End game fire nuker ED suggestions?

[SockyMcSockerton]

I took a year off from DDO and I still have my Alchemist nuker. 55 Fate points available to spend and I know I need to dump my Master of Spellvials when I get around to it. Any suggestions on where to spend my Epic Destiny points? Is there a nuker template that I can use so I don't have to reinvent the wheel here?

[Enderoc]

I don't know...I just took shadowdancer to run ahead of the party to D-door just to say I got lost and go uh oh when it goes dungeon alert red
That one never gets old....
Shadow Walk FTW
"Where's the rogue"
"Scouting Ahead....Guys I think I got lost I am at the Entrance , holy **** how are we dungeon alert red"
*Ding*
"It's a good thing you guys were too Ubber to use that shrine...omw I see where I got turned around"
*comes in saves day*
"Just be Glad I have high stealth...
You know you can't zerg everything right?"

[PedXing20]

11 in Shiradi with mantle
35(?)ish in draconic
Rest in primal or EA
Give that a try and see how it goes

Yes drop MoSV - got nerfed to be largely useless for what I suspect is your Gisty build.

I don't see a lot of alchies at end game, but, well played they are spell viable. Reasonable at a lot of things, but not the best at anything (IMO)

[mr420247]

21 shiradi free helpless, 30 + ea free intensify, 7 + primal

Most stuff in drac tied to the mantle epic strikes

[SockyMcSockerton]

Thanks all!

[Agr33n3]

I took a year off from DDO and I still have my Alchemist nuker. 55 Fate points available to spend and I know I need to dump my Master of Spellvials when I get around to it. Any suggestions on where to spend my Epic Destiny points? Is there a nuker template that I can use so I don't have to reinvent the wheel here?

I am also running an Alchemist, and the life has been quite smooth.

There are a few setups I am suggesting with 55 points.

1) Mix of Damage and Healing
37 or 39 in Exalted Angel (Depending on if you like the Epic Moment) for Epic Strike, Mantle, Cure Mass SLA, and Holy Fireball.
14 in Draconic for DC's and temp SP.
0-2 Fatesinger for SP and MRR.

2) Damage focus 1 (Involves Ruin/G. Ruin):
37 Draconic for Ruin Int., Dragonform, DC's
16 Fatesinger for DC's and Masquerade.

3) Damage focus 2 (Swap to COLD)
41 Magus for ALL T5's (MAYBE mantle)
14 Exalted Angel for Wings and either DC's, Mass Cure SLA, or Holy Presence (if using E.A. Mantle)

4) Damage focus 3 (Swap to COLD)
41 Magus for ALL T5's and Epic Strike (NO mantle) or 41 Draconic for Dragonform and Ruin Intensified.
13 Shiradi for Mantle stuff.

I am not a huge fan of Primal Avatar in U52, though I am sure there are.

I personally use cold for alchemist, but fire give access to Gold Breath as another spell. Whether or not you need this spell and benefits of different elements are up for debate.

[mr420247]

Tested the holy fireballs there ok but nothing special on a lock with nothing else sure why not alch not really needed

Spell points conservation not really needed right now if you farmed some ross's my alt rarely ever needs to shrine

I wouldn't spend more then 34 pts in ea max to open up more points for a tier 2 or 3 backup in your 3'rd tree

Pretty sure you get more dcs with shiradi and ea n tier 2 primal then you will with drac

with 39 helpless boost + 15 if your taking crush weakness or more universal crit multiplier

Ruins still single shot only and expensive probably alot better for a sorc or wiz then alchemist

[Agr33n3]

Tested the holy fireballs there ok but nothing special on a lock with nothing else sure why not alch not really needed

Spell points conservation not really needed right now if you farmed some ross's my alt rarely ever needs to shrine

I wouldn't spend more then 34 pts in ea max to open up more points for a tier 2 or 3 backup in your 3'rd tree

Pretty sure you get more dcs with shiradi and ea n tier 2 primal then you will with drac

with 39 helpless boost + 15 if your taking crush weakness or more universal crit multiplier

Ruins still single shot only and expensive probably alot better for a sorc or wiz then alchemist

I personally do not take Ruin or G. Ruin on Alchemist; I find that the single-target dps is decent enough for questing in low reapers (R1-4) without too much trouble and with my PL's and reaper points (36 R. pts., 11 Heroic, 2 Epic, 2 Iconic).

Spell point conservation is MASSIVELY different on warlock than on alchemist. Warlocks have the option to toggle on Eldritch Blast and use it indefinitely for 0 spell cost, along with Sticken, Consume, and all E.B.-based SLA's. Alchemists might resort to cheap SLA's and un-meta'd spells, use the reaction spiking in Pyrite, or a combination of both. Warlocks can also be instakillers - the closest Alchemists can come is 'Frog'ing and turning to gold.


