You did Good SSG, Real Good.

[Szling]

I have had a lot of harsh things to say about DDO's issues and the Devs in the past and I don't think one word of that was unjustified, but today I have something nice to say.

I started playing DDO in October 2019, When I first started playing the game I simply accepted that I would have a lot of work to do catching up to older players and that gearfarming was part of that. But after a while I started to have doubts about the gear I was farming, I noticed that the level 15 sharn gear I was farming was stronger than the evening-star gear 5 levels above it, but DDO is an old game, so Old it even has multiple loot systems lying around, so I wrote this off as a new gear vs old gear thing, on the assumption that there was one (or at least few)lines that divided those things. And then I started to compare Legendary Ravenloft gear to Legendary Sharn gear at the same level and saw that my ravenloft gear was outdone and outvalued by the Sharn stuff, and my worries deepened. By the time the lost gatekeepers dropped I was no longer willing to spend large amounts of time and effort praying to RNGesus for gearsets that would have value for less time than I spent obtaining them.

And I had a second problem no matter what I built I could not participate in epic and legendary content, I could join groups and watch other people run the quests and raids but I could not really contribute. At first I assumed I was building badly (and at first I was) but even once I reached the point where I could solo (nearly) any heroic content on Elite with ease and even a lot of R1 content, and then watched those same builds get destroyed but the first handful of trash mobs I ran into on Hard or sometimes even Normal difficulties once I passed level 20, it became clear to me that the only way I could ever hope to contribute was to spend more time repeatedly grinding out gear that would lose value and need to be replaced by further grinding than actually playing the game. So I began to approach epic levels with a "get in, get pastlife, get back to heroics where there are fun things" mentality.

But with update 50 all of that changed.

The Ravenloft gear I spent so much time farming has value again, there is no longer a shadow of inevitable doom hanging over my Sharn gear, the Chronoscope items I've been reflexivly feeding to any old Jewel for 2 years now, have begun to line to pockets of my mules. And thats just the beginning, the army of mule toons shall rise! There are so many old items that I want now that I regret feeding last time I looted one, and somehow that regret makes me happy. And now that my old items are good again I find I'm starting to care about the new ones again (or at least farming items I don't already have), I'm even making an effort to farm out the legendary bone figurine now despite not even caring enough to look up what items came in the lost gatekeepers at the time it dropped (although the quests were fun).

But it gets better; I can actually play Epic and Legendary content now! For the first time ever I actually had fun epic leveling! I contributed to every group I was in (although still far from being the mvp in most cases)and not once did I encounter a quest where I relied on others to carry me through. Sure the epic leveling system is not as great as the heroic one but I did not even notice while having so much fun actually running the content. And that crafting toon I worked on to replace concerns about heroic gearfarming is even crafting my Very spefic boots for my endgame set and a placeholder shard of power until I do get that bone figurine. I'm even creating and leasing Pug groups for endgame raids now. Everything is at least 302% better. And for the first time ever I'm planning out a dedicated endgame raiding build(including which gear I should farm for it). And all this with only 1 named item I did not already have before update 50 equipped (The Bloodsigil Ring, which I did farm out post-update50).

This game still has far more bugs and performance issues than can be excused by any stretch of the imagination and you still have a long way to go on that point before I can feel comfortable recommending this game to new players. But you have taken several VERY large steps in that direction with this update. And while the game already has more than enough content and I don't really have much interest in extra quests to lag through or extra trees full of abilities that I expect will fail to function half the time just like existing ones. Update 50 is worth $100 to me, so as soon as I'm done posting this I'm gonna go buy the "update 50 stuff".

And if anyone from SSG reads this please show it to the devs and to any corporate overlords that may be calling the shots over there, especially the following sentence:
The best way you can make money from me and players like me both now and in the future is to continue shifting more of your efforts to the QUALITY of the game rather than the QUANTITY of the game.

Thank you, thank you for update 50, and if you read this far thank you for your time.

[Ultinoob]

[...]
The best way you can make money from me and players like me both now and in the future is to continue shifting more of your efforts to the QUALITY of the game rather than the QUANTITY of the game.
[...]

/Signed.

Listen to this guy SSG!

[SuperNiCd]

What’s happened? Is it worth considering coming back?

Is the lag gone?

[Szling]

What’s happened? Is it worth considering coming back?

Is the lag gone?

No not much has changed when it comes to bugs and performance issues but they removed several years of power creep and fixed a lot of the problems with loot and gearing. So depends why you left I guess.

[AbyssalMage]

<snip>
You do realize they "balanced" gear so they could resell it back to you from level 31 to 40? And when they launch level 40 (level 39 gear most likely) the gear will spiral upward with each release before they once again raise the level cap (to level 50). I too was naive but DDO is a business and they find the easiest ways to separate you from your money. This was simply a "Bait and switch" which they have done multiple times throughout the years when releasing content.

Although I am not sure why I am smashing your happiness. That is my bad. Maybe?

[SerPounce]

You do realize they "balanced" gear so they could resell it back to you from level 31 to 40? And when they launch level 40 (level 39 gear most likely) the gear will spiral upward with each release before they once again raise the level cap (to level 50). I too was naive but DDO is a business and they find the easiest ways to separate you from your money. This was simply a "Bait and switch" which they have done multiple times throughout the years when releasing content.

Although I am not sure why I am smashing your happiness. That is my bad. Maybe?

Probably, but if/when that's what they do then I'll complain then. I'm not going to complain that they made things better right now.

I also think there's a chance they're going to be less aggressive with the power creep this time.


SuperNiCd
What’s happened? Is it worth considering coming back?

Is the lag gone?

Depends what your baseline is. There haven't been any new super-lag zones like DoJ or thunderholme, but you still get the usual bits of lag in quests. Maybe some of the recent changes have helped a bit, but it's not "night & day."

[Chai]

OP, do you feel the Ravenloft gear has value again after it was changed to artifact set bonus, or because it was changed back to profane set bonus? What made it have value again and why?

