The Xp on level 18 quests is way too low.

[krimsonrane]

That's it.
You can run all the level 18's in IQ, High Road, and Heart of Madness on H/E without gaining a level. A 20th level 3+ time TR might get 3 epic ranks.
You can get more experience on some level 6 and 8 quests than level 18. Running the Kobolds New Ringleader at level 2 is nearly the same xp as running A Stay At The In on H/E.

It makes no sense.

[Simard]

That's it.
You can run all the level 18's in IQ, High Road, and Heart of Madness on H/E without gaining a level. A 20th level 3+ time TR might get 3 epic ranks.
You can get more experience on some level 6 and 8 quests than level 18. Running the Kobolds New Ringleader at level 2 is nearly the same xp as running A Stay At The In on H/E.

It makes no sense.

The one thing that makes sense for IQ is that back in the day XP wasn’t an issue for those quests. You mostly ran them when you were capped anyway. It was bolted on as an afterthought and nobody complained. I expect High Road and HoM suffered because when they were setting XP for those they looked at the peer quests in IQ and Dreaming Dark and set them to similar amounts.

[krimsonrane]

The one thing that makes sense for IQ is that back in the day XP wasn’t an issue for those quests. You mostly ran them when you were capped anyway. It was bolted on as an afterthought and nobody complained. I expect High Road and HoM suffered because when they were setting XP for those they looked at the peer quests in IQ and Dreaming Dark and set them to similar amounts.

Probably. That needs to be fixed.

[Seph1roth5]

Many many MANY quests have garbage xp. They need to do another xp boost like they did a year or few ago where they took the least run quests and bumped up their xp. BUT, without that **** where they took the most run quests and lowered their xp. Maybe for once just do only good stuff?

[droid327]

Many many MANY quests have garbage xp. They need to do another xp boost like they did a year or few ago where they took the least run quests and bumped up their xp. BUT, without that **** where they took the most run quests and lowered their xp. Maybe for once just do only good stuff?

I'd go a step further, and say they need a comprehensive XP overhaul similar to how they put all items on a unified scaling pattern...basically, take every quest, look at how long it takes minimum to complete on a generic build (ie zerg run but not ignoring mobs), look how difficult it is compared to other at-level quests in terms of mob density/scaling, trap damage, etc., define an extra multiplier for mechanics beyond dungeon crawl+puzzles (e.g. platforming, escort, fail condition, random spawn hunting, annoying to get to/flagging required, etc.). Time+difficulty should be the only factors involved - things like "non xp rewards" should not balance in against xp, ie Slavers crafting mats. Optionals should also be balanced solely by extra time it takes and relative difficulty to complete.

Tldr quests should be standardized for xp/min unless they're unusually easy or hard

[Weemadarthur]

I'd go a step further, and say they need a comprehensive XP overhaul similar to how they put all items on a unified scaling pattern...basically, take every quest, look at how long it takes minimum to complete on a generic build (ie zerg run but not ignoring mobs), look how difficult it is compared to other at-level quests in terms of mob density/scaling, trap damage, etc., define an extra multiplier for mechanics beyond dungeon crawl+puzzles (e.g. platforming, escort, fail condition, random spawn hunting, annoying to get to/flagging required, etc.). Time+difficulty should be the only factors involved - things like "non xp rewards" should not balance in against xp, ie Slavers crafting mats. Optionals should also be balanced solely by extra time it takes and relative difficulty to complete.

Tldr quests should be standardized for xp/min unless they're unusually easy or hard

I agree in principle but I can see a few problems trying to do this. For example what xp should amber temple give? I know players that take a good 30 minutes to do a quick run where as I can run it in less than 2 mins for a fast run and under 5 for a long one. The pit would be another example, I know players that can run that in 10 mins or so but for me its an hour long quest on a good day. Trying to work out what is an exceptable time for quite a few quests will be very difficult as who do you set the xp for when there is such a huge difference. Set xp for Amber based on my runs and it would be an absolute min xp quest. Set it to the 30 min run and its then a max xp quest that can be run in under 2 mins.

If you then take into account the difference in run times between different classes and you start opening a whole can of worms. Some quests will be quick on a caster but a slog on a melee and visa versa. Do you set xp for an optimal party, a random pug or a solo player?

In short I agree that xp should be standardized but xp per min has such a huge variance that I'm not sure I agree that that should be used for a measuring stick.

