Real Hardcore

[jskinner937]

Is hardcore really hardcore? I mean lag aside, it’s really not too difficult if you are careful to achieve any of the rewards. Not to mention being able to buy tomes, beholder crystals, pots, etc kind of dilute the challenge in my opinion.

I have a suggestion….

Make HCL pay to play each season. Maybe VIPs can get first entry free. Charge a small entry fee of $5 or $10 to play. If you want to dual box, then you will have to pay for that second account.

If you die, you are done. No reroll. I would say that your season should end at that point, but it’s kind of hard to prevent someone from rolling a new account. So you should pay again for another life.

Create a new server for HCL. The entry fees can be used to fund this.

Turn off all purchases from the store aside from cosmetics.

Make rewards different each season.

Make all players able to open any difficulty on first run.

[Artos_Fabril]

Tell me you don't want anyone playing HCL without telling me you don't want anyone playing HCL.


Make HCL pay to play each season. Maybe VIPs can get first entry free. Charge a small entry fee of $5 or $10 to play. If you want to dual box, then you will have to pay for that second account.

If you die, you are done. No reroll. I would say that your season should end at that point, but it’s kind of hard to prevent someone from rolling a new account. So you should pay again for another life.

Create a new server for HCL. The entry fees can be used to fund this.

Turn off all purchases from the store aside from cosmetics.

Make rewards different each season.

Make all players able to open any difficulty on first run.

[Halciet]

Personally would rather see permadeath gone but have r10 be the only difficulty allowed: if we are worried about people having an "easy mode" through the objectives.

Or just change permadeath to occur when you release if adamant about keeping it.

[Antheal]

Make HCL pay to play each season. Maybe VIPs can get first entry free. Charge a small entry fee of $5 or $10 to play. If you want to dual box, then you will have to pay for that second account.

If you die, you are done. No reroll. I would say that your season should end at that point, but it’s kind of hard to prevent someone from rolling a new account. So you should pay again for another life.

Hahahahahahaha.

Oh wait, you're serious?

Hahahahahahahaha!

[Loriega]

We play because we can group with people and gear matters.
HC adds meaning, not challenge.
Meaning is what makes a game fun and involving.

On SC you don't have meaning, just the eternal hamster wheel.

HC is like the knights tournament, where everyone brings out their best they gathered on SC servers and showcases that on HC.
It also enforces group play. Ridiculous ideas like the OP's will not get people playing.

Of course people use 2nd and 3rd and maybe even more alt accounts. If that's fun for them, who cares?
We've seen in HC4 what increased difficulty does, it reduces the amount of people to play with.

This season has been great so far. See HC like a feast, like woodstock or w/e, love parade. People get together, have some fun and in 2 months it's over.

[Memnir]

I have a suggestion….
Personally would rather see...

Or just change...Nah.

[sturmbb]

We play because we can group with people and gear matters.
HC adds meaning, not challenge.
Meaning is what makes a game fun and involving.

On SC you don't have meaning, just the eternal hamster wheel.

HC is like the knights tournament, where everyone brings out their best they gathered on SC servers and showcases that on HC.
It also enforces group play. Ridiculous ideas like the OP's will not get people playing.

Of course people use 2nd and 3rd and maybe even more alt accounts. If that's fun for them, who cares?
We've seen in HC4 what increased difficulty does, it reduces the amount of people to play with.

This season has been great so far. See HC like a feast, like woodstock or w/e, love parade. People get together, have some fun and in 2 months it's over.

This is the main reason i play. The rewards are nice, but the main draw for playing HC for me is the grouping aspect and how people play as a team also the server being populated is another plus. Filling an LFM within 5 minutes of posting it is what really makes me enjoy HC as well and than all working as a group to make sure we all succeed and nobody dies. The True DnD way :)

Making suggestions about disabling the store would be detrimental to the server. SSG still have to make money to run the game, so by stopping people buying items from the store, would impact negatively on the game.

[kmoustakas]

Your version of fixing the only server with people in it is remove all the people.

Sounds great

[Logicman69]

Hardcore definitively feels easier this time around. Without the minics ready to jump out of every chest, and those **** super-champions that can one shot you, its a little more of a relaxing ride. I think they needed that with this being a short season and the rewards are repeats.

[minorpenthes]

Is hardcore really hardcore? I mean lag aside, it’s really not too difficult if you are careful to achieve any of the rewards. Not to mention being able to buy tomes, beholder crystals, pots, etc kind of dilute the challenge in my opinion.

I have a suggestion….

Make HCL pay to play each season. Maybe VIPs can get first entry free. Charge a small entry fee of $5 or $10 to play. If you want to dual box, then you will have to pay for that second account.

If you die, you are done. No reroll. I would say that your season should end at that point, but it’s kind of hard to prevent someone from rolling a new account. So you should pay again for another life.

