Arty and doubleshot WAI?

[Strider1963]

I have a level 8 Arty with 14% doubleshot and I shot volley after volley of bolts into the training dummy for 2 minutes and not once did I see more than 3 bolts hit the dummy in 1 volley. Is this right? In 2 minutes I should have gotten at least a few doubleshots in there. Anyone else out there ever test this?

[Abilbo]

I have a level 8 Arty with 14% doubleshot and I shot volley after volley of bolts into the training dummy for 2 minutes and not once did I see more than 3 bolts hit the dummy in 1 volley. Is this right? In 2 minutes I should have gotten at least a few doubleshots in there. Anyone else out there ever test this?

If you are using a Repeater, then you are out of luck. Repeaters are supposed to have a 1/3 penalty on Doubleshot, so your 14% would really be about 9%, meaning that almost 1 in 10 shots should double shot, but it doesn't. The repeater penalty is much higher and I think it is only supposed to work on the first bolt shot. but you just don't see it working.

I have a triple everything completionist, who got that way being an arti, using a repeater. Doubleshot has always been a thing that just doesn't work well with repeaters, as i almost never see doubleshot. With that being said, using a repeater in heroics is better than inquisitive until level 12, when you will pick up tier 5 enhancements.

[Redtalktree]

I have a level 8 Arty with 14% doubleshot and I shot volley after volley of bolts into the training dummy for 2 minutes and not once did I see more than 3 bolts hit the dummy in 1 volley. Is this right? In 2 minutes I should have gotten at least a few doubleshots in there. Anyone else out there ever test this?



FRom DDOWiki

Update 49 changes:

Prior to this change, Doublestrike gave you a chance to make multiple attacks. Now it gives you the change to do extra damage with a single attack. (This change was made to reduce server lag.)
The exceptions to this rule are Repeating Crossbows and the Inquisitive Dual Crossbows style. They still fire 3 or 2 full projectiles (so you'll still see 3 numbers or 2 numbers, respectively). However, they still have Doubleshot penalties of 66% and 50%, respectively.

as far as i know they didnt reverse the DB penalty on Arty

[Strider1963]

If you are using a Repeater, then you are out of luck. Repeaters are supposed to have a 1/3 penalty on Doubleshot, so your 14% would really be about 9%, meaning that almost 1 in 10 shots should double shot, but it doesn't. The repeater penalty is much higher and I think it is only supposed to work on the first bolt shot. but you just don't see it working.

I have a triple everything completionist, who got that way being an arti, using a repeater. Doubleshot has always been a thing that just doesn't work well with repeaters, as i almost never see doubleshot. With that being said, using a repeater in heroics is better than inquisitive until level 12, when you will pick up tier 5 enhancements.

Thanks for the reply. So basically, is there any point at all in building up your doubleshot as a repeater using Arty? If doubleshot is only supposed to proc on the first bolt, then fine, but it still should proc 1 out of so many volleys depending on your doubleshot chance. If you have 100% doubleshot chance, you wouldnt get a doubleshot proc on every volley? Thats crazy and needs to be fixed. If it doesnt show that 4 bolts are hitting the training dummy once in a while, then its simply not working at all.

[droid327]

Thanks for the reply. So basically, is there any point at all in building up your doubleshot as a repeater using Arty? If doubleshot is only supposed to proc on the first bolt, then fine, but it still should proc 1 out of so many volleys depending on your doubleshot chance. If you have 100% doubleshot chance, you wouldnt get a doubleshot proc on every volley? Thats crazy and needs to be fixed. If it doesnt show that 4 bolts are hitting the training dummy once in a while, then its simply not working at all.

Dshot no longer procs an additional bolt. What it does is double the damage on a bolt. So you won't get a fourth bolt, but you will get the extra damage. The fly over text will show you a little grey "multi arrow" icon to denote when you've double shot.

Dshot works for repeaters but with a 66% penalty. So if you have 60% dshot, it applies to every bolt, but only gives each one a 20% chance for double damage.

[Arkat]

Dshot no longer procs an additional bolt. What it does is double the damage on a bolt. So you won't get a fourth bolt, but you will get the extra damage. The fly over text will show you a little grey "multi arrow" icon to denote when you've double shot.

Dshot works for repeaters but with a 66% penalty. So if you have 60% dshot, it applies to every bolt, but only gives each one a 20% chance for double damage.

Yes

[Tlorrd]

so the end answer is yes ... you should build for doubleshot despite the penalty. if you attain 99% double shot ... thats 33% chance on each bolt. Thus each volley of 3 bolts you have 33% on each shot ... thus you will have roughly 70% doubleshot chance each volley. More damage is more damage.

Also having your doubleshot up that high is also beneficial so that if you switch to GXB for your endless fusilade ... you get that full amount while wielding the GXB.

Inquisitive penalty gives you roughly 75% chance for a doubleshot each "volley" assuming your doubleshot is 100%.