Crush Weakness is a great feat, I have not considered it outside of melee but it seems like a great damage multiplier. for anyone in a group causing helplessness.


For Cold-focused Alchemists, the Shiradi mantle with Stay Frosty is much more powerful than it initially seems because of the scaling of the Cold damage from the mantle. Because this damage scales with your spellpower, at 700 Cold spellpower scaling at 200%, this averages out to about 1,440 more damage per cast on Elite.

Stay Frosty proc chance: 30%
Stay Frosty Damage: 200-400 (average of 300)
Stay Frosty S.P. Multiplier: 200% (2x damage)
Supposed Cold S.P. at cap: 700 (8x damage)

(0.30)(300)(2)(8)= 1,440 on Elite.

On a proc, the Stay Frosty does (300)(2)(8)=4,800 on Elite.

For comparison, the Draconic mantle gives an extra 1,330 more damage per cast on elite with an internal cooldown of 5 seconds.

Attune the Arcane proc chance: 100%
Attune the Arcane Damage: 7-12 damage per caster level (35 at cap now for an average of 332)
Attune the Arcane S.P. Multiplier: between 35-50%. Testing has showed it is way below 100%. (We will liberally say 50%).
Supposed Cold S.P. at cap: 700 (8x damage)

(1.00)(332)(0.5)(8)= 1,330 extra damage on a single target, 5 second cooldown.



Important to note, the faster you are casting, the more Stay Frosty damage you get. Because there is no internal cooldown, you can throw down 4-5 AoE attacks and proc your Stay Frosty on one or multiple enemies on EACH CAST, making it orders of magnitude more effective than Attune the Arcane at clearing mobs. Raiding situations might be different, I do not have much endgame raiding experience to be honest.

If your fight lasts 10 seconds, you will get 2-3 procs of Attune off, totalling around 4k damage. In the same time, casting 12 spells in an AoE (given 5 enemies per cast, and hitting more on multiple-hit spells like Meteor Swarm or Multivial) can bring in around 26k damage.

Using the Shiradi mantle is incredible if you whip out spells super quickly and end fights in a few seconds. On the other hand, short fights will only see 1-2 Attune procs.

[mr420247]

Def ice go magus tier 5 but must strip immunity or don't bother problem with drac n magus jack n **** what else is new

Immunity stripping for all caster tier 5 or sell us 1 single tree that can do that n aoe for casters wo aoe or that ability i'd pay so much for that

Alchs r the kings of cheap aoe n dots use em right n no fail shiradi procs vs 0 damage evasion mobs run 30 content at 20 ez

I prefer fire cuz primal tier 4 evasion n reborn in fire is the new meld for fire casters n nothing heals from the light damage when u do run into immunes

my alt has 3 hpls 34 r pts 30 etrs cuz i just started em finishin then doin 1 wiz itr then 3 sdk 1 rogue 9 lock 10 barb just for the pls then probly 18 wiz 2 monk grandmaster of forms if i care bout rxp

And the new kama gets fixed tils perma spell absorb works be almost invincible fight club til mate

More i think bout it lgs salt kama for 26 off hand n maybe alcemical when u get one new set up fil wise 5 ds 3 coal n up to u rest ele avatar for crits done

A 18 warlock w 2 fvs or 4 never runs out can go all out but immunity stripping is its only problem since tiefling is sub par

[Agr33n3]

Def ice go magus tier 5 but must strip immunity or don't bother problem with drac n magus jack n **** what else is new

Immunity stripping for all caster tier 5 or sell us 1 single tree that can do that n aoe for casters wo aoe or that ability i'd pay so much for that

Alchs r the kings of cheap aoe n dots use em right n no fail shiradi procs vs 0 damage evasion mobs run 30 content at 20 ez

I prefer fire cuz primal tier 4 evasion n reborn in fire is the new meld for fire casters n nothing heals from the light damage when u do run into immunes

my alt has 3 hpls 34 r pts 30 etrs cuz i just started em finishin then doin 1 wiz itr then 3 sdk 1 rogue 9 lock 10 barb just for the pls then probly 18 wiz 2 monk grandmaster of forms if i care bout rxp

And the new kama gets fixed tils perma spell absorb works be almost invincible fight club til mate

More i think bout it lgs salt kama for 26 off hand n maybe alcemical when u get one new set up fil wise 5 ds 3 coal n up to u rest ele avatar for crits done

A 18 warlock w 2 fvs or 4 never runs out can go all out but immunity stripping is its only problem since tiefling is sub par

Reading this gave me a migraine lol. I hope you fix your keyboard soon, it must be hard to type without punctuation.