[Lynnabel]

You do realize they "balanced" gear so they could resell it back to you from level 31 to 40? And when they launch level 40 (level 39 gear most likely) the gear will spiral upward with each release before they once again raise the level cap (to level 50). I too was naive but DDO is a business and they find the easiest ways to separate you from your money. This was simply a "Bait and switch" which they have done multiple times throughout the years when releasing content.

Although I am not sure why I am smashing your happiness. That is my bad. Maybe?

If we start putting level 52 gear in level 30 dungeons again something has gone terribly wrong.

Why would we go through all this effort to cut out power creep and then turn around and add it back in? Sounds like a really bad idea to me :P

[donblas]

From AbyssalMage "And when they launch level 40 (level 39 gear most likely) the gear will spiral upward with each release"


If we start putting level 52 gear in level 30 dungeons again something has gone terribly wrong.

Why would we go through all this effort to cut out power creep and then turn around and add it back in? Sounds like a really bad idea to me :P

+1

I think some players mistake progression (getting stronger as one levels and thus tackles higher level content) - for power creep (where the game gives characters at the same level more power over time, thus making content at that level trivial).

The first is necessary, the latter is a disaster.

The person to whom you were replying seems to think that providing more powerful stuff at higher levels is the latter, when it's actually the former.

[SerPounce]

+1

I think some players mistake progression (getting stronger as one levels and thus tackles higher level content) - for power creep (where the game gives characters at the same level more power over time, thus making content at that level trivial).

The first is necessary, the latter is a disaster.

The person to whom you were replying seems to think that providing more powerful stuff at higher levels is the latter, when it's actually the former.

If you're talking existing levels sure, but if they raise the level cap and add new more powerful stuff with it I'd still call that endgame powercreep. It's certainly functionally the same thing for anyone at cap when all your old gear becomes garbage.

[Jerevth]

It could be that they saw a pattern in the development that did exist for a while. (Buy this pack, get this gear and be uber*!

I'm hopeful though, that the huge jumps in power creep are a thing of the past- a new expansions/ packs/ enhancement tree should drive sales based on more than temporary uberness (followed by nerfs). Feywild and Saltmarsh did that relatively well. Devs outlined the milestones of power at x level, trying to avoid any best in slot items (I think we should have a couple near that title for each class/hybrid but... baby steps.)

HW definitely did not release as OP (though it fell short, in my humble opinion). One more balanced EH tree and I'll remove my sig for something else less salty.

Lyn has done amazing things fixing annoying issues- toggles being one of those (Fix in next patch!)- as well as working their darnedest to make respectable gear.
If SSG has an MVP it's Lynn for their posts, willingness to preview and listen to candid, constructive feedback and endure the slings and arrows of trolls and salty forumites alike.

*for a limited time, only, then pay tribute to the nerf hammer.

[Vorachtin]

If we start putting level 52 gear in level 30 dungeons again something has gone terribly wrong.

Why would we go through all this effort to cut out power creep and then turn around and add it back in? Sounds like a really bad idea to me :P

More made up numbers in a made up world. I never pulled a level 52 piece of gear because it didnt exist!

[SuperNiCd]

No not much has changed when it comes to bugs and performance issues but they removed several years of power creep and fixed a lot of the problems with loot and gearing. So depends why you left I guess.

In no particular order:
- game performance (lag)
- excessive grind and the resulting inbalance of power levels
- p2w
- reaper mode ruining the D&D lore/theme, and essentially all but forcing that mode on the players rather than just fixing the power creep that made it necessary
- dwindling player base, likely due to the above

Sounds like there are some improvements. Maybe will check back at a later date and see if any more strides have been made. Thanks for the answer, anyway!

[Weemadarthur]

If you're talking existing levels sure, but if they raise the level cap and add new more powerful stuff with it I'd still call that endgame powercreep. It's certainly functionally the same thing for anyone at cap when all your old gear becomes garbage.

If power increases in line with the level increases that's to be expected (no-one wants to be level 35 using the same level 28-30 gear) and just progression. It wont become powercreep until the advancement in gear goes up faster than the increase in level (which is what happened with RL). Having +14 where the game is supposed to be +13 is ok for a BIS raid items but regular items should never have been at +19-22 at that same level.

In short I agree with what they have done but I am also keenly aware that they have only fixed a problem of their own making. I am atm far more concerned about U51 and what will happen then. The fact that for a lot of players U50 was not the net neutral balance that it was said to be has me increasingly worried that they could potentially drop the ball with the ED revamp. If it goes well I can see this being a great turning point for SSG however if they fumble it I can see it starting a downward spiral that will be very hard to ever recover from (sorry for the doom but it is just how I feel currently).

[SerPounce]

If power increases in line with the level increases that's to be expected (no-one wants to be level 35 using the same level 28-30 gear) and just progression. It wont become powercreep until the advancement in gear goes up faster than the increase in level (which is what happened with RL). Having +14 where the game is supposed to be +13 is ok for a BIS raid items but regular items should never have been at +19-22 at that same level.


I'm not going to argue definitions, but if all the old gear is suddenly useless at cap it's a distinction without a difference.

[Arctigis]

More made up numbers in a made up world. I never pulled a level 52 piece of gear because it didnt exist!

This. There was absolutely no need to do this, it was a vanity project. Numbers are just numbers.
It would've been easier, and made much more sense, to buff older 20-27 epic gear and move L28
and L29 gear around a bit. This would've also helped the transition from heroic into epic. Now we're
left with a bunch of edge cases, a million pieces of L29 loot and the R10 crowd steering the ship.

Just give out a 'warrior' or 'mage' gearset at L1 and have it scale with my level. That would be just
as boring and I wouldn't have to worry about getting it. Oh wait, then how would they sell chest
rerolls, OP filigree sets and exclusive upgrade materials in 'expansion packs'.

[bryanmeerkat]

I noticed today that they have failed to scale the set bonus . Which of you are doing a rebalance you shouldn't have level 15 sets giving better set bonus than level 20 items .

Just hope this gets addressed too

[Weemadarthur]

I'm not going to argue definitions, but if all the old gear is suddenly useless at cap it's a distinction without a difference.

