Epic Trainers: Feywild 0 Saltmarch 2

[Loriega]

So Feywild is a "full expansion" vs Saltmarch being a "mini expansion".
Then why is there no epic trainer in Feywild but there are 2 in Saltmarch?

Can an Epic Trainer be placed in Feywild?

[Steeme]

Well, we're beating a dead horse here, but why not:

Please add an Epic Trainer to Wynwood Hall.

Please add a fast transport to the swamp and Bitterspine Palace.

Thank you.

[Wizard1406]

well, we're beating a dead horse here, but why not:

Please add an epic trainer to wynwood hall.

Please add a fast transport to the swamp and bitterspine palace.

Thank you.

/signed !

[Chacka_DDO]

Well, we're beating a dead horse here, but why not:

Please add an Epic Trainer to Wynwood Hall.

Please add a fast transport to the swamp and Bitterspine Palace.

Thank you.

Why "we're beating a dead horse here"? It feels simply odd that there are all class trainers but no epic trainer in Wynwood Hall, I would not complain if there was no trainer at all or only an epic trainer, but all class trainers and no epic trainer? :confused:
Of course with the new EDs and everyone can change EDs in any public area there is even less reason but anyhow, it is odd (IMHO)

For the quick and easy transport to the quest entrances, I don't know if this is really the best solution if everyone can do that you don't have any reason to discover the Feywild map...
As a player, I use of course the easiest and quickest way but from a game design perspective, the question is if this is really the best way.
One part of the fun in EverQuest for me was that you have to make your way through the world, and only certain classes (druids and wizards) had the option for a teleport to certain different destinations (wizard spire and druid circles) to make travel faster and easier.

As a bad example (only my opinion of course) in DDO, I have no reason at all to discover the Ravenloft map, no special items drop there (and the random items are no reason) and you get a quick transport to every quest entrance.

Actually, one point on my "wish list" for a better DDO would be a more open world but the question is how you design it en détail.

[Steeme]

Why "we're beating a dead horse here"?

Because it was asked for repeatedly, and their non-action implies that it's not going to happen.


For the quick and easy transport to the quest entrances, I don't know if this is really the best solution if everyone can do that you don't have any reason to discover the Feywild map...

It's the best solution. Fast transport only unlocks after you complete the saga - and takes you to two general locations that you can still explore. The idea is that it removes the server load from forced dungeon alert (I bog down the server every time I drag 4 accounts through the wilderness) and it reduces player fatigue from those that are simply playing the quests.

[Chacka_DDO]

Because it was asked for repeatedly, and their non-action implies that it's not going to happen.

Possibly I'm just wrong (notice I'm not a natural speaker) but my definition of "beating a dead horse" would be if something is by default completely senseless but adding an epic trainer to Feywild can be done and it is not wrong to keep asking for it at least until the developers give a good reason why they don't do it.




It's the best solution. Fast transport only unlocks after you complete the saga - and takes you to two general locations that you can still explore. The idea is that it removes the server load from forced dungeon alert (I bog down the server every time I drag 4 accounts through the wilderness) and it reduces player fatigue from those that are simply playing the quests.

Indeed DA is a good point...
But the question is if this is the only and best solution?

I think that travel on a horse should be changed so that monsters either ignore you if you pass them on a horse or they should quickly forget you (because they see that it is senseless to follow you because you are much faster anyway)
Also, that monsters can lift you from the saddle by hitting you for a few hit points is odd, another player had the idea that you get only interrupted when you use levers, open chests and doors when you fail a concentration check, this could also apply for riding a horse and horse riding should have only the restriction like invisible (dropping only on hostile actions but for example not on heals and buffs and playing a song).
Or the horse speed increases over time so that long journeys are shortened more in relation to shorter journeys.

Another idea would be that only one party member has to reach the quest the "normal" way and all other party members get the entry window at the moment one party member enters the quest and if someone joins a running quest he gets the entry window at the moment he joins the group (public option) or gets a quest share while the one who is in the quest shares the quest.

But all this is in my opinion better than just an instant teleport to the quest for everyone like in Ravenloft and would also avoid Dungeonm Alert and the unnecessary server load this causes.

[Wizard1406]

For the quick and easy transport to the quest entrances, I don't know if this is really the best solution if everyone can do that you don't have any reason to discover the Feywild map...
As a player, I use of course the easiest and quickest way but from a game design perspective, the question is if this is really the best way.