I have a few notes to make.


Going T5 in Magus will be hard to squeeze in if you want both Draconic's epic strike nad the Shiradi mantle. The shiradi mantle requires 7 points for Stay Good/Frosty, plus 21 in Draconic for double Dragon Breath damage leaves you with only 27 points left. Either either you have 60+ Destiny Points, or you sacrifice doubling your breath damage. Seems like a suboptimal spec for ED's.

Alchemists are great in both heroics and epics given their automatic immunity bypassing. Personally, I think it is horrible for the game and encourages lazy spell rotations instead of choosing spells for specific enemies (why on EARTH does a fire Sorc's Fireball kill a fire elemental?? I don't see the logic), but its in the game and it doesn't seem like its going away or being worked around.

With respect to Stay Good/Frosty and the arcane battery that is the Alchemist, Warlocks also make fantastic use of Shiradi's mantle. Because Stay Good can proc on each element of your warlock blast (Pact damage, base damage, extra light damage from ES, extra damage from SLA's that use the Eldritch Blast as base damage), percent-based procs go off all the time. This also works with LGS items such as Salt, Ooze, and Ash, to increase your groups damage.

Fire is great for any casters if you choose tiefling (I did for my warlock) for the immunity stripping, though going T4 in Primal makes you sacrifice wither Draconic's T5 or the Shiradi mantle because of a lack of AP (same issue as above paragraph).



I don't believe Tiefling is subpar. It is one of the strongest races, good on melees and great on casters.
Let's compare Tiefling to the two most popular race: human and elf (according to DDO Audit, a.k.a Playeraudit.com).

Humans get:
An extra feat at level 1
2 of any ability score from cores
Access to any action boost at 2/3's potency
Use of 1 of 4 Dragonmark's
A TON of healing amp (80 total)
Minor weapon bonuses from Fighting Style
Access to Heroism and GH with AB charges.

Elves get:
+2 dex, -2 Con
+6% to hit
2 Dex from cores
Phiarlan dragonmark (Displacement at T3)
Bonuses with Elven weapons
Reduced Arcane spell failure
Access to Arcane Archer (14 points deep)
+3% doublestrike, doubleshot, dodge, and dodge bypass


Tiefling gets:
Fear immunity
+2 Cha
Fire immunity equal to Character level
Option to add either or both Cold and Acid resistance equal to character level
+35 Fire Spell Power from cores
+2 Cha from cores
Wand and Scroll Mastery
+6 MRR
Scorch SLA
+4% crit with all spells, additional 4% with fire spells
Ability to bypass fire resistance (50% uptime usually, can be 100% with a second scorch spell)



Those are some of what is great about each race. Some classes may benefit from Elf or the racial tree (like reduced ASF for casters, some bow Pure clerics, Displacement for a questing tank) but I know I'm picking fear immunity over an extra feat all day (i.e. Tiefling is better than Human IMO). I hate not being able to do anything while feared.

[mr420247]

Yes it is hard to fit it all in my main has 63 d points and did all etrs and is still missing 1 or 2 pts hopefully that gets fixed

Then when they release the 3 new ed trees soonish hopefully by summer that should get us 3 more points at least

If i was going drac id go all out with it vs shiradi they don't synergize well 1 or the other, primal is just too good a tree to give up with the 3'rd tree being ea or magus

Those no fail heals make the entire alch heal tree and the accelerate feat almost useless i dumped most of it just not needed any more

Then you can take heighten or maybe try and fit in epic toughness and my guys are all dragonborn great for alchemist

[Agr33n3]

Yes it is hard to fit it all in my main has 63 d points and did all etrs and is still missing 1 or 2 pts hopefully that gets fixed

Then when they release the 3 new ed trees soonish hopefully by summer that should get us 3 more points at least

If i was going drac id go all out with it vs shiradi they don't synergize well 1 or the other, primal is just too good a tree to give up with the 3'rd tree being ea or magus

Those no fail heals make the entire alch heal tree and the accelerate feat almost useless i dumped most of it just not needed any more

Then you can take heighten or maybe try and fit in epic toughness and my guys are all dragonborn great for alchemist

Endgame alchemists doing spell dps usually spend either 0 or 6 points in Apothecary: 6 points get you immunity to magic missiles that can't be dispelled.

Instead, dump points into Falconry, going for No Mercy to add 30% helplessness damage. Between your transmutation spells (or illusion in my case as I went T5 Shadowdancer for Weird) and CC from other party members, this will add up very quickly. A common split for Alchemists is 42 Bombardier, 23 Falconry, and 15 points in either Feydark or a racial tree (Feydark for color spray, I used Gnome for the same thing but with more DC's).