[Alled78]

That's it.
You can run all the level 18's in IQ, High Road, and Heart of Madness on H/E without gaining a level. A 20th level 3+ time TR might get 3 epic ranks.
You can get more experience on some level 6 and 8 quests than level 18. Running the Kobolds New Ringleader at level 2 is nearly the same xp as running A Stay At The In on H/E.

It makes no sense.

Yes . in never run lvl 18 quest in last 2 years ( i dis all racial lives) They are a waste of time.

But hey they are fun quests with low xp and useless loot....

Would like to run them in case of an xp boost.

[Enderoc]

Once you do get 20 man...just take it to thirty and knock out 12 epls from a single sphere before doing heroics again. All the real boosts are in epls. Nabbing those first before doing the hard grind through heroic levels really is a quality of life improvement and speeds things up for racial and class past lives.
I would do martial or Divine for the AC or PRR.
12 past lives of martial gives a bonus of 60 AC by level 30...24 at level one.
With plus 24 AC at level one most heroic reaper will be your playground to knock out your racial and past lives way quicker trust me.

[Seph1roth5]

Yeah I'm going to say no to standardized xp because I feel that would screw us over lol.

[yfernbottom]

For me the real issue is whether there is enough XP available in a level range so that finding something to do doesn't feel like a chore. Quests in those really think level ranges need to be worth more XP or more quests need to be added. However all the priority for new content lately has been 1-5 and 30.

[Tilomere]

They last time they looked at IQ they nerfed it. :)

[Wizard1406]

Yeah 1-5 has too much , I rather want some 11-14 quests because Necro 3 is junk,, Planar Eyes is meh xp and Necro 4 and Sands only good with a party (often hard to come by). I usually end up starting Sharn early instead and of course then xp is missing at the end and I need to do not so good xp quests like the lvl 18 quests mentioned.

[krimsonrane]

For me the real issue is whether there is enough XP available in a level range so that finding something to do doesn't feel like a chore. Quests in those really think level ranges need to be worth more XP or more quests need to be added. However all the priority for new content lately has been 1-5 and 30.

Yea. Level 18 is extremely limited in number and all the quests have terrible XP.

[droid327]

I agree in principle but I can see a few problems trying to do this. For example what xp should amber temple give? I know players that take a good 30 minutes to do a quick run where as I can run it in less than 2 mins for a fast run and under 5 for a long one. The pit would be another example, I know players that can run that in 10 mins or so but for me its an hour long quest on a good day. Trying to work out what is an exceptable time for quite a few quests will be very difficult as who do you set the xp for when there is such a huge difference. Set xp for Amber based on my runs and it would be an absolute min xp quest. Set it to the 30 min run and its then a max xp quest that can be run in under 2 mins.

If you then take into account the difference in run times between different classes and you start opening a whole can of worms. Some quests will be quick on a caster but a slog on a melee and visa versa. Do you set xp for an optimal party, a random pug or a solo player?

In short I agree that xp should be standardized but xp per min has such a huge variance that I'm not sure I agree that that should be used for a measuring stick.

Thats why I said "on a generic character"...this actually popped back in my head earlier tonight. Take all the completion times from a certain period, like the last year or so, and then divide by the percentile of times the quest gets successfully completed. That accounts for both real-world clear times, and real-world difficulty (the more often people fail a quest, the more XP it gives to complete). Then multiply that factor by some base XP for the level of the quest, and then a multiplier for NHER (well ideally not R anymore).

[Artos_Fabril]

That's it.
You can run all the level 18's in IQ, High Road, and Heart of Madness on H/E without gaining a level. A 20th level 3+ time TR might get 3 epic ranks.
You can get more experience on some level 6 and 8 quests than level 18. Running the Kobolds New Ringleader at level 2 is nearly the same xp as running A Stay At The In on H/E.

It makes no sense.
What if they just revist IQ and DD quest XP (and loot), adding epic (25ish) and legendary versions/upgrade mats as part of a Sarlona expansion? As an added bonus, they can throw the whole codex storyline in the garbage where it belongs.

[thedip]

In my view all heroic quest XP should be increased by at least 10-20%.

We have the heroic grind, racial grind, iconic grind, epic grind and the soon to be legendary grind. Please for the love of all that is holy throw us a bone and make some of the grinds slightly shorter.

[Jerevth]

In my view all heroic quest XP should be increased by at least 10-20%.

We have the heroic grind, racial grind, iconic grind, epic grind and the soon to be legendary grind. Please for the love of all that is holy throw us a bone and make some of the grinds slightly shorter.