But that's the point why would +14 gear at level 32 make +13 gear from level 28/29 useless? Now I agree that they could have just as easily made level 32 gear +22 instead of +21 at 28/29 for the same net effect but that would have added just the same level of powercreep regardless if that's what you want to call it. Now if you want to argue against the level cap increase I will be 100% with you as I really see no need for it now but if it does happen whether the bonus is +1 to 13 or 21 really makes no difference. It will still be +1.

[Hawkwier]

Good to see this OP.

I think U50 overall is working out pretty well, though there are several issues, some significant, that still need addressed. It was good to see the Devs response to things like legendary loot dropping in Saltmarsh, and as you testify, it seems that the objective in U50 is largely being met.

Whilst this is undoubtedly being done in order to pave the way for future progression and SSG revenue (and yes I do understand and sympathise with misgivings over what's just been lost being sold back to us at some point), if they have the mobs debuffs sorted in balance reasonably well, then, whilst I'm not over the moon about it, I have no big issues with SSG looking to turn the revenue taps on by raising the level cap.

So, it's nice to see this feedback and I hope you continue to enjoy the game.

For me, it's all about U51 and always has been. We'll see...

[losian2]

You do realize they "balanced" gear so they could resell it back to you from level 31 to 40? And when they launch level 40 (level 39 gear most likely) the gear will spiral upward with each release before they once again raise the level cap (to level 50). I too was naive but DDO is a business and they find the easiest ways to separate you from your money. This was simply a "Bait and switch" which they have done multiple times throughout the years when releasing content.

Although I am not sure why I am smashing your happiness. That is my bad. Maybe?

It positively amazes me how people don't understand this.

What's the difference in getting a +10 hat turned into a plus 5, scaling the game around plus, and ramping back up to 10.. versus keeping the 10 and instead getting a 20 with the next expansion? Do people really just have a hard-on for arbitrary numbers that much?

If the *relative* power is basically the same then they have room to develop without imploding the engine and having to start showing damage in Ks because you hit so hard. Fewer, smaller numbers are better. Having room to smoothly increment is good for design. It blows my mind people can be so worked up. They'd "sell you" the next pack either way - whether the cool item to get is a Flagrant codpiece of defense +5 or +50 doesn't matter to them. The point is, hypothetically, the engine and gameplay likely would completely implodes when all players are in +X gear because numbers and scaling, so there needs to be LOTS of room to scale that for years to come. Addressing that now is smart. Notice how often this happens? Neverwinter recently did level squish, WoW did it, etc. Endless number-focused inflation creates problems. DDO is trying to be more proactive about it.

[mgoldb2]

+1

I think some players mistake progression (getting stronger as one levels and thus tackles higher level content) - for power creep (where the game gives characters at the same level more power over time, thus making content at that level trivial).

The first is necessary, the latter is a disaster.

The person to whom you were replying seems to think that providing more powerful stuff at higher levels is the latter, when it's actually the former.

When it come down to it what we talking about is shifting end game to new content. When you shift to new end game content it require content with more powerful enemies and progression to deal with the new threat.

You saying there a difference between doing that with new levels and new equipment vs just with new equipment but I think what others arguing is there really not a real difference. Either way you making previous content trivial (if you playing with a char at higher level or with new end game equipment it has the same effect) and you adding a way to progress even if it just with equipment with bigger numbers on it.

Since DDO have been using the just equipment method for so long and now decided they wanted to increase level cap I actually agree something had to be done because it does not make sense to have multiple tiers of content at the same level when that level is not end game.

What I call solution one is what they went with a overall rebalance of existing equipment stats to what level 29 gear should be base on a smooth curve.

The second solution which is the one I would prefer but would of gotten equally as much hate on the forums and probably more work so I understand why they did not. This would of been too leave the equipment alone(or much smaller changes) but when the level cap went up change the levels of content and the min levels on the equipment.

Example
Ravenloft - Level 32 content (level 29 gear)
Sharm - level 34 content (level 31 gear)
Fey - Level 36 content (level 33 gear)

I not saying those are the right level or gear levels but an example of the kind of change I would of made

Of cores this would of gotten equally as much screaming from the forums about not being able to use gear they use to be able to use at level 30 until higher levels. I just prefer this because I not a fan of having so much content at low 30's when the level cap is in the mid 30's or higher. Also not sure it great to have soo many name items with level 29 min level if everyone going to want over 30 gear which will have a lot less options am assuming. There just so much new content possible to be made at one time.

[MistaMagic]

If we start putting level 52 gear in level 30 dungeons again something has gone terribly wrong.

Why would we go through all this effort to cut out power creep and then turn around and add it back in? Sounds like a really bad idea to me :P

What you are actualy saying is If you want more power then do the past lives to get as we ain't giving it to you any more, but then again that is what the dedicated players have been doing all the time

[Arctigis]

It positively amazes me how people don't understand this.


I don't think anybody doesn't understand it. Players can understand it and still not like it, that's allowed.



What's the difference in getting a +10 hat turned into a plus 5, scaling the game around plus, and ramping back up to 10.. versus keeping the 10 and instead getting a 20 with the next expansion?


If it's the same, then why bother? It's like telling someone who is losing weight to only have half a cake. Half a cake,
half the calories which means you can eat twice as much. It doesn't make sense. If SSG were worried about the
cliff at L29 there were two approaches to fix that. One of those had a very low risk of upsetting their existing very
small player base. They chose to do the other one.



Do people really just have a hard-on for arbitrary numbers that much?

Apparently yes.



If the *relative* power is basically the same then they have room to develop without imploding the engine and having to start showing damage in Ks because you hit so hard. Fewer, smaller numbers are better. Having room to smoothly increment is good for design. It blows my mind people can be so worked up. They'd "sell you" the next pack either way - whether the cool item to get is a Flagrant codpiece of defense +5 or +50 doesn't matter to them. The point is, hypothetically, the engine and gameplay likely would completely implodes when all players are in +X gear because numbers and scaling, so there needs to be LOTS of room to scale that for years to come. Addressing that now is smart. Notice how often this happens? Neverwinter recently did level squish, WoW did it, etc. Endless number-focused inflation creates problems. DDO is trying to be more proactive about it.