One issue with going T5 in Draconic means you lack a nice AoE SLA (like Holy Fireball from EA or Zero Degree Comet from MotE. This means you either heavily rotate your Alchemist spells/SLA's, take Ruin/Greater Ruin for costly single-target damage, or lack a T5 spell (which, if you've read the tooltips, do a TON more damage than class spells/SLAs).

What are the 5-6 spells you are rotating through at endgame? Mine are Multivial, Multivial SLA, Elemental Obliteration SLA, Vein Freeze, and Bitter Frost Burst. Spells I use at the start of combat or situationally are color spray, Frost Concentration, Smoke Bomb, and Weird.

Note that I didn't take any T5 E.D. SLA, and instead used Weird. I found myself using some spellpoints to heal the melees who were overeager with grabbing agro, so a ranged multi-target instakill works well for group play IME.

Shadowdancer is AWESOME for spammers, like Magic Missile casters or Alchemists. I use the epic strike to get sneak attack dice (plus equal amounts of die as untyped damage) on my spells, and though the damage isn't substantial per stack, the AoE and speed of spellcasting makes for some good extra dps. With Shadowdancers' Epic Strike and Shiradi's Mantle, you can add a lot of extra damage.


Also, accelerate works on all your regular alchemist spells, including all the damage spells you are casting. Accelerate is awesome, but I don't like that it feels like a second quicken for exclusively Alchemists and (some) Artificers.

[mr420247]

Ya got falcon on the main alt needs 3 more pts so 9 racials for that

SD and weird played a pm instakiller forever doin rxp not into it anymore sure its still viable just not into it

Might have to look at SD some more next couple etrs sounds decent probably on some itrs

I dumped all my trans dcs and spell pen n just focus on evoc conj all that matters

I prefer ea for cc alch cc is really bad trans vs fort close range no thanks

flame pillar n judgement are great cc at long n unlimited range so alch cc not really needed

Rotations 2 dots but can scroll stuff for more mm sla, fiery obliteration, multivial, cindersmoke, the tier 4 debuffs lightning, acid, flamepillar, elemental combination, molotov cocktail

And my new favorite oh **** button reborn in fire insta heal fire nuke aoe double damage n 25 dodge

Dumped accelerate n embolden this life for epic toughness runs as fast as ever n easier with more hp for the big hits

Dracs ok but close range rather not get that close on high skulls

[Agr33n3]

Ya got falcon on the main alt needs 3 more pts so 9 racials for that

SD and weird played a pm instakiller forever doin rxp not into it anymore sure its still viable just not into it

Might have to look at SD some more next couple etrs sounds decent probably on some itrs

I dumped all my trans dcs and spell pen n just focus on evoc conj all that matters

I prefer ea for cc alch cc is really bad trans vs fort close range no thanks

flame pillar n judgement are great cc at long n unlimited range so alch cc not really needed

Rotations 2 dots but can scroll stuff for more mm sla, fiery obliteration, multivial, cindersmoke, the tier 4 debuffs lightning, acid, flamepillar, elemental combination, molotov cocktail

And my new favorite oh **** button reborn in fire insta heal fire nuke aoe double damage n 25 dodge

Dumped accelerate n embolden this life for epic toughness runs as fast as ever n easier with more hp for the big hits

Dracs ok but close range rather not get that close on high skulls

Just a note, but fire spell-power does not interact with the Shiradi mantle for scaling purposes of damage. You should choose either light for Stay Good or cold for Stay Frosty, as the 3d100 + 100 damage scales with 200% of the appropriate aforementioned spell-powers. If not, you should use the Draconic mantle for the DoT based on your Draconic Bloodline, or use Exalted Angel's Mantle for the auto-heal.

Accelerate is great for alchemists IMO. It becomes really apparent when ceilings get low and your bottles start hitting it. Also, it's key for lobbing potions long distances.

I would also add that Intensity is probably better on caster Alchemist than Epic Toughness: Alchemists get the lowest HP from any class and wear cloth armor, making their MRR trash. If you are thinking about high skull gameplay, you want more killing power as you will die in 1 or 2 hits either way, and an extra 50 or even 100 hp will not make a substantial difference if you have agro. Additionally, the extra spell-power will come in handy when you have someone actively tanking mobs and you are focusing entirely on dropping mobs. . Less time mobs are alive means less damage they can deal.

[mr420247]

Def agreed i do have the 3 spell crit multipliers fire light and positive and intensify i always take at 24 and fit in well spring rarely get to use it most reds just die too fast

The night revels robe is great too 90 sec crit multipier clicky

Low ceilings only matter on a few quests once you have them memorized you just charge in to mid range n start blasting or take it to there face they usually go down with a 1-2 shot combo