What if you could advance to the next level automatically after running X number of quests in level. (challenges count as 1/2 a quest).
You end up foregoing the favor as a result but it does smooth progression/grind.

[krimsonrane]

In my view all heroic quest XP should be increased by at least 10-20%.

We have the heroic grind, racial grind, iconic grind, epic grind and the soon to be legendary grind. Please for the love of all that is holy throw us a bone and make some of the grinds slightly shorter.

That sounds like a start. Especially with a cap increase coming. I'm not the type to go from 1-30 in 3 days. It takes 6-8 weeks under my schedule.
Some of these quests need a 100-200% increase. Like the level 18's.

[krimsonrane]

What if you could advance to the next level automatically after running X number of quests in level. (challenges count as 1/2 a quest).
You end up foregoing the favor as a result but it does smooth progression/grind.

Not fond of the idea. I prefer XP as you go methods. Doing XYZ and you level sounds boring.

[Abilbo]

That's it.
You can run all the level 18's in IQ, High Road, and Heart of Madness on H/E without gaining a level. A 20th level 3+ time TR might get 3 epic ranks.
You can get more experience on some level 6 and 8 quests than level 18. Running the Kobolds New Ringleader at level 2 is nearly the same xp as running A Stay At The In on H/E.

It makes no sense.

So your level 20 and running HE content and not gaining enough exp? Ummm have you tried running EPIC Elite content?

[krimsonrane]

So your level 20 and running HE content and not gaining enough exp? Ummm have you tried running EPIC Elite content?

I'm running solo elite two levels below me. So 18 leet at 20. I'll get to EE at 22. At least I would normally. But now I may reconsider. Not really feeling like this ED revamp was a good thing so far. Between the initial points at level 20 and level 23 there isn't much to even spend points on.

[elvesunited]

Been a while since I've run these quests. My last heroic life I focused on:

1) Quests that have a chance of dropping valuable named loot.
2) Quests that belong to a saga ( but not eveningstar ones which I play mainly in epic )
3) Quests that provide favor rewards that can only be played in heroic ?( bank space, inventory, hp )
4) Quests that flag for a raid ( even if that raid is only available in epic )
5) Shavarath quests because I'm addicted to yugo potions
6) Quests that can be played at reaper

I completed the last cogs quest I was level 18 with 100,000 XP left to go before capping my heroic XP and I had the Shavarath and level 19 Eveningstar quests ( for favor ) to go. ( and I had saved all my saga rewards to use after taking level 20 ) I'm not skipping level 18 or 19 quests because the XP is too low. I'm skipping them because I'm always running on the verge of being capped.

I was hoping in the last update they'd "fix" this by allowing level 18 or 19 quests to be played on heroic reaper by low epics but that didn't happen. Given that some characters actually got more powerful at low epics then they were before despite the level gating I don't see it changing now.

[Abilbo]

I'm running solo elite two levels below me. So 18 leet at 20. I'll get to EE at 22. At least I would normally. But now I may reconsider. Not really feeling like this ED revamp was a good thing so far. Between the initial points at level 20 and level 23 there isn't much to even spend points on.

The problem that you are having is that you are running HEROIC content as an EPIC character. If you want to level, run EPIC content.

[Jerevth]

Not fond of the idea. I prefer XP as you go methods. Doing XYZ and you level sounds boring.

Fair enough.

[krimsonrane]

The problem that you are having is that you are running HEROIC content as an EPIC character. If you want to level, run EPIC content.

What you're really saying is that once you reach 20, skip level 18-19 quests.
The fact that level 18 quests aren't worth entering due to low XP is the whole point of the post.

[Abilbo]

What you're really saying is that once you reach 20, skip level 18-19 quests.
The fact that level 18 quests aren't worth entering due to low XP is the whole point of the post.

That's not what I said at all. If you want to LEVEL do EPIC quests if your an EPIC character.

If you want to run the heroic quests at that level that will complete a saga, that you can turn in whether your heroic or epic, that works.

If you want to run the quests for the favor, that works as well.

Many of the quests in that level range were created Pre-Epic and their is exp was designed to get you from 18 or 19 to 20. The quests that were released after Epics came out, have both Heroic and Epic versions, both giving drastic differences in EXP. Take Detour for Example. At heroic its level 18 giving 6K base exp at level 24 its giving 21K base exp.