Create a new server for HCL. The entry fees can be used to fund this.

Turn off all purchases from the store aside from cosmetics.

Make rewards different each season.

Make all players able to open any difficulty on first run.

But apparently other people had to tell you it was a terrible idea. So, allow me to add my voice to the chorus:

This is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea.

[Annex]

I find the current Hardcore League plenty time consuming, plenty difficult, and plenty stressful. The highest tier rewards are completely out of reach. Considering the constant and rapid feed of player character deaths during the current Hardcore League, I suspect a significant number of people share my feelings.

[Careall]

Is hardcore really hardcore? I mean lag aside, it’s really not too difficult if you are careful to achieve any of the rewards. Not to mention being able to buy tomes, beholder crystals, pots, etc kind of dilute the challenge in my opinion.

I have a suggestion….

Make HCL pay to play each season. Maybe VIPs can get first entry free. Charge a small entry fee of $5 or $10 to play. If you want to dual box, then you will have to pay for that second account.

If you die, you are done. No reroll. I would say that your season should end at that point, but it’s kind of hard to prevent someone from rolling a new account. So you should pay again for another life.

Create a new server for HCL. The entry fees can be used to fund this.

Turn off all purchases from the store aside from cosmetics.

Make rewards different each season.

Make all players able to open any difficulty on first run.

I'm going to take a stab at guessing what you really want, and that might be "skin in the game." You lose a toon, you reroll, and start again. You lose some time, you might lose some loot and even a few daily dice rolls, but the "pain" is minimal at best. I think you want to add a buy-in fee so that folks aren't playing a friendly game of poker, the game is at the high-stakes table. Am I close?

If I've got that right, I can agree with making each loss a little more painful, but I think either this is not the right approach or maybe it's a suggestion ahead of its time. Certainly, reducing the HC League time to only two months makes the loss of time more significant as there's less time to recover. Another example, not one I am suggesting - it's only an example of a suggestion, might be something along the lines of you can transfer a toon with at least one Past Life from a regular server to play on the HC server. The toon starts fresh at level 1, no past lives, and any gear is deleted (don't transfer the toon with gear on or in a personal bank). If the toon dies, it not only stays in the land of lost souls but can't be transferred to another server later. If the toon is still alive at the end of the HC season, then the toon can transfer for free to any server.

Anyway, that's a little less of a deterrent to people playing HC but far from perfect. It does show that if you think it through, you might be able to come up with a better suggestion to create the high-stakes poker table idea you might be looking for.

[minorpenthes]

I'm going to take a stab at guessing what you really want, and that might be "skin in the game." You lose a toon, you reroll, and start again. You lose some time, you might lose some loot and even a few daily dice rolls, but the "pain" is minimal at best. I think you want to add a buy-in fee so that folks aren't playing a friendly game of poker, the game is at the high-stakes table. Am I close?

If I've got that right, I can agree with making each loss a little more painful, but I think either this is not the right approach or maybe it's a suggestion ahead of its time. Certainly, reducing the HC League time to only two months makes the loss of time more significant as there's less time to recover. Another example, not one I am suggesting - it's only an example of a suggestion, might be something along the lines of you can transfer a toon with at least one Past Life from a regular server to play on the HC server. The toon starts fresh at level 1, no past lives, and any gear is deleted (don't transfer the toon with gear on or in a personal bank). If the toon dies, it not only stays in the land of lost souls but can't be transferred to another server later. If the toon is still alive at the end of the HC season, then the toon can transfer for free to any server.

Anyway, that's a little less of a deterrent to people playing HC but far from perfect. It does show that if you think it through, you might be able to come up with a better suggestion to create the high-stakes poker table idea you might be looking for.

No. A large part of the attraction of HC is that it is a level playing field, in a sense.

Obviously, it is not, because there are always purchasable aspects that introduce an element of "pay to win".

But essentially, everyone starts with the rags on their back, and their first (and "only") life.

No gear from years of grinding (including tomes), and the triple completionist, iconic, etc. bonuses that make some people "more equal than others".

Essentially, as much as possible, HC makes us "all equal in birth, and all equal in death". The fact that some people will thrive, and be able to achieve the various goals is a sign that for whatever reason they are "good" players, and is precisely what makes the season so exciting.

Your version would become a matter of people importing their best character (or maybe an alt that is still pretty good) so as to already have access to bonuses and reaper points, and thus would be inherently unequal.

Your idea would completely destroy what makes HC so interesting and exciting.

[jskinner937]

No. A large part of the attraction of HC is that it is a level playing field, in a sense.

Obviously, it is not, because there are always purchasable aspects that introduce an element of "pay to win".

But essentially, everyone starts with the rags on their back, and their first (and "only") life.

No gear from years of grinding (including tomes), and the triple completionist, iconic, etc. bonuses that make some people "more equal than others".