Is relative power basically the same though? it wasn't when I ran LTS. The problem I have is the
edge cases, which if previous DDO development is anything to go by, will remain moribund as
the devs move on to newer, shinier things. The rest is just supposition and opinion on your part -
you've no idea how the game engine works or what it can handle. If they'd moved RL to 28 , kept
Sharn/FW at 29, put Saltmarsh at 30 and boosted low to high epic gear to that curve, would you
have been unhappy? This would've helped those complaining that the transition to epic is too hard and
not upset players by nerfing their gear.

[Shavron]

If we start putting level 52 gear in level 30 dungeons again something has gone terribly wrong.

Why would we go through all this effort to cut out power creep and then turn around and add it back in? Sounds like a really bad idea to me :P

What you actually did was make the game more boring.
You didn't balance the game after the fact and the gear i spent alot of time became useless and many cases.

You took it upon your self to remove named items from end of chains "new ones" and left for chance so now i'm i my second life looking for a piece of gear doing the quest daily but that one i want.

You are pushing for an update no one asked for "maybe a few elites who hangs at legendary" and will make the grind in epics worse than ever before.

The only good thing is the epic crafting and updates to older gear.

Power creep?
In a game where i can buy a cake to rez me in the middle of a dungeon?

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

My input is something I've noticed since U50 went live - at least on Sarlona - the server population is way down - I've been TRing iconic lives and I solo/pug - I keep grouping with the same 20 people. I have not seen a new player, on sarlona at least, in years, but I usually would see large guilds doing lots of raids and etc - I haven't seen any of that. I feel like Sarlona is my private server sometimes because I run around and see no one - and this is in the Saltmarsh/Fey - the two newest areas.

I managed to find a group of people to run all the new salt stuff with but that was the result of my waiting a few days looking at LFMs. No other MMO I play has such a low player base or takes so long to queue for a group.

I personally think that the amount of nerfs, say what you want devs, rebalancing, re-tweaking, etc the truth is planning for a future that may not come by literally nuking all the gear, builds, classes, abilities, destinies in some sort of Machiavellian revamp may seem good on a financial analyst's power point presentation but it has only driven players away. I personally know people who stopped playing and will not return because of the spell caster changes. One of them being a whale of such magnitude I laugh at how unfortunate it is. Now my whale friend is spending on Fallout 76 a game which I mention often, not because its good, but because Fallout 76 really understands valuing VIPS.

If you sub and become a VIP in Fallout 76 you gain unlimited - yes unlimited - storage, which makes it 100% worth the money. Like DDO it is a game where you packrat a billion little things. DDO however has virtually no storage - even if you spend hundreds of real world dollars on storage you still wind up with very little. It is mental. A horrible horrible design and I'd wager probably the worst of DDO's microtransactions.

Here - name a reason why I keep my VIP active? I cannot think of one beyond the ridiculous things that get shut off if I unsub like character slots, my platinum limits, etc - FTP nonsense that is so outdated it makes this game feel old.

The FTP model has changed - I really wish the devs would take a look at other of the successful mmos and take some notes.

The nuke nerfs being the worst offenders - I have said this for the last ## years - NERFS KILL MMOS.

SWToR had a budget of $200 Million - Bioware could do no wrong - coming off the phenomenal success of Mass Effect and Dragon Age - they were poised to release the greatest MMO of all time - they had over 500 servers - EA being a vacuum that only cares about money, not players, bought Bioware and changed the SWToR timeline, missed a bunch of promised targets, gutted Bioware's creative dept reorganizing the company - SWToR launched and kept none of its original promises to the players and the skeleton crew in place after the EA take over then all left - the new devs hired did not understand the code that the OG team created, so many things were broke after even the slightest update - the SWToR expansions all missed their marks with some taking years to deliver things promised in 2011 - the game suffered too from massive nerfing and redesigning systems that were functioning and fun - It was a 5 year long NGE (quoting Sony's Star Wars Galaxies failure that I also quote often) until the SWToR unofficially died - that is all of the dedicated raiders and players left. What exists now is an EA candy machine full of all casual players - very similar to EA's Sims 3 and 4 - games they set up to operate with minuscule intervention left to generate profit by bilking whoever tries to play them.

I believed SSG was a different sort of company however I would wager money in Vegas they have a financial advisor who is not a gamer and is taking notes out of EA's playbooks for profit. This is horrible because EA has consistently for the last ## years been voted the worst of the worst corporations in the world with a notorious record of only caring about profit and not their employees nor their gaming fans.

I believe it is imperative for SSG to allow major all decisions about the game's future be made by a person who is required to
A. Play DDO
B. Be a dungeons & dragons superfan - and by superfan I mean be able to list in order Gygax's module releases and history, as well as the history of the D&D versions, and the present state of 5e the most successful ruleset of all time.

The Bottom Line
There is absolutely ZERO reason to revamp the existing Epic Destiny system from a game play perspective as an example because it is fun, it works well, the players have had it for 10 years, twists of fate and the epic completionist is one of the best reincarnation rewards - etc. ZERO reason to spend time, money, resources, that could be used to eliminate lag, create cross-server instance based LFM system, or create new content like Isle of Dread, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, Tomb of Horrors, Dungeonland etc

I am completely against the U51 change - and I feel like many others are too though they do not post about it here, they just stop playing - which is why my beloved home server of Sarlona is now a ghost town.

Our tumbleweeds have tumbleweeds.

[donblas]

I'm not going to argue definitions, but if all the old gear is suddenly useless at cap it's a distinction without a difference.

There isn't anything to argue. The definition is the definition

Progression is NOT power creep.

Getting level 1 stuff in level 1 quests, level 20 gear in level 20 quests, level 30 gear in level 30 quests, and level 35 gear in level 35 quests is progression.

If content comes out that provides gear in level 30 quests that's twice as good as existing level 30 gear, that's power creep.

Nothing to argue.