I don't think heroic quests are designed to level you in epics, nor do I think they should be. If you are already 2-3 ranks into level 20, doing the House P and D chains at level 20 should be more than enough to level you, and then the LOD chain and moving on into EStar will continue nicely. If you are a first time into Epics then you should have no diffficulty leveling up. If you find the quests difficult, then run them on Hard, if you find that easier. There are 5 Epic Sagas associated with Estar quests that you can use to level.

Leveling 2 levels over is a great way to level in Heroics. Once you hit Epics, that changes. Heroic quests should not net you enough EXP to gain epic levels.

[hit_fido]

What you're really saying is that once you reach 20, skip level 18-19 quests.
The fact that level 18 quests aren't worth entering due to low XP is the whole point of the post.

You'll clear almost 200k xp before any bonuses for the two heroic sagas Perils and Huntsilver. Those both include the high road (18) and storm horns (19) quests. What Goes Up is great xp and the base xp for Break in the Ice and Trackers Trap are pretty high too. To me those sagas make the quest chains well worth it from an xp standpoint. They aren't necessary if you just plan on reincarnating at 20, but in that case you no longer need to run any quests over base level 16 to hit 20 on a 3rd life anyway.

I think you have a good case for the IQ/Inspiration quests. Those always struck me as very situational. Low mob density and small maps but very fat and harder hitting mobs. For me personally they're a pain on a melee but trivial on a caster. But objectively speaking they're on the lower end for base xp compared with quests at +/- 1 level and they don't have any saga attached to help sweeten the reward.

[OfElectricMen]

What you're really saying is that once you reach 20, skip level 18-19 quests.
The fact that level 18 quests aren't worth entering due to low XP is the whole point of the post.

NO, that's not what they're saying and you know it. And you even admit when you say that you'll get to level 20 quests when you're level 22, which means when you are level 21, a legit EPIC level character, you're going to be running Heroic Elite level 19 quests and complaining about how the XP is not good enough.

[Enoach]

I think this would outline a good argument to add a Heroic Saga to the IQ quest line. There are enough quests located here. That would also make this an option for those that want to level and then proceed into epics.

[Weemadarthur]

I think this would outline a good argument to add a Heroic Saga to the IQ quest line. There are enough quests located here. That would also make this an option for those that want to level and then proceed into epics.

Best suggestion in this thread so far. Pretty please with cherries on top... and extra sprinkles... please please make this happen!

[TophatAces]

I think the main issue here is that there are a whole bunch of quests that are completely unviable for any reason other than favour.

All the level 18 and 19 quests are avoided by all .

People instead run all the 15s holding as much as they can before taking 18 and then run the 16 and. 17s until hitting 20.

Some good quests that have no place in heroics and no place in epic.

It's caused by the elite is 2 levels higher than named buy level 20 heroic is not epic level 20 .

[ahpook]

What you're really saying is that once you reach 20, skip level 18-19 quests.
The fact that level 18 quests aren't worth entering due to low XP is the whole point of the post.

Well that is the system that SSG has built. Because they chose to create a hard line between Epic and Heroic, the level 18 and 19 quests are not very useful. I haven't run any of those (except for favor) because it makes no sense. I run level 17s on elite or R1-2 and end up skipping anything 18 or 19 because of that. A boost to their XP may have made me rethink that strategy but with the ED changes it is just as easy now to jump on Carnival R1 when one hits 20.

That is not to say that you are not right about the awful XP. It is one of the factors that cause these quests to ignored but I am not certain that a reasonable increase is enough to change things in this reaper focused game that has evolved. SSG should really look at the leveling patterns they have encouraged with their heroic to epic transition. If they really want to maintain the disccontinuity, then they should move the level 19's upto 20 and boost their XP to encourage their play. The Amrath quests are notoriously awful for the XP to time ratio. At least the dreaming dark quests are fairly quick.

[Weemadarthur]

If they really want to maintain the disccontinuity, then they should move the level 19's upto 20 and boost their XP to encourage their play. The Amrath quests are notoriously awful for the XP to time ratio. At least the dreaming dark quests are fairly quick.

And we have a contender for 2nd best suggestion in this thread. Please can we get a dev to acknowledge some of these ideas.

[krimsonrane]

I just did what everyone else does and skipped level 18-19 quests. Its a shame that 2 entire levels of quests might as well not exist.

[Oxarhamar]

I just did what everyone else does and skipped level 18-19 quests. Its a shame that 2 entire levels of quests might as well not exist.

Yeah they could use a bump