we can sort that ourselves as players so for the sake of keeping the coding simply I suggest we do just that. With transfering multiple characters there should be room for doing so.

[mikarddo]

Updated based on comments:

a) Make a brand new server.
b) Make server transfering to that server free.
c) Give every guild leader a token that lists the level of the guild.
d) The token creates a guild with that level and adds a maxed out airship. [easier than having to duplicate the exact ship for each guild and many guilds are already maxed out]
e) Let names sort themselves out.
f) Reinvite members once on the new server. [some hassle here but we will get over it]
g) Those with more characters than slots on the new server, tough, decide which to bring.
h) Those with server unlocks that do not transfer (I have some of those myself), tough, earn them again.
i) Make shards account bound rather than server bound (except for hardcore)
j) Make it impossible to transfer without emptying the TR cache (to avoid someone forgetting and complaining)
k) Shared bank and shared ing bank. The players can sort that themselves [again, a hassle but we will get over it]

The only hard parts are the token for the guild leader and maybe making shards account wide as far as I can see but I obviously have no way of knowing just how easy or hard it would be.

[fatherpirate]

Here is the rub, everyone knows they need a server merge.
but, SSG refuses because they in various words say it is not feasible.

Everyone is overlooking the obvious.
The game has grown in size way past what the custom un-upgradable game engine can handle.
It barely survives a few weeks of HCL.

With all the added content over the years it can barely handle nearly empty servers.

This game can only function on near empty servers so I suggest you get used to that.

The solution is a new game engine but SSG is not staffed for that.
They run mmorpg's other folks make, that are not staffed to make a new one.
Not their fault, they are just not a game making company.

We should likely just let the server merge thing drop.
If SSG figures out a way to do it, they would. (unlikely)

What you are likely to see is the elimination of the full raids and
see them all get converted into mini raids or just full party encounters.

[mikarddo]

What you are likely to see is the elimination of the full raids and
see them all get converted into mini raids or just full party encounters.

I very much doubt that we are in any way likely to see something like that nor do I see any indicating towards it. Besides, 12 man raids are already rather small encounters compared to other games and without raids it simply would not be a MMO.