[Hawkwier]

My input is something I've noticed since U50 went live - at least on Sarlona - the server population is way down - I've been TRing iconic lives and I solo/pug - I keep grouping with the same 20 people. I have not seen a new player, on sarlona at least, in years, but I usually would see large guilds doing lots of raids and etc - I haven't seen any of that. I feel like Sarlona is my private server sometimes because I run around and see no one - and this is in the Saltmarsh/Fey - the two newest areas.

I managed to find a group of people to run all the new salt stuff with but that was the result of my waiting a few days looking at LFMs. No other MMO I play has such a low player base or takes so long to queue for a group.

I personally think that the amount of nerfs, say what you want devs, rebalancing, re-tweaking, etc the truth is planning for a future that may not come by literally nuking all the gear, builds, classes, abilities, destinies in some sort of Machiavellian revamp may seem good on a financial analyst's power point presentation but it has only driven players away. I personally know people who stopped playing and will not return because of the spell caster changes. One of them being a whale of such magnitude I laugh at how unfortunate it is. Now my whale friend is spending on Fallout 76 a game which I mention often, not because its good, but because Fallout 76 really understands valuing VIPS.

If you sub and become a VIP in Fallout 76 you gain unlimited - yes unlimited - storage, which makes it 100% worth the money. Like DDO it is a game where you packrat a billion little things. DDO however has virtually no storage - even if you spend hundreds of real world dollars on storage you still wind up with very little. It is mental. A horrible horrible design and I'd wager probably the worst of DDO's microtransactions.

Here - name a reason why I keep my VIP active? I cannot think of one beyond the ridiculous things that get shut off if I unsub like character slots, my platinum limits, etc - FTP nonsense that is so outdated it makes this game feel old.

The FTP model has changed - I really wish the devs would take a look at other of the successful mmos and take some notes.

The nuke nerfs being the worst offenders - I have said this for the last ## years - NERFS KILL MMOS.

SWToR had a budget of $200 Million - Bioware could do no wrong - coming off the phenomenal success of Mass Effect and Dragon Age - they were poised to release the greatest MMO of all time - they had over 500 servers - EA being a vacuum that only cares about money, not players, bought Bioware and changed the SWToR timeline, missed a bunch of promised targets, gutted Bioware's creative dept reorganizing the company - SWToR launched and kept none of its original promises to the players and the skeleton crew in place after the EA take over then all left - the new devs hired did not understand the code that the OG team created, so many things were broke after even the slightest update - the SWToR expansions all missed their marks with some taking years to deliver things promised in 2011 - the game suffered too from massive nerfing and redesigning systems that were functioning and fun - It was a 5 year long NGE (quoting Sony's Star Wars Galaxies failure that I also quote often) until the SWToR unofficially died - that is all of the dedicated raiders and players left. What exists now is an EA candy machine full of all casual players - very similar to EA's Sims 3 and 4 - games they set up to operate with minuscule intervention left to generate profit by bilking whoever tries to play them.

I believed SSG was a different sort of company however I would wager money in Vegas they have a financial advisor who is not a gamer and is taking notes out of EA's playbooks for profit. This is horrible because EA has consistently for the last ## years been voted the worst of the worst corporations in the world with a notorious record of only caring about profit and not their employees nor their gaming fans.

I believe it is imperative for SSG to allow major all decisions about the game's future be made by a person who is required to
A. Play DDO
B. Be a dungeons & dragons superfan - and by superfan I mean be able to list in order Gygax's module releases and history, as well as the history of the D&D versions, and the present state of 5e the most successful ruleset of all time.

The Bottom Line
There is absolutely ZERO reason to revamp the existing Epic Destiny system from a game play perspective as an example because it is fun, it works well, the players have had it for 10 years, twists of fate and the epic completionist is one of the best reincarnation rewards - etc. ZERO reason to spend time, money, resources, that could be used to eliminate lag, create cross-server instance based LFM system, or create new content like Isle of Dread, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, Tomb of Horrors, Dungeonland etc

I am completely against the U51 change - and I feel like many others are too though they do not post about it here, they just stop playing - which is why my beloved home server of Sarlona is now a ghost town.

Our tumbleweeds have tumbleweeds.

Gotta say I completely agree with the Bottom Line part of this especially.

I've been playing this game for well over 10 years now. It took me well over a year to get to the then cap at L20, but still I stuck at it. Played barb before during and after they nerfed cleaves Into the ground, in darkest times it was considered by many as the worst class in the game, but still I stuck at it. I took about 6 months out once to go play EVE for a bit, but then came back, and I always knew I was. I've never felt more alienated from the game, or on the brink of quitting for good, than now, and that is almost wholly down to the prospect of U51.

I too don't see any need whatsoever for the sweeping changes, when a few fixes would suffice, though am open to persuasion.

But make no mistake. I WILL need persuaded. If what is delivered is the mess that was proffered for early preview, then I'm done. I have hope SSG have listened, but unlike the U50 squish which I could get behind, I haven't yet seen a cogent rationale to support the U51 changes.

If you are going to break the game I love, you better have a bloody good reason for doing so, or my dummy will be well and truly spat, for good this time.

I have real worries, and am not playing or paying as a result, but cling to hope through these forums... They do say though, it's the hope that kills you. We'll see...

[Dilbon]

I'm really looking forward to U51 because I don't find the current ED system fun at all even though I have epic completionist. I don't like off-destiny leveling or having to change destiny to change a twist (or get it in the first place after fate points reset). Overall the system is just clumsy and unfun.

[donblas]

I'm really looking forward to U51 because I don't find the current ED system fun at all even though I have epic completionist. I don't like off-destiny leveling or having to change destiny to change a twist (or get it in the first place after fate points reset). Overall the system is just clumsy and unfun.

Totally agree. I dislike all of those things.

The U51 system seems simpler, more intuitive and more newby-friendly.