I think a good compromise would be: Discover the dungeon entrances once and then you can teleport directly to them. But I think it should persist through TR, as many quests are only run once per life.

I think they have problems making things persisting through TR ? So having teleports simply for everyone, like Ravenloft is good for quality of life, if it can't be coded to persist through TR.


No reason to do Ravenloft Explorer other than slayers is a problem of the item drop table really. Should drop some good stuff like Feywild etc.

[Valerianus]

Because it was asked for repeatedly, and their non-action implies that it's not going to happen.



It's the best solution. Fast transport only unlocks after you complete the saga - and takes you to two general locations that you can still explore. The idea is that it removes the server load from forced dungeon alert (I bog down the server every time I drag 4 accounts through the wilderness) and it reduces player fatigue from those that are simply playing the quests.


i agree with fast travel options obviously. options are always good.


but they know aggro and pathing is really bad for servers, dungeon alert was put in place for this reason, we were told. but they didn't care.

the most prehistoric form of time sink + marketable ways for mitigate it, only mitigate. i mean, movement. no more fast travels --> mounts.

like, remember when was introduced fast travel for shards like wheloon? sorta the same sad concept.


don't get me wrong, mounts are nice and welcome, but after travels like ravenloft or sharn easy quest access, the turnaround was pretty brutal from borderlands and on. cause mounts.

forget the super successful ravenloft, it was super successful also cause fast questing, but who cares right?

fast jump into action in a 100% quest instanced based game? oh it was deemed bad it seems. mount up and mitigate the inconvenience, or grouping becomes a sad run alone in red alert and die like a dog in the street if you are a new player, and if you are not dead, never catch up with the party anyway. funny! and so modern! now don't start with the "help each other", sure i will do that for a new player and no way i would left him\her dead, but yeah, they are not having fun.

BUT IMHO

since they finally started selling them like the cosmetics that they are, in the store where they belong + slot machine rolls, finally some real cash moves for fluff (fluff cause if you already have 1, any added mount is fluff) i'm confident in the future we will have forms of fast travel again in the new expansion. mounts are the new thing no more. but they will not add fast travels in soon-to-be-older-areas like feywild, mounts must be perceived, and btw they now really are, a total must-have if you group, they are now widespread and it is set in stone. it's also a way to tell new players "start spending immediately or go away, we want spenders only". given the sad state of the servers they don't want casuals to slow the tired hamsters down. you don't try the game, the game tries you.

[Aelonwy]

Because it was asked for repeatedly, and their non-action implies that it's not going to happen.


This^. I know for a fact that I personally requested a Fatespinner in Wynwood multiple times in multiple threads both on Lammania and general discussion threads. I pointed out that Feywild wilderness allows epic players of a vast range presumably able to level in the wilderness but nowhere in Feywild someone with whom to level. I also pointed out that a Fatespinner would be likely related to the Fates a group of women that determined ones fate and lifespan the very fabric of mortal reality, the Moirai in Greek mythology but also similar to the Morrigan of Irish/Celtic? mythology triple goddess(es) of destiny. Therefor a Fatespinner is not of any one realm or plane but a being that can cross any threshold and thus there is no lore reason why she should not be in the Feywild.

[GramercyRiff]

Have Lord Arden re-instate the banned Fatespinner. She was banned from the Feywild centuries ago and now she's done her time. Arden restores her to her rightful place in the Feywild. There. Mistake corrected. Fill in more lore if you want. It's ridiculous she's not in the Feywild, arguably the most magical place in all of DDO.

I don't really care about a transporter in Feywild. It's a nice looking place and it's not like riding places takes that long. I love the music too as it's some of the best in the game.

[droid327]

I really would like a quick travel up to the snow area. That's just a really annoying trip every time you need to repeat those quests, especially since it's mostly just winding up the mountain path. A Stormhorns style waypoint at the mountaintop and the bottom of the pixie village would seem appropriate. That still preserves you visiting all three areas for quests, but doesn't make you traverse them all every time. Just makes it a little more like Reavers, kinda


This^. I know for a fact that I personally requested a Fatespinner in Wynwood multiple times in multiple threads both on Lammania and general discussion threads. I pointed out that Feywild wilderness allows epic players of a vast range presumably able to level in the wilderness but nowhere in Feywild someone with whom to level. I also pointed out that a Fatespinner would be likely related to the Fates a group of women that determined ones fate and lifespan the very fabric of mortal reality, the Moirai in Greek mythology but also similar to the Morrigan of Irish/Celtic? mythology triple goddess(es) of destiny. Therefor a Fatespinner is not of any one realm or plane but a being that can cross any threshold and thus there is no lore reason why she should not be in the Feywild.