[Oxarhamar]

If you are using a Repeater, then you are out of luck. Repeaters are supposed to have a 1/3 penalty on Doubleshot, so your 14% would really be about 9%, meaning that almost 1 in 10 shots should double shot, but it doesn't. The repeater penalty is much higher and I think it is only supposed to work on the first bolt shot. but you just don't see it working.

I have a triple everything completionist, who got that way being an arti, using a repeater. Doubleshot has always been a thing that just doesn't work well with repeaters, as i almost never see doubleshot. With that being said, using a repeater in heroics is better than inquisitive until level 12, when you will pick up tier 5 enhancements.

Penalty is 1/3 doubleshot so 14% is about 4-5% dunno how DDO rounds that probably down is my guess

Doubleshot worked great with repeaters when there was no penalty you could constantly have 5 or 6 bolts in every volley (long before doubleshot was nerfed to just double damage)

[Oxarhamar]

so the end answer is yes ... you should build for doubleshot despite the penalty. if you attain 99% double shot ... thats 33% chance on each bolt. Thus each volley of 3 bolts you have 33% on each shot ... thus you will have roughly 70% doubleshot chance each volley. More damage is more damage.

Also having your doubleshot up that high is also beneficial so that if you switch to GXB for your endless fusilade ... you get that full amount while wielding the GXB.

Inquisitive penalty gives you roughly 75% chance for a doubleshot each "volley" assuming your doubleshot is 100%.

There really is no other option to build for instead which is what Repeater really needs is a trade off for the penalty

It should not be better to swap to GXB for fuselage that really only shows the problem with the whole thing

Basically build for doubleshot because you have no other option than to get 1/3 benefit from enhancements, items, gear sets, epic feats, epic past lives, filagees, reaper tree

[Strider1963]

Thanx for all the replys, greatly appreciate it. On my melees I can see the extra damage when a doublestrike procs (instead of actually doublestriking), but I never noticed the xtra damage when a doubleshot proc'd. Will have to keep my eyes open for it.

[Oxarhamar]

Thanx for all the replys, greatly appreciate it. On my melees I can see the extra damage when a doublestrike procs (instead of actually doublestriking), but I never noticed the xtra damage when a doubleshot proc'd. Will have to keep my eyes open for it.

There’s a little symbol that comes up in front of the damage too dunno what to call it but look out for that

[droid327]

if you attain 99% double shot ... thats 33% chance on each bolt. Thus each volley of 3 bolts you have 33% on each shot ... thus you will have roughly 70% doubleshot chance each volley. More damage is more damage.

Inquisitive penalty gives you roughly 75% chance for a doubleshot each "volley" assuming your doubleshot is 100%.

Your stats there are only partially complete. That's only for calculating the chance that at least one doubleshot occurs. But that doesnt properly model doubleshot

Take with a grain of salt, my-stats-are-rusty math to follow: So you have to take the chance that at least one doubleshot occurs 1-(0.66 * 0.66 * 0.66)=71% plus the chance that at least two doubleshots occur 0.33*[1-(0.66 * 0.66)]=19% plus the chance that exactly three doubleshots occur (0.33 * 0.33 * 0.33)=4%

Add those three values and you get 94, which means you will average .94 doubleshots per volley with 99% Doubleshot

The math works out pretty close to what I assume is the dev's intent here: to make Doubleshot add one additional shot per volley. It works out the same way for DXB with the 50% penalty too. However, and I love to bring this up: there's no real justification for making it one shot per volley instead of shot-per-shot, because DPS is DPS, and a multiplier is a multiplier no matter how many shots make it up per attack cycle. Dshot should boost every attack cycle by the same proportion, which means it should be 100% effect for all ranged weapons.

[Oxarhamar]

Your stats there are only partially complete. That's only for calculating the chance that at least one doubleshot occurs. But that doesnt properly model doubleshot

Take with a grain of salt, my-stats-are-rusty math to follow: So you have to take the chance that at least one doubleshot occurs 1-(0.66 * 0.66 * 0.66)=71% plus the chance that at least two doubleshots occur 0.33*[1-(0.66 * 0.66)]=19% plus the chance that exactly three doubleshots occur (0.33 * 0.33 * 0.33)=4%

Add those three values and you get 94, which means you will average .94 doubleshots per volley with 99% Doubleshot

The math works out pretty close to what I assume is the dev's intent here: to make Doubleshot add one additional shot per volley. It works out the same way for DXB with the 50% penalty too. However, and I love to bring this up: there's no real justification for making it one shot per volley instead of shot-per-shot, because DPS is DPS, and a multiplier is a multiplier no matter how many shots make it up per attack cycle. Dshot should boost every attack cycle by the same proportion, which means it should be 100% effect for all ranged weapons.

Indeed

[arcattaii]

You may refer to my thread in the Gameplay & Game Systems block:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/526952-My-thoughts-of-Repeating-Crossbows-and-Doubleshot?p=6463563#post6463563

You are lv8 now, the Repeater is still strong enough compare to other weapons. But it will eventually become garbage from mid-high level on:
Nearly NO base attack speed increase, NO critical profile enhancement, biggest Doubleshot penalty.