[Shavron]

My input is something I've noticed since U50 went live - at least on Sarlona - the server population is way down - I've been TRing iconic lives and I solo/pug - I keep grouping with the same 20 people. I have not seen a new player, on sarlona at least, in years, but I usually would see large guilds doing lots of raids and etc - I haven't seen any of that. I feel like Sarlona is my private server sometimes because I run around and see no one - and this is in the Saltmarsh/Fey - the two newest areas.

I managed to find a group of people to run all the new salt stuff with but that was the result of my waiting a few days looking at LFMs. No other MMO I play has such a low player base or takes so long to queue for a group.

I personally think that the amount of nerfs, say what you want devs, rebalancing, re-tweaking, etc the truth is planning for a future that may not come by literally nuking all the gear, builds, classes, abilities, destinies in some sort of Machiavellian revamp may seem good on a financial analyst's power point presentation but it has only driven players away. I personally know people who stopped playing and will not return because of the spell caster changes. One of them being a whale of such magnitude I laugh at how unfortunate it is. Now my whale friend is spending on Fallout 76 a game which I mention often, not because its good, but because Fallout 76 really understands valuing VIPS.

If you sub and become a VIP in Fallout 76 you gain unlimited - yes unlimited - storage, which makes it 100% worth the money. Like DDO it is a game where you packrat a billion little things. DDO however has virtually no storage - even if you spend hundreds of real world dollars on storage you still wind up with very little. It is mental. A horrible horrible design and I'd wager probably the worst of DDO's microtransactions.

Here - name a reason why I keep my VIP active? I cannot think of one beyond the ridiculous things that get shut off if I unsub like character slots, my platinum limits, etc - FTP nonsense that is so outdated it makes this game feel old.

The FTP model has changed - I really wish the devs would take a look at other of the successful mmos and take some notes.

The nuke nerfs being the worst offenders - I have said this for the last ## years - NERFS KILL MMOS.

SWToR had a budget of $200 Million - Bioware could do no wrong - coming off the phenomenal success of Mass Effect and Dragon Age - they were poised to release the greatest MMO of all time - they had over 500 servers - EA being a vacuum that only cares about money, not players, bought Bioware and changed the SWToR timeline, missed a bunch of promised targets, gutted Bioware's creative dept reorganizing the company - SWToR launched and kept none of its original promises to the players and the skeleton crew in place after the EA take over then all left - the new devs hired did not understand the code that the OG team created, so many things were broke after even the slightest update - the SWToR expansions all missed their marks with some taking years to deliver things promised in 2011 - the game suffered too from massive nerfing and redesigning systems that were functioning and fun - It was a 5 year long NGE (quoting Sony's Star Wars Galaxies failure that I also quote often) until the SWToR unofficially died - that is all of the dedicated raiders and players left. What exists now is an EA candy machine full of all casual players - very similar to EA's Sims 3 and 4 - games they set up to operate with minuscule intervention left to generate profit by bilking whoever tries to play them.

I believed SSG was a different sort of company however I would wager money in Vegas they have a financial advisor who is not a gamer and is taking notes out of EA's playbooks for profit. This is horrible because EA has consistently for the last ## years been voted the worst of the worst corporations in the world with a notorious record of only caring about profit and not their employees nor their gaming fans.

I believe it is imperative for SSG to allow major all decisions about the game's future be made by a person who is required to
A. Play DDO
B. Be a dungeons & dragons superfan - and by superfan I mean be able to list in order Gygax's module releases and history, as well as the history of the D&D versions, and the present state of 5e the most successful ruleset of all time.

The Bottom Line
There is absolutely ZERO reason to revamp the existing Epic Destiny system from a game play perspective as an example because it is fun, it works well, the players have had it for 10 years, twists of fate and the epic completionist is one of the best reincarnation rewards - etc. ZERO reason to spend time, money, resources, that could be used to eliminate lag, create cross-server instance based LFM system, or create new content like Isle of Dread, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, Tomb of Horrors, Dungeonland etc

I am completely against the U51 change - and I feel like many others are too though they do not post about it here, they just stop playing - which is why my beloved home server of Sarlona is now a ghost town.

Our tumbleweeds have tumbleweeds.

Please listen to this player.
He knows what is he talking about.

[Qlumsee]

I'm quite pleased this pass has been successful. I had my doubts, but after some playtime, I think it's about as spot on as anyone could hope for.

My main is currently a FvS nuker with heals and I was horrified about how much spellpower I lost in the pass, but after a few runs through the difficulty levels I found I was scoring most kills. Good for the ego and a personal sign that the pass has worked. My backstabber is also doing slightly better and my new HW build is also fun to run. My monk and pally are holding their own.

I'm also pleased about the myriad of loot options now open to me and feel the 14 bankbots I have are justified. In the case of my assassin, the Ring of Shadows is as relevant as any endgame loot out there.

Anyways, thanks Devs, although a little bit more warning time might have been better for my blood pressure.

[yfernbottom]

I'm really looking forward to U51 because I don't find the current ED system fun at all even though I have epic completionist. I don't like off-destiny leveling. Overall the system is just clumsy and unfun.

I agree with this. The current system is great once you have weathered through it. Being able to turn all those abilities on at level 20 is a huge, and much needed power boost. But for at least your first two lives it is an absolutely miserable slog watching your power levels jump all over the place (unless you hit the store of course . . .)

If the new system turns out to be another stealth nerf of casual players like the gear revamp, I am not going to be happy about it.

[Largely tangential, proceed at your own risk . . . ]

The way that the gear and mob changes turned out was neutral for martial characters, and yet another nerf to casters...but mainly those of casual player. Casters from the deeply invested multi life vets were barely affected, because the net effect of the gear nerf was that past lives became a larger proportion of overall character power. I can only assume the OP plays some kind of martial character, probably a melee.

I barely play casters so I guess I shouldn't care about the latest changes, but I consider the core strength of DDO build diversity. Anything that cuts down on the diversity of viable builds is bad for the game imo. If they suddenly gutted bards, alchemists or monks, all classes I have tried several times and simply don't enjoy, I would still be opposed to it.