Essentially, as much as possible, HC makes us "all equal in birth, and all equal in death". The fact that some people will thrive, and be able to achieve the various goals is a sign that for whatever reason they are "good" players, and is precisely what makes the season so exciting.

Your version would become a matter of people importing their best character (or maybe an alt that is still pretty good) so as to already have access to bonuses and reaper points, and thus would be inherently unequal.

Your idea would completely destroy what makes HC so interesting and exciting.

Aside from my or this other suggestion, HCL is more P2W than any other server. Is it really an achievment to gold roll your way to 20? Is it really an acheivement to be able to buy +8 supreme tomes? Is it really an achievement to face beholders with a store bought anti-beholder crystal or 2 in your inventory? Honestly, not everyone uses the DDO store, and the level of challenge to get favor is certainly there if you do not utilize the store, but most do. I suggested an entry fee and turning off the store so that it truly is an equalized chance for everyone participating. I do feel like those the reward of non-coiners earning 5k favor is certainly diluted by a whale for example. Hardcore to me is fun in theory but in the spirit of a true hardcore or permadeath league, your odds should not be significantly favored by your spend, which it is.

[minorpenthes]

Aside from my or this other suggestion, HCL is more P2W than any other server. Is it really an achievment to gold roll your way to 20? Is it really an acheivement to be able to buy +8 supreme tomes? Is it really an achievement to face beholders with a store bought anti-beholder crystal or 2 in your inventory? Honestly, not everyone uses the DDO store, and the level of challenge to get favor is certainly there if you do not utilize the store, but most do. I suggested an entry fee and turning off the store so that it truly is an equalized chance for everyone participating. I do feel like those the reward of non-coiners earning 5k favor is certainly diluted by a whale for example. Hardcore to me is fun in theory but in the spirit of a true hardcore or permadeath league, your odds should not be significantly favored by your spend, which it is.

I would not know, because I don't buy anything from the store.

If you are, you should try not doing so. Maybe you would enjoy the game a bit more.

Seriously, the only things I have seen people purchasing are guild ships and amenities, so that literally thousands of others can enjoy the same benefits.

[Careall]

Yes. People buy their wins. That doesn't mean you lose, though. I mean, other than maybe not appearing higher on the leaderboard, there's nothing they get that prevents you from earning or achieving your goals. If it was some zero-sum game where someone has to lose in order for others to win (of course, the leaderboards are), then your points are valid. For the most part, other than leaderboards, your "winning" has little to do with how well someone else does - unless you're grouping with them and maybe receiving some indirect benefits from their purchases.

[fatherpirate]

Well, I guess you could do that but why stop there?
Any character that dies on any server should lock that
player from ever playing on that server again.
right? Great business model !

[jskinner937]

I would not know, because I don't buy anything from the store.

If you are, you should try not doing so. Maybe you would enjoy the game a bit more.

Seriously, the only things I have seen people purchasing are guild ships and amenities, so that literally thousands of others can enjoy the same benefits.

I have not seen the same. I run invaders and everyone flashes anti-beholder crystals. I asked about stat comaparison and almost always someone has higher stats without a lucky or bought tome. HCL is a competition in the end. Many will be happy just achieving 5k favor or whatever but there is a leaderboard and a hall of fame. Store purchases that give significant game advantages are unfair as everyone that participates hasn’t the resources to spend. And many more choose not to. I am just saying if you made a spot on the leaderboard without spending a dime, that’s an achievement. As I said it sort of dilutes the point of even having a competition.

Heck look at the thread about cookies? And they are a much smaller advantage than +8 tomes of supreme abilities. Maybe if you could only use the points you earn as favor it would be fair. Or remove tomes from the store on HCL.

[Oxarhamar]

I have not seen the same. I run invaders and everyone flashes anti-beholder crystals. I asked about stat comaparison and almost always someone has higher stats without a lucky or bought tome. HCL is a competition in the end. Many will be happy just achieving 5k favor or whatever but there is a leaderboard and a hall of fame. Store purchases that give significant game advantages are unfair as everyone that participates hasn’t the resources to spend. And many more choose not to. I am just saying if you made a spot on the leaderboard without spending a dime, that’s an achievement. As I said it sort of dilutes the point of even having a competition.

Heck look at the thread about cookies? And they are a much smaller advantage than +8 tomes of supreme abilities. Maybe if you could only use the points you earn as favor it would be fair. Or remove tomes from the store on HCL.

If you don't want to use the store don't

However I am cool with whatever purchase players want to make in the store on HC not all points come free & I like to see the game supported

If there is no way for players to support the game other than subscription then what is the point of HCL remember this is a business model & subscription only HC was already tried and abandoned

Yes getting on the leaderboards without spending points is an achievement Go For It if that's your goal no need to impose that rule on others