There's a Spinner in Keep and that's in Greyhawk IIRC so they've already dismissed any "only in Eberron" argument. Also isn't Fey a demiplane within Eberron, like the Plane of Shadow?

[Oxarhamar]

Possibly I'm just wrong (notice I'm not a natural speaker) but my definition of "beating a dead horse" would be if something is by default completely senseless but adding an epic trainer to Feywild can be done and it is not wrong to keep asking for it at least until the developers give a good reason why they don't do it.





Indeed DA is a good point...
But the question is if this is the only and best solution?

I think that travel on a horse should be changed so that monsters either ignore you if you pass them on a horse or they should quickly forget you (because they see that it is senseless to follow you because you are much faster anyway)
Also, that monsters can lift you from the saddle by hitting you for a few hit points is odd, another player had the idea that you get only interrupted when you use levers, open chests and doors when you fail a concentration check, this could also apply for riding a horse and horse riding should have only the restriction like invisible (dropping only on hostile actions but for example not on heals and buffs and playing a song).
Or the horse speed increases over time so that long journeys are shortened more in relation to shorter journeys.

Another idea would be that only one party member has to reach the quest the "normal" way and all other party members get the entry window at the moment one party member enters the quest and if someone joins a running quest he gets the entry window at the moment he joins the group (public option) or gets a quest share while the one who is in the quest shares the quest.

But all this is in my opinion better than just an instant teleport to the quest for everyone like in Ravenloft and would also avoid Dungeonm Alert and the unnecessary server load this causes.

There is still reason to run the explorer area and slayers in Fey

There would be more reason to run Fey slayer if the cap wasn't so low

RAVINLOFT had the best fast travel that should have become the standard


No reason to alter the way the horse works fine fast travel solves all those issues


An option to get a quest window when the first player stepped in would be great but, would do nothing for anyone who joins late

[droid327]

RAVINLOFT had the best fast travel that should have become the standard



In fairness, while RL is of course the most convenient for running quests...I haven't really ever explored through the wilderness much at all, because I've never had to. I'll run down the path from amber temple for slayers, that's about it. There is definitely merit to needing to unlock fast travel, or else just make the quests accessed from town like sharn

[Oxarhamar]

In fairness, while RL is of course the most convenient for running quests...I haven't really ever explored through the wilderness much at all, because I've never had to. I'll run down the path from amber temple for slayers, that's about it. There is definitely merit to needing to unlock fast travel, or else just make the quests accessed from town like sharn

Getting rid of explorer area is not the answer just because you choose not to explore

I do Ravenloft slayers groups and while some players are going out by temple I use the rest of the map

Sharn has no explorer outside of Cogs because the quest take place in town so do many other quests in the harbor market houses etc


Now Sharns big problems is the flagging lockout is antigroup building

Required flagging for travel is fine if it persist through TR running out to Stormhorms every time or taking the death taxi is so blah

[Jerevth]

Have Lord Arden re-instate the banned Fatespinner. She was banned from the Feywild centuries ago and now she's done her time. Arden restores her to her rightful place in the Feywild. There. Mistake corrected. Fill in more lore if you want. It's ridiculous she's not in the Feywild, arguably the most magical place in all of DDO.

I don't really care about a transporter in Feywild. It's a nice looking place and it's not like riding places takes that long. I love the music too as it's some of the best in the game.

Make Beatrice the Fatespinner in Wynnwood Hall as her penance for aiding Hyrsam in all the chaos, once Witchhunt is completed, she'll appear in a set of iron stocks in at the foot of the stairs to fulfill the role.

[Seph1roth5]

This thread derailed fast lol, fast travel options are totally unrelated to epic trainer.

That being said, there's no reason why fey doesn't/can't have an epic trainer. Make it the hut from knight who cried windmill.

[Loriega]

bump
it's an issue and one that persists day in day out.