A lot of players can't seem to see past whether their chosen playstyle is winning or not. By elevating one combat style at a time over all the others, they pit players that only care about one aspect of the game against each other. If you are getting ready to argue "Playstyle X needs to be stronger that every other competing option because of Y", I would say you are being shortsighted. Every time some class of builds get nerfed so hard that it's no longer really viable for most content at the difficulty levels that PuGs tend to play, we lose some players.

[Axeyu]

I'm really looking forward to U51 because I don't find the current ED system fun at all even though I have epic completionist. I don't like off-destiny leveling or having to change destiny to change a twist (or get it in the first place after fate points reset). Overall the system is just clumsy and unfun.

Same here. Even after a decade of adjustments and fixes the current system does not really fit the game. The new system will mirror the enhancement system, so the people who are sceptical I ask if they believe that the game would be better if you could access all enhancements trees and all action points at level 1. If not, why is such a system better for epics.

[SerPounce]

What you are actualy saying is If you want more power then do the past lives to get as we ain't giving it to you any more, but then again that is what the dedicated players have been doing all the time

Yeah, this is my one problem with the squish. It makes all the really grindy stuff (PLs/reaper points) even more comparatively valuable when it's already far too important compared to gear and build.


There isn't anything to argue. The definition is the definition

Progression is NOT power creep.

Getting level 1 stuff in level 1 quests, level 20 gear in level 20 quests, level 30 gear in level 30 quests, and level 35 gear in level 35 quests is progression.

If content comes out that provides gear in level 30 quests that's twice as good as existing level 30 gear, that's power creep.

Nothing to argue.

It's always interesting how set gamers get the definitions of various gaming neologisms. None of these things have definitive definitions. "Powercreep" doesn't appear in Webster's. But whatever, if there are new items introduced that are more powerful than any items currently in the game then *from a cap perspective* that amounts to the same thing regardless of level gaiting. Endgame characters will hit the new cap a few hours after release, so for practical purposes whether a new +20 INT item is ML0 or ML35 is irrelevant. All my +14 INT stuff is just as garbage.

Sure you can still use it as TR twink gear for a few levels if you want, and TR is a big part of the game, but endgame is still a thing.

[Axeyu]

Yeah, this is my one problem with the squish. It makes all the really grindy stuff (PLs/reaper points) even more comparatively valuable when it's already far too important compared to gear and build.


On the flipside it makes gear less important compared to build.

[mgoldb2]

Same here. Even after a decade of adjustments and fixes the current system does not really fit the game. The new system will mirror the enhancement system, so the people who are sceptical I ask if they believe that the game would be better if you could access all enhancements trees and all action points at level 1. If not, why is such a system better for epics.

If DDO gave you access to level 1-22 quests at level 1 and almost half of them was level 21-22 and it was normal to run those quests at level 1-3 then yes I would think it a good idea to give access to all enhancements at level 1.

In heroics it expected to run content close to your level. In epics the lines are very blurred between a level 20 quest and a level 32 quest. I mean if they wanted to change that also a case could be made for making it more like heroic enhancements but I not sure the content at certain epic level support that and on top of that it just going to slow down epic leveling and considering even with the new system a completionism going to have 20 more enhancement points to spend it would just hurt casual players more.

[Axeyu]

If DDO gave you access to level 1-22 quests at level 1 and almost half of them was level 21-22 and it was normal to run those quests at level 1-3 then yes I would think it a good idea to give access to all enhancements at level 1.

In heroics it expected to run content close to your level. In epics the lines are very blurred between a level 20 quest and a level 32 quest. I mean if they wanted to change that also a case could be made for making it more like heroic enhancements but I not sure the content at certain epic level support that and on top of that it just going to slow down epic leveling and considering even with the new system a completionism going to have 20 more enhancement points to spend it would just hurt casual players more.

People running level 30+ content at level 20 is indeed a symptom of the broken system and a reason to change it. I see no reason why the content at epic levels could not support that and why it is a problem is that epic leveling marginally slows down. There are multiple ways to speed up epic leveling that does not include removing character progression in a game about character progression.

[mgoldb2]

People running level 30+ content at level 20 is indeed a symptom of the broken system and a reason to change it. I see no reason why the content at epic levels could not support that and why it is a problem is that epic leveling marginally slows down. There are multiple ways to speed up epic leveling that does not include removing character progression in a game about character progression.

I personally think a progression system that you have to do the same thing 48 times and run the same content 48 times on a single char to get the max benefit from system broken but that not changing. Arguably having 48 past lives will be more beneficial in new system since in current system most build don't benefit from the last 3-4 fate points vs each enhancement point will probably be valuable.

Everyone different, for me and this includes heroics it don't feel like progression when I re-earning stuff I already did in a previously life. It more like when I reach level 12 I can finally play the char the way I design it too play. One of the reason I have very few heroic lives on my main.

Also I very much doubt it will effect most players epic leveling choices.

[erethizon]

If you sub and become a VIP in Fallout 76 you gain unlimited - yes unlimited - storage, which makes it 100% worth the money. Like DDO it is a game where you packrat a billion little things. DDO however has virtually no storage - even if you spend hundreds of real world dollars on storage you still wind up with very little. It is mental. A horrible horrible design and I'd wager probably the worst of DDO's microtransactions.


My goodness! Talk about game changing! I love that I can play this without a subscription and don't really want to be lured into being a VIP, but the ability to actually store everything, without a headache, on a single character? If anything could ever get me to become a VIP that would be it!

[yfernbottom]

My goodness! Talk about game changing! I love that I can play this without a subscription and don't really want to be lured into being a VIP, but the ability to actually store everything, without a headache, on a single character? If anything could ever get me to become a VIP that would be it!

If they gave us unlimited storage, especially if it could be organized the same way as the storage in LoTRO, I would sub every single time I am actively playing, and I already own 95% or more of DDO.

[Weemadarthur]

It's always interesting how set gamers get the definitions of various gaming neologisms. None of these things have definitive definitions. "Powercreep" doesn't appear in Webster's. But whatever, if there are new items introduced that are more powerful than any items currently in the game then *from a cap perspective* that amounts to the same thing regardless of level gaiting. Endgame characters will hit the new cap a few hours after release, so for practical purposes whether a new +20 INT item is ML0 or ML35 is irrelevant. All my +14 INT stuff is just as garbage.

Sure you can still use it as TR twink gear for a few levels if you want, and TR is a big part of the game, but endgame is still a thing.

But (again) a +15 item at 35 wont make a +14 item garbage. The +14 item will still be just as viable. It will make it slightly less powerful but not irrelevant like the gear jump at 28/29 did to all former loot before the stat squish. Unless you thought when the cap raised all gear was going to stay exactly the same I really don't see the point of your argument. They have now formalized the loot curve and as long as they stick to what they have said each new wave of loot should only ever be +1 (or +2 in the case of some special raid/artifact items) better than the previous version.

If they were to jump straight to +20 again with the next upgrade you would most certainly have a point. It has been stated though that this will not be the case (although I do see a point in respect to the people saying so are the exact same people who put the +20 loot in the game pre stat squish in the 1st place). Time will tell but gear gaining +1 bonuses every 4 levels should never invalidate the previous gear or make it useless. In short you would now in theory be able to still use gear from level 30 at level 40 and actually still be pretty much viable as the difference should only be +3 or 4.

Hence people arguing that there is a difference between powercreep and progression.

[donblas]

It's always interesting how set gamers get the definitions of various gaming neologisms. None of these things have definitive definitions. "Powercreep" doesn't appear in Webster's. But whatever, if there are new items introduced that are more powerful than any items currently in the game then *from a cap perspective* that amounts to the same thing regardless of level gaiting. Endgame characters will hit the new cap a few hours after release, so for practical purposes whether a new +20 INT item is ML0 or ML35 is irrelevant. All my +14 INT stuff is just as garbage.

.

Power creep does of course have a definition. The fact that "Websters" doesn't include one doesn't change that. One should indeed use the correct meaning of words.

Just because a limited set of characters (those at the cap) can use items of any level, doesn't mean that the ML of an item is irrelevant.

ML35 items are expected to be better than ML1 items. The fact that an item is ML35 is relevant - to any character that isn't lvl35, which I suspect is most of them.

If they made a ML0 +20 INT item THAT would be power creep. Making a ML35 INT item with a better INT value than a ML30 item is expected.

[LightBear]

If we start putting level 52 gear in level 30 dungeons again something has gone terribly wrong.

Why would we go through all this effort to cut out power creep and then turn around and add it back in? Sounds like a really bad idea to me :P

This is by far the worst answer I have ever seen handed out on this forum by a dev.
A lot of players take this matter very serious and mocking them in this matter is not favorable of the liaisons.

[Hawkwier]

This is by far the worst answer I have ever seen handed out on this forum by a dev.
A lot of players take this matter very serious and mocking them in this matter is not favorable of the liaisons.

FWIW I don't interpret Lynnabel's response as mocking. More light-hearted humour.

And where would we be without a sense of humour? That's right - Edinburgh. :)

Seriously though, I've on occasion seen stuff from Devs posted that I thought were over the line. This doesn't come close for me.

YMMV.

[Weemadarthur]

FWIW I don't interpret Lynnabel's response as mocking. More light-hearted humour.

And where would we be without a sense of humour? That's right - Edinburgh. :)

Seriously though, I've on occasion seen stuff from Devs posted that I thought were over the line. This doesn't come close for me.

YMMV.

I kind of read it as "do you really think we would be stupid enough to put +20 items back into the game after we just nerfed all your gear?"

It does kind of ask for the response of "well you did put them there in the 1st place!" :p

[Epicsoul]

This is by far the worst answer I have ever seen handed out on this forum by a dev.
A lot of players take this matter very serious and mocking them in this matter is not favorable of the liaisons.

This is by far a terrible interpretation and response. I would suggest examining your biased perception if this is your reaction to the dev's answer.

[LightBear]

I kind of read it as "do you really think we would be stupid enough to put +20 items back into the game after we just nerfed all your gear?"

It does kind of ask for the response of "well you did put them there in the 1st place!" :p

Taking the speed into account with we get new stuff and taking what Sev has said about it on top of that I doubt the level increase is going to happen any time soon.

The level increase will happen at some point and I doubt SSG will hand out new toys with sub-par numbers on them.

If you look at some of the Fey level 5 gear and hold some old gear next to it of the same level, then yeah... it's done before at other levels and history has a way of repeating itself.

[Arctigis]

Taking the speed into account with we get new stuff and taking what Sev has said about it on top of that I doubt the level increase is going to happen any time soon.

The level increase will happen at some point and I doubt SSG will hand out new toys with sub-par numbers on them.

If you look at some of the Fey level 5 gear and hold some old gear next to it of the same level, then yeah... it's done before at other levels and history has a way of repeating itself.

Of course. They'll do whatever is required to maximise revenue.

Severlin! I place you in charge of DDO. It's yours to squeeze, as I promised. I want you to squeeze and squeeze and squeeze! Give me $$!
Drive them. Drive them into utter submission! Do not show the slightest pity or mercy! Never stop. Go. Go! Show no mercy!

[Hobgoblin]

Of course. They'll do whatever is required to maximise revenue.

Severlin! I place you in charge of DDO. It's yours to squeeze, as I promised. I want you to squeeze and squeeze and squeeze! Give me $$!
Drive them. Drive them into utter submission! Do not show the slightest pity or mercy! Never stop. Go. Go! Show no mercy!

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61Zlta4wp6L._AC_SL1024_.jpg

[o2t4f]

I'm really looking forward to U51 because I don't find the current ED system fun at all even though I have epic completionist. I don't like off-destiny leveling or having to change destiny to change a twist (or get it in the first place after fate points reset). Overall the system is just clumsy and unfun.

You don't need to change destiny to change a twist. That would be terrible. Just click show all on your destiny abilities list and switch from there. The non-active ones will be greyed out. If that wasn't possible, Masquerade from Fatesinger (which allows switching twists at rest shrines) wouldn't make sense, since you can't change destinies at rest shrines.
So, just click show all and no more destiny switching for twists.